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Author Topic: Asteroids  (Read 5227 times)
Lucius
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« on: Jul 22, 2009, 09:30 PM »

Hi Rad - I'm wondering if you could elucidate briefly the asteroids within the context of the evolutionary paradigm - ?  

I came across a post wherein you stated, with regard to Joan of Arc's Pallas placement:
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Pallas is of course an asteroid that correlates, among other dynamics, to one's awareness or consciousness being 'seeded' from thoughts or ideas that come from Souls in higher planes of existence such as the Astral Plane

Did you mean this is what it means specifically to her soul in that lifetime - or does Pallas represent being 'seeded' for all souls - ?  If so, I've never heard anything even close to that interpretation!  If this is the archetype how/why does Pallas symbolize this - ?

Also, I was wondering about Vesta, Ceres, Lilith, including black moon lilith......I have not paid too much attention to asteriods because I haven't found anything to stimulate my need to understand it better & utilize it.  In reality those asteriods are prominent in my chart...maybe it's time to learn asteroids the EA way... Cool  Thanks if you're up to this....of course, maybe this is 'common' knowledge in EA & I missed it somewhere & some other folk can help me with them.....?

I was just looking at transits & I thought it was relevant that I asked about asteroids since Uranus is sitting right now on my lillith/vesta/pallas conjunction!.....never ceases to amaze me how accurate astrology is....anyway...thought you astro souls would enjoy that!  Looking forward to learning more about the asteroids....
« Last Edit: Jul 22, 2009, 10:19 PM by Lucius » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 24, 2009, 09:00 AM »

Hi Lucius,
 The best place to start in terms of gaining a fundamental understanding of the asteroids is the work of Demetra George. I just don't have the time to detail all the archetypal correlations/ manifestations of the various asteroids. So it would be best to study her work first. Then if you have additional questions about the asteroids it would be appropriate to post them here.
 Pallas does indeed correlate, among other correlations, to a consciousness/ Soul being 'seeded' by thoughts/ directions/ realization from 'on high', so to speak. 'On high' would of course correlate to entities / consciousnesses from other realms such as the astral realm. This was certainly the case with Joan of Arch. However being consciously aware of these seeded thoughts does correlate to levels of personal evolution that are beyond the consensus state in most cases. That does not mean that it does not happen in that state, but does mean that most in that state are not consciously aware of such seeding and/or simply ignore it because it's so far outside the 'mainstream'. Thus the internall or external judgments of being 'crazy', or 'your crazy' and the like.
  It may interest you to know that Wolf's own Pallas was at 19 Capricorn conjunct PLUTO ! And that both that Pluto and Pallas were of course ruled by his Saturn in Leo conjunct PLUTO in his 9th house. It is also squares his Neptune in the 11th. Let's remember that he shared with others the fact that all of the Pluto material , the very basis of Evolutionary Astrology that he pioneered, was put into him via dreams 'from on high'.
  Anyway, the asteroids do correlate with various aspects and dimensions within our consciousness that are very relevant to study and understand. The work of Demetra George is the very best place to start that studying and understanding.

 Rad



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Lucius
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 24, 2009, 10:13 AM »

Thank you Rad!

After I posted the question I remembered Wolf saying in the AZ school that asteroids correlated with the feminine specifically & his wife had done/was doing much work on it.  I also recalled a phone class KimMarie did on the asteroids & the general idea was that it was the inherent feminine before patriarchal conditioning - and the points in the chart could 'tell' that type of story of the soul.

I found the Pallas information practical & helpful in a direct way, thanks.  It's interesting that in her myth she 'springs' from her fathers head...makes sense that the correlate would be thoughts seeding from elsewhere.....

I'll look into D.George's book & see if I can locate my notes from the phone class....thanks again!

By the way - I hope you don't mind if I clarify something in your post Rad - some might scratch their heads about 19 capricorn....it's the north node of Pluto....and his natal pluto is in Leo/9th......(right?)
« Last Edit: Jul 24, 2009, 10:17 AM by Lucius » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 24, 2009, 10:17 AM »

Quote
Wolf's own Pallas was at 19 Capricorn conjunct PLUTO
you must have meant something else- what was it conjunct?
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Lucius
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 24, 2009, 10:19 AM »

You were posting while I decided to edit mine - I knew someone would ask! - it's pluto's node.... Smiley
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adina
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« Reply #5 on: Jul 24, 2009, 11:02 AM »

Wolf's Pallas is 19 Cap conjunct  the SOUTH node of Pluto... and yes, Pluto/Saturn in Leo in 9.  Smiley
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Lucius
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« Reply #6 on: Jul 24, 2009, 11:04 AM »

Well, I've been reading up again on Vesta...just some information on the internet.  I think I've repressed this stuff...at least the Vesta stuff. 

Anyway, it seems to me that in a way Vesta is a symbol of the actual patriarchal distortion itself.  It's clear to see when/how the natural archetype was distorted...for instance Vesta correlates with fire, sacred fire, one can see that this symbolizes transformation & purification...but, originally in the natural way of puification & transformation...and the vestals originally would, among other expressions, use sexuality as a form of transformation/purification for others, seekers.  It is interesting to see that in Roman times they were forced into celibacy & to neglect their bodies (sound familiar?) - and if they broke their vows they were buried alive in the 'field of wickedness" - UGH!  And, some guy named Pontifex Maximus 'looked' over them....just his name gives me the creeps!

So....just throwing that out there....I feel Vesta can correlate with the natural pain/anguish/distortion with the patriarchal transition...and the need to call on her specific natural abilities - transformation/purification....does this make sense?  Anyone else have thoughts - ??   Smiley
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Lucius
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« Reply #7 on: Jul 24, 2009, 11:57 AM »

Actually, now that I'm revisited the lillith archetype, that too shows fairly graphically/specifically the patriarchal distortion.

First, that image of lillith (3,000 bce) on, a lion, I think, with wings, & taloned feet is Inanna in her aspect of 'queen of great above & below' - goddess of sky,earth & underworld...with the owl images also associated with lillith.  Then, we have mr. so-called hero gilgamesh chopping down Inannas tree (beginnings of patriarchal distortions) - here's a quote from the ancient poem:
Gilgamesh struck the serpent who could not be charmed.
the anzu-bird flew with his young to the mountains;
And lilith smashed her home and fled to the wild, uninhabited places.

Then, you get the apocryphal writings of lilith being the first wife of Adam, etc.  So - just adding that to these symbols showing the transition & being keys to the original expression & our own souls within those ancient lives.......
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adina
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 24, 2009, 12:05 PM »

Lucius, Lia has done some terrific work with the Lilith archetype/asteroid in the form of the triple goddess, i.e., Lilith, Black Moon Lilith and Dark Moon Lilith. I hope she'll be able to pop in here soon and add some of her findings.  If I remember correctly, Kristin gave an excellent lecture on the original archetype at the Vancouver EA Conference. (by that I mean if I remember the correct PLACE she did the lecture). Smiley  So maybe she'll check in with her work as well! 
« Last Edit: Jul 24, 2009, 12:08 PM by adina » Logged
Lucius
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 24, 2009, 12:19 PM »

Thanks Adina.  It gets confusing about the different liliths - from what I've read the black moon is also sometimes called dark moon but is the same thing...and then there is the actual asteroid lilith......?
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adina
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 24, 2009, 12:38 PM »

There IS an actual asteroid Lilith, and the Black Moon and Dark Moon Liliths are two different entities. Demetra George refers to the trio as the three faces of Lilith in her book, Finding our Way Through the Dark: The Astrology of the Dark Goddess Mysteries. She covers more dark goddess energies, like Moira, the Furies, etc. And the book includes background and a workbook so you can work with all these energies in your chart.

I have a small book called, The Black Moon Book that has an ephemeris and interpretation by Lee A. Suyterman, with background on the Dark Goddess Lilith by George. I used to have a book on the Dark Moon, which gave instructions on how to locate it in your chart, but I seem to have lost it in my many moves over the years. Darn!

Here are some basics in chart analysis from George's book, Finding our way thru the Dark:

"The asteriod Lilith shows how and where we experience the themes of suppression, resentment, explosive anger, rejection, and flight in our lives. She also indicates the ways in which we need to assert our own truths."  (I think this is the one that wolf said indicates where our WOUND originated.)

"The Dark Moon Lilith signifies how and where we experience the distorted aspects of Lilith in our lives--her anguish, bitterness betrayal, alienation, fear and hatred of sexuality, and revenge."

"The Black Moon Lilith shows how and where we cut away our pretensions, false roles, and delusions and actualize who we essentially are."  This is the 'resolution' lilith in EA, and while I remember that Kristin had a great phrase that really described the ACTION of Black Moon Lilith, I can't for the life of me remember what it is at the moment. 

Hope this helps and little and that Lia and Kristin will chime in here, too.









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Kristin
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 26, 2009, 10:39 AM »

Hi Adina etal,

Here are some thoughts to add to the great subject of Lilith.

The true and NATURAL expression of Lilith is that of pure, raw, feminine beauty. A woman that would chose freedom over just about anything.
She is Pluto  and She is also Mars.
She was honored and praised for initiating and fully expressing her personal freedom and sexual passion.

“In her original state, she is a symbol of true feminine power- complete unto herself and embodying her own brand of feminine self containment, assertion and wholeness.” (O’donnell)

The Asteroid Lilith (4-5 years) describes the original Lilith.  We have all ‘imprinted’ in us the original, undistorted, female image, which is defined by the natal placement of an individual’s asteroid Lilith.  Where we feel free to move, act and speak our truth. This correlates in the current life to what our underlying ideal image is of a woman.

note: I remember Wolf saying that Wherever the original Lilith shows up in a MAN'S CHART REFLECTS HIS IDEAL IMAGE OF A WOMAN -

If the energy is blocked, the asteroid shows where we experience the themes of suppression, resentment, anger and flight in our lives.

For centuries men and women have been conditioned by our patriarchal culture to suppress this feminine strength which has resulted in bitterness and resentment, inevitably leading to distortion and rage.  How this distortion is played out is indicated by the natal placement of the Dark Moon Lilith.

It orbits around the Sun along with many other asteroids in the belt b/t Mars and Jupiter..

“The asteroids are symbolic transformers between these two energy systems and point to the techniques by which the lower octave vibrations may be raised to higher octave.” (Demetra George)

               
Sun, Merc, Venus, Mars,    asteroids   Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto

LILITH is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto.

The Dark Moon Lilith (119-177 days) - How this distortion is played out is indicated by the natal placement of the Dark Moon Lilith.
 DML is the distorted Lilith representing Lilith’s flee into a fiery rage of exile where she plots and executes her revenge.

Find your DML placement and know that this area ***Also creates a channel by which we can release the rage.***

The Black Moon Lilith ( 9 year cycle) is the resolution Lilith where one’s distorted image may be transformed into a natural healthy expression.  The dark Goddesses’ crescent shape knife cuts away all that is not authentic in our lives.  The ENFORCED (I REPEAT ENFORCED) clarity of the black moon allows us to penetrate to the essence, eliminating all things that are unnecessary, false and impure. ..um sound familiar… sounds like Pluto.

Wherever you find the resolution Lilith in your chart, represents an area where it will take tremendous COURAGE
Where you can release the repressed anger from lifetimes and be set free.
It is also an Area of TRANSFORMATION – creative energy of the feminine GODESS pours into you.

Lilith is the NATURAL WILD WOMAN in the birth chart so the moon and the nodes must be incorporated in the interpretation as well as Venus.

Points of Interest!

*Stressful aspects b/t Lilith and Mars, the planet that most clearly express the masculine power may indicate that a woman’s independence and confidence threatened or met with opposition by men. Her own inner male not strong

*Woman who have hard aspects to the Moon or in the 5th may have problems with pregnancy or childbirth..possible miscarriage, pregnant when does not wish to be or a fear of motherhood.


Often times transiting BM Lilith can bring back feeling of emotional pain..but only if it is in the area where you have compromised your primal nature. Lilith forces us to look at ourselves with utter naked EMOTIONAL honesty.

Goddess Bless the Goddess,
Kristin

« Last Edit: Jul 26, 2009, 10:49 AM by Kristin » Logged
Lucius
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« Reply #12 on: Jul 26, 2009, 07:23 PM »

Thank you so much, Kristin! Great starting points for inner meditation on one's true self.

There seems to be some controversy over 'valid' ephemeris for Dark Moon - and it seems the valid ephemeris is the 'waldemath' point.  If like me, you've fried your computer or have software useless on an old one you can go to astro.com & under 'extended chart selection' choose, at the bottom of the page, 'other horoscope factors and hypothetical planets' & at the bottom of that page is 'waldemath black moon'....which is h58

I don't know what the precise issue with the other ephemeris, but it has something to do with Sephariel, I believe...so....I'm using Waldemath  Wink 
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stephen
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« Reply #13 on: Jul 27, 2009, 07:20 AM »

Kristin,

  Excellant Post...thanks very much for that information.  Which book of George's is that?  'Asteriod Goddesses?'

  Could you (or anyone who knows) provide the symbols for these...?
      Black Moon Lilith....
      Dark Moon Lilith.....
      Lilith Asteriod........

  In my chart posted by Steve on this site, I see both the word 'Lilith' and another symbol, which is a sideways-crescent surmounting a cross.  Does the word Lilith represent the asteriod, and the other symbol represent Black Moon Lilith (or Dark Moon Lilith)?

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“The asteroids are symbolic transformers between these two energy systems and point to the techniques by which the lower octave vibrations may be raised to higher octave.” (Demetra George)

  That is such a great addition to my understanding.  I opened the Chiron, Rainbow Bridge book by Demetra George at random a few days ago, and the sentance that I read on that random page was that Chiron is a bridge between the inner planets (including Saturn and Jupiter) and the outer planets.

  And, the other day I was searching the Khaldea site of Mike Meyers wherein he is archiving the collected works of Dane Rudhyar, and I was using 'Pluto' as a keyword (since JWG had stated that Dane Rudhyar is the preeminant astrologer of this epoch in the dedication to his book 'Uranus: Freedom from the Known'), and Rudhyar states that Pluto (and Uranus and Neptune) are ambassidors of the Galaxy, so in a sense they too provide a bridging function, between us and the rest of the Cosmos.

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  Such "interventions" are especially related to the transits of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, for these planets outside of the Saturnian boundaries of the solar system proper can be symbolically regarded as "agents" or ambassadors of the galaxy whose function is to convey messages from the transindividual realm to the I-center of the mandala of personality, and also to serve as guideposts helping to orient the individual on his or her way to the "star." -Astrology of Transformation, Rudhyar

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  Saturn, however, represents a basic line of demarcation between these two opposite forces, galactic and solar. The planets inside of Saturn's orbit are mainly creatures and vassals of the Sun; while the planets beyond Saturn are what I have called, many years ago, "ambassadors of the galaxy." They focus upon the solar system the power of this vast community of stars, the galaxy. They do not completely belong to the solar system. They are within its sphere of influence to do a work, to link our small system (of which the Sun is the center and Saturn's orbit the circumference) with the larger system, the galaxy.  -Mysteries of Dream and Sleep, Rudhyar


  Pluto's elongated orbit (elongated: symbolizing the slow path of a Soul's evolution?) takes it within Neptune's more circular orbit (circle: symbolizing the Source of All?) for approximately 20 years out of its ~248 year orbit, and Pluto's perihelion (closets approach to the Sun) is within Neptune's perihelion, so that Pluto actually comes closer to the Sun (and us) than Neptune ever does.  Pluto went within Neptune's orbit from February 7, 1979 to February 11, 1999, and Pluto's perihelion on September 5,1989 was ~15° Scorpio.

  Here is an image of the orbital 'overlap' of Pluto and Neptune:
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/science/everything_pluto/images/16_PlutoPerihelion_large.jpg

  By the Way, since the EA Paradigm is layered upon the natal Pluto, here is a great link to Plutonian planetary details:
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/science/whatWeKnow.php

  Sorry that this post has become so long...I am fascinated by exactly these type of multiple resonances within the domain of Astrology.

 
  So, thank you Kristin for this further information.  The overlap of the 'bridging' concept really resonates with me, and stops me for a minute, nudging me to look up, and out...out and out into the Cosmos.

  Thank you for that further piece of the puzzle!!

God'dess Bless,
Stephen
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Lucius
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« Reply #14 on: Jul 27, 2009, 09:18 AM »

Hi Stephen - the asteroid lilith will just say, 'lilith'.....black moon is a crescent moon on top of a cross....I'm not entirely sure about Dark moon - in astrodienst's program using the 'waldemath dark moon' caluclations it just says 'waldemath'....however, I think I read that it is a circle with a line through it...?
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