School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Linda on Mar 17, 2009, 04:28 PM



Title: NO PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 17, 2009, 04:28 PM
I'm looking at a friend's chart.  He seems to be redirected back to Natal Pluto.

His wife is demanding that he join her church declaring that her religion is the only complete truth on this earth.

In his own words:  "If matters of the 9th House are my Soul's intended direction, maybe I must find the courage to let go of ego, let go of the idea that it matters if someone is right or wrong, and do the temple thing for the love of family.  On the other hand, what if the energy is reversed and the decision to stand firm on what I have come to believe is what the Soul is prompting?  And what of self integrity?.......The subject [Pluto polarity] spins my head like a top. "

Could you please clarify the process of Pluto Polarity / Redirection / Facilitators in relation to his chart?   ???  

His chart is attached.

Thank you.



Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Stacie on Mar 17, 2009, 09:25 PM
Hi Linda,

Could you please provide estimation of the evolutionary state for your friend?  This establishes the context that will tell us how all symbols in the chart will be essentially oriented within the archetypal spectrum.

Stacie


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 17, 2009, 10:39 PM
Hi Stacie,

I would estimate his evolutionary state or condition to be individuated.

Societal context:   white, American, democracy, middle class.

Many thanks.


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: adina on Mar 18, 2009, 08:50 AM
Hi Linda,

Not to split hairs here, but can you narrow it down to one of the three substages withIN the Individuated? It's a long journey from the beginning to the end of the stage, and how it manifests is vastly different. 


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Mar 18, 2009, 10:21 AM
Linda,
 Could you supply the birth data of this person ............ Thanks, Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 18, 2009, 03:25 PM
Adina:  Unfortunately I cannot narrow down his evolutionary condition to a sub-state, as I don't know what they are.  My friend has Moon in Scorpio in the 12th house.  He constantly talks about the Oneness, and that all he wants to do is to Love.  Here's another quote from him:

"My ego has always been fragile.  Scorpio Moon squaring Pluto, Pluto Polarity, NN and SN tends to that nicely.  So, it has been 'easy' to seek Leo's attention.  Being unusual, or eccentric, helps attract that attention.  However the extreme shyness and fear of rejection puts me in an inescapable box.   How do I know if I'm pushing forward, or taking the traditional SN 'easy way out'?

"So Aquarius aloofness, an air of indifference is 'easy' for me...but a mask for the depth of emotion I so desire.  Expansive beliefs, or mundane communication?  Big love, or ruthless, heartless indifference?  The choice that's 'easy' is apparently the 'wrong' one, if soul is to progress.  I don't want to learn indifference, or Zen 'detachment'.  I just want to love.  Then love some more.

"Jeff worked at Astrology et al...in the University district of Seattle.  I took a beginners course from him.  He was incredibly insightful, not only in class, but when he did my chart reading.  And very charismatic.  I remember writing him a personal ten-page letter after his first book came out.  It had hit me square between my Pluto/Cap eyes when I needed it most!  I just couldn't get over how right-on revealing it was!  I was living in So. California at the time, just beginning my transformational process.

"The clash with my wife over belief systems is a serious one.  It caused us to divorce after 17 years of marriage when I was first exposed to metaphysics, particularly astrology.  I came back 15 years later (transformed somewhat)  thinking I was strong enough to go along with her, that is, sacrifice my beliefs for the sake of family togetherness.  That was 11 years ago.  I find I cannot stop my spiritual pursuits tho it hurts her greatly.  In fact now I'm at a crisis point."


Rad:  His d.o.b.:  19 January 1944.  Time:  2.45 a.m.  Place:  San Diego, CA, US.

Adina and Rad, thank you, I hope the above will give a clue to his sub-state. 



Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: PatriciaW on Mar 18, 2009, 09:11 PM
Hi... Just from what you posted in the first place, about his concern for his souls evolution makes me think he is somewhere in 3rd stage indiv...to first stage spiritual? Further, I find it interesting that he mentioned a quandry about understanding the polarity point of Pluto..and it dosn't apply to his chart as it is conj the NN. Seems he already knows....which is of course the essence of the ninth house...trusting his inner knowing!!


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Mar 19, 2009, 10:59 AM
Hi Linda,
 First, there is no polarity point in this case because his Pluto is conjunct his N.Node in Leo in the 9th which means that his Soul, prior to this life, has already begun to desire and focus on a variety of philosophies, religions, and metaphysics from diverse cultures in order to understand the nature of Creation. That diversity is symbolized by his S.Node in Aquarius in his 3rd house which itself is ruled by his Uranus conjunct Mars in Gemini in his 7th House: the relativity of beliefs and ideas coming from a vast array of sources. The Uranus/Mars in Gemini are then ruled by his Mercury Retrograde in Capricorn in his 2nd House which then forms a inconjunction with that Mars/Uranus, and also inconjunct his Pluto in the 9th with the North Node. It also squares Neptune in Libra in his 11th.
  In combination this pattern correlates to his Soul instinctually rebelling against any system that proclaims and pretends to be 'the only way', the 'only' right truth. His Soul already knows that many paths lead to the same goal: he learned that prior to this life. He has already learned to rebel against anyone trying to tell him  that it's this or that truth or path. In that instinctual rebellion he then attempts to establish and assert his own authority, his own identity, his own inner relationship to himself: the 2nd house Mercury in Capricorn retrograde. That Mercury is ruled by his Saturn also in Gemini in his 8th House. Thus his Soul sets up confrontations with others who attempt to 'prove' that their truth, their religion, their ideas are the only and correct ones. This triggers his instinct to rebel and to then assert his own authority by posing very adept questions to such limited people, the nature of the questions posed of course threatening others who core sense of Soul security is rooted in their need to blind themselves to the whole truth: to shield themselves through the overlay of a specific religion or philosophy that pretends to be the 'only way'.
  With his Scorpio Moon squaring his Nodal Axis, and his Pluto, and that Moon also inconjuncting his Saturn/Mars in the 7th, relationships, he has attracted women over many lifetimes who have had a deep fear of being overpowered by life, women who have deep emotional and psychological wounds linked with abandonment caused through violations of trust. With that Moon squaring his 9th House Pluto and N.Node these kinds of women then 'compensate' for those fears and psychological dynamics by trying to create an entire reality that is defined by a religion or philosophy that pretends to be the 'only way'. The implied certainty of a religion pretending to be the 'only way' then creates that sense of psychological and emotional security within these kinds of women. So of course when those kinds of women are then presented with other ideas, other philosophies, other religions they can only feel threatened all over again, abandoned one more time by yet another partner who does not toe the line. Another 'crisis'.
  And so then these kinds of women then attempt to create 'crisis' for him: this threat, that threat, this claim, that claim about what is going to happen to him if he does not toe their line, and this can of course include the fanatical hysteria of all kinds of guilt trips emanating the dogmas of the religion that the women belongs too. With his Mercury in Capricorn squaring that Neptune in Libra in his 11th the nature of the types of 'groups' that belong to the kinds of religions that these women do, this includes wives over many lifetimes, and also has included the nature of his biological families at birth, are extreme and fanatical in what they 'believe'. And the guilt trips that come from them towards anyone who deviates from these religious dogmas are also extreme and fanatical. A perfect example of this would be Mormonism.
  Within these dynamics , and because of them, he then creates life after life in which her marriage partner has no real idea of who he actually is, can not give to him what he actually needs, and can not listen to him without feeling threatened unless he parrots back what the nature of the indoctrination is as defined by the religion or philosophy of his marriage partner. So of course the question becomes why, why is he designing lives like this ?
  The answer of course is seen in that Mercury Retrograde in Capricorn in his 2nd house: self reliance, emotional and psychological self reliance. His Soul has been doing this by creating necessary 'counter-point' realities that are in opposition to his actual nature, his actual inner reality. This then has the affect of driving him in upon himself in order to learn this ongoing lesson is self-reliance. This is the kind of process that he has designed that says 'not this, not that': I am not this, I am not that, I don't believe this, and I don't believe that. Thus, what am I ? What do I believe ? And so on. In this way he arrives progressively to the knowledge of who he actually is, how the Natural God designed him, his Soul, to be.
  As this evolutionary process occurs it becomes an evolutionary imperative to finally design an entire life that circumstantially looks like what his Soul is: no variation, no deviation at all. And this includes the types of people he has in his life as friends as well as that marriage mate. And thus a mate who  understands him and loves him as he is, a mate who can then give to him what he actually needs.
  Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 19, 2009, 02:50 PM
Rad,

Thank you for such an in-depth explanation of my friend's Pluto (soul) dynamics.  I love the way you have traced all the connections in his chart, and put them into a cohesive whole that is easy to understand.  I will pass this information onto him ... and I'm sure he will be truly delighted ... as once again EA has served him so well in his soul's journey.

He is now befriending other women, including myself, who understand the diversity of beliefs.  Some of these women are cyber-friends, and the connection with them, via thoughts and words, validates his true beliefs and the Oneness with the Universal Spirit.  Yet ultimately he needs to find his own self-reliance.  I do understand that now.

I wonder whether he will cave in to his wife's demands, or courageously reject them?  Pluto is now transiting his 2nd house (containing Mercury 8.40 deg Cap Rx, and ruled by Jupiter conjunct MC) where his values, duality system and belief systems will be subject to reformulation, expansion and change.

Thank you all for this forum.

 


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Mar 20, 2009, 12:15 PM
Linda,

I wonder whether he will cave in to his wife's demands, or courageously reject them?  Pluto is now transiting his 2nd house (containing Mercury 8.40 deg Cap Rx, and ruled by Jupiter conjunct MC) where his values, duality system and belief systems will be subject to reformulation, expansion and change.

***************************************************************************

 The answer to that question of course is an  unknown cause of the Natural Law of free choice. What can be said, given that his Scorpio Moon is squaring his Nodes, with the ruler of the S.Node being in his 7th, is that he and his wife have done this very dance in prior lives. It is indeed a 'skipped step' relative to his Soul's intention and evolutionary need to totally break free once and for all. And, yet, for many of the recent lifetimes he has been literally 'on the fence' in the sense of trying to live in his two worlds at the same time: one world being who his Soul actually is, and the other utterly divorced from who he actually is. As a result, to be blunt, he has created a 'karma' of duplicity. The increasing Pluto transit to his Mercury in Capricorn intention is to break free from this duality once and for all. Whether he makes that choice is anyone's guess at this point. And until he makes this choice this 'dance' will continue to come up in his next life , and the next one, etc until that choice is made.

Rad





 


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 20, 2009, 03:31 PM
Hi Rad,

Thanks for further insightful information which I will pass on to CS.

Here's some feedback from him:

This may be the most important piece of information I have received in lifetimes!  The 'answer' resonates at a deep level.  Pluto is squaring my progressed Sun.  At the time of our divorce, Pluto squared my natal Sun. Yes, it is my decision...to choose Soul-based authenticity, or subservience to fear of loss.  The decision could not be made without material I was not capable of obtaining alone.  Do you know the feeling, Linda, when the piece of the puzzle is found?  Not the final one, but the one that allows for the first time to glimpse the overall meaning...how all has been strung together (as with a 'silver thread')?  I've never had these things told me with such perfect symmetry.  The info went down like honey, like it was the most natural thing in the world.

Thank you once again for shedding so much light on my friend's dilemma. 

I would like to ask you about Pluto squaring my Nodal Axis, but I'll do that in another thread.  :)



Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 21, 2009, 06:01 PM
Rad,

You said:  "......there is no polarity point in this case because his Pluto is conjunct his N.Node in Leo in the 9th which means that his Soul, prior to this life, has already begun to desire and focus on a variety of philosophies, religions, and metaphysics from diverse cultures in order to understand the nature of Creation."

Does this simply mean that he is meant to continue in this area, that he has further lessons in the 9th house area of life?  What about the future?  Is the future determined by looking at the North Node only?  Would the future be dependant on the choices he makes in this life?

PatriciaW,

You said:  ".....it [the polarity point] doesn't apply to his chart as it is conj the NN."

What does it mean when the polarity point does not apply in a chart?

When most others in his generation are moving toward the Pluto Polarity Point  (Aquarius + house position + NN + ruler), why does it seem like he is being left behind?  His South Node happens to be Aquarius.  (Sorry, I don't know how to pose this question another way.)

I suppose this makes him quite unique!

An explanation or any thoughts would be appreciated.


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Deva on Mar 22, 2009, 09:18 AM
Hi Linda, great question! When Pluto conjuncts the NN is does indiciate that the Soul has worked towards  actualizing the evolutionary intentions symbolized by the house and sign position of the Pluto and the NN (in this case Leo/9th house) that the Soul is meant to continue in that direction in this life. That is why Pluto's polarity point does not apply in in that case. In other words, the Soul is meant to keep going in the direction symbolized by Pluto conjunct the North Node (full actualization of the evolutionary intentions decribed by Pluto/NN conjunction). If there are other planets forming aspects to the south Node then those planets will describe areas of potential stagnation and blocks towards actualizing Pluto/North Node evolutionary intentions. He is not being "left behind" in less he is not acting to develop these evolutionary intentions. Any of us can be "left behind" for a while in that context! (I mean when we go through resistance towards our essential growth needs). I am being humerous but the point is that Pluto conjunct the NN simply indicates a specific life lesson (s) that must be accomplished. The choose to cooperate or resist is his own. Yes, this person could and most likely does have a gift to give relative to Pluto in leo/9th house conjuct the NN. (very developed intuitive capacity, and natural teaching abilities for example).
Hope this helps
Deva   


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Mar 22, 2009, 12:12 PM
Rad,

You said:  "......there is no polarity point in this case because his Pluto is conjunct his N.Node in Leo in the 9th which means that his Soul, prior to this life, has already begun to desire and focus on a variety of philosophies, religions, and metaphysics from diverse cultures in order to understand the nature of Creation."

Does this simply mean that he is meant to continue in this area, that he has further lessons in the 9th house area of life?  What about the future?  Is the future determined by looking at the North Node only?  Would the future be dependant on the choices he makes in this life?

PatriciaW,

You said:  ".....it [the polarity point] doesn't apply to his chart as it is conj the NN."

What does it mean when the polarity point does not apply in a chart?

When most others in his generation are moving toward the Pluto Polarity Point  (Aquarius + house position + NN + ruler), why does it seem like he is being left behind?  His South Node happens to be Aquarius.  (Sorry, I don't know how to pose this question another way.)

I suppose this makes him quite unique!

An explanation or any thoughts would be appreciated.


Hi Linda,
  In any chart that you see the Pluto conjunct the N.Node symbol it means that there is no polarity point for Pluto because the intention of the Soul is to continue it's evolutionary development as symbolized by the House and Sign of the Pluto/N.Node conjunction which has already been underway prior to the current life. And in any chart that one sees this will always mean, of course, that the opposite sign of that Pluto/N.Node conjunction has already been developed to the point of limiting the Soul's evolution if it remains focused on that alone. If so, then the Soul arrives at a place of Plutonian stagnation and non-growth.
  So when the EA astrologer sees Pluto conjunct the N.Node in any chart it means that the entire chart, the entire evolutionary intent, is be focused upon and through that house and sign of the Pluto / N.Node conjunction. That does not mean that the S.Node in such charts does not evolve: it does. But it evolves through the focus upon the house and sign of the Pluto/N.Node conjunction.
  In your friends case that means, in his individual context, his Soul evolutionary journey, as stated before, that he collected vast amounts of information from a diversity of sources relative to his underlying desire to know the truth that is responsible for the Creation itself. This is the interaction, interplay. between that S.Node in Aquarius in his 3rd House which is ruled by his Uranus/ Mars conjunction in Gemini, this of course repeats and magnifies this theme or dynamic, in the 7th House, and his 9th House Pluto/ N.Node conjunction: the search for the whole truth, the core underlying truths of Creation itself.
  What his Soul has been and is intending is to discover, FROM WITHIN HIMSELF versus other people, what those core truths and principles are: the 9th House Pluto/N.Node conjunction. This is exactly where he stands in his own evolution: the next step. And this is essential because what his Soul has been doing is collecting so many ideas and philosophies and so many different people, so many external authorities, for so many lifetimes it is as if his Soul has become almost like a library within itself because of all that collected information. This becomes ever more dramatic when the EA astrologer puts the Planetary Nodes in his Chart.
  The S.Node of Neptune in conjunct his S.Node of the Moon is his 3rd House. And the N.Node of Neptune is in Leo conjunct his Pluto/ N.Node conjunction in the 9th. All of this symbols of course square his Moon in Scorpio in the 12th. That S.Node of Neptune is ruled by his natal Neptune in Libra in the 11th. This, again, is repeating the prior life dynamics, themes, of seeking out all this information from a variety of groups, some of which have been extreme and fanatical: delusional and illusionary. With the Scorpio Moon in the 12th, itself ruled by Pluto in the 9th, and it's lower octave ruler, Mars, conjunct Uranus in Gemini in the 7th, some of the leaders or authorities within these groups have been extremely charismatic: so much so that they are able to convert people through the power of their personalities. These types need 'followers'. And there have been many lives in which your friend has indeed followed these types, with these delusional ideas pretending to be 'the truth'. He had done this alone, and his has done this in conjunction with partners that he as been with: the Mars, independence, with Uranus in his 7th, partners.
  This joining of groups in which had  these kinds of 'leaders' , the external authorities, is also seen in his chart relative to his natal Mercury in Capricorn in his 2nd house. His S.Nodes of Mercury and Venus are also conjunct that Mercury. And these are ruled by Saturn in, yes, Gemini, in his 8th House. So, in his context, you can see yet again that relative to his desires to understand the nature of truths that explain the nature of the Creation that he has subjected himself to all kinds of external authorities over a diversity of cultures and times. He in fact made himself dependent on this orientation for most of his prior lifetimes that have lead up until the most recent prior lives in which that orientation had reached an evolutionary limit which is the reason and intention of that Pluto / N.Node conjunction.
  Of course it is logical to ask the question as to why his Soul did it that way. And the answer is seen in that Scorpio Moon squaring his Nodal Axis of the Moon and Neptune. Within that his Moon also in inconjuncting his Mars/Uranus in his 7th, and Uranus is the ruler of his 4th House. What all that means is that his Soul has come through parents in which one or both , given their own evolutionary capacity, did not have the ability to understand that nature of his Soul, his unique individuality. And thus he could not be loved and given too in the ways that any child naturally needs. Quite the opposite in his case: being subjected to beliefs and values , thus judgments, that had nothing to do with him. This in turn lead to all kinds of 'displaced emotions', Uranus the ruler of his 4th house inconjuncting his Scorpio Moon, of childhood that got progressively stuffed into his sub-conscious, or individuated unconscious, as he got ever older in those lives.
  These displaced emotions from childhood , essentially the emotional needs to be loved and nurtured, operated within his unconsciousness in ways that lead to the external authorities , de facto parents, relative to his core desires to know and understand the natural truths that explain the Creation. The types of parents that he would come through in those lives had very limited understandings of life, limited value systems, and limited capacity to even love. The primary message he would get in those lives from such parents would essentially be the message of 'we will love you if'. Meaning if you do what we tell you to do, be who we want you to be, believe in what we want you to believe, etc. So then as an adult he would then join these groups with those types of leaders who needed to be followed and obeyed at all costs. And when he did so he was then given love and attention.
  As his Soul comes through lifetimes that reached an evolutionary limit, and, as it did so, he began to rebel against these very dynamics, and the circumstantial realities that they would create. He began to create a deep conflict between those dynamics and his evolutionary need, imperative, to discover his own emotional security from within himself: the Scorpio Moon squaring the Nodal Axis of the Moon and Neptune, the inconjuncts from it to the Uranus/Mars itself. And that very evolutionary need created at the same time for him to discover, from within himself, the truths that explain the nature of the Creation. They go together: this is his Moon squaring his N.Node and Pluto in the 9th. This is seen again via his natal Mercury, now retrograde, conjunct his S.Nodes of Venus and Mercury in his 2nd house: the evolutionary need for self-reliance by rebelling against and throwing off not only external authorities who say 'follow me', but also all the ideas, information, and philosophies that have nothing to do with the actual and natural truth that explains the nature of the Creation.
  His S.Node of Mars is conjunct his Venus in Sagittarius in his 1st house, and that is ruled by his Jupiter in Leo, also retrograde in his 10th house. His N.Node of Mars is in Aries, in the 5th House. And, yes, that N.Node of Mars inconjuncts his Scorpio Moon in his 12th. Here, in these symbols, you can see once again the core intention of his Pluto in Leo conjunct his N.Node in the 9th. Look at the repeating themes in these symbols. These symbols all mean the same thing: to break from from external dependencies for all the reasons that we have discussed, and to move towards a life that is defined by self reliance, inner security, inner authority, and an entire life, the circumstances of, that reflect who he naturally is as God made him to be. To become a group of one if necessary. And it means to arrive at committing to one metaphysical system, one philosophy, one cosmology that serves as a consistent anchor of integration and understanding for life itself: Pluto conjunct the N.Node in the 9th. This is essential in order to counteract the existing 'library' of all kinds of information , ideas, philosophies, etc in his head that he has collected over many lives now. That existing library can thus create great confusion and doubt about the nature of the Creation in the first place because of all the competing points of view and the perspectives that they lead too.
  Not that by arriving at the one philosophy that reflects who he truly is would then be presented to anyone else as the 'only way', but the way that works for him given where he is in evolutionary terms. The very nature of the philosophy or way of understanding the nature of the Creation for him would, of itself, equal the 'relativity' of truth in the sense that they are many paths that lead to the same goal: God.
  All this right now is critically important for him as the transiting Nodal axis of the Moon is  now reversed relative to his natal nodal axis. The transiting S.Node right now is conjunct his N.Node, and the N.Node transit in conjunct his S.Node. And, of course, both are square his natal Moon is Scorpio. The Pluto transit, his Soul, is coming up on his Mercury, and the S.Nodes of Venus and Mercury. In essence his past is meeting  his future in these symbols. It comes to a head. And the choices he now makes can be some of the most critical choices for this life. He either, once and for all, throws off the existing duplicity of his life, trying to maintain both of these realities at the same time, or he doesn't.


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Kristin on Mar 22, 2009, 02:47 PM
Hi Rad,

Wow..Astrology always reflects reality perfectly. Linda's friend has clearly reached this critical gate and the cosmic climate now with those transiting nodes and transiting Pluto in place to help him break vicious cycles of repeating themes. He has been given this great gift of insight, Pluto style from the EA board and there he sits with Pluto on his NN in the 9th. Also here comes Pluto about to contact his Mercury, downloads of info for his Soul. It's all lining up for him.

Kristin


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 22, 2009, 03:44 PM

.....the Soul is meant to keep going in the direction symbolized by Pluto conjunct the North Node.

.....Pluto conjunct the NN simply indicates a specific life lesson (s) that must be accomplished.

.....Yes, this person could and most likely does have a gift to give relative to Pluto in Leo/9th house conjuct the NN.
 


Deva:

Thank you for clarifying Pluto conjunct the NN. 

The above is the way I have always understood it, but I was not completely sure. 

It's great receiving confirmation from you.

Thank you so much for this forum, for teaching and sharing astrological knowledge.


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 22, 2009, 03:55 PM

.........Look at the repeating themes in these symbols. These symbols all mean the same thing: to break from from external dependencies for all the reasons that we have discussed, and to move towards a life that is defined by self reliance, inner security, inner authority, and an entire life, the circumstances of, that reflect who he naturally is as God made him to be.

.........And it means to arrive at committing to one metaphysical system, one philosophy, one cosmology that serves as a consistent anchor of integration and understanding for life itself: Pluto conjunct the N.Node in the 9th.

.........All this right now is critically important for him as the transiting Nodal axis of the Moon is  now reversed relative to his natal nodal axis.

.........In essence his past is meeting his future in these symbols. It comes to a head. And the choices he now makes can be some of the most critical choices for this life. He either, once and for all, throws off the existing duplicity of his life, trying to maintain both of these realities at the same time, or he doesn't.



Rad:

Thank you for your insight into the planetary nodes that describe repeating themes in CS's journey.

I will pass this important information on to him and will post his feedback.


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Mar 28, 2009, 03:00 PM
Deva and Rad,

CS is formulating some feedback for you but is waiting a few days until more is assimilated.  He hasn't been well.  It certainly is a critical time in his Soul's journey through this lifetime.



Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Apr 03, 2009, 04:59 AM
Dear Rad and Deva,

Here's the feedback from CS (Chuck Hungerford):

Hi Rad, Deva and all at the ER forum...who have helped me understand the polarity point issue when Pluto conjuncts NN.  To you and Linda, I offer eternal thanks.  Your effort spent on behalf of a complete stranger is as great an evidence of the 'rightness' of this work (joyful play) as the message itself.  You have shed your generous Light on probably the most important part of my spiritual life.   In so doing, you have freed within me energy that I am just beginning to grok...notions are flowing, ideas are swirling, connections are rapid-fire.  I feel like 'Horselover Fats' from 'Valis' after he was zapped with a blue light.
 
My ninth house now LIVES!  Its energy is filling me up, already spilling over into the world like never before, unhindered by the vascillation, the this(?), or that(?) thinking, the anxiety of not knowing which direction was my Soul's intended direction.  Single mindedness needs more attention.  It is the key to understanding.  You have offered me this key...and so finely honed.  How did you know it is indeed a 'Mormon' woman to whom I'm Married?   
 
Everything you said about our relative positions is precisely on target.  It's as if you were in my shoes all these years.  I did not know whether I would be passing my Soul's test by giving up my beliefs for another...or by sticking to what I have come to believe.  I honestly did not know which way to go...
 
It isn't as if the decision was to follow another's beliefs blindly (not knowing any better).  No, the choice was:  having discovered a spiritual path that filled me with ecstasy, that never exhausts me, that is based in love and acceptance of all (regardless of what we believe), that is joy at its most fulfilling...having embraced that, would I be exercising these beliefs by complying with my Mormon wife's wishes to be sealed in a LDS temple?  She is a good person who believes in her faith with ever fibre of her being.  It isn't that she will judge me, but that she will be so hurt and dissappointed if I refuse?  I already know all paths become one, so what would it hurt for me to 'go along' with her wishes?  Except that in order to go thru the temple, I would have to tell church authorities that I believe the church to be the only truth.  I don't think My soul would stand still for this lie.   
 
I thought maybe going with my own beliefs at the expense of another's hopes and wishes would smack of selfishness.  I just didn't know...and it's been that way for years.  But now that you have shown where ninth house issue are my soul's intention, everyting is falling into place. Just last night there was anopportunity to make a decision (to a smaller degree) on this matter.  Normally I cave, but this time did not.  The hurtful cold shoulder was given only for a moment, then she somehow let it go.   
 
Another thing...I have been fretting about how to go about this without being unkind, or uncaring...thinking that everyone was going to suffer in one way or another.   Then, suddenly I realized the answer...The 'group of one' of which you spoke, Rad, for me is that we create our realties every moment with our thoughts words and action.  I believe this to be literal, and talk about it to others.  So I realized by thinking so frettingly, I would surely bring it upon us.  Now, I don't know how this will all come out, but I know both us us will learn valuable lessons, be aware that we have helped each other spiritually...and that we will both end up happy.
 
Sorry about going on so, but wanted you to know you have made a difference.  Love deserves and creates only Love.  This is what you have done for me.  I am very excited about a single-minded future.   
 
Now knowing the Focal point of my chart, it has become easy to feel the unifying energy as you made all the connections beautifully, and so easily understandable...from Squared moon to conjuncted Mars/uranus, to inconjuncted Mercury...and around and round...now so much more efficiently.
 
I do have some other questions.  If It is ok, would love to ask them down the road sometime...and keep you posted on developments.
 
Thank every one of you again.  You have turned a lifelong confusing maze into a smooth spiral path that I now confidently approach, knowing precisely where it is to lead.   
 
Say Hi to Jeff for me.   
Chuck Hungerford


*   *   *

Many thanks!


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Apr 03, 2009, 11:33 AM
Hi Linda,
 Please send Chuck a big thanks for his comments and feedback. This is such a neat example of what Evolutionary Astrology can do for any Soul. And please tell Chuck that he of course can ask questions as they occur down the road. It will actually provide a good and ongoing thread for this message board: evolution itself of a Soul.

 Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Apr 14, 2009, 02:19 PM
Could I please ask another question?

What is the orb for Pluto conjunct North Node - which then makes the chart a No Polarity Point one?

I've come across quite a few charts where the North Node is, say, within 10 degrees of Pluto - and I take that to be a "No Polarity Point" chart.

In other charts, the North Node is in the same sign and house as Pluto - but much wider than 10 degrees.  I tend to think that these charts are also No Polarity Point charts?  But I'm not sure.

Thank you.



Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Apr 16, 2009, 10:02 AM
Could I please ask another question?

What is the orb for Pluto conjunct North Node - which then makes the chart a No Polarity Point one?

I've come across quite a few charts where the North Node is, say, within 10 degrees of Pluto - and I take that to be a "No Polarity Point" chart.

In other charts, the North Node is in the same sign and house as Pluto - but much wider than 10 degrees.  I tend to think that these charts are also No Polarity Point charts?  But I'm not sure.

Thank you.



Hi Linda,
   The orb is 10 degrees for conjunctions ........... and, yes, when Pluto and the N.Node are in the same house there is no polarity point because with the S.Node in the house of what would be it's natural polarity point this means that that has already been in operation prior to the current life. So the entire intent is then in the house/ signs of the Pluto and N.Node. You can actually measure how relatively new or old that intent is by determining if Pluto is before or after the conjunction to that N.Node. In a balsamic phase it is relatively new, and that relative newness can be determined by the amount of distance, degrees, from that N.Node. The same is true for when Pluto is after that N.Node.

  Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Lia on Apr 16, 2009, 12:45 PM
Hi Linda and Rad,

Rad, I hope you don't mind if I clarify something for Linda and others to avoid any misunderstanding: normally the balsamic conj. would mean that the conj. at hand is an old one, a cluminating one which has been worked on already. HOWEVER, because the nodes normal movement is retrograde so this is why Rad said via the balsamic conj. we can identify the newness of the conj. This exception of the "rule" again, is due to opposite direction of the nodes.

Blessings,

Lia


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Linda on Apr 16, 2009, 03:18 PM
Thanks Rad and Lia,

Could you please confirm that my understanding of this is correct?  Using Chuck's chart as an example:

His Pluto is 7.48 deg Leo Rx.
His N.Node 6.50 deg Leo.

Q1.  Does this indicate a balsamic phase? 

Q2.  Are we saying that his soul intent is a relatively new one? 

Q3.  Or are we saying that his desire to continue in the Leo 9th house area of life is a relatively new one?

Q4.  The relative newness is determined by the amount of distance between Pluto and the NN:  in Chuck's chart just under 1 deg.  So this is very new? 

It feels great getting these questions answered!


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Apr 17, 2009, 12:30 PM
HI Linda,

Thanks Rad and Lia,

Could you please confirm that my understanding of this is correct?  Using Chuck's chart as an example:

His Pluto is 7.48 deg Leo Rx.
His N.Node 6.50 deg Leo.

Q1.  Does this indicate a balsamic phase? 


YES ............



Q2.  Are we saying that his soul intent is a relatively new one? 


Well, relative is relative ... so relatively speaking ! it is not ... for example his Pluto could be 30 degrees away from that N.Node .. balsamic side .. and that would mean 'brand new' .. so the closer it has been getting you can see, relatively speaking, that it now 'new'. By having it within one degree of that N.Node it means THIS EVOLUTIONARY INTENT IS COMING TO A HEAD. And, as it comes to a head and then becomes the actual reality of the Soul without any variation or wobbling, then the Soul lives that realized intent for the immediate lifetimes to come. That would then mean that the N.Node Pluto conjunction would then move into a new phase .. actual conjunctions .. then onto they both  being in the same house and moving away from any aspect between the two at all.

Q3.  Or are we saying that his desire to continue in the Leo 9th house area of life is a relatively new one?

No, see above ........relatively speaking !!

Q4.  The relative newness is determined by the amount of distance between Pluto and the NN:  in Chuck's chart just under 1 deg.  So this is very new? 


No, it means it is coming to a head .. remember what was written for him earlier .. and that the transiting N. and S. Nodes now have been conjuncting his Nodes and Pluto .. The South on the North, and visa versa which is why his Soul is trying to make that break from prior duality..duplicity .. final.


It feels great getting these questions answered!

Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Stacie on Apr 17, 2009, 02:30 PM
Hi Rad,

Are you absolutely sure about pluto and north node being in balsamic phase?  According to my understanding of how determine phase of planets relative to moon's nodes, this would be a new phase conjunction.  Wolf taught that because the mean motion of the lunar nodes is retrograde, the normal rules for determining phase are reversed.  Could you please clarify?

Thanks so much,
Stacie


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Apr 17, 2009, 03:08 PM
Hi Rad,

Are you absolutely sure about pluto and north node being in balsamic phase?  According to my understanding of how determine phase of planets relative to moon's nodes, this would be a new phase conjunction.  Wolf taught that because the mean motion of the lunar nodes is retrograde, the normal rules for determining phase are reversed.  Could you please clarify?

Thanks so much,
Stacie

*************************************************************************

 Hi Stacie,
   Whoops ........ yes, you are right ........... it is a new phase by one degree. Which would then mean that his evolutionary intent has just come to a head in this life.
  Woke up with a migraine this morning so the eyes were a bit crossed. Thanks for catching this.

 Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Lia on Apr 17, 2009, 04:19 PM
Hi Everyone,

Thanks Stacie for clarifying this :) That's what I meant earlier; what normally would be a balsamic conj. would determine the  "newness" of evolutionary intent as Rad put it.
I think this can be confusing for some who new to EA.... So what it means in simple terms, the node, going to the opposite direction just passed pluto, thus it just started a new cycle around it. Pluto is slower therefore it is the base for consideration.

Hope I'm not overexplaining it ::)



Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: chuck h on Apr 25, 2009, 01:36 AM
Hi everyone!

This is my first post on this Angel-driven forum.   The information discussed here is Heavenly.
I am Linda's friend, the person she so kindly asked questions for…concerning Pluto conjunct NN.  I wanted to post sooner, to more-personally thank you all for the eye/Soul-opening direction to which you have turned me, but my brain seems to have gone into ‘lock-down’ mode.  I’ve fallen behind in all my communication obligations.

I have come to cherish freedom of mind, of creativity.  The limitless explorations, and the discoveries which ultimately find their connectedness in the One…are the joy of living.  The fruits gathered, then sown by our little selves casting a traceable path, drawing us ever nearer to that wholeness, to SELF…as we learn how to read life, and listen to the Universe.

You…Linda, Deva, Rad, everyone of you,  are the Universe expanding and becoming as you help people like me awaken.   You, my Soul, my togetherness has brought me to this place at this time so that I may recognize and squarely face Soul’s intention.  That is, to trust these beliefs which grant everyone freedom without judgment, which know no separation…no withholding of love…no ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’.  If I can do this thing, we all blossom a little more.  I am so grateful to you.

Each journey thru a lifetime is a hero’s quest.  You have helped me see that my quest has been stymied, maybe for lifetimes.  Opportunities missed, chances blown.  Often so close…freedom within grasp, only to be lost once again to enchaining neediness.
 
 Neediness, emotional dependency, refusal to ‘let go’…hidden in the clever and convincing guise of compassion, empathy and tender feelings.  These are my plague, my wolf in sheep’s clothing…
I thought that once you had shone your light clearly on the key to Soul’ intention, it would become easier to proceed.  But no, the opposite is happening.  I have more reason than ever to become ‘self-reliant’, yet I keep putting off the dramatic, consequential conversation with my wife………

Long ago, when I began studying astrology, I read somewhere that Pluto square Moon was the ‘lone wolf’ aspect, and that those with it end their lives alone.  And tho I enjoy alone time, something…something prevents me from letting go.  It doesn’t surprise me, Rad, when you say this has gone on for lifetimes.  It is so mysterious, so paradoxical...so difficult.  The one hand desiring freedom, the other…not taking it when offered.  I literally divorced myself form the issue before, only to come back into the same predicament.  Can that make any sense at all to a logical Capricorn?  Is the wound so deep that  (HEY!!! Maybe that’s it!  Just as I typed that, it came to me that there is a wound somewhere, something that believes that safety and love can only be gained at the expense of giving oneself up to, or for, another.  I have to think about this as I type on.  But look at this...T-Saturn is exactly on my 10th house Chiron now!)…..

T-Pluto squared N-Sun when we divorced.  15 years later, I went back.  Now another 11 years gone by, and  T-Pluto is squaring Progressed sun.  Another chance to face the issue.  Pluto wants to help complete the transformation for once and for all.  But I am weak.
Even if divorce is not again the outcome, she will be very hurt, then cold and distant, which my sensitivities cannot tolerate.  Her Moon is five degrees Aquarius, conjunct my SN, opposite Pluto/NN and joining the T-square with My Scorpio Moon.  Could the answer be found at 5,6, or 7 Taurus?

Self-worth has always been an issue with me, as I have done plenty to attract guilt feelings throughout life.  She is the picture of a perfect LDS wife, adhering devotedly to Mormon principle.  She is a good woman.  I am, and always have been the ‘bad guy’.  I am the one who has not ‘conformed.  I am the one who gave his word he would conform, not knowing this transformation was around the corner.  But even AFTER the divorce, even after learning of Pluto and his ways…I came back and promised again to conform.  How needy is that’s???   Now I am to hurt her, our sons, and now grandchildren…again?

Most members of my family and its extensions see me as an escapist who is evading living the strict Mormon creed…or that ‘the devil’ has lead me astray…or that I have just plain ‘lost touch’. 
There remains the small (maybe large) part of me, the one who considers little self to be nothing...a scoundrel  (he abandoned his children), the one who does not feel worthy of claiming his right to be himself (self-reliance issues).   So the dilemma continues to go unresolved. 

Then there is the other thing…Maybe the test is to give up my ego needs, and relinquish my beliefs, or at least  subdue them for the sake of another.  After all, Pluto/NN are in loving Leo.  Isn’t this the greatest of loves, to lie down your life for another?   Plus, SN is in Aquarius.  Maybe  I’m to leave astrology behind???   

Anyway, I wanted to give you an update.  Anything that will shed additional light will be more appreciated than I can express.   All my energies seem stuck.  Of course I know that it comes down to me…to just doing it, hopefully right this time. 

Which of the two expressers above am I?  How do I integrate the one one I despise?

Chuck

p.s.  I believe in synchronicity as the voice of the Universe.  At the exact moment I finished writing this, my cell phone rang.  It was a recorded message that the warranty on my car had expired.  It is time to renew.  The final words were:  ‘It’s not too late’.




Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Apr 26, 2009, 09:23 AM
Hi Chuck,

 Thanks for your update and sharing what you have. The essence of your evolutionary conditions and the reasons for that were given already, as were the evolutionary ways to proceed. Nothing has changed from that. Really what you are doing is still finding 'reasons' that essentially mask your fear of making the decisions necessary to break free from the paradoxical trap that you have created for yourself. As long as those fears remain and define the CORE of your Soul reality the paradox of your reality will be sustained. And it is those fears that are the cause of finding the 'reasons' to sustain your trap.  All those 'reasons' of course can sound ever so practical and 'real'. Yet, in the end, they are excuses. Until you are truly Soul ready to address the underlying fears that sustain your paradoxical reality nothing can actually change in the sense of affecting permanent change. Until then you will continue to reach out to others of true like mind in order to solicit their advise. You have received much advise already from others because of. Thus, it's not a lack of knowledge that is the issue or problem: it is the implementation of that advise that you know to be true that is the real issue because of the underlying fears that prevent you from that implementation. And until that is done you will simply keep spinning around and around on the same wheel that you are on now. The current transits in your chart speak as strongly as they can to your Soul's need to stop that wheel from spinning. It is time to get off that wheel. Yet your Soul has been at this juncture before, the same  place. At what point do you say enough is enough ?

 Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: chuck h on Apr 26, 2009, 10:31 AM
Hi Rad!

I smiled broadly while reading your reply.  Wisdom/Soul could have responded no other way.  It was a joy to see the perfect consistency.  This, in itself, was my prize for posting. Yes, there is no more 'information' that needs to be gathered.  What I'll try to do while necessary courage is being summoned from within, is to act as if I am already 'on the other side' of this issue.  This will put my Spirit in the midst of joy and creativity...from which place I shall pull little-self thru the storm.  It will be fun.

Thank you for the 'boost', kind Rad.
chuck 


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Apr 27, 2009, 10:15 AM
Hi Chuck,
 That is a good strategy for now. And please remember that relative to your 9th House Pluto/N.Node conjunction that, in the end, your Soul desires to immerse itself into Natural Laws that God has created versus BELIEFS of any kind. Natural laws require NO BELIEFS at all for there in nothing to believe in. Natural laws are self evident truths that simply exist and can be 'proved' because, indeed, they are Natural Laws: the way God created everything. Natural laws only require validation of those laws through actual experiences that require no beliefs: only validation of actual experience. Simple example: Jesus said and taught that 'when thy eye is single one's whole body is full of light'. This is a provable experience by any Soul independent of beliefs, cultures, religions, genders, or history itself. And that is because it is a Natural Law that is timeless.
  It is simply time for your Soul to throw off, liberate from, all 'beliefs' of any kind including the 'beliefs' of your wife that you have internalized in such a way as to use them to judge yourself in negative ways. And, in so doing, keeping yourself in that paradoxical trap.

  Rad
 


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: chuck h on Apr 28, 2009, 02:20 PM
Hi Rad,

Thank you for making the distinction between natural law and beliefs.  We are One with everything, so no judgment or separation, no this, no that, but All expressing freely thru its infinite blossoming.

chuck


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: jana on Feb 16, 2010, 09:48 AM

Hi Linda,
   The orb is 10 degrees for conjunctions ........... and, yes, when Pluto and the N.Node are in the same house there is no polarity point because with the S.Node in the house of what would be it's natural polarity point this means that that has already been in operation prior to the current life. So the entire intent is then in the house/ signs of the Pluto and N.Node.

Hi Rad,

Does having Pluto and the NN in the same house, but different signs put a polarity point in action? In my case, Leo NN, Pluto in Virgo...both in the ninth house?

Thank you,

Jana


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Feb 16, 2010, 12:22 PM
Hi Jana,

     Pluto, by sign, always has it's own polarity point that reflects it's core evolutionary intentions. In your case that would be Pisces relative to Virgo. With your S.Node in Aquarius in the 3rd, N Node in Leo in the 9th, this of course correlates to your Soul desiring to collect information from all kinds of sources relative to the core desire of your Pluto in the 9th: to understand the nature of things, the nature of the Creation, the nature of the Cosmos, and how you, and anyone, fit into it. The N.Node in the 9th, relative to your Pluto means, just prior to your current life, your Soul desired to be able to put together all the acquired information gained over many lifetimes into a cohesive whole versus all kinds of information that sometimes made sense, sometimes not, one idea conflicting or undermining another that would lead to Soul cycles of clarity and then confusion. So the process of arriving at that cohesive way of putting it all together has been, and is, underway. And is meant to be sustained. Yet by Pluto being in Virgo, instead of Leo which would have the Aquarius polarity point, your S.Node, it has a different polarity point by sign: Pisces.

     So, in essence, the Pisces polarity of your Pluto in Virgo in the 9th means to continue your Soul's need to not only intuitively understand all the Natural Laws that are the basis of Creation itself that then creates that cohesive whole, the philosophical foundation of your life that serves as to how you understand and interpret the phenomenal nature of the Creation, and your and everyone's place within it, but to continue to exercise a keen discrimination that throws off ideas and information that are not part of what is naturally true and, at the same time, to continue to add on this cohesive system of the natural understanding of the Creation relative to information and inner realizations that allow it to expand.


    Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: jana on Feb 16, 2010, 01:47 PM
Hi Jana,

     Pluto, by sign, always has it's own polarity point that reflects it's core evolutionary intentions. In your case that would be Pisces relative to Virgo. With your S.Node in Aquarius in the 3rd, N Node in Leo in the 9th, this of course correlates to your Soul desiring to collect information from all kinds of sources relative to the core desire of your Pluto in the 9th: to understand the nature of things, the nature of the Creation, the nature of the Cosmos, and how you, and anyone, fit into it. The N.Node in the 9th, relative to your Pluto means, just prior to your current life, your Soul desired to be able to put together all the acquired information gained over many lifetimes into a cohesive whole versus all kinds of information that sometimes made sense, sometimes not, one idea conflicting or undermining another that would lead to Soul cycles of clarity and then confusion. So the process of arriving at that cohesive way of putting it all together has been, and is, underway. And is meant to be sustained. Yet by Pluto being in Virgo, instead of Leo which would have the Aquarius polarity point, your S.Node, it has a different polarity point by sign: Pisces.

     So, in essence, the Pisces polarity of your Pluto in Virgo in the 9th means to continue your Soul's need to not only intuitively understand all the Natural Laws that are the basis of Creation itself that then creates that cohesive whole, the philosophical foundation of your life that serves as to how you understand and interpret the phenomenal nature of the Creation, and your and everyone's place within it, but to continue to exercise a keen discrimination that throws off ideas and information that are not part of what is naturally true and, at the same time, to continue to add on this cohesive system of the natural understanding of the Creation relative to information and inner realizations that allow it to expand.


    Rad

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain/demonstrate how to synthesize those seemingly disparate placements to a newbie. Can I extrapolate and conclude that the my Pisces polarity point embrace differs from my past lives engagement w/the many paths to God/ess, and that This life requires a emotional Piscean surrender?

Again thank you for your help and the gift that is this site,

Jana
Peace


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: Rad on Feb 16, 2010, 02:15 PM
Hi Jana,

  Yes ....................

 Rad


Title: Re: PLUTO POLARITY POINT
Post by: jana on Feb 16, 2010, 02:33 PM
Hi Jana,

  Yes ....................

 Rad

I was afraid of that...kidding....thanks :D

Jana