School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Louie on Mar 15, 2010, 07:54 PM



Title: Septile Aspect
Post by: Louie on Mar 15, 2010, 07:54 PM
I would like some clarification, if possible, on the EA perspective of the septile series of aspects. All of the EA material that I have read designates the Septile as a non-stressful aspect. Most of the material that I have come across on this particular aspect (and there isnt much out there) designates the septile as a minor aspect but usually attaches the possibility of significant or fated type events with it.

Even the arc of the septile is interesting in that it will not divide evenly into 360 giving us an irrational number similar to Pi that keeps going on and on without working itself out. Neptune and Pluto have been in a septile aspect since late 1994 and will be doing this dance until around 2017 when they return to a sextile aspect. In Deva's new book under the septile description it states that " Action can be clear and consistent or sporadic and confused, depending on the planet aspect to Pluto". Given that we are talking about Neptune, I would guess that initiated actions on the evolutionary impulse would be sporadic and confused?

Looking for some guidance here as I am a little confused (Neptune) as to how to handle this aspect!


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 15, 2010, 11:54 PM
Hi Louie,

I don't have an answer. But your post is a nice synchronsity. Just moment before I logged on to this site- I was watching a George Harrison youtube "govinda jaya jaya" in which there appears many images of Krishna. In one image, he is standing in front of a 7 petaled plant. I noticed that and found it pretty cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9-9I7bL3gg&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9-9I7bL3gg&NR=1)

I look forward to learning more about this aspect- I am truly mystified and inspired by the very idea of the septile. Thanks for your question.

Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Bradley J on Mar 19, 2010, 03:53 PM
Hi Louie,
Nor do I have the answer for your question specifically.  I wanted to add that the interpretation of this neptune pluto waxing sextile should be relative to several factors:
1.  1398 was the first neptune pluto conjunction in gemini
2.  1892-3 was the most recent neptune pluto conjunction, of which this point is waxing from(also in gemini)
3.  What we see in this neptune pluto cycle, relative to the close pass of pluto to the sun at the specific time when neptune and pluto are waxing produced a series of a.  the first waxing septile period  b. the first waxing sextile period  c.  the second waxing septile period and d. the second waxing sextile period.

So, the key to understanding how to approach answering this question is relative to understanding specifically what has been happening relative to a. human collective evolution  b. the evolution of all life on the planet  at the "seed times" of each of the proceeding neptune pluto conjunctions.

Relative to our collective evolutionary intentions, what "special destinies" are we living out right now?
Perhaps this is the foundation of understanding the window in which certain "seed people" are right now living and assisting the the collective discovery of what ultimate truth really means.

Just some thoughts on this. 
Blessings,
Bradley


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Louie on Mar 19, 2010, 07:18 PM
Thank you Ari and Bradley for responding to my first post here on EA! I have been lurking in the shadows here for quite some time and am pretty familiar with everyone through reading and rereading your posts!

In response to your post Bradley, I guess a good starting point would be the most recent conjunction of Neptune and Pluto of 1892-1893 in Gemini. I guess the best examples of "seed individuals" for this particular conjunction for our purposes would be Yogananda and Dane Rudyhar. I believe these two spoke (Gemini) of eliminating barriers (Pluto/Neptune) of all types whether they be Cultural, Nationalistic or even Galactic. Not a bad idea if I may say so myself!

"If you contact God within yourself, you will know that He is in everyone, that He has become the children of all races. Then you cannot be an enemy to anyone. If the whole world could love with that universal love, there would be no need for men to arm themselves against one another. By our own Christlike example we must bring unity among all religions, all nations, all races."

— Paramahansa Yogananda in Man’s Eternal Quest

The 1937-1940 period of exact Neptune-Pluto septiles brought fascism, brutality, and world war. Now, 70 years later, we have the same astrological aspect. Starting with the events of September 11, 2001, we are in another period of "global war" and blatant propaganda, with extreme polarization on many levels. It would seem humanity is learning (Gemini) this Universal Truth (Neptune) the hard way (Pluto).
 


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Stacie on Mar 20, 2010, 05:55 PM
In septiles, the involvment of fate will typically be linked with 'y's in the road'...in other words, in the course of developing the intention, there will be certain points where the path will present two different options..one can go this way or one can go that way..both directions will often appear equally valid in terms of how to go forward.  Key word is 'appear'.  One of the paths is meant to be taken, the other is not.  If one attempts to take the wrong path, fate will then come into play by presenting some event, circumstance, message, etc. in order to prevent one from straying too far from the correct path that is meant to be taken. The phase in which the septile is occurring will supply further detail about the nature of the process. 

Stacie


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Stacie on Mar 20, 2010, 05:57 PM
P.S.  Welcome to the community, Louie!  Glad you have started posting.

God Bless
Stacie


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 21, 2010, 01:14 PM
Hi Stacie- so I'm trying to connect the evolutionary meant of the septile to the nature of it's mathematics. For me, that helps me grock the essence more.

Would it be accurate to say that just as the septile as a geometry that has no ending- going on forever on it's own accord- and thus can not be perfectly measured. A soul working with that aspect is integrating something that cannot be exacted.

So to me, it looks like the process is meant to unfold itself, and it will unfold itself, by itself no matter what one does. At most, the imperitive it seems is to follow fate. Is this accurate?


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Louie on Mar 21, 2010, 07:53 PM
Ari:

     I am still trying to process Stacie's post in my own head, so I am not sure how I feel about it in total though I do believe "choice" to be a part of the process. Maybe the mathematical correlation you are looking for is the inability to make a choice which would be very Libran and also happen to represent the 7th house of the Zodiac. Being that we are talking about the 7th Harmonic, it would seem to be appropos?

     The Semi-square aspect in Deva's book talks about "competing desires to generate more and new experiences and the need to consolidate, internalize and and establish personal meaning within these experiences. Balancing (Libra) these two desires would serve to create a positive expression of this aspect."

     What if we are generating a bunch of experiences that go on and on without going through the work of establishing any sort of personal meaning? The equation would be at a complete imbalance and meaninglessness would take over making any choice really hard to undertake.

     This then might lead to the withdrawl and isolation from the external environment talked about under the Sextile aspect. This withdrawl and inner contemplation would lead to an understanding of the meaning of our existance.

     Not sure if this makes any sense but I appreciate your continued posts under this particular topic!

Louie


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Deva on Mar 22, 2010, 08:27 AM
Hi, I wanted to add my input about the phases. I will let Stacie answer about her post, but yes there are fated events in the Septile aspect that occur in order to keep us "on track" with the current evolutionary intentions.
     In terms of what you are describing, Louie, I would answer that each phase can be correlated to a specific archetype (Aries, Taurus, Gemini, etc). This is what made learning these phases/aspects easier for me. The New phase is an Aries Phase (self-discovery-initiation of actions in order for for self-discovery to occur. In this phase we learn through action and reaction). The Crescent Phase is a Taurus phase in which the evolutionary intention started at the new phase conjunction must be rooted, so to speak, or consolidated through the act of internalization and also withdrawal. The person must now "slow down" in order to establish the evolutionary purpose/intention from within him or herself (give it personal meaning). The semi-square is the transitional aspect from the new phase into the Crescent phase which creates the tension/stress within this aspect (the person does not want to slow down, or to feel restricted in  the context of the freedom to initiate actions, yet this is what the evolutionary intention now requires). Let me know if this is unclear, or does not really answer your question.
Thanks for posting!
Deva


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Elen on Mar 22, 2010, 05:40 PM
In septiles, the involvment of fate will typically be linked with 'y's in the road'...in other words, in the course of developing the intention, there will be certain points where the path will present two different options..one can go this way or one can go that way..both directions will often appear equally valid in terms of how to go forward.  Key word is 'appear'.  One of the paths is meant to be taken, the other is not.  If one attempts to take the wrong path, fate will then come into play by presenting some event, circumstance, message, etc. in order to prevent one from straying too far from the correct path that is meant to be taken. The phase in which the septile is occurring will supply further detail about the nature of the process. 

Stacie

Hi Stacie,

Your response makes perfect sense and is comforting to me on a personal level.  However, on the collective level, in thinking about 9/11 and the US counter-response, it's a little disturbing.  Fate, it would seem, decided on war.....?

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Stacie on Mar 23, 2010, 07:17 AM
Hi Ari,

It is true that when something is fated it will occur no matter what one does.  However, the role of fate and parameters therein is a relative phenomenon.  In the context of septiles, fate is operating with a specific focus to keep the soul aligned with the original intention reflected in the planets, relative to the phase those planets are in.  It is up to us to make the choice to do the work in the first place, and to follow through with the necessary effort to actualize the intention.  The dynamic of fate will be generating the necessary signposts, redirectors, motivators, etc. when they are needed.  If we are inwardly attuned to our soul's evolutionary intentions, whether this is totally conscious or not, we will tend to embrace or intuitively 'get the point' of what's being generated through the hand of fate and be more ready to cooperate with it.  If we are inwardly resisting our soul's intentions, there is the potential of trying to ignore the signposts and/or denying the predetermined parameters of what we can and can't do, essentially equalling a choice to do things the hard way.  I'll be back to answer your question Ellen..

Stacie


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Dhyana on Mar 25, 2010, 03:59 AM
One quick question--- is the Septile similar or the same as the Yod?

Thank You
Dhyana


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Gonzalo on Mar 25, 2010, 10:11 AM
Hi Dhyana,

The septile aspect comes from division of the circle by 7 ....

The Yod or "finger of God" aspect pattern involves 3 planets or points, two of them are linked by a sextile and form inconjuncts to the third one ....  thus three aspects are involved: two inconjuncts and one sextile .... given that inconjuncts link signs which are not connected neither by element, polarity (yin-yang) or modality or nature (cardinal, fixed, mutable) they correlate with crisis and/or need to adjust  ....  thus, the Yod is also associated with dynamics involving crisis ... an example of a natural Yod is the relation between Aries / Virgo / Scorpio ....

God Bless,

Gonzalo.


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Dhyana on Mar 25, 2010, 03:36 PM
Thank you Gonzalo.  I guess i was confusing "sextle" and "septile" simply bc the words look so similar.

Much appreciated,
Dhyana


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Louie on Mar 25, 2010, 06:55 PM
Ellen:

     I have been pondering Stacie's post over the past couple of days and trying to relate it to my own past experiences.....I have a number of these septiles in my own chart, hence, my own selfish reasons for wanting to get to the bottom of the what they symbolize.

     I do believe the United States was at a fork in the road as far as its response to the events of September 11th. I remember thinking at the time that a wonderful opportunity existed for the world to unite in our shared humanity as so many countries around the world offered their support and prayers. To this day, I wonder how things might be different if this country chose the path of peace and utilized the "goodwill" of the day to break down the barriers that exist amongst nations. I do believe this is the higher path symolized by the original conjunction of Pluto and Neptune in Gemini.

     Unfortunately, the leadership at the time chose the alternative path of lies, violence and destruction. The question in my mind is what is going to get us off the current violent path and back on the peaceful track of engagement?


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Elen on Mar 26, 2010, 01:38 PM
Ellen:

     I have been pondering Stacie's post over the past couple of days and trying to relate it to my own past experiences.....I have a number of these septiles in my own chart, hence, my own selfish reasons for wanting to get to the bottom of the what they symbolize.

     I do believe the United States was at a fork in the road as far as its response to the events of September 11th. I remember thinking at the time that a wonderful opportunity existed for the world to unite in our shared humanity as so many countries around the world offered their support and prayers. To this day, I wonder how things might be different if this country chose the path of peace and utilized the "goodwill" of the day to break down the barriers that exist amongst nations. I do believe this is the higher path symolized by the original conjunction of Pluto and Neptune in Gemini.

     Unfortunately, the leadership at the time chose the alternative path of lies, violence and destruction. The question in my mind is what is going to get us off the current violent path and back on the peaceful track of engagement?

Hi Louie,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  Yes, I agree about the higher path and I remember feeling so profoundly saddened and disappointed and outraged by the path our country chose.  I hope Stacie answers in more depth re: my post, as I think she would have some good insights with regard to your question.  My own thinking is that change comes one person at a time through inner healing work.  Yet at the same time, there is a need for enlightened leadership.  In democracies, we elect the leadership, so the greater the healing within each of us, the better chance for recognizing separating strategies and saying no to them.  

All for now,
Ellen


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Rad on Mar 26, 2010, 02:08 PM
Hi,

 If you remember at that time Gore was actually elected in your country by popular vote. And it was only through the your U.S. "Supreme" Court, which was and is Republican based for the most part, that they then installed Bush as your president. In so doing they invented legal justifications that haf no precedent at all. In fact, they said the actual reasoning that they used to justify the unjustifiable could not be used as any precedent for any future cases of like mind. This is a perfect example of the 'y' in the road that Stacie speaks of, and the consequences of a choice made at that juncture. Just think how different not only the reality would have been in your country, indeed the world, if in fact Gore was 'allowed' to be your president versus Bush.

Rad


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Stacie on Mar 30, 2010, 03:57 AM
Hi Ellen,

I'm sorry for the delay.  Hard drive failed along with a couple other things needing attention. 

Yes, I do have an in-depth response for you on the question you raised about the relationship of fate and the Iraq War.  My brain has already gone to bed without me so I will post this at some point tomorrow.   

I'll say briefly though that I don't see the war in Iraq being an outcome of fate.  To me this was a conscious, premeditated choice.  Fate on the other hand is not something we can really plan, calculate or anticipate in any specific way--it pretty much coordinates it's own show.  Certain people within the Bush administration have been talking about invading Iraq years before 9/11.  In reality, the war in Iraq has zero connection to 9/11..zero...meaning the invasion was no counter-response at all.

I'll share an example tomorrow that connects to the Iraq war that illustrates the septile dynamic playing out.  I'll also be posting a chart for the pluto/neptune conjunction back from 1892 so we can reference our current transiting septile back to the original intentions of the cycle when it was initiated. 

God Bless,

Stacie


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Elen on Mar 30, 2010, 06:55 PM
Hi Ellen,

I'm sorry for the delay.  Hard drive failed along with a couple other things needing attention. 

Yes, I do have an in-depth response for you on the question you raised about the relationship of fate and the Iraq War.  My brain has already gone to bed without me so I will post this at some point tomorrow.   

I'll say briefly though that I don't see the war in Iraq being an outcome of fate.  To me this was a conscious, premeditated choice.  Fate on the other hand is not something we can really plan, calculate or anticipate in any specific way--it pretty much coordinates it's own show.  Certain people within the Bush administration have been talking about invading Iraq years before 9/11.  In reality, the war in Iraq has zero connection to 9/11..zero...meaning the invasion was no counter-response at all.

I'll share an example tomorrow that connects to the Iraq war that illustrates the septile dynamic playing out.  I'll also be posting a chart for the pluto/neptune conjunction back from 1892 so we can reference our current transiting septile back to the original intentions of the cycle when it was initiated. 

God Bless,

Stacie

Thank you, Stacie.  I'm very much looking forward to your post.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 31, 2010, 03:47 AM
Hi Stacy,

Quote
Hi Ari,

It is true that when something is fated it will occur no matter what one does.  However, the role of fate and parameters therein is a relative phenomenon.  In the context of septiles, fate is operating with a specific focus to keep the soul aligned with the original intention reflected in the planets, relative to the phase those planets are in.  It is up to us to make the choice to do the work in the first place, and to follow through with the necessary effort to actualize the intention.  The dynamic of fate will be generating the necessary signposts, redirectors, motivators, etc. when they are needed.  If we are inwardly attuned to our soul's evolutionary intentions, whether this is totally conscious or not, we will tend to embrace or intuitively 'get the point' of what's being generated through the hand of fate and be more ready to cooperate with it.  If we are inwardly resisting our soul's intentions, there is the potential of trying to ignore the signposts and/or denying the predetermined parameters of what we can and can't do, essentially equalling a choice to do things the hard way.  I'll be back to answer your question Ellen..

Stacie

Thank you, that was very clear and helpful. I look forward to your inclusion of some chart examples!

Hi Rad,

Quote
Hi,

 If you remember at that time Gore was actually elected in your country by popular vote. And it was only through the your U.S. "Supreme" Court, which was and is Republican based for the most part, that they then installed Bush as your president. In so doing they invented legal justifications that haf no precedent at all. In fact, they said the actual reasoning that they used to justify the unjustifiable could not be used as any precedent for any future cases of like mind. This is a perfect example of the 'y' in the road that Stacie speaks of, and the consequences of a choice made at that juncture. Just think how different not only the reality would have been in your country, indeed the world, if in fact Gore was 'allowed' to be your president versus Bush.

Rad

1. Are you referring to Jan 2001, when bush was ruled to be the next president? Is the septile you refer to the same one we are about to explore: Pluto Neptune?

2. During that time- since the end of Dec 2000 till the end of January, Saturn in Taurus was stationing direct in a practically EXACT septile with the NN in Cancer. That north node was also conjunct the United States natal Sun. (If a 2 degree orb is valid for septiles, the United States Sun was also being septiled by transiting Saturn.) How does that fit into the picture?

3. What is the orb ea uses for a septile?

4. In the case of the 2000 elections absurdities, what is the fate that was destined to manifest as indicated by whatever septile(s) you are referring to? And in the end, how did that fate manifest itself, regardless of the choices that were made?

Thank you very much.
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Septile Aspect
Post by: Rad on Mar 31, 2010, 01:18 PM
HI Ari,

"1. Are you referring to Jan 2001, when bush was ruled to be the next president? Is the septile you refer to the same one we are about to explore: Pluto Neptune?"

**************************************************************************

The chart I looked at was the USA natal chart, and the transits taking place at the time of the actual election in November, 2000. And, yes, the Neptune/ Pluto transits septile. In USA chart that then places the Neptune transit on the USA S.Node in Aquarius in the 9th. It is also inconjuncting the 2nd House Venus and Jupiter. The Pluto is in the 7th and opposed natal Uranus in the 1st, and inconjuncting the Sun in the 2nd.  The Moon was also in Aquarius on that day conjunct the USA natal Moon, and it's NATAL LUCIFER WHICH IS CONJUNCT THE USA'S MOON IN THE 10TH. The transiting Nodes had just shifted into the USA's 8th House, S.Node, and 2nd House, N.Node.

*****************************************************************************

2. During that time- since the end of Dec 2000 till the end of January, Saturn in Taurus was stationing direct in a practically EXACT septile with the NN in Cancer. That north node was also conjunct the United States natal Sun. (If a 2 degree orb is valid for septiles, the United States Sun was also being septiled by transiting Saturn.) How does that fit into the picture?

**************************************************************************

All these symbols combined correlate to the actual reality of what had been, and continues to be, the progressive takeover of the USA's reality by the corporations. And that started with the deregulation of the financial industry, and Wall Street. It is this underlying reality that then dictated, to me, the 'fate' of the Pluto septile Neptune aspect that manifested when the U.S. Supreme Court not only violated it's own traditions and procedures, but then invented legal justifications for the decision to install Bush. This, to me, reflects the corruption of of the U.S. Supreme Court that is but a symptom of the almost total corruption that has taken place in the U.S.A. And the root of the corruption is the American form, corporate form, of capitalism. So the Neptune transit on the U.S.A S.Node in the 9th reflects that court decision that was defined by the 'needs' of the corporate reality: the Pluto transit in the 7th. The transiting Nodes of course reflect this corporate reality, and the corruption therein.

**************************************************************************

3. What is the orb ea uses for a septile?

*************************************************************************

I personally use 3 degrees. I know Wolf used 2 degrees.

*************************************************************************

4. In the case of the 2000 elections absurdities, what is the fate that was destined to manifest as indicated by whatever septile(s) you are referring to? And in the end, how did that fate manifest itself, regardless of the choices that were made?

**************************************************************************

The 'fate' was determined by choices that had been made prior to the actual election. The root in those prior choices all revolved around deregulating the financial industry, and Wall street. That root issue, to me, is the cause of everything that else that has happened in the USA including the utter corruption of your media. Remember the media's role in helping Bush get installed. Remember how they treated Gore versus Bush in the run up to the election. I remember reading that 75% of all media stories about Bush were positive, and 75% of all stories about Gore were negative. This reflects the corruption of the media because the corporations who own your media of course hire the soulless goons that will do their bidding. So the 'fated' event, to me, came down to the essential role that the Supreme Court played in acting out the agenda of the corporations. And that then set in motion an entirely different reality: the difference betwee the reality that would have occurred if Gore had been your president versus Bush.

 Look at the natal Pluto in the USA's natal chart in the 9th which is opposed by it's Mercury retrograde in Cancer in the 3rd. This is not only a perfect symbol for the 'corporate media' but also the propaganda that is issues on behalf of the corporations. Then look at the ruler of the Mercury: the Moon in Aquarius in the 10 WHICH IS CONJUNCT LUCIFER. Not to much more needs to be said about that. It should speak for itself.



 Rad