School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: jamo on Apr 02, 2009, 11:21 AM



Title: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: jamo on Apr 02, 2009, 11:21 AM
Hello All,

I have a question in regards to retrograde planets.

A person with many retrograde planets in aspect to Pluto - Can they appear to be moving through several stages of evolution in one life as they resolve issues around retrograde planets? I have counseled clients with many retrograde planets over a period of time and have found that they appear to make great "evolutionary leaps" as retrograde issues resolve.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Deva on Apr 03, 2009, 08:43 AM
Hi, great question about rx planets. What I know is that retorgrade is an archetype within itself. In other words, when any planet is rx is reflects a specific evolutionary/karmic dynamic within the Soul that conditions how that planetary function will be expresses/acted out. In the Pluto material it states that rx symbolizes that the specific areas within consciousness indicated by the house and sign position of the planet that is rx is being relived, or repeated, in order to be fully resolved. There is an individuated impulse reflected by the rx position. The planetary function must be given an individualized application and meaning independant of cultural/mainstream society. In other words, if I have Venus rx I must define FOR MYSELF the meaning and values that I have for any relationship. In fact, those that have Venus rx typically cannot relate to the traditional/mainstream types of relationships and tend to withdraw within themselves (Taurus co-rulership of Venus) in order to accomplish the individuation process that must occur from an evolutionary standpoint. They are defined through the Taraus side of Venus, not the Libra side (this is from Pluto vol 2).  The point within this is that certain key situations must be relived, or re-experinced before they can be resolved. Most commonly the individuation process indicated by the rx planet has not been fully accomplished, and that is why the Soul will set up a life circumsatnce of re-living certain expereinces. Those with Venus rx will attract key people with whom there is "unfinished buinsness" for example untill the person resolves the necessary dynamics reflected by the house and sign of Venus RX. When these issues are resolved then, yes, the Soul can grow by leaps and bounds. The analogy that is used in the Pluto material is peeling away at the layers of an onion to arrive at its core. As such, those that resolve the neccesarry issues related to a planet that is RX will feel a deep sense of being realsed from those issues (coming into alignment with his or her natural individuality/identity in the context of "peeling away at the onion."   
I hope this helps.
Deva


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Rad on Apr 03, 2009, 11:50 AM
Hi Jamo,
 I would only add that the retrograde archetype does indeed accelerate a Soul's evolution no matter what evolutionary condition they have evolved too, even in the consensus state, because the archetype of retrograde correlates to 'individuation' as Carl Jung used that word: to individuate from any external conditioning factor that attempts to define for an individual how any given phenomena, as in Deva's example about relationships, is 'meant' to be defined and lived out. The retrograde archetype is meant to induce a natural rebellion from those external conditioning pressures wherever they come from. And the intent of the rebellion is to arrive at a place of individuation. As a result it accelerates the evolutionary pace of the Soul by way of the planets that are retrograde in their birth charts.

Rad


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Rad on Apr 04, 2009, 10:27 AM
"In the Pluto material it states that rx symbolizes that the specific areas within consciousness indicated by the house and sign position of the planet that is rx is being relived, or repeated, in order to be fully resolved."

And to clarify - that which is to be resolved for any Rx planet will be in relation to the (moon's) south node dynamics and will ultimately move a person towards gaining the understanding and experience of the north node when resolved? (Unless of course the north node is not applying in the chart.) In other words, for some reason individuation is necessary for evolution to continue.

Jamo

Hi Jamo,
  No, that is not the way to understand it. The entire EA paradigm of natal Pluto, the location of the S.Node of the Moon, the location of it's own planetary ruler by house, sign, and aspects to other planets, Pluto's polarity point, the location of the N.Node of the Moon by it's own house and sign, and the location of it's planetary ruler by it's own house, sign, and  aspects to it correlates the the primary evolutionary / karmic axis, the bottom line, for the Soul's ongoing evolution from life to life for any of us. It's like a foundation upon which a house is built. Relative to that foundation the REST of the entire birth chart, including retrograde planets, is then properly  understood relative to THAT CONTEXT. Everything else is referred to that context, that primary evolutionary/ karmic axis.
  To understand the totality of a retrograde planet, or planets, in terms of not only the individuation process that accelerates the Soul's evolution, but also that which is being relived, r=reliving, for karmic and evolutionary reasons, which are themselves DETERMINED relative to the  underlying primary evolutionary/ karmic axis, one first focuses on the actual nature of the planet(s) that are retrograde, the sign and house location of that natal planet that is retrograde, the location by sign/ house that that planet naturally rules, i.e. Venus naturally rules Libra and Taurus, aspects to that planet that is retrograde because those archetypal dynamics of other planets that are aspecting the retrograde planet all contribute to the total context of that which is being relived and individuated, and, lastly, the location by house and sign of the planetary nodes of the planet(s) that are retrograde.
  Understanding and integrating the totality of this will then lead the EA astrologer to a comprehensive understanding of the retrograde planet(s) for any Soul's individual context that, again, is always established by understanding the main evolutionary/ karmic foundation of each birth chart as symbolized by the EA paradigm of Pluto, it's polarity point, the location of the N. and S.Nodes of the Moon, and the location of their planetary rulers.

Rad


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Apr 04, 2009, 03:23 PM
In other words, for some reason individuation is necessary for evolution to continue.
Jamo

Hi Jamo

I would add that, in ALL Souls, not just those with retrogrades, individuation is necessary for evolution to continue. 

The process of evolution IS the progressive individuation of the Soul, until that Soul finally realizes in full who it truly is, not intellectually but experientially.  Until then the individuation process is the progressive stripping away of all conditioned senses of "Me" that have accumulated over many lifetimes, until finally all that's left is the experience of the true "Me".  That process takes many lives.

The difference in a chart with retrogrades is the individuation process is heightened, emphasized - because there has been resistance to that process in the past.   So the Soul through retrograde has set up conditions that will force it to emphasize its own individuation, as a way of overcoming its own conditioned resistance to that process.  Other symbols emphasizing the individuation process include a lot of 11th house or Aquarius, Uranus aspecting many planets, etc.


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Apr 07, 2009, 06:56 PM
Hi

In response to "I think it's important that we don't conflate the retrograde archetype with the Pluto Archetype", I quote from an old lecture Jeffrey gave on the phenomena of retrograde.  This is from the section on Pluto retrograde

Quote
Dissatisfaction is a Plutonian experience.  Dissatisfaction facilitates evolutionary need.  Retrograde emphasizes the sense of dis¬satisfaction, which then facilitates the evolutionary needs.  When a person says, "There is something else possible".  No matter what evolutionary level is.

This next quote comes from the introduction to the whole lecture, referring to retrograde itself - all planets - the phenomena itself:

Quote
Retrograde function is non-static, never rests, is in a perpetual, cyclical state of growing, is always dissatisfied.

If dissatisfaction is a Plutonian experience, and the retrograde function is always dissatisfied, doesn't that make the retrograde function inherently Plutonian? 

And Pluto does correlates with resistance. The more retrograde planets, the more resistance.  That is why it is generally difficult for a retrograde personality (defined by Jeffrey as someone with 4 or more retrograde planets) to make the necessary changes, while at the same time there is a deep knowing of the NECESSITY of making those changes.  The soul has intentionally painted itself into a corner.

In response to "lack of resources", "early death", etc. why were those experiences necessary in the first place?  They did not come out of the blue.


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Apr 08, 2009, 02:30 AM
Quote
I still don't see that repeating circumstances/retrograde arise because of resistance only and not simply because of evolutionary necessity.

Hi

Nowhere in what I wrote did I say that retrograde arises because of resistance only.  Retrograde is a need to review/redo/renew.  Why?  Because things need to change to allow evolution to proceed. 

Getting killed prematurely in a life is not by itself going to be the sole cause of a retrograde.  What is the measuring scale used to determine that a life ending was premature?  We humans decide what is supposedly normal and compare our lifespan against those "normal" standards. But these are human standards - 100 years ago you lived til 40 or 50, that's it, you expected you'd be dead by then - today if someone dies at that age we say they died so young.  These standards have nothing to do with the reality of the Soul.  No Soul can leave its body before its appropriate time, and no Soul can stay in its body longer than its appropriate time.  So how can anyone die prematurely?  They can only die before the time they as person had expected to live until, denied the life experiences they had hoped to have, and so will exhibit RESISTANCE to this idea of their life ending before their human personality was ready for it to end.

Pluto symbolizes our Soul.  Our Soul is the root principle/reason/cause/core of why we are all here in the first place.  Pluto equates with resistance.  This means, at our core every one of us has an inherent resistance.  Anything that is at a core permeates through everything that manifests out of that core.

The whole process is learning to accept that inherent resistance and not be completely limited and defined by it.  None the less it rears its head at every step forward.  We KNOW in our brains there is so much more yet emotionally we still cling to our old limited views of self.  This is built into the human condition.  So I am not clear on how resistance can be separated from Evolutionary Necessity or individuation or retrograde.  Any more than you can separate smoke from fire. It is an inherent part of how we are wired.  Just as we are also wired with the desire to understand who and what we are and where we came from - that is the evolutionary pull forward.

By the way, re: Evolutionary Necessity.  Words mean something.  Among the dictionary definitions of necessity are "pressure of circumstance", "impossibility of a contrary order or condition", "an urgent need or desire", "in such a way that it cannot be otherwise".  I would say in many many cases the emotional response to experiences of that nature would be resistance, at least initially. 


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Rad on Apr 08, 2009, 09:49 AM
Hi Steve and Jaro,
 Great discussion  you are having. So let's now ask the obvious question: What is the cause of resistance with the Soul ? And resistance to what ? A related question would be: Is it possible for any Soul to evolve beyond the psychology of resistance, and, if so, what the cause of that would be ?

 Rad


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: ari moshe on Apr 09, 2009, 03:08 PM
this so so great!

is it accurate to state that the soul's only function is desire- that the soul is desireous-ness itself?
meaning resistance only happens on the level of identity?


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: birdwhistler on Apr 09, 2009, 03:21 PM
Hi All,

There is a natural resistance in the Soul to change, change threatens its deepest security patterns defined by the past, that is known, change represents the future, the unknown. The Soul, at some evolutionary point, tires of the same patterns and begins a process of making the necessary choices different from the choices of the past. Everything begins with desire, from there it takes courage and faith to implement change.

Peace, Bird


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: ari moshe on Apr 10, 2009, 02:58 AM
it's hard for me to understand that philosophically.
does the soul really resist change? is it at all identified with the security of the past?

there's always an element of awareness that is present whenever i do something. who or what is that awareness? is it my soul?

i hope this isn't already too divergent from the initial intent of this thread.



Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: yarrow8 on Apr 10, 2009, 11:22 AM
Hi Bird,

I see what you're saying here-it's Newton's First Law...inertia or the natural resistance (gravity) to an object beginning a movement. This would translate on an emotional level to the Soul as fear (inertia or natural resistance) to beginning something new (the new movement). As Newton states, there will always be that level of inertia (resistance) to overcome when an object begins to move after being stationary so that would apply to going beyond a certain limitation and then needing to stabilize. The necessary stabilization would be the natural place of inertia that generates resistance when the Soul attempts to go beyond another limitation. Natural law is a thing of beauty!

Peace,
Yarrow


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Rad on Apr 10, 2009, 11:27 AM
it's hard for me to understand that philosophically.
does the soul really resist change? is it at all identified with the security of the past?

there's always an element of awareness that is present whenever i do something. who or what is that awareness? is it my soul?

i hope this isn't already too divergent from the initial intent of this thread.



Hi Ari,
  The Soul is that which is 'aware' in any of us. Without the Soul there can be no ego that reflects the individual Soul in the first place. The ego in each of us is of course aware, but that awareness is, relatively speaking, limited. The limitations themselves are relative to the degree of evolution within the Soul itself.
  The Soul creates egocentric structures in each life that is orientated to phenomenal reality is such a way that reflects the ongoing evolutionary intentions, desires, of the Soul. The resistance to change is rooted in the need for security where security is a function of being self-consistent. Self consistency is a function of the past that defines each present moment. The 'future' is an 'unknown' from the point of view of the past equaling the present 'moment'. As such it is inherently perceived by the Soul as something insecure because it is not a known fact. As a result of this most Souls then 'project' their past into the future in order to feel secure: self-consistent. As a result this is why most Soul's keep repeating their pasts over and over, making only minimal change in each life in order to grow at all: evolve.
  And yet all Souls must evolve. And they evolve as a function of desire for it is the dual desire nature of the Soul, as created by God/ess, that dictates this evolution. As a result we then have a 'future' because of the determinant of evolution: the dual desires inherent to all Souls.
  As Souls naturally evolve they do come to a place in which their sense of personal identification is no longer within the ego's that they create from life to life. Rather the Soul comes to a place where the sense of personal identification is that with which created the Souls in the first place: God/ess. Once this happens the entire sense of what constitutes security utterly changes. And it changes to being in the hands of it's origin: God/ess. Once this happens then the 'resistance' to change, to evolve, simply ends.

 Rad


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Lesley on Apr 10, 2009, 11:53 AM
Alas, it is identification with the security of the past that itself necessitates incarnation in the first place, is my own understanding of the concept.


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Stacie on Apr 10, 2009, 01:46 PM
The core cause of resistance in the soul is insecurity.  What is being resisted is the loss of established parameters of who the soul has come to know itself to be, and within that self-definition, where it’s power ends and begins.

These known parameters constitute self-consistency.  Self-consistency is a function of the past and is the core basis of security for the soul.  The reason this is equaling core security is because its where the soul has perceived the height of its power, even though the height of that power has only gone only so far.  The problem that occurs as the soul reaches these limitations in how far its own power extends, is that the active evolutionary desires within the soul continue to churn and persist..the desires ‘don’t care’ if the soul has reached the limits of its power--they still demand actualization (or exhaustion)!  This produces a very intense dilemma in the soul of needing to acquire more power in order for those unresolved desires to continue being fulfilled.  Meeting the limits of one’s power produces a view of having no power beyond that point.  From the point of view of the soul, the prospect of proceeding in these new untested directions can seem like a path that is requiring the soul to leave behind all its hard-earned power and embrace a diametrically opposed reality of having no power.  How many of us feel secure committing to a path like that? Of course when the soul willingly chooses to cooperate with such a path, the soul comes to find that it has not left its existing power behind, it has simply needed to discover new ways of applying it.  And the soul eventually comes to discover through a continuous state of becoming, VIA that new uncharted path, that those new ways of applying power have actually allowed the expansion of power that the soul was needing, to occur.  This enables the soul to resume fulfilling on the desires that it was unable to meet within the previous parameters. 

These antithetical orientations (resistance vs. cooperation toward the evolutionary impulse) come down to the dual desires that are responsible for driving the soul’s evolution..separating desire/returning desire..  Resistance to the evolutionary impulse correlates with the desire in the soul to stay separate from the Source which has created it.  Cooperation with the evolutionary impulse correlates with the desire in the soul to return and be reabsorbed back into that original Source.  The factor that determines which desire wins the empowerment of the soul is CHOICE.  The soul constantly has a choice before it about whether to resist or cooperate with the evolutionary impulse.  The condition of insecurity that generates instinctual resistance in the soul is a natural part of the evolutionary process, and thus it’s something to be viewed with an objective compassion.  Insecurity will find progressive resolution as the soul evolves and expands its consciousness to realize its actual divine identity.  If we consider the nature of divine reality in contrast to the nature of reality we find on places like Earth, we rapidly see WHY the evolutionary impulse functions in a way that it does, i.e., by requiring us to step into the unknown and seemingly leave our preexisting definitions and sources of power behind.  God’s reality is timeless and ever shifting form/manifestation..it is also absolutely defined by the principle of giving, sharing, and inclusion because God IS the collective in its ultimate totality..it has identity in every single part of the Creation.  the soul on the other hand, is striving to evolve from an illusive awareness of time/space/‘self’ reality into a conscious awareness of divine reality, and until that evolution ultimately occurs, it’s awareness is naturally oriented in relative degrees to a sense of separateness from everything else within the vastness of the cosmos, an essential aloneness within that sense of separateness, limited power at its disposal, linear structure of time, rigid definitions of structure and form, mortality, etc....which are the perceptions that create the ultimate basis of the soul’s insecurity. 

The soul CAN evolve beyond the condition of compulsive resistance that insecurity induces by consistently making the choices to cooperate with the evolutionary impulse and take the steps that are needed to embrace the unknown/undefined/unmanifested, to therein discover the cyclic expansions of its own power, identity, and awareness.  The more consistently choices are made to cooperate with this evolutionary impulse, the more familiar it becomes..the soul can begin to feel secure in the context of the unknowns and the undefined, because by immersing itself in this experience, the soul progressively strengthens its trust in the higher Source that is guiding it through these ‘unknowns’, and the also strengthens its trust in its own inner resources that the Source continues to bestow/adds upon the soul as it demonstrates sincere effort/self-determination in doing the best that it can.

The retrograde archetype fits into this by symbolizing the ongoing conscious development and realization of the intrinsic individuality that the Source has created in every soul.  In the course of developing functions within the soul’s consciousness, it reaches a point in that development where a natural intensification of gravity occurs, relative to having brought that function to a point of maturity relative to time/space/sociological orientation. After all, we are here on earth..and earth reality is governed by physical and sociological laws which emphasize defined structure, incremental time, collective order (necessitating a prominent percentage of conformity to given status quos in order for the stability of the system to be sustained over time).   The retrograde archetype generates an interior realignment, as Deva explained so well, that creates an awareness in the soul that it is in fact more than the widely accepted prototypes that the soul sees and experiences around it which constitute the norms put forth by society.  This is a uranian process which challenges the soul to retrace its steps back through the past in order to identify and innovate the aspects of itself that are blocking future growth due to a denial or suppression in expressing the soul’s unique individual nature in full and authentic way..beyond the status quos of the world.  This work will produce an inner liberation from the restrictions that these prevailing status quos have been imposing on the soul, and the focus then becomes about reintegrating the soul’s newly innovated individual qualities back into society.  This reintegration can have the effect of proving or demonstrating to society how its own outmoded status quos can be advanced without presenting an outright threat to the system, and how such advancement can support it’s own collective future growth.

I’m sorry this was long, darnit.

Stacie


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Stacie on Apr 10, 2009, 02:05 PM
whoops, i didn't see these recent responses before posting, so sorry for repeating what's already been said.  this was a valuable exercise nonetheless!  :)


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Deva on Apr 11, 2009, 09:18 AM
This is a great discussion. Thanks to everybody who has participated. Stacie, I really appriciate your insight. I wanted to add something about resistance in the context of the two antithetical desires within the Soul because we seem to have questions/insights into this matter. When the Soul has reached a limit evolutionary speaking, and inwardly feels that growth is needed yet that need is meet is fear and insecurity is can create a lot of trouble and pain because the evolutionary pressure to transform becomes overwhelming. The common probelm is that is limit, or the cause of the stagnation, is not consciously known by the Soul. in other words, the Soul is only aware of the probelm, and the overwhelimg feeling of not getting anywhere. This is extactly where the birth chart is so helpful. The overwheling desire to change and grow commonly has to reach a very intense point in order to induce the neccessary changes because of the high degree that emotional security is linked with the past ways of being/ with the past in general (i.e the need to be self-consistant). It is like an inner death, and the re-birth cannot be felt or integrated untill the death happens. This internal conflict reflects the dual desires within the Soul (one to return and one to seperate).  I like what you said, Stacie, about becoming stronger in the process of growing/changing, and embracing the insecurity and fear that comes up in order to move past it. We can break through patterns of resistance by understanding the process in this light, and help others do the same.  Anyway, hope this is not too digressive from the theme of retrogrades, but I felt that resisatnce is an important dynamic to discuss!
Deva


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Stacie on Apr 13, 2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks for taking the time to add these thoughts Deva...just the right words.  I'm 2 dendrites richer!  8)


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Jul 08, 2009, 05:16 AM
In response to "I think it's important that we don't conflate the retrograde archetype with the Pluto Archetype", I quote from an old lecture Jeffrey gave on the phenomena of retrograde.  This is from the section on Pluto retrograde

Quote
Dissatisfaction is a Plutonian experience.  Dissatisfaction facilitates evolutionary need.  Retrograde emphasizes the sense of dis¬satisfaction, which then facilitates the evolutionary needs.  When a person says, "There is something else possible".  No matter what evolutionary level is.


This next quote comes from the introduction to the whole lecture, referring to retrograde itself - all planets - the phenomena itself:

Quote
Retrograde function is non-static, never rests, is in a perpetual, cyclical state of growing, is always dissatisfied.


Steve,

  Would it be possible for you to post the old lecture Jeffrey gave on the phenomena of retrograde planets?

  I personally would really like to read/listen/view (?text/audio/video?) that lecture in its entirety, a feeling probably shared by all of the students coming to this site.

  If you are able to post that lecture, I thank you very very much!!

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Jul 08, 2009, 10:30 AM
Hi Stephen

The retrograde lecture is one that Jeffrey used to sell.  I'll first have to discuss with Deva whether its going to be offered for free or is something that will be sold.  (There are a number of class/workshop transcripts that used to be for sale.  I know its been discussed that they will again be offered for sale at some point.)


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: chuck h on Jul 08, 2009, 11:47 PM
What Steve said about the brain wanting, knowing what should be done to move forward, while hanging on to the past prevents it, hit a chord.  Every planet except Venus and Mars...plus Chiron is retrograde in my chart, which makes seven.  Even when I 'think' I am doing the right thing, it usually turns out 'wrong'.    Most of my choices seem to lead me away from Source, tho with all my heart I wish to go forward.  So maybe it's not simply that I an weak?   Is there any way out of the 'corner'?  Letting go of the need to try?

Thanks,
chuck


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Jul 09, 2009, 07:01 AM
Hi Stephen
The retrograde lecture is one that Jeffrey used to sell.  I'll first have to discuss with Deva whether its going to be offered for free or is something that will be sold.  (There are a number of class/workshop transcripts that used to be for sale.  I know its been discussed that they will again be offered for sale at some point.)

Hi Steve,

  Thanks for looking into that.  I noticed, in the beginning of JWG's 'Uranus' book, a listing of lectures/transcripts/audio/video, which of course I am interesting in reading/viewing/purchasing.  On the old message board, JWG mentions his own website (no longer active) and what was for sale on that site...lectures, videos and transcripts.  There are probably many students like me who will wish to read/view/listen to everything JWG ever produced, on our way to becoming functioning EA Counselers (and, for years afterward, as we fine-tune our skills/intuition through actual practice!  Subtlties are always uncovered upon multiple readings of diverse sources, in my opinion).

  Similar to the work of CG Jung, wherein the 'Collected Works of Jung' has long been published in multiple inclusive volumes, I was thinking the other day that every separate work created/produced by JWG should be archived, indexed and published, for easier access by those interested in the EA Paradigm.  The 'Collective Works of JWG' could have a Printed Section, an Audio Section, and a Video Section.  Additonally, the work that is now only audio could also have a transcript within the Printed Section of the Collected Works, and the work that is now only video could also have its audio additionally within the Audio Section of the Collected Works as well as a transcript within the Printed Section of the Collected Works.  (This type of coallation/indexing/transcribing usually comes down to adequate funding and sufficient dedication, of course! ;) )  Perhaps one day, a call could go out to all EA Practitioners concerning this, and those who have unique JWG information could then provide that information to help build the Collected Works Edition.  (Yes, I DO think too too much!! ;D )

  So..for my part, thanks very much for moving towards providing that information for purchase/download/review by the EA Community!!

  By the way, are the EA Conferences videotaped and archived for possible future release (for those who can't attend...even as a review for those who can)?  Will this 5th Annual Conference be recorded (audio or video) and eventually be provided for sale?  I am certain that if a professional (or not?) camera-operator was rented for the Conference, the sales on that conference would more than provide an adequate return on that particular investment...

Thanks alot Steve,
Blessings of God'dess,
Stephen


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Jul 09, 2009, 07:28 AM
What Steve said about the brain wanting, knowing what should be done to move forward, while hanging on to the past prevents it, hit a chord.  Every planet except Venus and Mars...plus Chiron is retrograde in my chart, which makes seven.  Even when I 'think' I am doing the right thing, it usually turns out 'wrong'.    Most of my choices seem to lead me away from Source, tho with all my heart I wish to go forward.  So maybe it's not simply that I an weak?   Is there any way out of the 'corner'?  Letting go of the need to try?
Thanks,
chuck

Chuck,

  I read this in Deva Green's EA book:
'Retrograde as an archetype or function within consciousness symbolizes that an acceleration of evolution must now occur.' pp.32

  Additionally, I remember reading (possibly also in her book), that having multiple retrograde planets within the chart is, in JWG's opinion, a signature of a Soul who had desired to attempt alot of Soul Evolution in this Incarnation, but that it would also have a corresponding resistance to that same evolutionary drive.  I believe the quote he used was that a person was then 'painting themselves into a corner'  Which, is exactly what you are stating!  (I will find and post the quote here when I am back near the books.)

  No, I don't recall if a resolution was presented for this dilemma, but if I come across it, I will let you know (I am as yet just a bookfed-EA-student-in-Training, with as yet no practical counseling history to draw upon).  I like you am curious to see what the 'old-timers' of this site have to say!

  However, this reminds me of something which I once read concerning calling upon Durga (an Incarnation of the Goddess Kali who is interested in spiritual advancement).  You should only call upon Durga when you REALLY are ready to move forward at all costs!...because She will answer your prayers, but most likely NOT in the way that you expect!  If you request to have more time for spiritual pursuits (awaken a spiritual fire in your Soul, so to speak), you might suddenly find yourself fired at work, and drive home to a blazing housefire!!  Now, you don't have a job or possessions to interfere with your spiritual pursuits (but, something as drastic as that might not have been your intention).  So, a drastic...and yet measured...response.

Take Care (keep on movin' on...),
and Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: chuck h on Jul 09, 2009, 01:05 PM
Hi Stephen!

Thank you so much for taking time to answer, and for the good information.  Yes, if you could give me the titles and Author/ess of those books so I can order, it would be great.


I'm thankful you added the paragraph about Durga.  Wow, this would really take courage, and make a person think very hard about just how much he/she wants to advance.  No half-way commitments here.  I will look on the net to find a suitable picture so I can visualize who I'm approaching.  This is exactly the information I needed.

So thank you again, Stephen
Blessings to you on your path,
chuck.


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Linda on Jul 09, 2009, 04:23 PM
Hello Moderators and Everyone:

Quote Deva:   "Retrograde as an archetype or function within consciousness symbolizes that an acceleration of evolution must now occur."

It seems a contradiction that on the one hand, the retrograde planet symbolizes an acceleration of evolution, and yet on the other hand, there is a corresponding resistance to that evolution.  

So how would this play out with my Retrograde Pluto in Leo (and Chuck's Rx Pluto in Leo)?

With Pluto symbolizing the evolution of the Soul, and retrogradation symbolizing an acceleration, yet resistance, of the soul purpose, does this mean that Chuck and I would be given opportunities to evolve in this lifetime, yet we would hold ourselves back because we wish to do things "in our own way", because we refuse to be pigeonholed?

How would this play out, specifically, using Pluto in Leo Rx as an example?  So, let's say I have a strong desire to express a special creative purpose in life - and the example I will use is "to write a book".  So this desire to express myself through writing a book is greatly accelerated - yet I resist writing the book.  Why would I resist?  How would I resist?  Some clear examples would greatly help me understand this dichotomy.  

Is it because I refuse to learn the Pluto in Leo lessons?  Does the resistance mean that I block myself from achieving this purpose by refusing to cooperate with others?  That others block me?  That the status quo does not support me?  Because I am too dominating or too self-centred?  Because I am unique and different?  What would be the patterns of resistance using the above example?

And since I am unique, different from, or not acceptable to the (stagnating, my perception) status quo, that this makes me try even harder, to push my individuality through, and this very struggle induces evolution to take place?  Is that how it works?  So not only do I evolve cataclysmically, but my retrogradation serves a higher purpose:  as the rebel, I can transform others, the greater whole.

I believe I am evolving at a very accelerated pace, especially in the last year (and Chuck too)...and perhaps this is due to the energies of the retrogradation being held back previously for so long and shored up...and now they are being released for creative/group purposes.

Hope this makes sense.

This discussion is very helpful - and I believe we are all making lots of progress learning the fundamentals of EA through this forum which greatly reduces confusion.  

My heartfelt appreciation!
Linda


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Jul 09, 2009, 06:11 PM
Hi

Jeffrey's teaching was that those with 4 or more retrograde planets are a retrograde-type personality.  Retrograde is the archetype of redo - review - renew.  Normally the energies of a planet are focused outward.  When retrograde, they are focused inward, back at the person, the gaze being inward.   This creates an introspective nature (not necessarily introverted, but introspective).

Pluto correlates with resistance.  When there are 4 or more retro planets, this demonstrates there has been a lot of resistance within that soul in the past towards fulfilling the evolutionary intentions.  The soul sometimes then comes in with a chart with a number of retro planets, as these force or accelerate the evolutionary intentions - the circumstances will appear in the life that will force that soul forward. 

The resistance to the forward movement will also still be present, thus there can be a real struggle within the Soul between its desire to evolve and its tendency to resist the evolutionary intentions.  This can result in the feeling of painting self into a corner where there is no way out other than to do what is intended.

Chuck, the more retrograde planets in the chart, the more resistance has occurred in the past.  Seven retro at times would not be a lot of fun as the two opposing forces to evolve and resistance to evolving would have quite a tug of war at times.   The intention is to bust the pattern of resistance open for once and for all, to release the log jam.  If the person finally "gets it" and starts cooperating with the evolutionary intentions, as a result of this pressure/intensity, the progress can be rapid.  If they continue with resistance as the primary response, the life may not be a lot of fun.

The retro function adds a uranian flavor to the planetary function - it is going to do what it does in its own unique way and not be so concerned with what others think about it. 


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: chuck h on Jul 09, 2009, 09:50 PM
Steve,

Linda and I share the same desire for understanding and spiritual growth.  The EA paradigm offers much illumination, and we want to grasp its full message.  But as newcomers, reading the more advanced exchanges of ideas leaves us wondering if we will ever gain the toehold necessary to advance.  I guess we are looking for a bridge between elementary school and college.  We keep missing the concreteness, the foundation (both of us Capricorn).  If the terms, and association of terms, were occasionally tied to their basic root concepts, maybe the connections would become more accessible.  If two plus two still equals 4 in the EA universe, we need to know, first, what one plus one equals (does that make sense?).

You are all sincere, caring people.  You have extended hands of friendship and help to us and I don't mean disrespect by this.  Maybe the intent of this forum is to exchange more advanced principles, but I have read where you welcome beginners, so I'm only asking that you lead us slowly, gently like babes eager to take our first steps on our own. 

What is this resistance?  Where does it come from, what is its purpose, and how do we get past it for accelerated soul evolution?  Do you mean becoming monk-like and letting go of all worldly thoughts, desires and possessions?  Is their a point where simply loving in every moment will open the gate?  I understand that resistance is needed for growth, but how do we recognize when the resistance is ready to let up?  Are there keys to unlock this mystery? There are rushes of pure joy and exhilaration at times.  Other times, self doubt...questioning everything.  How does one stop the doubt cycle?  Meditation?  I fall asleep.

My soul knows my heart is open.  If it wants to proceed, why doesn't it?  Is it a matter of karma to be worked off?  Once a heart is opened consciously, desiring to open others without thought for reward, what more can be done?

What are we missing?  What is the key?  Maybe, as Linda writes, some examples might help.  I will throw out some of my own aspects.  Maybe someone will notice something.  You spoke of Uranian influence...Uranus exactly conjuncts Mars in 7th.  sextiles within one-two degrees Pluto exactly conjunct NN in 9th, trines within one degree Neptune in 11th, inconjuncts Scorpio Moon in 12th within 2 degrees, inconjuncts Mercury within 3 degrees in 2nd, and trines Sun/SN wide, out-of sign conjunction (8 degrees) in 3rd.

It seems like with all those retrogrades, inconjuncts and Uranian contacts (and Pluto contacts)  that the answer can't be that I'm simply 'not ready' yet...especially with most of my life already lived,

Many here were so kindly helpful about my confusion over Pluto's polarity point as it conjuncts NN..And maybe I'm asking too much here, and not giving enough back, but it's hard to contribute until I understand.

Will someone let me know the best, simplest, foundational text available for the EA paradigm?  Need to start from scratch.

 

Steve, Linda and all, as always, the very best to you,
chuck


 





Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Jul 10, 2009, 12:43 AM
Chuck

Have you looked at the Essence of EA material (http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/essence-of-ea/evolution) on the school website?  Start there.  And if you have, after you read what I write here, I suggest you read it again.

The underlying root of everything is the dual desire nature contained within all Souls, as created by God/dess.   The one desire, to separate and know self as distinct and unique from all else, the other, to merge back from whence we came.   The root of resistance is all of the desires to separate that we all have within us.  The parts of self that want to separate are in a struggle of sorts with the parts that just want to merge back.  Because they don't want to surrender, give up their sense of individuality. And in essence, they are not supposed to - we have those desires for a reason - they are supposed to be there.  

But there are forces in life that are deeper than our individual wills and desires, and at times they back us into the corner - these are the workings of the Soul - "you will now change, ready or not, like it or not".  Pluto brings this in by simply removing the parts of the life that are holding us back.  Most of us do not experience this as pleasant, fun, or desired.  Until we learn, gradually, that like a bad tasting medicine that is actually good for us, its in our best interest to allow these changes to do their work.  That is, to let go when we know its time to let go.  

Until then there is no reason at all to let go.  Why should I?  Unless I see proof (Pluto) of the NEED to let go, what is the point?  Just because some spiritual books said that is what I'm supposed to do?   That is intellectual knowledge.  Intellectual knowledge does not move us - emotion, passion moves us.  When I feel backed into the corner, that is an emotion.  When I start seeing a way out of that corner, I will have an emotional reaction to that, and that emotion inspires me to take action, to a new way as a resolution to the long standing conditions.  

Until that point I am going to keep repeating the same old m.o.  And why?  Because another important principle that guides all humans is the equating of safety and security with what is KNOWN - because what is known makes me feel safe and secure. Even if it is dysfunctional - it is MY dysfunction - I know it well.  

The scariest thing in the world for most humans is NOT KNOWING - that feeling of not being in control, of not knowing what is going to happen, of being subject to events or inner states which I can not be in charge of.  And THAT is the root of resistance.  To boil it all down to the bottom line, I'm afraid I may DIE in the process.  And since the first order of business for all living things is to remain living - to survive - (followed by, to reproduce, so my species stays alive) - I have a natural aversion to that which causes me to feel I could possibly die.  This is a built-in biological instinct - all of what I just wrote relates to Taurus - the will to survive, to reproduce.

The polarity of Taurus is Scorpio - the Soul.  So the question becomes, WHO is surviving?  Who is in charge?   "me" (the person)?  the Soul?  

The spiritual path is the gradual transference of the center of gravity within each individual consciousness from complete identification with the name, body, gender, family, religion, culture as the sense of Who I Am, to increasing identification with the Soul as Who I Am.   That is the long path home.

From the perspective of the personality, letting go into the Soul feels like death, because the Soul is outside the boundaries of what most of us consciously identify with as Who I Am.  Most of us almost entirely self-identify as Ego/personality - body and name.  I was born in 19xx and I am going to die somewhere along the line.   The Soul was never born and never dies.  How many of us know that as EMOTIONAL reality - our moment to moment sense of Who I Am.  From that perspective I am not the ego at all - I am the Soul.  Yet emotionally I operate as if I am the ego.  The idea of letting go into identification with the Soul seems frightening, unknown, because it speaks to the death of the whole way I presently see myself - that fear of dying being a core part of the resistance.  

Yes or no - we passionately want this or that with all heart and mind - and we "create our own reality" and make it happen.  So exactly how long does it take before we start feeling that the reality we created is not at all like we thought it was going to be, and worse, is not really a reality I want?  And how long before I am bored or overwhelmed and now want some OTHER reality?

And then what happens?  We are off yearning for the NEXT thing that we feel is going to fill all our holes, solve all our problems, and give us that inner peace we yearn for.  And the same thing happens.  Again, and again, and again, and again.   Yes or no?  This is the essence of the human condition.

All this stuff about evolutionary stages marks the archetypes within that process as the Soul discovers again and again that what it sought does not bring it what it wants.  We don't think of it as the Soul is what is seeking all this stuff.  But YOU are but an emanation of your Soul, placed here in a reality where you can have physical sorts of experiences that can't be had in the astral realms, which has a lot to do with why people keep coming back here in the first place.  We are addicted, attached, to various kinds of experiences, patterns, habits - we KNOW they are not good for us, they are not making us happy, and yet we find we crave them ANYWAY.  That is sort of the definition of insane, yes?  And yet we all do it.  

Gradually slowly painfully the Soul starts seeing the truth of all this.  Everything it thinks it wants, what it goes after, proves in the end to be without meaning.  This in effect throws that Soul, and the personality created by that Soul, back on itself, to ponder, what the hell is going on here, why can't I find peace, and how do I get out of this?  And that state of questioning precedes the beginning of the transference into the spiritual stages.  At first there is emptiness - Virgo - because the Soul has learned that all that it thought meant something, does not mean much - Virgo - emptiness, lack - and it doesn't yet know what DOES mean something or how to reach / connect with it. (polarity of Virgo is Pisces - Source).

This is not the funnest process anyone's ever had.  So Souls can spend hundreds, thousands of years, doing all they can to avoid entering that difficult process of facing self, by continuing to create realities that really don't work, while convincing themselves they do work, for as long as they can.  To avoid the pain and the aloneness and emptiness of beginning to honestly face self.  Most of us who find ourself entering that process of facing self go there (as I have humorously labeled it) on the kicking and screaming plan.  We find the lives we have known collapse (so often stressful Pluto aspects are occurring to bring this on) - we can no longer live as we have been because the reality that allowed us to live that way simply disappears.  Someone dies.  A job suddenly ends.  A mortgage is foreclosed.    A partner leaves.  Whatever.   Or, I finally realize I can no longer go on living as I have been living, and after 200 aborted attempts to change my life circumstances I finally change them - quit the job, leave the marriage, whatever.  And then something new starts to take over.

A new life, or at least a new chapter in a life, begins.  This potentially breaks us free from the habitual past.  These are generally difficult and stressful times. Everything is in flux, very little is certain.  Few of us are trained how to live through such times.  Most of us are taught to hold onto what we have until the bitter end.  So we have to learn a whole other way to relate to life - to flow.   And that will prove to be exactly what the life lessons are trying to teach us - to let go and follow the intentions of the Soul - to learn what they are, and to loosen the grip the parts of self that need to control and stay put in order to feel secure, have over us.  To learn to trust in life, not because Eckhard Tolle or Deepak Chopra taught me that this is the goal of spiritual living, but because I discover from within my own life experience its the only way that makes any sanity out of all the changes that are going on within me and around me.  

All of that is the underlying philosophy and orientation of Evolutionary Astrology.  EA is not a bunch of cool information to memorize in the brain.  It is a way of living that can transform a life.  This way of life happens to use the symbolic language of astrology as symbols to describe the natural archetypes of life. It could just as easily use Tarot or I Ching or Runes or any other system based on natural law - that which simply IS - to describe the same processes.  

Its important to understand, this is a way of looking at life, a way of living life, not just a deeper way of interpreting a natal chart.  When you let it loose within you, when you osmose it (Pluto) within yourself, it transforms you from the inside out, step by step.  It teaches you what it is, with the teacher being within you. not external  All the student need do is have the sincere desire to understand, and be willing to pay attention, 24/7/365.  

In terms of what to read, have you read Deva's new book?   Do you have Pluto Vol 1?  Pluto Vol 2?

If you have already read Pluto Vol 1, read Deva's book, which helps integrate those principles, stating them in different yet similar ways.  If you've read them both, then read Pluto Vol 1 again - everything I said here is described in its essence in Pluto Vol 1.   Read it again, from the frame I've expressed here.

If you are serious about studying EA consider enrolling in the school - either buy the first set of DVD's at $333, or the whole thing at $999.   If you can't afford that or are not sure if you want to get into it that deeply, within a couple of weeks we should have Jeffrey's old workshop DVD's available on the website.  One of them is called Pluto: The Evolutionary Journey of the Soul.   That came out at the time the first Pluto book was a best seller - he discusses the core Pluto principles in more depth - its 90 or 120 mins long - will cost $20 or $25.  You can listen to it again and again and again, to let the principles sink in.  This stuff rewires your brain.  It removes scales that have been covering the eyes that one doesn't even realize HAVE been covering the eyes.

Its also important to say when I make statements like that, that I am not talking about Jeffrey himself, or the teachings of EA - these teachings did not originate in EA.  These are the timeless truths of all time, as taught by Yogananda and the gurus who came before him, the original teachings of Jesus, Buddha, and everyone else who has ever practiced the simple unadorned truths, simply because they were true, with no ulterior motive of profit, ego, fame, control , etc etc etc.  Just because it is what is.  

Mainly what EA is, is these timeless truths being applied to astrology, so that the birth chart can be used to measure the evolutionary progress of any Soul, to speak to that Soul - to remind it how it got where it now is, why it feels stuck in the places it feels stuck, and what it needs to do to release the stuckness and get moving.  

Everything else we talk about here is details.  That is essence.

I hope you found this helpful.  If I didn't address some of your questions/points, please feel free to ask more, of me or of anyone on this board, should someone else's approach resonate more with you than mine does.  All the EA practitioners who participate here are basically aligned with the same principles I've expressed in this post - at least 80 - 90% agreement with what I said.  The main reason we participate here is from a desire to help people understand what EA really is, and to help them integrate these understandings into their personal lives, and into the readings they offer clients if they are professional astrologers.  

The essence of Pluto, of this work, will change you, if you open to it and let it do its work.  The point of that work IS to remove the blocks and resistances you mentioned - that is what it is for.
Steve


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: chuck h on Jul 10, 2009, 07:23 AM
Steve,

I am off to work now, so haven't much time.  Just want to say thank you.  You have taken my comments exactly as they were intended, and addressed them beautifully, CLEARLY, and compassionately.  I also enjoyed the little bits of humor.

I now understand in way that I haven't before.  Now there is something to build upon.  This writing of yours DID resonate with me.  I am trying to contain my emotional response a bit, because your post demonstrates that which I seek...love shared one with another, untainted by resentment, ego or condescension...all with the simple intention of lifting the other.

with eternal gratitude,
chuck


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Jul 10, 2009, 09:42 AM
[WARNING: No EA Delineations below.  Just words from a Heart.]


Chuck,

  I feel reading your posts that I know exactly where you are coming from.

  One of the reasons that I was writing details into the thread concerning my chart was so that others coming to this site could watch the change within me unfold, and how I tried to work on that change, and navigate the obstacles (which I now know that I place in my own way).  But, it was seeming to turn into a blog, and I became uncertain if I should continue posting my inner work, so I stopped (and even deleted several posts as being too 'blog-like.')  For me, the question still remains, is this site only for students to learn EA?...or is it additionally a record of the changes within those who are using the concepts upon which the EA Paradigm is based to change themselves?  I lean towards the former, probably because one of my deepest issues is worthlessness, and the polarity of that is to go overboard trying not to 'burden' others with myself.

  However, one of the last things that I posted, and something which has now been verified for me by reading Yogananda's Autobiography, was the concept of 'giving myself up to the Great Mother.'  I don't know if that image resonates with you, but for me She is the Origin, and thus the Source to which I (long to and) will return, and so in that sense She is also the End.  I called Her to me, (and called and called), and She came, and She came awakening the memory of having come many times in my life, but each time She left, She took with Her the memory of Her coming (or, it was I who lost it).  Except for this Last Time!!!  She left me with the memory of Her Presence, because I asked Her to!!  I asked Her for Her help, 'Please let me know the way out of this pain I now daily feel!'  I cried to Her (figuratively and literally), for I had truly scared myself (just recently) by wanting TO ABSOLUTELY DESTROY MY SOUL.  I was sincere in that intention, and only did not follow through because of the pain that I knew it would cause my wife and three children.  So..I had decided to postpone my Soul-death until this Incarnation ended.  Often, I know, we read the words/posts/feelings of others, and then we move on to the next available thing waiting for us.  But, I am now trying to slow things down, to stop the movement past this post to the next, to really interject some of myself into this post, and slide through/past the barrier of words, and say: I WAS GOING TO DEMAND THAT MY SOUL BE SHREDDED...UNTIL IT WAS SHREDDED!!!! once this current Incarnation was passed.


  As Steve said in a post above this, 'The root of resistance is that the person is afraid that they may die.'  I have no such fear, none!  I was often in such soul-pain, pain that goes unrecorded except in my personal journals (dark scribbles in the endless midnight to dawn space of black time) and in my heart (like molten iron poured down my throat into my chest cavity, rigid yet never cooling).  I knew how to die, but could not figure out how to live!!  I am trying to honestly reach out to you with this post, in a shared understanding, and if you personally knew me, you would know that I am not making this up for pity or inflation or to impress others or whatever.  I simply seek to touch you, heart to heart, to show you the way out which I have found, which I am now walking...and is now working for me!  I don't know if it can work for you, or any one but me, yet still I post this in case it can help anyone in any small way.  (And the Mother asked me to.)

  The path upon which my feet now lead me is through Her, to Her.  I called and called, and She came wrapped in the vastness of Her Love for me, for all of us.  That simple fact should be shouted, for I know myself to be so small and insignificant:  I called...AND SHE CAME FOR ME!!!  And, I know (as I write this I feel Her still, and it is Her who lets me know this), if ANYONE CALLS, SHE WILL COME!!  When She came to me, for me, I held myself away from Her in my pain, in my complete shame at having wanted to shred my very Soul, in my desire to stay in my pain.  I am crying as I write this:  SHE CAME, AND LOVES ME STILL!!  I learned then it is my desire which holds me away from Her, away from the Source, away from the Peace and Love THAT IS MY RIGHT AS A SOUL BORN OF HER!!  Yes, the EA Paradigm teaches us that desire is the determinant of evolution of the Soul.  I am seeking to share here how an understanding of that desire came to be rooted within my heart, and then (and only then!) a true understanding of this aspect of the paradigm arose from my Heart to my Head.  Steve has stated in the post above this post that one must come to live this paradigm.  This is how it is happening for me, and I want to share this with you, for through the words you wrote, through the space that separates us, through the time that separates what you wrote with when I read it...I feel your pain, the pain of Soul confused, and striving to find the way (out).

  When She came, I was overwhelmed, and suddenly She let me see that She is the origin and the destination.  I asked for help...and She let me see.  I asked if I could give myself...my energies, my heart, my body, my love, my direction, my understandings, my thoughts, my feelings, my very essence...to Her, and SHE ACCEPTED ME!  I gave myself up to Her, and asked Her to use me as Her tool.  I am of course still absolutely responsible for each and every one of my own actions, but I have placed those actions at Her feet.  There is nothing that is not Her.  At the end of each day since then, I sit on the floor, and place my hands over my Heart, and ask for the gift of Reiki to flow through me (and to me), and when I feel still and calm and heavy, and my breathe works of itself in the stillness of me, then I call for Her to come, to come and to remind my little Heart (and smaller mind) of the vastness of Her, of the infinity of Her Love, and Her caring for me and all of us.  AND SHE COMES...STILL!

  Now, I rest in the knowledge of Her, and allow what I do to be driven by Her.  I ask Her daily in many small ways what it is that I should do, and She answers me.  I am sincere in my honesty, and She knows all my 'wrinkles.'  I ask Her for the big picture, what is it what She needs from my Life, and She answers me.  I know the feeling when it is truly Her answering me, for none other can bring that feeling to me...endlessly vast, yet a pinpoint of light above and in front of me and also deep within the core of my heart; a thrumming in my entire chest and a warmth of simple caring for the gift of each instant; a timeless space between each heavy yet effortless breath...  Then I know...it is She.  She has not disrupted my life, although She could and I have given Her the right to do so.  She has pointed out the purpose in what I currently do, and how even that currently aligns with Her Purpose.  (She is taking it easy on me, I think...!)

  I still work on the reality of me, trying to purge my body of toxins and parasites, trying to cleanse my heart of anger and selfishness, trying to polish my mind of ego desires and self-imposed limitations...  I have placed all of my other personal projects on hold (the ones which glorify me and my ego, and not Her and Her Purpose), and I study EA (and those around me), and I am learning to hold myself in a bubble of love (as She taught me by example) and so hold others in Love as well.  I work on my skipped steps of righteous anger, ego superiority and self-deluding illusions, and I try to be gentle with me (for that is something that I have never done).

  So...take yourself away for a weekend if your house will not support your peace, and call to Her until She comes!  She will come...  Ask Her for what you need.  She will help you to reach it...


  Perhaps I got a little carried away here, and if so, I seek the apologies of all who subjected themselves to this post.  But, you decided to read it (and I did post a warning).


Blessings and all the Love of the Mother,
Stephen

(I have to go blow my nose...and wipe my eyes. ;) ))


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Stacie on Jul 10, 2009, 12:38 PM
[WARNING: No EA Delineations below.  Just words from a Heart.]


That simple fact should be shouted, for I know myself to be so small and insignificant:  I called...AND SHE CAME FOR ME!!!  

So beautifully said Stephen...threw me into tears.  God bless you.

Hi Chuck,

I also recommend very highly for you to read the article on the nature of evil and its influence in the horoscope.  This is a transcript from a workshop Jeffrey did with a focus on the asteroid Lucifer.  This symbol is exactly conjunctly your sun, the sun being the ruler of your pluto.  One influence we can see right away is that evil is trying to convince you that you do not have the depth of self-determination that you ACTUALLY have.

The core strategy of evil is to create the opposite reality the soul is intending, and to maintain delusions which keep up from directly knowing and living in alignment with the natural god.  Evil does this by focusing upon the weakest area in the soul structure, and by magnifying and distorting that content in ways that make the issues seem insurmountable and/or unchangeable.  This magnification and distortion is also done with the specific intent of inducing negative emotion, such as fear, futility, victimization, and a myriad of other self-defeating emotional states, which can UTTERLY DOMINATE OUR ATTENTION, even though our paramount desire is to utterly root our attention in god.  When we can't see this influence for what it actually is, i.e. the work of evil to prevent us from evolving back to god, we tend to anticipate worst case scenarios and relate to those scenarios as actual reality, when it's actually NOT. When we relate to these anticipations as an actual reality, we then tend to act according to a sense of imminent threat, which will have nothing to do with what our soul has incarnated to actually do.  It sets in motion a chain reaction that reinforces the very pattern evil is trying to keep us chained to...this is the opposite of what god actually wants for us, and it's exactly how evil lengthens, delays, or detours us in our returning journey back to god. 

The gift in this symbol is that it can also be the bearer of light, i.e., the means by which we recognize and expose evil's tactics, and the means by which we can snatch that influence away from evil and give it back to god. Thus it has the equal potential to manifest as a god symbol. That is all within our god-given power of will.  While the forces of God and Evil are ALMOST equal, God is in fact stronger: 49% evil, 51% god...we get to choose and say who gets the upper hand in the theatrical drama playing out in our lives.  The natural god is quiet, unussuming, and humble.  It will never impose that upper hand.  It wants us to CHOOSE this and to make that request. Evil on the other hand is all too happy to impose itself on the upper hand.  It banks on our sense of weariness and futility which makes us feel we have no power or say in how our struggle plays out.  The closer a soul gets to god, the more intense evil's desperation becomes to win back its influence over that soul, so it becomes paramount to develop the awareness of how evil tries to operate within us.   The article I mentioned is a great resource for deepening and expanding that awareness.  So if you feel inclined, read it.  Read it very deeply and you will find that knowledge being osmosed into your own interior consciousness.

As for advancing your understanding of the EA paradigm and archetypes within it, believe me, most of us have encountered a major sense of intimidation relative to EA's depth in the beginning...I know I did!  As Steve and Chuck have said, the ACTUAL teacher of this work is SPIRIT.  Believe me when I say that..I know the truth of this firsthand.  I know you know it too.

As an aside, I was raised in a mormon family and have lived in Utah for most of my life.  My extended family is devoutly mormon.  I currently live and work in the Salt Lake City area.  I was a member of the church up until about 5 years ago...not a gung ho member..never really identified with it..but embraced it to the extent that I did because of it's masochistic appeal :D (I have quite a religous-masochistic history in my soul)..also hadn't been exposed to anything else..very sheltered religously.  Ironically I somehow managed to remain impervious to the actual church doctrine, but DID internalize some of the emotional garbage and readily sucked up all the masochistic content.  But always knew my relationship with god had nothing to do with the men claiming to be the only authorized gateway.  This is just a knowing I've always had, and it's the reason I was able to maintain a degree of inner spiritual fulfillment in spite of the external environment providing none of that.  Meeting Jeffrey in this life was indescribably pivotal.  I'll just say he proved some things that I had not been finding in the world, which I always knew inwardly was the reality I was striving for.  That of itself brought an incredible acceleration to my own self-actualization.  I finally found that I could not tolerate the inner/outer discrepancy of actual knowledge I had in my soul relative to what others were led to believe by relating to me as a member of that church.  I wanted my life to be a true reflection of who I ACTUALLY am, and I wanted the true nature of my relationship with god to been seen without any false constructs implying credit for that relationship.  I've heard the whole 'you are under the influence of satan' business...'astrology is the work of satan', and the like..I've been through the religious projections where people viewed my process of personal liberation as satan winning over my soul...people trying to impose intervention on my behalf...people crying and feeling attacked/betrayed because of what I knew I needed to do for myself and finally determined to act upon.  I did not waiver in my choice and those very people, over time, have come to see that my core devotion remains with god...my most intense critic in fact has totally come to embrace my astrological work...she actually solicits my astrological insight now, and I'm clear that's because I allowed her the initial space to reject it..and when she DID initially reject it, I understood her need to reject it, thus there was no projection of discord or reactionary judgment on my part..I simply gave her the space to do and feel what was necessary for her, and I honored that exact same space for myself, thus absolutely no guilt.  I know this outcome is a product of having 100% OWNED my choice: i.e., "this is just who I naturally am..take it or leave it", and I was prepared to accept whatever outcome that choice would result in relative to other people choosing to stay or pass out of my life.  This was done in a true spirit of unconditional love..love for them, love for myself, love for god. 

God Bless you Chuck.  Your doubt is merely a passing distortion of perspective being induced by evil.  I feel the material JWG has provided on the natural of evil will provide you with some new access to exposing this pattern of futility, etc when it tries to manifest in the inner work you are doing.  Also just wanted to say: You know deep within yourself what is right for you to do. Honor that. Don't allow evil to distort and mess with that knowledge. 

Stacie


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: chuck h on Jul 10, 2009, 05:40 PM
Hi Stephen!

I think we would become instant friends if we met.  You have expressed the answer...to let go, to release at the deepest level all resistance to change.  I have the same self-worth issues., and this IS the biggest resistence, for we create in our worlds, from within.  What is within?  Is it dark and cold?  or is the 'MOTHER' dwelling there in perfect acceptaance.

You have described the difference between anguish and bliss with a passion and reverance that can only be a product of direct spiritual communication.  Yes, you have touched the Source and found her to be gentle and loving.  That is a feeling, a sense that can never be erased...only covered over by our little strivings and obsessions. 

If we are lucky, this feeling becomes the predominate motivating factor in our lives.  All else is secondary...no, all else is meaningless.  That feeling which you express so beautifully, Stephen...is Love.

Thank you so much,
chuck


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Linda on Jul 10, 2009, 06:34 PM

You know deep within yourself what is right for you to do.  
Honor that.  
Don't allow evil to distort and mess with that knowledge.
 

Stacie


Stacie:

Your words above are the very conclusion I came to this morning.  


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: chuck h on Jul 10, 2009, 10:45 PM
Hi Stacie.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, and also for looking at my chart. 

I just found out about Lucifer six months ago.   And it makes sense.  The battle has always raged within.  Funny, back in the 80's, when Pluto squared my Sun (and now I find out, Lucifer), a three page essay came to consciousness and spilled all over my tablet.  The title of the essay came out, 'The Beast Within'.  I'm glad you mentioned the light-bearer possibility.  That is the way I hope the story ends. 

I will certainly read the information you cited carefully.  I'm sure it will make perfect sense to me.

like you, I was never 'into' the mormon teachings.  I joined because wife was mormon and to keep peace in the home.  I never liked religion (was catholic as a child)  couldn't stand the stuffiness and controls.  Never thought or cared about the condition of my soul, and found church meetings totally boring.  Never once stood up and 'bore my testimony'  because I didn't have one.  Then, after 17 years of this, Astrology appeared by chance...and everything changed.  Something happened inside me and I was drawn into metaphysics with the urgency of an over-active moth.  That was 28 years ago, and the search for meaning has not ebbed in the slightest...In fact it intensifies.  But always the opposition...the mystifying 'resistance'.  These answers to my longing soul's questions may have increased the odds to 48/52.

Thank you again, Stacie.
chuck



Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Sep 04, 2009, 12:11 PM
  I have a general question about the retrograde archetype, in terms of a retrograde planet 'pointing away' from itself.

  In this Message Board, Rad wrote:
With Saturn retrograde it's like pointing an arrow towards Uranus.
When Neptune is retrograde it points to Pluto itself: our Soul.
[2009.06.10]

  And, in the Archived Message Board, JWG wrote:
Saturn retrograde points to Uranus, Uranus retrograde points to Neptune, and Neptune retrograde points to Pluto.  When an outer planet is retrograde, as with Neptune, the intention is to deepen the consciousness, to create a new center of gravity within consciousness relative to it's evolutionary expansion.
[2002.01.30]

  Do the other planets figure into this concept?
Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury...pointing away from themselves to another planet, in a way?

  Thanks to anyone who might answer...

Blessings,
Stephen





Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Deva on Sep 05, 2009, 09:31 AM
Hi Stephen, it seems to me the best thing to do when encountering all of this info. is to keep fundamental "bottom lines" in lines or else it can seem overwhelming. I thought I would write what I have learned about retrogrades in this context.
    I have learned that Mars RX creates an internalization of the Mars function in general (i.e-slows down the process of initiation of actions in general). This is because, prior to the life, the Soul has acted upon many desires very that were not relevant to his or her evolutionary intentions for the life, and may have had negative consequences, and so in this life the intent is for the individual to fully "think through" the desires that he or she acts upon in order to create an alignment with the current evolutionary intentions for this life. (There is a section on Mars RX written in the Pluto vol 2 book that more thoroughly describes this process/what it symbolizes from an evolutionary point of view). Mars RX creates an awareness of the nature of the Soul's desire nature in this way.
 Mercury RX actually points to the Jupiter function (right brain leading the left brain), and Venus RX indicates that the Soul is defines through the Taurus side of Venus (establishing a primary relationship within him or herself first) instead of the Libra side as most folks are (initiation of relationships with others which is the externalized side of Venus).
  The best thing to do is to remember that RX planets symbolize that the Soul must internalize and establish a personal meaning for the planetary function that is RX independent from the mainstream society. In other words, a liberation and individuated process is described with any planet that is RX because it reflects that the Soul is giving a personal meaning and definition of that planet that is free from the culturally accepted ways of behavior. (Pluto vol 2 describes the nature of RX planets in detail as well). However, this process has typically not been completed prior to the current life, so it sets up the three R'S- Repeat, Re-live-Resolve. It indicates that specific life circumstances are recreated in order for this evolutionary intention symbolized by the RX planet to be completed and resolved.
Hope this helps, and thanks for your posts!
Deva     


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Sep 06, 2009, 03:21 AM

Hi Stephen, it seems to me the best thing to do when encountering all of this info. is to keep fundamental "bottom lines" in lines or else it can seem overwhelming.


Hi Deva,

  Very Good Advice!  I have been taking notes, and organizing this volumous information for myself so that I can better understand it and build a solid foundation for further study.  I enjoy that process, actually ('overdeveloped' self-ruled Mercury in Gemini in the Third, Ruling Pluto in Virgo in the Sixth?), and have found that I learn best (and retain information longer) by repetitively broadening/narrowing my focus...moving over the largest possible information base, seeking larger patterns, and then lasering in on a detail within a pattern (possibly uncovering another pattern).  I have found (for myself) that the more often various ways of stating a fact are reviewed (diverse authors), eventually one way will 'boing' against one's personal orientation, and awaken an understanding.

  So, I really appreciate your help steering me back on course, and providing me further information.  Your entire post is extremely helpful to me.  I will review the further information as you have kindly suggested.

  By the way, speaking of "self-ruled Mercury in Gemini in the Third, Ruling Pluto in Virgo in the Sixth", would you be able to state the effect of Pluto's Planetary Ruler upon that archetype with which the natal Pluto correlates?

  Also, I just thought of this while typing, does a House have a Ruler?  So that, for example, Pluto in Gemini in the Tenth House would have Mercury as its Planetary Ruler and Saturn as its 'House Ruler'?

Thanks very very much Deva.

God'dess Bless,
Stephen


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: Steve on Sep 06, 2009, 11:51 PM
Hi

 
Quote
Also, I just thought of this while typing, does a House have a Ruler?  So that, for example, Pluto in Gemini in the Tenth House would have Mercury as its Planetary Ruler and Saturn as its 'House Ruler'?

yes, and yes

Perhaps a better way to phrase it is tenth house has the same flavor as Saturn and Capricorn.  Thus a Moon in Libra in the tenth house and a Moon in Capricorn in the 7th house will have similar flavors.

In EA we are taught to start with the house, this representing the deepest expression of the energies in that part of the chart.  Tenth house is inherently Saturnian - so anything in the 10th house will operate in a Saturnian way.  Gemini, in your example - the sign on the house cusp - represents the next level up.  The art of EA is to synthesize what Capricorn energy filtered through a layer of Gemini operates like.  If Pluto is in that house, add in another layer - what does Capricorn energy filtered through a layer of Gemini expressing itself in a Scorpionic (Pluto) way operate like?

Starting with the evolutionary state, the social conditioning patterns, and the evolutionary signature (Pluto, nodes, nodal rulers), you quickly have a detailed picture of how that Soul/ego are structured, from the core out.


Title: Re: Retrograde Planets and Stages of Evolution
Post by: stephen on Sep 08, 2009, 07:45 AM
 As always, Thank You very much Steve for the responses, and for the taking the time to help clarify the EA Paradigm for those of us coming here to this Board...

Blessings,
Stephen