School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 03:48 PM



Title: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 03:48 PM
Hi Everyone,

Lilith - Ceres - Pallas - Vesta - Juno - Sedna - Eris - Amazon (Amazone)
- or any other


The Asteroid Goddesses correlate to the Natural Feminine and her expression of the intuitive "feeling self."  Patriarchal projections and psychological crises have distorted the natural meanings of the Feminine - so let's dig deep and examine the core archetypal principles that revive the actual, natural expression of the Asteroid Goddesses along the lines suggested by Brenda, Rad and Kristin recently.

Quote by Brenda:
.......if you look at the archetypal meanings of some of the Asteroid goddesses coming into prominence, such as Sedna, Eris, Lilith--in a patriarchal world, we get interpretations that are focused on their anger, retribution, etc, so the feminine continues to be distorted. With Ceres, we get examples of that linked to abductions and abuses of women, more related to the famine aspect, than the nurturing and abundance the Goddess holds.

Quote by Rad:
It could be very useful to examine the patriarchal overlay/projections into these natural asteroid Goddesses. And in that examination to recreate the actual, NATURAL, meanings and correlations to those asteroids.

Quote by Kristin:
I recently saw a movie that perfectly reflects the results of what happens when you abuse and destroy a natural Lilith. The movie is called "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" - a Danish movie and the first of a trilogy. The lead woman in this movie is the embodiment of a Distorted Lilith - a movie where some sweet justice is served... by her.  Underneath her understandable wrath and revenge is an echo of her raw feminine beauty, which includes her fearlessness, sexual prowess and power.  I agree with Rad that it would be useful and valuable to explore some of the Goddess asteroids and the NATURAL meanings of these archetypes. Goddess Bless the Goddess.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Sep 06, 2010, 05:39 PM
Hi Linda,

I would like to also add the asteroid Amazon - shown as Amazone in the ephemeris.
I love your fighting spirit - let's Go FOR IT!

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 10:43 PM
Juno

Juno is associated with the signs of Libra and Scorpio.  She is the Goddess of Marriage and represents the capacity for committed relationships utilizing the feminine energies to express creativity, sensitivity, equality, refinement, sharing and faithfulness.

In Greek mythology she was known as Hera, Goddess of the Earth and Moon Phases.  Her husband Jupiter, King of the Heavens, had many affairs, slowly stripping her of her powers;  nevertheless she vowed to stay faithful even though her ideals were never met.  In the on-and-off-again relationship, she became portrayed as a jealous, possessive, manipulative, vindictive and raging shrew. 

Patriarchal distortions:

* the "powerless" woman vowed to an unequal marriage
* the "little woman" behind the big man
* the "battered wife" in domestic violence
* the "neurotic wife" whose needs are thwarted
* the "shrew" of violent temper and speech
* the wife "tied to the kitchen sink"
* marital collapse:  the unfaithful husband and the betrayed wife
* the woman denied expression of her natural self
* the sexless marriage
* the rejected, victimized, and displaced woman

Revival of natural expression for the Asteroid Goddess, Juno:

* equality and balance in relationships
* need for commitment and consistency
* need for joy, passion, intimacy and humour
* mutual sharing, love, honesty and understanding
* women reclaiming their power
* full expression of one's creativity
* the need for space for oneself
* self-sufficient rather than co-dependent relationships


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 10:53 PM
I love your fighting spirit - let's Go FOR IT!


Hi Kristin!

Thanks for the encouragement.

I hope others will join in.

Love,
Linda


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Bradley J on Sep 06, 2010, 11:19 PM
This is great! 
Thanks for starting this thread Linda

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 07, 2010, 06:11 AM
Hi Linda,

Thank you so much for starting this thread.  I am very interested in learning more about these archetypes and will mostly be reading along as I don't have much to contribute.  However, your post brought up a question for me about faithfulness.  I'm having a hard time understanding this term outside of my own patriarchal conditioning and I'm wondering if you and/or others could describe it as it might express itself in a more natural way.

In a patriarchal way, faithfulness to me seems to imply self-sacrifice and loyalty, but loyalty to patriarchal norms/ideas/etc, not to natural law.  Any other ideas on this (how faithfulness plays out in patriarchal terms)?  Hope this question is ok for this thread.  It felt important for me to understand within the context of the asteroids/goddesses we're exploring.  But if you think it is better to post as a separate topic, let me know and I can do that.

Peace and gratitude,

Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 07, 2010, 09:26 AM
Ellen, et-al,

 Juno, in natural law, correlates to the power of commitment to one other where both in that commitment are themselves defined by Natural Laws: the natural masculine, and the natural feminine. Juno correlates in this way to the power of each to help facilitate the growth and evolution of the other, and thus the ongoing evolution of themselves within the context of the committed relationship. Additionally, Juno correlates, in Natural Law, to the evolution of our sexuality within the context of a committed relationship: to the point where the deepening sexuality between the two  becomes a vehicle of Soul evolution. In the end, it correlates to using the vehicle of sexuality to create a trance state wherein the inner Godhead can be experienced within because of the trance like state that suspends the ego in such a way that a gravitational shift occurs, for certain amount of time, so that the center of gravity is then in the Soul itself.

 This is very different that the patriarchal conditioning of 'faithfulness' correlates mainly to the women being expected to remain faithful even as the patriarchal man gives himself the right to be with others, while maintaining his 'committed' relationship to his partner. The typical dual standards and hypocrisy that emanates from the patriarchy in every way.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 07, 2010, 10:10 AM
Hi All,

 Here is a great link to a site about Goddesses. It lists all the various Goddesses, and the cultures they come from. By clicking on whatever one you wish will bring up a his/herstory of that Goddess.

 http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/goddess-myths.htm


 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 07, 2010, 12:45 PM
Linda, you are so well organized and very clear about this.

Thank you Rad for the site.

I have listened to Demetra George on Kristen's show, and will share some of the notes I took from that. I have also started reading Jean Shinoda Bolen's work on the Goddesess, and as a psychotherapist she gives examples for empowering and healing through the archetypes.

One thing Bolen noted about Juno/Hera, was that her retribution was not directed back to her husband who was deserving due to his philandering and betrayal, but rather directed at the other women he was involved in or taken out on their children. In a male dominated system a woman then must manipulate and do things in a more underhanded, indirect way. I don't have concrete examples at hand, but several instances of a mother killing her children to get back at a husband, have shown up.

Per my notes from D. George, Juno shows what you need day to day to stay in a relationship--this being demonstrated by the sign Juno is in. It shows the need for equal, just, fair partnership.

In the Myth, she gave up her power to her partner, who then, did not live up to his committments. This George says is her pathos lies in that she didn't get what she was promised, while giving up a lot of her own power . It will also show "cycles of leaving and returning, the tit for tat reciprocation that goes on in marriages."
 

Would Juno at the consensus level, be more representative of the patriarchal distortion?  A woman who marries a man, deriving her own power and status in society relative to this man--who does not honor her or their committment--she can't retaliate at him directly, so she takes it out on others.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 07, 2010, 12:53 PM
Am on an old, slow compter, having challenges.

Continuing, about the levels of Juno... (and I am not fully clear, but putting it out there)

Juno at the Individuated level--would be more reflective of the undistorted feminine, in that she is not in subjugation in her marriage, that she retains her power, is able to be in a fair, equitable relationship. She would not stay in a relationship if the committment was violated and not reparable.

Juno at the Spiritual level--taking this from my notes from D. George--representing Tantric union of opposites--using the union for spiritual progress, Demetra says this is especially with Juno/Neptune or Vesta contacts.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 07, 2010, 07:19 PM
Ellen, et-al,

 Juno, in natural law, correlates to the power of commitment to one other where both in that commitment are themselves defined by Natural Laws: the natural masculine, and the natural feminine. Juno correlates in this way to the power of each to help facilitate the growth and evolution of the other, and thus the ongoing evolution of themselves within the context of the committed relationship. Additionally, Juno correlates, in Natural Law, to the evolution of our sexuality within the context of a committed relationship: to the point where the deepening sexuality between the two  becomes a vehicle of Soul evolution. In the end, it correlates to using the vehicle of sexuality to create a trance state wherein the inner Godhead can be experienced within because of the trance like state that suspends the ego in such a way that a gravitational shift occurs, for certain amount of time, so that the center of gravity is then in the Soul itself.

 This is very different that the patriarchal conditioning of 'faithfulness' correlates mainly to the women being expected to remain faithful even as the patriarchal man gives himself the right to be with others, while maintaining his 'committed' relationship to his partner. The typical dual standards and hypocrisy that emanates from the patriarchy in every way.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Thank you so much.  I believe I understand now.  In matriarchal times, when people were living according to natural law, monogamy was not the norm.  HOWEVER, faithfulness (ie, commitment to one another) was one possible way that 2 people could choose, and this was done when 2 people were making a commitment (ie, their own decision based on free choice) to foster each other's growth and in some cases foster each other's relationship to the Divine. Is this correct?  And is this (faithefulnees/commitment within natural law) more likely to be the exception than the norm?

Thank you.

Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 07, 2010, 09:12 PM
In the Myth, she gave up her power to her partner, who then, did not live up to his commitments. This George says is her pathos lies in that she didn't get what she was promised, while giving up a lot of her own power. It will also show "cycles of leaving and returning, the tit for tat reciprocation that goes on in marriages."

Hi Brenda,

I also caught Kristin's radio show with Demetra George (wonderful!) in which it was discussed that some mythologists considered "that Juno willingly gave over her power to Jupiter" and that women want to give their power away to their husbands when they're married.  

The deeper meaning and reason behind giving her power away was out of an expectation and desire for a deeper, more equitable union where true intimacy and depth could be shared (Libra).  (Natural Law)

In Jupiter's tyranny, Juno was forced to wear a chastity belt, while he philandered about, completely ignoring her.  Her rage came from the total subjugation of her power (Scorpio).  In committing and sacrificing herself to him, she was deprived of her sacred sexuality customs, belief system and rituals.  She was unable to express her "natural self," nor able to express her unique individuality within the marriage.   (Distortion)

We can see the early origins of "man-made guilt" : the shame of leaving a marriage, the shame experienced by a displaced woman left to fend for herself in a patriarchal dominated society, being "owned" by a man like a piece of property.  (Distortion)

Juno would not give up - but stayed for the fight (Scorpio).  The patriarchy distorted the ability for women to defend and protect themselves, and this how they came to be known as "the weaker sex."  Why did she keep going back to him?  This is typical of modern domestic violence scenarios.  (Distortion)

Another example of patriarchal distortion is Jupiter's total disregard for not only his wife, but also for the women that he used along the way.  The term "woman hater" comes to mind.  Perhaps the early origins of rape, having power over another.  (Distortion)

In Natural Law, the couple are equal, not superior/inferior to one another.  They would naturally share their resources.  (Natural Law)

Brenda said:
Quote
Would Juno at the consensus level, be more representative of the patriarchal distortion?  A woman who marries a man, deriving her own power and status in society relative to this man--who does not honor her or their commitment--she can't retaliate at him directly, so she takes it out on others.

I would agree that this type of arrangement is evident in the 'consensus' level.  Open marriage could be evident in the 'individuated' level.  A woman taking her rage and misplaced anger out "on others" is definitely a distortion.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 08, 2010, 08:28 AM
Hi Ellen,

"HOWEVER, faithfulness (ie, commitment to one another) was one possible way that 2 people could choose, and this was done when 2 people were making a commitment (ie, their own decision based on free choice) to foster each other's growth and in some cases foster each other's relationship to the Divine. Is this correct?"

***********************************************************************

Yes.

**********************************************************************

 "And is this (faithefulnees/commitment within natural law) more likely to be the exception than the norm?"

***************************************************************************

It was more of the exception than the norm. And one of the key reasons for that is the evolutionary / biological imperative to create ongoing diversification within the gene pool that allowed the immune systems within the species to keep evolving in order to deal with the equally mutating, and evolving, nature of bacterias, viruses, parasites, and fungus.

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 08, 2010, 07:24 PM
***************************************************************************

It was more of the exception than the norm. And one of the key reasons for that is the evolutionary / biological imperative to create ongoing diversification within the gene pool that allowed the immune systems within the species to keep evolving in order to deal with the equally mutating, and evolving, nature of bacterias, viruses, parasites, and fungus.

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Thank you so much for your answers.  I have just one follow-up, if you have time.  In the above quote, you say that it "was" the norm and the reasons why.  I understand that it is not the norm now (at least the stated norm or the ideal), but wouldn't it still hold true re: the immunological reasons for it still, ideally speaking (ie, in terms of natural law) to STILL be the norm today (ie, non-monogamy).  It is quite striking to me the # of auto-immune dieseases now and just the level that the human species seems to be susceptible to disease generally...

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 08, 2010, 08:11 PM
Sedna  
the return of the Divine Feminine


* Inuit Goddess of the Arctic Deep.
* Her 10,000 year orbit coincides with the rise of the patriarchy and the beginning of agriculture.
* Discovered November 2003.
* She is a new world goddess rather than old world.
* Named after the Inuit goddess who lives at the bottom of the Arctic ocean.
* Planetoid;  red coloured;  3/4 the size of Pluto;  10,500+ year orbit.
* She cycles through the "inner Oort cloud."
* We are ready to incorporate her archetypal meaning into our evolutionary unfoldment.


"The last time Sedna was this close to the Sun, Earth was just coming
out of the last Ice Age.  The next time it comes back, the
world might again be a completely different place."

[Michael Brown, one of Sedna's discoverers]


The Myth - sacrifice, betrayal, abandonment, redemption

Briefly, one version of the myth tells of a beautiful young woman Sedna who marries a seabird disguised as a handsome young man.  She suffers betrayal in the unhappy marriage.  Her father rescues her and they set off in a boat.  A raging storm blows up, and to calm the sea, her father throws her overboard.  Clinging tightly to the side of the boat, her father chops off her fingers one by one.  As her fingers fall into the water they turn into whales, seals and sea-lions.  When all her fingers are gone, she sinks to the bottom of the sea to become the Immortal Sea Goddess.  As the Mother of all Sea Creatures, she presides over all fish hunted for food.  If not respected, she sends starvation to punish the humans.  Shamans must descend into the deep, past the abyss of the dead, to soothe her, in order that the food supply continues.  When she is treated with respect, she releases her bounty.


Sedna’s message

* Affects cycles of growth on the Earth.
* Deals with the cyclical relationship between humanity and Earth's bounty (or withholding of her gifts).
* Teaches respect for the oceans, the biological origin of life on Earth.
* Sends a harsh warning as our oceans become polluted.
* Re-focuses on the rights of women, children, and the environment.
* Brings balance between the sexes, races, and species.
* Deals with vast millenia, and a new level of cosmic understanding.


Since Sedna is so "new," perhaps we can formulate some deeper meanings in line with Natural Law that can be attributed to her?  

Sedna presently sits at 22.35 deg Taurus Rx.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 05:56 AM
Sedna 
the return of the Divine Feminine


* Inuit Goddess of the Arctic Deep.
* Her 10,000 year orbit coincides with the rise of the patriarchy and the beginning of agriculture.
* Discovered November 2003.
* She is a new world goddess rather than old world.
* Named after the Inuit goddess who lives at the bottom of the Arctic ocean.
* Planetoid;  red coloured;  3/4 the size of Pluto;  10,500+ year orbit.
* She cycles through the "inner Oort cloud."
* We are ready to incorporate her archetypal meaning into our evolutionary unfoldment.


"The last time Sedna was this close to the Sun, Earth was just coming
out of the last Ice Age.  The next time it comes back, the
world might again be a completely different place."

[Michael Brown, one of Sedna's discoverers]


The Myth - sacrifice, betrayal, abandonment, redemption

Briefly, one version of the myth tells of a beautiful young woman Sedna who marries a seabird disguised as a handsome young man.  She suffers betrayal in the unhappy marriage.  Her father rescues her and they set off in a boat.  A raging storm blows up, and to calm the sea, her father throws her overboard.  Clinging tightly to the side of the boat, her father chops off her fingers one by one.  As her fingers falls into the water they turn into whales, seals and sea-lions.  When all her fingers are gone, she sinks to the bottom of the sea to become the Immortal Sea Goddess.  As the Mother of all Sea Creatures, she presides over all fish hunted for food.  If not respected, she sends starvation to punish the humans.  Shamans must descend into the deep, past the abyss of the dead, to soothe her, in order that the food supply continues.  When she is treated with respect, she releases her bounty.


Sedna’s message

* Affects cycles of growth on the Earth.
* Deals with the cyclical relationship between humanity and Earth's bounty (or withholding of her gifts).
* Teaches respect for the oceans, the biological origin of life on Earth.
* Sends a harsh warning as our oceans become polluted.
* Re-focuses on the rights of women, children, and the environment.
* Brings balance between the sexes, races, and species.
* Deals with vast millenia, and a new level of cosmic understanding.


Since Sedna is so "new," perhaps we can formulate some deeper meanings in line with Natural Law that can be attributed to her? 
Sedna presently sits at 22.35 deg Rx Taurus.

Hi Linda,All,


One thought I had about Sedna, thinking about Linda's question of possibly finding deeper meanings, was the possibility of the natural ability to see a person for who they are, rather than being caught up with superficial appearances.  Birds are a symbol for spirit, yes?  Sedna, in the myth, was fooled by a disguise of a handsome young man.    All the water imagery in the myth to me suggests emotional attunement as the means to perceiving this deeper reality of another - in other words, tuning into one's feelings/emotional responses to know what is true about another, or at least to begin asking oneself questions that need to be asked. Sedna having been discovered in Taurus suggests to me emotional attunement as a path of/to self-sufficiency.  (I have natal Moon in Taurus, so perhaps I am projecting. But perhaps it allows me to see a possibility, also...)

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 09, 2010, 09:12 AM
Hi Ellen,

Thank you so much for your answers.  I have just one follow-up, if you have time.  In the above quote, you say that it "was" the norm and the reasons why.  I understand that it is not the norm now (at least the stated norm or the ideal), but wouldn't it still hold true re: the immunological reasons for it still, ideally speaking (ie, in terms of natural law) to STILL be the norm today (ie, non-monogamy).  It is quite striking to me the # of auto-immune dieseases now and just the level that the human species seems to be susceptible to disease generally...

************************************************************************

Yes it is still the 'norm' today despite all the patriarchal conditioning to the contrary. Which of course is the actual reason that so many in relationships, or marriages, end up becoming involved with another(s) even as they try to sustain their existing relationship/marriage. It's why roughly 50 percent or more who become married end up divorced. I remember reading a study too by a evolutionary biologist that stated that a women becomes most 'tempted' to be with another man just before and during her peak period of fertility every month. This 'temptation' does indeed reflect the natural law and biological imperative relative to the evolving immune system, and the continuing need for diversification of the gene pool in the human species.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 09, 2010, 04:11 PM
Hi everyone,

Well, I've had an exciting morning!  I wrote to Michael Brown, one of the discoverers of Sedna, requesting the exact time of discovery.

The computer at NASA/Caltech records the discovery of Sedna on 14th November 2003 at 6.32 [UT].  But in Mike's own words:

"Linda -- You're right. Sort of. That's the time the pictures were taken by the robotic computer, but I didn't look at them until the next morning. Not sure of the exact time, though! Mike"

Rad, since Sedna's discovery is so important, do you think the 6.32 [UT] time is good enough to use - or would you actually take the date forward to the morning of 15th November 2003, even though Mike is not sure of the exact time?

Sedna's discovery chart for 14th Nov 2003 is attached, with some amazing patterns:

* 2 Grand Trines forming the rare "Star of David" pattern.

* Water Grand Trine:  Moon/Cancer, Sun/SN/Scorpio, Mars/Pisces.  (Pointing downward reflects the feminine principle.)

* Earth Grand Trine:  Sedna/Taurus, Jupiter/Virgo, Chiron/Capricorn.  (Pointing upward reflects the masculine principle.)

* Sedna in the sign Taurus, Ruler Venus/Sag, the sign correlating to Natural Law.

* Sedna conjunct NN Taurus.

* Sedna elevated in the 10th house.

What can this chart tell us about the use of Earth's resources, past and present?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 04:36 PM
Hi Ellen,

Yes it is still the 'norm' today despite all the patriarchal conditioning to the contrary. Which of course is the actual reason that so many in relationships, or marriages, end up becoming involved with another(s) even as they try to sustain their existing relationship/marriage. It's why roughly 50 percent or more who become married end up divorced. I remember reading a study too by a evolutionary biologist that stated that a women becomes most 'tempted' to be with another man just before and during her peak period of fertility every month. This 'temptation' does indeed reflect the natural law and biological imperative relative to the evolving immune system, and the continuing need for diversification of the gene pool in the human species.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank you so much.  Just hearing this and knowing this, especially about the women's mentrual cycle and their corresponding "temptation" is amazingly helpful and changing the patriarchal conditioning.  All that jealousy and anger and basic relationship mess all for now reason.  Pretty astounding.  I truly appreciate this teaching.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 04:40 PM
Hi everyone,

Well, I've had an exciting morning!  I wrote to Michael Brown, one of the discoverers of Sedna, requesting the exact time of discovery.

The computer at NASA/Caltech records the discovery of Sedna on 14th November 2003 at 6.32 [UT].  But in Mike's own words:

"Linda -- You're right. Sort of. That's the time the pictures were taken by the robotic computer, but I didn't look at them until the next morning. Not sure of the exact time, though! Mike"

Rad, since Sedna's discovery is so important, do you think the 6.32 [UT] time is good enough to use - or would you actually take the date forward to the morning of 15th November 2003, even though Mike is not sure of the exact time?

Sedna's discovery chart for 14th Nov 2003 is attached, with some amazing patterns:

* 2 Grand Trines forming the rare "Star of David" pattern.

* Water Grand Trine:  Moon/Cancer, Sun/SN/Scorpio, Mars/Pisces.  (Pointing downward reflects the feminine principle.)

* Earth Grand Trine:  Sedna/Taurus, Jupiter/Virgo, Chiron/Capricorn.  (Pointing upward reflects the masculine principle.)

* Sedna in the sign Taurus, Ruler Venus/Sag, the sign correlating to Natural Law.

* Sedna conjunct NN Taurus.

* Sedna elevated in the 10th house.

What can this chart tell us about the use of Earth's resources, past and present?

Linda,

You're AMAZING! Thank you for all of your incredible work and reasearch and for keeping these threads going.  I'm truly astounded and tremendously humbled by your work.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 09, 2010, 04:55 PM
Thank you Ellen!

I love everything you do too!

I love what I see in the Sedna chart - that beautiful Star of David!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 06:17 PM

I love what I see in the Sedna chart - that beautiful Star of David!

Yes, that is beautiful.  That suggests a total synthesis doesn't it?  I know JWG talked about it somewhere (the Star of David) but can't quite recall where or just what he said....

And as I was just looking at it, it looks like there's a mystic rectangle also, along with a kite formation (if you include the mc).  Amazing.

Mystic Rectangle: Saturn(Cancer)/Mars(Pisces)/Chiron (Cap)/Jupiter (Virgo) (water/earth)

Kite has Saturn at apex (cancer) opposed by chiron (cap).

The mystic rectangle makes me think of gender role confusion (I remember JWG talking about Mars in Pisces being confusing for a male, for example).  With Chiron's involvement there's the suggestion of healing.  Jupiter in Virgo's involvement to me suggests the righting of these social mores to allow a freer and more natural flow of gender expression. Anyone want to tackle Saturn in Cancer?

The Kite, in a similar vein, with Cap/Can, makes me think of gender switching.


Would either of these themes - gender roles and gender switching - be appropriate for Sedna?

Am curious as to Rad's response as to whether this would be the appropriate chart to use.
 
Ellen

Oh, PS - and thank you for your kind words!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 09, 2010, 07:10 PM
Thanks Linda for the great research--and posting that chart.

Reading over the myth, I started jotting down notes as to my impressions. Some may be a reach. Am thinking perhaps that Saturn in Cancer opposing Chiron in Capricorn represents Sedna's total abandonment from the men in her life. This in relationship to the fact that she makes a choice of her own (implying that she may have rejected her father's choice). In a patriarchal culture, leaving the tribe on your own, could make you an outcast. Then both the man she chooses and her father abuse, betray, and abandon her--the punishment for her move to individuating from her family and tribe with the "birdman"--a different species even.

Thinking examples would include women as property, possibly arranged marriages, women who are mutilated (as a practice in certain cultures), to the "honor killings" of women in certain Middle East cultures, even the practice of covering a woman in a burka. An odd association came up with the movie "Boxing Helena"--a bit different, in that a man so wants to possess a certain woman that does not want him that he ends up capturing her and dismembering her (it was more black humor than graphically violent).

Her individuation comes about from crisis and trauma--she loses vital parts of herself--she is forced to let go of everything, she must completely die to her old way of being. These vital parts--hands, fingers then become her creations--which provides a tangible, physical sustenance for herself and others. A means to heal from the soul loss of trauma would be in the alchemical transmutation of the "lost parts," which she does.

She herself could do Shamanistic work of recovering soul loss, stripping away the masks.

Ellen you so beautifully wrote about the emotional self-sufficiency, I think, not only emotional, but she becomes self sufficient in a tangible, physical way as well. She no longer has to look outside of herself for anything, she has all the procreative, regenerative, self healing capabilities within.

Perhaps the 2 triangles in the chart reflect the integration of yin and yang, which might also speak of her ultimate integration.

At the Spiritual level, she would no longer need to engage in the outer world, more at home with non human life forms?

Thanks





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 09:42 PM
Thanks Linda for the great research--and posting that chart.

Reading over the myth, I started jotting down notes as to my impressions. Some may be a reach. Am thinking perhaps that Saturn in Cancer opposing Chiron in Capricorn represents Sedna's total abandonment from the men in her life. This in relationship to the fact that she makes a choice of her own (implying that she may have rejected her father's choice). In a patriarchal culture, leaving the tribe on your own, could make you an outcast. Then both the man she chooses and her father abuse, betray, and abandon her--the punishment for her move to individuating from her family and tribe with the "birdman"--a different species even.

Thinking examples would include women as property, possibly arranged marriages, women who are mutilated (as a practice in certain cultures), to the "honor killings" of women in certain Middle East cultures, even the practice of covering a woman in a burka. An odd association came up with the movie "Boxing Helena"--a bit different, in that a man so wants to possess a certain woman that does not want him that he ends up capturing her and dismembering her (it was more black humor than graphically violent).

Her individuation comes about from crisis and trauma--she loses vital parts of herself--she is forced to let go of everything, she must completely die to her old way of being. These vital parts--hands, fingers then become her creations--which provides a tangible, physical sustenance for herself and others. A means to heal from the soul loss of trauma would be in the alchemical transmutation of the "lost parts," which she does.

She herself could do Shamanistic work of recovering soul loss, stripping away the masks.

Ellen you so beautifully wrote about the emotional self-sufficiency, I think, not only emotional, but she becomes self sufficient in a tangible, physical way as well. She no longer has to look outside of herself for anything, she has all the procreative, regenerative, self healing capabilities within.

Perhaps the 2 triangles in the chart reflect the integration of yin and yang, which might also speak of her ultimate integration.

At the Spiritual level, she would no longer need to engage in the outer world, more at home with non human life forms?

Thanks





Wonderful, Brenda... This all makes total sense to me...

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 10, 2010, 09:27 AM
Hi Linda et-al,

 I certainly share in the insights that Brenda has shared. Linda: I would go with the actual moment of sighting/ observation by the computer. So the chart you posted would be the one I would use. It's discovery is so reminiscent of the sighting/ discovery of Pluto in that Pluto was first seen when it was conjunct it's own N.Node in Cancer in 1933. In this chart we have Sedna discovered when it was conjunct the N.Node in Taurus. At that time it's own South Node was at 24 Aquarius in the 7th which is then conjunct Uranus at 28 Aquarius at the time of discovery. The N.Node of Sedna is then at 25 Leo in the 1st House. Both of these Nodes are then square the transiting S.Node of the Moon in Scorpio in the 4th, which is also conjunct the Scorpio Sun, and, of course these are opposed Sedna itself, and the Lunar N.Node in Taurus in the 10th.  Both the Sun and the S.Node of the Moon in this chart then refers back to the ruler of Pluto in Sagittarius in the 5th, which is conjunct natal Venus, and both are conjunct the S.Node of Uranus. All three of these are then inconjunct the Lunar N.Node and Sedna itself in the 10th. Additionally, the natal Neptune in this chart is conjunct it's own S.Node, both of course in Aquarius in this chart's 6th House. When all of this is then fleshed in by Jupiter in Virgo, the ruler of the Pluto,Venus, and S.Node in Aquarius, in the 2nd and opposed by Mars in Pisces in the 8th, which then refers back to the ruler of Neptune, conjunct it's own S.Node in the 6th House, which then contains the Chiron in Capricorn which is opposed the Saturn in Cancer in the 12th, IT CERTAINLY SYMBOLIZES THE ENTIRE MYTH OF SEDNA ITSELF.

Within the context of the myth it all about how the natural feminine has been totally violated and destroyed by the perversion of Natural Law at the hands of men, the patriarchy. And, of course, the entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not. The entire message of this natal Sedna chart is to utterly rebel against all that is unnatural. To throw it off, to oppose it. This entire chart is about how women has been used as men's scapegoats, of how they have been defined through the patriarchal distorted centuries as something dark, evil, the 'temptation' to man's spiritual downfall.

With Sedna itself in Taurus, conjunct the lunar N.Node in the 10th, and these then being ruled by the Venus, Pluto, S.Node of Uranus conjunctions in the 5th, this is all about women relearning how to be utterly self sustaining within themselves, of renewing, rediscovering, their natural inner relationships as defined by the principle and natural law of femininity, the natural feminine archetype, and fully actualizing themselves in this way. It is about rediscovering the power of their natural sexuality, and of recreating reality in general as defined by Natural Laws and principles. This would include educating men as to what natural masculinity is, and is not. Thus, or rediscovering and actualizing the natural roles between natural women, and natural men.
 
On a planetary level it is about the survival of the species itself: Sedna in Taurus conjunct the lunar N.Node in Taurus in the 10th, and these being square Sedna's own S and N Nodes in Aquarius and Leo. Sedna and the lunar Node are also inconjunct Pluto, Venus, and the S.Node of Uranus in the 5th, and these are ruled, again by Jupiter in Virgo in the 2nd which is opposed Mars in Pisces in the 8th, ruled by that Neptune in Aquarius in the 6th, conjunct it's own S.Node. In essence, if the patriarchal distortion to reality continues, the violations to natural laws as a result, then this would suggest and symbolize, to me, the extinction of the human species down the line. We can see in this chart that the core violation to Natural Laws that would equal that possibility being the violation of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion, versus the patriarchal perversion which became self interest and exclusion.

There is so much more in this chart, but let's here from others about their own thoughts. And, by the way, found a neat website about Sedna. It is at:

 http://www.lunarplanner.com/asteroids-dwarfplanets/Sedna.html

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 11, 2010, 08:47 AM
Hi Rad, Linda, Ellen, et al,

Rad that is a great website, thanks for finding and sharing. Thank you for your wisdom, guidance and teachings. Coming from a patriarchal education system, I had no educational frame of reference of any of this. So the teachings of EA, especially your clarification of things above, are so helpful, so necessary, so healing. Most people have no frame of reference of role models according to natural law, and continue to repeat such distortions. Living in America right now, is like living in the twighlight zone.

The dialogue and discussions here, whether I interject or not, have been so helpful to me personally, getting to challenging dogma, and even asking questions within that I would not have thought to ask or question.

Reading what you wrote Rad above, and then viewing the crazy women of the American Tea Party--who embody and perpetuate the patriarchal distortion of the feminine, and who are given so much media time, it is shocking and so depressing. There are other patriarchal cultures in the Middle East and South America where women have ascended to true power positions in ways that are more honest and  integrated.

Anyway, thank you Linda, Ellen, et all for your insights, opening the door to this dialogue, teachings--what you write and express, stimulates much.

God Bless you all, and JWG


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Sep 11, 2010, 02:38 PM
HI all,

and Brenda..I could not agree with you more.

***

This is an incredible thread ..thanks to everyone who is doing their part to educate others on the natural feminine. It is time she is healed and returned to her natural state, one Goddess at a time.

The INJUSTICE linked with the feminine and extreme imbalance for lifetimes is shown with Pluto/Venus BALSALMIC in Sagittarius,lifetimes long, of her essence being destroyed and this now being a time of culmination and healing. Pluto also rules the South node in Scorpio which restates this theme and the Sun in Scorpio on the South node. The woman destroyed but back for redemption.

The KITE pattern in the Sedna discovery chart is so powerful and revealing in its message to RISE above where we have been, to fly high above the ashes, to be free of the conditioning patterns and the wounds that have injured so many.This destruction reflected in the tail of the kite, Chiron in Cap in the 6th.

The highest point in the kite, the tip of the kite shows Moon conjunct Saturn in CANCER in the 12th house. They are joined by the asteroid Ceres which reflects RECOVERING SOMETHING LOST FROM THE PAST.. ie recovering the natural feminine. It is about setting the record straight with the N Node of Jupiter also conjunct that Moon/Saturn in the 12th, cleaning up and purifying the corruption and destruction. New rules being written, RULES reflecting NATURAL LAW, rules of of the matriarchy,Saturn in Cancer. This cardinal signature also restated with Moon and Saturn along with the fact they are in Cancer suggests we have to go back and remember our matriarchal roots where everything was in a state of balance in order to then move forward, to restore the natural balance between genders-reflected in the Cancer/Capricorn axis.

The asteroid Amazon, naturally ruled by Mars and Pluto, conjuncts Saturn and the Moon turbo charging the tip of the kite. She is known to be the greatest female warrior. She takes the lead and drives this movement forward. She says "FOLLOW ME" .
The Amazon has been known to single handedly destroy armies of men in order to defend her people and their rights. In this case she represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Her energy is reflected in Rad's quote below.

Rad said

Quote
the entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not.


 "to rebel as fiercely as necessary"..sign me up..

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 15, 2010, 02:43 AM
Ceres
the Great Mother, ancient Roman goddess of agriculture and fertility


* Discovered on 1 January 1801 by astronomer Giuseppe Piazzi, Sicily, Italy.
* Largest of the asteroids - now classed a "dwarf planet."
* Nestled between Mars and Jupiter.
* Circles the Sun every 4.6 years.
* Also known as Greek goddess Demeter and Egyptian goddess Isis.
* Presides over the fertility of the Earth and procreation.
* Represents the principle of unconditional love.
* Nourishing, nurturing, providing, productive, sharing, sustaining.
* Associated with Cancer, Virgo and Taurus.


Myth

Demeter's dearly loved daughter Persephone gets abducted by the lord of the underworld.  In her grief, she neglects the earth, all the crops die, and famine spreads over the world.  When mother and daughter are rejoined, plants grow again. 


Painful experiences and distortions

* Fragmented family structures
* Separation of children from parents
* Mother complexes
* Mother's grief and fears about children
* Teenage drug abuse and crime
* Teenage pregnancies
* Child molestation
* Plight of elderly parents
* Eating disorders
* Compulsive dieting
* Attachment, dependency
* Loss, separation, grief
* Contamination of Earth's soil, water and atmosphere
* Destruction of forests
* Starvation and famine


Ceres' cure

* Need to nurture and be nurtured
* Unconditional love
* Self-worth and self-esteem
* Protection and guidance of children
* Parental obligations
* Preservation of Earth's natural resources
* Work and productivity
* Sharing of food and resources


Ceres' connection to Cancer involves women's issues, family bonds, and emotional states.  Ceres as a possible ruler of Virgo and Taurus, is an archetype of environment activism and social awareness of our responsibility to sustain the Earth's resources, the need for work, productivity, and the sharing of food and resources generously.  We can clearly see how the patriarchal distortions have fragmented the natural family structures, and have lead to the abuse, greed and grasping of the Earth's resources.  Within Natural Law family structures are based on sharing of food and nourishment, and protection of children.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 15, 2010, 03:21 AM
Ceres is presently at 24 deg Sagittarius, and will enter Capricorn on 8th October 2010.

Ceres conjuncts Pluto in Capricorn on 19th October 2010.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 15, 2010, 10:39 AM
Hi Linda et-al,

 Thought it may be useful to post the archetype/ story of the Ceres/Demeter myth as found on that website about the goddess myths that I posted earlier. So here it is. God Bless,      Rad

***************************************************************************                                         




                                        Demeter, Greek Goddess of the Bountiful Harvest
                                                 Goddess of the Bountiful Harvest
                                                       and the Nurturing Spirit


In Greek mythology the goddess Demeter was the most generous of the great Olympian goddesses.  The Greek goddess Demeter was beloved for her service to mankind in giving them the gift of the harvest, the reward for cultivation of the soil.

Also known as the Roman goddess Ceres, Demeter was the goddess of the harvest and was credited with teaching humans how to grow, preserve, and prepare grain. Demeter  was thought to be responsible for the fertility of the land.

She was the only one of the Greek goddesses who was involved on a day-to-day basis in the lives of the common folk.  While others occasionally "dabbled" in human affairs when it suited their personal interests, or came to the aid of "special" mortals they favored, the goddess Demeter was truly the nurturer of mankind.

Demeter also was the only one of the Greek goddesses who could truly empathize with the human experience of suffering and grief, having experienced it fully herself.

The goddess Demeter is best known for her fierce defense of her daughter, Persephone, who was also known as the child, Kore (or Cora).  Persephone's father was Zeus, the mighty ruler of the Olympians. The goddess Demeter had been one of his early consorts, long before his marriage to Hera.

 Persephone was an obedient, cheerful girl who had a happy childhood, playing with her cousins, Artemis and Athena.  Reaching adolescence, she was carefree and spirited, often dancing playfully and picking wildflowers in the meadow near her home. 

Persephone's youthful beauty drew the attention of Hades, the god of the underworld, and he could not help falling in love with her.  One day as Persephone reached over to pick a flower, the earth opened and the arm of Hades reached up from the underworld.

And so Hades abducted her, dragging her back to his kingdom.

Hearing Persephone's screams, the goddess Demeter rushes to the meadow, but cannot find Persephone.  Carrying a torch, Demeter traveled the world day and night, never eating or resting, searching futilely for her daughter.

Poseidon, god of the sea, noticed the goddess Demeter as she traveled and pursued her with amorous intent.  Then Demeter tried to fool him by changing herself into a mare and hiding herself in the middle of a herd of horses, but he was not fooled.  Poseidon saw through Demeter's disguise, turned himself into a stallion, and took her at his will.

When Demeter continued her journey in search of her daughter, she met an old and poor man who was gathering firewood who invited her to return to his home to eat supper with his family and to rest on her journey. When she told him that she was searching for her daughter, he wished her success and told her that he understood her suffering since his son lay dying at home. Demeter, goddess of compasion,   changed her mind and went with the kindly man, stopping only once to gather some poppies by the path.  Entering his humble home, Demeter went straight away to the boy's bedside and kissed the boy lovingly on the cheek.  Immediately the pallor left his face and his breathing eased, as Demeter's love had restored the son to full health.

Although it was the custom of the Greek goddesses and gods to become very vindictive toward anyone who failed to honor them in a dignified fashion, Demeter was such a kind goddess that she seldom utilized this privilege.  One of the few times was when she stopped on her travels to quench her thirst by drinking from a spring and heard a man named Ascaelabus laughing at the sound of her gulping the fresh water. Embarrassed, and angry at the man for being so rude, Demeter turned him into a lizard.

 Resuming her search, she soon encountered Hecate, goddess of the crossroads, who advised her to speak with Helio, goddess of the sun  . . . reasoning that, since she had been riding her chariot (the sun) through the sky that day, she had surely seen what had happened to Persephone. Helio told the goddess Demeter what she had seen and that Persephone was now ensconced as Hades' wife and Queen of the Underworld.  She also gave her the shocking news that Zeus himself had sanctioned the marriage, giving Hades permission to abduct Persephone.
 
Understandably, the goddess Demeter felt betrayed.   Renouncing her divine duties that included bringing fertility to the land, Demeter left Mount Olympus swearing that the earth would remain barren until her daughter was returned to her.  She took refuge in the city of Eleusis. Disguised as an old woman, the goddess Demeter was met the city rulers two young daughters at the well, and they, liking her immensely, invited her to return to their home to meet their mother.  There she met their mother who was cuddling her infant son.  This must have stirred Demeter's longing for her abducted daughter horribly. Demeter became profoundly depressed, almost catatonic, eyes gazing off into the distance and unwilling or unable to even speak.

 Everyone tried to all that they knew to cheer their guest; but it was to no avail. Eventually one of the household servants, a middle-aged maid named Baubo, came and sat in front of Demeter and started talking, mostly making humorous comments (most likely of the "male-bashing" sort), some of them quite risque. Encouraged when she saw the beginnings of a smile forming on Demeter's grief stricken face, Baubo hiked up her skirt and "mooned" the goddess. Demeter responded with a deep belly laugh that brought her out of the deep depression.  Her good nature now restored, Demeter was soon hired to work as a nursemaid to the infant son of the city's ruler.

 
Caring for him lovingly, feeding him on the nectar and ambrosia of the gods, Demeter grew very attached to the young Demophoon and decided to make him immortal.  But, just as Demeter was holding his feet over the fire (the ritual which would transform him into an Olympian god, Demophoon's mother entered the room.

Mistakenly believing that Demeter was about to burn her son, she began to scream.   The goddess Demeter then dropped her disguise, revealing the beautiful goddess that she truly was, and berated the mother for her stupidity in stopping the ritual that would have given her son immortality.

In addition, Demeter demanded that a temple be built in her honor.  This was done, and the goddess Demeter remained there, sitting alone in the darkness, once again depressed and grieving for her lost daughter.

All this time, with the goddess Demeter refusing to function, the land grew barren and the harvests ceased . . . the earth saw a winter that did not end.  Zeus finally opens his eyes to what was happening and sent messengers to apologize and coax the goddess Demeter to return.

Demeter, however, remained adamant that she would not return until Persephone was rescued.  Finally, Zeus gave in and sent Hermes to command Hades to release Persephone.

Persephone, upon hearing the news, rejoiced for she had missed her mother sorely.  As she was leaving, Hades offered her a pomegranate to eat. Persephone had refused all food while she had been in the underworld, and was surely hungry.

Although she undoubtedly knew that those who ate anything in the underworld were not allowed to return to the earth, Persephone accepted Hades' gift, eating only the seeds.  Hermes borrowed Hades chariot and stallions and flew Persephone home to her mother as Zeus had ordered.

Demeter was not pleased that Persephone had eaten the pomegranate seeds and would have to return to the underworld for four months during each year, but was otherwise overjoyed to be reunited with her daughter.

Happily, Demeter resumed her divine duties and restored the fertility of the earth.  Each year the goddess Demeter longs for her absent daughter and withdraws her favors from the earth for a period we know as winter, but Persephone returns each spring to end her desolation.

Once Persephone was safely returned, albeit for only a third of a year, the Greek goddess Demeter decided to reside in her temple in Eleusis where she had enjoyed the welcome and support of her friends during her long search for Persephone.

There she developed the Eleusian mysteries, a series of profound religious ceremonies that taught her initiates how to live joyfully and how to die without fear.

****************************************************************************

The story of Greek goddess Demeter illustrates the tremendous capacity of a woman to love and nurture, within her own family and the world at large. 

It also reminds us to stand firm for what is good and right, even in the face of adversity, when powerful forces are aligned against us.

The goddess Demeter's message also reminds us of the seasons of a woman's life, that even though there are times of great sorrow there is also great joy to be found.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 16, 2010, 08:50 PM
Hello everyone.

I hope its ok if I backtrack to Juno as I would like to explore a practical interpretation of it. This chart is a good example because:
1. He is a male, and I find that most of the material written on Juno is for some reason only directed towards women.
2. It's on his sn in Sag, which is squaring the 3rd house Virgo stellium and chiron in Pisces in the 9th. This soul is first stage spiritual.

Quote from Rad:
Quote
Juno, in natural law, correlates to the power of commitment to one other where both in that commitment are themselves defined by Natural Laws: the natural masculine, and the natural feminine. Juno correlates in this way to the power of each to help facilitate the growth and evolution of the other, and thus the ongoing evolution of themselves within the context of the committed relationship. Additionally, Juno correlates, in Natural Law, to the evolution of our sexuality within the context of a committed relationship: to the point where the deepening sexuality between the two  becomes a vehicle of Soul evolution. In the end, it correlates to using the vehicle of sexuality to create a trance state wherein the inner Godhead can be experienced within because of the trance like state that suspends the ego in such a way that a gravitational shift occurs, for certain amount of time, so that the center of gravity is then in the Soul itself.

This is very different that the patriarchal conditioning of 'faithfulness' correlates mainly to the women being expected to remain faithful even as the patriarchal man gives himself the right to be with others, while maintaining his 'committed' relationship to his partner. The typical dual standards and hypocrisy that emanates from the patriarchy in every way. 

I just tried interpreting it, but got lost in my left brain! So I'm going to keep the space open for someone else to share their understanding.

(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/Maleclientjunoconjsn.jpg)

Thank you,
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 17, 2010, 03:38 PM
Hi Ari,

What I see reflected in this chart is a soul who has internalized all kinds of ideas and messages of a patriarchal nature which has totally conditioned the soul’s consciousness over time, and specifically its beliefs about ‘who it is’...leading to a deep underlying sense of inferiority and artificial guilt simply for the fact of the soul’s intrinsic nature.  

This of course is a natural soul..in this life what you could call a ‘natural man’.  A natural man is vastly different than a traditional patriarchal man.  Yet the past life imprint, as a function of internalizing these messages about who he is, and the guilt/inner sense of inferiority, has led to compensation patterns where in the past the soul has chosen to commit itself to partners who reflect the qualities and circumstances of elite social status...the compensatory intention being to associate itself with the symbols that were highly valued by society..the soul trying to make itself an extension of those symbols so that it too would be valued.  

The reason for wanting to be valued in this way is a reaction to internalized traumas that have been linked with society projecting extreme perversions and exclusionary treatment onto the soul, as a consequence of the soul not reflecting the prevailing customs/norms/values that were expected to define every aspect of one’s lifestyle.  And so by committing to partners who were established in an elitist culture and living a lifestyle reflective of self-important elitist attitudes/philosophies/beliefs: i.e. “i am more important than the bum on the street..i am more important that the bum who is washing my backside and will later be fetching my dinner..or..‘what a beautiful animal!--now kill it so I can wear it for a coat’..(these statements reflecting the inner orientation of the partner..not the soul itself) etc etc, the soul only intensified the pressure to try and be something its not, something it never has been, and something it never will be, by attracting the exact kind of messages that has led to the formation of this inner dynamic: artificial guilt/inferiority..such messages being a function of distorted patriarchal judgment.  

And so the soul’s subconscious orientation to intimate relationship partners has been conditioned by memories of these kinds of dynamics and situations of undermining enmeshment with partners who would constantly remind the soul of all the ways the soul just wasn’t cutting it..how ‘strange and unacceptable’ the soul 'is'..how 'stupid' the soul's visions were relative to the ideals and purposes it felt called to devote itself to in life..

In the current life juno is reflecting the need for the soul to FIRST make a primary commitment to the godhead..juno in sag ruled by jupiter rx in taurus/11th, opposing neptune/venus in scorpio in the 5th..relative to first stage spiritual.  In so doing, the soul progressively deconditions from those artificial messages, beliefs, and behavioral reflexes that have built up and crystalized over lifetimes, and a natural self reliance based on the soul's specific individually becomes established.  Additionally, a primary commitment to the godhead also entails committing to a relevant form of work..karma yoga..a work that heals, honors, serves, and promotes an inner communion with Nature in some way, and simultaneously allows the soul to conduct himself freely through an inner alignment with natural laws.   Through this commitment to deepening conscious inner communion with the godhead, and committing to a work that reflects how that godhead intends to work through the soul, what would then be set in motion is a progressive deconditioning from internalized judgments and the resulting guilt/garbage/undermining behaviors that have become built up in the soul..that deconditioning then changing the nature of the soul's inner vibration..  As the change in the soul’s inner vibration occurs, this allows the soul to naturally ATTRACT..taurus/11th house..a partner of like mind..a natural female..who naturally shares a commitment to the natural god and the natural laws it has created..and through a committed partnership, making these things a mutual WAY OF LIFE.  

The natural partner would also possess a natural humility and natural orientation to service (juno in 6th), which the two would carry out together in the context of their relationship...or at least both would be involved in forms of work that are naturally harmonious and reinforcing in general focus.  This then promotes conversations of a deep and contemplative nature...philosophies they share..discussions about the meaning of life and the larger forces that have created it, etc. (juno/sag)  These conversations would be healing and a powerful affirmation of the mutual bond..it would illuminate the core affinity existing between the two, and deepen mutual appreciation of one another.  They would provide each other with messages--spoken as pure, sincere truth..not as some kind of agenda--that would fundamentally validate the truth of who the other partner is, which would create an immensely positive influence in the general constitution within each partner (5th house).

In addition, we have the symbols for remembering--jupiter rx--the proper use of sexual energy as a means of evolving consciousness..which would be engaged as a devotional ritual that brings both partners into direct union with the godhead, and allows them to directly experience the divinity within each other through the conscious sexual union...jupiter rx opposing venus/neptune in scorpio..venus ruling moon in libra in the 8th house..

That’s what I’m seeing anyway..

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 18, 2010, 09:30 AM
Hi, I would like to go back for some clarification on Ceres. Thank you Linda and Rad for posting all the information.

Is there an EA position on Ceres being recently recognized, while Pluto was "demoted," what does this indicate for now, the future? I assumed this would represent a movement to the return of the undistorted female principle, or the ascension of the feminine. Perhaps it is, and thus would this be a seeding phase, and we get a backlash (Cardinal) before we can move ahead?

It will be interesting to see what unfolds with the Ceres/Pluto conjunction coming up. Over the past year or so, Ceres/Pluto has shown in some deaths/abductions--ie the Natalie Holloway case, she had a natal conjunction of Ceres/Pluto in Scorpio with Transiting Ceres conjuncting her natal Pluto/Venus for her abduction/death. When Brittany Murphy, the young actress, died, transiting Ceres conjuncted her natal Ceres while squaring Saturn.

Jean Shinoda Bolen also speaks of another distortion of Ceres as the overbearing or overcontrolling mother.

Going back to my original question about the recognition of Ceres and what that means--is the backlash primarily in the US? It seems several other patriarchal countries have been able to elect strong women leaders, and the US has Tea Party women. Esquire magazine had a recent article that said American men born from 1960-1990 were more sexist than their fathers--at a time when women are getting better education and better jobs/more pay than men. Is there something in the US chart that makes this an inherent struggle, or is this a transit situation?

The link for the Esquire article:

http://www.care2com/causes/womens-rights/blog/are-young-men-more-sexist-than-their-fathers/

Thankyou


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 18, 2010, 09:37 AM
I moved away from the original topic when I asked about the US chart, but I just looked back at it, so will attempt to answer my own question--does the Pluto in Capricorn, with Saturn in Libra, and Venus in Cancer then show the inherent patriarchal nature of the US?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Sep 18, 2010, 11:36 AM
Hi Ari,

What I see reflected in this chart is a soul who has internalized all kinds of ideas and messages of a patriarchal nature which has totally conditioned the soul’s consciousness over time, and specifically its beliefs about ‘who it is’...leading to a deep underlying sense of inferiority and artificial guilt simply for the fact of the soul’s intrinsic nature.  

Stacie

Wow that was amazing to read Stacie.  I'm so glad Ari posted the questions and to learn from your response.

Thank you,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 18, 2010, 01:25 PM
Hi Brenda,

 In the natal USA chart the natal Ceres in in THE TENTH HOUSE, AND IN PISCES. It is square the natal Uranus in Gemini in the 1st. It is ruled by natal Neptune in Virgo in the 5th, which is square natal Mars in Gemini also in the 1st. The Neptune itself is ruled by Mercury retrograde in Cancer in the 3rd, and this is opposed by natal Pluto in Cap in the 9th. Mercury is ruled by the Moon in Aquarius in the 10th, and that is conjunct the USA natal Lucifer.

 How long did it take for women in the USA to even have a right to vote ? On the other hand the 'feminist' movement largely manifested out of the USA in the late 60's and spread to many parts of the world. At that time transiting Neptune, the ruler of natal Ceres in the USA chart, was in Scorpio and forming a trine to this natal Ceres. It was also forming a trine to the natal Cancer planets in the USA 2nd House. At the same time transiting Uranus was in Libra, and came across the USA's Saturn in the 5th, and forming trines to Mars and Uranus in Gemini, and trines to the natal Moon with Lucifer in the 10th.

 At that time both men and women who all had Pluto in Leo rebelled against the patriarchal conditioning in the USA. That was the time of 'free love', Uranus transiting in Libra. That transit also squared the natal Cancer planets, and inconjuncted natal Ceres. Of course the shock to the Pluto in Cancer generation, their parents, was total. The impact of that time in the USA lasted a long, long time, and, again, reached into many lands. It was a time of women trying to reclaim that which has been lost: the natural feminine.

God Bless, Rad

And, by the way, it means nothing that Pluto has been 'demoted' to something less than a planet. This is just people deciding what is what which means nothing other than what they say it means. The fact is Pluto has an orbit around our Sun, it has an atmosphere, and it has a Moon.

 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 18, 2010, 04:36 PM
Ceres...........the return of the undistorted female principle, or the ascension of the feminine.


Hi Brenda,

I just noticed your reference to the word, "ASCENSION" of the feminine.  


Hi Rad,

Is "Ascension" referred to by so much New Age Spirituality simply, in truth, the return of the Feminine, the matriarchal, within the Age of Aquarius?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 19, 2010, 10:52 AM
Hi Rad,

Thank you very much for your explanation. I don't feel Pluto is any "less" at all, but the word "demoted" has been bandied about close to the same time Ceres was recognized.

Does the US Ceres thus represent why the world looks to the US for its "abundance" and ability to help and heal other countries in need, and why the US looks to itself to also offer help when needed? I may be wrong, but at one time wasn't the US called the "breadbasket of the world"--a Ceres/grains analogy?

The Tea Party women (Moon-Aquarius/Lucifer?) are such a distortion of all the efforts of women from the suffragettes to the "60's. The latter group, who actively fought for their rights, seems to represent the Amazon archetype Kristin mentioned. The Tea Party women are often very pretty, while saying such reactionary, hateful, fear based messages--looking at them, I am reminded of JWG saying something to the effect of Evil looking like G-d (in Sedona) about this current time, sadly too prophetic.

Hi Linda,

I probably used the word" ascension" a bit loosely, I was thinking of cycles, a picture of cycles looks like waves, some waves go down (descend), some waves go up (ascend)--so more accurately, I was thinking of ascendancy in wave form--perhaps I should have used the word emerge, or a return.

I don't know all the New Age thinking, but from what I have read, some people felt that there would be an actual ascendancy of their souls/beings to another dimension--that their DNA was being transformed, and those that were ready would ascend, the others left behind (which, when you think of it, is like a New Age distortion of the "Rapture.") Others, I do believe are waiting for a return of the matriarchy.

Sincere thanks.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 19, 2010, 12:30 PM
(Back to Juno...)

Stacy, that was really helpful. Thank you for sharing your understanding. I want to clarify my understanding:

The soul has deeply internalized all kinds of ideas based on religious conditioning and persecution (sag in 6th relative to squares, as well as jupiter rx in taurus in 11th) and thus the archetype of sacred commitment to another to evolve consiousness through sexuality here has manifested by way of having learned unnatural sexual practices that he did not connect to. Thus the reality of the partnership you described by which he has committed with souls of higher elite as a form of compensation for not living in his own truth- in particular experiencing the actual sacredness of sexuality with a committed partner who is equally devoted to spiritual growth.

In some cases the relationships he engaged in would have been his own syblings/family members- like in Egypt. As that Jupiter opposes Neptune Venus in Scorpio, and is ruled by Venus in Scorpio- which is ruled by Pluto in the 3rd.

And so in this life, committing to a partner with whom they can both share a deep commitment to the truth, and relearn true intimacy with God through sexual union. However a part of this process will require a de-conditioning by way of working through pl trauma that manifests as dissociation when it comes to sexuality. It is interesting to note that this soul is in a very loving and committed relationship with another woman. They both love each other very much, however there is no sexual connection. I feel this explains why.

Please let me know if anything that I wrote is a misunderstanding of this archetype.
Love,
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 23, 2010, 05:11 AM
Hi Ari,

Just wanted to check in and let you know that I'll be back early this afternoon to post the reply to this.  

Talk to ya soon.
Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 23, 2010, 04:44 PM
This of course is a natural soul..in this life what you could call a ‘natural man’.

.......... in the past the soul has chosen to commit itself to partners who reflect the qualities and circumstances of elite social status...the compensatory intention being to associate itself with the symbols that were highly valued by society..the soul trying to make itself an extension of those symbols so that it too would be valued.  


Hi Stacie,

Could you please confirm where the above astrological correlations are found in the chart.

I expect the above quotes refer specifically to Juno 24 deg Cap in the 6th house (conj Galactic Centre - 'daemon soul')?

And how the need to be "valued by an elitist society" correlating to Cap/7th is a Libran distortion?

Any comments on Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Lilith all near the DC?

Thanks Stacie!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 23, 2010, 05:56 PM

Hi Ari,

Quote
The soul has deeply internalized all kinds of ideas based on religious conditioning and persecution (sag in 6th relative to squares, as well as jupiter rx in taurus in 11th) ...

Just remember to include Saturn in this.. ‘Religion’ and all the conditioning therein connects to the cap/10th/saturn archetype.  In this chart we're finding saturn in the 9th..in aquarius.  Oh and what's this--it is conjunct the SN of juno in the 8th house.  Saturn is also trine the NN in the 12th, sextile mercury and juno in the 6th..saturn being ruler of mercury..mercury being ruler of the uranus/mars/pluto in the 3rd.  Saturn is also sextile lucifer in aries in the 10th.

Quote
...and thus the archetype of sacred commitment to another to evolve consiousness through sexuality here has manifested by way of having learned unnatural sexual practices that he did not connect to. Thus the reality of the partnership you described by which he has committed with souls of higher elite as a form of compensation for not living in his own truth- in particular experiencing the actual sacredness of sexuality with a committed partner who is equally devoted to spiritual growth…


The real issue isn’t simply that he has learned unnatural sexual practices that he hasn’t connected to, but is more primarily a matter of having experienced a variety of very INTENSE sexual traumas which has led to a detachment...or disassociation as you've keenly pointed out..from his inner sexual nature. 

If he were to embrace sacred sexuality it would allow him to reconnect to (and experience directly within himself and the right partner) the deeper natural laws that exist within conscious use of sexual energy.  This soul has experienced so much trauma in this area...  And you are quite correct about the connection to sexualized relationships with siblings…EXCELLENT, excellent point Ari.  There are deep unresolved traumas associated with exactly this issue.  There's also unresolved traumas linked with extreme experiences like being gang-raped in lives as a female.  These unresolved traumas have not only become  crystalized within the mental, emotional/psychological bodies, but in the physical body as well, at the cellular level..taurus/11th: cellular memory.  Sacred sexuality as a devotional practice, WITH A PARTNER WHO IS EQUALLY ORIENTED IN THIS DEVOTIONAL WAY, would be a direct way of counteracting the traumatic memories that are being held in the body/cellular structure....as well as the emotional, psych, spiritual, mental structures as well..

As I was contemplating this chart last night, a scenario flew into my brain that really seems to connect to the trauma signature in this chart.  This scenario connects to a very recent life, either the immediate prior lifetime, or the one directly before.  In this life the soul was a male, and he shared a profound connection with his sister.  Following numerous lifetimes of social exclusion, persecution, projection, etc. the soul was in an inner condition of feeling utterly alienated from and within the world.  This sister was a natural soul just like himself, and thus she could see his true nature, appreciate it, and related with him on that level.  This relationship was the essence of the juno symbol that I described earlier.  She was the one soul in his life that he experienced a like-mindedness with, and hence they were very, very close. 

One factor that intensified this closeness was the factor of their home environment being utterly abusive, violent, defeating, and traumatic.   This was directly linked to the father, who had a chronic behavior of taking out his inner rage, frustration, and restlessness on this soul and the sister.  The sister was subjected to frequent, agressive sexual abuse by that father.   Any efforts on her part to resist were met with outright physical violence..so she learned to comply.   

The soul (i.e. this chart) was keenly aware of the torment this abuse created in his sister, but didn't know how he could stop it because the father had them living in fear.  He was so volatile that any hint of objection would be answered with intimidation and beatings.  In addition to abuse by physical violence, this soul received intense, ongoing abuse of humiliation--it was as if the father’s mission in life was to break the soul down through any and every possible message and opportunity to inflame self-doubt and make this soul experience essential powerlessness and inferiority.  As a coping mechanism to the nightmarish presence that the father was in both of their lives, the two siblings began a progressively deepening sexual relationship.  This brought comfort to both of them.  It helped them deal with the intense trauma of the shared reality within the home.  Furthermore, these souls were indeed of like-mind and very close emotionally.  She reflected exactly the kind of partner he needed, and he reflected the same for her.  The connection of Egypt is key right here, because this served as a subconscious reference in initiation point of a sexualized relationship: i.e. it was a cultural norm in the Egyptian lifetimes (or lifetime..no clue how many) for family members to be sexual with one another.  And therefore, in the context of this recent lifetime the ONLY factor that made sexual contact between these souls feel wrong was the fact that it was now a major cultural taboo.  From the inner perspective of each of them, this relationship/content was natural..and equally/mutually consensual.  Following through from lifetimes of various sexual traumas, and the current life sexual trauma of the sister,  the sexual merging that occurred between these two actually put them in touch with, and allowed them experience, more of the true essence and power of sexual energy than socially 'appropriate' relationships they've had in their preceeding lives.  It was healing for both of them.  Well...at some point this violent asshole father caught them in the act and utterly blew his cap in the discovery.  He immediately went after the sister and started to relentlessly beat her.  The soul found himself unable to stop this and was forced to watch every bloody traumatizing second of it.  The beating killed her.  And the soul watched this entire thing happen right in front of face.  When the realization hit that she was in fact dead, the soul found himself overwhelmed with one thought:  ’It’s my fault.’   He saw himself as the sole reason for his sister being beaten to death…and within this are two critical interpretations:  1) because he had been sexual with her, she died.  2) because he acted on his own desires, she died.   This trauma created unspeakable inner grief and guilt in the soul and has been deeply internalized.  These internalized dynamics have been carried into the current life, and part of the skipped steps--and a key intention within juno--is to realize the actual objective causes for that event..to realize there were other reasons…reasons within ALL parties involved, including the sister...and allowing this kind of relationship to be recreated in the current life in a way that can be sustained.  Inwardly coming to the previous realizations will provide the opening for self-forgiveness..and REINTERPRETATION.  These two things—inner forgiveness and reinterpretation—will allow the soul to throw off the mental constructs that have created blockages within his sexuality and inner freedom to act on his own instinctual desires/impulses.   

Does this connect intuitively?

By the way..I just wanted to say that the fact I’ve presented this in specific terms does not mean I expect it be taken literally as if confirmed-accurate fact.  It's purely intuitive content..reflected in the core theme of pluto/uranus/mars squaring the nodes (and 6th stellium of which juno is a part) and opposing chiron/vesta…also the 8th house moon in aq and its inconjuncts to the 3rd house.  Also the jupiter rx signature that you pointed out earlier (P.S. note the intercepted signs in 5th/11th).    Also factored into this is saturn and its aspects, mercury (conjunct Juno in sag and BM Lilith in cap) and its aspects..and the resolution nodes for the skipped steps.    I can go back and state these correlations more directly in the actual body of text if you (or anyone) wishes. 

Great job of tuning into that sibling/sexualized relationship dynamic, Ari.  Key piece of the puzzle.


Quote
And so in this life, committing to a partner with whom they can both share a deep commitment to the truth, and relearn true intimacy with God through sexual union. However a part of this process will require a de-conditioning by way of working through pl trauma that manifests as dissociation when it comes to sexuality. It is interesting to note that this soul is in a very loving and committed relationship with another woman. They both love each other very much, however there is no sexual connection. I feel this explains why.

Brilliant observation..

God'dess Bless

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 23, 2010, 06:07 PM
Hi Linda,

Yes of course, happy to do that.  Getting ready to run an errand, but I'll be back later to post the correlations.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 23, 2010, 09:37 PM
Stacie, that was just beautiful. Thank you for exploring all of that.

I'm glad you mentioned that the whole sister story is an intuitive application upon the archetypes. However, when I look at the archetypes involved, I recognize that something so close to that must have been a reality.

Would you mind clarifying where in your interpretation you understood the Moon inconjunct the Virgo stellium- I couldn't quite see that.
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 24, 2010, 03:36 AM
Ok Linda..


Quote
Quote
This of course is a natural soul..in this life what you could call a ‘natural man’.
.......... in the past the soul has chosen to commit itself to partners who reflect the qualities and circumstances of elite social status...the compensatory intention being to associate itself with the symbols that were highly valued by society..the soul trying to make itself an extension of those symbols so that it too would be valued.  

Hi Stacie,

Could you please confirm where the above astrological correlations are found in the chart.


This is a combination of evolutionary state and the dominant mutable archetype represented in the chart.  pluto/uranus/mars is in virgo/3rd..SN in sagg/6th conjunct the sun and juno (and by extension pluto’s ruler mercury)..NN in gemini 12th..chiron and vesta in pisces/9th…saturn in 9th.  Also SN and NN of venus, SN of mercury, and SN of uranus are also in that 6th house in sag.. Black moon lilith in 6th..  

Saggitarius is the root archetype of natural law.  The ‘totality’ of natural law as a conscious living web or universe..Nature..Gaia..daemon consciousness..correlates to the entire mutable archetype: gemini, virgo, saggitarius, pisces.  

The Galactic Center is roughly 28/29 sagg.  Wolf has said that planets within a degree of this point can be indicative of daemon souls.  But there are also daemon charts where this point is occupied by nothing.  The signature in Ari's example chart would certainly support the potential of a daemon soul, but it actually isn't possible to know without the direct observation (I imagine Ari has a sense of this through his observation).  In this way it is similar to determining evolutionary state..the symbols alone won't tell you.  A chart can have dominant mutable planets and sign/house combinations and still not be a daemon soul..and a mutable emphasis won't even guarantee that a soul is a 'natural type'.  it is just as possible the emphasis is reflecting a total distortion of what is natural.  However, in this case, the evolutionary state has provided a tipoff that the individual, at minimum, is going to reflect a 'natural man'.  The reason for this is because by the time a soul evolves into the spiritual state, a sufficient amount of deconditioning has already occurred in consciousness prior to the current life.  That deconditioning archetypically promotes a reorientation in consciousness to natural law/reality.  As a soul continues to evolve through the spiritual state that orientation to natural law becomes progressively deeper and intrinsic, whatever the soul type..

Quote
I expect the above quotes refer specifically to Juno 24 deg Cap in the 6th house (conj Galactic Centre - 'daemon soul')?

Bet ya a hundred bucks you meant to say Sagg  ;D   ..answered above..

Quote
And how the need to be "valued by an elitist society" correlating to Cap/7th is a Libran distortion?

It is a libra distortion yes, though what that distortion is based on and driven by is the essential issue..that issue being trauma.  The need to be valued by society and the compulsion to compensate in various ways to make this happen is a direct function of traumatic memory impacting on the subconscious mind.  In other words, for this soul the compulsion to compensate has been subconsciously motivated, and therefore relatively automatic behavior.  The sheer force of subconscious influence in this case is based on the fact that the traumas being accessed in the soul's long term memory are directly linked to SURVIVAL issues.  The power of the survival instinct can never be underestimated.  We can be 100% sure in our egos that we would behave (or not behave) in a particular way regardless of any circumstance, but a triggered survival instinct can motivate behavior/choices/action that the ego never even dreamed it would carry out.  So in this case the survival instinct has been the underlying force in the compulsion to compensate in order to secure appreciation/approval/resources from society…the subconscious message being 'my survival depends on it'.  

The thing about subconscious messages is that they require no rational explanation.  They simply influence behavior independent of the ego's conscious understanding or awareness.  It becomes a troubling and frustrating issue because the person can't figure why they keep doing what they're doing, even as they fully recognize that their behavior is totally counter to their best interests and intentions.  Yet in the end the soul has to move beyond this stuff in order for its evolution to proceed, so it will set up key circumstances which force the nature of the subconscious content/thought pattern to surface into full conscious awareness, through the focus of those current circumstances.  When this happens it generates the famous question of 'why?'.  Each time one makes a choice to consciously focus on/examine/objectify that 'why', the subconscious grip becomes less and conscious self-determination becomes progressively restored, then providing an opportunity for the soul to apply the self-knowledge that was gained. As the self-knowledge is applied, the core issue itself begins to resolve until it is finally culminated.

Quote
Any comments on Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Lilith all near the DC?

Sure, …though I've arrived at that special time where the little mortal needs some sleeps…ha! 'sleeps'..see what I mean?  Be back tomorrow. ;-)

Thanks Stacie!

And thanks to you Linda :-)


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Oct 03, 2010, 10:26 AM
I am so grateful for this forum, and have learned so much from the input of all from questions and responses.

Rad encapsulated the distortion and the natural feminine archetypes, and apparently all the Goddesses will reflect varying themes along the same lines, depending on culture and timing.

Just read a really good article by Betsy Reed in The Nation titled, "Sex and the GOP," which really describes the distortion we are in. The link, if interested, is

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/72-77/3489-sex-and-the-gop

From the article, is that there is an expected decline of women in congress, the first in the past 30 years, "the irony is that, in this so-called, year of the woman, this result will be, more than anything else, an expression of the preference and passions of angry white men."

After Rad mentioned the US Ceres, I went back and found the US Eris is at 8 Capricorn in the 8th house, natally squared by Saturn in Libra, house 5, also sextile to US natal Ceres 8 Pisces in House 10. Then transiting Eris is 21 Aries Rx conjunct US natal Chiron in house 11. There will be more to come, since the transiting nodes have been over US natal Eris, and transiting Pluto and Ceres will also move over US natal Eris.

So I answered my own question about the Tea Party women above. The distorted archeype of Eris is that she felt snubbed, and responded with stirring up anger, strife, discord, very  much what we are seeing now.

Moving away from this, just wanted to express my appreciation for what everyone expresses here--there have been many times, with all of what is going on has been so overwhelming, being able to come here and read and take in what others are feeling and thinking help more than you know.

God Bless.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 03, 2010, 03:10 PM
The sheer force of subconscious influence in this case is based on the fact that the traumas being accessed in the soul's long term memory are directly linked to SURVIVAL issues............... So in this case the survival instinct has been the underlying force in the compulsion to compensate in order to secure appreciation/approval/resources from society…the subconscious message being 'my survival depends on it'.


Hi Stacie,

Thank you so much for your analysis of JUNO in the chart that Ari posted. Everything you described makes complete sense on an intuitive level.  I understand that the "survival issues" correlate to Taurus 11th.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 03, 2010, 05:15 PM
Hi Brenda,

ERIS

Thanks for the article, and for looking at Ceres and Eris in the US chart as they relate to the Tea Party.  The Comment "Faux women for a faux party. Real women need not apply" aptly portrays the two-fold discussion in this thread, namely, "distorted" and "natural" expressions of the Asteroid Goddesses and dwarf planets.

The 560 year cycle of dwarf planet Eris around the Sun puts her presence in people's charts (who are younger than 80) in Aries. 

Eris is the Greek goddess of strife (Latin 'Discordia').  Her Greek opposite is Harmonia (Latin 'Concordia'). 

I will post some more notes for Eris soon.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 04, 2010, 02:28 AM
Eris
Daughter of the Night
Goddess of discord and strife


•  Discovered on 5 January 2005, Pasadena, Calif.
•  Kuiper Belt Object, slightly larger than Pluto, classified as a plutoid, with a 560 year orbit around the Sun.
•  Greek word meaning strife, root of the word "eristic" meaning to strive or dispute, speaking of an argument or controversy.
•  Eris's role in history was to offer a gift that exposed the recipients to their own shortcomings:  vanity, jealousy, anger, fighting, intolerance, envy and possessiveness.
•  In a more positive myth, she stimulated healthy competition.
•  Connected to Libra, discovered while in Aries, makes her an 'uninvited guest.'
•  Eris was named by astronomers, not astrologers.  Myth is a starting point, but it will be many decades before the meaning of this body will be understood in astrology.
•  Eris' current position is 21.49 deg Aries Rx.


The Legend of Eris in Greek Mythology

Short version:   Because of Eris' disagreeable nature she was the only goddess not to be invited to the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, the parents of the Greek hero Achilles.  When she turned up anyway and was refused admittance, in a rage she threw a golden apple amongst the goddesses Hera, Athena and Aphrodite inscribed "To the fairest."  As these were all beautiful goddesses, it was not an easy decision, so a mortal named Paris was chosen to decide who should have the golden apple. Tempted by Aphrodite's offer of the most comely mortal woman, Paris awarded the prize to the goddess of love. The rivalry of the goddesses brought about the events which then led to the Trojan War.


In Hesiod's Works and Days 11–24, two different goddesses named Eris are distinguished:

    So, after all, there was not one kind of Strife alone, but all over the earth there are two. As for the one, a man would praise her when he came to understand her; but the other is blameworthy: and they are wholly different in nature.
    For one fosters evil war and battle, being cruel: her no man loves; but perforce, through the will of the deathless gods, men pay harsh Strife her honour due.
    But the other is the elder daughter of dark Night (Nyx), and the son of Cronus who sits above and dwells in the aether, set her in the roots of the earth: and she is far kinder to men. She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbour, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbour vies with his neighbour as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men. And potter is angry with potter, and craftsman with craftsman, and beggar is jealous of beggar, and minstrel of minstrel.


Eris' position in the Discovery Chart is 19.45 deg Aries Rx.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Oct 04, 2010, 02:39 PM
Hi Linda,

Thanks so much for all the Eris info. I was going to let this lapse, until Rad mentioning US Ceres, and me checking US Eris.

I did not know Eris as daughter of the night, I love the idea of her stirring others to work--as an alternate to how it is seemingly manifesting right now.

Will be out of town and off line for a week, thanks again.

Brenda


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 10, 2010, 08:38 PM
Hi All,

Back to Ceres for a moment...

Ceres is presently at 24 deg Sagittarius, and will enter Capricorn on 8th October 2010.

Ceres conjuncts Pluto in Capricorn on 19th October 2010.

Just read Stephanie Austin's Aries Full Moon (Oct 22-23) column in TMA.  She writes this about Ceres, which I thought was interesting and insightful:

"As the Great Mother goddess, she gave birth to Plutis, the Greek God of the Earth's wealth.  More recent versions of Plutus/Pluto's abduction of Demeter/Ceres' daughter, Persephone, illustrate the domination of matriarchal goddess cults and the Earth by patriarchal forces."

Perhaps there'll be some revelation of this in some way with the full moon...  At any rate, gives great insight, I think.  Ceres, the Great Mother goddess, in undistorted form gives birth to wealth (natural, harmonious, life-sustaining wealth, not distorted, destructive, greed-based wealth).  Pluto, the wealth of the Earth, coming up and abducting Ceres' daughter, disrupting the natural harmony, is a reflection of the patriarchal distortion.  Demeter pining for her daughter - patriarchal distortion.  One view, anyway.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 10, 2010, 08:54 PM
PS I don't mean that Demeter's natural and normal and necessary emotional response to having her daughter abducted is patriarchal distortion.  But that the circumstances that lead to that are.

Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 13, 2010, 03:13 PM
Hi Ellen,

Thanks for sharing your insights on Ceres.  The creation of the Greek sky gods correlated to a time of destruction of the natural harmony.  The Greek myths are full of mayhem, murder, chaos, abduction, greed, jealousy, bribery, vanity.....  These distortions were virtually unheard of during the matriarchy.

Quote by Rad: It could be very useful to examine the patriarchal overlay/projections into these natural asteroid Goddesses. And in that examination to recreate the actual, NATURAL, meanings and correlations to those asteroids.

I wonder if there are any other myths that can be drawn upon that can give insight into the natural behaviours of the asteroid goddesses?   Take Eris, for example.  What is the natural undistorted expression of Eris?  I found it very difficult to find any natural meaning there at all;  the myth was completely dominated by the patriarchal distortions of human nature.   

Why did Eris have such a disagreeable nature?  It all began with not being invited to the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, or someone 'forgetting' to invite her.  Once she decided to turn up to the wedding anyway, she was refused admittance.  This omission and exclusion then lead to a chain of disastrous events. 

Eris's rage actually began with NON-INCLUSION, the distortion of the Natural Law of "inclusion."   


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: mountainheather on Oct 14, 2010, 06:45 PM
Hi all,
I've been following this thread, and although my knowledge of Greek mythology is limited, I find myself repeatedly going to the book The Women WHo Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes.  She has delved very deeply and soulfully into the many ways the divine feminine, which she calls the Wild Woman archetype, is distorted by our conditioning. Is anyone else familiar with her work?  She uses myth and story telling to describethe archetypes involved in how the feminine is distorted and how it can be reclaimed. Her version of the story of Sedna for example, is quite different than what I've seen elsewhere, a much more empowered summary.  I will see if there are any other parrallels with the other asteroids listed here.
With love for the Wild Woman and Natural Law, Heather   


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 14, 2010, 07:23 PM
Her version of the story of Sedna for example, is quite different than what I've seen elsewhere, a much more empowered summary.  I will see if there are any other parrallels with the other asteroids listed here.
With love for the Wild Woman and Natural Law, Heather   

Hi Heather,

I have heard of her, from many years back.  I know I've heard her speak, not in person, but via video or on tv.  I haven't read her book, though.  Could you give a brief summary of her version of the Sedna myth?

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: mountainheather on Oct 14, 2010, 09:46 PM
Hi Ellen,
Yes, I will send you a summary, I am not at home for the next couple of days but I'll check it out when I get back.
peace be with you too. Heather


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Oct 15, 2010, 10:20 AM
Hi All,

 My thoughts on Eris is that she does not correlate or symbolize anything about the natural feminine in the totality of what a what the natural feminine principle/ archetype is. To me, this creation of Eris comes out of, and manifested by, hopelessly distorted men who, in turn, have distorted the natural feminine because of their own distortions. Thus, the 'projection' of this manifesting as the 'creation' of that 'goddess' by them. In other words, there is no natural feminine to reclaim in this one.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 15, 2010, 02:57 PM
Thank you Rad - my thoughts exactly.  Eris is just a fabrication of distorted men.  I would like to see some deeper meanings emerge for this asteroid as time goes on.  Surely there would have been alternative meanings for the discovery of this asteroid?  Astronomers named this asteroid "Eris" after first naming her "Zena" (after the TV show).  Surely, astrologers during the time of the discovery must have come up with something more sensible.  I wonder if a deeper meaning / symbology can be found for Eris? 

Next, I'll be posting summaries for Lilith and Amazone very soon.  I'm waiting to receive Kristin's CD about Lilith in the mail.  Hope you're around Kristin - we would love your input into these ones! :D


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 15, 2010, 03:10 PM
Hi Linda, All,

I emailed Stephanie Austin to ask her if she could provide some sources that get beyond patriarchal distortions.  Here's part of her response:

"The sources I used are:

God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further.
Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

She also said she probably did some internet searching (she was thinking specifically of the Oct 22 Full Moon).

I suspect many here already know about these sources, but thought I'd share them for those who don't.

Peace,
Ellen



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Oct 15, 2010, 05:23 PM
God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further.
Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

Wow, this is great Ellen.  Stephanie Austin referenced the matriarchal connections to Saturn too over the summer.  I'm going to look for the article.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 15, 2010, 10:27 PM
God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further.
Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

Wow, this is great Ellen.  Stephanie Austin referenced the matriarchal connections to Saturn too over the summer.  I'm going to look for the article.



Hi Wendy,

Yes, I remember that and remember you mentioning it.  I remember feeling just blown away by what she wrote - like just scraped away layers of garbage.  I'll have to go back and look too as I don't remember the details.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: kburgess on Oct 16, 2010, 04:44 PM
Hi all, Early Greek worship of Hera, similar to those of all of the Greek goddesses, involve some notion of fertility.  Sites of Hera worship pre-date those dedicated to Zeus, meaning that worship of her pre-dates that of worship of Zeus.    ;)

-Kim


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 16, 2010, 05:34 PM
Hi Kim,

Hera (Juno)

Welcome to the MB.  You're right, the Greek myth of Hera goes back long before Zeus!

When the Romans conquered Greece in the 3rd century BCE, the two cultures mixed, and so too did their gods and goddesses (Roman "Juno" and Greek "Hera").

In the oral tradition of storytelling passed down by poets and minstrels it was said that the Milky Way was formed from Hera's breast milk.  As the Queen of Heaven, she was the ultimate protector, nurturer and loving mother figure of women throughout their lives.  

Temples were erected in her honor throughout Greece with Argos at Peloponnesus being her main sanctuary.  Many Greeks sought the Great Lady's blessings to enrich and protect their lives.

We can see the patriarchal take-over of the nurturing and loving queen Hera through her marriage to Zeus and his subsequent betrayal and violation of her trust.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: mountainheather on Oct 19, 2010, 06:00 PM


Here is some thoughts about Sedna aka Skeleton Woman:

According to Clarissa Pinkola Estes in the book Women Who Runs with The Wolves the Sedna myth is a Life/Death/Life myth.
 
The LIfe/ Death/ Life nature is an deep inner knowing of the natural cycles of something coming in to being and then something ending.... and then something coming into being again.  Sedna wants us to be in touch with her via our emotional selves, for us to be able to abide with her at the deepest level, in loss and creation, to trust this cycle.  The distortion of patriarchy is the attempt to control this cycle mostly out of fear of death (all forms of death: body, ego, etc), not seeing that life emerges naturally after death too.  I'm not sure how this fits astrologically but it felt relevant to our exploration of the archetype.
 

Heather



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 19, 2010, 07:34 PM
Hi Heather,

Thanks for passing on what you found regarding Estes' thoughts on Sedna.  This is very similar to Rad's interpretation of the Sedna discovery chart:

Rad's quote:  In essence, if the patriarchal distortion to reality continues, the violations to natural laws as a result, then this would suggest and symbolize, to me, the extinction of the human species down the line. We can see in this chart that the core violation to Natural Laws that would equal that possibility being the violation of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion, versus the patriarchal perversion which became self interest and exclusion.

The Greek/Roman myths are so filled with patriarchal distortions, that it is refreshing to read other sources for interpretations and meanings of the asteroids.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 24, 2010, 07:27 PM

Amazon (or Amazone)


Kristin's quote:  She is known to be the greatest female warrior. She takes the lead and drives this movement forward. She says "FOLLOW ME".  The Amazon has been known to single handedly destroy armies of men in order to defend her people and their rights. In this case she represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Her energy is reflected in Rad's quote below.

Rad's quote: The entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not.
 

The asteroid Amazon was discovered on 22 April 1925 by K. Reinmuth, Heidelberg.  The name "Amazone" was proposed by Gustav Stracke in 1925 after the Amazon River.

In Greek mythology "Amazon" is a group or nation of all-female warriors in a region bordering Scythia in Sarmatia (modern territory of Ukraine).  Other historiographers place them in Asia Minor, Libya or India.

The mythic all-female warrior society succumbed to the likes of Heracles and Theseus, and symbolised the triumph of Greek civilization over the barbarian.

Greek mythological Amazons were:
* Antiope, daughter of Ares, lover of Zeus, she was taken prisoner by Hercules and given in marriage to Theseus.
* Penthesilea, Amazon queen, ally of Troy in the Trojan War, she fought
against Achilles by whom she was slain.
* Hippolyte, Amazon queen, sister of Penthesilea.

Queen Penthesilea at Troy was quoted as saying, "Not in strength are we inferior to men;  the same our eyes, our limbs the same;  one common light we see, one air we breathe;  nor different is the food we eat.  What then denied to us hath heaven on man bestowed."

The origin of the word "Amazon" is uncertain.  Derived from various  ethnonym's (ethnic groups):  'warriors' (Iran);  'to make war' (Persia);  'manless, without husbands' (Greek);  'without breast' (Greek).

Among Classical Greek tradition, the Amazons had their right breast cut off or burnt out, so they would be able to use a bow more freely and throw spears without the physical limitation and obstruction;  there is no indication of such a practice in works of art, in which the Amazons are always represented with both breasts, although the right is frequently covered.

The myths of the Amazons are a significant part of human culture.  The Amazon myth was embraced by Greece, and from there spread all over the world.  They were the earliest symbols of a society's fear of feminism.  They questioned the order of life and rose against it.  They would not allow themselves to be treated as less than human.

Historically, Amazons were portrayed as beautiful women in Amazonomachies, an art-form showing battles between the Amazons and Greeks.  Amazons were trained to use all weapons and especially in single combat.  They were honorable, courageous, brave and represented rebellion against sexism.  Their tales spread quickly and soon stories of the Amazons were everywhere, including Africa, Asia, Europe, South America (the Amazon River was named after the female warriors), and North America.

In 1542, Francisco de Orellana reached the Amazon River (Amazonas in Spanish), naming it after a tribe of warlike women he claimed having encountered and fought there.  The whole basin and region of the Amazon (Amazonía in Spanish) were named after the river.  Medieval traveller John Mandeville wrote:  "Beside the land of Chaldea is the land of Amazonia, that is the land of Feminye.  And in that real is all woman and no man;  not as some may say, that men may not live there, but for because that the women will not suffer no men amongst them to be their sovereigns."

Classicist Peter Walcot wrote, "Wherever the Amazons are located by the Greeks, whether it is somewhere along the Black Sea in the distant north-east, or in Libya in the furthest south, it is always beyond the confines of the civilized world. The Amazons exist outside the range of normal human experience."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16fvTonR_gA&feature=related
Unknown Amazonian rain forest tribe, the archetypal self-sufficient society:  The men, carrying bows and arrows, had painted themselves in red and black, signifying war or danger.  They were very very afraid, and there was a clear message: "Go away, we don't want contact."  They are experts at living totally sustainably in the environment in a very self-sufficient way. 
http://www.amazon-indians.org/Matis-Video-01.html


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Oct 25, 2010, 12:31 PM
HI Linda,

Thanks so much for all the research on Amazone.

Just some more thoughts about her...

She is the wildest of all the goddesses and she rules the 3rd chakra, along with Mars and Pluto. Fight or flight. She operates in her natural form via pure instinct, holding nothing back, and she needs absolute freedom to express herself.

In her most natural form she is totally independent, and self-sustaining, totally complete in and unto herself, aligned with Gaia and goddess and the animal kindom..all of mother nature. She has a keen emotional intelligence like that of an animal.

Her natal placement reflects where a Soul can take the LEAD in their life.  Take Joan of Arc for example. She has Amazone in Aries, in the 10th house. A female leading armies of men who was ultimately burned to death - so explicit and all seen in that one symbol.

Currently transiting Amazone is 13 Virgo Which is currently conjunct the North Node of Venus, and here we are talking about her fight for equality, her desire to even the scales in society again.

I have a passage I want to share and will do that when I get a moment..

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Oct 26, 2010, 09:56 AM
EXAMPLE of AMAZONE in a MALE"S chart!

so I checked out JWG's chart out..and is this a coincidence? - he has natal Amazone at 13 Virgo..so an Amazone return right now as we are talking about the AMAZONE.

Wolf has Amazone in Virgo 13 degrees in the 10th house-

This placement can been seen in his desire to empower women in the EA work and empowering women in the world, and to help them heal the repression. He has a true sensitivity for the downtrodden, the underdog, and the less fortunate Souls and woman's power has been snuffed out for centuries due to patriarchal influence. He mentioned having many lives as a woman, so he knows firsthand those wounds too.


The Amazone placement also reflects his own blending of both genders, the equal mix of the two - the 10th house being a house that reflects the male gender, Amazone placement there -the wild woman, the other side of gender but an archetype that naturally embodies male and female qualities. Her strength when naturally operating  is in the coequal balance between the two.
He is a Soul who has actualized both sides of gender and so visually looked male/female at the same time, also a reflection of his stage of evolution.

peace,
kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 04, 2010, 12:19 AM
Amazone

Thanks Kristin for the great info!  It was very interesting to learn that Jeff's Amazone is at 13 deg Virgo.  T-Pluto in Cap will be trining his Amazone in several years time, during which his teachings to empower and heal women in the world could be heightened.  That's certainly happening for myself.

Just reporting that I had a dream a few nights ago in which appeared an Amazone woman (an aspect of my self) - she was VERY tall, about 10 foot, had olive skin, brown hair.  At first I was a little frightened, but after a short while she put me at ease because she was actually very friendly.


Pallas

I see from your Radio Show, Kristin, that Demetra George will be joining you very soon to talk about Pallas.  I'll put together some research findings, and interested students can listen to the show and contribute their thoughts here as to the "natural undistorted expression" of Pallas. 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 06, 2010, 11:06 AM
Hi Lind etal,

Thanks for sharing the dream. Of course the Amazone can be so intimidating at first. Her energy and stature is designed for that very reason because she is bred not only to lead but to protect, a powerful Wild Woman, not just because of her size and strength but because of her connection to the animal kingdom. Your awareness is so keen in your realization that the Amazone was an aspect of yourself. There is a warrior in all women in terms of where they initiate their own unique individuality and how they express their nature to the world.
Every woman is rooted in a certain chakra ie designed by God/dess with the inherent strength of that chakra and the archetypes reflected in that energy center. But the goal, although rooted in one, is to EMBODY ALL of the goddess archetypes within you. To have all the chakras open, alive and pumping.

For example, the Amazone may be rooted in chakra #3 - pure instinct - but she would need to access the heart - bhakti, to find compassion in certain situations to do the right thing. She may need to come from the heart to make the right decision and this would require that the heart be open as well. She would need her psychic senses to be sharp to sense when there is danger near and this is reflected in the 6th chakra and so on....

"To find the Wild Woman, it is necessary, for women to return to their instinctive lives, their deepest knowing. So let us push on now and remember ourselves back to the Wild Woman Soul. Let us sing her flesh back onto our bones. Shed any false coats we have been given. Don the true coat of powerful instinct and knowing. Infiltrate the psychic lands that once belonged to us. Unfurl the bandages, ready the medicine. Let us return now, wild woman howling, laughing, singing up to The One who loves us so. For us the issue is simple. Without Us , Wild Woman dies, Without Wild Woman, we die.

Para Vida, for true life, we both must live!"

(Excerpt from "Women who run with the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estes)

Yes..looking forward now to Palls and the show with Demetra next week.
Thanks Linda for all of your efforts and contributions..

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 09, 2010, 02:38 PM
To all who are interested in listening to Kristin's interview with Demetra George on "Pallas" in a few day's time, here's a link to Guiding Stars Radio:

http://www.healthylife.net/RadioShow/archiveGS.htm






Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Nov 11, 2010, 10:34 PM
Here's an interesting link about women in the Amazon and their relations.  I thought it appropro for our recent discussion of the asteroid Amazon.

http://io9.com/5687207/in-the-ancient-amazon-children-had-many-fathers-+-and-women-many-lovers (http://io9.com/5687207/in-the-ancient-amazon-children-had-many-fathers-+-and-women-many-lovers)

Blessed Be,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 13, 2010, 12:04 PM
HI all,

Wendy..thanks for that link..not too many natural tribes left. Also feel it is important to remind people that the Amazon does not just come from the Amazon basin but she is an archetype who has been born out of  many cultures from Crete, to India to Europe and of course she still exists across the globe today.

***

Thanks also Linda for posting the radio link. We had a wonderful show with Demetra George. Loads of valuable insights on Pallas. Linda, I know you are researching more about Pallas and will soon share but I thought I would add a few thoughts on the heels of this interview with Demetra which is available in the archives for those of you who missed it.

As I mentioned on air what I found most impressive about Pallas is her ability to HOLD HER OWN in a man's world. (unfortunately she was denied her femininity, to operate like a man, in order to maintain her freedom) Demetra shared that when asked who the most important Goddess is in Modern women, she said unequivocally Pallas Athene because while all of the other Greek Goddess as part of the patriarchal insurgence were demoted and demeaned and respectable women locked in their home, Palls had the FREEDOM TO WALK AS AN EQUAL.

I remember Wolf sharing that Pallas rules the Medulla thus connects to PSYCHIC DOWNLOADS and so I checked his chart to see where Pallas landed. For those of you that do not have his data  -
Dec 2,1946 4:52am, Hollywood,Ca.

His Pallas is 19 Capricorn, which happens to be conjunct his South Node of Pluto in his second house., The ruler is Saturn, which is in his 9th house and is balsamic to his natal Pluto in Leo. This reflect the psychic downloads on all the ENTIRE PLUTO BOOK that came into him, Yukteswar was a Taurus by the way and Wolf's Pallas is in a Taurus house. The ruler being Saturn in Leo, the AUTHORITY, the Father of this knowledge, in the 9th, the work going global, international and having a far reaching impact.
This ninth house energy also reflects the teaching of Natural Law and the balsamic conjunction to Pluto reflects the ancient wisdom that it is.
His Pluto and Saturn also trines his Sun and South Node, South Node of Uranus and South Node of Venus which re-states pulling natural truths from the past and having all the memories that go with it., South Node of Uranus on his South node. Uranus connects to long term memory.
Wolf's Pallas at 19 Cap also sextiles his Moon in Pisces in the 4th reflecting his focus on empowering women and healing the distortions. Pallas sextiles his Venus Rx Scorpio on the other side which restates this need to re-establish Soul balance on Earth and the importance of not denying our essential Soul need for balance and the importance to recover the feminine power.
His Mercury, the ruler of his North Node in Gemini, is conjunct that Venus rx and Jupiter - clearly he came her to be a teacher of the Soul..essentially a messenger for God - Jupiter in Scorpio in the 12th.

EA is incredible - I am consistently IN AWE at its precision...What a gift we have been given...thanks Chief!

Namaste,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 13, 2010, 06:15 PM
Hi All,

I have not been able to follow this thread very closely due to time limitations, but I wanted to mention that in the newest issue of The Mountain Astrologer there is an article on Eris.  I haven't read it, but it suggests that Xena is the more appropriate archetype for this asteroid.  Thought that might be of interest.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 13, 2010, 06:28 PM
Thanks Ellen for passing that on. I cannot get The Mountain Astrologer in my country.  If anyone would care to paraphrase the article on Eris/Xena, I'd be grateful, and I'm sure others would be too.  Thanks.

I just listened to Demetra and Kristin last night talking about Pallas. Putting together some notes very soon.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 13, 2010, 07:56 PM
Thanks Ellen for passing that on. I cannot get The Mountain Astrologer in my country.  If anyone would care to paraphrase the article on Eris/Xena, I'd be grateful, and I'm sure others would be too.  Thanks.

I just listened to Demetra and Kristin last night talking about Pallas. Putting together some notes very soon.

Hi Linda,

Bummer about not getting TMA in your country.  I'll try to read through the article tonight and see what I can do for a summary.  In the meantime I emailed the author asking if it might be possible to get a copy of the article that I could email to you.  Hopefully she'll respond and that will be possible.  It looks like the article was excerpted (at least in part) from a recently published book, so that might be something you want to look into.  The book is called, Finding Our Center: Wisdom from the Stars and Planets in Times of Change.  The author is Heather Ensworth.  She's an astrologer, psychologist and Shaman.  Her website is risingmoonhealingcenter.com.

Hope this helps in the meantime.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 13, 2010, 09:39 PM
Summary of the TMA article, Exploring the Meaning of the Dwarf Planet, Eris (Or Is It Really Xena?)
Author: Heather Ensworth
TMA issue #154, Dec/Jan 2011
pp. 59-64
_______________________________
1.)   The dwarf planet Eris was originally named Xena.  The name Eris came about in response to the intense argument among astronomers about how to categorize Pluto, Ceres and Eris.  Ensworth says this:  “Characteristic of all these examples of men and women [she cites Lucy Lawless, Gloria Steinem, Joan Baez, Al Gore and Richard Tarnas] with prominent Eris/Xena chart placements is their tendency to challenge society’s mores and to follow a unique path as reformers.  Such people are frequently targeted with negative projections in much the same way that the dwarf planet was seen as the instigator of conflict among astronomers and was therefore named ‘Eris’” (p. 64).  Extremely interesting and insightful point.
2.)   Eris, like Uranus, was renamed.  And, like Uranus, the original name better reflects the energy of the archetype.  The accepted name, in contrast, seems to contradict the true archetypal energies.  Uranus, for example, being a god who resisted change where Prometheus was the bringer of change.  She says about the Eris myth (Paris, Helen, Troy, etc.): “In the end, the need to be the best, the one chosen from the field of competitors, led to the downfall of all the people involved.  Ironically, the astronomers – in their apparent need to avoid expanding the community of officially designated ‘planets,’ which would result from a more liberal definition of the term – may have set themselves up for ongoing conflict.” (p. 60)
3.)   She makes the really interesting point about the criteria established for planetary status (at the time that Pluto was demoted to a dwarf planet and Ceres, Eris and Sedna were elevated to dwarf status) mirroring the isolated and individualistic ways of the dominant culture of these times.  The criteria are: a) “the planet has to be in orbit around the Sun”; b) “it has to have “sufficient mass so as to be nearly round in shape”; and c) sufficient mass [I think] to “have ‘cleared the neighborhood around its orbit.’”  She says this: “From a philosophical perspective, these new criteria for planetary status, formulated by the IAU, are significant.  In essence, this creates a definition of importance that is characterized by isolation and individualism.  To be a planet, it is important to be large and to so dominate your own field of movement that you are the only primary body in that area of space.  This may reflect our Western cultural idealization of separation and individuation, by which we also measure our human psychological functioning.” (p. 59)
4.)   Continuing on the above insight, she suggests that the dwarf planets, including Eris/Xena, serve the function of bringing us back to a sense of community.  She writes: “All of these planetary bodies are an integral part of a larger community of asteroids and planets; they perhaps bring into our collective consciousness a corrective to the idealization of individuation and a new perspective about connection and community. “  She goes on to write: “At the same time that many scientists are questioning whether our solar system may be part of a binary star system – and just as we are on the cusp of the Age of Aquarius, with its emphasis on collaboration and community – it seems fitting that these new planetary bodies are challenging our cultural over-emphasis on individualism.” (pp. 59-60)
5.)   Xena.  Named by Michael Brown, astronomer, after the t.v. character played by Lucy Lawless.  The archetype: witnessing the destruction of her village as a child, Xena raged through life, seeking revenge for the murder of her family until she realizes that she had become no different than those who destroyed her childhood community.  From this moment on she becomes a warrior for peace and justice.  In a sense, the reverse of the Eris archetype.  Here’s what Ensworth writes: “Xena’s journey represented a spiritual quest without allegiance to any religious institution or defined belief system, and in this sense, it was very Aquarian.  Accompanied by her friends, she roamed across the countryside and formed relationships with the diverse people that she encountered along the way, relating to them without regard to their status, power, or wealth – again, Aquarian traits.  She rebelled against authorities or laws that were not in alignment with what she felt was just and fair, which is also Aquarian.  As part of a modern myth, developed out of modern technology, Xena symbolizes many of the patterns characteristic of the Aquarian Age that we are moving into.”  She goes on to point out that, whereas western culture idealizes logic and duality, Xena “followed her own path, guided by intuition and life experience, in attunement with her body and the natural world around her.  Her spirituality was an embodied one, not one of religious beliefs or dogma….She represents a return to natural law…”
6.)   Ensworth suggests that, because of the eccentricity of her orbit, we should not consider the sign that she is in when interpreting her meaning.   Rather, we should consider the meaning of the constellation through which she is travelling.  Currently, that constellation would be Cetus.  Cetus is in an area of the sky known as “the Water” and is associated with Tiamat.  Tiamat comes from Babylonian and Sumerian mythology and represents the “primordial waters from which all life comes.”  Ensworth writes: “She gave birth to the dragons and serpents, which we know were the earliest images of the Sacred Feminine and the divine… Tiamat was the supreme goddess of the sea and of the source, the chaos, of creation.”  I will end with this final quotation: “So, our new dwarf planet, as she passes through this constellation, reminds us of the depths, the source of all life, and of the power of chaos, the cauldron of creation and destruction.  She heralds the return of the Sacred Feminine and the dissolution and transformation of our current patriarchal belief systems.  She encourages us to let go of our personal stories, to dive deep, and to return to right relationship with Source and with all life.”  (P. 61)  Pretty cool.
7.)   One final thing.  Whereas the official name of Eris’ moon is Dysnomia (“demon of lawlessness”), Xena’s moon is named Gabrielle after Xena’s companion.  Gabrielle “was known for her sensitivity, compassion, and love of mythology, the way in which stories weave meaning and connections in our lives.” (p. 60)

Hope this helps.  I thought it was an EXTREMELY insightful article.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 14, 2010, 10:15 AM
One thing that is interesting to me is that the area of sky known as the Water is in the southern part of the sky.  Given that our current orientation in terms of isolation, individualism and dominance seems to be driven by a northern dominance, this southern location is interesting...

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 14, 2010, 09:12 PM
Thanks Ellen for that summary of the TMA article on Eris - it will be very helpful and useful to EA students.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 14, 2010, 09:34 PM
PALLAS ATHENA


Kristin Fontana interviews Demetra George


“The most important goddess for modern women is unequivocally Pallas Athena.”
“She is a very poignant image for the emergence of the feminine consciousness
and power that is occurring in the last few decades.”
 –  DG


Description
•  In the mandala of the asteroid goddesses, Ceres is placed on the IC and Pallas Athena on the MC.  
•  Ceres represents using the creative sexual energy to give birth to children, and to grow food in the seasons.
•  Pallas Athena reverses that direction.  She takes that sexual creative energy and, instead of moving it out through the genital organs, moves it up the central spinal canal so that it comes out of the top of the head – as giving birth to our mental and artistic children.
•  She represents the nature of our creative mind as manifesting and giving forth our realized accomplishments in the world.  
 

Greek myth
•  Born out of the top of the head of her father Jupiter as his brain child, goddess of wisdom, goddess of war.
•  Took her place at the right hand side of her father as his favourite daughter.  
•  (In classical versions of the myth) she was a virgin goddess denied having any consorts or lovers or children.  She was dressed in cold steel war armour to cover up any aspect of her womanly body.  
•  The myth denied her ever having had a mother at all, and that Jupiter was her only parent.  
•  There was a contest between her and Poseidon (Neptune).  Whoever could give the city the better gift would be awarded rulership of the city.  Neptune took his trident and stuck it in the rock on top of the Acropolis and out came a salt spring. Pallas Athena planted an olive tree.  It was decided that the olive tree was a much better gift because it provided food and shelter and shade.  She became the ruling goddess of Athens.  
•  Neptune got mad:  Women would no longer be able to keep their own names but had to use their father’s names. They were no longer allowed to own their property, and no longer allowed to give their names to their children.
•  Having won the contest, women were going to have to suffer and pay for it.  Here we see one of the transitions between the matriarchal and patriarchal perspectives.  
•  While all of the other Greek goddesses (particularly as the patriarchal period became more entrenched) were demoted and demeaned, Pallas Athena was the image of a women who was strong, smart, creative, intelligent, powerful, who had the freedom to walk as an equal in the world of men.  
•  “She had the freedom to walk as an equal,” but paid a very dear price for this privilege:  the denial of her femininity.
•  Protector of Athens, to protect and defend the people of her city, very strong warrior aspect.  
•  Was considered to be a better warrior goddess than Mars was god.  Was valued by the Greeks for her mind.  Mars used brute strength, she used her wit.


Kundalini – Serpent power
•  In earlier symbolism of Athena, she is depicted in statues with a huge serpent at her side.
•  Sacred serpents lived in the most holy temple on the Acropolis, were fed milk and honey cakes, and were part of the rites.
•  On her breastplate she wears the head of the gorgon Medusa whose head is filled with winding serpents.  
•  Her original nature is the goddess of the serpent power.  
•  The serpent that guarded the oracular temples was understood as the symbol of wisdom.
•  The serpent was always connected with wisdom and healing.  
•  Bible says, ‘Be ye wise as a serpent.’
•  Behind the cold, strategic, logical, rational goddess of war that the patriarchy projected her as, this is the goddess who holds the secrets of the kundalini serpent energy/power of wisdom and healing coiled at the base of the spine.
•  Her energy moves up through the chakras.  Associated with Scorpio energy, upper chakras, 3rd eye, crown chakra, very psychic.
•  Indian Yogic tradition, alternate nostril breathing, balances the male and feminine channels, awakens kundalini coiled at the base of our spine, it rises upward through the spinal canal, and comes out of the top of the head as cosmic illumination (Pallas Athena).
•  Serpents and the goddess were paired together from the earliest imagery in ancient Sumeria, 3000 BC:  images of the goddess with serpent heads or nursing serpent babies on their breast.  
•  Very popular images of goddess from Crete and Babylonia holding two serpents in each hand.
•  Egyptian goddess associated with wisdom and war, depicted with the cobra.  Skeletons of serpents found in the ruins of her ancient oracle city.  
•  Northern Africa, Libya, Goddess “Anassa,” the precursor of Athena, had 3 forms:  maiden, mother, crow, embodied women as wise, strong warriors.
•  Another aspect of this trinity was Medusa, the serpent haired queen of wisdom, associated with the 3rd phase of the trinity, magic, regeneration, sexual mysteries.  
•  In ancient arts, when serpents were depicted on goddesses, below the waist was associated with fertility, above the waist, especially on the head, was associated with wisdom.  
•  Worshiped in Crete, became known as Athena protector of the palace. Serpents would eat the milk and honey prepared for them.  
•  From the Mycenaean Greeks we get Athena’s birth story to Jupiter here.  Jupiter involved in war against his father Saturn.  Sea goddess Mentes (middle of this trinity) gives Jupiter a potion that causes Saturn to vomit up swallowed brothers and sisters.  They take up arms, and win the war.  Jupiter, as king, ordered Mentes to be his consort, she refused, he pursued, and she became pregnant with Athena.  An oracle told of Mentes pregnancy to a second child to supersede Jupiter, but in order to prevent it, he swallowed Mentes whole.  One day, walking along the shores of Lake Tritonis in Libya (lake of the triple queen), Jupiter gets a headache.  His head is axed open and out springs Athena his daughter dressed in full armour.
•  Robert Graves says she represents the ingestion and adaptation of the old feminine wisdom principle to the needs of the new patriarchal order.  
•  From this myth, in the level of yogic practice, we see that through internalization of the goddess Mentes pregnant with Athena, Jupiter, through him absorbing the contra-sexual polarity into himself, awakened the kundalini – and that consciousness came out through his head.  
•  Athena wears the Medusa serpent on her breastplate whose hair is filled with snakes and represents the awakening of the kundalini (pure electricity and power), her secret nature behind the logical strategic goddess of war.  


Modern message of the Athena archetype
•  Dilemma:  If you are a women and you want to be strong and powerful in men’s territory, they won’t consider you to be a real woman, and will deny you the validation of protection and relationship.  
•  Women who want to be as good as they possibly can in their chosen field often at the cost of intimate relationships and family.  
•  Girls at school whose intelligence is too threatening to the male ego.
•  What does it mean to be a modern Athena woman (and man)?  The movement toward androgyny (asexuality) that Athena represents, born of the androgynous condition of her father Jupiter, where he assimilated the feminine into himself.  
•  Not being polarized at the sexual extremes (“girly” woman or “macho” guy), but balancing the male and female energy within, calling up the contra (opposite) sexual polarity.  
•  Women who are smart, good in sports, warriors in the world.
•  Men, in their feminine polarity, who excel in the arts and other areas.  
•  Clever girls at school seen as too threatening to be asked on dates – or men being great friends but not dateable material – because they both don’t conform to the extreme sexual stereotypes.
•  Tremendous frustration of sexual energy puts pressure on the kundalini as the energy to be used for mind and art.
•  Prominent Athena useful and helpful in counseling:  “What is the individual relationship to the contra-sexual polarity within them?  “Has that created frustration in the early part of their life?” “What have they done in terms of that in their own creative process?”


Pallas Athena in the chart
•  Jungian psychology of the armoured Amazon, valuing of one’s rational logical strategic cold analytic qualities that help one succeed in the outer world, and seeing one’s emotions feeling and vulnerabilities as being weak and undesirable. And how that spills over into the issues we have with our fathers, the issues we have in rejecting our mothers or what the feminine represents.  
•  Healing our relationship to our own feminine.
•  Learning how to accept the feminine while in the outer patriarchal world.  
•  The essence of the feminine contains wisdom and strength (these are not only masculine qualities).  
•  The healing of the soul.


Afflicted Pallas
•  Squares or oppositions from Saturn:  the suppression of one’s wisdom nature.
•  Seeing a women as being less feminine or less womanly because of the expression of her wisdom.  
•  The repercussions to being smart, to expressing the pure Athena energy, to being as good as you possibly can be, as the feminine seeks to actualize that in the world.


Famous people with strong Pallas Athena
•  Amelia Earhart, PA on her Asc, “I can do anything a man can do, and I can do it better.”
•  Simone de Beauvoir, lover of Jean Paul Sartre, PA/Moon in the 10th, books on the new wave of feminine consciousness emergence in the early 1900’s.  
•  Marie Curie, winner of Nobel prize.
•  Abraham Lincoln and Charles Darwin, both with PA conjunct Sun in Aquarius.


Many Thanks from EA students
to Kristin and Demetra
for a great informative interview!





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 20, 2010, 12:09 AM
Pallas Athena


Pallas is associated with the AIR element (Scorpio was mentioned earlier on).  Here's an excerpt from Demetra's book, "Astrology for Yourself" --


Associated with the element Air, the Suit of Swords and the Justice Key in the Tarot, and the yellow ray of intellect, she symbolizes getting into our heads.  As the prototype of the artistically creative and intelligent woman, Pallas mirrors our desire to strive for excellence in a chosen field of creative expression. 

Mythologically Pallas was made to deny her femininity in order to exercise her wisdom, courage and creative abilities.  The artificial separation between being intelligent and being a "real woman" lies at the root of the modern day conflict women feel in choosing between career goals and relationship needs.

In the birth chart, Pallas gravitates to working with holistic health techniques that integrate whole patterns of the psyche.  She also governs all mental healing techniques--visualization, meditation, affirmation, guided imagery and hypnosis.


The undistorted, natural Pallas enables us to reconcile the unnecessary separation between our love nature and our mental-creative wisdom. 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Nov 21, 2010, 10:26 PM
hey kristin,

i have wolf's amazone @ 5 virgo in the 10th...is that what you meant to say?

speaking of the correlation to wolf's desire to help/speak out on behalf of the downtrodden:  i'm sure many here remember the fire in wolf's words when he spoke of the injustices/abuses of power that occurred in the GWB administration.  george w. bush has mars at 9 virgo..conjunct wolf's amazone. hmmm..

stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: kburgess on Dec 08, 2010, 07:35 PM
If we look at the pre-Classical (ancient) Greek manifestations of Juno we find that she was a fertility goddess.  Many shrines to her have been found that pre-date those of Zeus indicating that she held great significance before he came along as a god of worship.  If we consider her relationship to fertility (nature) we can perhaps then consider her as our own relationship to our own fecundity/sexuality/creativity.  As time went on and Juno lost strength and became the somewhat demented, hysteric Hera, we see patriarchal energies enervating Juno and diminishing her to the jealous, seething wife of Zeus, pushed to the background while Zeus gets all the glory.   I believe it is necessary in our individual soul's journey to re-energize Juno and to ask ourselves what is it that we are committed to creating? Juno can reveal both our greatest weakness (our so-called patriarchal Achilles heal), as well as our path to commitment to the Divine.    :o  Any thoughts?
-Kim



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Dec 08, 2010, 11:07 PM
Hi Kim,

Good to hear from you again.  Juno is presently at 24 deg Virgo:  could this be describing the patriarchal Achilles heal suffered in sadomasochistic relationships?  Looking very deeply into the state of our relationships continues as Venus moves through Scorpio.    

Quote by Patricia Walsh in the Libra archetype thread:
.....for many who meet those they have unfinished business with, the relationship can have a trance like quality to it. There is something deep in the soul that is desiring completion, and that unconscious desire floods and takes over the consciousness. It's like being possessed by ones own unconscious complexes. But that is how these complexes become conscious... and then can be worked on. In EA we consider Libra to be the precursor to deep committed relationship that happens in Scorpio. To me Libra is more like flirting with the relationship (the worm on the hook) where Scorpio is where one bites and gets hooked). So in Libra (with Venus and Neptune's influence) a relationship can look and feel promising yet can turn out to have a very different reality.

Juno is associated with Libra and Scorpio.

Kim's quote:  
I believe it is necessary in our individual soul's journey to re-energize Juno and to ask ourselves what is it that we are committed to creating? Juno can reveal both our greatest weakness (our so-called patriarchal Achilles heal), as well as our path to commitment to the Divine.

Great quote Kim.  

I just hope that women are striving to make better choices in relationship for equality, balance, commitment, honesty and understanding.  My aim is to educate women to become conscious of their individual complexes and work on them.  Having Juno in Aquarius enables me to take a dispassionate look at my relationships, and gives amazing strength to make the right choices.  And perhaps the asteroid Amazone could be operating there too.

Quote from Kristin:
.....she [Amazon] represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Btw, glad this thread is still happening.  I had intended to return soon.  We'll be looking at Lilith next, unless you'd like to examine another asteroid?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 18, 2011, 09:16 AM
Had to go digging back far for this one. Had  a question, while it is an overall evolutionary impulse to reclaim/integrate the undistorted archetypes--, if a person --looking specifically at the asteroid goddesses, if there were many retrogrades natally or by progression--would it be even more incumbent for that person to reclaim the undistorted archetype in this lifetime?

For a person dealing with this, would they perhaps be confronted with many crises and induce a more inward internalization until this is achieved?

Thank you.

Rad's quote (from an earlier page on this link)-

And, of course, the entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not. The entire message of this natal Sedna chart is to utterly rebel against all that is unnatural. To throw it off, to oppose it. This entire chart is about how women has been used as men's scapegoats, of how they have been defined through the patriarchal distorted centuries as something dark, evil, the 'temptation' to man's spiritual downfall.







Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 19, 2011, 06:27 AM
HI Brenda,

"Had to go digging back far for this one. Had  a question, while it is an overall evolutionary impulse to reclaim/integrate the undistorted archetypes--, if a person --looking specifically at the asteroid goddesses, if there were many retrogrades natally or by progression--would it be even more incumbent for that person to reclaim the undistorted archetype in this lifetime?

***********************

It depends on the evolutionary state of the Soul itself. From the individuated state onwards the answer would be yes yet the recovery would be an ongoing evolutionary process that could be finally realized within the 1st spiritual state.

************************

"For a person dealing with this, would they perhaps be confronted with many crises and induce a more inward internalization until this is achieved?"

************************

This depends, again, on the evolutionary state of the person and other evolutionary factors. This would be one of the ways until internal realization was achieved.

*****************

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 19, 2011, 02:40 PM
Thank you for the clarification, can get tunnel vision here.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Tory on Apr 29, 2012, 04:06 PM
Hi All,

 My thoughts on Eris is that she does not correlate or symbolize anything about the natural feminine in the totality of what a what the natural feminine principle/ archetype is. To me, this creation of Eris comes out of, and manifested by, hopelessly distorted men who, in turn, have distorted the natural feminine because of their own distortions. Thus, the 'projection' of this manifesting as the 'creation' of that 'goddess' by them. In other words, there is no natural feminine to reclaim in this one.

God Bless, Rad

Dear Rad, Linda, Elen,

Thankyou for your insights into Eris
I have a minor question and comment regarding Eris on this previous thread, hope you don't mind?

Quote from wiki:
"According to science writer Govert Schilling, Brown initially wanted to call the object "Lila", after a concept in Hindu mythology that described the cosmos as the outcome of a game played by Brahma. The name was very similar to "Lilah", the name of Brown's newborn daughter. Brown was mindful of not making his name public before it had been officially accepted. He had done so with Sedna a year previously, and had been heavily criticised. However, he listed the address of his personal web page announcing the discovery as /~mbrown/planetlila and in the chaos following the controversy over the discovery of Haumea, forgot to change it. Rather than needlessly anger more of his fellow astronomers, he simply said that the webpage had been named for his daughter and dropped "Lila" from consideration."

Brown's personal web page about Eris still has the same URL
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/

How significant do you think this is? Could this actually be considered Eris's first name? If he changed his mind or didn't follow through i guess the answer is no. Discord and strife seem somehow inherent in the naming process of Eris, or at least confusion (so many different names) and avoiding more upset?

I was surprised when i discovered Brown first wanted to call Eris, sanskrit Lila. I have Eris natally exactly conjunct my sun/IC/ and within orb (couple of degrees) of chiron/mercury/north node. Last year i started a healing centre called "espace Lila", espace in french is another work for centre. Each time i look closely at asteroids in a chart there is this kind of synchronicity, it's amazing.

Light and Respect
Tory



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Apr 30, 2012, 08:05 AM
Hi Tory,

Well, to me, this is similar to when we have a child and we go back and forth with this or that name which then leads to the name we finally decide upon for the child. That then becomes the name of that child for life of course. So, to me, this is why Eris is Eris.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Tory on Apr 30, 2012, 10:23 AM
Hi Tory,

Well, to me, this is similar to when we have a child and we go back and forth with this or that name which then leads to the name we finally decide upon for the child. That then becomes the name of that child for life of course. So, to me, this is why Eris is Eris.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad

Right, that is a good analogy. My reflection on this situation leads me to think of EA's emphasis on "observation and correlation". Each soul's experience being individual, my experience with Eris leads me to Lila, when for another person it must be an altogether different experience.

Thanks
Tory


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 25, 2013, 07:06 PM
This is a great thread. Did we never get to Lilith? I can't find much through a search. If anyone is up for explaining Lilith from e.a. point of view I would be interested.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Mar 25, 2013, 07:56 PM
Hi Sunyata,

We never got to Lilith, so let's start now.


THE THREE LILITHS


Here are some extracts from Wikipedia, the EA Glossary, and our EA message board:


Asteroid Lilith was discovered on February 11, 1927 by Benjamin Jekhowsky. It is part of the main asteroid belt outside the orbit of Mars. It is named in the honour of French classical music composer Lili Boulanger.  Since Asteroid Lilith is the only verifiable body that exists, there is only one actual discovery chart (see below).


Asteroid Lilith (also called Original Lilith):  1181 on Astrodienst
"True" Black Moon Lilith: h13 (EA uses this one)
"Mean" Black Moon Lilith:  'Lilith' under Additional Objects      [thanks Jason!]
Dark Moon Lilith:  h58, 'Waldermath'


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) is a real asteroid. It is the only Lilith that is an actual, verifiable physical body. In the main asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Takes 4 years to orbit the Sun. Spends 132 days in each sign.

Black Moon Lilith (true/osculating):  Not a solid objection. It is a mathematical point of alignment, the apogee of the Moon’s orbit, furthest away from the Earth. 9 year orbit. Spends 9 months in each sign.  EA uses the True Apogee for Black Moon Lilith.

Dark Moon Lilith is a real body in the sky, a ‘hypothetical planet’ resembling a dust cloud, or a second Moon of Earth. Takes 119 days to orbit the Earth. Spends 10 days in each sign.


“The asteroids are symbolic transformers between two energy systems and point to the techniques by which the lower octave vibrations may be raised to a higher octave.  The Asteroid Lilith describes the first stage in the mythical journey where she is  suppressed, humiliated and flees in a fiery rage to the desolate wilderness.  The Dark Moon Lilith depicts the pain of her exile where she plots and executes revenge.  The Black Moon Lilith shows how she transmutes her distorted image back into its natural healthy expression.” (Demetra George)


Asteroid Lilith indicates where our WOUND originated.  Dark Moon Lilith signifies how and where we experience the distorted aspects of Lilith in our lives – her anguish, bitterness, betrayal, alienation, fear and hatred of sexuality, and revenge.  Black Moon Lilith shows how and where we cut away our pretensions, false roles, and delusions and actualize who we essentially are. (Adina)


~      ~      ~


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) (4-5 year cycle) describes the original Lilith. We have all ‘imprinted’ in us the original, undistorted, female image, which is defined by the natal placement of an individual’s asteroid Lilith. Where we feel free to move, act and speak our truth. This correlates in the current life to what our underlying ideal image is of a woman. The true and NATURAL expression of Lilith is that of pure, raw, feminine beauty. A woman that would chose freedom over just about anything. She is Pluto and she is also Mars. She was honored and praised for initiating and fully expressing her personal freedom and sexual passion. “In her original state, she is a symbol of true feminine power – complete unto herself and embodying her own brand of feminine self-containment, assertion and wholeness” (O’Donnell). Lilith is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto. (Kristin)

Dark Moon Lilith (119-177 day cycle) signifies how and where we experience the distorted aspects of Lilith in our lives – her anguish, bitterness, betrayal, alienation, fear and hatred of sexuality, and revenge. For centuries men and women have been conditioned by our patriarchal culture to suppress this feminine strength which has resulted in bitterness and resentment, inevitably leading to distortion and rage. How this distortion is played out is indicated by the natal placement of the Dark Moon Lilith. Dark Moon Lilith is the distorted Lilith representing Lilith’s flee into a fiery rage of exile where she plots and executes her revenge. Find your Dark Moon Lilith placement and know that this area ***also creates a channel by which we can release the rage.*** (Kristin)

Black Moon Lilith shows how and where we cut away our pretensions, false roles, and delusions and actualize who we essentially are. The Black Moon Lilith (9 year cycle) is the resolution Lilith where one’s distorted image may be transformed into a natural healthy expression. The dark Goddess’s crescent shape knife cuts away all that is not authentic in our lives. The ENFORCED (I REPEAT ENFORCED) clarity of the Black Moon allows us to penetrate to the essence, eliminating all things that are unnecessary, false and impure. Wherever you find the resolution Lilith in your chart, represents an area where it will take tremendous COURAGE, where you can release the repressed anger from lifetimes and be set free. It is also an area of TRANSFORMATION – creative energy of the feminine GODDESS pours into you. Lilith is the NATURAL WILD WOMAN in the birth chart so the Moon and the Nodes must be incorporated in the interpretation as well as Venus.  Stressful aspects between Black Moon Lilith and Mars, the planet that most clearly expresses the masculine power, may indicate that a woman’s independence and confidence is threatened or met with opposition by men. Her own inner male is not strong.  Women who have hard aspects from Black Moon Lilith to the Moon or in the 5th may have problems with pregnancy or childbirth, possible miscarriage, unwanted pregnancy, or a fear of motherhood. Often times transiting Black Moon Lilith can bring back feelings of emotional pain, but only if it is in the area where you have compromised your primal nature. Lilith forces us to look at ourselves with utter naked EMOTIONAL honesty. (Kristin)






LILITH DISCOVERY CHART

Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) 7.18 Leo Rx (1181) - Appears as 'Lilit'
Dark Moon Lilith 22.10 Cap (h58) - Appears as 'Walde'
True BML 6.29 Virgo (h13) - Appears as OSC.L - EA uses this one
Mean BML 27.35 Virgo (Lilith under Additional Objects) - Appears as Crescent on a cross


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 26, 2013, 05:27 PM
Thanks so much.

So on astrodienst I chose Lilith in the asteroids, then also typed in 1181, h13, and h58 on additional objects and I have the asteroid which is the crescent moon on a cross conjunct my ascendent in the 12th then osc. lilith aslo conjunct my ascendent but in the 1st, then 1181 shows up as lilith but is at 11 libra conjunct my uranus in 1st and then waldermath is in the 12th conjunct my south node..... so I have 4 different things.... but should there only be three?

Ok so I see Dark moon is waldermath, I see osc. Lilith is black moon, then there is an asteroid with the crescent moon on a cross and 1181 which shows up as lilith as well. What is the difference between the last two?



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 26, 2013, 06:39 PM
Hi Sunyata,

The reason that you have four items is because you are displaying:

Asteroid Lilith (shows up in astro.com as "1181")
Dark Moon Lilith (shows up in astro.com as "Waldemath")
True Black Moon Lilith (shows up in astro.com as "Oscillating Lilith")
Mean Black Moon Lilith (shows up in astro.com as Crescent on a Cross)

In EA we use true locations of points vs. their mean locations.  To get rid of Mean Black Moon in your charts on astro.com, just enter the 1181, h13, and h58, and do not choose "Lilith" in the list.  Then you will have the three that are used in EA.

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 26, 2013, 06:48 PM
Thanks, Jason.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 27, 2013, 06:05 PM
"Lilith is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto."

Can you explain how this works or clarify this in whatever way you can? How do we use Lilith as a bridge from the actions of Mars as it relates to incorporating the soul intentions of Pluto?

Are there bridges between Venus/Neptune or Mercury/Uranus?

Thanks,
Sunyata



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Mar 27, 2013, 09:55 PM
Wow, so glad to have complete clarification of the different Lilith's.  I have read about it many times, without gaining real understanding.

Thank you Sunyata for picking up where we left off and Linda for clearly posting how EA uses Lilith.

Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Mar 28, 2013, 08:09 PM
"Lilith is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto."

Can you explain how this works or clarify this in whatever way you can? How do we use Lilith as a bridge from the actions of Mars as it relates to incorporating the soul intentions of Pluto?

Are there bridges between Venus/Neptune or Mercury/Uranus?

Thanks,
Sunyata


Hi Sunyata and Wendy,


The Asteroids act as octave transformers because they dwell BETWEEN the inner-conscious-rational-leftbrain-personal planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars) and the outer transpersonal-unconscious-rightbrain-spiritual planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto), and therefore are seen as "transformers in the archetypal circuitry" by raising lower octave vibrations to a higher octave.  

The role of the Asteroids are to re-awaken the FEMININE energy so that individuals and thus the collective become more whole.  The incorporation of the conscious with the depths of the unconscious requires FEMININE perception, focus, insight, awareness, sensitivity, intuition, imagination, therefore the Asteroids form this necessary "bridge."

A shift is occurring between the thinking-rational processes and becoming more in tune with the emotions.  Individuals cannot give to the Collective a wholeness that they do not yet possess, therefore the Feminine needs to be fostered and nurtured in the evolution of consciousness as we come out of patriarchal conditioning to rectify the imbalance between masculine and feminine.


LOWER OCTAVE

Mercury


Venus


Mars
OCTAVE TRANSFORMER


Pallas (feminine creative energy birthing new ideas)

Juno (sacred marriage, emotional truth)

Lilith (wisdom of the natural world, natural expression)
HIGHER OCTAVE

Uranus


Neptune


Pluto
PERSONAL DESIRE TO ACT FOR THE COLLECTIVE INTEREST

Mercurial mind inspired and transformed by Uranian illuminations.
 
Venus values and feelings raised by Neptunian compassion.

Mars personal desires acting for Plutonian individual/collective evolution.



Love,

Linda





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Mar 29, 2013, 10:24 AM
Hi Linda, Sunyata and Wendy,

Linda beautiful lay out of the octave transformers..and wonderful explanation.

***

I wanted to offer something here to with respect to Lilith. We know that there are different planets that rule the chakras, but these Asteroid Goddesses can also be seen ruling each chakra.

Original Lilith rules the ROOT chakra as she is the undistorted natural feminine, the unconditioned wild woman, independent, totally aligned with natural law, full unto herself. She is your primal feminine ROOT, and the Original Lilith placement for a woman reflects HOW YOU WERE DESIGNED BY GOD/DESS. In a man's chart the Original Lilith placement would reflect a man's ideal image of a woman or how he most naturally actualizes the feminine within.

The Resolution Lilith, otherwise known as the Black Moon (not to be confused with the Dark Moon which is where we have all gotten off course via our distortions), the Black Moon symbolized by the Crescent Moon and cross below and most often seen in Solar Fire, symbolizes the way we get back to our ORIGINAL ROOT, hence the word Resolution. The Resolution Lilith lights the way back to our true feminine self, she shows you HOW to get back home to your unwavering center.

Working with this Lilith trinity is a powerful exercise when you weave it into the Pluto paradigm, especially considering that Lilith is the octave transformer between Pluto and Mars. Once any Soul uncovers and remembers HOW they were originally design, the Mars piece can be adjusted, as in choices made, that can now facilitate evolution. It works like a tuning fork, when any Soul is in harmony with their pure self, the weight of whatever has been collected will start flying off.

Hope this helps,
Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 29, 2013, 01:06 PM
Wonderful information. Thanks so much Linda and Kristin.

Sunyata


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Mar 29, 2013, 01:32 PM
Hi Linda and Kristin,

Thanks so much for posting this information! I'm excited to finally memorize the different Lilith's.  They are very prominent in my chart, so very glad to harness their influence in my soul and evolutionary pattern.

Linda can you change the yellow color to something darker?  I'm having a hard time reading it.  Also Kristin, is Original Lilith #1181?

Thank you and Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Mar 29, 2013, 08:01 PM
ASTRO.COM


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith):  1181 - Appears as 'Lilit'


Dark Moon Lilith:  h58, 'Waldermath' - Appears as 'Walde'


"True" Black Moon Lilith (Resolution Lilith): h13 - Appears as OSC.L (EA uses this one)


"Mean" Black Moon Lilith:  'Lilith' under Additional Objects - Appears as white crescent on a cross    




SOLAR FIRE GOLD:


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) - Chart Options > Extra Ring Points > Asteroid.pte > Edit > Choose Lilith 1181 from Available Points > Add > Save > Select > Appears as Lilith


Dark Moon Lilith (Waltemath) - Chart Options > Extra Ring Points > Jaynehyp.pte > Edit > Choose Dark Moon W'mat2 DkM from Available Points > Add > Save > Select > Appears as DkM


Black Moon Lilith (Resolution Lilith) - Preferences > Edit Settings > Select "True Apogee" > Appears as black moon above a cross  




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on May 10, 2013, 12:06 AM
Regarding the Eclipse of May 10th that falls at 19'31" Taurus, it will be opposing the asteroid Psyche which is at 19'09" rx in Scorpio. I dont know if anyone uses Psyche and Eros (Cupid) in their chart analysis but I found it to be an amazing myth to read .... if anyone has worked with Psyche and wants to elaborate on its meaning that would be great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupid_and_Psyche

"In the Gnostic text On the Origin of the World, the first rose is created from the blood of Psyche when she loses her virginity to Cupid"
-wikipedia


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on May 10, 2013, 02:18 AM
Hi Sunyata,

I checked out the Wikipedia article, but it's the end of the week and I didn't have the stamina to digest it all wholesale. If someone knows about Psyche maybe they could post a brief description...?

Anyway it'll be interesting to observe... Psyche is exactly conjunct SN Mars and close conj to NN Moon (in Scorpio) opposite the Eclipse conj Pallas, Mercury and SN Moon, and Mars (all in Taurus). So not a clear isolated manifestation of it, but it's part of the mix in the Eclipse event.  

blessings Upasika


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on May 10, 2013, 09:10 AM
Hi Upasika and Sunyata,

Demetra George spoke on the Sacred Marriage at our last EA conference and included discussions on Psyche, Vesta and Juno . I highly recommend whoever is interested in these asteroids download her talk. It is for sale on the site here.

***

Psyche = greek meaning of the word SOUL.

In the myth this represents the search for the soul mate union, under the auspices of divine union/energy.

Psyche was the most beautiful mortal, people would flock to her. This made Venus jealous so she sends her son Eros with his bow and arrow to prick her while she is sleeping and cast a spell so that she will fall in love with a monster. Instead he is SO captivated by her beauty, he pricks himself and falls in love with her. In their heavenly castle he comes to her at night. Psyche holds a candle and a dagger in case it is the monster. The situation dissolves because she does not trust him, she doubts him and Psyche is sent back to Earth tattered and in rags, pregnant and alone and looking for Eros. She was then sent to Aphrodite in her desperate attempt to find Eros. She is told in order to be re-united with Eros she was to fulfill a series of tests and trials, each test more impossible than the next, even involving a descent into the underworld -tests that were setting her up to fail. However to everyone's surprise, especially Aphrodite, she succeeds and she is transformed by the Gods into a Goddess and is allowed to marry Eros.

From my observations through synastry it can connect to the Soul mate connection between two people and also that potentially as in the myth that many trials would have to be overcome in order to be together. Via the myth, this is a theme of the pursuit of love against all odds.  It also represents the power of desire/love and when this energy is channeled in such a way, what a Soul can overcome.


In a natal chart, this connects to Souls, depending of course the stage of evolution, with penetrating ability to connect and to understand others with a greater depth, carrying a psychic sense of sorts. For example Jeffrey Green has Psyche in Virgo in the 10th, a SOULWORKER for the sick, he used his psychic lens to help others heal and evolve, those that did not have the capacity to see these things for themselves. He helped the emotionally, psychologically and physically sick, Virgo, via SOUL counseling. It can represent someone who is deeply involved in Soul work of any kind.

If this Psyche is conjunct Venus in someone's chart, If following the myth this would be someone where finding true love and the one true soul mate can be in high focus. If the Psyche/Venus conjunction is making supportive aspects perhaps that soul mate is found. Also I could see this being a symbol for doing deep Soul work together in the world.

As it relates to the transit of Psyche during the New Moon Eclipse, this would certainly reflect pushing the Soul limits for growth, beyond the well of limitation. The opposition represents an opportunity to throw off something from the past that is getting in the way of evolution. Also it could bring those soul mate connections and the growth of the connection into tight focus, to confront-Scorpio and to eliminate all things that are delaying evolution for the couple if that is in question.

Each individual signature is different of course but in general Psyche is about the SOUL and what may be necessary to endure, as witnessed in the myth, in order to fulfill the desires and evolutionary intentions of the Soul.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on May 10, 2013, 08:06 PM
Thank you Kristin, very helpful.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on May 11, 2013, 08:40 AM
Hi Upasika,

Also I meant to share, I do not know your chart, so do not know what house this occurs in for you, but obviously with Psyche on your North Node in Scorpio, Ea is an ideal path forward for you, a Soul intended path forward, a future also as a Soul (Psyche) Worker. Obviously this is not a new path for you as this conjuncts your South Node of Mars so you are bringing many desires forward along these lines, to continue what has been initiated in other times. I too have Psyche conjunct my North Node but it is in Gemini in the 11th, house of astrology. Like all the asteroids, they work well to validate what can already be seen in the chart.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on May 11, 2013, 01:13 PM
Hey Kristin and Upasika,

Thank you Kristin for the interpretation and information. My Psyche is in Gemini 5' as well in the 9th opposing a stellium in the 3rd and exactly square Eros in Pisces 5' in the 6th which is conjunct Pallas.... Transiting Neptune is now on that Eros.... long story, I used to paint then stopped ....started again....( this actually coincided with the North Node transiting over my stelluim...so 18 years in between) and an entirely new painting style has emerged for me in the past 6 months and as I was laying down to fall asleep one night, an incredibly clear image of a tree nymph appeared in my head.... i drew a quick sketch and painted it shortly after.... another painting I am working on is of a nymph bathing in a spring.... In my mind are all sorts of ideas for stylistic paintings of nymphs and goddesses. As I sit in nature which I have been able to do recently more than at any other period in my life and hear the words "the kingdom of heaven is within you and all around you" (Gospel of Thomas)  as I sit in front of a river or surrounded by the magnificence of the forest  and watch nature interact with its self ...... ive had some profound experiences is all I can say... I have been fascinated with ancient greek religion and especially the idea of spirits living in nature...dryads, naiads etc.... personified via nymphs and feminine spirits...that nature is alive......that it will communicate with you ...

Anyway I know this isn't the place to share my life story but thank you for listening and thank you for all the work everyone is doing here with EA.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on May 11, 2013, 06:24 PM
Hi Kristin,

Thanks for sharing. But I think you misunderstood my post ... I was speaking of the mundane situation regarding Psyche at the moment of the eclipse. Like both Sunyata and you I also have Psyche in Gemini(!) but for me it's in the 2nd. But all you have shared is very interesting anyway, and (along with Sunyata) it's now got me going with Psyche — another asteroid on board, slowly getting to know more of them bit by bit.

Your painting sounds very creative and healing Sunyata...

blessings Upasika


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on May 12, 2013, 10:39 AM
Hi Upasika and Sunyata,

My apologies I thought that was your own signature. Yes another asteroid on board, it sure continues to add more layers of understanding, especially when the spirit of these asteroids can be reflected so vividly in our lives.

***

Thanks for sharing your personal experience Sunyata..so very inspiring..what a sweet evolution and unfolding, it sounds like a true return of your artistic nature..in nature..there is a vast universe in us all..'the kingdom of heaven is within you'...indeed..

Peace,
kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Jul 31, 2015, 11:08 PM
I was reading through the old message boards and saw this about Psyche

Psyche

(Q): In synastry, when the natal asteroid Psyche of two individuals conjuncts each other’s moon, could this indicate some soul affinity like same soul, or some sort of ongoing soul relationship simply suggesting a deeply intuitive and compassionate understanding of one another’s soul composition, perhaps due to travelling many harrowing journeys together in the past to the underworld of life and bake again, like Psyche did because of her love for Eros? That the deep loyalty and commitment born of this abiding love of one Soul to another will always sustain in the end, no matter what? And through the process, through intense desire scenarios played out through one another, supports one another with their evolutionary process?

(A): It does not necessarily mean that they are the same soul, although it could. Yes, to the rest of it. A lot depends on the sign of the psych/moon, and house, aspects to it, but in general, the answer is yes. There is a nice Italian word for it: simpatico.


I was hoping someone could explain this exact situation except for the natal Psyche of two individuals being opposed to each others moons rather than conjunct.

Thanks,
Sunyata