School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 03:48 PM



Title: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 03:48 PM
Hi Everyone,

Lilith - Ceres - Pallas - Vesta - Juno - Sedna - Eris - Amazon (Amazone)
- or any other


The Asteroid Goddesses correlate to the Natural Feminine and her expression of the intuitive "feeling self."  Patriarchal projections and psychological crises have distorted the natural meanings of the Feminine - so let's dig deep and examine the core archetypal principles that revive the actual, natural expression of the Asteroid Goddesses along the lines suggested by Brenda, Rad and Kristin recently.

Quote by Brenda:
.......if you look at the archetypal meanings of some of the Asteroid goddesses coming into prominence, such as Sedna, Eris, Lilith--in a patriarchal world, we get interpretations that are focused on their anger, retribution, etc, so the feminine continues to be distorted. With Ceres, we get examples of that linked to abductions and abuses of women, more related to the famine aspect, than the nurturing and abundance the Goddess holds.

Quote by Rad:
It could be very useful to examine the patriarchal overlay/projections into these natural asteroid Goddesses. And in that examination to recreate the actual, NATURAL, meanings and correlations to those asteroids.

Quote by Kristin:
I recently saw a movie that perfectly reflects the results of what happens when you abuse and destroy a natural Lilith. The movie is called "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" - a Danish movie and the first of a trilogy. The lead woman in this movie is the embodiment of a Distorted Lilith - a movie where some sweet justice is served... by her.  Underneath her understandable wrath and revenge is an echo of her raw feminine beauty, which includes her fearlessness, sexual prowess and power.  I agree with Rad that it would be useful and valuable to explore some of the Goddess asteroids and the NATURAL meanings of these archetypes. Goddess Bless the Goddess.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Sep 06, 2010, 05:39 PM
Hi Linda,

I would like to also add the asteroid Amazon - shown as Amazone in the ephemeris.
I love your fighting spirit - let's Go FOR IT!

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 10:43 PM
Juno

Juno is associated with the signs of Libra and Scorpio.  She is the Goddess of Marriage and represents the capacity for committed relationships utilizing the feminine energies to express creativity, sensitivity, equality, refinement, sharing and faithfulness.

In Greek mythology she was known as Hera, Goddess of the Earth and Moon Phases.  Her husband Jupiter, King of the Heavens, had many affairs, slowly stripping her of her powers;  nevertheless she vowed to stay faithful even though her ideals were never met.  In the on-and-off-again relationship, she became portrayed as a jealous, possessive, manipulative, vindictive and raging shrew. 

Patriarchal distortions:

* the "powerless" woman vowed to an unequal marriage
* the "little woman" behind the big man
* the "battered wife" in domestic violence
* the "neurotic wife" whose needs are thwarted
* the "shrew" of violent temper and speech
* the wife "tied to the kitchen sink"
* marital collapse:  the unfaithful husband and the betrayed wife
* the woman denied expression of her natural self
* the sexless marriage
* the rejected, victimized, and displaced woman

Revival of natural expression for the Asteroid Goddess, Juno:

* equality and balance in relationships
* need for commitment and consistency
* need for joy, passion, intimacy and humour
* mutual sharing, love, honesty and understanding
* women reclaiming their power
* full expression of one's creativity
* the need for space for oneself
* self-sufficient rather than co-dependent relationships


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 06, 2010, 10:53 PM
I love your fighting spirit - let's Go FOR IT!


Hi Kristin!

Thanks for the encouragement.

I hope others will join in.

Love,
Linda


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Bradley J on Sep 06, 2010, 11:19 PM
This is great! 
Thanks for starting this thread Linda

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 07, 2010, 06:11 AM
Hi Linda,

Thank you so much for starting this thread.  I am very interested in learning more about these archetypes and will mostly be reading along as I don't have much to contribute.  However, your post brought up a question for me about faithfulness.  I'm having a hard time understanding this term outside of my own patriarchal conditioning and I'm wondering if you and/or others could describe it as it might express itself in a more natural way.

In a patriarchal way, faithfulness to me seems to imply self-sacrifice and loyalty, but loyalty to patriarchal norms/ideas/etc, not to natural law.  Any other ideas on this (how faithfulness plays out in patriarchal terms)?  Hope this question is ok for this thread.  It felt important for me to understand within the context of the asteroids/goddesses we're exploring.  But if you think it is better to post as a separate topic, let me know and I can do that.

Peace and gratitude,

Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 07, 2010, 09:26 AM
Ellen, et-al,

 Juno, in natural law, correlates to the power of commitment to one other where both in that commitment are themselves defined by Natural Laws: the natural masculine, and the natural feminine. Juno correlates in this way to the power of each to help facilitate the growth and evolution of the other, and thus the ongoing evolution of themselves within the context of the committed relationship. Additionally, Juno correlates, in Natural Law, to the evolution of our sexuality within the context of a committed relationship: to the point where the deepening sexuality between the two  becomes a vehicle of Soul evolution. In the end, it correlates to using the vehicle of sexuality to create a trance state wherein the inner Godhead can be experienced within because of the trance like state that suspends the ego in such a way that a gravitational shift occurs, for certain amount of time, so that the center of gravity is then in the Soul itself.

 This is very different that the patriarchal conditioning of 'faithfulness' correlates mainly to the women being expected to remain faithful even as the patriarchal man gives himself the right to be with others, while maintaining his 'committed' relationship to his partner. The typical dual standards and hypocrisy that emanates from the patriarchy in every way.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 07, 2010, 10:10 AM
Hi All,

 Here is a great link to a site about Goddesses. It lists all the various Goddesses, and the cultures they come from. By clicking on whatever one you wish will bring up a his/herstory of that Goddess.

 http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/goddess-myths.htm


 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 07, 2010, 12:45 PM
Linda, you are so well organized and very clear about this.

Thank you Rad for the site.

I have listened to Demetra George on Kristen's show, and will share some of the notes I took from that. I have also started reading Jean Shinoda Bolen's work on the Goddesess, and as a psychotherapist she gives examples for empowering and healing through the archetypes.

One thing Bolen noted about Juno/Hera, was that her retribution was not directed back to her husband who was deserving due to his philandering and betrayal, but rather directed at the other women he was involved in or taken out on their children. In a male dominated system a woman then must manipulate and do things in a more underhanded, indirect way. I don't have concrete examples at hand, but several instances of a mother killing her children to get back at a husband, have shown up.

Per my notes from D. George, Juno shows what you need day to day to stay in a relationship--this being demonstrated by the sign Juno is in. It shows the need for equal, just, fair partnership.

In the Myth, she gave up her power to her partner, who then, did not live up to his committments. This George says is her pathos lies in that she didn't get what she was promised, while giving up a lot of her own power . It will also show "cycles of leaving and returning, the tit for tat reciprocation that goes on in marriages."
 

Would Juno at the consensus level, be more representative of the patriarchal distortion?  A woman who marries a man, deriving her own power and status in society relative to this man--who does not honor her or their committment--she can't retaliate at him directly, so she takes it out on others.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 07, 2010, 12:53 PM
Am on an old, slow compter, having challenges.

Continuing, about the levels of Juno... (and I am not fully clear, but putting it out there)

Juno at the Individuated level--would be more reflective of the undistorted feminine, in that she is not in subjugation in her marriage, that she retains her power, is able to be in a fair, equitable relationship. She would not stay in a relationship if the committment was violated and not reparable.

Juno at the Spiritual level--taking this from my notes from D. George--representing Tantric union of opposites--using the union for spiritual progress, Demetra says this is especially with Juno/Neptune or Vesta contacts.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 07, 2010, 07:19 PM
Ellen, et-al,

 Juno, in natural law, correlates to the power of commitment to one other where both in that commitment are themselves defined by Natural Laws: the natural masculine, and the natural feminine. Juno correlates in this way to the power of each to help facilitate the growth and evolution of the other, and thus the ongoing evolution of themselves within the context of the committed relationship. Additionally, Juno correlates, in Natural Law, to the evolution of our sexuality within the context of a committed relationship: to the point where the deepening sexuality between the two  becomes a vehicle of Soul evolution. In the end, it correlates to using the vehicle of sexuality to create a trance state wherein the inner Godhead can be experienced within because of the trance like state that suspends the ego in such a way that a gravitational shift occurs, for certain amount of time, so that the center of gravity is then in the Soul itself.

 This is very different that the patriarchal conditioning of 'faithfulness' correlates mainly to the women being expected to remain faithful even as the patriarchal man gives himself the right to be with others, while maintaining his 'committed' relationship to his partner. The typical dual standards and hypocrisy that emanates from the patriarchy in every way.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Thank you so much.  I believe I understand now.  In matriarchal times, when people were living according to natural law, monogamy was not the norm.  HOWEVER, faithfulness (ie, commitment to one another) was one possible way that 2 people could choose, and this was done when 2 people were making a commitment (ie, their own decision based on free choice) to foster each other's growth and in some cases foster each other's relationship to the Divine. Is this correct?  And is this (faithefulnees/commitment within natural law) more likely to be the exception than the norm?

Thank you.

Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 07, 2010, 09:12 PM
In the Myth, she gave up her power to her partner, who then, did not live up to his commitments. This George says is her pathos lies in that she didn't get what she was promised, while giving up a lot of her own power. It will also show "cycles of leaving and returning, the tit for tat reciprocation that goes on in marriages."

Hi Brenda,

I also caught Kristin's radio show with Demetra George (wonderful!) in which it was discussed that some mythologists considered "that Juno willingly gave over her power to Jupiter" and that women want to give their power away to their husbands when they're married.  

The deeper meaning and reason behind giving her power away was out of an expectation and desire for a deeper, more equitable union where true intimacy and depth could be shared (Libra).  (Natural Law)

In Jupiter's tyranny, Juno was forced to wear a chastity belt, while he philandered about, completely ignoring her.  Her rage came from the total subjugation of her power (Scorpio).  In committing and sacrificing herself to him, she was deprived of her sacred sexuality customs, belief system and rituals.  She was unable to express her "natural self," nor able to express her unique individuality within the marriage.   (Distortion)

We can see the early origins of "man-made guilt" : the shame of leaving a marriage, the shame experienced by a displaced woman left to fend for herself in a patriarchal dominated society, being "owned" by a man like a piece of property.  (Distortion)

Juno would not give up - but stayed for the fight (Scorpio).  The patriarchy distorted the ability for women to defend and protect themselves, and this how they came to be known as "the weaker sex."  Why did she keep going back to him?  This is typical of modern domestic violence scenarios.  (Distortion)

Another example of patriarchal distortion is Jupiter's total disregard for not only his wife, but also for the women that he used along the way.  The term "woman hater" comes to mind.  Perhaps the early origins of rape, having power over another.  (Distortion)

In Natural Law, the couple are equal, not superior/inferior to one another.  They would naturally share their resources.  (Natural Law)

Brenda said:
Quote
Would Juno at the consensus level, be more representative of the patriarchal distortion?  A woman who marries a man, deriving her own power and status in society relative to this man--who does not honor her or their commitment--she can't retaliate at him directly, so she takes it out on others.

I would agree that this type of arrangement is evident in the 'consensus' level.  Open marriage could be evident in the 'individuated' level.  A woman taking her rage and misplaced anger out "on others" is definitely a distortion.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 08, 2010, 08:28 AM
Hi Ellen,

"HOWEVER, faithfulness (ie, commitment to one another) was one possible way that 2 people could choose, and this was done when 2 people were making a commitment (ie, their own decision based on free choice) to foster each other's growth and in some cases foster each other's relationship to the Divine. Is this correct?"

***********************************************************************

Yes.

**********************************************************************

 "And is this (faithefulnees/commitment within natural law) more likely to be the exception than the norm?"

***************************************************************************

It was more of the exception than the norm. And one of the key reasons for that is the evolutionary / biological imperative to create ongoing diversification within the gene pool that allowed the immune systems within the species to keep evolving in order to deal with the equally mutating, and evolving, nature of bacterias, viruses, parasites, and fungus.

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 08, 2010, 07:24 PM
***************************************************************************

It was more of the exception than the norm. And one of the key reasons for that is the evolutionary / biological imperative to create ongoing diversification within the gene pool that allowed the immune systems within the species to keep evolving in order to deal with the equally mutating, and evolving, nature of bacterias, viruses, parasites, and fungus.

*********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,
Thank you so much for your answers.  I have just one follow-up, if you have time.  In the above quote, you say that it "was" the norm and the reasons why.  I understand that it is not the norm now (at least the stated norm or the ideal), but wouldn't it still hold true re: the immunological reasons for it still, ideally speaking (ie, in terms of natural law) to STILL be the norm today (ie, non-monogamy).  It is quite striking to me the # of auto-immune dieseases now and just the level that the human species seems to be susceptible to disease generally...

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 08, 2010, 08:11 PM
Sedna  
the return of the Divine Feminine


* Inuit Goddess of the Arctic Deep.
* Her 10,000 year orbit coincides with the rise of the patriarchy and the beginning of agriculture.
* Discovered November 2003.
* She is a new world goddess rather than old world.
* Named after the Inuit goddess who lives at the bottom of the Arctic ocean.
* Planetoid;  red coloured;  3/4 the size of Pluto;  10,500+ year orbit.
* She cycles through the "inner Oort cloud."
* We are ready to incorporate her archetypal meaning into our evolutionary unfoldment.


"The last time Sedna was this close to the Sun, Earth was just coming
out of the last Ice Age.  The next time it comes back, the
world might again be a completely different place."

[Michael Brown, one of Sedna's discoverers]


The Myth - sacrifice, betrayal, abandonment, redemption

Briefly, one version of the myth tells of a beautiful young woman Sedna who marries a seabird disguised as a handsome young man.  She suffers betrayal in the unhappy marriage.  Her father rescues her and they set off in a boat.  A raging storm blows up, and to calm the sea, her father throws her overboard.  Clinging tightly to the side of the boat, her father chops off her fingers one by one.  As her fingers fall into the water they turn into whales, seals and sea-lions.  When all her fingers are gone, she sinks to the bottom of the sea to become the Immortal Sea Goddess.  As the Mother of all Sea Creatures, she presides over all fish hunted for food.  If not respected, she sends starvation to punish the humans.  Shamans must descend into the deep, past the abyss of the dead, to soothe her, in order that the food supply continues.  When she is treated with respect, she releases her bounty.


Sedna’s message

* Affects cycles of growth on the Earth.
* Deals with the cyclical relationship between humanity and Earth's bounty (or withholding of her gifts).
* Teaches respect for the oceans, the biological origin of life on Earth.
* Sends a harsh warning as our oceans become polluted.
* Re-focuses on the rights of women, children, and the environment.
* Brings balance between the sexes, races, and species.
* Deals with vast millenia, and a new level of cosmic understanding.


Since Sedna is so "new," perhaps we can formulate some deeper meanings in line with Natural Law that can be attributed to her?  

Sedna presently sits at 22.35 deg Taurus Rx.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 05:56 AM
Sedna 
the return of the Divine Feminine


* Inuit Goddess of the Arctic Deep.
* Her 10,000 year orbit coincides with the rise of the patriarchy and the beginning of agriculture.
* Discovered November 2003.
* She is a new world goddess rather than old world.
* Named after the Inuit goddess who lives at the bottom of the Arctic ocean.
* Planetoid;  red coloured;  3/4 the size of Pluto;  10,500+ year orbit.
* She cycles through the "inner Oort cloud."
* We are ready to incorporate her archetypal meaning into our evolutionary unfoldment.


"The last time Sedna was this close to the Sun, Earth was just coming
out of the last Ice Age.  The next time it comes back, the
world might again be a completely different place."

[Michael Brown, one of Sedna's discoverers]


The Myth - sacrifice, betrayal, abandonment, redemption

Briefly, one version of the myth tells of a beautiful young woman Sedna who marries a seabird disguised as a handsome young man.  She suffers betrayal in the unhappy marriage.  Her father rescues her and they set off in a boat.  A raging storm blows up, and to calm the sea, her father throws her overboard.  Clinging tightly to the side of the boat, her father chops off her fingers one by one.  As her fingers falls into the water they turn into whales, seals and sea-lions.  When all her fingers are gone, she sinks to the bottom of the sea to become the Immortal Sea Goddess.  As the Mother of all Sea Creatures, she presides over all fish hunted for food.  If not respected, she sends starvation to punish the humans.  Shamans must descend into the deep, past the abyss of the dead, to soothe her, in order that the food supply continues.  When she is treated with respect, she releases her bounty.


Sedna’s message

* Affects cycles of growth on the Earth.
* Deals with the cyclical relationship between humanity and Earth's bounty (or withholding of her gifts).
* Teaches respect for the oceans, the biological origin of life on Earth.
* Sends a harsh warning as our oceans become polluted.
* Re-focuses on the rights of women, children, and the environment.
* Brings balance between the sexes, races, and species.
* Deals with vast millenia, and a new level of cosmic understanding.


Since Sedna is so "new," perhaps we can formulate some deeper meanings in line with Natural Law that can be attributed to her? 
Sedna presently sits at 22.35 deg Rx Taurus.

Hi Linda,All,


One thought I had about Sedna, thinking about Linda's question of possibly finding deeper meanings, was the possibility of the natural ability to see a person for who they are, rather than being caught up with superficial appearances.  Birds are a symbol for spirit, yes?  Sedna, in the myth, was fooled by a disguise of a handsome young man.    All the water imagery in the myth to me suggests emotional attunement as the means to perceiving this deeper reality of another - in other words, tuning into one's feelings/emotional responses to know what is true about another, or at least to begin asking oneself questions that need to be asked. Sedna having been discovered in Taurus suggests to me emotional attunement as a path of/to self-sufficiency.  (I have natal Moon in Taurus, so perhaps I am projecting. But perhaps it allows me to see a possibility, also...)

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 09, 2010, 09:12 AM
Hi Ellen,

Thank you so much for your answers.  I have just one follow-up, if you have time.  In the above quote, you say that it "was" the norm and the reasons why.  I understand that it is not the norm now (at least the stated norm or the ideal), but wouldn't it still hold true re: the immunological reasons for it still, ideally speaking (ie, in terms of natural law) to STILL be the norm today (ie, non-monogamy).  It is quite striking to me the # of auto-immune dieseases now and just the level that the human species seems to be susceptible to disease generally...

************************************************************************

Yes it is still the 'norm' today despite all the patriarchal conditioning to the contrary. Which of course is the actual reason that so many in relationships, or marriages, end up becoming involved with another(s) even as they try to sustain their existing relationship/marriage. It's why roughly 50 percent or more who become married end up divorced. I remember reading a study too by a evolutionary biologist that stated that a women becomes most 'tempted' to be with another man just before and during her peak period of fertility every month. This 'temptation' does indeed reflect the natural law and biological imperative relative to the evolving immune system, and the continuing need for diversification of the gene pool in the human species.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 09, 2010, 04:11 PM
Hi everyone,

Well, I've had an exciting morning!  I wrote to Michael Brown, one of the discoverers of Sedna, requesting the exact time of discovery.

The computer at NASA/Caltech records the discovery of Sedna on 14th November 2003 at 6.32 [UT].  But in Mike's own words:

"Linda -- You're right. Sort of. That's the time the pictures were taken by the robotic computer, but I didn't look at them until the next morning. Not sure of the exact time, though! Mike"

Rad, since Sedna's discovery is so important, do you think the 6.32 [UT] time is good enough to use - or would you actually take the date forward to the morning of 15th November 2003, even though Mike is not sure of the exact time?

Sedna's discovery chart for 14th Nov 2003 is attached, with some amazing patterns:

* 2 Grand Trines forming the rare "Star of David" pattern.

* Water Grand Trine:  Moon/Cancer, Sun/SN/Scorpio, Mars/Pisces.  (Pointing downward reflects the feminine principle.)

* Earth Grand Trine:  Sedna/Taurus, Jupiter/Virgo, Chiron/Capricorn.  (Pointing upward reflects the masculine principle.)

* Sedna in the sign Taurus, Ruler Venus/Sag, the sign correlating to Natural Law.

* Sedna conjunct NN Taurus.

* Sedna elevated in the 10th house.

What can this chart tell us about the use of Earth's resources, past and present?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 04:36 PM
Hi Ellen,

Yes it is still the 'norm' today despite all the patriarchal conditioning to the contrary. Which of course is the actual reason that so many in relationships, or marriages, end up becoming involved with another(s) even as they try to sustain their existing relationship/marriage. It's why roughly 50 percent or more who become married end up divorced. I remember reading a study too by a evolutionary biologist that stated that a women becomes most 'tempted' to be with another man just before and during her peak period of fertility every month. This 'temptation' does indeed reflect the natural law and biological imperative relative to the evolving immune system, and the continuing need for diversification of the gene pool in the human species.

************************************************************************

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad,

Thank you so much.  Just hearing this and knowing this, especially about the women's mentrual cycle and their corresponding "temptation" is amazingly helpful and changing the patriarchal conditioning.  All that jealousy and anger and basic relationship mess all for now reason.  Pretty astounding.  I truly appreciate this teaching.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 04:40 PM
Hi everyone,

Well, I've had an exciting morning!  I wrote to Michael Brown, one of the discoverers of Sedna, requesting the exact time of discovery.

The computer at NASA/Caltech records the discovery of Sedna on 14th November 2003 at 6.32 [UT].  But in Mike's own words:

"Linda -- You're right. Sort of. That's the time the pictures were taken by the robotic computer, but I didn't look at them until the next morning. Not sure of the exact time, though! Mike"

Rad, since Sedna's discovery is so important, do you think the 6.32 [UT] time is good enough to use - or would you actually take the date forward to the morning of 15th November 2003, even though Mike is not sure of the exact time?

Sedna's discovery chart for 14th Nov 2003 is attached, with some amazing patterns:

* 2 Grand Trines forming the rare "Star of David" pattern.

* Water Grand Trine:  Moon/Cancer, Sun/SN/Scorpio, Mars/Pisces.  (Pointing downward reflects the feminine principle.)

* Earth Grand Trine:  Sedna/Taurus, Jupiter/Virgo, Chiron/Capricorn.  (Pointing upward reflects the masculine principle.)

* Sedna in the sign Taurus, Ruler Venus/Sag, the sign correlating to Natural Law.

* Sedna conjunct NN Taurus.

* Sedna elevated in the 10th house.

What can this chart tell us about the use of Earth's resources, past and present?

Linda,

You're AMAZING! Thank you for all of your incredible work and reasearch and for keeping these threads going.  I'm truly astounded and tremendously humbled by your work.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 09, 2010, 04:55 PM
Thank you Ellen!

I love everything you do too!

I love what I see in the Sedna chart - that beautiful Star of David!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 06:17 PM

I love what I see in the Sedna chart - that beautiful Star of David!

Yes, that is beautiful.  That suggests a total synthesis doesn't it?  I know JWG talked about it somewhere (the Star of David) but can't quite recall where or just what he said....

And as I was just looking at it, it looks like there's a mystic rectangle also, along with a kite formation (if you include the mc).  Amazing.

Mystic Rectangle: Saturn(Cancer)/Mars(Pisces)/Chiron (Cap)/Jupiter (Virgo) (water/earth)

Kite has Saturn at apex (cancer) opposed by chiron (cap).

The mystic rectangle makes me think of gender role confusion (I remember JWG talking about Mars in Pisces being confusing for a male, for example).  With Chiron's involvement there's the suggestion of healing.  Jupiter in Virgo's involvement to me suggests the righting of these social mores to allow a freer and more natural flow of gender expression. Anyone want to tackle Saturn in Cancer?

The Kite, in a similar vein, with Cap/Can, makes me think of gender switching.


Would either of these themes - gender roles and gender switching - be appropriate for Sedna?

Am curious as to Rad's response as to whether this would be the appropriate chart to use.
 
Ellen

Oh, PS - and thank you for your kind words!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 09, 2010, 07:10 PM
Thanks Linda for the great research--and posting that chart.

Reading over the myth, I started jotting down notes as to my impressions. Some may be a reach. Am thinking perhaps that Saturn in Cancer opposing Chiron in Capricorn represents Sedna's total abandonment from the men in her life. This in relationship to the fact that she makes a choice of her own (implying that she may have rejected her father's choice). In a patriarchal culture, leaving the tribe on your own, could make you an outcast. Then both the man she chooses and her father abuse, betray, and abandon her--the punishment for her move to individuating from her family and tribe with the "birdman"--a different species even.

Thinking examples would include women as property, possibly arranged marriages, women who are mutilated (as a practice in certain cultures), to the "honor killings" of women in certain Middle East cultures, even the practice of covering a woman in a burka. An odd association came up with the movie "Boxing Helena"--a bit different, in that a man so wants to possess a certain woman that does not want him that he ends up capturing her and dismembering her (it was more black humor than graphically violent).

Her individuation comes about from crisis and trauma--she loses vital parts of herself--she is forced to let go of everything, she must completely die to her old way of being. These vital parts--hands, fingers then become her creations--which provides a tangible, physical sustenance for herself and others. A means to heal from the soul loss of trauma would be in the alchemical transmutation of the "lost parts," which she does.

She herself could do Shamanistic work of recovering soul loss, stripping away the masks.

Ellen you so beautifully wrote about the emotional self-sufficiency, I think, not only emotional, but she becomes self sufficient in a tangible, physical way as well. She no longer has to look outside of herself for anything, she has all the procreative, regenerative, self healing capabilities within.

Perhaps the 2 triangles in the chart reflect the integration of yin and yang, which might also speak of her ultimate integration.

At the Spiritual level, she would no longer need to engage in the outer world, more at home with non human life forms?

Thanks





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Sep 09, 2010, 09:42 PM
Thanks Linda for the great research--and posting that chart.

Reading over the myth, I started jotting down notes as to my impressions. Some may be a reach. Am thinking perhaps that Saturn in Cancer opposing Chiron in Capricorn represents Sedna's total abandonment from the men in her life. This in relationship to the fact that she makes a choice of her own (implying that she may have rejected her father's choice). In a patriarchal culture, leaving the tribe on your own, could make you an outcast. Then both the man she chooses and her father abuse, betray, and abandon her--the punishment for her move to individuating from her family and tribe with the "birdman"--a different species even.

Thinking examples would include women as property, possibly arranged marriages, women who are mutilated (as a practice in certain cultures), to the "honor killings" of women in certain Middle East cultures, even the practice of covering a woman in a burka. An odd association came up with the movie "Boxing Helena"--a bit different, in that a man so wants to possess a certain woman that does not want him that he ends up capturing her and dismembering her (it was more black humor than graphically violent).

Her individuation comes about from crisis and trauma--she loses vital parts of herself--she is forced to let go of everything, she must completely die to her old way of being. These vital parts--hands, fingers then become her creations--which provides a tangible, physical sustenance for herself and others. A means to heal from the soul loss of trauma would be in the alchemical transmutation of the "lost parts," which she does.

She herself could do Shamanistic work of recovering soul loss, stripping away the masks.

Ellen you so beautifully wrote about the emotional self-sufficiency, I think, not only emotional, but she becomes self sufficient in a tangible, physical way as well. She no longer has to look outside of herself for anything, she has all the procreative, regenerative, self healing capabilities within.

Perhaps the 2 triangles in the chart reflect the integration of yin and yang, which might also speak of her ultimate integration.

At the Spiritual level, she would no longer need to engage in the outer world, more at home with non human life forms?

Thanks





Wonderful, Brenda... This all makes total sense to me...

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 10, 2010, 09:27 AM
Hi Linda et-al,

 I certainly share in the insights that Brenda has shared. Linda: I would go with the actual moment of sighting/ observation by the computer. So the chart you posted would be the one I would use. It's discovery is so reminiscent of the sighting/ discovery of Pluto in that Pluto was first seen when it was conjunct it's own N.Node in Cancer in 1933. In this chart we have Sedna discovered when it was conjunct the N.Node in Taurus. At that time it's own South Node was at 24 Aquarius in the 7th which is then conjunct Uranus at 28 Aquarius at the time of discovery. The N.Node of Sedna is then at 25 Leo in the 1st House. Both of these Nodes are then square the transiting S.Node of the Moon in Scorpio in the 4th, which is also conjunct the Scorpio Sun, and, of course these are opposed Sedna itself, and the Lunar N.Node in Taurus in the 10th.  Both the Sun and the S.Node of the Moon in this chart then refers back to the ruler of Pluto in Sagittarius in the 5th, which is conjunct natal Venus, and both are conjunct the S.Node of Uranus. All three of these are then inconjunct the Lunar N.Node and Sedna itself in the 10th. Additionally, the natal Neptune in this chart is conjunct it's own S.Node, both of course in Aquarius in this chart's 6th House. When all of this is then fleshed in by Jupiter in Virgo, the ruler of the Pluto,Venus, and S.Node in Aquarius, in the 2nd and opposed by Mars in Pisces in the 8th, which then refers back to the ruler of Neptune, conjunct it's own S.Node in the 6th House, which then contains the Chiron in Capricorn which is opposed the Saturn in Cancer in the 12th, IT CERTAINLY SYMBOLIZES THE ENTIRE MYTH OF SEDNA ITSELF.

Within the context of the myth it all about how the natural feminine has been totally violated and destroyed by the perversion of Natural Law at the hands of men, the patriarchy. And, of course, the entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not. The entire message of this natal Sedna chart is to utterly rebel against all that is unnatural. To throw it off, to oppose it. This entire chart is about how women has been used as men's scapegoats, of how they have been defined through the patriarchal distorted centuries as something dark, evil, the 'temptation' to man's spiritual downfall.

With Sedna itself in Taurus, conjunct the lunar N.Node in the 10th, and these then being ruled by the Venus, Pluto, S.Node of Uranus conjunctions in the 5th, this is all about women relearning how to be utterly self sustaining within themselves, of renewing, rediscovering, their natural inner relationships as defined by the principle and natural law of femininity, the natural feminine archetype, and fully actualizing themselves in this way. It is about rediscovering the power of their natural sexuality, and of recreating reality in general as defined by Natural Laws and principles. This would include educating men as to what natural masculinity is, and is not. Thus, or rediscovering and actualizing the natural roles between natural women, and natural men.
 
On a planetary level it is about the survival of the species itself: Sedna in Taurus conjunct the lunar N.Node in Taurus in the 10th, and these being square Sedna's own S and N Nodes in Aquarius and Leo. Sedna and the lunar Node are also inconjunct Pluto, Venus, and the S.Node of Uranus in the 5th, and these are ruled, again by Jupiter in Virgo in the 2nd which is opposed Mars in Pisces in the 8th, ruled by that Neptune in Aquarius in the 6th, conjunct it's own S.Node. In essence, if the patriarchal distortion to reality continues, the violations to natural laws as a result, then this would suggest and symbolize, to me, the extinction of the human species down the line. We can see in this chart that the core violation to Natural Laws that would equal that possibility being the violation of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion, versus the patriarchal perversion which became self interest and exclusion.

There is so much more in this chart, but let's here from others about their own thoughts. And, by the way, found a neat website about Sedna. It is at:

 http://www.lunarplanner.com/asteroids-dwarfplanets/Sedna.html

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 11, 2010, 08:47 AM
Hi Rad, Linda, Ellen, et al,

Rad that is a great website, thanks for finding and sharing. Thank you for your wisdom, guidance and teachings. Coming from a patriarchal education system, I had no educational frame of reference of any of this. So the teachings of EA, especially your clarification of things above, are so helpful, so necessary, so healing. Most people have no frame of reference of role models according to natural law, and continue to repeat such distortions. Living in America right now, is like living in the twighlight zone.

The dialogue and discussions here, whether I interject or not, have been so helpful to me personally, getting to challenging dogma, and even asking questions within that I would not have thought to ask or question.

Reading what you wrote Rad above, and then viewing the crazy women of the American Tea Party--who embody and perpetuate the patriarchal distortion of the feminine, and who are given so much media time, it is shocking and so depressing. There are other patriarchal cultures in the Middle East and South America where women have ascended to true power positions in ways that are more honest and  integrated.

Anyway, thank you Linda, Ellen, et all for your insights, opening the door to this dialogue, teachings--what you write and express, stimulates much.

God Bless you all, and JWG


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Sep 11, 2010, 02:38 PM
HI all,

and Brenda..I could not agree with you more.

***

This is an incredible thread ..thanks to everyone who is doing their part to educate others on the natural feminine. It is time she is healed and returned to her natural state, one Goddess at a time.

The INJUSTICE linked with the feminine and extreme imbalance for lifetimes is shown with Pluto/Venus BALSALMIC in Sagittarius,lifetimes long, of her essence being destroyed and this now being a time of culmination and healing. Pluto also rules the South node in Scorpio which restates this theme and the Sun in Scorpio on the South node. The woman destroyed but back for redemption.

The KITE pattern in the Sedna discovery chart is so powerful and revealing in its message to RISE above where we have been, to fly high above the ashes, to be free of the conditioning patterns and the wounds that have injured so many.This destruction reflected in the tail of the kite, Chiron in Cap in the 6th.

The highest point in the kite, the tip of the kite shows Moon conjunct Saturn in CANCER in the 12th house. They are joined by the asteroid Ceres which reflects RECOVERING SOMETHING LOST FROM THE PAST.. ie recovering the natural feminine. It is about setting the record straight with the N Node of Jupiter also conjunct that Moon/Saturn in the 12th, cleaning up and purifying the corruption and destruction. New rules being written, RULES reflecting NATURAL LAW, rules of of the matriarchy,Saturn in Cancer. This cardinal signature also restated with Moon and Saturn along with the fact they are in Cancer suggests we have to go back and remember our matriarchal roots where everything was in a state of balance in order to then move forward, to restore the natural balance between genders-reflected in the Cancer/Capricorn axis.

The asteroid Amazon, naturally ruled by Mars and Pluto, conjuncts Saturn and the Moon turbo charging the tip of the kite. She is known to be the greatest female warrior. She takes the lead and drives this movement forward. She says "FOLLOW ME" .
The Amazon has been known to single handedly destroy armies of men in order to defend her people and their rights. In this case she represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Her energy is reflected in Rad's quote below.

Rad said

Quote
the entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not.


 "to rebel as fiercely as necessary"..sign me up..

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 15, 2010, 02:43 AM
Ceres
the Great Mother, ancient Roman goddess of agriculture and fertility


* Discovered on 1 January 1801 by astronomer Giuseppe Piazzi, Sicily, Italy.
* Largest of the asteroids - now classed a "dwarf planet."
* Nestled between Mars and Jupiter.
* Circles the Sun every 4.6 years.
* Also known as Greek goddess Demeter and Egyptian goddess Isis.
* Presides over the fertility of the Earth and procreation.
* Represents the principle of unconditional love.
* Nourishing, nurturing, providing, productive, sharing, sustaining.
* Associated with Cancer, Virgo and Taurus.


Myth

Demeter's dearly loved daughter Persephone gets abducted by the lord of the underworld.  In her grief, she neglects the earth, all the crops die, and famine spreads over the world.  When mother and daughter are rejoined, plants grow again. 


Painful experiences and distortions

* Fragmented family structures
* Separation of children from parents
* Mother complexes
* Mother's grief and fears about children
* Teenage drug abuse and crime
* Teenage pregnancies
* Child molestation
* Plight of elderly parents
* Eating disorders
* Compulsive dieting
* Attachment, dependency
* Loss, separation, grief
* Contamination of Earth's soil, water and atmosphere
* Destruction of forests
* Starvation and famine


Ceres' cure

* Need to nurture and be nurtured
* Unconditional love
* Self-worth and self-esteem
* Protection and guidance of children
* Parental obligations
* Preservation of Earth's natural resources
* Work and productivity
* Sharing of food and resources


Ceres' connection to Cancer involves women's issues, family bonds, and emotional states.  Ceres as a possible ruler of Virgo and Taurus, is an archetype of environment activism and social awareness of our responsibility to sustain the Earth's resources, the need for work, productivity, and the sharing of food and resources generously.  We can clearly see how the patriarchal distortions have fragmented the natural family structures, and have lead to the abuse, greed and grasping of the Earth's resources.  Within Natural Law family structures are based on sharing of food and nourishment, and protection of children.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 15, 2010, 03:21 AM
Ceres is presently at 24 deg Sagittarius, and will enter Capricorn on 8th October 2010.

Ceres conjuncts Pluto in Capricorn on 19th October 2010.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 15, 2010, 10:39 AM
Hi Linda et-al,

 Thought it may be useful to post the archetype/ story of the Ceres/Demeter myth as found on that website about the goddess myths that I posted earlier. So here it is. God Bless,      Rad

***************************************************************************                                         




                                        Demeter, Greek Goddess of the Bountiful Harvest
                                                 Goddess of the Bountiful Harvest
                                                       and the Nurturing Spirit


In Greek mythology the goddess Demeter was the most generous of the great Olympian goddesses.  The Greek goddess Demeter was beloved for her service to mankind in giving them the gift of the harvest, the reward for cultivation of the soil.

Also known as the Roman goddess Ceres, Demeter was the goddess of the harvest and was credited with teaching humans how to grow, preserve, and prepare grain. Demeter  was thought to be responsible for the fertility of the land.

She was the only one of the Greek goddesses who was involved on a day-to-day basis in the lives of the common folk.  While others occasionally "dabbled" in human affairs when it suited their personal interests, or came to the aid of "special" mortals they favored, the goddess Demeter was truly the nurturer of mankind.

Demeter also was the only one of the Greek goddesses who could truly empathize with the human experience of suffering and grief, having experienced it fully herself.

The goddess Demeter is best known for her fierce defense of her daughter, Persephone, who was also known as the child, Kore (or Cora).  Persephone's father was Zeus, the mighty ruler of the Olympians. The goddess Demeter had been one of his early consorts, long before his marriage to Hera.

 Persephone was an obedient, cheerful girl who had a happy childhood, playing with her cousins, Artemis and Athena.  Reaching adolescence, she was carefree and spirited, often dancing playfully and picking wildflowers in the meadow near her home. 

Persephone's youthful beauty drew the attention of Hades, the god of the underworld, and he could not help falling in love with her.  One day as Persephone reached over to pick a flower, the earth opened and the arm of Hades reached up from the underworld.

And so Hades abducted her, dragging her back to his kingdom.

Hearing Persephone's screams, the goddess Demeter rushes to the meadow, but cannot find Persephone.  Carrying a torch, Demeter traveled the world day and night, never eating or resting, searching futilely for her daughter.

Poseidon, god of the sea, noticed the goddess Demeter as she traveled and pursued her with amorous intent.  Then Demeter tried to fool him by changing herself into a mare and hiding herself in the middle of a herd of horses, but he was not fooled.  Poseidon saw through Demeter's disguise, turned himself into a stallion, and took her at his will.

When Demeter continued her journey in search of her daughter, she met an old and poor man who was gathering firewood who invited her to return to his home to eat supper with his family and to rest on her journey. When she told him that she was searching for her daughter, he wished her success and told her that he understood her suffering since his son lay dying at home. Demeter, goddess of compasion,   changed her mind and went with the kindly man, stopping only once to gather some poppies by the path.  Entering his humble home, Demeter went straight away to the boy's bedside and kissed the boy lovingly on the cheek.  Immediately the pallor left his face and his breathing eased, as Demeter's love had restored the son to full health.

Although it was the custom of the Greek goddesses and gods to become very vindictive toward anyone who failed to honor them in a dignified fashion, Demeter was such a kind goddess that she seldom utilized this privilege.  One of the few times was when she stopped on her travels to quench her thirst by drinking from a spring and heard a man named Ascaelabus laughing at the sound of her gulping the fresh water. Embarrassed, and angry at the man for being so rude, Demeter turned him into a lizard.

 Resuming her search, she soon encountered Hecate, goddess of the crossroads, who advised her to speak with Helio, goddess of the sun  . . . reasoning that, since she had been riding her chariot (the sun) through the sky that day, she had surely seen what had happened to Persephone. Helio told the goddess Demeter what she had seen and that Persephone was now ensconced as Hades' wife and Queen of the Underworld.  She also gave her the shocking news that Zeus himself had sanctioned the marriage, giving Hades permission to abduct Persephone.
 
Understandably, the goddess Demeter felt betrayed.   Renouncing her divine duties that included bringing fertility to the land, Demeter left Mount Olympus swearing that the earth would remain barren until her daughter was returned to her.  She took refuge in the city of Eleusis. Disguised as an old woman, the goddess Demeter was met the city rulers two young daughters at the well, and they, liking her immensely, invited her to return to their home to meet their mother.  There she met their mother who was cuddling her infant son.  This must have stirred Demeter's longing for her abducted daughter horribly. Demeter became profoundly depressed, almost catatonic, eyes gazing off into the distance and unwilling or unable to even speak.

 Everyone tried to all that they knew to cheer their guest; but it was to no avail. Eventually one of the household servants, a middle-aged maid named Baubo, came and sat in front of Demeter and started talking, mostly making humorous comments (most likely of the "male-bashing" sort), some of them quite risque. Encouraged when she saw the beginnings of a smile forming on Demeter's grief stricken face, Baubo hiked up her skirt and "mooned" the goddess. Demeter responded with a deep belly laugh that brought her out of the deep depression.  Her good nature now restored, Demeter was soon hired to work as a nursemaid to the infant son of the city's ruler.

 
Caring for him lovingly, feeding him on the nectar and ambrosia of the gods, Demeter grew very attached to the young Demophoon and decided to make him immortal.  But, just as Demeter was holding his feet over the fire (the ritual which would transform him into an Olympian god, Demophoon's mother entered the room.

Mistakenly believing that Demeter was about to burn her son, she began to scream.   The goddess Demeter then dropped her disguise, revealing the beautiful goddess that she truly was, and berated the mother for her stupidity in stopping the ritual that would have given her son immortality.

In addition, Demeter demanded that a temple be built in her honor.  This was done, and the goddess Demeter remained there, sitting alone in the darkness, once again depressed and grieving for her lost daughter.

All this time, with the goddess Demeter refusing to function, the land grew barren and the harvests ceased . . . the earth saw a winter that did not end.  Zeus finally opens his eyes to what was happening and sent messengers to apologize and coax the goddess Demeter to return.

Demeter, however, remained adamant that she would not return until Persephone was rescued.  Finally, Zeus gave in and sent Hermes to command Hades to release Persephone.

Persephone, upon hearing the news, rejoiced for she had missed her mother sorely.  As she was leaving, Hades offered her a pomegranate to eat. Persephone had refused all food while she had been in the underworld, and was surely hungry.

Although she undoubtedly knew that those who ate anything in the underworld were not allowed to return to the earth, Persephone accepted Hades' gift, eating only the seeds.  Hermes borrowed Hades chariot and stallions and flew Persephone home to her mother as Zeus had ordered.

Demeter was not pleased that Persephone had eaten the pomegranate seeds and would have to return to the underworld for four months during each year, but was otherwise overjoyed to be reunited with her daughter.

Happily, Demeter resumed her divine duties and restored the fertility of the earth.  Each year the goddess Demeter longs for her absent daughter and withdraws her favors from the earth for a period we know as winter, but Persephone returns each spring to end her desolation.

Once Persephone was safely returned, albeit for only a third of a year, the Greek goddess Demeter decided to reside in her temple in Eleusis where she had enjoyed the welcome and support of her friends during her long search for Persephone.

There she developed the Eleusian mysteries, a series of profound religious ceremonies that taught her initiates how to live joyfully and how to die without fear.

****************************************************************************

The story of Greek goddess Demeter illustrates the tremendous capacity of a woman to love and nurture, within her own family and the world at large. 

It also reminds us to stand firm for what is good and right, even in the face of adversity, when powerful forces are aligned against us.

The goddess Demeter's message also reminds us of the seasons of a woman's life, that even though there are times of great sorrow there is also great joy to be found.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 16, 2010, 08:50 PM
Hello everyone.

I hope its ok if I backtrack to Juno as I would like to explore a practical interpretation of it. This chart is a good example because:
1. He is a male, and I find that most of the material written on Juno is for some reason only directed towards women.
2. It's on his sn in Sag, which is squaring the 3rd house Virgo stellium and chiron in Pisces in the 9th. This soul is first stage spiritual.

Quote from Rad:
Quote
Juno, in natural law, correlates to the power of commitment to one other where both in that commitment are themselves defined by Natural Laws: the natural masculine, and the natural feminine. Juno correlates in this way to the power of each to help facilitate the growth and evolution of the other, and thus the ongoing evolution of themselves within the context of the committed relationship. Additionally, Juno correlates, in Natural Law, to the evolution of our sexuality within the context of a committed relationship: to the point where the deepening sexuality between the two  becomes a vehicle of Soul evolution. In the end, it correlates to using the vehicle of sexuality to create a trance state wherein the inner Godhead can be experienced within because of the trance like state that suspends the ego in such a way that a gravitational shift occurs, for certain amount of time, so that the center of gravity is then in the Soul itself.

This is very different that the patriarchal conditioning of 'faithfulness' correlates mainly to the women being expected to remain faithful even as the patriarchal man gives himself the right to be with others, while maintaining his 'committed' relationship to his partner. The typical dual standards and hypocrisy that emanates from the patriarchy in every way. 

I just tried interpreting it, but got lost in my left brain! So I'm going to keep the space open for someone else to share their understanding.

(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/Maleclientjunoconjsn.jpg)

Thank you,
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 17, 2010, 03:38 PM
Hi Ari,

What I see reflected in this chart is a soul who has internalized all kinds of ideas and messages of a patriarchal nature which has totally conditioned the soul’s consciousness over time, and specifically its beliefs about ‘who it is’...leading to a deep underlying sense of inferiority and artificial guilt simply for the fact of the soul’s intrinsic nature.  

This of course is a natural soul..in this life what you could call a ‘natural man’.  A natural man is vastly different than a traditional patriarchal man.  Yet the past life imprint, as a function of internalizing these messages about who he is, and the guilt/inner sense of inferiority, has led to compensation patterns where in the past the soul has chosen to commit itself to partners who reflect the qualities and circumstances of elite social status...the compensatory intention being to associate itself with the symbols that were highly valued by society..the soul trying to make itself an extension of those symbols so that it too would be valued.  

The reason for wanting to be valued in this way is a reaction to internalized traumas that have been linked with society projecting extreme perversions and exclusionary treatment onto the soul, as a consequence of the soul not reflecting the prevailing customs/norms/values that were expected to define every aspect of one’s lifestyle.  And so by committing to partners who were established in an elitist culture and living a lifestyle reflective of self-important elitist attitudes/philosophies/beliefs: i.e. “i am more important than the bum on the street..i am more important that the bum who is washing my backside and will later be fetching my dinner..or..‘what a beautiful animal!--now kill it so I can wear it for a coat’..(these statements reflecting the inner orientation of the partner..not the soul itself) etc etc, the soul only intensified the pressure to try and be something its not, something it never has been, and something it never will be, by attracting the exact kind of messages that has led to the formation of this inner dynamic: artificial guilt/inferiority..such messages being a function of distorted patriarchal judgment.  

And so the soul’s subconscious orientation to intimate relationship partners has been conditioned by memories of these kinds of dynamics and situations of undermining enmeshment with partners who would constantly remind the soul of all the ways the soul just wasn’t cutting it..how ‘strange and unacceptable’ the soul 'is'..how 'stupid' the soul's visions were relative to the ideals and purposes it felt called to devote itself to in life..

In the current life juno is reflecting the need for the soul to FIRST make a primary commitment to the godhead..juno in sag ruled by jupiter rx in taurus/11th, opposing neptune/venus in scorpio in the 5th..relative to first stage spiritual.  In so doing, the soul progressively deconditions from those artificial messages, beliefs, and behavioral reflexes that have built up and crystalized over lifetimes, and a natural self reliance based on the soul's specific individually becomes established.  Additionally, a primary commitment to the godhead also entails committing to a relevant form of work..karma yoga..a work that heals, honors, serves, and promotes an inner communion with Nature in some way, and simultaneously allows the soul to conduct himself freely through an inner alignment with natural laws.   Through this commitment to deepening conscious inner communion with the godhead, and committing to a work that reflects how that godhead intends to work through the soul, what would then be set in motion is a progressive deconditioning from internalized judgments and the resulting guilt/garbage/undermining behaviors that have become built up in the soul..that deconditioning then changing the nature of the soul's inner vibration..  As the change in the soul’s inner vibration occurs, this allows the soul to naturally ATTRACT..taurus/11th house..a partner of like mind..a natural female..who naturally shares a commitment to the natural god and the natural laws it has created..and through a committed partnership, making these things a mutual WAY OF LIFE.  

The natural partner would also possess a natural humility and natural orientation to service (juno in 6th), which the two would carry out together in the context of their relationship...or at least both would be involved in forms of work that are naturally harmonious and reinforcing in general focus.  This then promotes conversations of a deep and contemplative nature...philosophies they share..discussions about the meaning of life and the larger forces that have created it, etc. (juno/sag)  These conversations would be healing and a powerful affirmation of the mutual bond..it would illuminate the core affinity existing between the two, and deepen mutual appreciation of one another.  They would provide each other with messages--spoken as pure, sincere truth..not as some kind of agenda--that would fundamentally validate the truth of who the other partner is, which would create an immensely positive influence in the general constitution within each partner (5th house).

In addition, we have the symbols for remembering--jupiter rx--the proper use of sexual energy as a means of evolving consciousness..which would be engaged as a devotional ritual that brings both partners into direct union with the godhead, and allows them to directly experience the divinity within each other through the conscious sexual union...jupiter rx opposing venus/neptune in scorpio..venus ruling moon in libra in the 8th house..

That’s what I’m seeing anyway..

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 18, 2010, 09:30 AM
Hi, I would like to go back for some clarification on Ceres. Thank you Linda and Rad for posting all the information.

Is there an EA position on Ceres being recently recognized, while Pluto was "demoted," what does this indicate for now, the future? I assumed this would represent a movement to the return of the undistorted female principle, or the ascension of the feminine. Perhaps it is, and thus would this be a seeding phase, and we get a backlash (Cardinal) before we can move ahead?

It will be interesting to see what unfolds with the Ceres/Pluto conjunction coming up. Over the past year or so, Ceres/Pluto has shown in some deaths/abductions--ie the Natalie Holloway case, she had a natal conjunction of Ceres/Pluto in Scorpio with Transiting Ceres conjuncting her natal Pluto/Venus for her abduction/death. When Brittany Murphy, the young actress, died, transiting Ceres conjuncted her natal Ceres while squaring Saturn.

Jean Shinoda Bolen also speaks of another distortion of Ceres as the overbearing or overcontrolling mother.

Going back to my original question about the recognition of Ceres and what that means--is the backlash primarily in the US? It seems several other patriarchal countries have been able to elect strong women leaders, and the US has Tea Party women. Esquire magazine had a recent article that said American men born from 1960-1990 were more sexist than their fathers--at a time when women are getting better education and better jobs/more pay than men. Is there something in the US chart that makes this an inherent struggle, or is this a transit situation?

The link for the Esquire article:

http://www.care2com/causes/womens-rights/blog/are-young-men-more-sexist-than-their-fathers/

Thankyou


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 18, 2010, 09:37 AM
I moved away from the original topic when I asked about the US chart, but I just looked back at it, so will attempt to answer my own question--does the Pluto in Capricorn, with Saturn in Libra, and Venus in Cancer then show the inherent patriarchal nature of the US?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Sep 18, 2010, 11:36 AM
Hi Ari,

What I see reflected in this chart is a soul who has internalized all kinds of ideas and messages of a patriarchal nature which has totally conditioned the soul’s consciousness over time, and specifically its beliefs about ‘who it is’...leading to a deep underlying sense of inferiority and artificial guilt simply for the fact of the soul’s intrinsic nature.  

Stacie

Wow that was amazing to read Stacie.  I'm so glad Ari posted the questions and to learn from your response.

Thank you,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 18, 2010, 01:25 PM
Hi Brenda,

 In the natal USA chart the natal Ceres in in THE TENTH HOUSE, AND IN PISCES. It is square the natal Uranus in Gemini in the 1st. It is ruled by natal Neptune in Virgo in the 5th, which is square natal Mars in Gemini also in the 1st. The Neptune itself is ruled by Mercury retrograde in Cancer in the 3rd, and this is opposed by natal Pluto in Cap in the 9th. Mercury is ruled by the Moon in Aquarius in the 10th, and that is conjunct the USA natal Lucifer.

 How long did it take for women in the USA to even have a right to vote ? On the other hand the 'feminist' movement largely manifested out of the USA in the late 60's and spread to many parts of the world. At that time transiting Neptune, the ruler of natal Ceres in the USA chart, was in Scorpio and forming a trine to this natal Ceres. It was also forming a trine to the natal Cancer planets in the USA 2nd House. At the same time transiting Uranus was in Libra, and came across the USA's Saturn in the 5th, and forming trines to Mars and Uranus in Gemini, and trines to the natal Moon with Lucifer in the 10th.

 At that time both men and women who all had Pluto in Leo rebelled against the patriarchal conditioning in the USA. That was the time of 'free love', Uranus transiting in Libra. That transit also squared the natal Cancer planets, and inconjuncted natal Ceres. Of course the shock to the Pluto in Cancer generation, their parents, was total. The impact of that time in the USA lasted a long, long time, and, again, reached into many lands. It was a time of women trying to reclaim that which has been lost: the natural feminine.

God Bless, Rad

And, by the way, it means nothing that Pluto has been 'demoted' to something less than a planet. This is just people deciding what is what which means nothing other than what they say it means. The fact is Pluto has an orbit around our Sun, it has an atmosphere, and it has a Moon.

 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 18, 2010, 04:36 PM
Ceres...........the return of the undistorted female principle, or the ascension of the feminine.


Hi Brenda,

I just noticed your reference to the word, "ASCENSION" of the feminine.  


Hi Rad,

Is "Ascension" referred to by so much New Age Spirituality simply, in truth, the return of the Feminine, the matriarchal, within the Age of Aquarius?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 19, 2010, 10:52 AM
Hi Rad,

Thank you very much for your explanation. I don't feel Pluto is any "less" at all, but the word "demoted" has been bandied about close to the same time Ceres was recognized.

Does the US Ceres thus represent why the world looks to the US for its "abundance" and ability to help and heal other countries in need, and why the US looks to itself to also offer help when needed? I may be wrong, but at one time wasn't the US called the "breadbasket of the world"--a Ceres/grains analogy?

The Tea Party women (Moon-Aquarius/Lucifer?) are such a distortion of all the efforts of women from the suffragettes to the "60's. The latter group, who actively fought for their rights, seems to represent the Amazon archetype Kristin mentioned. The Tea Party women are often very pretty, while saying such reactionary, hateful, fear based messages--looking at them, I am reminded of JWG saying something to the effect of Evil looking like G-d (in Sedona) about this current time, sadly too prophetic.

Hi Linda,

I probably used the word" ascension" a bit loosely, I was thinking of cycles, a picture of cycles looks like waves, some waves go down (descend), some waves go up (ascend)--so more accurately, I was thinking of ascendancy in wave form--perhaps I should have used the word emerge, or a return.

I don't know all the New Age thinking, but from what I have read, some people felt that there would be an actual ascendancy of their souls/beings to another dimension--that their DNA was being transformed, and those that were ready would ascend, the others left behind (which, when you think of it, is like a New Age distortion of the "Rapture.") Others, I do believe are waiting for a return of the matriarchy.

Sincere thanks.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 19, 2010, 12:30 PM
(Back to Juno...)

Stacy, that was really helpful. Thank you for sharing your understanding. I want to clarify my understanding:

The soul has deeply internalized all kinds of ideas based on religious conditioning and persecution (sag in 6th relative to squares, as well as jupiter rx in taurus in 11th) and thus the archetype of sacred commitment to another to evolve consiousness through sexuality here has manifested by way of having learned unnatural sexual practices that he did not connect to. Thus the reality of the partnership you described by which he has committed with souls of higher elite as a form of compensation for not living in his own truth- in particular experiencing the actual sacredness of sexuality with a committed partner who is equally devoted to spiritual growth.

In some cases the relationships he engaged in would have been his own syblings/family members- like in Egypt. As that Jupiter opposes Neptune Venus in Scorpio, and is ruled by Venus in Scorpio- which is ruled by Pluto in the 3rd.

And so in this life, committing to a partner with whom they can both share a deep commitment to the truth, and relearn true intimacy with God through sexual union. However a part of this process will require a de-conditioning by way of working through pl trauma that manifests as dissociation when it comes to sexuality. It is interesting to note that this soul is in a very loving and committed relationship with another woman. They both love each other very much, however there is no sexual connection. I feel this explains why.

Please let me know if anything that I wrote is a misunderstanding of this archetype.
Love,
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 23, 2010, 05:11 AM
Hi Ari,

Just wanted to check in and let you know that I'll be back early this afternoon to post the reply to this.  

Talk to ya soon.
Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Sep 23, 2010, 04:44 PM
This of course is a natural soul..in this life what you could call a ‘natural man’.

.......... in the past the soul has chosen to commit itself to partners who reflect the qualities and circumstances of elite social status...the compensatory intention being to associate itself with the symbols that were highly valued by society..the soul trying to make itself an extension of those symbols so that it too would be valued.  


Hi Stacie,

Could you please confirm where the above astrological correlations are found in the chart.

I expect the above quotes refer specifically to Juno 24 deg Cap in the 6th house (conj Galactic Centre - 'daemon soul')?

And how the need to be "valued by an elitist society" correlating to Cap/7th is a Libran distortion?

Any comments on Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Lilith all near the DC?

Thanks Stacie!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 23, 2010, 05:56 PM

Hi Ari,

Quote
The soul has deeply internalized all kinds of ideas based on religious conditioning and persecution (sag in 6th relative to squares, as well as jupiter rx in taurus in 11th) ...

Just remember to include Saturn in this.. ‘Religion’ and all the conditioning therein connects to the cap/10th/saturn archetype.  In this chart we're finding saturn in the 9th..in aquarius.  Oh and what's this--it is conjunct the SN of juno in the 8th house.  Saturn is also trine the NN in the 12th, sextile mercury and juno in the 6th..saturn being ruler of mercury..mercury being ruler of the uranus/mars/pluto in the 3rd.  Saturn is also sextile lucifer in aries in the 10th.

Quote
...and thus the archetype of sacred commitment to another to evolve consiousness through sexuality here has manifested by way of having learned unnatural sexual practices that he did not connect to. Thus the reality of the partnership you described by which he has committed with souls of higher elite as a form of compensation for not living in his own truth- in particular experiencing the actual sacredness of sexuality with a committed partner who is equally devoted to spiritual growth…


The real issue isn’t simply that he has learned unnatural sexual practices that he hasn’t connected to, but is more primarily a matter of having experienced a variety of very INTENSE sexual traumas which has led to a detachment...or disassociation as you've keenly pointed out..from his inner sexual nature. 

If he were to embrace sacred sexuality it would allow him to reconnect to (and experience directly within himself and the right partner) the deeper natural laws that exist within conscious use of sexual energy.  This soul has experienced so much trauma in this area...  And you are quite correct about the connection to sexualized relationships with siblings…EXCELLENT, excellent point Ari.  There are deep unresolved traumas associated with exactly this issue.  There's also unresolved traumas linked with extreme experiences like being gang-raped in lives as a female.  These unresolved traumas have not only become  crystalized within the mental, emotional/psychological bodies, but in the physical body as well, at the cellular level..taurus/11th: cellular memory.  Sacred sexuality as a devotional practice, WITH A PARTNER WHO IS EQUALLY ORIENTED IN THIS DEVOTIONAL WAY, would be a direct way of counteracting the traumatic memories that are being held in the body/cellular structure....as well as the emotional, psych, spiritual, mental structures as well..

As I was contemplating this chart last night, a scenario flew into my brain that really seems to connect to the trauma signature in this chart.  This scenario connects to a very recent life, either the immediate prior lifetime, or the one directly before.  In this life the soul was a male, and he shared a profound connection with his sister.  Following numerous lifetimes of social exclusion, persecution, projection, etc. the soul was in an inner condition of feeling utterly alienated from and within the world.  This sister was a natural soul just like himself, and thus she could see his true nature, appreciate it, and related with him on that level.  This relationship was the essence of the juno symbol that I described earlier.  She was the one soul in his life that he experienced a like-mindedness with, and hence they were very, very close. 

One factor that intensified this closeness was the factor of their home environment being utterly abusive, violent, defeating, and traumatic.   This was directly linked to the father, who had a chronic behavior of taking out his inner rage, frustration, and restlessness on this soul and the sister.  The sister was subjected to frequent, agressive sexual abuse by that father.   Any efforts on her part to resist were met with outright physical violence..so she learned to comply.   

The soul (i.e. this chart) was keenly aware of the torment this abuse created in his sister, but didn't know how he could stop it because the father had them living in fear.  He was so volatile that any hint of objection would be answered with intimidation and beatings.  In addition to abuse by physical violence, this soul received intense, ongoing abuse of humiliation--it was as if the father’s mission in life was to break the soul down through any and every possible message and opportunity to inflame self-doubt and make this soul experience essential powerlessness and inferiority.  As a coping mechanism to the nightmarish presence that the father was in both of their lives, the two siblings began a progressively deepening sexual relationship.  This brought comfort to both of them.  It helped them deal with the intense trauma of the shared reality within the home.  Furthermore, these souls were indeed of like-mind and very close emotionally.  She reflected exactly the kind of partner he needed, and he reflected the same for her.  The connection of Egypt is key right here, because this served as a subconscious reference in initiation point of a sexualized relationship: i.e. it was a cultural norm in the Egyptian lifetimes (or lifetime..no clue how many) for family members to be sexual with one another.  And therefore, in the context of this recent lifetime the ONLY factor that made sexual contact between these souls feel wrong was the fact that it was now a major cultural taboo.  From the inner perspective of each of them, this relationship/content was natural..and equally/mutually consensual.  Following through from lifetimes of various sexual traumas, and the current life sexual trauma of the sister,  the sexual merging that occurred between these two actually put them in touch with, and allowed them experience, more of the true essence and power of sexual energy than socially 'appropriate' relationships they've had in their preceeding lives.  It was healing for both of them.  Well...at some point this violent asshole father caught them in the act and utterly blew his cap in the discovery.  He immediately went after the sister and started to relentlessly beat her.  The soul found himself unable to stop this and was forced to watch every bloody traumatizing second of it.  The beating killed her.  And the soul watched this entire thing happen right in front of face.  When the realization hit that she was in fact dead, the soul found himself overwhelmed with one thought:  ’It’s my fault.’   He saw himself as the sole reason for his sister being beaten to death…and within this are two critical interpretations:  1) because he had been sexual with her, she died.  2) because he acted on his own desires, she died.   This trauma created unspeakable inner grief and guilt in the soul and has been deeply internalized.  These internalized dynamics have been carried into the current life, and part of the skipped steps--and a key intention within juno--is to realize the actual objective causes for that event..to realize there were other reasons…reasons within ALL parties involved, including the sister...and allowing this kind of relationship to be recreated in the current life in a way that can be sustained.  Inwardly coming to the previous realizations will provide the opening for self-forgiveness..and REINTERPRETATION.  These two things—inner forgiveness and reinterpretation—will allow the soul to throw off the mental constructs that have created blockages within his sexuality and inner freedom to act on his own instinctual desires/impulses.   

Does this connect intuitively?

By the way..I just wanted to say that the fact I’ve presented this in specific terms does not mean I expect it be taken literally as if confirmed-accurate fact.  It's purely intuitive content..reflected in the core theme of pluto/uranus/mars squaring the nodes (and 6th stellium of which juno is a part) and opposing chiron/vesta…also the 8th house moon in aq and its inconjuncts to the 3rd house.  Also the jupiter rx signature that you pointed out earlier (P.S. note the intercepted signs in 5th/11th).    Also factored into this is saturn and its aspects, mercury (conjunct Juno in sag and BM Lilith in cap) and its aspects..and the resolution nodes for the skipped steps.    I can go back and state these correlations more directly in the actual body of text if you (or anyone) wishes. 

Great job of tuning into that sibling/sexualized relationship dynamic, Ari.  Key piece of the puzzle.


Quote
And so in this life, committing to a partner with whom they can both share a deep commitment to the truth, and relearn true intimacy with God through sexual union. However a part of this process will require a de-conditioning by way of working through pl trauma that manifests as dissociation when it comes to sexuality. It is interesting to note that this soul is in a very loving and committed relationship with another woman. They both love each other very much, however there is no sexual connection. I feel this explains why.

Brilliant observation..

God'dess Bless

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 23, 2010, 06:07 PM
Hi Linda,

Yes of course, happy to do that.  Getting ready to run an errand, but I'll be back later to post the correlations.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 23, 2010, 09:37 PM
Stacie, that was just beautiful. Thank you for exploring all of that.

I'm glad you mentioned that the whole sister story is an intuitive application upon the archetypes. However, when I look at the archetypes involved, I recognize that something so close to that must have been a reality.

Would you mind clarifying where in your interpretation you understood the Moon inconjunct the Virgo stellium- I couldn't quite see that.
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Sep 24, 2010, 03:36 AM
Ok Linda..


Quote
Quote
This of course is a natural soul..in this life what you could call a ‘natural man’.
.......... in the past the soul has chosen to commit itself to partners who reflect the qualities and circumstances of elite social status...the compensatory intention being to associate itself with the symbols that were highly valued by society..the soul trying to make itself an extension of those symbols so that it too would be valued.  

Hi Stacie,

Could you please confirm where the above astrological correlations are found in the chart.


This is a combination of evolutionary state and the dominant mutable archetype represented in the chart.  pluto/uranus/mars is in virgo/3rd..SN in sagg/6th conjunct the sun and juno (and by extension pluto’s ruler mercury)..NN in gemini 12th..chiron and vesta in pisces/9th…saturn in 9th.  Also SN and NN of venus, SN of mercury, and SN of uranus are also in that 6th house in sag.. Black moon lilith in 6th..  

Saggitarius is the root archetype of natural law.  The ‘totality’ of natural law as a conscious living web or universe..Nature..Gaia..daemon consciousness..correlates to the entire mutable archetype: gemini, virgo, saggitarius, pisces.  

The Galactic Center is roughly 28/29 sagg.  Wolf has said that planets within a degree of this point can be indicative of daemon souls.  But there are also daemon charts where this point is occupied by nothing.  The signature in Ari's example chart would certainly support the potential of a daemon soul, but it actually isn't possible to know without the direct observation (I imagine Ari has a sense of this through his observation).  In this way it is similar to determining evolutionary state..the symbols alone won't tell you.  A chart can have dominant mutable planets and sign/house combinations and still not be a daemon soul..and a mutable emphasis won't even guarantee that a soul is a 'natural type'.  it is just as possible the emphasis is reflecting a total distortion of what is natural.  However, in this case, the evolutionary state has provided a tipoff that the individual, at minimum, is going to reflect a 'natural man'.  The reason for this is because by the time a soul evolves into the spiritual state, a sufficient amount of deconditioning has already occurred in consciousness prior to the current life.  That deconditioning archetypically promotes a reorientation in consciousness to natural law/reality.  As a soul continues to evolve through the spiritual state that orientation to natural law becomes progressively deeper and intrinsic, whatever the soul type..

Quote
I expect the above quotes refer specifically to Juno 24 deg Cap in the 6th house (conj Galactic Centre - 'daemon soul')?

Bet ya a hundred bucks you meant to say Sagg  ;D   ..answered above..

Quote
And how the need to be "valued by an elitist society" correlating to Cap/7th is a Libran distortion?

It is a libra distortion yes, though what that distortion is based on and driven by is the essential issue..that issue being trauma.  The need to be valued by society and the compulsion to compensate in various ways to make this happen is a direct function of traumatic memory impacting on the subconscious mind.  In other words, for this soul the compulsion to compensate has been subconsciously motivated, and therefore relatively automatic behavior.  The sheer force of subconscious influence in this case is based on the fact that the traumas being accessed in the soul's long term memory are directly linked to SURVIVAL issues.  The power of the survival instinct can never be underestimated.  We can be 100% sure in our egos that we would behave (or not behave) in a particular way regardless of any circumstance, but a triggered survival instinct can motivate behavior/choices/action that the ego never even dreamed it would carry out.  So in this case the survival instinct has been the underlying force in the compulsion to compensate in order to secure appreciation/approval/resources from society…the subconscious message being 'my survival depends on it'.  

The thing about subconscious messages is that they require no rational explanation.  They simply influence behavior independent of the ego's conscious understanding or awareness.  It becomes a troubling and frustrating issue because the person can't figure why they keep doing what they're doing, even as they fully recognize that their behavior is totally counter to their best interests and intentions.  Yet in the end the soul has to move beyond this stuff in order for its evolution to proceed, so it will set up key circumstances which force the nature of the subconscious content/thought pattern to surface into full conscious awareness, through the focus of those current circumstances.  When this happens it generates the famous question of 'why?'.  Each time one makes a choice to consciously focus on/examine/objectify that 'why', the subconscious grip becomes less and conscious self-determination becomes progressively restored, then providing an opportunity for the soul to apply the self-knowledge that was gained. As the self-knowledge is applied, the core issue itself begins to resolve until it is finally culminated.

Quote
Any comments on Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Lilith all near the DC?

Sure, …though I've arrived at that special time where the little mortal needs some sleeps…ha! 'sleeps'..see what I mean?  Be back tomorrow. ;-)

Thanks Stacie!

And thanks to you Linda :-)


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Oct 03, 2010, 10:26 AM
I am so grateful for this forum, and have learned so much from the input of all from questions and responses.

Rad encapsulated the distortion and the natural feminine archetypes, and apparently all the Goddesses will reflect varying themes along the same lines, depending on culture and timing.

Just read a really good article by Betsy Reed in The Nation titled, "Sex and the GOP," which really describes the distortion we are in. The link, if interested, is

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/72-77/3489-sex-and-the-gop

From the article, is that there is an expected decline of women in congress, the first in the past 30 years, "the irony is that, in this so-called, year of the woman, this result will be, more than anything else, an expression of the preference and passions of angry white men."

After Rad mentioned the US Ceres, I went back and found the US Eris is at 8 Capricorn in the 8th house, natally squared by Saturn in Libra, house 5, also sextile to US natal Ceres 8 Pisces in House 10. Then transiting Eris is 21 Aries Rx conjunct US natal Chiron in house 11. There will be more to come, since the transiting nodes have been over US natal Eris, and transiting Pluto and Ceres will also move over US natal Eris.

So I answered my own question about the Tea Party women above. The distorted archeype of Eris is that she felt snubbed, and responded with stirring up anger, strife, discord, very  much what we are seeing now.

Moving away from this, just wanted to express my appreciation for what everyone expresses here--there have been many times, with all of what is going on has been so overwhelming, being able to come here and read and take in what others are feeling and thinking help more than you know.

God Bless.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 03, 2010, 03:10 PM
The sheer force of subconscious influence in this case is based on the fact that the traumas being accessed in the soul's long term memory are directly linked to SURVIVAL issues............... So in this case the survival instinct has been the underlying force in the compulsion to compensate in order to secure appreciation/approval/resources from society…the subconscious message being 'my survival depends on it'.


Hi Stacie,

Thank you so much for your analysis of JUNO in the chart that Ari posted. Everything you described makes complete sense on an intuitive level.  I understand that the "survival issues" correlate to Taurus 11th.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 03, 2010, 05:15 PM
Hi Brenda,

ERIS

Thanks for the article, and for looking at Ceres and Eris in the US chart as they relate to the Tea Party.  The Comment "Faux women for a faux party. Real women need not apply" aptly portrays the two-fold discussion in this thread, namely, "distorted" and "natural" expressions of the Asteroid Goddesses and dwarf planets.

The 560 year cycle of dwarf planet Eris around the Sun puts her presence in people's charts (who are younger than 80) in Aries. 

Eris is the Greek goddess of strife (Latin 'Discordia').  Her Greek opposite is Harmonia (Latin 'Concordia'). 

I will post some more notes for Eris soon.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 04, 2010, 02:28 AM
Eris
Daughter of the Night
Goddess of discord and strife


•  Discovered on 5 January 2005, Pasadena, Calif.
•  Kuiper Belt Object, slightly larger than Pluto, classified as a plutoid, with a 560 year orbit around the Sun.
•  Greek word meaning strife, root of the word "eristic" meaning to strive or dispute, speaking of an argument or controversy.
•  Eris's role in history was to offer a gift that exposed the recipients to their own shortcomings:  vanity, jealousy, anger, fighting, intolerance, envy and possessiveness.
•  In a more positive myth, she stimulated healthy competition.
•  Connected to Libra, discovered while in Aries, makes her an 'uninvited guest.'
•  Eris was named by astronomers, not astrologers.  Myth is a starting point, but it will be many decades before the meaning of this body will be understood in astrology.
•  Eris' current position is 21.49 deg Aries Rx.


The Legend of Eris in Greek Mythology

Short version:   Because of Eris' disagreeable nature she was the only goddess not to be invited to the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, the parents of the Greek hero Achilles.  When she turned up anyway and was refused admittance, in a rage she threw a golden apple amongst the goddesses Hera, Athena and Aphrodite inscribed "To the fairest."  As these were all beautiful goddesses, it was not an easy decision, so a mortal named Paris was chosen to decide who should have the golden apple. Tempted by Aphrodite's offer of the most comely mortal woman, Paris awarded the prize to the goddess of love. The rivalry of the goddesses brought about the events which then led to the Trojan War.


In Hesiod's Works and Days 11–24, two different goddesses named Eris are distinguished:

    So, after all, there was not one kind of Strife alone, but all over the earth there are two. As for the one, a man would praise her when he came to understand her; but the other is blameworthy: and they are wholly different in nature.
    For one fosters evil war and battle, being cruel: her no man loves; but perforce, through the will of the deathless gods, men pay harsh Strife her honour due.
    But the other is the elder daughter of dark Night (Nyx), and the son of Cronus who sits above and dwells in the aether, set her in the roots of the earth: and she is far kinder to men. She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbour, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbour vies with his neighbour as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men. And potter is angry with potter, and craftsman with craftsman, and beggar is jealous of beggar, and minstrel of minstrel.


Eris' position in the Discovery Chart is 19.45 deg Aries Rx.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Oct 04, 2010, 02:39 PM
Hi Linda,

Thanks so much for all the Eris info. I was going to let this lapse, until Rad mentioning US Ceres, and me checking US Eris.

I did not know Eris as daughter of the night, I love the idea of her stirring others to work--as an alternate to how it is seemingly manifesting right now.

Will be out of town and off line for a week, thanks again.

Brenda


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 10, 2010, 08:38 PM
Hi All,

Back to Ceres for a moment...

Ceres is presently at 24 deg Sagittarius, and will enter Capricorn on 8th October 2010.

Ceres conjuncts Pluto in Capricorn on 19th October 2010.

Just read Stephanie Austin's Aries Full Moon (Oct 22-23) column in TMA.  She writes this about Ceres, which I thought was interesting and insightful:

"As the Great Mother goddess, she gave birth to Plutis, the Greek God of the Earth's wealth.  More recent versions of Plutus/Pluto's abduction of Demeter/Ceres' daughter, Persephone, illustrate the domination of matriarchal goddess cults and the Earth by patriarchal forces."

Perhaps there'll be some revelation of this in some way with the full moon...  At any rate, gives great insight, I think.  Ceres, the Great Mother goddess, in undistorted form gives birth to wealth (natural, harmonious, life-sustaining wealth, not distorted, destructive, greed-based wealth).  Pluto, the wealth of the Earth, coming up and abducting Ceres' daughter, disrupting the natural harmony, is a reflection of the patriarchal distortion.  Demeter pining for her daughter - patriarchal distortion.  One view, anyway.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 10, 2010, 08:54 PM
PS I don't mean that Demeter's natural and normal and necessary emotional response to having her daughter abducted is patriarchal distortion.  But that the circumstances that lead to that are.

Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 13, 2010, 03:13 PM
Hi Ellen,

Thanks for sharing your insights on Ceres.  The creation of the Greek sky gods correlated to a time of destruction of the natural harmony.  The Greek myths are full of mayhem, murder, chaos, abduction, greed, jealousy, bribery, vanity.....  These distortions were virtually unheard of during the matriarchy.

Quote by Rad: It could be very useful to examine the patriarchal overlay/projections into these natural asteroid Goddesses. And in that examination to recreate the actual, NATURAL, meanings and correlations to those asteroids.

I wonder if there are any other myths that can be drawn upon that can give insight into the natural behaviours of the asteroid goddesses?   Take Eris, for example.  What is the natural undistorted expression of Eris?  I found it very difficult to find any natural meaning there at all;  the myth was completely dominated by the patriarchal distortions of human nature.   

Why did Eris have such a disagreeable nature?  It all began with not being invited to the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, or someone 'forgetting' to invite her.  Once she decided to turn up to the wedding anyway, she was refused admittance.  This omission and exclusion then lead to a chain of disastrous events. 

Eris's rage actually began with NON-INCLUSION, the distortion of the Natural Law of "inclusion."   


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: mountainheather on Oct 14, 2010, 06:45 PM
Hi all,
I've been following this thread, and although my knowledge of Greek mythology is limited, I find myself repeatedly going to the book The Women WHo Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes.  She has delved very deeply and soulfully into the many ways the divine feminine, which she calls the Wild Woman archetype, is distorted by our conditioning. Is anyone else familiar with her work?  She uses myth and story telling to describethe archetypes involved in how the feminine is distorted and how it can be reclaimed. Her version of the story of Sedna for example, is quite different than what I've seen elsewhere, a much more empowered summary.  I will see if there are any other parrallels with the other asteroids listed here.
With love for the Wild Woman and Natural Law, Heather   


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 14, 2010, 07:23 PM
Her version of the story of Sedna for example, is quite different than what I've seen elsewhere, a much more empowered summary.  I will see if there are any other parrallels with the other asteroids listed here.
With love for the Wild Woman and Natural Law, Heather   

Hi Heather,

I have heard of her, from many years back.  I know I've heard her speak, not in person, but via video or on tv.  I haven't read her book, though.  Could you give a brief summary of her version of the Sedna myth?

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: mountainheather on Oct 14, 2010, 09:46 PM
Hi Ellen,
Yes, I will send you a summary, I am not at home for the next couple of days but I'll check it out when I get back.
peace be with you too. Heather


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Oct 15, 2010, 10:20 AM
Hi All,

 My thoughts on Eris is that she does not correlate or symbolize anything about the natural feminine in the totality of what a what the natural feminine principle/ archetype is. To me, this creation of Eris comes out of, and manifested by, hopelessly distorted men who, in turn, have distorted the natural feminine because of their own distortions. Thus, the 'projection' of this manifesting as the 'creation' of that 'goddess' by them. In other words, there is no natural feminine to reclaim in this one.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 15, 2010, 02:57 PM
Thank you Rad - my thoughts exactly.  Eris is just a fabrication of distorted men.  I would like to see some deeper meanings emerge for this asteroid as time goes on.  Surely there would have been alternative meanings for the discovery of this asteroid?  Astronomers named this asteroid "Eris" after first naming her "Zena" (after the TV show).  Surely, astrologers during the time of the discovery must have come up with something more sensible.  I wonder if a deeper meaning / symbology can be found for Eris? 

Next, I'll be posting summaries for Lilith and Amazone very soon.  I'm waiting to receive Kristin's CD about Lilith in the mail.  Hope you're around Kristin - we would love your input into these ones! :D


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 15, 2010, 03:10 PM
Hi Linda, All,

I emailed Stephanie Austin to ask her if she could provide some sources that get beyond patriarchal distortions.  Here's part of her response:

"The sources I used are:

God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further.
Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

She also said she probably did some internet searching (she was thinking specifically of the Oct 22 Full Moon).

I suspect many here already know about these sources, but thought I'd share them for those who don't.

Peace,
Ellen



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Oct 15, 2010, 05:23 PM
God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further.
Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

Wow, this is great Ellen.  Stephanie Austin referenced the matriarchal connections to Saturn too over the summer.  I'm going to look for the article.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Oct 15, 2010, 10:27 PM
God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further.
Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

Wow, this is great Ellen.  Stephanie Austin referenced the matriarchal connections to Saturn too over the summer.  I'm going to look for the article.



Hi Wendy,

Yes, I remember that and remember you mentioning it.  I remember feeling just blown away by what she wrote - like just scraped away layers of garbage.  I'll have to go back and look too as I don't remember the details.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: kburgess on Oct 16, 2010, 04:44 PM
Hi all, Early Greek worship of Hera, similar to those of all of the Greek goddesses, involve some notion of fertility.  Sites of Hera worship pre-date those dedicated to Zeus, meaning that worship of her pre-dates that of worship of Zeus.    ;)

-Kim


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 16, 2010, 05:34 PM
Hi Kim,

Hera (Juno)

Welcome to the MB.  You're right, the Greek myth of Hera goes back long before Zeus!

When the Romans conquered Greece in the 3rd century BCE, the two cultures mixed, and so too did their gods and goddesses (Roman "Juno" and Greek "Hera").

In the oral tradition of storytelling passed down by poets and minstrels it was said that the Milky Way was formed from Hera's breast milk.  As the Queen of Heaven, she was the ultimate protector, nurturer and loving mother figure of women throughout their lives.  

Temples were erected in her honor throughout Greece with Argos at Peloponnesus being her main sanctuary.  Many Greeks sought the Great Lady's blessings to enrich and protect their lives.

We can see the patriarchal take-over of the nurturing and loving queen Hera through her marriage to Zeus and his subsequent betrayal and violation of her trust.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: mountainheather on Oct 19, 2010, 06:00 PM


Here is some thoughts about Sedna aka Skeleton Woman:

According to Clarissa Pinkola Estes in the book Women Who Runs with The Wolves the Sedna myth is a Life/Death/Life myth.
 
The LIfe/ Death/ Life nature is an deep inner knowing of the natural cycles of something coming in to being and then something ending.... and then something coming into being again.  Sedna wants us to be in touch with her via our emotional selves, for us to be able to abide with her at the deepest level, in loss and creation, to trust this cycle.  The distortion of patriarchy is the attempt to control this cycle mostly out of fear of death (all forms of death: body, ego, etc), not seeing that life emerges naturally after death too.  I'm not sure how this fits astrologically but it felt relevant to our exploration of the archetype.
 

Heather



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 19, 2010, 07:34 PM
Hi Heather,

Thanks for passing on what you found regarding Estes' thoughts on Sedna.  This is very similar to Rad's interpretation of the Sedna discovery chart:

Rad's quote:  In essence, if the patriarchal distortion to reality continues, the violations to natural laws as a result, then this would suggest and symbolize, to me, the extinction of the human species down the line. We can see in this chart that the core violation to Natural Laws that would equal that possibility being the violation of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion, versus the patriarchal perversion which became self interest and exclusion.

The Greek/Roman myths are so filled with patriarchal distortions, that it is refreshing to read other sources for interpretations and meanings of the asteroids.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Oct 24, 2010, 07:27 PM

Amazon (or Amazone)


Kristin's quote:  She is known to be the greatest female warrior. She takes the lead and drives this movement forward. She says "FOLLOW ME".  The Amazon has been known to single handedly destroy armies of men in order to defend her people and their rights. In this case she represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Her energy is reflected in Rad's quote below.

Rad's quote: The entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not.
 

The asteroid Amazon was discovered on 22 April 1925 by K. Reinmuth, Heidelberg.  The name "Amazone" was proposed by Gustav Stracke in 1925 after the Amazon River.

In Greek mythology "Amazon" is a group or nation of all-female warriors in a region bordering Scythia in Sarmatia (modern territory of Ukraine).  Other historiographers place them in Asia Minor, Libya or India.

The mythic all-female warrior society succumbed to the likes of Heracles and Theseus, and symbolised the triumph of Greek civilization over the barbarian.

Greek mythological Amazons were:
* Antiope, daughter of Ares, lover of Zeus, she was taken prisoner by Hercules and given in marriage to Theseus.
* Penthesilea, Amazon queen, ally of Troy in the Trojan War, she fought
against Achilles by whom she was slain.
* Hippolyte, Amazon queen, sister of Penthesilea.

Queen Penthesilea at Troy was quoted as saying, "Not in strength are we inferior to men;  the same our eyes, our limbs the same;  one common light we see, one air we breathe;  nor different is the food we eat.  What then denied to us hath heaven on man bestowed."

The origin of the word "Amazon" is uncertain.  Derived from various  ethnonym's (ethnic groups):  'warriors' (Iran);  'to make war' (Persia);  'manless, without husbands' (Greek);  'without breast' (Greek).

Among Classical Greek tradition, the Amazons had their right breast cut off or burnt out, so they would be able to use a bow more freely and throw spears without the physical limitation and obstruction;  there is no indication of such a practice in works of art, in which the Amazons are always represented with both breasts, although the right is frequently covered.

The myths of the Amazons are a significant part of human culture.  The Amazon myth was embraced by Greece, and from there spread all over the world.  They were the earliest symbols of a society's fear of feminism.  They questioned the order of life and rose against it.  They would not allow themselves to be treated as less than human.

Historically, Amazons were portrayed as beautiful women in Amazonomachies, an art-form showing battles between the Amazons and Greeks.  Amazons were trained to use all weapons and especially in single combat.  They were honorable, courageous, brave and represented rebellion against sexism.  Their tales spread quickly and soon stories of the Amazons were everywhere, including Africa, Asia, Europe, South America (the Amazon River was named after the female warriors), and North America.

In 1542, Francisco de Orellana reached the Amazon River (Amazonas in Spanish), naming it after a tribe of warlike women he claimed having encountered and fought there.  The whole basin and region of the Amazon (Amazonía in Spanish) were named after the river.  Medieval traveller John Mandeville wrote:  "Beside the land of Chaldea is the land of Amazonia, that is the land of Feminye.  And in that real is all woman and no man;  not as some may say, that men may not live there, but for because that the women will not suffer no men amongst them to be their sovereigns."

Classicist Peter Walcot wrote, "Wherever the Amazons are located by the Greeks, whether it is somewhere along the Black Sea in the distant north-east, or in Libya in the furthest south, it is always beyond the confines of the civilized world. The Amazons exist outside the range of normal human experience."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16fvTonR_gA&feature=related
Unknown Amazonian rain forest tribe, the archetypal self-sufficient society:  The men, carrying bows and arrows, had painted themselves in red and black, signifying war or danger.  They were very very afraid, and there was a clear message: "Go away, we don't want contact."  They are experts at living totally sustainably in the environment in a very self-sufficient way. 
http://www.amazon-indians.org/Matis-Video-01.html


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Oct 25, 2010, 12:31 PM
HI Linda,

Thanks so much for all the research on Amazone.

Just some more thoughts about her...

She is the wildest of all the goddesses and she rules the 3rd chakra, along with Mars and Pluto. Fight or flight. She operates in her natural form via pure instinct, holding nothing back, and she needs absolute freedom to express herself.

In her most natural form she is totally independent, and self-sustaining, totally complete in and unto herself, aligned with Gaia and goddess and the animal kindom..all of mother nature. She has a keen emotional intelligence like that of an animal.

Her natal placement reflects where a Soul can take the LEAD in their life.  Take Joan of Arc for example. She has Amazone in Aries, in the 10th house. A female leading armies of men who was ultimately burned to death - so explicit and all seen in that one symbol.

Currently transiting Amazone is 13 Virgo Which is currently conjunct the North Node of Venus, and here we are talking about her fight for equality, her desire to even the scales in society again.

I have a passage I want to share and will do that when I get a moment..

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Oct 26, 2010, 09:56 AM
EXAMPLE of AMAZONE in a MALE"S chart!

so I checked out JWG's chart out..and is this a coincidence? - he has natal Amazone at 13 Virgo..so an Amazone return right now as we are talking about the AMAZONE.

Wolf has Amazone in Virgo 13 degrees in the 10th house-

This placement can been seen in his desire to empower women in the EA work and empowering women in the world, and to help them heal the repression. He has a true sensitivity for the downtrodden, the underdog, and the less fortunate Souls and woman's power has been snuffed out for centuries due to patriarchal influence. He mentioned having many lives as a woman, so he knows firsthand those wounds too.


The Amazone placement also reflects his own blending of both genders, the equal mix of the two - the 10th house being a house that reflects the male gender, Amazone placement there -the wild woman, the other side of gender but an archetype that naturally embodies male and female qualities. Her strength when naturally operating  is in the coequal balance between the two.
He is a Soul who has actualized both sides of gender and so visually looked male/female at the same time, also a reflection of his stage of evolution.

peace,
kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 04, 2010, 12:19 AM
Amazone

Thanks Kristin for the great info!  It was very interesting to learn that Jeff's Amazone is at 13 deg Virgo.  T-Pluto in Cap will be trining his Amazone in several years time, during which his teachings to empower and heal women in the world could be heightened.  That's certainly happening for myself.

Just reporting that I had a dream a few nights ago in which appeared an Amazone woman (an aspect of my self) - she was VERY tall, about 10 foot, had olive skin, brown hair.  At first I was a little frightened, but after a short while she put me at ease because she was actually very friendly.


Pallas

I see from your Radio Show, Kristin, that Demetra George will be joining you very soon to talk about Pallas.  I'll put together some research findings, and interested students can listen to the show and contribute their thoughts here as to the "natural undistorted expression" of Pallas. 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 06, 2010, 11:06 AM
Hi Lind etal,

Thanks for sharing the dream. Of course the Amazone can be so intimidating at first. Her energy and stature is designed for that very reason because she is bred not only to lead but to protect, a powerful Wild Woman, not just because of her size and strength but because of her connection to the animal kingdom. Your awareness is so keen in your realization that the Amazone was an aspect of yourself. There is a warrior in all women in terms of where they initiate their own unique individuality and how they express their nature to the world.
Every woman is rooted in a certain chakra ie designed by God/dess with the inherent strength of that chakra and the archetypes reflected in that energy center. But the goal, although rooted in one, is to EMBODY ALL of the goddess archetypes within you. To have all the chakras open, alive and pumping.

For example, the Amazone may be rooted in chakra #3 - pure instinct - but she would need to access the heart - bhakti, to find compassion in certain situations to do the right thing. She may need to come from the heart to make the right decision and this would require that the heart be open as well. She would need her psychic senses to be sharp to sense when there is danger near and this is reflected in the 6th chakra and so on....

"To find the Wild Woman, it is necessary, for women to return to their instinctive lives, their deepest knowing. So let us push on now and remember ourselves back to the Wild Woman Soul. Let us sing her flesh back onto our bones. Shed any false coats we have been given. Don the true coat of powerful instinct and knowing. Infiltrate the psychic lands that once belonged to us. Unfurl the bandages, ready the medicine. Let us return now, wild woman howling, laughing, singing up to The One who loves us so. For us the issue is simple. Without Us , Wild Woman dies, Without Wild Woman, we die.

Para Vida, for true life, we both must live!"

(Excerpt from "Women who run with the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estes)

Yes..looking forward now to Palls and the show with Demetra next week.
Thanks Linda for all of your efforts and contributions..

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 09, 2010, 02:38 PM
To all who are interested in listening to Kristin's interview with Demetra George on "Pallas" in a few day's time, here's a link to Guiding Stars Radio:

http://www.healthylife.net/RadioShow/archiveGS.htm






Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Nov 11, 2010, 10:34 PM
Here's an interesting link about women in the Amazon and their relations.  I thought it appropro for our recent discussion of the asteroid Amazon.

http://io9.com/5687207/in-the-ancient-amazon-children-had-many-fathers-+-and-women-many-lovers (http://io9.com/5687207/in-the-ancient-amazon-children-had-many-fathers-+-and-women-many-lovers)

Blessed Be,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 13, 2010, 12:04 PM
HI all,

Wendy..thanks for that link..not too many natural tribes left. Also feel it is important to remind people that the Amazon does not just come from the Amazon basin but she is an archetype who has been born out of  many cultures from Crete, to India to Europe and of course she still exists across the globe today.

***

Thanks also Linda for posting the radio link. We had a wonderful show with Demetra George. Loads of valuable insights on Pallas. Linda, I know you are researching more about Pallas and will soon share but I thought I would add a few thoughts on the heels of this interview with Demetra which is available in the archives for those of you who missed it.

As I mentioned on air what I found most impressive about Pallas is her ability to HOLD HER OWN in a man's world. (unfortunately she was denied her femininity, to operate like a man, in order to maintain her freedom) Demetra shared that when asked who the most important Goddess is in Modern women, she said unequivocally Pallas Athene because while all of the other Greek Goddess as part of the patriarchal insurgence were demoted and demeaned and respectable women locked in their home, Palls had the FREEDOM TO WALK AS AN EQUAL.

I remember Wolf sharing that Pallas rules the Medulla thus connects to PSYCHIC DOWNLOADS and so I checked his chart to see where Pallas landed. For those of you that do not have his data  -
Dec 2,1946 4:52am, Hollywood,Ca.

His Pallas is 19 Capricorn, which happens to be conjunct his South Node of Pluto in his second house., The ruler is Saturn, which is in his 9th house and is balsamic to his natal Pluto in Leo. This reflect the psychic downloads on all the ENTIRE PLUTO BOOK that came into him, Yukteswar was a Taurus by the way and Wolf's Pallas is in a Taurus house. The ruler being Saturn in Leo, the AUTHORITY, the Father of this knowledge, in the 9th, the work going global, international and having a far reaching impact.
This ninth house energy also reflects the teaching of Natural Law and the balsamic conjunction to Pluto reflects the ancient wisdom that it is.
His Pluto and Saturn also trines his Sun and South Node, South Node of Uranus and South Node of Venus which re-states pulling natural truths from the past and having all the memories that go with it., South Node of Uranus on his South node. Uranus connects to long term memory.
Wolf's Pallas at 19 Cap also sextiles his Moon in Pisces in the 4th reflecting his focus on empowering women and healing the distortions. Pallas sextiles his Venus Rx Scorpio on the other side which restates this need to re-establish Soul balance on Earth and the importance of not denying our essential Soul need for balance and the importance to recover the feminine power.
His Mercury, the ruler of his North Node in Gemini, is conjunct that Venus rx and Jupiter - clearly he came her to be a teacher of the Soul..essentially a messenger for God - Jupiter in Scorpio in the 12th.

EA is incredible - I am consistently IN AWE at its precision...What a gift we have been given...thanks Chief!

Namaste,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 13, 2010, 06:15 PM
Hi All,

I have not been able to follow this thread very closely due to time limitations, but I wanted to mention that in the newest issue of The Mountain Astrologer there is an article on Eris.  I haven't read it, but it suggests that Xena is the more appropriate archetype for this asteroid.  Thought that might be of interest.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 13, 2010, 06:28 PM
Thanks Ellen for passing that on. I cannot get The Mountain Astrologer in my country.  If anyone would care to paraphrase the article on Eris/Xena, I'd be grateful, and I'm sure others would be too.  Thanks.

I just listened to Demetra and Kristin last night talking about Pallas. Putting together some notes very soon.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 13, 2010, 07:56 PM
Thanks Ellen for passing that on. I cannot get The Mountain Astrologer in my country.  If anyone would care to paraphrase the article on Eris/Xena, I'd be grateful, and I'm sure others would be too.  Thanks.

I just listened to Demetra and Kristin last night talking about Pallas. Putting together some notes very soon.

Hi Linda,

Bummer about not getting TMA in your country.  I'll try to read through the article tonight and see what I can do for a summary.  In the meantime I emailed the author asking if it might be possible to get a copy of the article that I could email to you.  Hopefully she'll respond and that will be possible.  It looks like the article was excerpted (at least in part) from a recently published book, so that might be something you want to look into.  The book is called, Finding Our Center: Wisdom from the Stars and Planets in Times of Change.  The author is Heather Ensworth.  She's an astrologer, psychologist and Shaman.  Her website is risingmoonhealingcenter.com.

Hope this helps in the meantime.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 13, 2010, 09:39 PM
Summary of the TMA article, Exploring the Meaning of the Dwarf Planet, Eris (Or Is It Really Xena?)
Author: Heather Ensworth
TMA issue #154, Dec/Jan 2011
pp. 59-64
_______________________________
1.)   The dwarf planet Eris was originally named Xena.  The name Eris came about in response to the intense argument among astronomers about how to categorize Pluto, Ceres and Eris.  Ensworth says this:  “Characteristic of all these examples of men and women [she cites Lucy Lawless, Gloria Steinem, Joan Baez, Al Gore and Richard Tarnas] with prominent Eris/Xena chart placements is their tendency to challenge society’s mores and to follow a unique path as reformers.  Such people are frequently targeted with negative projections in much the same way that the dwarf planet was seen as the instigator of conflict among astronomers and was therefore named ‘Eris’” (p. 64).  Extremely interesting and insightful point.
2.)   Eris, like Uranus, was renamed.  And, like Uranus, the original name better reflects the energy of the archetype.  The accepted name, in contrast, seems to contradict the true archetypal energies.  Uranus, for example, being a god who resisted change where Prometheus was the bringer of change.  She says about the Eris myth (Paris, Helen, Troy, etc.): “In the end, the need to be the best, the one chosen from the field of competitors, led to the downfall of all the people involved.  Ironically, the astronomers – in their apparent need to avoid expanding the community of officially designated ‘planets,’ which would result from a more liberal definition of the term – may have set themselves up for ongoing conflict.” (p. 60)
3.)   She makes the really interesting point about the criteria established for planetary status (at the time that Pluto was demoted to a dwarf planet and Ceres, Eris and Sedna were elevated to dwarf status) mirroring the isolated and individualistic ways of the dominant culture of these times.  The criteria are: a) “the planet has to be in orbit around the Sun”; b) “it has to have “sufficient mass so as to be nearly round in shape”; and c) sufficient mass [I think] to “have ‘cleared the neighborhood around its orbit.’”  She says this: “From a philosophical perspective, these new criteria for planetary status, formulated by the IAU, are significant.  In essence, this creates a definition of importance that is characterized by isolation and individualism.  To be a planet, it is important to be large and to so dominate your own field of movement that you are the only primary body in that area of space.  This may reflect our Western cultural idealization of separation and individuation, by which we also measure our human psychological functioning.” (p. 59)
4.)   Continuing on the above insight, she suggests that the dwarf planets, including Eris/Xena, serve the function of bringing us back to a sense of community.  She writes: “All of these planetary bodies are an integral part of a larger community of asteroids and planets; they perhaps bring into our collective consciousness a corrective to the idealization of individuation and a new perspective about connection and community. “  She goes on to write: “At the same time that many scientists are questioning whether our solar system may be part of a binary star system – and just as we are on the cusp of the Age of Aquarius, with its emphasis on collaboration and community – it seems fitting that these new planetary bodies are challenging our cultural over-emphasis on individualism.” (pp. 59-60)
5.)   Xena.  Named by Michael Brown, astronomer, after the t.v. character played by Lucy Lawless.  The archetype: witnessing the destruction of her village as a child, Xena raged through life, seeking revenge for the murder of her family until she realizes that she had become no different than those who destroyed her childhood community.  From this moment on she becomes a warrior for peace and justice.  In a sense, the reverse of the Eris archetype.  Here’s what Ensworth writes: “Xena’s journey represented a spiritual quest without allegiance to any religious institution or defined belief system, and in this sense, it was very Aquarian.  Accompanied by her friends, she roamed across the countryside and formed relationships with the diverse people that she encountered along the way, relating to them without regard to their status, power, or wealth – again, Aquarian traits.  She rebelled against authorities or laws that were not in alignment with what she felt was just and fair, which is also Aquarian.  As part of a modern myth, developed out of modern technology, Xena symbolizes many of the patterns characteristic of the Aquarian Age that we are moving into.”  She goes on to point out that, whereas western culture idealizes logic and duality, Xena “followed her own path, guided by intuition and life experience, in attunement with her body and the natural world around her.  Her spirituality was an embodied one, not one of religious beliefs or dogma….She represents a return to natural law…”
6.)   Ensworth suggests that, because of the eccentricity of her orbit, we should not consider the sign that she is in when interpreting her meaning.   Rather, we should consider the meaning of the constellation through which she is travelling.  Currently, that constellation would be Cetus.  Cetus is in an area of the sky known as “the Water” and is associated with Tiamat.  Tiamat comes from Babylonian and Sumerian mythology and represents the “primordial waters from which all life comes.”  Ensworth writes: “She gave birth to the dragons and serpents, which we know were the earliest images of the Sacred Feminine and the divine… Tiamat was the supreme goddess of the sea and of the source, the chaos, of creation.”  I will end with this final quotation: “So, our new dwarf planet, as she passes through this constellation, reminds us of the depths, the source of all life, and of the power of chaos, the cauldron of creation and destruction.  She heralds the return of the Sacred Feminine and the dissolution and transformation of our current patriarchal belief systems.  She encourages us to let go of our personal stories, to dive deep, and to return to right relationship with Source and with all life.”  (P. 61)  Pretty cool.
7.)   One final thing.  Whereas the official name of Eris’ moon is Dysnomia (“demon of lawlessness”), Xena’s moon is named Gabrielle after Xena’s companion.  Gabrielle “was known for her sensitivity, compassion, and love of mythology, the way in which stories weave meaning and connections in our lives.” (p. 60)

Hope this helps.  I thought it was an EXTREMELY insightful article.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Elen on Nov 14, 2010, 10:15 AM
One thing that is interesting to me is that the area of sky known as the Water is in the southern part of the sky.  Given that our current orientation in terms of isolation, individualism and dominance seems to be driven by a northern dominance, this southern location is interesting...

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 14, 2010, 09:12 PM
Thanks Ellen for that summary of the TMA article on Eris - it will be very helpful and useful to EA students.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 14, 2010, 09:34 PM
PALLAS ATHENA


Kristin Fontana interviews Demetra George


“The most important goddess for modern women is unequivocally Pallas Athena.”
“She is a very poignant image for the emergence of the feminine consciousness
and power that is occurring in the last few decades.”
 –  DG


Description
•  In the mandala of the asteroid goddesses, Ceres is placed on the IC and Pallas Athena on the MC.  
•  Ceres represents using the creative sexual energy to give birth to children, and to grow food in the seasons.
•  Pallas Athena reverses that direction.  She takes that sexual creative energy and, instead of moving it out through the genital organs, moves it up the central spinal canal so that it comes out of the top of the head – as giving birth to our mental and artistic children.
•  She represents the nature of our creative mind as manifesting and giving forth our realized accomplishments in the world.  
 

Greek myth
•  Born out of the top of the head of her father Jupiter as his brain child, goddess of wisdom, goddess of war.
•  Took her place at the right hand side of her father as his favourite daughter.  
•  (In classical versions of the myth) she was a virgin goddess denied having any consorts or lovers or children.  She was dressed in cold steel war armour to cover up any aspect of her womanly body.  
•  The myth denied her ever having had a mother at all, and that Jupiter was her only parent.  
•  There was a contest between her and Poseidon (Neptune).  Whoever could give the city the better gift would be awarded rulership of the city.  Neptune took his trident and stuck it in the rock on top of the Acropolis and out came a salt spring. Pallas Athena planted an olive tree.  It was decided that the olive tree was a much better gift because it provided food and shelter and shade.  She became the ruling goddess of Athens.  
•  Neptune got mad:  Women would no longer be able to keep their own names but had to use their father’s names. They were no longer allowed to own their property, and no longer allowed to give their names to their children.
•  Having won the contest, women were going to have to suffer and pay for it.  Here we see one of the transitions between the matriarchal and patriarchal perspectives.  
•  While all of the other Greek goddesses (particularly as the patriarchal period became more entrenched) were demoted and demeaned, Pallas Athena was the image of a women who was strong, smart, creative, intelligent, powerful, who had the freedom to walk as an equal in the world of men.  
•  “She had the freedom to walk as an equal,” but paid a very dear price for this privilege:  the denial of her femininity.
•  Protector of Athens, to protect and defend the people of her city, very strong warrior aspect.  
•  Was considered to be a better warrior goddess than Mars was god.  Was valued by the Greeks for her mind.  Mars used brute strength, she used her wit.


Kundalini – Serpent power
•  In earlier symbolism of Athena, she is depicted in statues with a huge serpent at her side.
•  Sacred serpents lived in the most holy temple on the Acropolis, were fed milk and honey cakes, and were part of the rites.
•  On her breastplate she wears the head of the gorgon Medusa whose head is filled with winding serpents.  
•  Her original nature is the goddess of the serpent power.  
•  The serpent that guarded the oracular temples was understood as the symbol of wisdom.
•  The serpent was always connected with wisdom and healing.  
•  Bible says, ‘Be ye wise as a serpent.’
•  Behind the cold, strategic, logical, rational goddess of war that the patriarchy projected her as, this is the goddess who holds the secrets of the kundalini serpent energy/power of wisdom and healing coiled at the base of the spine.
•  Her energy moves up through the chakras.  Associated with Scorpio energy, upper chakras, 3rd eye, crown chakra, very psychic.
•  Indian Yogic tradition, alternate nostril breathing, balances the male and feminine channels, awakens kundalini coiled at the base of our spine, it rises upward through the spinal canal, and comes out of the top of the head as cosmic illumination (Pallas Athena).
•  Serpents and the goddess were paired together from the earliest imagery in ancient Sumeria, 3000 BC:  images of the goddess with serpent heads or nursing serpent babies on their breast.  
•  Very popular images of goddess from Crete and Babylonia holding two serpents in each hand.
•  Egyptian goddess associated with wisdom and war, depicted with the cobra.  Skeletons of serpents found in the ruins of her ancient oracle city.  
•  Northern Africa, Libya, Goddess “Anassa,” the precursor of Athena, had 3 forms:  maiden, mother, crow, embodied women as wise, strong warriors.
•  Another aspect of this trinity was Medusa, the serpent haired queen of wisdom, associated with the 3rd phase of the trinity, magic, regeneration, sexual mysteries.  
•  In ancient arts, when serpents were depicted on goddesses, below the waist was associated with fertility, above the waist, especially on the head, was associated with wisdom.  
•  Worshiped in Crete, became known as Athena protector of the palace. Serpents would eat the milk and honey prepared for them.  
•  From the Mycenaean Greeks we get Athena’s birth story to Jupiter here.  Jupiter involved in war against his father Saturn.  Sea goddess Mentes (middle of this trinity) gives Jupiter a potion that causes Saturn to vomit up swallowed brothers and sisters.  They take up arms, and win the war.  Jupiter, as king, ordered Mentes to be his consort, she refused, he pursued, and she became pregnant with Athena.  An oracle told of Mentes pregnancy to a second child to supersede Jupiter, but in order to prevent it, he swallowed Mentes whole.  One day, walking along the shores of Lake Tritonis in Libya (lake of the triple queen), Jupiter gets a headache.  His head is axed open and out springs Athena his daughter dressed in full armour.
•  Robert Graves says she represents the ingestion and adaptation of the old feminine wisdom principle to the needs of the new patriarchal order.  
•  From this myth, in the level of yogic practice, we see that through internalization of the goddess Mentes pregnant with Athena, Jupiter, through him absorbing the contra-sexual polarity into himself, awakened the kundalini – and that consciousness came out through his head.  
•  Athena wears the Medusa serpent on her breastplate whose hair is filled with snakes and represents the awakening of the kundalini (pure electricity and power), her secret nature behind the logical strategic goddess of war.  


Modern message of the Athena archetype
•  Dilemma:  If you are a women and you want to be strong and powerful in men’s territory, they won’t consider you to be a real woman, and will deny you the validation of protection and relationship.  
•  Women who want to be as good as they possibly can in their chosen field often at the cost of intimate relationships and family.  
•  Girls at school whose intelligence is too threatening to the male ego.
•  What does it mean to be a modern Athena woman (and man)?  The movement toward androgyny (asexuality) that Athena represents, born of the androgynous condition of her father Jupiter, where he assimilated the feminine into himself.  
•  Not being polarized at the sexual extremes (“girly” woman or “macho” guy), but balancing the male and female energy within, calling up the contra (opposite) sexual polarity.  
•  Women who are smart, good in sports, warriors in the world.
•  Men, in their feminine polarity, who excel in the arts and other areas.  
•  Clever girls at school seen as too threatening to be asked on dates – or men being great friends but not dateable material – because they both don’t conform to the extreme sexual stereotypes.
•  Tremendous frustration of sexual energy puts pressure on the kundalini as the energy to be used for mind and art.
•  Prominent Athena useful and helpful in counseling:  “What is the individual relationship to the contra-sexual polarity within them?  “Has that created frustration in the early part of their life?” “What have they done in terms of that in their own creative process?”


Pallas Athena in the chart
•  Jungian psychology of the armoured Amazon, valuing of one’s rational logical strategic cold analytic qualities that help one succeed in the outer world, and seeing one’s emotions feeling and vulnerabilities as being weak and undesirable. And how that spills over into the issues we have with our fathers, the issues we have in rejecting our mothers or what the feminine represents.  
•  Healing our relationship to our own feminine.
•  Learning how to accept the feminine while in the outer patriarchal world.  
•  The essence of the feminine contains wisdom and strength (these are not only masculine qualities).  
•  The healing of the soul.


Afflicted Pallas
•  Squares or oppositions from Saturn:  the suppression of one’s wisdom nature.
•  Seeing a women as being less feminine or less womanly because of the expression of her wisdom.  
•  The repercussions to being smart, to expressing the pure Athena energy, to being as good as you possibly can be, as the feminine seeks to actualize that in the world.


Famous people with strong Pallas Athena
•  Amelia Earhart, PA on her Asc, “I can do anything a man can do, and I can do it better.”
•  Simone de Beauvoir, lover of Jean Paul Sartre, PA/Moon in the 10th, books on the new wave of feminine consciousness emergence in the early 1900’s.  
•  Marie Curie, winner of Nobel prize.
•  Abraham Lincoln and Charles Darwin, both with PA conjunct Sun in Aquarius.


Many Thanks from EA students
to Kristin and Demetra
for a great informative interview!





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Nov 20, 2010, 12:09 AM
Pallas Athena


Pallas is associated with the AIR element (Scorpio was mentioned earlier on).  Here's an excerpt from Demetra's book, "Astrology for Yourself" --


Associated with the element Air, the Suit of Swords and the Justice Key in the Tarot, and the yellow ray of intellect, she symbolizes getting into our heads.  As the prototype of the artistically creative and intelligent woman, Pallas mirrors our desire to strive for excellence in a chosen field of creative expression. 

Mythologically Pallas was made to deny her femininity in order to exercise her wisdom, courage and creative abilities.  The artificial separation between being intelligent and being a "real woman" lies at the root of the modern day conflict women feel in choosing between career goals and relationship needs.

In the birth chart, Pallas gravitates to working with holistic health techniques that integrate whole patterns of the psyche.  She also governs all mental healing techniques--visualization, meditation, affirmation, guided imagery and hypnosis.


The undistorted, natural Pallas enables us to reconcile the unnecessary separation between our love nature and our mental-creative wisdom. 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Nov 21, 2010, 10:26 PM
hey kristin,

i have wolf's amazone @ 5 virgo in the 10th...is that what you meant to say?

speaking of the correlation to wolf's desire to help/speak out on behalf of the downtrodden:  i'm sure many here remember the fire in wolf's words when he spoke of the injustices/abuses of power that occurred in the GWB administration.  george w. bush has mars at 9 virgo..conjunct wolf's amazone. hmmm..

stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: kburgess on Dec 08, 2010, 07:35 PM
If we look at the pre-Classical (ancient) Greek manifestations of Juno we find that she was a fertility goddess.  Many shrines to her have been found that pre-date those of Zeus indicating that she held great significance before he came along as a god of worship.  If we consider her relationship to fertility (nature) we can perhaps then consider her as our own relationship to our own fecundity/sexuality/creativity.  As time went on and Juno lost strength and became the somewhat demented, hysteric Hera, we see patriarchal energies enervating Juno and diminishing her to the jealous, seething wife of Zeus, pushed to the background while Zeus gets all the glory.   I believe it is necessary in our individual soul's journey to re-energize Juno and to ask ourselves what is it that we are committed to creating? Juno can reveal both our greatest weakness (our so-called patriarchal Achilles heal), as well as our path to commitment to the Divine.    :o  Any thoughts?
-Kim



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Dec 08, 2010, 11:07 PM
Hi Kim,

Good to hear from you again.  Juno is presently at 24 deg Virgo:  could this be describing the patriarchal Achilles heal suffered in sadomasochistic relationships?  Looking very deeply into the state of our relationships continues as Venus moves through Scorpio.    

Quote by Patricia Walsh in the Libra archetype thread:
.....for many who meet those they have unfinished business with, the relationship can have a trance like quality to it. There is something deep in the soul that is desiring completion, and that unconscious desire floods and takes over the consciousness. It's like being possessed by ones own unconscious complexes. But that is how these complexes become conscious... and then can be worked on. In EA we consider Libra to be the precursor to deep committed relationship that happens in Scorpio. To me Libra is more like flirting with the relationship (the worm on the hook) where Scorpio is where one bites and gets hooked). So in Libra (with Venus and Neptune's influence) a relationship can look and feel promising yet can turn out to have a very different reality.

Juno is associated with Libra and Scorpio.

Kim's quote:  
I believe it is necessary in our individual soul's journey to re-energize Juno and to ask ourselves what is it that we are committed to creating? Juno can reveal both our greatest weakness (our so-called patriarchal Achilles heal), as well as our path to commitment to the Divine.

Great quote Kim.  

I just hope that women are striving to make better choices in relationship for equality, balance, commitment, honesty and understanding.  My aim is to educate women to become conscious of their individual complexes and work on them.  Having Juno in Aquarius enables me to take a dispassionate look at my relationships, and gives amazing strength to make the right choices.  And perhaps the asteroid Amazone could be operating there too.

Quote from Kristin:
.....she [Amazon] represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Btw, glad this thread is still happening.  I had intended to return soon.  We'll be looking at Lilith next, unless you'd like to examine another asteroid?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 18, 2011, 09:16 AM
Had to go digging back far for this one. Had  a question, while it is an overall evolutionary impulse to reclaim/integrate the undistorted archetypes--, if a person --looking specifically at the asteroid goddesses, if there were many retrogrades natally or by progression--would it be even more incumbent for that person to reclaim the undistorted archetype in this lifetime?

For a person dealing with this, would they perhaps be confronted with many crises and induce a more inward internalization until this is achieved?

Thank you.

Rad's quote (from an earlier page on this link)-

And, of course, the entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not. The entire message of this natal Sedna chart is to utterly rebel against all that is unnatural. To throw it off, to oppose it. This entire chart is about how women has been used as men's scapegoats, of how they have been defined through the patriarchal distorted centuries as something dark, evil, the 'temptation' to man's spiritual downfall.







Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Sep 19, 2011, 06:27 AM
HI Brenda,

"Had to go digging back far for this one. Had  a question, while it is an overall evolutionary impulse to reclaim/integrate the undistorted archetypes--, if a person --looking specifically at the asteroid goddesses, if there were many retrogrades natally or by progression--would it be even more incumbent for that person to reclaim the undistorted archetype in this lifetime?

***********************

It depends on the evolutionary state of the Soul itself. From the individuated state onwards the answer would be yes yet the recovery would be an ongoing evolutionary process that could be finally realized within the 1st spiritual state.

************************

"For a person dealing with this, would they perhaps be confronted with many crises and induce a more inward internalization until this is achieved?"

************************

This depends, again, on the evolutionary state of the person and other evolutionary factors. This would be one of the ways until internal realization was achieved.

*****************

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: BrendaP on Sep 19, 2011, 02:40 PM
Thank you for the clarification, can get tunnel vision here.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Tory on Apr 29, 2012, 04:06 PM
Hi All,

 My thoughts on Eris is that she does not correlate or symbolize anything about the natural feminine in the totality of what a what the natural feminine principle/ archetype is. To me, this creation of Eris comes out of, and manifested by, hopelessly distorted men who, in turn, have distorted the natural feminine because of their own distortions. Thus, the 'projection' of this manifesting as the 'creation' of that 'goddess' by them. In other words, there is no natural feminine to reclaim in this one.

God Bless, Rad

Dear Rad, Linda, Elen,

Thankyou for your insights into Eris
I have a minor question and comment regarding Eris on this previous thread, hope you don't mind?

Quote from wiki:
"According to science writer Govert Schilling, Brown initially wanted to call the object "Lila", after a concept in Hindu mythology that described the cosmos as the outcome of a game played by Brahma. The name was very similar to "Lilah", the name of Brown's newborn daughter. Brown was mindful of not making his name public before it had been officially accepted. He had done so with Sedna a year previously, and had been heavily criticised. However, he listed the address of his personal web page announcing the discovery as /~mbrown/planetlila and in the chaos following the controversy over the discovery of Haumea, forgot to change it. Rather than needlessly anger more of his fellow astronomers, he simply said that the webpage had been named for his daughter and dropped "Lila" from consideration."

Brown's personal web page about Eris still has the same URL
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/

How significant do you think this is? Could this actually be considered Eris's first name? If he changed his mind or didn't follow through i guess the answer is no. Discord and strife seem somehow inherent in the naming process of Eris, or at least confusion (so many different names) and avoiding more upset?

I was surprised when i discovered Brown first wanted to call Eris, sanskrit Lila. I have Eris natally exactly conjunct my sun/IC/ and within orb (couple of degrees) of chiron/mercury/north node. Last year i started a healing centre called "espace Lila", espace in french is another work for centre. Each time i look closely at asteroids in a chart there is this kind of synchronicity, it's amazing.

Light and Respect
Tory



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Apr 30, 2012, 08:05 AM
Hi Tory,

Well, to me, this is similar to when we have a child and we go back and forth with this or that name which then leads to the name we finally decide upon for the child. That then becomes the name of that child for life of course. So, to me, this is why Eris is Eris.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Tory on Apr 30, 2012, 10:23 AM
Hi Tory,

Well, to me, this is similar to when we have a child and we go back and forth with this or that name which then leads to the name we finally decide upon for the child. That then becomes the name of that child for life of course. So, to me, this is why Eris is Eris.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad

Right, that is a good analogy. My reflection on this situation leads me to think of EA's emphasis on "observation and correlation". Each soul's experience being individual, my experience with Eris leads me to Lila, when for another person it must be an altogether different experience.

Thanks
Tory


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 25, 2013, 07:06 PM
This is a great thread. Did we never get to Lilith? I can't find much through a search. If anyone is up for explaining Lilith from e.a. point of view I would be interested.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Mar 25, 2013, 07:56 PM
Hi Sunyata,

We never got to Lilith, so let's start now.


THE THREE LILITHS


Here are some extracts from Wikipedia, the EA Glossary, and our EA message board:


Asteroid Lilith was discovered on February 11, 1927 by Benjamin Jekhowsky. It is part of the main asteroid belt outside the orbit of Mars. It is named in the honour of French classical music composer Lili Boulanger.  Since Asteroid Lilith is the only verifiable body that exists, there is only one actual discovery chart (see below).


Asteroid Lilith (also called Original Lilith):  1181 on Astrodienst
"True" Black Moon Lilith: h13 (EA uses this one)
"Mean" Black Moon Lilith:  'Lilith' under Additional Objects      [thanks Jason!]
Dark Moon Lilith:  h58, 'Waldermath'


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) is a real asteroid. It is the only Lilith that is an actual, verifiable physical body. In the main asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Takes 4 years to orbit the Sun. Spends 132 days in each sign.

Black Moon Lilith (true/osculating):  Not a solid objection. It is a mathematical point of alignment, the apogee of the Moon’s orbit, furthest away from the Earth. 9 year orbit. Spends 9 months in each sign.  EA uses the True Apogee for Black Moon Lilith.

Dark Moon Lilith is a real body in the sky, a ‘hypothetical planet’ resembling a dust cloud, or a second Moon of Earth. Takes 119 days to orbit the Earth. Spends 10 days in each sign.


“The asteroids are symbolic transformers between two energy systems and point to the techniques by which the lower octave vibrations may be raised to a higher octave.  The Asteroid Lilith describes the first stage in the mythical journey where she is  suppressed, humiliated and flees in a fiery rage to the desolate wilderness.  The Dark Moon Lilith depicts the pain of her exile where she plots and executes revenge.  The Black Moon Lilith shows how she transmutes her distorted image back into its natural healthy expression.” (Demetra George)


Asteroid Lilith indicates where our WOUND originated.  Dark Moon Lilith signifies how and where we experience the distorted aspects of Lilith in our lives – her anguish, bitterness, betrayal, alienation, fear and hatred of sexuality, and revenge.  Black Moon Lilith shows how and where we cut away our pretensions, false roles, and delusions and actualize who we essentially are. (Adina)


~      ~      ~


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) (4-5 year cycle) describes the original Lilith. We have all ‘imprinted’ in us the original, undistorted, female image, which is defined by the natal placement of an individual’s asteroid Lilith. Where we feel free to move, act and speak our truth. This correlates in the current life to what our underlying ideal image is of a woman. The true and NATURAL expression of Lilith is that of pure, raw, feminine beauty. A woman that would chose freedom over just about anything. She is Pluto and she is also Mars. She was honored and praised for initiating and fully expressing her personal freedom and sexual passion. “In her original state, she is a symbol of true feminine power – complete unto herself and embodying her own brand of feminine self-containment, assertion and wholeness” (O’Donnell). Lilith is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto. (Kristin)

Dark Moon Lilith (119-177 day cycle) signifies how and where we experience the distorted aspects of Lilith in our lives – her anguish, bitterness, betrayal, alienation, fear and hatred of sexuality, and revenge. For centuries men and women have been conditioned by our patriarchal culture to suppress this feminine strength which has resulted in bitterness and resentment, inevitably leading to distortion and rage. How this distortion is played out is indicated by the natal placement of the Dark Moon Lilith. Dark Moon Lilith is the distorted Lilith representing Lilith’s flee into a fiery rage of exile where she plots and executes her revenge. Find your Dark Moon Lilith placement and know that this area ***also creates a channel by which we can release the rage.*** (Kristin)

Black Moon Lilith shows how and where we cut away our pretensions, false roles, and delusions and actualize who we essentially are. The Black Moon Lilith (9 year cycle) is the resolution Lilith where one’s distorted image may be transformed into a natural healthy expression. The dark Goddess’s crescent shape knife cuts away all that is not authentic in our lives. The ENFORCED (I REPEAT ENFORCED) clarity of the Black Moon allows us to penetrate to the essence, eliminating all things that are unnecessary, false and impure. Wherever you find the resolution Lilith in your chart, represents an area where it will take tremendous COURAGE, where you can release the repressed anger from lifetimes and be set free. It is also an area of TRANSFORMATION – creative energy of the feminine GODDESS pours into you. Lilith is the NATURAL WILD WOMAN in the birth chart so the Moon and the Nodes must be incorporated in the interpretation as well as Venus.  Stressful aspects between Black Moon Lilith and Mars, the planet that most clearly expresses the masculine power, may indicate that a woman’s independence and confidence is threatened or met with opposition by men. Her own inner male is not strong.  Women who have hard aspects from Black Moon Lilith to the Moon or in the 5th may have problems with pregnancy or childbirth, possible miscarriage, unwanted pregnancy, or a fear of motherhood. Often times transiting Black Moon Lilith can bring back feelings of emotional pain, but only if it is in the area where you have compromised your primal nature. Lilith forces us to look at ourselves with utter naked EMOTIONAL honesty. (Kristin)






LILITH DISCOVERY CHART

Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) 7.18 Leo Rx (1181) - Appears as 'Lilit'
Dark Moon Lilith 22.10 Cap (h58) - Appears as 'Walde'
True BML 6.29 Virgo (h13) - Appears as OSC.L - EA uses this one
Mean BML 27.35 Virgo (Lilith under Additional Objects) - Appears as Crescent on a cross


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 26, 2013, 05:27 PM
Thanks so much.

So on astrodienst I chose Lilith in the asteroids, then also typed in 1181, h13, and h58 on additional objects and I have the asteroid which is the crescent moon on a cross conjunct my ascendent in the 12th then osc. lilith aslo conjunct my ascendent but in the 1st, then 1181 shows up as lilith but is at 11 libra conjunct my uranus in 1st and then waldermath is in the 12th conjunct my south node..... so I have 4 different things.... but should there only be three?

Ok so I see Dark moon is waldermath, I see osc. Lilith is black moon, then there is an asteroid with the crescent moon on a cross and 1181 which shows up as lilith as well. What is the difference between the last two?



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 26, 2013, 06:39 PM
Hi Sunyata,

The reason that you have four items is because you are displaying:

Asteroid Lilith (shows up in astro.com as "1181")
Dark Moon Lilith (shows up in astro.com as "Waldemath")
True Black Moon Lilith (shows up in astro.com as "Oscillating Lilith")
Mean Black Moon Lilith (shows up in astro.com as Crescent on a Cross)

In EA we use true locations of points vs. their mean locations.  To get rid of Mean Black Moon in your charts on astro.com, just enter the 1181, h13, and h58, and do not choose "Lilith" in the list.  Then you will have the three that are used in EA.

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 26, 2013, 06:48 PM
Thanks, Jason.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 27, 2013, 06:05 PM
"Lilith is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto."

Can you explain how this works or clarify this in whatever way you can? How do we use Lilith as a bridge from the actions of Mars as it relates to incorporating the soul intentions of Pluto?

Are there bridges between Venus/Neptune or Mercury/Uranus?

Thanks,
Sunyata



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Mar 27, 2013, 09:55 PM
Wow, so glad to have complete clarification of the different Lilith's.  I have read about it many times, without gaining real understanding.

Thank you Sunyata for picking up where we left off and Linda for clearly posting how EA uses Lilith.

Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Mar 28, 2013, 08:09 PM
"Lilith is the octave transformer for Mars and Pluto! It serves as a bridge between the lower octave of Mars and the higher octave of Pluto."

Can you explain how this works or clarify this in whatever way you can? How do we use Lilith as a bridge from the actions of Mars as it relates to incorporating the soul intentions of Pluto?

Are there bridges between Venus/Neptune or Mercury/Uranus?

Thanks,
Sunyata


Hi Sunyata and Wendy,


The Asteroids act as octave transformers because they dwell BETWEEN the inner-conscious-rational-leftbrain-personal planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars) and the outer transpersonal-unconscious-rightbrain-spiritual planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto), and therefore are seen as "transformers in the archetypal circuitry" by raising lower octave vibrations to a higher octave.  

The role of the Asteroids are to re-awaken the FEMININE energy so that individuals and thus the collective become more whole.  The incorporation of the conscious with the depths of the unconscious requires FEMININE perception, focus, insight, awareness, sensitivity, intuition, imagination, therefore the Asteroids form this necessary "bridge."

A shift is occurring between the thinking-rational processes and becoming more in tune with the emotions.  Individuals cannot give to the Collective a wholeness that they do not yet possess, therefore the Feminine needs to be fostered and nurtured in the evolution of consciousness as we come out of patriarchal conditioning to rectify the imbalance between masculine and feminine.


LOWER OCTAVE

Mercury


Venus


Mars
OCTAVE TRANSFORMER


Pallas (feminine creative energy birthing new ideas)

Juno (sacred marriage, emotional truth)

Lilith (wisdom of the natural world, natural expression)
HIGHER OCTAVE

Uranus


Neptune


Pluto
PERSONAL DESIRE TO ACT FOR THE COLLECTIVE INTEREST

Mercurial mind inspired and transformed by Uranian illuminations.
 
Venus values and feelings raised by Neptunian compassion.

Mars personal desires acting for Plutonian individual/collective evolution.



Love,

Linda





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Mar 29, 2013, 10:24 AM
Hi Linda, Sunyata and Wendy,

Linda beautiful lay out of the octave transformers..and wonderful explanation.

***

I wanted to offer something here to with respect to Lilith. We know that there are different planets that rule the chakras, but these Asteroid Goddesses can also be seen ruling each chakra.

Original Lilith rules the ROOT chakra as she is the undistorted natural feminine, the unconditioned wild woman, independent, totally aligned with natural law, full unto herself. She is your primal feminine ROOT, and the Original Lilith placement for a woman reflects HOW YOU WERE DESIGNED BY GOD/DESS. In a man's chart the Original Lilith placement would reflect a man's ideal image of a woman or how he most naturally actualizes the feminine within.

The Resolution Lilith, otherwise known as the Black Moon (not to be confused with the Dark Moon which is where we have all gotten off course via our distortions), the Black Moon symbolized by the Crescent Moon and cross below and most often seen in Solar Fire, symbolizes the way we get back to our ORIGINAL ROOT, hence the word Resolution. The Resolution Lilith lights the way back to our true feminine self, she shows you HOW to get back home to your unwavering center.

Working with this Lilith trinity is a powerful exercise when you weave it into the Pluto paradigm, especially considering that Lilith is the octave transformer between Pluto and Mars. Once any Soul uncovers and remembers HOW they were originally design, the Mars piece can be adjusted, as in choices made, that can now facilitate evolution. It works like a tuning fork, when any Soul is in harmony with their pure self, the weight of whatever has been collected will start flying off.

Hope this helps,
Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Mar 29, 2013, 01:06 PM
Wonderful information. Thanks so much Linda and Kristin.

Sunyata


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Wendy on Mar 29, 2013, 01:32 PM
Hi Linda and Kristin,

Thanks so much for posting this information! I'm excited to finally memorize the different Lilith's.  They are very prominent in my chart, so very glad to harness their influence in my soul and evolutionary pattern.

Linda can you change the yellow color to something darker?  I'm having a hard time reading it.  Also Kristin, is Original Lilith #1181?

Thank you and Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Linda on Mar 29, 2013, 08:01 PM
ASTRO.COM


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith):  1181 - Appears as 'Lilit'


Dark Moon Lilith:  h58, 'Waldermath' - Appears as 'Walde'


"True" Black Moon Lilith (Resolution Lilith): h13 - Appears as OSC.L (EA uses this one)


"Mean" Black Moon Lilith:  'Lilith' under Additional Objects - Appears as white crescent on a cross    




SOLAR FIRE GOLD:


Asteroid Lilith (Original Lilith) - Chart Options > Extra Ring Points > Asteroid.pte > Edit > Choose Lilith 1181 from Available Points > Add > Save > Select > Appears as Lilith


Dark Moon Lilith (Waltemath) - Chart Options > Extra Ring Points > Jaynehyp.pte > Edit > Choose Dark Moon W'mat2 DkM from Available Points > Add > Save > Select > Appears as DkM


Black Moon Lilith (Resolution Lilith) - Preferences > Edit Settings > Select "True Apogee" > Appears as black moon above a cross  




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on May 10, 2013, 12:06 AM
Regarding the Eclipse of May 10th that falls at 19'31" Taurus, it will be opposing the asteroid Psyche which is at 19'09" rx in Scorpio. I dont know if anyone uses Psyche and Eros (Cupid) in their chart analysis but I found it to be an amazing myth to read .... if anyone has worked with Psyche and wants to elaborate on its meaning that would be great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupid_and_Psyche

"In the Gnostic text On the Origin of the World, the first rose is created from the blood of Psyche when she loses her virginity to Cupid"
-wikipedia


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on May 10, 2013, 02:18 AM
Hi Sunyata,

I checked out the Wikipedia article, but it's the end of the week and I didn't have the stamina to digest it all wholesale. If someone knows about Psyche maybe they could post a brief description...?

Anyway it'll be interesting to observe... Psyche is exactly conjunct SN Mars and close conj to NN Moon (in Scorpio) opposite the Eclipse conj Pallas, Mercury and SN Moon, and Mars (all in Taurus). So not a clear isolated manifestation of it, but it's part of the mix in the Eclipse event.  

blessings Upasika


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on May 10, 2013, 09:10 AM
Hi Upasika and Sunyata,

Demetra George spoke on the Sacred Marriage at our last EA conference and included discussions on Psyche, Vesta and Juno . I highly recommend whoever is interested in these asteroids download her talk. It is for sale on the site here.

***

Psyche = greek meaning of the word SOUL.

In the myth this represents the search for the soul mate union, under the auspices of divine union/energy.

Psyche was the most beautiful mortal, people would flock to her. This made Venus jealous so she sends her son Eros with his bow and arrow to prick her while she is sleeping and cast a spell so that she will fall in love with a monster. Instead he is SO captivated by her beauty, he pricks himself and falls in love with her. In their heavenly castle he comes to her at night. Psyche holds a candle and a dagger in case it is the monster. The situation dissolves because she does not trust him, she doubts him and Psyche is sent back to Earth tattered and in rags, pregnant and alone and looking for Eros. She was then sent to Aphrodite in her desperate attempt to find Eros. She is told in order to be re-united with Eros she was to fulfill a series of tests and trials, each test more impossible than the next, even involving a descent into the underworld -tests that were setting her up to fail. However to everyone's surprise, especially Aphrodite, she succeeds and she is transformed by the Gods into a Goddess and is allowed to marry Eros.

From my observations through synastry it can connect to the Soul mate connection between two people and also that potentially as in the myth that many trials would have to be overcome in order to be together. Via the myth, this is a theme of the pursuit of love against all odds.  It also represents the power of desire/love and when this energy is channeled in such a way, what a Soul can overcome.


In a natal chart, this connects to Souls, depending of course the stage of evolution, with penetrating ability to connect and to understand others with a greater depth, carrying a psychic sense of sorts. For example Jeffrey Green has Psyche in Virgo in the 10th, a SOULWORKER for the sick, he used his psychic lens to help others heal and evolve, those that did not have the capacity to see these things for themselves. He helped the emotionally, psychologically and physically sick, Virgo, via SOUL counseling. It can represent someone who is deeply involved in Soul work of any kind.

If this Psyche is conjunct Venus in someone's chart, If following the myth this would be someone where finding true love and the one true soul mate can be in high focus. If the Psyche/Venus conjunction is making supportive aspects perhaps that soul mate is found. Also I could see this being a symbol for doing deep Soul work together in the world.

As it relates to the transit of Psyche during the New Moon Eclipse, this would certainly reflect pushing the Soul limits for growth, beyond the well of limitation. The opposition represents an opportunity to throw off something from the past that is getting in the way of evolution. Also it could bring those soul mate connections and the growth of the connection into tight focus, to confront-Scorpio and to eliminate all things that are delaying evolution for the couple if that is in question.

Each individual signature is different of course but in general Psyche is about the SOUL and what may be necessary to endure, as witnessed in the myth, in order to fulfill the desires and evolutionary intentions of the Soul.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on May 10, 2013, 08:06 PM
Thank you Kristin, very helpful.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on May 11, 2013, 08:40 AM
Hi Upasika,

Also I meant to share, I do not know your chart, so do not know what house this occurs in for you, but obviously with Psyche on your North Node in Scorpio, Ea is an ideal path forward for you, a Soul intended path forward, a future also as a Soul (Psyche) Worker. Obviously this is not a new path for you as this conjuncts your South Node of Mars so you are bringing many desires forward along these lines, to continue what has been initiated in other times. I too have Psyche conjunct my North Node but it is in Gemini in the 11th, house of astrology. Like all the asteroids, they work well to validate what can already be seen in the chart.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on May 11, 2013, 01:13 PM
Hey Kristin and Upasika,

Thank you Kristin for the interpretation and information. My Psyche is in Gemini 5' as well in the 9th opposing a stellium in the 3rd and exactly square Eros in Pisces 5' in the 6th which is conjunct Pallas.... Transiting Neptune is now on that Eros.... long story, I used to paint then stopped ....started again....( this actually coincided with the North Node transiting over my stelluim...so 18 years in between) and an entirely new painting style has emerged for me in the past 6 months and as I was laying down to fall asleep one night, an incredibly clear image of a tree nymph appeared in my head.... i drew a quick sketch and painted it shortly after.... another painting I am working on is of a nymph bathing in a spring.... In my mind are all sorts of ideas for stylistic paintings of nymphs and goddesses. As I sit in nature which I have been able to do recently more than at any other period in my life and hear the words "the kingdom of heaven is within you and all around you" (Gospel of Thomas)  as I sit in front of a river or surrounded by the magnificence of the forest  and watch nature interact with its self ...... ive had some profound experiences is all I can say... I have been fascinated with ancient greek religion and especially the idea of spirits living in nature...dryads, naiads etc.... personified via nymphs and feminine spirits...that nature is alive......that it will communicate with you ...

Anyway I know this isn't the place to share my life story but thank you for listening and thank you for all the work everyone is doing here with EA.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on May 11, 2013, 06:24 PM
Hi Kristin,

Thanks for sharing. But I think you misunderstood my post ... I was speaking of the mundane situation regarding Psyche at the moment of the eclipse. Like both Sunyata and you I also have Psyche in Gemini(!) but for me it's in the 2nd. But all you have shared is very interesting anyway, and (along with Sunyata) it's now got me going with Psyche — another asteroid on board, slowly getting to know more of them bit by bit.

Your painting sounds very creative and healing Sunyata...

blessings Upasika


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on May 12, 2013, 10:39 AM
Hi Upasika and Sunyata,

My apologies I thought that was your own signature. Yes another asteroid on board, it sure continues to add more layers of understanding, especially when the spirit of these asteroids can be reflected so vividly in our lives.

***

Thanks for sharing your personal experience Sunyata..so very inspiring..what a sweet evolution and unfolding, it sounds like a true return of your artistic nature..in nature..there is a vast universe in us all..'the kingdom of heaven is within you'...indeed..

Peace,
kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Sunyata on Jul 31, 2015, 11:08 PM
I was reading through the old message boards and saw this about Psyche

Psyche

(Q): In synastry, when the natal asteroid Psyche of two individuals conjuncts each other’s moon, could this indicate some soul affinity like same soul, or some sort of ongoing soul relationship simply suggesting a deeply intuitive and compassionate understanding of one another’s soul composition, perhaps due to travelling many harrowing journeys together in the past to the underworld of life and bake again, like Psyche did because of her love for Eros? That the deep loyalty and commitment born of this abiding love of one Soul to another will always sustain in the end, no matter what? And through the process, through intense desire scenarios played out through one another, supports one another with their evolutionary process?

(A): It does not necessarily mean that they are the same soul, although it could. Yes, to the rest of it. A lot depends on the sign of the psych/moon, and house, aspects to it, but in general, the answer is yes. There is a nice Italian word for it: simpatico.


I was hoping someone could explain this exact situation except for the natal Psyche of two individuals being opposed to each others moons rather than conjunct.

Thanks,
Sunyata


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 14, 2018, 10:50 AM


***

I wanted to offer something here to with respect to Lilith. We know that there are different planets that rule the chakras, but these Asteroid Goddesses can also be seen ruling each chakra.

Original Lilith rules the ROOT chakra as she is the undistorted natural feminine, the unconditioned wild woman, independent, totally aligned with natural law, full unto herself. She is your primal feminine ROOT, and the Original Lilith placement for a woman reflects HOW YOU WERE DESIGNED BY GOD/DESS. In a man's chart the Original Lilith placement would reflect a man's ideal image of a woman or how he most naturally actualizes the feminine within.

The Resolution Lilith, otherwise known as the Black Moon (not to be confused with the Dark Moon which is where we have all gotten off course via our distortions), the Black Moon symbolized by the Crescent Moon and cross below and most often seen in Solar Fire, symbolizes the way we get back to our ORIGINAL ROOT, hence the word Resolution. The Resolution Lilith lights the way back to our true feminine self, she shows you HOW to get back home to your unwavering center.

Working with this Lilith trinity is a powerful exercise when you weave it into the Pluto paradigm, especially considering that Lilith is the octave transformer between Pluto and Mars. Once any Soul uncovers and remembers HOW they were originally design, the Mars piece can be adjusted, as in choices made, that can now facilitate evolution. It works like a tuning fork, when any Soul is in harmony with their pure self, the weight of whatever has been collected will start flying off.

Hope this helps,
Peace,
Kristin


Hi Kristin, Rad,

Kristin, thank you so much for this precious information. I have been searching for more information on the original lilith/asteroid 1181 and what you wrote is really valuable.
I have some questions regarding chakra/asteroid Goddesses correlation and how to work with the original lilith and resolution lilith (h13).

About the chakras, from what you wrote in this thread, i find, if i am correct:

Lilith - Root Chakra
Amazone - 3rd Chakra
Pallas Athena - Crown Chakra 

Could you provide more information on the remaining Goddesses/Chakras? This is really interesting and i never heard/read about it. Would love to know more if you or Rad can share, also about how do you see women can actively work from their own nature root developing the original chakra signature as made by God/dess, specially at this collective evolutionary juncture.
(one thing i notice is, lilith asteroid in Libra is going to be in tight square to the transiting nodal axis in first months of 2019).

You also talk about how the resolution Lilith works as way to get back to original Root.
Can we look at the resolution/black moon lilith as a facilitator, kind of like the same way a nodal ruler is to the node/Pluto, in this case, to the original Lilith? The way the original Lilith is reached/actualised is seen through the development of the house/sign/aspects of black moon?

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 15, 2018, 11:13 AM
Hi Helena,

My studies have morphed a bit with respect to understanding Lilith so I will share how they have evolved and why.

I only use Asteroid Lilith now in chart interpretations.

There are three known Liliths:

The Asteroid Lilith, The Dark Moon Lilith, and the Black Moon Lilith, which has made working with this archetype confusing over time. However, a trinity of three different symbols to chart out the progression of the feminine journey throughout time is not necessary for The Trinity can be seen in any one signature – The Original, Distorted, as well as Resolution.

The Asteroid Lilith known as the Original Lilith, is an actual physical body orbiting in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, and whose transit is a 4-5 year cycle.

The other two points that have been studied and written about, most commonly the Black Moon Lilith and the less understood Dark Moon Lilith. The Dark Moon is said to be the Earth's second Moon by those who have claimed to see it over the last four centuries; and Black Moon Lilith, is an abstract, geometrical point in space, where by a true and mean Node exists. These points can vary to up to twenty degrees which can change one's Black Moon Lilith by house and sign.

After many years of research and working with all three of these symbols, I returned to the original teachings of JWG, looking solely at the Asteroid Lilith herself, as she is the only actual physical body. According to JWG, there is no basis in physical reality of the other two points, as they are mere projections in space, so to minimize confusion, the intent is to 'deal with what's real'.

It is also taught in EA that the trinity can be seen within any one symbol. In an attempt to simplify and offer clarity, I observe Original Lilith in her triple form. All three of these manifestations can be reflected in one signature, just as every archetype has a light and a shadow, your original and pure design is also subjected to a swing of extremity, with its purest vibration in place or its diluted distortion, as well as the way to resolution.

In terms of the Goddess Asteroids that rule the chakras:

1 Root               Asteroid Lilith
2 Sacral             Vesta/ Sacred Sexuality
3 Solar Plexus    Amazon/ Warrior
4 Heart              Tara / Goddess of Compassion

Tara states she will continue to come back to Earth until all Souls are enlightened. There are Souls who are also really drawn to MARY for the Heart, so I have worked with both.

5 Throat            Pallas Athene/ The Messenger
6 Ajna               Sun/Moon - Integration of masculine and feminine
7 Crown             Neptune

BY the time you reach the crown, you are out of body, one with God/GODDESS


A note about Pallas Athene -

Pallas Athene, known as the MESSENGER, rules the throat chakra, for she is the Goddess of Wisdom and Justice. Demetra George considers her the most important Goddess for modern women. As the patriarchy kicked in, all of our Greek Goddesses were demoted and demeaned, respectable women were locked behind the walls of their own home. Pallas Athene represents a woman who has the FREEDOM to walk in the world as an equal to a man.

She had to pay a dear price for this privilege, a denial of her femininity and denied of having children, she is the Virgin Goddess. The myths had her deny she ever had a mother at all. She had to repudiate the feminine in order to enter the masculine world. (This will well be reflected in a woman's chart who works in a corporate world and walks around wearing men's suits.) She is strong, cool, detached, powerful and a VIRGIN (remember the movie the Virgin Queen with Cate Blanchett about Queen Elizabeth)

She is so smart, men have to acknowledge her intelligence. Notice the image I attached with all the men at her feet.

In the myths, she has the power to awaken kundalini. The procreative urge of sexual energy becomes polarized to release the mental creative impulse. Instead of moving through the genital organs, the energy is moved up through the spinal canal and out through the top of the head, giving birth to creative, artistic expression.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Enjoy diving in..

Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 16, 2018, 03:11 AM
Hi Kristin,

First, thank you so much for taking the time to answer and share the way that you did. It's really a fascinating topic for me and i will dive in  :) as you say and see what comes up.
The chakra image that you posted is one of the most beautiful and inspiring i have ever seen..

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Nov 16, 2018, 07:07 AM
Kristin,

That was so well explained.  I want to compliment you on your prowess.  Thank you, this is so useful.

🙏

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: dollydaydream on Nov 16, 2018, 08:08 AM
Kristin, thanks for this fresh way of understanding Lilith.  DDD


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 16, 2018, 09:03 AM
Helena and all,

You wrote:

 "one thing i notice is, lilith asteroid in Libra is going to be in tight square to the transiting nodal axis in first months of 2019."

We look to REPEATING THEMES to uncover trends for what the Soul is experiencing personally as well as collectively. With the transiting nodes now in Cancer and Capricorn, even in the political sphere in the US they are calling this the year of the woman, due to so many women are dethroning men and winning political seats.

Cancer and Capricorn connects to gender, and with transiting Lilith in Libra squaring the Nodes, this directly reflects the need to establish more gender equality and balance.

The first two weeks of Feb 2019, Mars in Aries will be opposing Lilith in Libra while together they will square the Nodes in Cancer and Capricorn. This is sure to bring these gender themes surrounding control and dominance (and women fighting back) to the forefront, among other things.

***

What I would encourage you all to do in order to work to recover more of your own feminine strength and root, is to locate Asteroid Lilith (1181) and through house, sign and aspects you will be able to see your root feminine nature, the distortions that have occurred to due patriarchal influences as well as a way back to you, all through one symbol.

This would also apply to a man in terms of his own experience with the feminine along his Soul's journey, Asteroid Lilith representing his ideal image of a woman, how that image became distorted as well as how the feminine energies are expressed within himself.

Peace,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 16, 2018, 09:51 AM
One more VITAL point I missed in my earlier post.

Another reason to only use Asteroid Lilith in EA versus the other two points, is that LILITH has NODES. Your natal Lilith has Nodes.

Today            transiting      NN             SN

16 Nov 2018  |  6 libra  7      14 sa 28   10 cn 23 |


I will follow up with more on the Nodes of Lilith when I am able.

~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 16, 2018, 10:59 AM
I am attaching a higher resolution Goddess Chakra image that an EA friend drew.
~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 19, 2018, 10:47 AM
Hi All,
 
I am following up with some more content on Lilith as well as a simple understanding of the Nodes of Lilith.

ORIGINAL LILITH

We all have imprinted within us the original, undistorted female image, which is defined by the natal placement of Asteroid Lilith by house, sign and aspects, This correlates in the current life to what our underlying ideal image is of a woman, where we feel free to express our most uninhibited, natural, wild self.
 
When you are actualizing your natural design, you are integrated from your root, your Soul's center of gravity. When you move from this center, you feel in perfect harmony with yourself. You are naturally tapping into the central source of your personal feminine power.
 
It is taught in EA that the trinity can be seen within any one symbol: past, present, and the future. Apply this natural principle to Lilith we can correlate this with the Original, Distorted as well as the Resolution reflected in any one signature. One can observe how these three expressions of Lilith play out when reflecting upon the three layers at the root chakra. Along with the three natural planetary rulerships of the root chakra, Pluto, Uranus and Saturn, in EA, we have given Lilith rulership of the root chakra in terms of the original female design: it's archetype.  She is the root of the woman, the trunk of the female tree and of the feminine nature where all the branches emanate.
 
The Original, Distorted and Resolution Lilith is also reflected within the planets that rule the three layers of the root: Pluto, your pure original archetype of Lilith, Saturn, the distorted or repressed feminine, and Uranus representing the woman’s liberation from all that has limited full and natural expression of the original archetype of the feminine.  It it that Uranian component that simply rebels and revolts against the majority, in order to promote necessary change as well as serving to awaken the consciousness of the herd state via her vibration and actualization of the natural feminine within her.

Lilith Has Nodes
 
The Nodes of the Asteroid Lilith symbolize how this Lilith has been expressed in the past, including its run ins with the repression of the patriarchy and the intention for this expression moving forward. The South Node for example correlates to the history (herstory) of how the power of the feminine was expressed or likely repressed, along with the consequences of what came about linked with being a woman in the world. It connects to the memories of the past that live in the cells of your being that have influenced your inner orientation to the current life being lived.
 
The North Node of Lilith connects to the evolutionary progression of the power of the feminine and the intentions set out by your Soul to expand upon, to deepen and develop this natural feminine impulse. The natal Lilith not only symbolizes a woman's original female design, within this signature represents how the dynamic tension of the past and the future is pulling on the Soul in every moment.
 
 
Let's take this simple example:

Asteroid Lilith in Aries/1st House


Original

 
She storms out of the womb with her feet on fire, ready to take on the world. She works fast and feeds off of the speed of the desires that burn deep within her. She is passionately charged and as with all fire signs, she comes into this life with a special sense of destiny, in many cases to raise the bar for women, and to balance the scales of gender, seen in the cardinal axis that she shares with Cancer, Capricorn and Libra. She is a natural leader, born with all the qualities to motivate and inspire others where they naturally want to follow her. At times they may not even know why they are following her, but they feed off of her brave tenacity and on the heels and the heat of her pursuits.
 
In her most natural form, she is a warrior who needs full freedom to express what is emanating from her root, without limitation or restriction, a woman who needs to be in charge of her freedom, to follow her instinct wherever it leads. Being a cardinal sign, she has the fiery spirit of initiation and the courage to take just about anything on. She has a fierce edge to her nature; nothing can stop her once she is up and running. But because the cardinal reflects something new, the energy is inevitably coupled with an insecurity of not knowing where it will lead. In addition, an inherent responsibility exists within this cardinal axis, each cardinal sign shouldering the burden of whatever has been set in motion, in this case with Aries square to Capricorn. She will be the first one out of the tent when there is danger lurking.
 
Aries can have blind spots as they are moving so fast on the freeway of life. They may miss what is going on at the back wings of their flight if their full focus is always fast and forward, seen in the square to Capricorn.
 
The relationships she will attract will have a strong sense of adventure and she must feel that they are always moving forward in life, ever growing and experiencing all the world has to offer. She will also wish to be challenged to be all she can be and the energy of the other must know what she is made of so he or she can support and keep up with this kind of movement.
 
Distorted

Flight or fight. If someone tries to control or limit her, she'll be gone. If she is forced to deny her nature and repress her instinct, the energy can turn into anger and rage, along with resentment that builds due to the square to Capricorn, especially anger at the very culture or system that limits her. When her buttons get pushed, she can be known to turn and burn in relationships. She will attract partners who meet some of her needs, not all of her needs in order to guarantee an exit point.
 
With Mars ruling Aries and the lower octave of Pluto, the distorted form of Aries in this context could translate into the woman with a dagger in her boot, for she has so much inner rage at all that went wrong, most often the rage directed at the patriarchal male in general, that she ends of going after her closest target.


Resolution


Once the wrapping of Saturn linked with conditioning is removed, she will need to be in charge of her freedom, she will need to follow what darts up from the deep, and not question its origin, but to trust what is needed for her Soul's next steps in all the ways that Aries is naturally expressed. She will will lead in overt or quieter ways but she will lead nevertheless, even if she didn't ask for that role. At the very least, she will lead by example.
 
SOUTH NODE of Lilith in the 3rd House/Gemini
 
In the past leading up to the current life, she will have had a highly restless nature. Considering the patriarchy has been in place for thousands of years, she would have been running and hiding from her nature seen with the natural square to Pisces. She may also have had lives where she ran away from her own family or culture of origin in search of her natural tribe. Always running, always searching, yet never finding.
 
NORTH NODE of Lilith in the 9th House/Sagittarius

Her Soul is in search of recovering the whole versus all the working parts and will come to depend on her intuitive knowing of who she is and follow that arrow of honesty. She will progressively fall into step with what she knows to be true and her body will be her guide for she will learn again that “the body does not lie.”

This would be a life where she funnels all of the experiences and information gleaned from the past and channels them into a work of truths to live by. She will remember that there is nothing more powerful than being in step with your own natural rhythm, and as she becomes aligned within herself, she will teach others to do the same.

Because of her travels, should would have a natural teaching capacity and be ability to help others find their own way back home to their nature. She will have a gypsy or bohemian spirit and because she is inspired by experiencing the full spectrum of the whole, she will be attracted to all walks of life from all cultures around the world. She will not only be drawn to explore the vast reaches of who she, she will be led to reach and teach not just locally but globally.

Ultimately, she will live by example and with the mantra, Truth at all costs, for she knows there is no going back, nor would she ever want to. The horizon is all she sees!

***

Let me know if anyone would like to go deeper and work on a Lilith thread.

Peace & Evolution,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 20, 2018, 06:51 AM
Hi Kristin and All,

a Lilith thread would be much appreciated, so you can count me in. Hope it can go forward.
The energy is strongly pointing that way for all women and personally that would also be very synchronistic as i am going through strong "root" transits - transiting SN about to be exact conjunct natal lilith and trine SN lilith, with natal SN lilith conjunct jupiter, and natal lilith conjunct moon that are then square moon's nodes, so talking about recovery time for sure.

In the spirit of your previous posts, and given that pallas is currently conjunct Lilith, i ended up going back to Demetra George and particularly enjoyed her chapter on the Soul Work of Pallas Athena, i quote:

"The Soul work for the Pallas Athene woman is to recover her lost feminine origins; "to see her not as a goddess who has renounced her femininity, but as one who teaches us to recognise courage and vulnerability, creativity and receptivity, as equal feminine qualities".

This so fits the present energy of powerful women like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Her natal lilith is conjunct NN lilith at 1/7 Sag.! This is a women who ruined a pair of shoes campaigning, so she did it with her own feet on the ground and, looking from the outside, very much rooted in herself, her own creativity, her own intelligence, not neglecting her beauty and femininity and not afraid to look vulnerable just because she was facing an immense job. And that was her strength, such an example!

In my view, after dwelling on it, i would say this slow recovery work is first, and pretty much in essence, a call for women to stop fixing what is not wrong in themselves and put on the shoes for their own sake. And since undistorted female energy is naturally giving, that will be very positively manifested outside, in the right away and atmosphere. It think this is a pretty crucial step. To locate any inner (or outer) "something is wrong with me" when it isn't, because that would be exactly locating that saturnian conditioning and stepping away, detaching. What i think it then starts to happen naturally has a consequence of that is an opportunity to tap in an immense creative place within themselves that is incorruptible, maybe lilith herself.
Although, i am drawn to feel every woman's root will tend to harmonize/integrate in a very personal/unique way all of the Goddesses/chakras in the essence of this same root, will you say so?
Also Kristin, i wonder where do you see ceres and juno fit, or don't fit at all, with Lilith and the original female root? Is it because they were the mother and the wife, so implicating the existence of an external other, not exclusively the process of integrating inner female/male within the self?

Thank you as always for your time and wisdom,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Nov 20, 2018, 07:19 AM
Hi Kristin,

Thanks for taking the time to share and post your excellent examples of the original Lilath, and it's Nodal Axis. I truly hope that the proposed thread you asked others about can truly happen because it can be so helpful for both men and women to understand exactly what the original feminine archetypes are, and how to unlock those original soul fingerprints.

And thanks too to Helena for her thoughts about this, and the relevant questions she is asking.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Bhaskara on Nov 20, 2018, 08:02 AM
Hi Everyone,

I would like to participate in this thread...

I would also at some point when I’m ready  like to share my own Lilith story and how I started to heal myself from deep patriarchal distortion and the resulting victimization I have felt in this life with the supporting EA behind the story. 

Thank you,
Heather


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 20, 2018, 11:52 AM
Hi Helena,

This is an ideal time to be diving in and working on your Lilith root. It is no coincidence that when you posted on Pallas and Lilith, these two Goddess Asteroids were conjunct.

Many years ago, when I was developing material for a workshop on the 7 natural roots of women, Evolution of the Goddess, I consulted with JWG and Demetra and they both felt that we are limited with using Greek mythology as symbols of the natural roots of women due to the patriarchal stories that pervade these myths.

I was in search for the Goddess ruler of the HEART chakra. I explored many different asteroids here, including Juno. But if you know the story of Juno, the asteroid for devotion and union, she was married to Jupiter who would tie her to a bed post while he was out gallivanting with other women. This obviously speaks directly to the submissive woman and the furthest thing from an equal.

Lilith was considered to be Adam's first consort, pre-Eve, but she refused to be submissive to a man, refused to lie beneath him in any way. So she rebelled and flew into the night in a rage never to return. She represents this original feminine root, wild, alluring and yes, even rebellious if anyone tries to get in her natural way or tries to mess with her need for equality. In her original nature, one thing she would never do is apologize for how she was created. That is what I call a natural woman!
 
So, I agree, for women to start by fixing what is not wrong in themselves.
This is seen in the Virgo/Pisces axis and the Garden of Eden Myth.

After Lilith's fllee, Eve is created from the rib of Adam, a patriarchal creation. She is made to feel guilty because of Adam's choice to eat the forbidden fruit. Adam says, "If you weren't so desirable, I wouldn't have sinned." Women have been made to feel responsible for man's spiritual downfall and feel they must be punished.

Adam feels guilty for eating the forbidden fruit and blames Eve for her erotic pull and this guilt turns into anger. The Sado/Masochistic loop lives on and will continue until the conditioned guilt is expunged and women allow themselves to celebrate the power of what patriarchal men have felt so threatened by and in so many cases destroyed.


****

Lilith has many faces, so in working on Lilith and the Nodes to uncover the root feminine nature of the Soul in question, you are free to weave in other asteroids as they become prominent, such as Ceres or Pallas stories, and speak to their influence.

Peace,
Kristin


P.S.

Awesome about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Lilith, can we get a time on her?
See attached..one of my favorite images of Obama when he was running.
He literally wore out the bottom of his shoes as well.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 20, 2018, 12:06 PM
Hi Heather,

Great...and welcome.

I would like to focus on developing the archetypes first and using examples as you do so as in the houses, signs and aspects before using personal examples.

However, at some point it may be fruitful for those participating in this thread to share a personal experience with the intent to encourage others along their way.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Bhaskara on Nov 21, 2018, 07:02 AM
Hi Everyone,

Ok thank you Kristin for teaching us all here...

Heather


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Nov 21, 2018, 06:06 PM
This is very awesome, Kristin! Your insights & this idea for a new thread

It's so funny because the other day after I read what you had posted...I needed to really digest & internalize it...
&...with much going on within my life....turns out Lillith is just past an exact return in my chart
Also balsamic conjunction with mercury, give a degree...then will be with Pluto, too
and...
These three oppose Pallas Athene...

Very much incredible timing!
I sure hope that you do this new thread.....
Thanks!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 22, 2018, 03:37 AM
Hi Kristin, Rad, Heather and All,

Kristin, is always such an immense moment of clarity to read your words. Thank you, really.
This that you wrote, "one thing she would never do is apologize for how she was created. That is what I call a natural woman!", is very important to remember because i think most women that have not abandon the desire to be true to themselves have it at their core but in a very exhausted soul.
And yes, you are wright of course, seeing it as it is there certainly is no coincidence to Pallas, as my natal pallas is conjunct saturn (ruling that lilith), both retrograde in leo, so again more to tap in, as in every woman and every soul's story we have this Goddesses walking along with us no matter what... one just got love astrology as a supreme teacher on natural law :-)
Looking forward to continue to learn from all you have been teaching us.

It is really funny the Obama picture you posted! I don't have the birth time for Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, just the birth date, October 13 1989.

Rad, also thank you very much for your words. I completely agree with you about this being important for women as much as for men. I think that if all souls will have this male/female imprint throughout their evolution, raising consciousness is as much as recovering divinity for both male and female archetypes, instead of a polarised discourse. Even though female souls are the ones that most seem to feel this emergency of course, i hope this new neptune in capricorn generation will start to blend it in, as they are already starting to do form what i see.

Heather, so nice to hear from you! Nerissa, great to hear from you too. :-)

Best to All,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Nov 22, 2018, 09:53 AM
If I'm not mistaken: it's interesting to note that, the south node of lillith is hanging out with Pluto's north node - lillith's past being crucial to pluto's future (to put in simple generic terms) - not surprisingly being in Cancer, the moon, the feminine
Also that the range of Lillith's north node, in Sag.,  is conjunct a certain generations Neptune!
It is clearly time to recover the spiritual, natural root and nature of this archetype



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 22, 2018, 11:48 AM
Welcome Nerissa and Hello again Helena and Heather,

It is wonderful to feel the feminine charge.

Yes, Nerissa, It is crucial for Pluto's future, for women to recover their wholeness and to access a raw strength to be who they are no matter what. Is is essential now to return this planet to a semblance of balance. Remembering also that the North Nodes of Pluto, Saturn and Jupiter are all in CANCER.  

This thread is not just for women  however, men are welcome as well. We will also be discussing Lilith and how she represent a man's IDEAL image of a woman, as well as how the distortions have impacted his journey.

Let me know if anyone else is interested in participating.

We will start simple on Sunday.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 24, 2018, 04:44 AM
Hi Kristin and All,

Just wish to leave a link to a very interesting author whose work lies exploring mythology and archetypal symbolism, always with a keen insight. I found this article by chance in the sequence browsing my old bookmarks and another article by this author, and is quite synchronistic of our present discussion from the point of view of recovering the masculine, with a refreshing view on the transiting nodes with a healing perspective.
For anyone interested here it is the link

https://symbolreader.net/2018/07/27/transcending-toxic-masculinity/

All the Best,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: dollydaydream on Nov 24, 2018, 07:58 AM
Hi Kristin and all, I will be following along on the MB.  This is a particularly busy time for me so I don't know how much time I can spend on contributing to the subject but I will do my best.  Thank you for the discussion on this important asteroid. Love to all.  DDD


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 25, 2018, 12:13 PM
Hello Helena, Heather, and Nerissa, (and I invite anyone else who would like to jump in)

We will start simple by expanding upon the Asteroid Lilith in Aries or in the 1st House archetype, looking at her nature ~ Original, Distorted and Resolution.

Please work to develop this trinity in your own words and understanding of this archetype.

I am re-posting what I wrote and I am adding a bit on her sexuality but that can be developed as well.


LILITH in ARIES/1st House

 
She storms out of the womb with her feet on fire, ready to take on the world. She works fast and feeds off of the speed of the desires that burn deep within her. She is passionately charged and as with all fire signs, she comes into this life with a special sense of destiny, in many cases to raise the bar for women, and to balance the scales of gender, seen in the cardinal axis that she shares with Cancer, Capricorn and Libra. She is a natural leader, born with all the qualities to motivate and inspire others where they naturally want to follow her. At times they may not even know why they are following her, but they feed off of her brave tenacity and on the heels and the heat of her pursuits.
 
In her most natural form, she is a warrior who needs full freedom to express what is emanating from her root, without limitation or restriction, a woman who needs to be in charge of her freedom, to follow her instinct wherever it leads. Being a cardinal sign, she has the fiery spirit of initiation and the courage to take just about anything on. She has a fierce edge to her nature; nothing can stop her once she is up and running. But because the cardinal reflects something new, the energy is inevitably coupled with an insecurity of not knowing where it will lead. In addition, an inherent responsibility exists within this cardinal axis, each cardinal sign shouldering the burden of whatever has been set in motion, in this case with Aries square to Capricorn. She will be the first one out of the tent when there is danger lurking.
 
Aries can have blind spots as they are moving so fast on the freeway of life. They may miss what is going on at the back wings of their flight if their full focus is always fast and forward, seen in the square to Capricorn.
 
The relationships she will attract will have a strong sense of adventure and she must feel that they are always moving forward in life, ever growing and experiencing all the world has to offer. She will also wish to be challenged to be all she can be and the energy of the other must know what she is made of so he or she can support and keep up with this kind of movement.
 
Sexual Nature

Her Sexual nature is to be number one, with the desire to initiate gestures of love, attention and affection, and she is most often the one who will initiate the 'ultimate act'. Within this, she is a Soul who prefers being 'on top' (this would also be true for one with Lilith in the 10th or in Capricorn), allowing her to be in a position to direct the rhythm at her will. The Aries archetype alone will enjoy experiencing the feeling of the sexual surge as she comes to know more about who she is in those physical bursts. There does not need to be any kind of attachment or committed relationship in order for her to step into that space with another for it is all about the new, the uninhibited and the freedom to explore places she has never been.

Distorted

Flight or fight. If someone tries to control or limit her, she'll be gone. If she is forced to deny her nature and repress her instinct, the energy can turn into anger and rage, along with resentment that builds due to the square to Capricorn, especially anger at the very culture or system that limits her. When her buttons get pushed, she can be known to turn and burn in relationships. She will attract partners who meet some of her needs, not all of her needs in order to guarantee an exit point.
 
With Mars ruling Aries and the lower octave of Pluto, the distorted form of Aries in this context could translate into the woman with a dagger in her boot, for she has so much inner rage at all that went wrong, most often the rage directed at the patriarchal male in general, that she ends of going after her closest target.


Resolution

Once the wrapping of Saturn linked with conditioning is removed, she will need to be in charge of her freedom, she will need to follow what darts up from the deep, and not question its origin, but to trust what is needed for her Soul's next steps in all the ways that Aries is naturally expressed. She will will lead in overt or quieter ways but she will lead nevertheless, even if she didn't ask for that role. At the very least, she will lead by example


It's time to unravel the repression,

With passion and peace,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Nov 26, 2018, 04:34 PM
Hi Kristen,

I will endeavor to keep up with this thread as I can...but with Uranus back in aries my Uranus/Uranus opposition strikes back ;)

Today, I thought I'd have to say I could not participate due to lack of internet, much less electricity...but: for now, looks like I'll have both

It's hard to add to what you've already posted!
But as I was thinking of relating to the symbols....really occurred to me I'm not sure I have the original archetype fully fleshed out within my mind.

I certainly understand the distorted!....but, the original archetype seems so utterly buried, repressed that it seems that it is so foreign to anything almost remotely what we'd call 'feminine' in many ways that it's hard to even speak of it

It could be I am confusing things.
Lillith, if it is the original feminine - would seem to be, in a way, a symbol of synthesis & wholeness - the opposites united and brought forth....it would not be 'just' feminine...but the totality of male/female.

It's a bit confusing, then, in a way - to me anyway: because female is the 'opposite' of male and yet the primordial feminine births BOTH...

What we assign to either/or male/female in the primordial feminine contains it all.
Maybe I am confusing Lillith with a more greater Goddess archetype...?

So, when I think of Lillith in Aries or 1st house: I think of, in it's natural state, a real merging of the male/female sexual principles and drives....the instinctive desire nature would be intense, but broad ( because of the Mars/masculine qualities of Aries/1st) And the instinctive drive to right action would be aligned with the protective instinct...again the feminine in natural state within the Aries function...

I won't say more for now....thinking I am not seeing the 'original' archetype clearly...?

Thank you!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 27, 2018, 11:14 AM
Hi Nerissa,

YES. Being that Aries is cardinal/yang, and thus naturally masculine, Lilith in Aries/1st house is a Soul who will naturally emanate masculine within the feminine. Lilith in Aries/1st house is part of the cardinal combination where gender assignment exists in Cancer and Capricorn and that need for BALANCE of both is reflected in the Libra archetype. A Soul who is naturally male and female would apply here with respect to the ORIGINAL Lilith in Aries/1st house. In her original form, yes, she is equally masculine and feminine.

Nice addition.

***

You wrote

I certainly understand the distorted!....but, the original archetype seems so utterly buried, repressed that it seems that it is so foreign to anything almost remotely what we'd call 'feminine' in many ways that it's hard to even speak of it


Perhaps you can share more on the distorted and thus the resolution.

Take your time to feel through this progression.


Peace,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 27, 2018, 11:28 AM
Hi Ladies,

I agree with Nerissa in that I wrote a thorough example of the Original Lilith in Aries/1st  (see last post on previous page) but if there is anything you wish to add, please do. There is always more along these lines, especially in each of your own experience of this archetype. I do not want to limit you. ;)

Please work to develop more of the distorted and resolution. How does she make her return?

An extremely distorted manifestation of Lilith in Aries/1st is exemplified in the Swedish film, “The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo”, where the lead character Lisbeth stops at nothing to seek the ultimate blood curdling revenge of her accusers and abusers, “What is hidden in snow, comes forth in the thaw.” In her case, she had to take things into her own hands, she had to access all that was within her not only to experience justice, but to stay alive. Of course this could also be a Lilith In Scorpio/8th.

Let me know if you have any questions,

Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 27, 2018, 12:37 PM
For Some INSPIRATION


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 29, 2018, 10:18 AM
Halo Ladies,

Let me know how you are progressing on your post and what your timeline is for submission. This can be kept to simple themes.

Thanks loads,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 29, 2018, 11:43 AM
Hi Kristin, Heather and Nerissa,

this is indeed passionate work, although a lot to embrace :) but i'm almost finishing i think, so i would be able to post shortly.

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Bhaskara on Nov 29, 2018, 02:19 PM
Hi Everyone,

Lilith in Aries/1st house:


Lilith in Aries comes into the world wanting to be free she wants ultimate freedom she comes into life wanting to ride the wind merge with the wild run with the wolves. She is independent willing to try anything at least once and doesn't need others to go first. She naturally has both genders never seeing any limitation because she was born a female she always does what all the guys do to. This is the kind of girl who rides motorcycles and who raced around in a mustang 5.0 and jumped on snowboards with the boys when she was young.  She scaled the sides of mountains using only the roots and cracks to get to the top and whenever someone told  her she couldn't do something she did it anyway, she doesn't see anything as a limitation, She is bold and brave and a natural leader as well a natural protector of others. 

Lilith Aries Distortion:

The distorted form of Lilith in Aries  comes into life with a lot of unresolved anger and possibly even rage and as Kristin  shared in a very distorted version of Lilith in the movie The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo she comes in wanting justice in the form of revenge. In a  sence Lilith distorted energy leads one into feeling repressed  thwarted held down blocked and  this can be seen through the square between Aries and Capricorn or 1st to the 10th house she can also project this back onto others as a need to control her environment and others. Repressed held down and blocked through society the patriarchy the men in her world or her father or family of birth, through the distortion of Aries  we tend to want to project anger at others or attack others. From my own experience with this energy and from what I understand through my own struggles with  the distorted form of Aries one can come off to others as combative pushy and confrontational and this is especially painful when one does not desire to come off this way to others and truly loves all.  Through  the distortion Lilith comes into life possibly pulling in situations and relations with others where she may experience attacking or being attacked. I personally know this to be true  as I was born to an Aries sun sign father who was abusive to me as well as over half the long term relationships I had with men had sun sign in Aries. I  know how painful the life lessons  are that we pull in with the distorted form of this energy as I have personally struggled with this energy my whole life with others and with in myself, one of those relationships I pulled in was so abusive that I honestly don't know how I made it out alive. To go through life with a distroted Aries archetype is to struggle to understand human existence and what it means to be a social being, Libra. When we are distorted through Aries we may not fit in we dont relate to others well we are kind of like a social outcast of our own making. When Lilith is in Aries in distorted  form I feel her inside me as just kind of wild.  Lilith in Aries distortion is kind of a lonely life because we just dont engage others naturally.

Lilith in Aries Resolution:

Lilith in Aries root archetype and Natural recovery is one of a Natural Leader, she was born to lead the way and to naturally lead the way she will need Libra as her anchor. With Libra as our anchor we come to understand that we are all equal to each other and that no person is more or less important  than the next and through Libra as her anchor Lilith in Aries naturally wants to do what she does for the benefit of others. To be a natural leader of others makes me think of the Aries archetype in a very instinctual way Aries doesnt really think or plan Aries just naturally moves instinctually lives life. The way to naturally lead is one where we do things to encurage others or help them along their own path. The way I have come to understand this is through working with animals and especially dogs its like a mother wolf with her pups on her first outing with them outside the den. She naturally just leads you will not see her slowing up to much or stopping to much for her little pack she kind of just does her own thing she doesnt put emphasis on showing  care as to what the pups are doing behind her and they naturally dont want to be left behind so they follow and when it naturally comes to a time when a pup gets a little hung up on a log or doesnt want to cross a little stream she naturally comes to nudged them along always helping but not controlling or doing it for them but encouraging them to do it for themselves and only rescuing when a pup really needs to be. In working with animals and especially dogs is how I started to understand myself and others much more and about this natural animal energy in us that I link to the Aries archetype. You know when you watch the dogs play they are quite physical with each other body checking and bumping and biting and as humans we all have these same qualities in each of us at least this is my observation and yet in human form we are learning that we probably dont want to body check a stranger at the store and that physical harm or anger or violence projected at others is not the best way forward. Lilith in Aries uses  fierce diplomacy peace and love to lead the way in human form yet Lilith will also know when she naturally must step in as Peace is the only way but not Peace at all cost. Lilith in Aries in resollution is naturally fierce and she will stand up for whats right and she will fight against the Patriarchy. She naturally wants  equality and the best use of her anger is towards the courage to fight for Libras natural justice for truth and equality.


Thank You,
Heather


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 29, 2018, 04:27 PM
Hi Kristin, Heather, Nerissa and Everyone,

I would agree with what Nerissa has mentioned. To dive into the origins of the original female archetypes will be as much a process of remembering as a journey to myth and imagination.
To keep an honest view on what the archetypes really represent today one has to first admit that most of it has been lost/repressed and only creativity will get us back in touch with the truth of our original natures.
In that way, i have applied this premises to my participation on the thread, which turns to diving into the natural archetypes with much curiosity, few answers and the only certainty that natural females are not perfect but flesh and bone women.


LILITH IN ARIES/1ST HOUSE


Original

Pure soul fire, she embodies Lilith’s most primal instincts. Aware of the separation, she comes to find that the deepest parts of her own essence, the most pure and raw parts of herself, are exactly and only that - her own. When she looks at the world, she will know to be on her own to find who she is, what she wants, what moves her, what roads to take and not to take. There are few role models to look at and she will not be looking for approval. Her innate femaleness would be about how unique she is, and how different and independent she is from everyone else around her. Is she alone?
In a world made to tell her what to do, made to own her and expecting her to fit in, she is particularly and unusually wired to say no. The energy she carries inside is specially needed. She is brave, courageous and explorer by nature, a loner if that’s what it takes, but not lonely. She will be curious and passionate about her world and the next adventure waiting to happen. In her pure original female root, this is what makes her special - she is brave to stand by herself honouring who she really is, the natural matter real leaders are made of. Whenever a soul starts alone standing firmly grounded in itself, vibration of truth fills the air and others sit up and take notice. This lilith is just that. Even if if she does not know how exactly to do it or what will follow, just by connecting to her root, the strength within her soul will inspire others.
If she finds herself in a dark room this strength will come out. In emergency, her pure instinct will be to advance in the dark until she finds the door or a way out. A door she will leave open for the ones that stayed. It is who she is and how God/dess made her. Insecurity can come at times with cardinal/aries but she fights insecurity with action. When she does it, she is proud of who she is and her strength unquestionable.

Can we we forget this is a mars, yang, feminine essence? This is the female that comes defying all concepts of femininity linked with any form of confinement. It is essential for her to show traits not exactly fitting any of the patriarchal models for the female or, better say, specially not fitting any of them. She has come to life with a well integrated maleness. She owned it and could never hide it. It is who she is. It has come up with the need to start anew, stand for herself, take action, speak her mind, loud if needed, run wild, naked and free. This is an independent woman. Free from any judgments, boxes, ideas or expectations of what a woman should be. This woman’s essence is not static, it unfolds as she evolves, what is constant is the desire to do so at any moment.
We cannot also forget, through the natural sextiles to gemini and aquarius, and the trines to leo and sagittarius, that her strong creativity comes as much in taking action, as in inspired thinking. This is a very intelligent woman, thoughts arriving are naturally different/original, she can constantly reach new information, and with her mars nature she can act on it. From the root of her own self, very strong, creative women are born.

In an intimate relationship, this woman will reject any connection where she would be forced to do anything she does not want to do, be diminished in any way, or her desires not honoured and respected. She will value honesty and independence in a partner as much as she values it in herself. She feels that there is something very special about her and she is passionate to share and discover that sense of uniqueness. Sexuality is a very special way (i would say crucial) she can most feel/free/express her natural self and show others how to free/experience what is unique about themselves too.
Sexual preferences will be adjusted to the moment, the person she is with, what she would like to experiment, with no limits to what that should be as long as there is strong, intense, physical sensation. I agree with Kristin that in sexual contact this is a woman that needs as much to feel in control (she is instinctively aware of her needs and how to meet them) as she needs not to feel she is being controlled or restricted in any way. Mostly, mars wants what it wants when it wants it, and if she finds a partner that can adjust to that she is a happy woman, if not she will keep going and experience what life brings along, just being herself.
Monogamy is not exactly a concept fitting her nature, she will live life having as many sexual experiences as she desires, and passionately doing so. With a partner, she needs to find a way to experience and reinvent herself on daily basis, with and because of the interaction in the relationship. Secrets, lies, attachements and manipulation would put her off as this is a woman naturally open and honest about the nature of her desires. Instinct and desire being the necessary condition to initiate sexual contact.
With the cardinal challenges, she could face crisis when it comes to balancing her desire for strong physical contact and sensation, independence, and how she really feels about others in her life.
In essence, how much is she willing to give to the other and give up of her own freedom whenever commitment and real emotional intimacy come up? How can this reach a state of inner balance and equality in relationship?
This natural side of lilith won’t fit any pre-existing structure. When she accesses her heart she re-invents herself and the structure of relationship.


Distorted/ Resolution

This is the Amazon woman, the female warrior. From her own center she can create and destroy.
In the best of all worlds, amidst the patriarchal darkness, she would have the anger to destroy all that’s unnatural and the passion to create anew from what is, the ideal expression of the grand fire trine.
From a more universal perspective there is a why to her choice of incarnating the warrior. Repeated denied access to her freedom can make her forget it and forget that her personal fight is yet not that personal. She is not alone, she shares it with every other woman and every other soul that stands for the true. That maybe sometimes she just happens to be the one God/dess has called to be on the frontline. When she acts on exclusive behalf of herself she is forgetting all of this, all other souls, she is forgetting her true nature, she is forgetting her own Divinity. Who she is, is born out the will to build better, to star new foundations, create a new world. I get the sense that her soul has been through so much that this time she just wishes to leave the past behind.
It seems that the truth about her is that this a woman that can fight but she no longer wants to. Anger is born when this inner desire meets the realities of a made up world.
From the squares to cancer/capricorn, anger build up can start in the family of origin, evolve to work where she is undervalued, to tension in the family she starts and all crisis therein. At some point, distorted lilith in aries can live through women who lost all perspective not knowing what they stand for anymore, felling just anger and resentment. In extreme situations this can turn into a snowball of revenge and destruction.

Sexual abuse can also be in the origins of her most deep felt anger. One of the most difficult situations to recover and resolve, would be for this woman to internalise any projected guilt for her naturally strong sexual energy. This is seen not only in the square to capricorn but the inconjunct to virgo (and scorpio). This will be one of most important things this woman should never try to fix or feel ashamed of because it is not wrong. It is an absolute essential part of her original self, as it is the understanding that they cannot fix other’s projections and judgements, so the best fight is to keep their integrity and strength intact within themselves and applied constructively to their reality. That’s when others will follow her example and from the strength she emanates, also able to renew their own lives.

I would like to know your opinions on this, but of the charts i have seen with Lilith in Aries, it is unquestionable how strong inside these women are. It is a strength and inner freedom that no one could deny, it is felt all around them. Even when this is a woman who’s life was spent home dedicated to the family, she has done it in her own way and everything would appear to naturally turn around her. It is in my view, the direct effect of taking charge of their lives no matter what the situation they are in. The strength in their souls seems to have the answer for the resolution itself, it only requires that they pick themselves from the ground and, strangely or not, that would be their femaleness calling them, the part in them that wants to live, to care, to give life and create. Is that part that they will call with the mars fire.

If i’m not mistaken, i’ve seen the charts of two notorious women who’s aries lilith shines well for us to see. One is the writer Joan Didion, the other is artist Miranda July. i will leave some interesting examples of Miranda July’s work bellow.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Nov 30, 2018, 04:11 AM
Hi All,

Just wish to add an example of what distorted Lilith in Aries can be in real life, a case i had forgotten but applying very well here.
This is a case of a woman with so much anger that this anger has been progressively destroying the all family, of husband and two boys and anyone that gets too near. The husband is a positive example of the capricorn archetype, a capricorn himself, taking responsibility, leading by example in a loving way. He has been mother and father. At some point in their lives the eldest son started to be confrontational at school and with the mother. The father was able to take the boy to psychology meetings and at some point also both parents went. After the meeting, the psychologist met only with the father to tell him that the wife was, if i can translate it well to english, in "live flesh". No skin. Wherever she is touched there is a live wound and she reacts aggressively at minimum approach, with no known reason, she has always been a bit like this, evolving to worst and refusing to heal herself. There seems to be nothing the family can do for her. Progressively everyone is leaving her, emotionally and physically.
Unfortunately a very sad story, still not resolved, but nonetheless seemed appropriate to mention in the understanding of the distortions of the archetype.

All the best,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 30, 2018, 11:06 AM
Hello Heather, Helena & Nerissa,

First of all, I just wanted to share how incredible it is to feel the sincerity of your desire to unearth the feminine roots that have been so buried over time. I feel an inner joy growing whenever efforts are made to redeem her. This starts with understanding how she is wired in every way as well as seeing the distortions clearly so she can heal.

Together you have all filled in more of the Lilith in Aries/1st House story and made it feel more WHOLE. As you allow yourself to fall into those crevices, you will always be able to recover more.

I will follow with feedback,

Thank you all for taking the time to develop this thread....SHE thanks you!

So well done,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 30, 2018, 11:09 AM
Hi Heather,

I loved in particular how you weaved in her connection to the wolves. She is a wild child, a wild woman and she is built and born to run with the wolves and to ride full bore on the wild stallion; unbridled, naked and free.

You wrote:


She is willing to try anything just once..
Never needs others to go first.


SO TRUE...in fact she WANTS to go first.

You also wrote  "whenever someone told  her she couldn't do something, she did it anyway"

Telling a Lilith in the 1st/Aries she can't do something, makes her want to do it even more. This can get a teen into fast trouble with her parents.  :D

In the distortion section when you used the analogy of your Aries abusive father. Remember that you were dealing with a patriarchal male which would have had layers and levels of this archetype that would play out differently than in a woman. In an earlier post I spoke about the Garden of Eden Myth, Eve's guilt that led to the need to repent, and Adam's guilt that lead to rage. The sadist in the man and the masochist in the woman. While there are women that are also sadistic in their anger, the experience you had as a child and his treatment of you reflects this dynamic of how this repressed rage manifests in a man who has that kind of control over a woman and/or children in some cases. I realize you were just letting us know you felt Aries in full but just wanted to make sure you were clear.

Lilith in Aries distorted and her rage is directly linked with the control and domination of the patriarchy and the injustices that occurred. She has no desire to dominate and punish in this way, especially those that are weak. Her rage is directly targeted at that patriarchal male and how they have taken advantage of the women.

The Amazons/Lilith in Aries of our time were known to take on armies of men, and prevail, all to protect their tribe and their children. They would lay their life on the line for their families, seen in the square to Cancer.

In your Resolution, again I loved your mother wolf examples and how they encourage their cubs to do it for themselves..spot on.

***

Lilith in the 1st/Aries -   they do naturally LEAD by EXAMPLE!

Great work,
Kristin





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 30, 2018, 11:35 AM
Greetings Helena,

I can understand the feeling of needing to work around and through those layers that have kept us from our natures. Women have become numb to their truth and it can be a challenge to hear the sound of the drum, the heartbeat that is calling us home.

Thank you for be willing to dig.

You wrote:

 She cannot be told what to do.

Yes, this choice must always come from within her. Her movements and her choices must be born out of her instinctual being.

I agree fully as well that is in her own natural vibration that others in her midst benefit. It is the vibration that emanates from her root, the very strength of her Soul, that inspires others to have the courage to do the same.

I really loved this.

She fights insecurity with action.
 SO TRUE! Action is how she LEARNS.

The insecurity is seen in the cardinal archetype but also in the natural square to Cancer. In Aries this insecurity exists because they are initiating something new and not sure what they will find.


You wrote
One of the most difficult situations to recover and resolve, would be for this woman to internalize any projected guilt for her naturally strong sexual energy. This is seen not only in the square to Capricorn but the inconjunct to Virgo (and Scorpio). This will be one of most important things this woman should never try to fix or feel ashamed of because it is not wrong.

Excellent addition and ever so true as well. This very piece and the learned guilt she carries will need to be expunged in order to access her full freedom again.

In your added post about the family you know. This is a classic example of how dangerous anger can be when its repressed and when all the negative emotions connected with anger are held onto, such as resentment.  Her anger has literally festered for so long that it has burned away even the Capricorn skin that is in place to protect her.

I absolutely loved that you shared some example of Lilith in the 1st/Aries. What an image of that little girl Miranda. This is so Aries/Cancer.

You have filled in more of the gaps, very well done Helena,

Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Nov 30, 2018, 11:45 AM
Hi Heather,

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

That IS why you called in that father...both sides of that coin.

And now you can help others understand the WHY to their realities. Ea is amazing.

Good growth girl,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 01, 2018, 09:19 AM
Hi Nerissa,

Just wanted to check in to see if you were working further on the 1st House/Aries distorted and resolution of Lilith before I share anything more.

Let me know,
Thanks,

Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 01, 2018, 10:49 AM
Hi Kristin,

thank you so much for your warm encouragement and for giving back so much more to take in.

I agree this is a time and a topic calling people to access their inner light. I was approaching this subject with some friends aside from astrology, and whenever this comes up everyone has its own story and inner knowledge. One of this friends life project is trying to create a school with new teaching that respects and encourages children's individuality, it turns out she has lilith in sagittarius! We already know this stuff but one can never end with amazement!

I really like the example of Miranda July's work too, it is part of an interactive exhibition where everyone is invited to step on these pedestals, how cool is that for lilith aries to put others on a pedestal?  ;D

Thank you again,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 02, 2018, 09:09 AM
Hello All,

Another wonderful example of Lilith in the 1st/Aries House, is singer/song writer Sarah Mclachlan who was the founder of LILITH FAIR Tour ~  a Celebration of Women in music. She spearheaded an all female musical artist festival bringing 2 million people together to raise money for battered women.

Sarah's Moon is in Capricorn in the 2nd house and squares a South Node (of the Moon) in Libra in the 10th and the North Node in Aries in the 4th. Notice the strong cardinal axis here and her desire to balance the scales of gender and justice.

Her natal Asteroid Lilith is in the 1st House in Sagittarius, so we must combine this archetype with Aries.

Her Strong Sagittarian influence is seen with her 9th House Pluto, Sagittarius rising and Lilith in Sagittarius in the 1st House. Jupiter, the ruler of Sagittarius, is in Virgo and also in the 9th house. Sarah spent six months in the woods alone writing her breakthrough album that soared internationally as well, called Fumbling Towards Ecstasy. Her lyrics in this album are about Love and Loss, Death and Rebirth.

Mclachlan's South Node of Lilith is in Taurus (Music) in the 5th so she brings her music to the stage in a far reaching way. Her North Node of Lilith is 1 Capricorn which is exactly conjunct her VENUS, the ruler of her South Node of the Moon in Libra as well as the South Node of her Asteroid Lilith in Taurus.

An example here of some of her lyrics....

Fumbling Towards Ecstasy

All the fear has left me now
I’m not frightened anymore
It’s my heart that pounds beneath my flesh
It’s my mouth that pushes out this breath

And if I shed a tear I won’t cage it
I won’t fear love
And if I feel a rage I won’t deny it
I won’t fear love



Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Dec 02, 2018, 04:37 PM
Thanks for waiting for me, Kristin and all of you...
,
Original, natural root expression:

Her inherent drive is naturally male/female, she does not judge or question what she is, a natural expression that does not stop to reflect on any limitations: whatever she is, there is no judgment, but the pure freedom of her natural drive to exist, and her right to express herself (regardless of social norms or expectations), that is yoked to a greater goal, a goal and purpose that is not merely ego-driven but the pure action of who she innately is (on all levels: emotional, mental, physical)that she knows, consciously, instinctively or on faith, that she is the pure expression of Source.

This is rooted in the recognition that she, as all beings, have the right to live, to be the creatures of God/dess. She expresses this purely in her thoughts, feelings, words, actions. She, most importantly, uses her instinct to create harmony versus divisiveness, sex to unite versus power/domination, she uses her natural gifts including leadership to PROTECT others: she protects their right to act, speak, live and express themselves fully and accepts other's rights as though they are her own. She protects others as though they are herself. Without a mission of deeper purpose for her gifts and drives she would be rootless.

Distortion:
Whether male or female, there is rage against the strictures of society, the limits on their freedom, anger at any perceived judgment upon them. They are ego-driven, without a root purpose, fearful of separation from any meaning or relatedness - which is compensated by egomania.

They will maneuver however they can into positions of power to feel secure and validated within their ego. They will use anger, manipulation to control others. They use sex as power - withholding, or even celibate - depending on the co-dependant nature of the relationships they are within (if any). They hold that 'might is right'. They cannot relate to others, or listen...the deeper in their own self-justified anger they become the more they will justify the absolute worst, in themselves & others.

Both sexes can exhibit misogyny. Both genders can be enraged with others of their own gender, or the opposite, who do not conform to the social norms. This is a compensation for their own anger and not feeling they can freely express their own individuality and sexuality.

They are the epitome of an ego without an anchor.

Resolution:

Recognition of the actual source of who she is, faith in that which creates the intrinsic instinctual nature of her consciousness, to ultimately rediscover that root. In doing so, being capable of owning to her own actions, divisiveness and lack of empathy - taking responsibility, not allowing herself to be a victim. Within that, she will open up to true relatedness - on every level.

She will have a deeper goal, a purpose. She will live her right to exist, and that right is rooted in her natural RELATIONSHIP to all that is - the greatest good is learning to use her spirit, inventiveness, inexhaustible energy and drive to protect that very spark and spirit that she understands is within everyone, not just herself.

Her sexual energy is open and playful. She is not childish, but childlike. She no longer weaponizes her gifts. She gives as much as she receives. She can use her sexual energy to diffuse tense, or even potentially violent situations, and emotions. She gives without judgment or expectation, understanding her own intrinsic connection to the whole, being emotionally rooted within it.

She is a true spiritual warrior: just as the ancient myths of Amazons, to Arjuna, Joan of Arc, and Ghandi....

(a fair amount of correlation pulled in the grand cross: libra, cancer, capricorn...)

Also: I wanted to say how much I agree with the Lisbeth Salander character! I had only just recently reread the books: I have not watched the movie. But, heck yeah - she is lillith in a rage, though 'justified'...lillith in an Aries rage without much self-reflection...but she did do much of what she did to protect others...so they could not abuse others. At the end of the novels: she is very much humbled by so many people who helped her, that genuinely cared, that believed her - and put their lives on the line. That went totally against her 'on my own' Aries mentality...she had to open up and let them in (libra/cancer)..and realize she may have doubted and misjudged so many (capricorn)
She is a great character!

Thanks again Kristin and all who have posted: amazing to read all your thoughts & insights. Was hard to add to what is already awesome :) !


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 03, 2018, 04:46 AM
Hi Kristin, Heather, Nerissa,

So beautiful all this learning and sharing, thank you all!

Kristin, thank you for posting this. I'm not very familiar with this singer but all you shared from her is just amazing. What was very insightful for me in seeing this example is the shift from the energy from the sign to the house. Sagittarius expressed through Aries, seems to make the aries energy more impersonal for lilith. Mars not so much ruling her root but her drive, and it is interesting how this ends up in the need to be alone in the woods to create from the depth of her inner truth above all fear, insecurity and external conditioning. That culminating in a gift so much larger then herself.

One thing i would like to ask, since you mention the nodes, from what i have seen, are lilith's nodes for anyone alive at this moment always in between this signs?,
South Node - Taurus, Gemini, Cancer
North Node - Sagittarius, Capricorn

Thanks again,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 03, 2018, 11:38 AM
HI Nerissa,

Thank you for your wonderful contribution.

The process of feeling into the archetypes and reflecting upon them further deepens our understanding.

Each of you have your own unique lens and way of inwardly experiencing this archetype, so all 3 of you have added onto what I shared and thus added onto the whole.


"in her natural form you said there is no judgment..yes a natural woman never judges or apologizes for whose she is..especially a 1st house Aries."


and when this is distorted, she harshly judges herself and the way she was created BECAUSE of being severely judged by cultural conditioning.

Also, you wrote

She, most importantly, uses her instinct to create harmony versus divisiveness, sex to unite versus power/domination, she uses her natural gifts including leadership to PROTECT others: she protects their right to act, speak, live and express themselves fully and accepts other's rights as though they are her own.

YES

I would also add that the sex is to unite but also to EXPERIENCE, remember she is learning about herself through the adventure of the newness. She does like to dominate but it is a natural domination, not to abuse but to be in control, thus her desire to be 'on top.'


In her natural form, She is a fierce protector through her leadership and by being on the front lines and she is also well aware that her role is no more important than anyone else. Shaman is the same as the corn picker.

In your section on the distortion, I loved your tag line

They are the epitome of an ego without an anchor.  Excellent metaphor.

In addition, Lilith in the 1st/Aries can be very selfish when this is distorted and anger is ignited and make their own pain more important than another's. There is a need to embrace the polarity in Libra here.

RESOLUTION

You wrote

being capable of owning to her own actions, divisiveness and lack of empathy - taking responsibility, not allowing herself to be a victim. Within that, she will open up to true relatedness - on every level.

Yes, in the Resolution of Lilith in the 1st/Aries, the Soul is learning to take RESPONSIBILITY for whatever they set in motion versus setting it on fire mid stride, and making other's needs equal to her own in relationships, and in commitments of any kind. The key here is FOLLOW THROUGH, all the way.

Great Job working with remaining remnants that are so key to this archetype,

Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 03, 2018, 11:53 AM
Hi Helena,

One thing i would like to ask, since you mention the nodes, from what i have seen, are lilith's nodes for anyone alive at this moment always in between this signs?,
South Node - Taurus, Gemini, Cancer
North Node - Sagittarius, Capricorn


Great Question..

Yes, this is a generational evolutionary thing. It takes more than one to accomplish the intent to return to a state of balance again. These nodes in most cases will be in a different house. In addition, by looking to the ruler of the nodes by house, sign and aspect, this will give it further context and personal meaning.
We must remember too the different evolutionary states.

The Nodes of asteroids and planets moves at different rates than the Nodes of the Moon. The Moon moves swiftly and it never goes retrograde which accounts for some of this.

Obviously one size will not fit all if you see the same Nodes for two Souls born near one another. The entire chart must be taken into consideration to dial in on the specific Soul story.

Peace,
Kristin






Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Dec 03, 2018, 03:02 PM
Thanks Kristin for your feedback! Couple things you pointed out clicked for me, and made clear some things that seemed elusive to my mind

More I think on it, seems this Aries/1st placement for lillith could be one of the more tough placements. The sense of one's intrinsic nature being 'wrong' or denied and subverted would be so intense for these people.

And, until recently, so much of the Aries archetype has been a fairly lopsided 'male/masculine' energy - a masculine energy that is cut off from the feminine & distorted. For too long women were told that they couldn't do things: whether because women supposedly couldn't (getting an education or having artistic ability), or that it wasn't 'feminine' or womanly.

Bhaskara,
Thank you so much for your lovely and kind words :)


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Dec 03, 2018, 07:24 PM
so...I keep thinking about this archetype!

And how perfect it is to generate a deep sense of a lack of being accepted for who one innately is in this reality at this time (well, for awhile).....

Thinking how much more appropriate it is to relate male/female to the idea of yin/yang instead.  There is no gender assignment in the latter. And there is no doubt there is meaningful difference between the human expressions of sexual gender & body function...but, Aries: it is what it is no matter what it is, it will be that & expect to be accepted.
Anything less is traumatizing

But..what I was really thinking about is how - for women- we've made so many strides, because, on the whole, we are united...women can be in combat, play sports...and still be 'women', still have babies, families etc. I think of Danica Patrick - she's a race car driver, but otherwise a total fashionista clotheshorse!

When it comes to men, though....? I've spoken with a few, intelligent and 'enlightened' men but even so, they find it very very hard to come outside the gender assignment.
I will point out that wanting to dress nice, in pretty colors, fabrics, wear makeup, and be emotionally sensitive & open does not mean you're not male!!
A man can be a man and still be, & do & feel all of those things....and be a man...and quite possibly the same man who goes & rescues a family from a fire, or is a hero on the battlefield....they are not mutually exclusive

They accept women can be fluid in gender assignment - but they simply cannot accept that with their own gender... They acknowledge what I say, but they also have no idea how to move forward....
History shows men have enjoyed all the fashion, accessory circumstances that are now only accorded to  women (in the west):  jewelry, adornments in general, expressive clothing: or the 16th century: men in wigs, lace and heels, etc.  
I don't know: just been thinking about this in regards to the Lillith/Aries archetype.

Not sure how men are going to be able to move forward unless they do embrace & make a relationship to the inner feminine...

Thanks!



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 04, 2018, 04:50 AM
Hi Everyone,

Kristin, thank you for reaching back on the nodes. From an evolutionary perspective i hope we can at some point approach this more deeply, as to why this signs and the overall meaning for the generations, hope we can get on that.

Also been loving your discussion, Heather and Nerissa. Well, from my point of view it all comes at how far each soul has been, relative to experimenting with gender switch, and what it feels like to be in each gender, what the conditioning really feels like. Otherwise, from a long time, is just an effect of social and patriarchal expectations as to how one should behave in their own gender, from the outside. But also, from my own experience, it does not necessarily mean that a man with an already developed feminine side (in appearance and expression, regardless of sexual orientation) already feels at ease/expresses that side when it comes to intimacy. That would be also another world within a world in my view. Or, that a man showing no feminine traits isn't very caring, gentle and openly showing emotions in more intimate contact. I think it comes down to what's really going on inside and how "safe" one truly feels in the outer world and inner world, and how that can translate in harmony or not. That going for male and female of course. Don't know if you agree on this...

I would also completely agree with Heather about what you said, Nerissa, on the trauma that aries goes through by not being accepted for what it is...That is the bottom line, but there is always the possibility for aries to break free, the other expression of Aquarius and with the sextile, aries gets it instinctively ant takes to action. Even if that is anger, is breaking some patterns. The solution is probably to apply that anger to built something for itself, like in the example of Sarah Mclachlan Kristin shared :-)

Looking forward to continue,
Helena

P.S. About how men deal with anger in a positive way, i leave an excerpt of singer Gregory Porter interview about racism, one of the most beautiful, honourable expressions in the life of a great soul,

“My personality is to absorb an experience, let it live in me. I’ve been treated like I was a piece of s---, but my protest and anger and pain has come out sometimes as beautiful songs.” He cites Our Love from his 2012 album, Be Good. “Walking in New York with my lady, minding our own business, enjoying a beautiful day, somebody walked past us and said 'that’s a weird couple. She white, he black, he big, she little.’ I could have turned around and shown my anger but I let it stir inside. And I wrote a song about how the love we have is bigger than petty stones thrown at the gates of our castle. So when I see thousands of people singing that at a show, the slight has been conquered.

“It’s personal to me – I took that insult and I bought my house with that. I’ve been called n----- a thousand times, but I’ve turned it into my son’s college education. I feel righteous. And I feel lucky.”


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 04, 2018, 09:36 AM
Hi all,

I wanted to add something in response to something Nerissa wrote.

At the end of her post she spoke of weaving in all of the cardinal archetypes:

"a fair amount of correlation pulled in the grand cross: libra, cancer, capricorn"


This is exactly how to understand how this energy operates. This would be true for any of the other cardinal signs as well, including those in the fixed and mutable signs. Within each quality there exists one sign in each element, so you are able to weave in all of the energies that make up the full expression.
 
For example:

Cardinal - Aries/fire, Cancer/water, Libra/air, Capricorn/earth
Fixed - Taurus/earth, Leo/fire, Scorpio/water, Aquarius/air
Mutable - Gemini/air, Virgo/earth, Sagittarius/fire, Pisces/water

So when you have Lilith within any house of sign you will be working around and through the energies that serve as growth points. Take for example Pluto through the houses and signs. We look to the polarity point for the evolution of that Soul. The polarity symbolizes the furthest stretch and an embodied growth that reflects evolution.

I realize for Lilith in the 1st/Aries, the inconjuncts to Scorpio and Virgo are an even more extreme stretch but in terms of really growing through any one quality ie cardinal, all of the sides of Cardinal must be developed, remembering again in this context, Cardinal is about GENDER, male/female, and integrating both sides until the Soul reaches a more androgynous state of balance seen with Libra.

I remember when I was first watching the EA videos of JWG teaching and a friend of mine came over and asked, "Who is that woman on the screen?" I said, "That, is what you call a natural man." The more evolved the Soul is, the more the Soul has integrated both sides of gender, equally male and female. Of course this Soul has switched genders in many lives as well in order for this to occur. JWG has Venus Rx on the ascendant in Scorpio, Moon in the 4th and Mars on the South Node, and Saturn balsamic to Pluto in the 9th, a natural man, all the cardinal energies reflecting this axis.

Just some further thoughts..
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 04, 2018, 09:42 AM
Hi Nerissa,

You wrote:

I've spoken with a few, intelligent and 'enlightened' men but even so, they find it very very hard to come outside the gender assignment.

Intelligent men may appear enlightened, but are they actually evolved?

If they were evolved they would be emotionally integrated and secure enough within themselves to allow themselves to be vulnerable. Enlightened and Evolved Souls do not allow themselves to be conditioned.

I have run across many that talk the talk but inwardly, and thus outwardly, do not walk the walk.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 04, 2018, 09:46 AM
Hi Heather,

You wrote:

For men that are like that, like frozen in gender assignment just put a baby animal or a little puppy in there arms and you see there feminine side come right out...

So True...

The reason men and women alike become soft like the tender underbelly of Cancer when they hold a puppy or any animal for that matter is because animals are PURE EMOTION. They do not have an agenda. They are exactly who they are no matter what, wide open and wanting to give and receive love.

So this allows the human to follow suit, to fall into their emotional bodies, naturally.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 04, 2018, 09:53 AM
Hi Helena,

You wrote

I think it comes down to what's really going on inside and how "safe" one truly feels in the outer world and inner world, and how that can translate in harmony or not. That going for male and female of course. Don't know if you agree on this...

Yes, I do agree.

It really does all come back to the CANCER archetype, how SAFE and SECURE anyone feels to either slip into a space of real intimacy as well as to feel safe enough to express their nature in full without fear.

Cancer initiates the WATER TRINITY.

True Intimacy occurs through the emotional door, and it is through this door that two Souls can reach those deeper degrees of connection ~ Cancer , Scorpio, Pisces.

We must feel safe in order to TRUST.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 04, 2018, 11:16 AM
One more thing.....

The distorted Aries archetype in a woman when she becomes enraged due to being trapped or limited by the patriarchy and told she cannot do something throws her way out of balance, she  become reactive versus responsive. The Capricorn/Male energy does indeed dominate, snuffing out the Cancer.

Yogananda taught that, "Anger blots out God."

Think about this relative to the water trinity, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces.
The way to God is via this river of energy.

So as long as she remains angry and reactive, with no channel for release, she will remain separated from her Soul and from her growth and thus separated from God.

~Kristin

P.S.
It is important to remember that anger is natural to consciousness. It is what we do with the anger that becomes the issue. Suppression of the anger is the real killer, because it will inevitably become distorted. It's similar to submerging a beach ball under water. You can only hang onto that ball of emotion for so long before it launches out of the water in some unpredictable way, injuring others in the process.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 05, 2018, 07:47 AM
Hi Kristin and Everyone,

as usual your sharp insight delivers so much i keep having to let it in slowly, with many layers. Thank you, really, for taking the time and energy to naturally empower women with your words and wisdom.

One thing that stood out for me from your latest posts, is to go to the elements to see how this works in the natural world, Fire and Earth. What can be curious from what i understand, is that for instance in ancient Chinese wisdom, these two elements are known to have nourishing qualities for one another, although strong fire usually supports/creates earth, too much earth can deplete fire. The same going for how women with strong fire energy like aries have been depleted by the patriarchal pressure instead of nourished for their qualities. Using this analogy it seems like all the fire has been waisted when these women keep trying to feed/nourish in the wrong place/way, reactive energy as you mention. But i wonder, how can she be responsive in an environment that is not supportive of her? That's where i begin to think that in the root of this lilith, the only way is for her to create a supportive environment first, cancer, positive emotional ground so she can go up to capricorn using aries, the new start for social change. This for me makes a bit of sense, thanks for setting the environment so we can reach better understanding ;-) It has been such a great thread so far with a lot of good synergy.

Many thanks!
Helena

P.S. Kristin, one more thing on the moon/cancer energy. On your last zoom meeting, on the nodal shift to cancer/capricorn, you mentioned things starting to change very quickly with moon ruling the north node and changing signs so fast by transit, and i see that could not be more accurate. To tune into the moon making great evolutionary opportunity.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 06, 2018, 11:21 AM
Hi All,

Before we move to the next step, if Lilith is in the 1st House, she will more likely be in another sign, so this needs to be weaved in. If Lilith  is in the 1st house in another sign, remember that the HOUSE comes first. As with Pluto, we always start with the house placement.

Obviously, a Soul who has Lilith in the 1st House in the sign of Aries will carry a double signature. Her desire for freedom can be so total that commitment may be a challenge of any kind. In may be a Soul who does not choose to marry or have a family at all. Her independence comes first. If there is a distorted need for independence, she will be keep everything at an arms distance and not allowing anyone to get too close, for fear she will lose that freedom she is so wired to defend.

In a prior post when sharing about the nature of the sexuality for a Lilith 1st House/Aries, 'there does not need to be any kind of attachment or committed relationship in order for her to step into that space with another for it is all about the new, the uninhibited and the freedom to explore places she has never been.'

When you combine this archetype of Aries with a water sign, the energy substantially changes, as when the Lilith in the 1st House initiates something sexually that is being acted upon instinctually, with Cancer, a shyness can emerge at the same time, a natural innocence that is born out of pure emotion. This can in some cases cause her to pause, resulting in the two steps forward, one step back experience. This would occur in particular if there was a fear of being judged for the wildness that was being expressed. If the Soul was totally in her nature, without patriarchal influence, this would reflect a wide open passionate Soul who was able to reach tremendous depths through her sexual exchanges, as long as there was total trust, as the water trinity is activated in this example. Lilith in the 1st reflects the raw pure physical desire, putting that in a water sign would reflect the capacity to merge on a far deeper plane in partnership. This would also be a Soul where being a mother would be integral to her journey.

Please let know if you have any questions.
We will move to the next step on Wednesday.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Dec 09, 2018, 09:42 AM
Hi All,

It is useful to remember, because of the nature of this thread, that all forms of life, upon conception, are female. After conception if the new life form is to be a male it then is transformed into that gender within the womb of the female.  Within this natural law lies the possibility and reality of female forms of life who are able to reproduce themselves without any external impregnation taking place at all. And, within this, they can generate the males of their species within themselves.

When humans got around to conceiving and Ultimate Source for the Creation, this occuring roughly around 8,000 B.C.E, the first name given to this Ultimate Source was female: Namu. Namu roughly translates into ORIGIN.

God Bless, Rad

Here is an exception book called THE ONCE AND FUTURE GODDESS that is based on actual research that I would highly recommend that can be found here: https://www.amazon.com/Once-Future-Goddess-Chronicle-Reemergence/dp/0062503545

And this one called THE GREAT COSMIC MOTHER: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Cosmic-Mother-Rediscovering-Religion/dp/B009E9MKF6/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1544373716&sr=1-2&keywords=The+Great+Cosmic+Mother


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 12, 2018, 11:36 AM
Hi Ladies and All,

So for our next step, we will put the South Node of Asteroid Lilith in Gemini

I left some intentional gaps in this archetype in origin, distortion, and resolution, so you can work to develop them further.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin

***

 
The South Node of the Asteroid Lilith symbolizes how the feminine has been expressed in the past, including her run ins with the repression of the patriarchy. The South Node correlates to the history (herstory) of how the power of the feminine was expressed and repressed, along with the consequences of what came about linked with being a woman in the world. It connects to the memories of the past that live in the cells of your being that have influenced your inner orientation to the current life being lived.


South Node of Lilith in Gemini/3rd House


She is a restless Soul with an inexhaustible need for diversity, a Soul who has desired to explore a variety of experiences and circumstances as she comes to know her place in the world within these changing landscapes and morphing realities, each one teaching her more about who she is. Gemini is a mutable archetype, which is one of unrestricted growth and perpetual expansion. She hears an inner call for self-knowledge which manifests as a deep inner restlessness that is fueled by a continuous inner dialogue with herself. These thoughts are induced by exposure to life itself and this helps her answer the question, “Who am I?”

Her restlessness is also a result of boredom for nothing is able to hold her focus for too long. It is this restlessness that motivates her Soul to have new experiences where she collects facts and information to temporarily cling to in order to build a logical structure to explain her relationship to the environment. By knowing the environment, she knows herself. However, she never feels that she knows enough, so out she goes on a hunt for more knowledge and more knowns.

She has an inherent curiosity which has her collecting vast amounts of information with the feeling that each idea or thought that she follows adds onto her in some way, for the more she knows about the world, the more she feels secure and at home within it. She leans heavily on the left brain where she intellectually organizes everything she accumulates, giving names and classification to things in the phenomenal reality in order to give it a world view, which is why words hold so much power.

Inwardly she relates to herself through a reactive process whereby she poses a variety of thought possibilities that lead to outer experiences in her desire to understand herself. By initiating experiences of all kinds, where she is bringing in information from a variety of sources, she inwardly reacts to these thought possibilities in such a way that the action itself produces self knowledge. Thus because we live in a time/space universe that is defined and understood through polarity, this process of expansion must then contract. She learns about herself through cycles of contraction which are induced as a reaction to excessive expansion. “Do I really believe this?” “Do I really need that?” What does this really mean to me?” The contraction also occurs due to the degree of absolute overwhelm from the cycle of expansion and taking in indiscriminate amounts of information. By withdrawing from the deluge of external stimuli, she is able able to weed out what doesn’t fit or feel right.
 
She never idles for too long for her inner center is always moving, each new thought or idea replacing the next so there is no real rooted foundation from which to pull from, only a moving target that is easily replaced with the next new fact or shiny thing that is calling for her attention. Her inner center is a revolving door of intellectual and emotional perspectives and it is the movement itself that becomes her foundation and the freedom to experience this movement is what she needs to feel emotional secure.

She needs to be in relationship with others in part so she can unload all of what she has accumulated and process the pent up mental energy. This interaction with others brings a constant need to adjust her ideas which means more and more facts are needed to explain in more detail the complete picture of who she is and the world she lives in. When she is in a contraction cycle, she can be very reactive in her conversations with others. There will be the tendency to interrupt and not let others finish their sentences or she is not able to finish her own, not allowing for either person to actually hear what the other one is saying. The contraction cycle is experienced as too much water in the cup and an absolute inner resistance to taking in any more information.

In her strength, she has a fast working wit and a keen mind to assimilate many moving parts at once. She is a natural messenger. Mercury, the ruler of Gemini, rules the throat chakra. The Asteroid Goddess Pallas Athene is also given rulership here for she is the Goddess of Wisdom and Justice and respected for her intelligence. In her original state, she has a natural capacity to communicate with all walks of life, animals included, and easily adapts and integrates with whomever she is interfacing with. She could have been a runner between tribes where messages were delivered and diplomatic agreements were reached due to her knack for knowing what others need, serving as a bridge between two worlds. Her ability to see both sides of a situation allows her to find common ground with a foreign force where alternative solutions are gained and agreements are reached seen in the trine to Libra and Aquarius.

Sexuality

She is non-monogamous and open, ‘at least in her mind’, to all sexual possibilities. As a result, she may be bi-sexual in nature in order to fulfill her natural need for variety and diversity where both sides of the sexual whole can be experienced. If she is limited to one gender there may always feel to be something unexplored which can lead to that ‘something missing’ feeling seen in the square to Virgo.

In her sexual experience, she will want all of the senses to be included as well as all of the erogenous zones covered. The use of hands are key and integral to maximum sensation, along with an attraction to variety of positions as it increases the span of coverage and feeds her need for diversity.

She will have a strong mental orientation to the sexual experience that induces detachment and a feeling of separation from the partner. While this may be important for her to observe herself and the partner in this way in order to learn more about who they are as sexual beings, it can become highly frustrating for it does not allow her to totally fuse emotionally and physically due to being caught too much in her head.

Words hold a great deal of power to unlock her in those intimate spaces as well whether she is the one using them to stoke the sexual fire or she is fueled when her partner uses words to lead her further into a feeling.

Distortions

Considering the patriarchy has been in place for thousands of years, she would have been running and hiding from her nature for fear of consequences or punishments that her natural form of expression would have produced. One way of hiding can occur through idle chit chat or excessive talking about nothing of real importance, anything to distract another from a central seeded truth. There is too much talking and not enough listening. The hiding is seen in the natural square to Pisces and the avoidance of her truth can be seen in the T-square to Virgo/Pisces and the opposition to Sagittarius.

The distorted Gemini archetype can be known to talk over others and not let them get a word in edgewise. She can talk until she turns others off or talk in circles where conversations are started that go no where and that ultimately mean nothing. She will also have a tendency to react to words spoken by others that does not allow her to listen, leading to arguments and confrontations.

When this energy is repressed and thus distorts, the shadowy cast can result in dishonesty and duplicity due to her need for diversity in this world of duality, as she sees both sides of something she wants to explore and does not want to be limited. A curious sexual appetite to explore whatever she wishes is not condoned in a patriarchal reality so these encounters may lead to clandestine affairs seen in the square to Pisces. Bisexual desires can manifest from this need for diversity and in a repressed society this would have had to occur in secret. To cover up or explain herself, lies would have had to be told to protect her from humiliation or in extreme cases exile.

Just like two sides to any coin, she can flip to extremes manifesting as a Jekyll and Hyde split personality, one minute wanting it this way and the next wanting it another way. You may never know what you are going to get at any given moment in time as her energy can shift in unpredictable ways. The extreme swings in her energy are a result of feeling limited to have the full freedom to experience and express the diversity of her desires.

She is a runner and a Soul who always has one foot out the door. She is never able to sit still for too long and she will do anything she can to distance herself from the truth of her own nature. She may have had lives where she ran away from her own family or culture of origin in search of her natural tribe for it would have been highly common to hide within a family that is not remotely cut from her same cloth to ensure her own truth would remain behind lock and key. She is always running, always searching, yet never finding.

Resolution

Her evolution is dependent on developing her intuition as opposed to the intellect so the facts and information that she does collect can take on a deeper meaning and allow her to understand the metaphysical and cosmological laws that are the basis for the facts themselves. This deeper connection to the information will allow her to find the truth of this understanding, so she can experience the actual knowing of anything within herself.

One key way to harness and quiet her mind is is to align with one comprehensive philosophical or metaphysical system so she can give all of those floating thoughts that are flying around a bottom line, allowing her to be able to synthesize all of the content into a more holistic view of understanding and how all the working parts fit into the whole.

She will learn by only expressing a version of herself, there will always be yet another prism to discover,which will forever feed the feeling of being disjointed and scattered. By tailoring her focus within a comprehensive philosophical or spiritual area of study, she will energize a more streamlined approach to everything, including herself, allowing her own parts to merge and become integrated. “Evolution comes when she is able to understand the essential unity of all paths leading to the whole truth.”

It is her natural need for diversity that she must come to celebrate again versus allowing it to be deplored. The resolution and her healing comes when she is able sit in the truth of who she is in full and steep in that tonic with an unwavering commitment to its unveiling. The fog can only clear and the healing can only happen when the thoughts are forced to the back seat and her emotions are able to speak for what the mind has been working so hard to cover up. She will learn to be able to relax in a space of comfortable silence versus always grabbing for the next thought that could pull her away from emotional substance that makes her feel vulnerable in any way.

Her ultimate healing comes when she can harness the courage to be impeccably honest with herself and others, no matter what!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Bhaskara on Dec 13, 2018, 12:35 PM
Hi Everyone,

I came here to write my assignment but I just cant I am unable to continue on with things the way they are because I will not come off as authentic and as I truly am with my heart in this condition...

All I can say is I love You....

Heather  


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 17, 2018, 11:21 AM
Hi Ladies,

Just checking in on your progress for posting the South Node of Lilith in Gemini. :)

Let me know when you will be able to post.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Tashi on Dec 17, 2018, 01:19 PM


Here is an exception book called THE ONCE AND FUTURE GODDESS that is based on actual research that I would highly recommend that can be found here: https://www.amazon.com/Once-Future-Goddess-Chronicle-Reemergence/dp/0062503545

And this one called THE GREAT COSMIC MOTHER: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Cosmic-Mother-Rediscovering-Religion/dp/B009E9MKF6/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1544373716&sr=1-2&keywords=The+Great+Cosmic+Mother

Thanks Rad, I will get the first book.  Everyone who reads the Great Cosmic Mother
 -from the EA training with JWG ... has been so grateful to find this book. As time has marched on this still feels like the best access to the authors profound insight into the Temple of the Vestal Virgins and the distortions of the Pallas Athena archetype. 

Thanks again - this book brought it all into perspective, and still does.

Gratitude - always
Tashi


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Dec 17, 2018, 08:38 PM
Dear Heather,  

Sweetheart, you are not alone.  The voice of evil speaks in the language of futility. I know this for myself.  I appreciate your desire to be authentic.  This is one of the greatest things JWG ever taught and advocated. Just ride it out and LEARN. The value is in the effort.  Keep your intention steady and ride it out. I still have to tell myself everyday the same thing. Let’s hear the insights from your assignment.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 18, 2018, 03:33 AM
Hi Kristin,

i will be able to post in a couple of days (currently immersed in Pallas Athene...)

Heather, we do feel you! I am sure Stacie's words of wisdom speak for all of us here to you.

Best,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Bhaskara on Dec 18, 2018, 08:00 AM
Hi Everyone,

Stacie thank you  very much for the encouragement, yah I’m trying to work through everything and continue on and keep learning...

Helena thank you as well...

Kristin my intentions are to try to post I need some time to figure it out... Thank you for teaching us all here...

Heather


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Upasika on Dec 18, 2018, 03:31 PM
Hi Heather

I have had very little time to catch up on the MB for ages, but dropped in here today and straight away saw your post. I will never forget the work we all did together on the Skipped Steps assignments - you are a very pure soul which shows so clearly in your alignment with and desire for the light, and the earnestness with which you go about your work. 

We are ALL of us up against blocks, weaknesses and flaws in our psychological makeup, and our daily experience of ourselves can sometimes be pretty uninspiring. We are all in the same boat. Just as Stacie says - you are not alone!! 

I have witnessed you producing some very good EA work, so you can't fool me. But I know well what it's like to run a bit flat on it sometimes, even go really blank. And to write from that space can feel like we're not saying anything authentic. But that's just the superficial mind talking - simply don't listen to it. Take your time and whatever you write will be valuable and another step forward on your journey.

I suggest you just relax and enjoy your writing ... after all this is what you want to do, and here you are doing it, so you're very definitely on track!

blessings Upasika


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Dec 19, 2018, 06:17 AM
Hi Heather,

The value is in the effort made. When you simply focus on the EA you do very good work. And that work can benefit others as much as it benefits you. The value is in the effort.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Dec 25, 2018, 06:42 AM
Hi everyone, want to share a neat experince I had that has helped/is helping me understand my own Lilith. Much appreciation to Kristin and everyone participating for this thread.

Enclosed is my chart. I have Lilith at 28 Virgo, exactly square to my Mercury Neptune in Sag in the 4th. It is also conjunt my AC which squares all of my Sag planets. Lilith squares the rulers of both of my nodes, both in the 4th house in Sag.

Some time ago my friend called me to tell me she had a dream for me where Lilith told her, "Tell him to get out of the garden." Before I explain the meaning of this I feel it will be helpful and also insightful to this archetype if I give a bit background on my conditioning with orthodox Judaism as well as the mythology of Lilith according to Judaic teaching.

I learned about Lilith when I was studying in yeshiva growing up. I'm going to include bible references in case anyone feels drawn to check it out - it's really fascinating IMO.

The first chapter of genesis states, כזוַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים | אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ בְּצַלְמ֔וֹ בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹת֑וֹ זָכָ֥ר וּנְקֵבָ֖ה בָּרָ֥א אֹתָֽם "And God made human in his image, male and female created them". There is an agada (somewhat kabalistic teaching) that teaches that Lilith was originally created with Adam, at the same time as refered to in this first chapter. Lilith refused to become subsurvient to Adam and so she was cast out.

Then, in the second chapter of genesis Adam was created, seemingly just as male, and then was described as lonely, so Eve was created from a limb of Adam (total distortion of natural law, where as Rad wrote above, the female is prior to the male). They were forbidden from eating from the tree of "knowledge of good and bad" (note "knoweldge" is also a word that is frequently used in the bible to refer to sex. See chapter 4 of genesis immediately after they were punished). Eve was tempted by a snake to eat, and she did. Result was all kinds of punishments:
Man has to work hard, women will have difficult childbirth. They were forever thrown out of the garden. Thus original sin...

This story is complete with Judea Christin guilt and presents a total distortion of what is natural and fun about life.
In the perfectionist, masochistic spirituality of the world for the past many many years, that which is natural and untamed is viewed upon as impure. The uncircumsized penis, menstral fluid, female sexuality. The bible relects this in many places and the prevelent teachings of religions throughout patriarchy have reflected this as well.

I grew up associating with a very tidy and well oiled culture. As I entered my puberty years (consider: sex drive, natural need to individuate) I took it a lot further. My prayer times were set, I followed the rituals and daily practices to a tee. How to live, what to think, what to do, who I am - it was all prescribed. One expression of distorted Sag + Virgo is following an instruction manual on how to live a good and pious religious life. Yet I always seemed to struggle a bit with this sense of what is natural and intuitive vs what fits nicely in a box even if it's not natural and intutive to me.

A recent example of this: as I have been building my van-home I notice a funny tendency to get all worked up about making things look neat (color scheme, size order of objects, where things fit in just perfeclty) only to realize time and time again that the tidy way I put things together has nothing at all to do with the usability and relevance these objects have in my life. In other words it cramps my own natural way of going about living my life and I end up just ignoring the system I set up anyway because it never actually made sense in a real moment to moment living kind of way.

Question: Does lilith correspond to shame in regards to what is wild and untamed? I'm wondering if anyone has observed and correlated this?

My spiritual journey for the past couple decades has been about returning to what is natural to me, natural to my soul. This has meant a profound simplification and relenquishing of all kinds of beliefs and ideas I have held about myself and life - which means I have been facing this latent need to be perfect, to be tidy and neat and do it all right.

Relative to Lilith in Virgo in the 1st, this need for tidiness inhibts my natural need for freedom and movement. Squaring my Sag in the 4th: there is a deep need within me to be free and at home. To experience LIFE as my home and yet the crisis here would be an inner standard/ ideal to reach that keeps me from letting go into my wild nature. Realized as I was writting this that circumsized penis can be associated with Virgo in the 1st: Cutting and "grooming" the yang appendage. Lilith, seeing the wildness of the penis as something to cast out.

Reflecting on the message my friend received "Get out of the garden". Gardens are manufactored, they are controled. It looks nice and is something I can work with - all things good for Virgo. And yet I do not want to be held back by prescriptions that hold me back (Lilith Virgo 1st). I need to be free to roam the world as I am directed by my soul to do the work I am inwardly guided to do. Wuth Lilith Virgo 1st, ruled by and squaring Mercury with Neptune in Sag in the 4th I get the imagery of harvesting wild herbs, making medicine, doing healing work to help those in needs, making healing foods and medicines etc. Of course I am attracted to women who are into that kind of stuff as well.

Note on the nodes in my chart. The south node of Lilith is 29 Gemini in my 10th house. Well note that I began this post by quoting from a commentary on a very old canonized text that has been in my familiy history for many generations (Gemini in the 10th). In my sense this reflects the introduction of "book knoweldge" which had the affect of seperating my soul from it's own natural way of healing. Virgo is intuitive with healing, Virgo is an agent of the earth and can walk and study in her ways (mutable earth). With Gemini 10th, and note my Lilith squares its nodes, it emphasizes the story of giving names to everything, defining, crystalizing ideas in the world as well as following a tradition of book thinking "people of the book" - thus inhibiting the freedom needed to learn via my own direct experience of God and nature: Virgo ruled by Mercury with Neptune and Jupiter in Sag. Life became set in stone with rules and definition, thus inhibiting the freedom of the mind to find out.

I must share one more story that just popped out.
Many years ago I was traveling in northern Israel in the ancient kabbalistic city Tsefat. I woke up in the morning feeling that my hands were full of energy. I had no previous experience with healing, but I felt that I needed to do something with my hands. I met a Rabbi who invited me over his house for Rosh Hashana lunch (Ha just remembered that there's a midrash - a rabinnic teaching similiar to an agada- that states that Adam was created on Rosh Hashana). This Rabbi pulled his back out earlier that week while picking up a big boulder. He was not able to even walk up stairs and had great difficulty in walking.

Humbly, and to my own surprise I asked him if I could do a healing. He lied down and I put my hands on his back. I had zero training at this point in my life. Never took a reiki class, never read a book on healing. When I was done he was completely healed. He could jump up and down. He couldn't beleive it. Nether could I. He told everyone about it and later that year even asked me to visit his mother who was sick.

After that experience. I have a vivid memory of walking through the old stone walls of Tsefat and thinking "What is this? What is life? What is life that this can happen? I need to know more. I want to learn all about this.". It was at that point that I determined myself to learn how to heal.

Soon thereafter I learned Reiki and began practicing. At first I was witnessing miracles. Sprained shoulders, soar throats, upset stomachs. It seemed that my hands could channel healing for anything. Yet after some time after each heaing I would get very tired and sick. I continued to receive further reiki initiation from my teachers, but no matter how much initiation I received it seemed that the more reiki I would do the more weak I would become. So I completely stopped. All this happened while Pluto was transiting on my Jupiter and the north node of Lilith.

My insight into that whole matter is I introduced knoweldge and wanted to "contrain and control and learn how to" do the healing that came naturally to me without any previous knoweldge. The Virgo relative to Gemini wanted to catalog, lean the techinques, know what everything was about and most of all get the credentials, so that I can be formally trained (10th house). All this had the effect of distorting the natural impulse that came directly from Source. All reflecting back to a core sense of inadequacy, that I am not good enough by myself with my own intuitive impulses, to find out and learn on my own through my own direct connection to God; that I needed to find an identity IN something other than what was natural to who I effortlessly am (Virgo 1st squaring Jupiter Mercury Neptune in Sag 4th).

At this time in my life I recognize that this is natural to who I am, and is something my soul has known, but I have very little interest in trying to "box it in" or "control it with knowledge". Sometimes I do healing with hands and also with voice/sound, but I notice that it's always spontaneous and I never anticipate it. I am more interested in walking my path as my soul is guided, knowing that I will be and do what I am here to and need not add anything unto it. I am sufficient and there is not something lacking I need to compensate for. In this sense I am not seeking a way or a system to place myself as the present moment is enough for me. I can sense the healing of Lilith relative to the Sag planets in this: freedom to heal intuitively and spontaneously: not putting it into tidy neat rows like plants in a garden. Also integrated into my human life, not another spiritual identiy to hide behind (all my Sag/Neptune stuff).

The north node of Lilith is 18 Sag, in my 3rd, conjunct my IC and Jupiter.
Well this just adds to the ball I'm having with my Jupiter. I'm curretly writting this at the foot of mount shasta on christma eve. It's incredibly windy that it shakes the van. I am free, in my home, learning how to keep myself warm and feed my soul. My sense is the evolutioan of the Lilith archetpye within me is communcating truth that reflects what is natural and indigenous to me (sag in 3rd, conj Jupiter) as well as coming home (IC) and living an authentic, healthy, emotionally and spiritually rich human life.

So that's a bit on my growing understanding of my own Lilith signature. Everyone is invited to add anything more or ask questions. I don't feel I understand Lilith so much just yet - so everything I write here is just what's blossoming in my awarness at this time.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Dec 25, 2018, 07:36 AM
Hi Ari,

Thank you for sharing your story that serves to illustrate and teach about the nature of the Lilath archetype. Your story perfectly illustrates how the archetypes manifested in your Soul context.

"Question: Does lilith correspond to shame in regards to what is wild and untamed? I'm wondering if anyone has observed and correlated this?"

Yes, it does for it is that which is natural and 'untamed' that is the very essence of men trying to control and repress the very essence of the natural women relative to the 'beliefs' that are manufactured by men in order to do this. There are countless examples that could be sited to illustrate this but, to me, one of the most disgusting of all of them is men mutilating women's body by cutting off their clitorises: female genital mutilation.  

Again Ari thanks for sharing your story. I can only hope that this thread will continue by having others participate in it because it's intention is to help both men and women understand what the natural women actually is, and to help promote the actualization of that natural women so that, hopefully, our planet itself can become re-balanced into all that is natural.

Shalom, Rad



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Dec 25, 2018, 02:33 PM
Hi all, some more thoughts/observations:

First, a great couple days for observing this archetype in all of our lives and in the world:
Jan 5/6 during and after the new Moon in Cap, Lilith will be conjunct the Moon and Pluto at 20 degrees Capricorn, just 5 degrees after the new Moon at 15 Cap. So that will be a great time to observe this archetype.
Later on in Feb Lilith will conunct the south node of the Moon, another significant transit.

Also I realized that the Lilith archetype can equally corresopnd to where we may have played the role of supressing/shaming/mutilating/hating/demonizing the natural feminine. This archetype can manifest as where we play a role in the distortion. Intuitively feeling into my own soul past I can see this for myself.

Little story in this life. I used to practice a thing called  "shomer negia" which is a practijce of "watching my touch" - the idea being that touch with women can intigate sexual impulses (1st house) that are wrong, dirty (Virgo) and possibly lead to further sin. [Also that it's forbidden to touch women when they are menstrating - and since no one knows if a woman is menstrating, and its not something to ask, and that she may not have taken the ritual bath ayway etc etc... just don't touch women at all, ever - unless you are married.. at which point touch is a green light but only for two weeks out of the month...]

And so I have many memories of where this twisted up and distrotied my mind and emotional body and that of others. In one instance I was casually touched on the arm by a woman, an attractive woman of my age (age 16 or so). I instincitively swiped the part of my arm as if to indicate I was swiping her touch off of me.

I think my fear was mostly that other people will see that I was touched by a woman and associate me with someone who touches women. I felt the need to outright reject and push away the physical touch with a gesture of swiping. I remember there was no sexual or any meaningful intention behind her touch, it was just a touch that occured in a conversation, or to get my attention. I realized immediately that what I did was shaming and somewhat communicated the gesture of "superior, better, cleaner than you". I don't think I did anything about it, but I can see in retrospect that my action may have had an affect of alienating and shaming her.

I feel this further reflects the lilith in Virgo in 1st square to my Sag in 4th as it pertains to alienating and shaming women/ the feminine within and without for what is natural.

Virgo in the 1st is very kinky and has a very strong sex drive. The natural feminine archetype in Virgo wants to get into the grit and nuances of sexuality and of the body. It needs the freedom to be wild and assertive with it's sexual energy and connect with all the nuances and intricasies. When this is repressed, it manifests as a false purity that can have the effect of actually "cleansing" by way of violence and or estreme (1st house) acts of purging/cleansing that actuall violate and distort what is already perfect just as it is. IE trying to fix something natural because it's dirty and wrong, only to create trauma; to cleanse and "fix" the natural sexual energy that is dangerous, wild, destructive, dirty and so it much be purified.

I do not know if in past lives I have manifested such violent behavior towards women, I would not be surprised. I'm open to any insights/ direction you may feel called to share about this topic Rad if you feel it is helpful/relevant to share.
I do sense that I have for certain been subject to them and have subjected myself to them to myself in various extreme ways as I have done that in this life.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Dec 26, 2018, 06:21 AM
Hi Ari,

The distorted Lilath in Virgo in your examples occurs because of the manufactured beliefs equaling religions, customs, norms, and judgements. Relative to Virgo that can manifest as a guilt/ atonement equaling masochism, and guilt/ anger .. anger because of the guilt ... equaling sadism in various ways.

Shalom, Rad

 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 26, 2018, 10:12 AM
Hi Ari,

Thank you for sharing your experience of your new discovery of how the Asteroid Lilith, the ORIGINAL Lilith, has been reflected in your life through pure expression, distortions as well as how you are uncovering how to resolve and heal this energy.

This is a clear example of how the original, distorted and resolution can be seen in one symbol, and it minimizes confusion for integrating the Dark Moon and the Black Moon, remembering that those symbols are both mere projections in space and the Black Moon can vary by 20 degrees depending on whether you are using the True or Mean Node.

This is about getting back to your ROOT design and knowing your feminine ORIGINS.

This was ideal timing as well because you have a 1st House Lilith and a South Node in Gemini which is exactly where we are in our thread and it was beneficial to hear it from a male's experience, especially with your Orthodox background.

I wanted to remind people that Asteroid Lilith ( #1181 ) must be added to the outer ring. I will attach Ari's chart here that shows his Asteroid Lilith.

You asked

"Question: Does Lilith correspond to shame in regards to what is wild and untamed? I'm wondering if anyone has observed and correlated this?"

Rad answered this question perfectly but I wanted to add that

The words wild and untamed are very Lilith in the 1st words in her original state and what I tell women that I am counseling about Lilith, is that "All women were not born to be wild, but all women were born to be natural."

There is not one Soul who I have counseled that does not feel some form of shame as a result of the patriarchy for not only expressing but admitting their natural feminine desires and the nature of this shame is always found within this Asteroid Lilith symbol.

***

Thank you for putting your energy into teaching what you are newly discovering.

~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 27, 2018, 10:49 AM
Hi Kristin and Everyone,

SN LILITH IN GEMINI/ 3rd HOUSE

Every woman’s root has sacred echoes in the archetypes of taurus, gemini and cancer, lilith south node’s signs. Even though each soul has its own memory of this distant past described in the specifics of house/aspects that this south is in and overall evolutionary signature, these signs show what we share as a whole, the female polarity’s body of existence on earth if we can put it like that, and it is interesting to notice here also the law of trinity, these three signs for the feminine’s past. And can we also say they represent earth, mind and body?
If we a look at it in the history of patriarchy, the soul that chose the path of gemini in the past is a soul that walked the road in the middle.
Taken as a natural expression of energy, this is a woman creating bridges, relating things, people and facts, as a matter of evolutionary necessity and natural adaptation. What makes her path and recovery work unique is the ability to use the mind and intelligence to understand and communicate this understanding to others, allowing others also to add their mind and intelligence to a common understanding and evolution. Evolution and expansion are in fact key for this woman’s sense of aliveness. To use whatever information it has within itself (most of the times information coming out of the need to birth new meaning from the adaption work) and put that outside, sharing and giving it to others, noticing then how that has contributed to help everyone go a little step further.

The Goddess Pallas Athene is the Deity ruling over her past and i would like to focus a bit on Her.
Known for her wisdom, we have seen her passing her messages and permeating the minds of each of these women (and men too of course), their lives and professions, and the lives of everyone they have met and came into contact with, by the sharing of their gifts. They were and are Goddess special messengers.
Who were these women? In the Asteroid Goddesses book, Demetra George says of Pallas Athene that “she invented the flute, the trumpet, the potter’s wheel, the first earthenware vases, the plough, rake and ox-yoke. As goddess of the arts and crafts, Pallas served as the patroness of artists, artisans, architects and sculptors. She instructed humanity in the trades of smithing and metal founding as well as the arts of cooking, embroidery, woolworking and weaving. Finally, as goddess of health and healing, Pallas Athene taught a variety of medical practices.”
So we have an idea of who they were and we also have an understanding of the urgency in which they are coming back and/or remembering who they were and their own wisdom, with the impressive resurgence of these (sometimes lost) practices, as they are coming out in the world and all the souls that are now making a living from it, as well as teaching it to others, in counter movement to fast paced life, artificial products, mass production and consumption. These women are the ones that have a practical thing to say in the making of a new world and they have the inner wisdom and ancient gifts to do it. These being part of their necessary recovery work, as this a woman who’s inner fulfilment would be strongly linked with her ability to have a place in a world where her talents (and most of the time her hands) can be shown and put to good use, as we are already seeing it happen.

The owl and the snake both accompany Pallas Athene. Wisdom and prophecy. These symbols in the past of the feminine so well express the duality women came to face. Both the snake and the owl are ancient symbols of magic, mystery and higher states of consciousness, and this is exactly what is and was under patriarchal target, suppression, distortion and destruction. The fear of the unknown, what was not seen to be controlled or limited.
The owl, with the big eyes that can see in the dark and its silent presence, as seen it all, knows it all, has been a witness of the darkness and forced silence these women (and Woman) have been living. They knew, but most of the times they could not share what they knew and their own wisdom. These are the women that were burned at the stake for what they in fact knew to be their truth and some of these women became warriors like Pallas Athene herself was Warrior Goddess, with strong links to the Amazon women in her mythological roots, also seen astrologically in the sextile from aries to gemini and the libra and sagittarius polarities. These were women that came to fight and be a voice for what they loved and believed.
There is also an interesting characteristic to the owl. It turns out owls have this unique way of listening, and listening in the dark. They have asymmetrical ears, one is slightly higher the other is slightly lower, and with this, whenever an owl hears a sound it is able to determine its exact location - when the sound is "aligned" in both ears, the owl happens to be facing directly where the sound is coming from, without moving the body just slightly turning the head. Isn’t nature’s intelligence the greatest teacher? Women and souls with the owl spirit, under Pallas Athene, are not only sure to listen very well to others but know exactly where they are coming from! It is within themselves the capacity to center still in space and time so to find meaning for their lives. Aligning higher and lower mind, spirit and matter for higher consciousness.
Of course, distortion of these qualities and we have women constantly running all over the place, doubting themselves, what they have heard, where others are coming from, doubting the truth of what they are seeing, or even becoming exaggeratedly suspicious and crazy, catching and spreading the wrong/dubious message.
As for the snake, we know the profoundness of this symbol and its dual image of both consciousness rise, kundalini energy and rebirth/regeneration, as well as evil excuse for patriarchal distortions as seen in the garden of eden. And also how some of these women’s distortion started when they came to believe any false judgement projected on themselves and their true natures, specially when it came to women’s natural sexuality and in equal terms to man’s loss of their undistorted feminine side.
Things came so far, mythologically, has having Pallas Athene to appear in the form of the Goddess without a mother and only a father. Her fertility became her virginity, her sexual nature her chastity. And so it is in these symbols still where the recovery remains.

It is unfortunately easy to understand why this happened to her. To chose a middle way usually signals to find a way to move forward and find resolution, blending both parts. The issue was that in here it meant to learn to blend male and female, under male dominance and not under the equality of both genders, so the female side in both women and men turned out repressed in the process. Gemini also correlates to justifications and in the repressed form, SN Lilith in gemini found easy to slip into the mind to justify and create all possible excuses to hide its female nature, as well as believing these lies. As Kristin as taught, this hiding is the square of gemini to pisces. This can be also martyrdom, justifying the victim role and women finding themselves powerless, as well as criticism, Virgo, for not doing the things themselves and how they think things should be done. And to complete the grand cross, Sagittarius, how all this translates into someone who is not living a life of Truth.

Another aspect of the distorted side in this past is the woman that cannot drive herself. Or women that are driven by others, commonly the husband, and criticise constantly how the other is driving them! The aspect of driving, is still today a great reference to examine how we allow ourselves the freedom to manage and rule our lives. Look at the countries in the world that still don’t allow women to drive and look at the state of the feminine in those countries. it is imperative, in my opinion if any recovery work is to be done, for women with sn lilith in gemini, 3rd house, or any lilith positions in this house/sign to quite literally learn to drive and drive themselves, any vehicle is good, even if that vehicle (or mostly!) is a bicycle :-)
Another aspect i would see standing for recovery is the need to talk with their partners about sex, not just having sex. That wouldn’t work for most anyone, lack of communication, but it is healing work for women with SN Lilith in Gemini or the 3rd. This need is in the background of their own lilith placements and can remain locked in the unconscious. Let’s remember women were not allowed to desire so they were even more forbidden to talk about their desires. So communication is key, again, the thing they should not try to fix within themselves because its is not wrong. it is not wrong to think and talk about sex either. This will allowed them to also know their desires the moment they arise, because and by the fact they can be experimented and expressed to and with the other. It will be liberating when it is done. They probably will need to talk about how they feel and how they like to be touched and be very sensitive to the partner's hands as they relate to mind very directly, and specially for these women. They can discern very well the intentions/thinking/desires of the other just by the way they are being touched. Since her entire brain is an erogenous zone, what she listens from her partner is also closely related to how aroused she is and she will get sexuality aroused when she is able to trust a man that speaks the truth about how he is feeling, with no judgment to what these feelings are but the capacity to share each others truth. Within this trust, she can relax the mind and go with the body and body sensations.
it is also very likely these women's male side is very well developed if we think gemini correlates too with bisexuality. Changing gender was most times a crucial part of the adaptation and soul evolution. So this is a woman who’s sexuality could be very diverse and even change much relative to preferences throughout life, because that would be a natural way for her to evolve and experiment to find her truth, of course having consideration that this would not be always present in all evolutionary states and would have many other forms to represent diversity.

There is another aspect i just found out about Lilith’s nodes that it is very interesting to share (i don’t know Kristin if i am going a bit far out here…) but i started to notice that all charts that i seen have Lilith/Ceres nodal axis correlation. And so, Lilith SN is conjunct Ceres NN, and Lilith NN is conjunct Ceres SN. It is quite an information! If we relate that with how the femine’s roots correlate to the rebirth of Women, and the necessary process of reviving those roots is exactly acknowledging the need for recovery and accepting this coming out of the underground as Ceres, to give birth to a new earth, well i think is such a strong symbol… I would really like to know your opinion about it, if now it is appropriate time, but this really shook things for me, like finding a very important piece of the puzzle.

Thank you again and i would just like to mention once again how profound it is to be able discuss this things.
This is a very important thread, my greatest appreciation for the time you devote to this teaching Kristin (and the patience to wait on us...) and the time everyone gives to participate in it also, sharing is learning and evolving.

Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 27, 2018, 11:10 AM
Greetings Helena,

Thank you for posting and for putting your heart and Soul into this Lilith journey.

I was not aware of the Nodes of Lilith mirroring those of Ceres but it feels you are really onto something here. It makes perfect sense how these Goddess energies traveled through time and how they would have been expressed and also repressed together in this way. By sharing the same NN, it would reflect how the energies are working together to resurrect the feminine.

I am limited on time this morning but will comment more on this as well your post tomorrow morning.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 27, 2018, 11:11 AM
Hi Nerissa,

Just checking in to see how you are coming along with the post and what your timeline is.

Namaste,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 27, 2018, 11:42 AM
Hi Kristin,
thank you. Yes it would be very helpful if you can shed your light on it.

If i'm not mistaken seeing it, this older topic helped me confirm it

http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,835.0.html


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Dec 28, 2018, 10:42 AM
Hi Helena,

Just wonderful what you are sharing. I just want to correct one thing you said about Amazon women having mythological origins. The reality is that there actually were, their own genetics, dna/rna, Amazon women in history that has been documented.

Here is a book that does just that: The Amazons: Lives and Legends of Warrior Women across the Ancient World

https://www.amazon.com/Amazons-Legends-Warrior-across-Ancient/dp/0691170274/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546014083&sr=1-1&keywords=amazon+women
 

"In her groundbreaking book, Adrienne Mayor has gone above and beyond all past works in making the Amazon women of legend real. The stories of who the Amazons were, how they really lived, and why they loved their lives with such timeless vivacity make the reader of this sensational work want to stand up and raise her sword to the sky to cheer! Never before has one author so seamlessly merged the iconic lives and lore of the Amazons with genuine images, facts, and research. With the depth of a textbook and the easy conversational style of a good friend, Mayor rapidly dispels myths about one of the strongest female cultures in history while uplifting the hearts of readers with dreams of strength and adventure. The Amazons is an absolute must-have for any person who yearns to learn about how women in the ancient world really lived and for those modern heroes and heroines who will surely be inspired by the rich, vibrant history of our world's cultures."--Virginia Hankins, actress-stuntwoman

"The Amazons is a stupendous achievement--a long-anticipated centerpiece in the great puzzle of humankind. The story of these forbidden women, silenced for so long by the rigidity of traditional scholarship, is as exciting and surprising as a bestselling murder mystery; I simply couldn't put it down. Through scholarly brilliance and passion, Adrienne Mayor has opened the door to a forgotten world of gender equality, and her book ought to be required reading in every college history course."--Anne Fortier, author of The Lost Sisterhood: A Novel

"Nobody brings ancient history and archaeology to life like Adrienne Mayor. From the Russian steppes to China, and from Roman Egypt and Arabia to the Etruscans, she leads the reader on a breathtaking quest for the real ancient warrior women reflected in myths--their daring, archery, tattoos, fine horses, and independence from male control. The book's rich erudition, communicated in sparkling prose and beautiful illustrations, makes it a riveting read."--Edith Hall, author of Introducing the Ancient Greeks: From Bronze Age Seafarers to Navigators of the Western Mind

"Adrienne Mayor's inquiry into the myth--and surprising reality--of Amazon women begins with the fierce Greek huntress Atalanta, but takes us deep into the past and as far afield as the Great Wall of China. With the restless curiosity and meticulous scholarship that have become her hallmark, the author once again has found a gap in my bookshelf and filled it, admirably."--Steven Saylor, author of Raiders of the Nile: A Novel of the Ancient World

"Adrienne Mayor excels at demonstrating the truth that lies behind what seems simply storytelling, and there is no more exciting confrontation of myth and history than in the story of the Amazons. This is a great book--at once exhaustive, scholarly, thrilling, and imaginative, spanning the history, art, and imagination of ancient peoples from Italy to China."--John Boardman, University of Oxford

"One can only wonder at the courage and conviction of the ancient warrior women who dared to defy their peers, and who became such powerful inspirations that their memory lives on for millennia. We owe it to them to remember their stories. Adrienne Mayor's fabulous book illuminates a complex picture of ancient lives. It gives us the chance to understand these amazing female fighters, and to recognize their daughters in our midst, those who fight with courage and conviction for what they know is a better world."--Samantha "Swords" Catto-Mott, medieval long-sword champion and creator of special effects in film

"In this fascinating book, which combines flowing prose, a lively and engaging presentation, and wonderful illustrations, Adrienne Mayor brings the reader into the excitement of discovering the truth about the Amazons. She demonstrates quite convincingly that the Amazon traditions largely derive from the undeniable historical fact that nomadic, armed horsewomen existed on the fringes of the ancient Greek world. Mayor is the first to examine the evidence systematically and in detail and she makes a concrete and persuasive case."--William Hansen, author of Classical Mythology: A Guide to the Mythical World of the Greeks and Romans

"In this comprehensive account of the Amazons, Adrienne Mayor examines the subject in a way that no one else has done and presents overwhelming evidence that they were not entirely fictitious. Only Mayor has looked at the evidence from all the relevant fields to show how, together, they can solve what to each of them separately are complete mysteries. This will be the classic book on the subject for a very long time."--Elizabeth Wayland Barber, author of The Dancing Goddesses: Folklore, Archaeology, and the Origins of European Dance

**********

Amazons―fierce warrior women dwelling on the fringes of the known world―were the mythic archenemies of the ancient Greeks. Heracles and Achilles displayed their valor in duels with Amazon queens, and the Athenians reveled in their victory over a powerful Amazon army. In historical times, Cyrus of Persia, Alexander the Great, and the Roman general Pompey tangled with Amazons.

But just who were these bold barbarian archers on horseback who gloried in fighting, hunting, and sexual freedom? Were Amazons real? In this deeply researched, wide-ranging, and lavishly illustrated book, National Book Award finalist Adrienne Mayor presents the Amazons as they have never been seen before. This is the first comprehensive account of warrior women in myth and history across the ancient world, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Great Wall of China.

Mayor tells how amazing new archaeological discoveries of battle-scarred female skeletons buried with their weapons prove that women warriors were not merely figments of the Greek imagination. Combining classical myth and art, nomad traditions, and scientific archaeology, she reveals intimate, surprising details and original insights about the lives and legends of the women known as Amazons. Provocatively arguing that a timeless search for a balance between the sexes explains the allure of the Amazons, Mayor reminds us that there were as many Amazon love stories as there were war stories. The Greeks were not the only people enchanted by Amazons―Mayor shows that warlike women of nomadic cultures inspired exciting tales in ancient Egypt, Persia, India, Central Asia, and China.

Driven by a detective's curiosity, Mayor unearths long-buried evidence and sifts fact from fiction to show how flesh-and-blood women of the Eurasian steppes were mythologized as Amazons, the equals of men. The result is likely to become a classic.

And here is a video on YouTube that does the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycvhEzHQ_aw

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 28, 2018, 10:45 AM
Hi Helena,

Yes, it is true that all of us have sacred echoes in the archetypes of taurus, gemini and cancer, lilith south node’s signs , although due to the fact the South Node of Lilith connects to our most recent past and the patriarchal past of thousands of years, the sacred expression of this energy is limited, in many respects the woman's thumbprint is unrecognizable. Which is why a thread such as this is so important, to help Souls remember in order to recover.

Even though we all share a South Node of Lilith in one of these signs, the South Node of Lilith can land in any of the 12 houses, remembering that the house comes first, the foundation of that sign. For example Pluto in the 1st in Virgo, the energy of the house comes first. You may have a client who has South Node of Lilith in Gemini, but if it is in the 8th house. It will operate in dramatically different ways than say a South Node of Lilith in Gemini in the 6th house. ( I am just wanting to remind readers of this )

Your analogy of a SN  of Lilith in Gemini, walked that road in the middle is just right and you can see with the natural trine to Libra and Aquarius, this would be true for the air signs, Libra the fence sitter and Aquarius more on the outskirts perhaps but definitely not IN the middle of anything. The airs signs are adept at observing and not totally committing in one direction or another. When we consider the Lilith in the 1st with a SN in Gemini, she will want to leave her options open.

I enjoyed your addition of using Pallas Athene here as she a Goddess strong in her use of the hands and the mind, a messenger through her intellectual and creative pursuits, feeding that need for diversity.

Nice addition too in looking at the other mutable energies and their relation to the SN of Lilith in Gemini can be 'running from herself', Virgo is making excuses why can can't be herself or criticizing her nature and feeling as if something is wrong with her, Sagittarius, not being honest with others so she can fulfill her need for diversity and Pisces, hiding from her nature so she is not judged an persecuted for it.

One reason as well that the SN of Lilith in Gemini Soul can lose her drive to finish something, apart from her need for diversity, is the doubt within her of not feeling smart enough, so she bails out. This is of course due to what the patriarchy has made her feel about herself.

Your wrote

This will allow them to also know their desires the moment they arise, because and by the fact they can be experimented and expressed to and with the other. It will be liberating when it is done. They probably will need to talk about how they feel and how they like to be touched and be very sensitive to the partner's hands as they relate to mind very directly, and specially for these women. They can discern very well the intentions/thinking/desires of the other just by the way they are being touched. Since her entire brain is an erogenous zone, what she listens from her partner is also closely related to how aroused she is and she will get sexuality aroused when she is able to trust a man that speaks the truth about how he is feeling, with no judgment to what these feelings are but the capacity to share each others truth. Within this trust, she can relax the mind and go with the body and body sensations.

Excellent. Words and the voice are incredibly powerful to unlock a deeper experience.

***

I will follow with an explanation seen in the myth why there is a North and South Node Lilith/Ceres correlation but in essence Ceres connects to Recovering Something Lost From the Past and so considering women's natures have been buried and repressed, this reflects a recovering of the power of the feminine root in women, as well as the feminine within a man.

When we see a nodal reverse of the Moon occur through transit, it symbolizes the future meets the past or the past meets the future, as in something from the past returning and being brought forward, re-worked,

Similar to the North Nodes of Pluto, Saturn and Jupiter being in Cancer, this reflects the world's need to return to the time of the Matriarchy, or more natural times when life was in far grater balance in every way, including gender roles and how the feminine and the masculine were expressed.

We can see themes of the balance being re-stored in many directions, repeating themes that are leading us back to a more natural state...in time it will happen.

***

This was a wonderful addition Helena. I thoroughly enjoyed your post and how you included Pallas Athene as a symbol for Gemini, Mercury, throat chakra. Well done as well on how you honed in on the distortions of this energy, sexuality included, as a we must understand where the Soul gets stuck in order to untangle the past, leading to a recovery of the way the energy was naturally designed to be expressed.

Thank you for being here..and for the wisdom you share!

Kristin




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Dec 28, 2018, 06:51 PM
Yesterday I was going to post that I would have thoughts gathered @ south node Lillith in Gemini/3rd by today.....glad I did not.....Uranian happenings galore. But...tomorrow, end of the day, I will post.
Sorry if I am holding this thread up....

I want to thank Ari for his insights....I am curious: did you post because you have natal Lillith in the first and south node 3rd/gemini..or is this crazy synchronicity - ?
Last winter I was living in nature: it is utterly incredible, even to this daemon soul, how the veils are lifted so easily, so simply....

Bhaskara: others have said more, but, I am another voice to add: please contribute, be who you are: we value you
And....reading your post brought to mind a little epiphany type moment for me recently: in a gorge, a river, clear night, full moon: and: moody blues fan :)

so.....

this song 'dawning is the day' - I've heard it I don't know how many times....but THIS time..it hit home
starts very nature & simple but goes deep quick....

the lines that got me:
'baby there is no price upon your head
do it, shout it
now the angry words have been said
do it, don't doubt it'

There is no price upon your head, ie, a 'bounty': the universe isn't hunting you...let that go: be free: shout it, do it, don't doubt it!

And on top of that the lyrics continue in an odd vein: 'we think we can see you' 'we think we can hear you' 'we think we have FOUND you'

That night: full moon, beavers just having fun in the river, so bright: and feeling and KNOWING: there was no price on my head...and the more you clear negative, silly, masochistic thoughts: the more "THEY" can see, hear and FIND you.... I have added link to a youtube moody blues video of this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce3ym7PnXRs

Rise, let us see you,
Dawning is the day.
Miss, misty meadow,
You will find your way.
Wake up in the morning, to yourself,
And leave this crazy life behind you.
Listen, we're trying to find you.
Flow to the sea,
You know where to go.
But still we are free,
No one tells the wind which way to blow.
Wake up in the morning to yourself,
Open your eyes and start to be you.
Listen, we think we can see you.
Baby there's no price upon your head,
Sing it, shout it,
Now the angry words have all been said,
Do it, don't doubt it.
So rise, let us see you,
Dawning is the day.
Miss, misty meadow,
You will find your way.
Wake up…

okay editing to add how tripped out I am at how these lyrics are so utterly naturally spiritual in nature....wow...I've never read the lyrics, just listened...'they' are trying to find us...flow to the sea, we know which way to go..but we are free..etc. WOW....


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Dec 29, 2018, 06:00 AM
Hi Everyone,

Kristin, Rad, thank you so much for your words. It is really good to know this makes sense also to you because sincerely comes from my heart and soul...
Rad this that you posted is really interesting, I have already watched the video and it is impressive. An image that popped in my mind as how this memories are still alive today in our collective imagery is Daryl Hannah in Tarantino’s movies :-) And other thing that stood out is how this women were fighters but not men haters and actually men lovers too in their own way, because I personally always felt this way, that women don’t need to be against men to be their natural selves, of course that wouldn’t exclude the fight for any kind of patriarchal distortion. Really nice to know this.

Kristin, thank you too... as usual I always have to read your answers more then once and receive new meaning each time... To know more about this Ceres seems important.

Nerissa, Heather, waiting on your posts too. We really do all learn from each other, each of us is unique with a distinct voice coming out of the roads we’ve been traveling, that’s what makes us whole in this journey. And I think is no coincidence three of us started to explore all of this... Hope more people can join in too.

I have also enjoyed Ari’s insights, thank you Ari for sharing your experience this way, and would like to comment further on the questions you pose, specially when it comes to shame and do so as soon as I have a little time.

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Dec 29, 2018, 09:47 PM
I said I'd post so I am: however my brain feels like.......well, there is nothing truly dead so not sure I have an analogy!
This post is more stream of consciousness which I apologize for: but this, or nothing. Better something than nothing.
I haven't read the other posts - was tempted to, but found it odd with the first assignment....felt everything had been said so it was hard to post anything further.
I won't be surprised if I try to clean up my post come the morning.....
I am reminded of that movie "Miss Petigrew lives for a day" when she is trying to and very anxious to leave and says something to the effect of 'The current crisis has been averted, good day' and the gal she is hired to help says 'But the crisis is ongoing!'......very Virgo words, and pretty much how I feel. So this is what I've got under the circumstances.
Thanks!!!

The intention of SN of Lillith in Gemini relative to the natal Lillith in Aries is to incorporate the multiplicity of exposure to ideas, opinions, intellectual orientations to reality that will reflect and lead to a direct experience of who they are innately.
There will be no more intellectual ideology or posturing that does not reflect that actual nature of their souls.

A soul with SN Gemini has created reality of being free to experiment with it's identity, to be fluid, to be open to all possible orientations, to not limit itself. This soul would welcome all manner of ideas, opinions, they are oriented to opening their mind.

But this also suggests they must need to: there are issues here with previously being close minded, to allowing other opinions to affect them, to judge other’s if they did not fit their opinions.
So this soul attracts many different souls, experiences, ideas and orientations to human life that will challenge their limitations.

This soul would have alternately embraced or rejected this need:

If they have embraced it the soul with the natal placement in the first would experience a true awakening of who they are via experience: not mental conjecture or posturing…...they will filter what they have learned through themselves via direct experience of themselves in their lives
If the soul previously rejected this need: they will find themselves constantly confronted with ideas, opinions that differ with them, that challenge them, that require them to look within to know who they innately are, what THEY not ‘believe’ but know to be the truth for themselves, as relative as it may be in the moment. They will butt their ‘aries’ head against many people trying to enact their own series of opinions & ideas that aren’t really who they are: it’s what they incorporated from others via past lives……they will be confronted with anything false: this will be utterly direct….there will be no intellectual ‘shield’ they may feel totally attacked….
This requires them to reflect: use that intellect to understand their own motivations and desires, and not project them...

to further it's evolution the soul has needed to attract differing views: this may have been either accepted easily or 'shut down' according to any already existing beliefs, ways of being
given the natal current node is in Aries, this suggests the soul must find it's own unique path from the multiplicity of experiences, thoughts, ideas, people it's been exposed to...to find what THEY inherently are

with Lillith in this position given the nature of current humanity: there has been distortion of truth into ideologies that are adhered to......so many ideas, so many ways to 'back up' what they think that has no basis in natural truth. So this placement could show a huge showdown between limiting beliefs and their own aggression - defending false beliefs.

This aggression will come right back to them until their intellectual hubris is worn down…..to open to who they are. This might well genuinely frighten this soul - they may fear themselves more than anyone.

This placement indicates the simple fact of feeling limited by their culture as to what they could think, believe, do etc
The natural desire with Lillith here is to be open: but the strictures of society may make these souls feel stifled, feel like there is no 'truth' but going through the motions of the 'ritual' without understanding WHY - these souls want the information, but they need to know where THEY fit (Aries natal) to evolve.....
I think there is general trauma with this placement, at least at this time with those Nodes of Uranus in these signs...
a huge dichotomy between the 'motions' gemini and the truth 'sag'....

Sexually these people are open - they naturally are curious, they want to, and have experimented....Lillith here suggests a natural what we now call 'bisexual'....because of current society this natural state has been demonized....given the natal aries placement these souls would be required to confront their sexuality and be honest in what ways they've allowed the 'perversion' of the natural dual nature within themselves: either via repression or externally judging others...but their own innate desire will remain: they want utter freedom

In any negative manifestations these souls may regurgitate and judge others in ways that they have been judged: classic projection....(those uranus nodes, plus aries first house correlations)

if they cannot be free, or accept who they are naturally...be repressed - sadism could be present in their sexual lives because they cannot accept because of 'ideas' and judgment of society of who they innately are: this will become distorted (the rest of mutable cross)....that which is innately natural becomes repressed
Within relationships, these souls are adept at using words, information and ideas to back what they say, they can be charismatic - in the negative they can use this quality deliberately  appear other than what they are, or what they feel despite the intellectual words and thoughts......

With lillith in this placement, and in negative manifestation, the rage could be intense sadistic sexual practices: using the air quality to project their sexuality onto others (intellectual distancing via Gemini)......

ideally, with a healthy lillith - the natural duality of the sexes would be expressed within the souls own egocentric drive: a sifting of what they are, what they are not: a total acceptance, not just of themselves but just how 'multifarious' people, life, reality, sexuality are in actual life: no judgment...within that acceptance they still know who THEY are...not just in relation to the thoughts, the opinions........they know the truth via expereince and evolve via the pure expression of who they are - not 'willy nilly' because they have exposed themselves to other ideas and way of being, and not in fear of judgment for being different....

These are souls who can be utterly sexually healing to others: they get both sides of the coin…...there is no division or ‘roles’: it’s all one in blissful union……..all creeds, sexes, orientations accepted with no judgment...given the mutable cross to sag, pisces and virgo: definitely possible past lives of utterly understanding the mechanics of sexual spirituality


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 30, 2018, 03:05 PM
Hi Nerrisa,

Thank you for posting, I realize it is a busy time of year but your energy and efforts here are valued and truly appreciated.

When I participated in threads in the past, I too would not want to read posts of others until after I was finished because it did have a way of interrupting my train of thought or feeling of flow within what I was trying to write about. We can all say the same thing in a different way through our own unique lens and this allows others to take in the teachings more wholly.

***

In this thread, we are looking at a SN of Lilith in Gemini as it comes through the Asteroid Lilith in Aries so it was good that you were working to express it in this way. This was a great way to combine the energies of Aries/Gemini.

You wrote  A soul with SN Gemini has created reality of being free to experiment with it's identity, to be fluid, to be open to all possible orientations, to not limit itself

As well how you described how the distorted SN in Gemini due to repression of energy would have them attracting people that went against their natural grain and challenged their thoughts and beliefs. This would remind them of who they are not and what is true for them, and indeed people coming at them with ideas or beliefs that were not in alignment with what they felt to be true for them would cause them to react Aries style.

Yes, it is very true about the trauma that can be caused for the SN of Lilith in Gemini, in terms of going through the motions as you say, this feeling that THERE MUST BE MORE THAN THIS! The feeling that there must be something MORE, the something MORE is the truth of who they are and the connection to Spirit that lives within this truth. Without that, the Virgo void is felt in full.

You wrote

These are souls who can be utterly sexually healing to others: they get both sides of the coin…...there is no division or ‘roles’: it’s all one in blissful union…

Yes, in a healthy expression, this would be true.

Thank you Nerissa, well done, we are all growing and gaining from your unique and wise voice.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Dec 30, 2018, 03:19 PM
Hi All,

One thing I would like to add here as we have all talked about the power of words have with a Soul in this case, and it is important to point out through the distortions, that it is words that have severely damaged the Soul psyche. Let's take for example a woman being burned at the stake. For a Soul who has a South Node of Lilith in Gemini, it would be the words people were shouting at her as she is dying that would prove to injure her more than the fire burning her flesh, the words will make a more permanent mark. This leads to a negative VIRGO programming about who she is as a woman in the world. The negative programming rendering her powerless. It is this wounding with words that she carries with her into her next life. She would rather take the bullet than have to listen to words that feel like someone is twisting the dagger or in some cases making her feel like she is going to go crazy if she hears one more word uttered. The words trigger the trauma, they trigger the event, and they trigger the entire emotion linked with the event(s), all with the message that there must be something terribly wrong with her.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Dec 30, 2018, 08:42 PM
Thank you Kristin so much for your insight, guidance & kind words!
After I posted....I thought maybe I should not have: if I cannot bring my all perhaps nothing is better considering what others are doing
My instinct was to take this placement & put it in the various evolutionary states: I think the gemini quality made me feel that need, but it just wasn't going to happen - frustrating....

I am glad what I posted was okay & acceptable....however, not surprisingly....I do believe I won't be in cell range etc. in any regular basis as it turns out after all....
Life explodes implodes every couple days in my neck of the woods: to disentangle requires another extreme measure.....
If I can, as I can, I will participate if that is okay......I will follow as I can, & look forward to the journey!

ETA Kristin: what you said about words resonates with me, in my birth chart: lillith is in balsamic conjunction to Mercury & pluto in the 6th trining Mars in Gemini...opposite Pallas in the 12th plus that Mars squaring Virgo sun & opposing Neptune...yep, just saying: I know very well that of which you speak!



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Bhaskara on Dec 31, 2018, 09:21 AM
Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for the encouragement but I just feel like I need to heal more and get clearer so I can contribute better... I’m here as love and I try to share that the best I know how... Thank you for sharing these teachings with all...

Heather





Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: ari moshe on Dec 31, 2018, 03:33 PM
Hi Nerissa,

Quote
I want to thank Ari for his insights....I am curious: did you post because you have natal Lillith in the first and south node 3rd/gemini..or is this crazy synchronicity - ?

The answer is yes (-;
Instigated by a chat with Kristin and genuine desire to examine this archetype in my own soul. This conversation and the teachings shared on this thread were perfect timing with my own soul timing to look at these things - which happens to be perfect timing with exactly where the thread is at... and then of course with the clients I've since worked with who happen to have a very prominent Lilith in their charts... and so goes the never ending oneness ...


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 01, 2019, 06:45 AM
Hi All,

I am posting the chart of Melania Trump who has her natal Lilath in Gemini, her S.Node of Lilath is 7 Gemini conjunct her natal Mars, AND HER NATAL LUCIFER which is then conjunct her natal Venus/Mercury in Taurus. These are in opposition to her Neptune in Sagittarius, and square her Lunar Nodal Axis with the S.Node in Virgo, the N.Node in Pisces, with Neptune also forming squares to these Lunar Nodes.

Of course she is married to Donald Trump who has in fact made a contract with Evil: Lucifer. His N.Node of Lucifer in Pisces in his 7th House conjuncts Melania's Lunar North Node in Pisces. Her natal Lilath at 24 Gemini conjucts his Sun, Uranus, and North Node, and is opposed his Moon and S.Node in Sagittarius in his 4th House. That Moon  is the ruler of his natal Venus, Saturn, and Lucifer in Cancer in his 11th. That N.Node of Lucifer in Pisces is then ruled by his 2nd House Neptune which then conjuncts Melania's natal Uranus, and conjuncts her natal Pluto which is at 25 Virgo.

They both have their natal Venus's conjunct their natal Lucifer's.

Clearly this is a manifestation of the distorted Lilath for Melania Trump. In essence, she has 'married' a Soul who has made a contract with Evil: his Faustian Deal. What does this say about her ?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Jan 02, 2019, 11:21 AM
What I see here are two souls who have gotten enmeshed. They have both become attracted to each other’s “evils”, relative to each other’s needs. He is controlling her voice and she is cooperating due to the enmeshmeshment. . I notice asteroid Amazon is very near Trump’s Lilith.  His desire is to control and traumatize strong women, which I feel Melania is, but she is not being “permitted” to speak. He controls her.  Her north node of Venus is sitting on her natal mercury, and so this what she must learn to do for herself: find her own authority in her voice and exercise it.  Relative to her enmeshment with Trump it would be a primary tool to liberate her from the clutches of a man who wants to keep her natural power down. Her voice. There is also a chance she could choose to be his voice however he orders, but that will lead to trauma within herself..and others

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 02, 2019, 01:10 PM
Stacie - it's interesting because I see your point of view....thing is I was thinking sorta the opposite of what you said! So, I appreciate the different perspective....

My instinct with her is that she has developed the negative side of Lillith all on her own - reminds me maybe a bit of Yoko Ono, her own soul history might mirror it a bit: trauma...and the lack of taking responsibility that leads to rage & justifying their rage and actions..

I see her being attracted to Trump's evil....I see her riding his coat tails so to speak....I don't think she enjoys the role of first lady AT ALL: being a public servant is not what she signed up for!!

I think it's possible she is one of the few or even only person who is 'allowed' to talk down to trump, be angry or put him in his place......I even think she could be more 'developed' in evil than he is.....

She is his 'bride' - the bride of evil.....

BUT....having said all that - I realize I could be very wrong....

What you say makes sense too......it's just from what I know about her I don't think she's a genuinely kind, caring person: in her own ways she is always supporting trump, the birther stuff - or what about that coat she wore - horribly insensitive.....

Well....be interesting to hear other's input too!

As far as astro correlations: basically what you & Rad have already pointed...lucifer/venus....north node interactions....you have a good point about her NN & Mercury......it's possible she hooked up with evil because he was an agent & she felt she had no other options or choices and now is addicted to the situations he's enabled & given her over many lifetimes....

ETA: maybe it was SHE lifetimes ago that was the agent of evil to lure Trump...just something very 'accomplished' about her: she isn't under ANYONE'S thumb

Also, despite not being all that much of a public servant or all that 'nice' she somehow manages to dodge criticism and garners sympathy....

....Maybe your take is right, Stacie: it's a gut feeling people have that she is subjected to Trump...or just maybe she eludes censure because of the help of what is termed 'evil powers' etc. that protect her & create an illusion she can hide behind?? That she is 'ok' and is more the victim than the victor....

Regardless: Trump is attracted to her precisely because of her strong negative Lillith energy....guess you could say, whatever Melania is: he deserves her!

hmmm - looking forward to see how this discussion plays!



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Jan 02, 2019, 02:15 PM
Nerissa,

I’m in agreement with you that she has chosen her path.  I don’t mean to suggest she is a virtuous natural woman who just has a bandana stuffed in her mouth. She is most definitely contributing to Trump’s evil agenda in her own quiet supporting way. This is the distortion aspect of Lilith that succumbs to behavavioral contagion (11th hs lilith), relative to the crowd around her.  I think you have a valid point that she has developed this all on her own. The enmeshment with the soul they call Trump though, has cemented her in the sludge.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 02, 2019, 03:51 PM
Ha - yeah, nope: no bandanna in her mouth!!  ;) Gave me a giggle....
I think I know what you're saying about her....

I have an instinctive reaction to her though: sometimes, though I hate to speak of people's appearances, especially women: she looks almost inhuman

I have already edited my previous post....instead of adding to that just want to add here: that I think Trump craves to be sadistically ruled by another, especially a woman, so he has attracted her into his life.

He craves this because of his deep soul recognition of his natural wrong/guilt in his choices....I really think Melania fills this role, and maybe has for a few lifetimes.....
she may not herself have made a contract - but her own negative Lillith issues (11th/gemini: someone who can remove themselves & objectify others while connecting to their pain in a detached manner, ie, sadistic) has led her to Trump: he is the perfect specimen for her to inflict her rage, project upon, control - & he welcomes it....and she gets everything she wants...


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Jan 02, 2019, 11:21 PM
Nerissa,  I’m glad I gave you a giggle..we gotta keep laughing right?

I guess the burning question to Rad is, has she made a contract with evil yet, or are we seeing her sink into one before our eyes? 



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Jan 02, 2019, 11:50 PM
Her Pluto in the second in Virgo shows an internalized sense of inferiority, opposing Juno, Ceres, and Chiron in the 8th. Juno is in Pisces but Ceres and Chiron are in Aries. This a sado-masochistic signature if I ever saw one, one that causes her an internal rage and such a desire to osmose power.  The square from mars to her north node in Pisces shows a desire to utilize deception and fool people in order to gain the kind of control and power her husband has. Best recent example that comes to mind is when she made a formal announcement from ‘“the office of the First Lady” that Mira Ricardel should be fired, and then poof! Mira was fired. This also demonstrates the projection of that silencing thing I was talking about earlier. Mira was fired because she argued with Trump staffers during a plane trip. Message: keep your mouth closed, or be axed.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 03, 2019, 03:59 AM
Hi Rad and All,

this is a lot to look at... One thing is, i found myself unable to understand her alone, to focus on her alone. To understand her we always have to reference to him and that says something of what it is like to be abducted by the energy of evil and give personal power and integrity away. She is no longer Woman and that is one of the first things this says about her.

If she is 'only' strongly influenced by evil and out of the contract herself, there is also something really curious about her Lilith positions in Gemini because i think in the back of our minds, when trump got elected, we all hoped she would be the one to eventually turn him in, to speak up. It was clear to anyone that she was not 'in love' and was actually 'in fear' posing for a absolute fake picture of a marriage. That was clear to everyone (i remember on of my friends saying that to him her eyes screamed HELP!) and the fact that she has all those positions in gemini/taurus - sn lilith, mars, lucifer, venus, mercury and nn venus - opposition neptune, she is projecting in all of us! the picture of her martyrdom (we all 'secretly'/unconsciously hoping she would make it, feeling sorry for her...) and her whole sadomasochistic dilemma with pluto and sn in virgo/nn pisces. When she at some point gave an interview saying she was one of the most bullied person in history i laughed but now i do think she was serious... let's face it, she married evil!
The feminine roots in her, God/dess allow, still come in small details and mars strongly attached to the whole signature/rage (mars gemini, sn mars sag conjunct sn uranus, lucifer, mars conjunct mercury, sn mercury in aries) and we have hardly seen something like a first lady refuse to to touch her husband, reacting angry when he tried to take her hand! This of course also correlates literally in her case to have sex with the devil (mars/lucifer conjunct nn uranus) and the trauma therein. Trauma to her own personal power, her mars drive, the ability to stand for herself, the contamination/destruction of her vital energy.
To come to a place like that is probably linked with she believing the sadomasochistic tapes imposed on women, pluto virgo/jupiter in scorpio, and the ideas that Women should be perfect, beautiful and with a closed mouth to be of 'service'. So the gemini thing is about giving up her mind to someone else. If she ever wants something for herself, climb the social ladder, she believes she must follow these rules first, women are beautiful and men are in charge, she follows the rules of the 'perfect picture' with the consequent trauma of knowing real life is not like the picture at all.
I don't know what to think of jupiter and neptune at the 0 degrees... What is she only now starting?

Also, the fact that she hardly does something to get out of the situation is her strong taurus energy, to get used to the comforts/position she gained from being involved with him and overall social position, prevents any real coming out of the well. She simply does not want to see it until she is forced to - the virgo/pisces crisis and all the squares, besides the earth trines, allowing for compensation... That will start to happen when she comes to the realisation/crisis derived from her neptunian projection, that people actually get the truth about her and not taking as a role model at all, she will start to be thrown on to herself (maybe this is the 0 jupiter/neptune...)
I see another issue, and that is that the ruler of the nn is neptune and the ruler of the sn is mercury, overly enmeshed with everything already mentioned and both square the nodes... No easy thing, also because her nn of neptune is his pluto... Can she ever get out of this?

Helena

P.S. Rad, would her chart be a noon chart or exact time? I take her birth time is unknown?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 03, 2019, 04:50 AM
Stacie, Nerissa,

you bring up some points i could not arrive, as she being really powerful at all. I don't see her like that, it did not occur to me...  But maybe she feels like this and you are exactly right. This is what a supreme distorted lilith is about of course, to be convinced/thinking/accepting (gemini) personal power comes with a high price to pay, duplicity, and sell body and soul to any cause, even if that is an evil contact at such level... Maybe also the inconjunct of gemini to scorpio is not thinking of consequences, and she has that inconjunct from all those planets in gemini/taurus to jupiter in scorpio!
Yep, she wants to have power and she probably feels like that right now even if she is such a prop.

Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 03, 2019, 05:45 AM
Hi Stacie,  Nerissa, and Helena,

First my apology for not saying that the chart for her is a noon chart. I assumed by seeing her Sun right on the MC that would be self evident. So sorry for that.

Second, no, her Soul has not yet made a direct contact with Evil: Lucifer. She is right on the brink of that however relative to her choice to be 'married' to Trump.

And why she did that, made that choice in the first place is that, her inner dynamics that caused that choice, is that which reflects choices she has made in other lives that have lead to her current life.

In essence, her Soul has had deep inner desires equaling her need to be in positions of social power wherein she has formed relationships with others who have had that power in the first place: to be vicarious extensions of them. This can be seen through her Saturn in Taurus, in this life conjunct her Sun, and that Saturn is trine her Moon in Capricorn, and both of these trine her S.Node in Virgo. That S.Node is ruled by her Mercury in Taurus which is conjunct her Venus/Lucifer conjunction which also conjuncts her Mars, S.Node of Lilath, and her natal Lucifer. To become a vicarious extension is symbolized in the archetype of Taurus.

That Mars, Lucifer, and S.Node of Lilath is opposed her Neptune, and both square her Lunar Nodal Axis, as does Neptune, the ruler of her N.Node. These symbols correlate to her 'attractions' to others who are considered as some sort of 'icon', Pisces, Neptune, the 12th House archetypes, by society itself. By forming relationships in this way she then fulfills her desires for social power, status, and her inner ambition to make that happen.

She has done this by using her own resources, Taurus, to attract and form the relationships she needs to actualize those desires. Relative to that Mars, Lucifer, S.Node of Lilath conjunction opposed by Neptune that resource has been her own body, her own sexuality. She has had other lives for example where she has been a courtesan to those in social power including Kings and Queens. So her Soul desired to be born into bodies that where judged to be extremely beautiful and sexual so that she could then attract the types of Souls that would serve as the vehicles to actualize her own desires and needs.

Relative to her Mercury conjunct Venus/Lucifer/and Mars/S.Node of Lilath in Gemini this has caused her to be duplicit in her relationships with others, telling others what she felt/ feels they neede to hear, in order to fulfill her own desires. This duplicity has then  manifested in all kinds of behavioral ways, and of course the causative dynamic in which she has attracted others who could be called 'silver tongue devils' who were/are full of their own duplicity. This is the cause of her attracting something like Trump who of course was fucking, oops, other women while being 'married' to her.

Of course she has been into total denial, Virgo, of her own reality, her own truth. Quite the opposite: she has set herself to be a 'victim' of those that she has formed relationships with in order to actualize her desires: Virgo. This is the 'why', Helena, of her Neptune and Jupiter being at zero in Sagittarius and Scorpio. In essence one of her 'skipped steps' is to stop being in denial of her own dynamics, and the reality she is responsible for creating by becoming totally honest with her truth, and the inner psychology within her that creates that actual truth. In that way she then recovers those skipped steps. The zero degrees of Neptune and Jupiter means that this is the first life that her Soul has created in order for that to happen.

With her N.Node being in Pisces, the ruler of that Neptune, and conjunct Trump's N.Node of Lucifer which is in his 7th House we can  see yet again the 'icon' she has attracted again to fulfill her desires for social status and power. When she met Trump she was making not very much money by being a model who was trying to sell her own cosmetics. So by marrying him she went from that to being a vicarious extension of a billionaire, and the entire life shift for her this created.  

Trump's N.Node of Lucifer is ruled by his 2nd House Neptune which conjuncts her Uranus in Libra, and Pluto in Virgo. That Uranus is ruled by her Venus which, again, is conjunct her Lucifer, Mars, and S.Node of Lilath. For him she is nothing more that a beautiful possession: a trophy wife. We can also see in these symbols the underlying Soul/ emotional, and psychological detachment she has from him because this is not a relationship based on actual or true love for either of them. It is a, to use Trump's psychology, a 'transactional' relationship for them both. They don't sleep in the same room or bed with one another, and Trump even locks the door that separates their two rooms at night.

TRANSACTIONAL DYNAMICS ARE THE VERY BREEDING GROUND THROUGH WHICH 'FAUSTIAN DEALS' ARE MADE.

Check this: Body language experts have hilarious takes on the ‘distant pained’ marriage of the Trumps.. https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/body-language-experts-hilarious-takes-distant-pained-marriage-trumps/

Distorted Lilath indeed for Melania. The danger in this life is that her Soul will become so 'addicted' to the type of lifestyle she has because of Trump, all the recognition of her Soul has and is attracting to itself because of this, that she will go ahead a make an actual contract with Evil, Lucifer, in order to keep having this for as long as her Soul lives in this and other lives.

Her N.Node of Lilath is 9 Capricorn conjunct her Moon. Relative to the resolution of the distorted Lilath how would/ could this manifest ?

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 03, 2019, 11:46 AM
Maybe I'm feeling giddy this morning but the image/reality of Trump locking his bedroom door against Melania is giving me giggle fits! What's the poor boy afraid of anyway?

With NN Lillith conjunct Moon, 9th Cap: the positive reality would be for her to take responsibility, speak/be/walk the talk of the truth of who she is. The likelihood of that is slim: she could take the first steps though...that will take lifetimes to 'correct'.

Fact is: she wants the social standing, and has used others, manipulated others, lied etc to gain that 'power' and social standing: she does what she wants, acts how she wants, has adulation, etc & etc

She has used her Lillith rage to create realities that SHE wants, no matter the toll to others. She cannot see herself as she really is: she justifies her needs and wants & feels she 'deserves' them, because she is 'better'  

The soul has evolved the current ego to further her negative Lillith agenda -
instead of being truthful(9th): she will lie
instead of taking responsibility(Cap.): she will blame others and play victim
instead of showing compassion to others(moon): she will trample them down & gloat at her superiority

She has a choice to see her behavior and change: be honest, take responsibility and understand we are all created equal....but, I am not real optimistic she will: she simply - like her jacket said: doesn't care

Does the 9th rule contracts, or is it 3rd/gemini?

Here/there I've heard people say they 'feel sorry' for her, or sorta give her a pass, etc. on Trump: what I don't say, but think is: "Melania married Trump for a reason: and it's not because she was in love with him."

I do see her as a thorn to him: thus locking the door.

If she is so close to a contract herself: I see her as being very very angry that Trump even became president: she married him for the perks, money, power, famous friends, etc.
Here Trump is: the one who made the contract...to her, he may be 'failing' her and what she agreed to by becoming president: he is having all of his 'empire' and lies fall down around him. It's possible his fortune will be lost, the family name worthless. Then where will she be? She is incredibly angry about all this...Guess we'll see how it all plays out...
Trump was sorta her 'god' which is to say 'demon': and he's failing her...maybe why his door is locked!!!
Of course this could lead her going to the 'real deal': evil itself, then she won't need the middle man

Also: I had mentioned she had an 'inhuman' look...in the folklore of the 'fae' folk they frequently had what was called 'glamour': they could put up a shield, make themselves appear to other than they are: to dazzle....reminds me of her

(edit here: I thought this week I would lose internet, probably next week: just saying as I know sometimes there is a wait for others to post: if you don't hear from me: I don't have internet: just FYI, thanks)


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 03, 2019, 12:31 PM
Hi All,

Rad thank you for posting this extreme example of a distorted Lilith in Gemini in Melania Trump.

We have quite a spirited dialogue going with respect to what we are all witnessing in living, breathing color on the world stage.

Her story is a reminder that life and evolution is about choices. Even her choice making planet, MARS, is in GEMINI, which restates her instinct for duplicity. There is always a shadow behind her smile.

Nerissa, contracts is Saturn/Capricorn.

You wrote
Maybe I'm feeling giddy this morning but the image/reality of Trump locking his bedroom door against Melania is giving me giggle fits! What's the poor boy afraid of anyway?

There are symbols that reflect past lives of him being stabbed in his sleep or when he least expected it by a woman. Yes, I agree that she is not as powerless as she appears to some. At the very least his throat has been slit when he didn't see it coming.

Those Cancer symbols in the 11th reflect his PTSD along these lines and the element of surprise.

***

Rad spoke of the danger of her addictions to a lavish lifestyle and where that can lead. Yes, her Lucifer in Gemini conjunct her Venus in Taurus inconjunct her Jupiter Rx in Scorpio speaks of this weak link of her obsession for the material world and true gluttony within it.

It does appear that she got way more than she ever bargained for in becoming First Lady. It was the last thing she ever wanted or thought could happen. She had a look of horror and shock after Trump won and it took a long time (was it a year?) to leave NY and move into the White House. There is nothing about that post that she enjoys except the title although it forces her to PRETEND (Neptune sq the nodes) that she loves him yet it is clear she is repulsed by the man.

Her Neptune and Jupiter being at zero in Sagittarius and Scorpio is like waking up from a nightmare, yet the nightmare is real. She looks miserable. It can only be this misery that makes her stop and ask herself if any of it is worth it.

Her Neptune Rx, ruler of her NN, is in Sagittarius and moving INTO a square to her Nodes at the 10 degree mark, so the degree of disillusionment linked with power and fame is only beginning. This Neptune opposes a stunning stellium along these lines: Mars in Gemini, SN of Lilith in Gemini, Lucifer Venus, and Mercury in Taurus. Also, her North Node of Lilith and the Moon in Capricorn natally square Uranus in Libra.

These symbols also reflect the possibility of her losing EVERYTHING due to a dethroning of Trump as a result of his financial corruption.

~Kristin

P.S.
Rad you asked
Her N.Node of Lilath is 9 Capricorn conjunct her Moon. Relative to the resolution of the distorted Lilath how would/ could this manifest ?

In its purest form for the resolution of the distortion of NN of Lilith in Capricorn conjunct would be for her to take responsibility for the life she creates and to use her position of authority to empower women. I will allow space for others to say more.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 03, 2019, 01:38 PM
Wow, Kristin! Yikes, about that @ Trump fearing his throat cut in the night. Guess he does have reason to fret.
I posted earlier: Melania is what he deserves....

Thanks: I thought Jupiter would be contracts, or even Mercury.....

I agree: Trump's downfall will be her crossroads moment....

Also: how do we find asteroid motion relative to other planets - for instance, I thought they'd be slower than Pluto, but appears some at least are quicker: re: Lucifer for instance....
Do most asteroids have a consistent relative motion to the other planets? Generally true most of them are quicker relative to, say, Pluto?
Asking to understand phasal relationships between the planets.....thanks


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 03, 2019, 02:44 PM
Hi Nerissa,

When I said contracts were Saturn/Capricorn, I was referring to the enforcement of contracts and the legal obligations within them. The contract of itself is actually SCORPIO.

You wrote:

Do most asteroids have a consistent relative motion to the other planets? Generally true most of them are quicker relative to, say, Pluto? Asking to understand phasal relationships between the planets


Yes.

Most asteroids sit in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter and so their motion or orbit tends to range between 3-5 years.  Asteroid Lilith is 4-5 years.

They are always faster than the outer planets.

The Nodes motion of Asteroid Lilith are not consistent which is why the Nodes are not 180 degrees apart as we see with the Lunar Nodes.

~Kristin






Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 03, 2019, 03:14 PM
Hi All,

Kristin, that is strong information of trump having that kind of death(?) in the past. When Rad asks what the possibilities are on the nn Lilith symbol at 9 Cap, i see right away that symbol sitting right on top of trump's pallas and opposite his mercury in the 11th, square his neptune, juno, chiron, jupiter in the 2nd. Are these symbols also referring to this?
I was trying to follow on the posts and also trying to make sense for myself of all the information. Nerissa, i do see your point in that she does not signed or likes the job she has now..
Although in this case i think Melania differs from trump in the degree of damage both of them do or can do to others. And that would be the difference between making the contact and flirting with it.
She can do some damage to him, but i don't see her hurt more then close others and disappoint trump supporters. At least in this life her degree of influence if quite limited, also one of evil tactics. It's when people sink down and feel powerless that that sort of temptations appear. In her case, she kind of got to the top of the pyramid in the context of what her beliefs allow her to, from an extreme distorted lilith perspective in an extreme patriarchal scenario. Her Lucifer is on her sn lilith in gemini. She has certainly felt powerless, then the temptations of using tactics to get more power, in her case power over information and misrepresentation, like Rad mentioned, mercury, SN ruler on all those planets and sn lilith, being the symbol of lying to please others and being lied to at the same time. Cunning might be the word.

If we see the chart with the focus on her distorted/resolution female roots, it's difficult to see anything other but this going down and very dark before or even if it gets better, so i will do a proposal more on the imaginary side...
With her nn lilith in Capricorn conjunct natal moon, she has the possibility to restore her female roots based on the complete restructuring of her own sense of authority when she develops INNER SECURITY. Inner Security for her, means she has to renounce all she has accomplished so far relative to her marriage to someone like trump, this renouncement creating the necessary detachment to acknowledge the reasons, emotional and psychologically, to be there in the first place. For example to recognise the fact that this was a marriage based on gaining what she thought she could not give from herself to herself so she went out to get it from him, even when she felt repulsed by the consequences of it as seen in the fake smile (and as i writing this i am also seeing these events as her own self-undermining/virgo).
It will also mean that she will suffer significant trauma and wound in this process relative to her relationships and mostly her relationship to her son. This is nn lilith/moon t-square uranus in libra/ceres and chiron in aries. This trauma will also correlate to she getting older and less attractive at same time this is happening, so a complete change of her self image/wound to the physical body image. This sort of trauma is necessary from an evolutionary point of view because of the skipped steps resolution concerning seeing the truth beyond any illusion she has been setting for herself. I would not see that as becoming immediately inner secure to carry on by her own means, that why this process could be very long, nonetheless just start getting rid of the junk will get things ending so they can re-start at some point. Neptune retrograde at 0 degrees can certainly make this look like an never ending process from the point of view of the soul and since nn lilith is conjunct moon that recovery will also concern the mother/son relationship and archetypally to her giving birth to a new self.

In the imaginary proposal i was alluding to she has in fact the possibility to turn the story upside down. In that nn lilith on trump's pallas and all those oppositions and squares, no wonder he locks the door, because she can speak. She knows secrets and he might have locked the door too late. Her Kassandra being on his pluto confirms this too, although he will certainly try to make everyone doubt her. Again if she tells what she knows she might lose her position, money and status but she can turn the victim into the hero if her desires reflect purity of intentions  in getting rid of it all, she can be empowered by her own roots and empower other women as Kristin mentions, at least from a soul point of view. Again probably fantasy given the context, but who knows?

Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 04, 2019, 09:32 AM
Hi Helena,

The locked bedroom door is more about the 'King's' fear of being assassinated or poisoned by someone. I will have Rad speak more to that.

You wrote:

With her nn lilith in Capricorn conjunct natal moon, she has the possibility to restore her female roots based on the complete restructuring of her own sense of authority when she develops INNER SECURITY. Inner Security for her, means she has to renounce all she has accomplished so far relative to her marriage to someone like trump, this renouncement creating the necessary detachment to acknowledge the reasons, emotional and psychologically, to be there in the first place. For example to recognize the fact that this was a marriage based on gaining what she thought she could not give from herself to herself so she went out to get it from him, even when she felt repulsed by the consequences of it as seen in the fake smile

Yes, imagine the challenge of starting all over again yet with NN of Lilith in Capricorn, she has been learning how to be in a man's world, she has been learning how to play the game, so she does know more than a thing or two now. To become her own inner authority is key. She has gained a great deal of leverage and we know this because when she wants something, she appears to get it.

It all comes down to what anything is worth to a Soul and for her something has to mean enough that she finally 'sees the light'. With her SN of the Moon in Virgo, she does not what it feels like to have nothing and to be nothing, or to feel like she will never amount to anything. I am wondering if those memories will ever lead to compassion, NN in Pisces, versus where things stand now.

Yes, hmmm...to turn the story upside down. She has already done that once. She was able to go from rags to riches. She can take those riches now and do something substantial with it. She surely can, but will she?

~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 04, 2019, 09:54 AM
Hi All,

US NEWS BRIEF

Nancy Pelosi just regained Speaker of the House yesterday and reclaimed the gavel.
49 women gained seats, 48 of which were DEMOCRATS.

I feel a new wind blowing with Uranus retrograde at the tail end of Aries. Uranus stations direct in Aries on Monday, Jan.7. Prepare for a sea change of energy.

Nancy Pelosi is going to be 79 this year and she shows the men again why 'She's Boss'.

Pelosi's Original Lilith in 28 Cancer and it is conjunct PLUTO in Leo, she is nurturing the BLUE WAVE and the message that so many American want to hear. Her voice will be critical now to make the emotional and psychological shifts that this world needs.

She said, "We aren't building a wall, that's not who we are."

With her North Node of Lilith at 9 degrees of Capricorn, she has been and will be going toe to toe with Trump. She is a woman in a man's world and she is in charge again.

Her NN of Lilith is in Capricorn (just like Melania) a vivid example of how these energies can play out in light and in shadow.

Look at the image of our FUTURE ~ Minorities and Women.
GOP strategist freaks out that Dem majority ‘looks like our future’ while GOP ‘looks like a board meeting’ from the 1950s.

A new wind is indeed blowing!

~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: dollydaydream on Jan 04, 2019, 11:13 AM
Hi everyone, thank you for all the posts especially the ones about Lilith.  I can see I have a lot to catch up on.  I just read the posts about Melania Trump and I started to reflect on the Taurus archetype.  In her case I wonder if a great emptiness within her (Pluto/Virgo and SN/Virgo) is contributing to her overcompensating by filling up that emptiness with excessive materialism, resulting in an addiction to the luxe lifestyle.   Surely living a lie just to feed an addiction must be adding to the guilt she is already experiencing within her soul.  With her Venus in Taurus I am curious as to why her basic survival instinct has not trumped (ahem) her desire for a fancy lifestyle.  Is she not aware of her husband's allegiance to Satan?  If she is, it is stunning to think she is suppressing her survival instinct to live with someone so absolutely dangerous just so she can be materially gratified.  Or is she in denial about his satanism?  I also wonder why, if she is so attracted to that kind of lifestyle, she does not make the effort to make it happen on her own through Taurus self-effort.  Taurus laziness perhaps?  Virgo deep feelings of inadequacy?  Maybe both.  A practicing addict will do anything for their fix until someone intervenes or the light breaks through.  Let's hope that light does break through for Mrs. T. 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 04, 2019, 02:55 PM
Hi Helena,

Trump in certain prior lives has been murdered 'unexpectedly' in different ways, For example, in the life when he was the 1st Italian King, Odoacer, he met up with a Germain King who had defeated him in a battle for a dinner. At that dinner, in the German King's place, his throat was slit by that King 'unexpectedly'. He dies and his last words were 'where is God'.

With his Lucifer, Venus, and Saturn in Cancer in the 11th, ruled by his 4th House Moon in Sagittarius with the Lunar South Node and the S.Node of Uranus, these sudden, cataclysmic, traumatic events occurred in environments that he thought he could trust including family environments. These are ruled by his 2nd House Jupiter/ Neptune conjunction in Libra which is conjunct his S.Node of Mars. This is Melania's natal Uranus.

In other lives he has been poisoned, killed in his sleep with a knife, and another had his genitals mutilated where he ended up bleeding to death.

This sort of stuff is symbolized by his Mars in Leo in the 12th.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 05, 2019, 06:25 AM
Hi DDD,

In her case I wonder if a great emptiness within her (Pluto/Virgo and SN/Virgo) is contributing to her overcompensating by filling up that emptiness with excessive materialism, resulting in an addiction to the luxery lifestyle.  Surely living a lie just to feed an addiction must be adding to the guilt she is already experiencing within her soul.

Yes, this is true. But remember too she is in the 3rd state consensus evolutionary state.

 With her Venus in Taurus I am curious as to why her basic survival instinct has not trumped (ahem) her desire for a fancy lifestyle.

It is in fact that very survival instinct that has lead to exactly what she has and is doing by way of actualizing her desire for power and social status, and all the wealth that comes with it.

 Is she not aware of her husband's allegiance to Satan?

No, she is not. She does not have that awareness at all. And remember too that those who have made a contract with Lucifer do all they can to hide it with the assistance  of Lucifer itself.

I also wonder why, if she is so attracted to that kind of lifestyle, she does not make the effort to make it happen on her own through Taurus self-effort.  Taurus laziness perhaps?  Virgo deep feelings of inadequacy?  Maybe both.

Remember her Mercury in Taurus, the ruler of her Lunar S.Node in Virgo, is conjunct Lucifer in Gemini with her Mars, and S.Node of Lilath. The 'influence' of Evil/Lucifer manifesting as the very desires, Mars, that has set in motion the lives that have lead to being Mrs. Trump. An example of the type of 'thought', Mercury, that this influence creates in her consciousness is the thought 'you are bigger than this', or 'you can be bigger than this', or 'you are so much more than this'.  These types of thoughts manifesting relative to her life conditions that she has tried to create on her own that are so much more limited or small as compared to the types of lives that others in social power, status, and wealth have. This life itself reflects this because of her own efforts to make a living as a model selling her own cosmetics which was very limited as compared to becoming Mrs. Trump.

Understanding all this we can now understand too why her natal Lilath is conjunct Trump's 10th House Sun, Lunar North Node, and Uranus. In essence her current Lilath reflecting her existing distortions creates a dynamic wherein in Trump is a 'perfect', Lunar South Node in Virgo, vehicle for her to satisfy and actualize her Lucifer induced desires for the great social power, status, and wealth that she currently, and in previous lives, has now, and has had before.

Her natal Lilath is in opposition to his natal Lilath in Sagittarius conjunct his Moon, Lunar South Node, and the S.Node of Uranus. One of the ways this manifested in their past is when she was pregnant with Baron and of course Trump was appalled at how her body then changed to something 'gross', from his point of view, and demanded she recover how her body looked before she was pregnant after Baron was born. And, of course, he got involved with other women, a Playboy model and a professional adult porn star, at that very time.

His Lilath in Sagittarius in the 4th conjunct his Moon, Lunar South Node, the S.Node of Uranus, and opposed his natal Uranus/Sun correlates to his rebellion against all natural women: the natural women. This is one of the reasons too of why he requires the women in his life to have un-natural breasts. He nees them to look like volley balls so that requires artificial surgery to make that happen. Melania was not allowed to breast feed in own child because of this.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: dollydaydream on Jan 06, 2019, 07:26 AM
Hi Rad, thanks for responding in the way you did to my questions.  Having these answers helps a lot in understanding the symbols.  I could ask further questions but want to try to figure them out on my own.  One thing I had not considered was the relative lack of awareness of self-deception implied in the consensus state in certain soul and life conditions.  Thanks also to Kristin and everyone else for this valuable thread on Lilith.   Namaste, DDD


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 06, 2019, 05:41 PM
Well - this is pretty interesting: I keep looking at this opposition from Trumps moon/lillith to this sun/nn/uranus in 10th gemini

I think his evolving ego is in opposition to his 'mission' - he is in denial (Aquarius on the 6th, Uranus conjunct that sun/nn) of his mission of inducing trauma...yet, the trauma he creates he revels in, within a very bizarre sado/masochistic manner....

He overcompensates - Jupiter ruling that moon, with these ideas of him being 'man of the people', eating (4th house) and the narcissism: Jupiter ruling the 5th....

He is indeed attracted to & identifies with the negative lillith: the rage, the vindictive behaviors: again, a very bizzare reality of sado/masochistic behavoirs...

Trump cannot and will not see who he really is: that moon opposite the 'mission' (sun/nn/uranus)....however one of his 'gifts' via evil could be that ability: to appear other than what he is....from the get-go people would say: 'oh he doesn't mean that' 'oh, he's just being 'tough'' 'he's just a maverick'  NOPE   

And the ruler of the moon/lillith: in the second with chiron and neptune - ruler venus, with saturn, cancer, 11th...to be honest: so much information there, hard to 'download' ;)
But, just how he 'stuffs his face' with food - taurus as comfort...value, the mother (cancer sign)

Also the trauma - cancer venus, saturn & lucifer in the 11th......squaring those libra planets: a childish soothing himself because of traumas, past life traumas: but soothing himself via the recognition of what he has done: the contract with evil

He wants to remain a child & act like he is simple, straight forward: so you cannot blame him....& that is how so many have taken him: 'he means well' etc

To be honest: looking at this chart: I do feel like it's 'download overload'.....I think I'll try to get thoughts together more coherently: I was going to make a simple thing about that moon - but, as with all charts: you tug one thread & it all unravels...wasn't prepared for that....

Thank you to all who are posting, your thoughts, insights.
Thanks Kristin - for guiding us!
And thank you Rad for knowledge we would otherwise not have


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 08, 2019, 11:46 AM
Hi Kristin, Rad, All,

Kristin, really great to see Nancy Pelosi chart with NN lilith at the exact same degree than that of Melania, thank you for sharing this. That NN lilith is opposite chiron, and this chiron is square the nodal axis. Do you see this a possible symbol of throwing off many many emotional wounds, crucial part of the skipped step resolution, relative to her own power and establishing her authority as a voice for women on restoring the application of natural law relative to the feminine, lilith also in cancer, scorpio moon? She does have jupiter conjunct the resolution node plus all that aries fire ruled by mars conjunct vesta, venus and uranus in taurus. Again a great counterpoint to the distorted taurus expressed by Melania's soul. A real example of perseverance in standing for what's right, for as long as it takes.

I kept thinking these last days, don't know if anyone has written on this i imagine so, on how chiron wounds could archetypally relate to the masculine polarity in all of us. I could be bias because my natal chiron is in aries. Anyhow i say this proposing that in a sense, the core wounding is in respect to all those parts in us that had to separate from the feminine in order for the species to evolve.  And the difficulty and pain this represented and keeps representing in our evolution, wether we are male or female, and all distortions for the male and female origins within this process.
I first started making this association reflecting on the teachings of the Jung psychologist James Hollis relative "the wounding and healing of men" as he puts it and how these wounds are part of the masculine path, well integrated in indigenous cultures by the elders in rites of passage, and how distortions of the male energy occur when this process was/is denied instead of integrated since the loss of our origins. The process of denial representing the history of patriarchy itself. This occurring originally as consequence of the need for separation and transcendence of the initial merging with the feminine experienced through the mother.
Independently of how well this process goes for women and men, wounding could be significantly more powerful for men because women will need to actualise from their original nature/mother and men need to separate from it, at least in part. Don't know if this makes sense and i'm sure could lead to many roads...
Coincidently, after writing this i ended up checking chiron's appearance chart, 1977, and in that chart the moon at 9 degrees capricorn (NN lilith degree for Melania and Nancy) is square the nodal axis and pluto, lilith in aquarius is in exact square to chiron in taurus and still in opposition to mars in cancer.
It maybe a coincidence but we could make the point, not diverging much from the purposes of this thread, and pose some questions relative to how the masculine polarity, as a healthy and necessary expression, is a very significant part for the restoration of the female original roots, women developing it in themselves and in the social roles they represent, as well how this could open the field for equal necessary balance in men healing their wounds and positive integration of the feminine. No gender over the other and the end of expectations towards distorted gender roles.
Both women and men have lost access to their original natures and in result of considerable wounds so i see this making a bit of sense at least.

Rad, this most likely ends up going in direction to all that you shared on melania and trump's charts. Them being the exact opposite of what healthy integration and restoring mean. Thank you for all that information we could not have otherwise, i imagine you don't have an easy 'job' because just thinking about any possible solution for this gave me a light head and absolutely no mental energy... It was clear to me that things are as they are and there is only so much we can hope, although i'll share some thoughts.
I cannot help to acknowledge how the feminine is tremendously powerful of course, even in distorted expression and how trump's soul evolution can show just that relative to castration and the feeling of powerlessness. Can i ask if he had already made the contract when he died saying 'where is God'? I take no?
Women can be indeed very negatively powerful relative to the psyche of men and i failed to see that in Melania because of the pretense reality in which she lives and with who she shares her existence with, but i see it is exactly what she might have been in the context of the realities her soul has been creating, taking also from her SN mars/Sn uranus connection in his lilith/sn uranus/moon conjunction, that squaring her nodal axis. She might carry a lot of guilty with all the virgo placements and then keep going, with all the taurus. Even her pluto in the last degrees of virgo denote a sub-influence of taurus. Maintaing the status quo in the box at all costs. JWG, in the Pluto II book on the archetype of taurus and relationship essential needs, teaches "The sign of Taurus will be somewhere in the birth chart, and Venus will be in a house and sign, making its own aspects. In combination, these symbols correlate with how an individual can learn this vital lesson of self-sufficiency."
We could underline here the necessary learning. We do not come to life most of the times with our relationship with ourselves in place, so to speak. Actually i take from JWG's words that much of the relationship we have with ourselves is about learning who we really are and what are our unique resources by ourselves first. With SN lilith in gemini, if this learning is not aligned with natural law, Sagittarius, and with the soul's personal truth, it is all about unlearning from this source and that, borrowing, all that it is not. And this could be the case of Melania's soul and the danger for any soul avoiding to learn more about itself from the inside first.
It is vital we Learn, probably with trial and error seems like more unlearning then learning :-) taking all the distortions. To take the opportunity of south node moon in capricorn over the nodes of pluto/saturn, and jupiter in sagittarius, and make it a time to let go any borrowed old structure and let in the ones that honour our roots seems a good idea in any case..

Thank you also to everyone contributing to thread, Nerissa, Stacie, Ari, hi DDD! and Heather hope we can hear from you soon,
Helena

P.S. Just for reference, the chiron chart mentioned is the one used by Melanie Reinhart, first chiron appearance on photographic plate, October 18th 1977.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 09, 2019, 06:04 AM
Hi Helena,

Trump made his contract with Lucifer just after his last life. So this is the first life in which he has gained the 'super natural' powers that come from that contract.

Relative to the wounds to men and women that you are pondering about, Chiron, remember that all that started once humans began to construct artificial beliefs versus the Natural Laws that are the very root of the manifest Creation in the first place. This began, again, when humans started to become sedentary relative to it's long history of being nomadic in nature. That began to happen when humans learned to cultivate seeds and learned how to breed animals for their own purposes. This was around 7,200 B.C.E. So all the accumulating wounds since that time originate from that time.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13 AM
Hi Helena,

That NN lilith is opposite chiron, and this chiron is square the nodal axis. Do you see this a possible symbol of throwing off many many emotional wounds, crucial part of the skipped step resolution, relative to her own power and establishing her authority as a voice for women on restoring the application of natural law relative to the feminine, lilith also in cancer, Scorpio moon?

Yes, I see this Chiron in Cancer squaring the Nodes, as her being silenced by men, there are many wounds around not being heard or taken seriously. Her Pluto in Leo is also forming a disseminating square to Saturn in Taurus, nearly to the minute.  Her Mercury Rx in Pisces opposing her Neptune in Virgo, and the asteroid Kassandra is Rx in Scorpio and and is conjunct her Moon. Metaphorically it's like she was locked up in a room and they threw away the key. So yes, she has come to recover her voice and her power as a woman in the world, not just for her but for those who do not have a voice or a platform to speak.

Pelosi has also been through some gender switch so she could learn for herself how to operate like a man, which is why this woman does so well in a man's world. She is un-phased. Did you see her in the Oval Office how she took on Trump?

She also has Pallas Athene in Cancer conjunct her Original Lilith, these two symbols sextile her Uranus, Venus and Mars in Taurus, which explains her ability to out-wit her male opponent.

how the masculine polarity, as a healthy and necessary expression, is a very significant part for the restoration of the female original roots, women developing it in themselves and in the social roles they represent, as well how this could open the field for equal necessary balance in men healing their wounds and positive integration of the feminine. No gender over the other and the end of expectations towards distorted gender roles.

I agree, so much of the wounding on our planet is a result of imbalance of gender ie. male dominance and the suppression of the natural power of the feminine. Also when the male energy is distorted in a woman and where that can lead.

Women like Pelosi, as well as the other 49 women in the US who just earned political posts are giving other women the courage to step into more masculine revered roles in society. This will also remind men of the vital necessity for gender healing. By integrating both genders equally, we maximize the whole.

Peace,
Kristin

P.S. Fascinating about the first appearance of Chiron's chart ~ says it all!


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 10, 2019, 11:31 AM
Hey All,

So we would like to move forward in developing this thread and our understanding of the Lilith archetype.

For this next step, we would like you to discuss the Cancer Archetype as we look at the South Node of Lilith in Cancer in this context. We will discuss distortions and Resolutions in the posts that follow. For now, simply discuss the Cancer Archetype itself in relation to a South Node of Lilith: the NATURAL ARCHETYPE OF CANCER.

Remember that whatever the sign that the South Node of Lilith is in is how that Soul was trying to actualize the inherent archetypes of Lilith before. The point is that any given soul, in whatever lifetime, has a past and present life and has chosen an archetype to do that through relative to their ongoing ea journey.

I will post an example in the next few days but wanted to give you a head's up so you could be thinking about it.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 11, 2019, 04:23 AM
Rad, Kristin

Thank you for your answers. Rad, after reading i remembered you already mentioned this right when trump was elected i think, so my apologies for asking again. In his case we can very well see the implications of competition frame of mind versus cooperation and were it leads to in an extreme.
I understand what you mean. Chiron wounds tend to be hard to define in general, there are many viewpoints, but makes sense to me from this perspective and the times your refer. Now chiron will go into aries and all the capricorn being transited, i tend to see them as a very important layer, referring to the masculine polarity/integration, from all we've been discussing relative to lilith and the feminine and moon's NN in cancer. The inherent strength of courageous vulnerability that many are already bringing forth, like the many women's movements showing their bodies as they naturally are without shame for not fitting standards, actually quite the opposite, with proudness and sensuality for not fitting them.

Kristin, sorry if i am a bit late here as we are moving into the next step in the thread, but i just wish also to thank you too for your views on Nancy Pelosi's chart, it's a great example and i agree with you that she is one of the few people we have seen publicly and live in direct opposition to trump standing for her truth! What always impresses me the most when i see it is the firm standing people need to have to stand near evil itself. And in her case definitely lilith/pallas/pluto ruled by sun aries, moon scorpio. In EA we have the bigger picture, hard for this picture to go mainstream :-), but i think everyone feels a natural repulsion. One thing i think would be really cool is for someone to do a documentary on what felt like, body sensations, on meeting the current president of the United States. All these leaders that for better or good are not evil, what did they felt like? Would be great to watch.
Also Kristin, this might be a bit unrelated, but you are the only astrologer i have heard in other occasions mentioning the kite pattern that i don't know much about. Pelosi has this pattern very strongly emphasised, could you speak a bit about it?

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 11, 2019, 09:33 AM
Hi Helena,

A Kite in flight rises above the Earth, it rises above where it has been and it has the ability to climb in altitude with the help of the wind due of its shape.

If a chart has this pattern, notice the planets or asteroids that sit at each point of the kite. In Pelosi's case, she has Uranus, Venus, Vesta and Mars in Taurus all at the tip of her kite. This speaks to her focus for democracy and her fight for what is fair for the people. Her Scorpio Moon is at the tail representing a woman who has come to get her power back and to bring the power of who she was in the past forward.

She has Pallas Athene and Lilith at one point with the North Node of Pluto and North Node of Saturn in Cancer and on the other point, she has Mercury retrograde in Pisces, reflecting themes of recovering her voice as a woman and being a voice for the masses in America.

The Kite reflects an energy of support, seen in the Grand Trine and two sextiles, to actualize these intentions, which she has manifested through her determination and her efforts.

Of course we need to start with the Pluto paradigm and notice that the ruler of her South Node, Mars, is balsalmic to the ruler of her North Node, Venus and they sit at the tip of her kite. She has reached impressive heights with her work already. She has clearly, even in this life, risen above where she has been.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 11, 2019, 11:49 AM
Hi All,

Just came across this image from an article about how Fear is abused in politics. I was taken by it in terms of what we have been working on here in this Lilith thread. It reminds me of Pelosi's chart with respect to these themes of being silenced in her past lives which I shared in a prior post.

In essence though, this is image reflects an archetype for what has occurred for women everywhere for thousands of years.  Capricorn Man having Control over the Cancer Woman, ultimately leading to her not having a voice.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: dollydaydream on Jan 12, 2019, 08:42 AM
Hi Kristin, I agree that image says it all.  It immediately reminded me of that part of Christie Blasey Ford's testimony in front of that lineup of white republican men when she described Brett Kavanaugh putting his hand over her mouth to stop her from screaming for help while he was sexually assaulting her.  That man now sits on the Supreme Court. DDD


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 12, 2019, 11:17 AM
Hi All,

Here are a few excellent moves that perfectly reflect this trinity we are working on with Lilith: Original, Distorted, and the Resolution, within context of these times.

DISOBEDIENCE

A woman returns to her Orthodox Jewish community that shunned her for her attraction to a female childhood friend. Once back, their passions reignite as they explore the boundaries of faith and sexuality.

https://www.amazon.com/Disobedience-Rachel-Weisz/dp/B07CLGLPJ3/ref=sr_1_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1547310488&sr=1-1&keywords=the+movie+disobedience+prime+video
 
You can get it from Netflix too

SAMI'S BLOOD
 
Sami blood.. 1930s Sweden. 14-year-old Sami girl Elle Marja and her sister are torn from their indigenous reindeer-herding family and placed in a government-run boarding school. There Elle dreams of education, of a future, only to find herself classed as racially inferior. When she attempts to escape one world of prejudice and another of old traditions, she learns the true cost of freedom.

Sami Blood .. prime video .. amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Blood-English-Subtitled-Cecilia-Sparrok/dp/B079C1396D/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1547310295&sr=8-6&keywords=the+movie+sami+blood+prime+video
 
You can get it too from Netflix.
  

~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 12, 2019, 03:13 PM
Greetings All,

We are now at our next step and will be discussing the Archetype of Cancer as we begin to explore the South Node of Lilith in Cancer. Please read through what I have shared and ask any questions if you wish. Please then fill in whatever you feel I have missed and develop this archetype through your own feeling lens.

We will discuss the distorted and the Resolution for South Node of Lilith in Cancer in a separate post.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


The Natural Archetype of CANCER: Self-Knowledge through the Emotional Body

The Dalai Lama says he considers himself a feminist and would like to see more women leaders because he thinks women are often innately more sensitive and peaceful. “I insist that women should carry a more active role,” he said. “If eventually most of the leaders of different nations are female, maybe we’ll be safer.”
 
The South Node of Lilith in Cancer Soul has been learning how to first cultivate that feeling of safety within herself. She has known to be wet behind the ears, especially as it relates to her emotional development. She is a woman who was ready to take a dive into her emotional body and inwardly rise up within herself through her own efforts. She has a high degree of emotional vulnerability and she has been learning to find a way to feel safe enough and inwardly strong enough in the world on her own as a woman. It’s not enough to talk about it now, she wants to feel it in full, and what it means to be a woman in every way.
 
She is learning to minimize emotional dependencies so she can establish more security within herself. This requires her to feel all the way through whatever emotion arises on her own so she can find strength in this space. Yet much of life will be testing her growth at every turn for the tides will push her into vulnerable corners that she herself will be responsible to crawl out from within. The South Node of Cancer/ 4th house is a cardinal archetype and thus represents a chapter is closing, and a new evolutionary chapter is birthing itself.
 
Because of the new, these Souls will be highly emotionally vulnerable and inwardly wobbly in the world until a total state of emotional self security is realized. In essence, she has been learning how to walk emotionally, similar to a baby taking its first steps, so her growth will become a two steps forward, one step back process. Because Cancer/Capricorn connects to gender, it may also be that in prior lives this woman was a man and is learning now to develop the other side of gender in order to balance both sides in full.
 
If not, then the evolutionary intent is to access the natural inner male and integrate it within her ongoing actualization of her own femininity. The evolutionary intent is to become equally male and female and to cultivate both sides of the whole. Another reason for the insecurity may be due to not feeling at home in this new gender, hormones included, especially given how patriarchal cultures have defined masculinity and femininity.
 
She knows that the only way to evolve is to get naked and enter the river of emotion, which equals letting go of the mind and allowing the water to lead her more deeply into her tender center. Cancer initiates the water trinity that opens emotional channels into the Soul, and then further into her connection to Spirit. She wants to feel a direct connection to the Mother, and the oneness of her origins, which reflects the law of duality and her need to return to the safety of the womb. The cardinal archetype naturally wants to initiate and to explore but she will experience a frequent swing between the extremes of the desire to separate and the desire to return: to go home. Her reaction to the freedom of what was set in motion, and a need to immediately return is a result of her need to feel safe and secure.
 
South Node of Lilith in Cancer wants to feed and feel that union with the Whole. She is learning the fastest way to experience wholeness, and her own holiness, is through the act of surrender; surrendering to the emotional current, the full YIN experience that will lead her back home to herself, and back to the sea. She is learning to gain the inner strength to enter spaces out of desire ( Aries and Scorpio) versus emotional need and dependence ( the insecure child manifesting through Cancer ). She desires to  harness her own feeling of freedom to express her greatest vulnerabilities knowing this is where ultimate strength is found.

She is PURE EMOTION. Similar to being in the center of a wave that swells and crashes on the surface of the sand, she feels everything and her moods can ebb and flow with the cross currents that come with being one with the tides. She feels her way through life first and it is her emotional body that influences her thoughts and her every move. Her emotional state shifts with the phases of the Moon, and with each shift she is learning more about her emotional weak links and reminded of where the inner work needs to be done. Anytime she expresses an energy of dependency of any kind, she will find herself inevitably thrown back upon herself.

Due to her heightened sensitivity, she has a fear of being vulnerable. She is introverted in nature and will retreat into her shell for safety when the outside world becomes too much. The South Node of Lilith in Cancer’s emotional reactions linked with her insecurity can have her alternating between seeking out people and environments who she expects to fulfill displaced emotional needs, or she seeks out others who she can dominate and control in order to feel secure: to make others dependent upon her.
 
In her healthiest expression, she knows how to nurture every space she enters, and is tender beyond measure. She has the capacity to create a space of safety for the ones she loves. She embodies the feeling of home. In fact HOME IS EVERYTHING to her; the hearth, the stove, the smells, the sounds. It is the womb that she creates where she finds safety, solace and comfort. Her home is her heaven which includes the Souls of family who share that space with her.
 
In essence, a woman with a South Node of Lilith in Cancer has desired to express the intrinsic nature of FEMININITY, inwardly actualizing the pure emotion of the feminine and the embodiment of the feminine. This will include a desire to bear children and to be a mother herself, and to know that experience in full. The feeling of life within her womb will double the experience of being a woman and her role in contributing  to new life itself. One example of a natural expression of how this archetype is expressed in the context of society in terms of work could be a Soul who chooses to be a mid-wife.
 
The polarity is the 10th house/Capricorn, which reflects a Soul who is learning self determination and to walk on her own two feet. She is learning to take responsibility for her own actions which leads to emotional maturity. Her sense of identity will come through actualizing her right work in the world which includes establishing her personal authority and individuality in the context of society. The child becomes an adult. Instead of looking for others to make it happen for her, she digs in and makes it happen on her own and for herself.

SEXUALITY
 
A feeling of safety occurs directly through touch, not talk. You can know exactly how she is feeling through the essence of her own touch. Her touch on your skin can be warm, deeply comforting and re-assuring.
 
It is essential for a woman with a South Node of Lilith in Cancer to feel emotionally secure when opening herself up in intimacy. Trust is paramount and it is the pure exchange of emotion that will open the door to her shell and allow her to slip into those vulnerable spaces with another. An emotional connection that is rooted in trust must precede the sexual act.
 
As opposed to the cardinal archetype of Aries, she cannot just jump right in, she needs warming up, which occurs slowly and through emotional harmonizing with her partner. An initial feeling of safety can also occur through soft holding and caressing without sexual intent as well as soothing whispers. Once she softens and trusts, stronger holding and kissing follows, which is her foreplay where her own lips or those of another are allowed time to express and explore the body. She will have a strong oral orientation during foreplay and will desire to be touched by her partner through oral stimulation of her breasts and yoni. She will have a strong orientation to using her lips and her mouth as well on the male organ which connects back to a child’s need to bond with a mother at birth through breast feeding and the security it creates.
 
It may be too that her South Node of Lilith in Cancer represents her desire to experience being with a woman sexually so she can feel in full what it means to BE a woman and to pleasure a woman.
 
Once the feeling gates are open and she is emotionally resonating with their partner, she can experience a deeply permeating erotic union that combines the power of emotion with the sexual senses.
 
Following a sexual act, she will need to be held closely and in a full body way similar to a baby being held known as "spooning", so all of the emotional and physical sensations from the sexual exchange can be cradled in a bubble that allows her to feel safe and secure, and not judged, as a result of allowing herself to become so vulnerable.
 
Ultimately, she is learning to lose her fear of being vulnerable, which is what submersing herself into the water of emotion is all about. She is learning that WATER is Life's Greatest Sustainer, and the deeper she travels the more empowered she will be. She is learning the more OPEN she becomes, the more centered and balanced she will feel.
 
It is this feeling of balance that generates a feeling of inner security, and an inner feeling of comfort of who she is. This will then allow her to generate this same feeling of security and safety not only within her own family but in the lives of her tribe, her community or her country.
 
***

There is not much evidence left on the planet where natural tribes remain in place, tribes who equally honor women, but I was amazed to discover in recent years an ancient natural tribe where women were praised, if not exalted, for being women in the clan. The Zo'e tribe in the Amazon, a natural tribe of people living deep in the rain forests of Brazil, first met outsiders in 1982 after having no interaction with the outside world, when evangelical missionaries made contact. Ironically, or not, they were decimated by disease soon after, their numbers are now growing again. What I find so honoring of the role of women, is that their men and their boys dress up as a woman the day a baby is being born to present a sincere tribute to femininity. The boys walk around the tribe dressed in woman's garb for a few weeks following the birth of the baby. Even if the little new born is a boy, he will also be crowned as a queen.




Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 12, 2019, 07:51 PM
Kristin: what you posted about this tribe brings to mind something I've been trying to articulate....in between feeling I might be offending some, or simply misunderstand, plus difficulty in expressing myself I've not said anything.

Back when the thread first began I was wondering what exactly was 'natural' - that we are so far from it: do we even know anymore....

Souls are male/female love/evil etc etc: microcosm of the whole.....
but each soul has a specific reason or desire to either be male or female in a human body - it is NOT the same experience or will fulfill the same purposes, the sexes are not necessarily interchangeable

Naturally speaking it would seem that the female of the human NATURALLY embodies both male/female attributes...it is natural for a woman to express whatever is culturally determined to be either male or female according to her desires: even in this culture..finally now: a woman can and does do both what is considered 'female' and what was once the dominion of only the 'male': this is natural

Whereas the male of the human species is NOT within his physical form 'both' like a female is - he is 'singular': one of the most important emotional/psychological spiritual needs for a male is to make a RELATIONSHIP to the female - not necessarily literally, but within himself. But his role is always MALE - in relationship to the needs of the female: ie, the whole

So, it's become backwards nowadays really: that a female can only be what society deems 'feminine' and must relate to a male god...
IN A NATURAL CULTURE
it is the male who realizes he must make a relationship within & without to the female who is the WHOLE

It does seem at least, that women, by right of their actual human bodies, NATURALLY have the capacities & identities of the entire WHOLE

Not sure I am articulating this well...& hope I'm not offending anyone

Also, while I'm here I wish to say, that RE: what Rad said about Trump's last life, or the inbetween being when he made a contract with evil is what I think I was picking up on in a previous post: that moon opposite sun/nn/uranus.....his ego is resisting the 'mission' evil has given him according to his own choices - within that symbol though you can see where he is 'evolving' toward nonetheless....
 Editing to add: 'self-image' was the word with Trump & his moon/4th that I could not recall: his self-image is in opposition to the 'mission' evil has gave him....


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 13, 2019, 07:02 AM
Hi Nerissa,

We need to remember that the ego manifests from the Soul itself: it is not separate from it. It is the desires of the soul within Trump that are the causative determinants that have lead to his making the contract with Lucifer. The ego or self image generated from his Soul is not in opposition to itself. The 'mission', as you put it, is a function of his own Soul desires. And his Soul is responsible for those desires and choices. Being responsible for his own choices is that which Trump's Soul and ego is in denial of. It is in denial because his Soul NEEDS TO FEEL LIKE IT IS A VICTIM to anything or anyone that stands in his way of actualizing his core Soul desires for absolute power and domination of others. His Soul has and does consider itself to be a Zarathustra: a super human Soul who is superior to all others with the exception of a few like himself. This is why he like to be buddies with other evil Souls like Putin, etc.

His Soul needs to feel like a victim because it is through that dynamic that he has and can justify anything that he does relative to his desire to be that Zarathustra with absolute power and dominion over others. In essence, what he is opposing is accepting the responsibility in his own actions which is the very essence of the lessons that correlate with his North Lunar Node, Sun, and Uranus in his 10th House.

It is his own Soul's desires for ABSOLUTE POWER OVER OTHERS, TO BE A ZARATHUSTRA, THAT IS THE CAUSE OF HIM MAKING THAT CONTRACT WITH EVIL/ LUCIFER. His Soul can make itself a VICTIM TO ITSELF relative to being in denial of making that contract in the first place.

Relative to your thoughts/ questions about what is natural to be male or female simply remember the core and underlying natural law: it is the female principle that is the origin of life including the archetype of being male. Thus, the totality of the female archetype IS WITHIN THE MALE ITSELF just as the totality of the male is WITHIN THE FEMALE BECAUSE IT IS THE FEMALE THAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MALE. The male gender is not just one thing, just as the female in not just one thing. There is a natural diversity of archetypes that are specific to the female gender just as that is true for the male gender.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 14, 2019, 03:02 AM
Hi Kristin,

makes total sense now, the kite pattern, thank you for taking the time to explain it in Pelosi's chart. Great example, and i agree with DDD, that picture exactly describes current reality still today. I ended up thinking that the kite pattern can be too the intelligence within the soul to grow 'wings' around that initial opposition right?
Thank you too for the film links! I aim be able to post in a few days on this new segment.

Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 15, 2019, 11:49 AM
Hi All,

When I was drafting the Cancer piece, I was reminded of a song that speaks so well to this archetype:

WARM WHISPERS by Australian musician Missy Higgins.

and Guess what ?

She has South Node of Lilith in Cancer (Mars in Cancer too)

Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnSsILubpag&start_radio=1&list=RDNnSsILubpag&t=150

and for a more wild/edgy live version..she really comes out of her shell at the end and accesses that square to Aries, and then the shy Cancer in her quietly crawls back in her shell again, two steps forward, one step back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycNBnqI1mY


"Warm Whispers"

Your warm whispers
Out of the dark they carry my heart
Your warm whispers
Into the dawn they carry me through
And I'm weeping warm honey and milk
That you stay surrounding me, surrounding me

Your warm whispers
Letting me drown in a pool of you
Your warm whispers
Keeping the noise from breaking through
And I'm weeping warm honey and milk
That you stay surrounding me, surrounding me
Yeah I'm weeping warm honey and milk that you
Stay surrounding me

Your warm whispers
Your warm whispers

And I'm weeping warm honey and milk
Your warm whispers
Yeah, I'm weeping warm honey and milk
Your warm whispers

Oh, yeah. Oh, whoa

Oh, yeah. Oh, whoa

(But you're gone)

Your warm whispers
(But you're gone, you're gone
You're gone you're gone
You're gone you're gone)

Your warm whispers
(But you're gone, you're gone and
You're gone you're gone and
You're gone you're gone)

Your warm whispers
(But you're gone, you're gone and
You're gone you're gone and
You're gone you're gone)



Goddess Bless,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Nerissa on Jan 17, 2019, 07:42 PM
Thank you, Rad!

Yes, I was thinking more about his Moon ruled by Jupiter: that he has this inflated self-image he can justify with all manner of beliefs/belief systems....the ruler in 2nd: that reinforce his own inner sense of need/worth to maintain this inner fiction (Neptune there too: seems pretty clear)....& that Venus in the 11th/Cancer: goes back to that Sun/nn/uranus as well: entirely tied into that dynamic just described - the 'mission' and the justification for that mission based on ego-aggrandizement coupled with trauma: and the utter intention of creating mass trauma for others: in the future he will be the figure head of other mass-movements...

He is described as a 'stress-eater': looking at those cancer/11th/jupiter/second house: could it be more clear??

It is also interesting to see the dynamic of 'denial' ie, Virgo: it rules the second (self worth, relation to the self), Mercury rules the sun/nn/uranus 'contract' dynamic, it is in the 11th (trauma & within that sado-maschoism) in cancer (his self-image) and the sixth is ruled by.....Aquarius, right back to that Uranus etc!!  

What do you see Rad about the future of this life, and beyond that what you can or wish to share, considering his moon is conjunct his south node?

....he is bringing into this life previous dynamics: but it's a redo...since he has made a contract after that most recent past life: I imagine certain dynamics are 'better' to his point of view - but the end result is the same despite the contract...

His entire chart becomes so self-referential, variations on a theme: reminds me, I think of the dissection of Yoko Ono's chart that there is 'no way out'...also, Trump, as Ono, has the Mars in the 12th: Rad said he felt frequently that this placement gives to mind a person who could have an outward appearance but have a 'knife in their boot'....

And: thanks for the clarity @ gender issues: the societies I was looking at, looking closer, though much more natural then the current earth, are still patriarchal in nature.....that's my issue: where is any example of what is natural anymore?  


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Jan 18, 2019, 05:58 AM
Hi Nerissa,

I would rather not say anything about the rest of Trump's life, and his future, at this point in time.

The only example of folks living naturally anymore can only been seen through individual humans here and there, this small community and that. That's about it, sadly, at this point in time

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: dollydaydream on Jan 18, 2019, 09:46 AM
Kristin thanks for the link to Missy Higgins' song and lyrics.  Beautiful.  DDD


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 20, 2019, 03:11 PM
Hi All,

So we are continuing our journey with Lilith, and will now move to the next step by discussing the archetype of Cancer and how this archetype manifests when it is distorted.

Remember that for any Soul who has repressed what is natural prior to this life, will be born with these distortions coming into this life. This applies for a majority of the human race. Very few Souls have the courage to fully honor and own their natural design.

So if you have already been preparing something or want to comment on the pure form of Cancer, please do, and for those who would like to participate in the next step, please share a distorted expression of South Node of Lilith in Cancer.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Deva on Jan 21, 2019, 11:31 AM
Hi All,

I want to thank Kristin, Rad, and all that have participated on this thread! I have gained a lot of valuable wisdom from reading what has been shared here. I would like to add my understanding of the archetype of Cancer expressed in the pure form.

The pure expression of the archetype of Cancer is one of self-security, and able to express both vulnerability and strength simultaneously (Capricorn polarity). In essence, to access vulnerability in such a way that we become self-secure and stronger than before. In this way, the inner child becomes a healthy "adult child" through emotional maturation (Capricorn polarity). Within this, is the ability to nurture others in ways that the Soul was perhaps not nurtured as a child; to heal emotional wounds of the past through nurturing others first. By doing so, the Soul can nurture the community at large in some way.

The Cancer/4th house/Moon archetype symbolizes a recovery of our original root/origin as we return to The Source of All Things, God/dess. Astrologically speaking, the natural trine from the sign of Cancer (self-image/origin) to the sign of Pisces (Source) reflects this process. The key within this is to effect emotional healing through developing an internal state of security, and cultivating a positive self-image that is does not seek security through others.

Often, when we see the sign of Cancer emphasized in the natal chart it symbolizes that emotional needs were not meet as a child. In a positive expression,  this experience can be used to effect internal nurturing, and to purge external sources of security. In addition, helping others heal from their own wounds through promoting self-care and self-security rather than a dependency on oneself or others.  

In a pure expression, the sign of Cancer can be expressed as a type of "universal mother" archetype who cares for the community at large in some way. From my understanding, in natural times there was no "nuclear family," or "us four and no more" mentality as we know it today. In addition, children were raised communally.  

I look forward to continuing this journey with you all here!

Namaste,

Deva


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 21, 2019, 01:46 PM
Hi All,

I took me a while to put something together, probably more than the origins, but that was the intent.

Thank you to Kristin too for that beautiful song and inspiration, it was on my mind for a whole day :-) and also to Deva for coming to teach us. Looking forward too to more insights, thoughts and sharing of everyone who wants to join in, Heather and Nerissa.

Thank you,
Helena



SN LILITH CANCER/ 4TH HOUSE . FINDING THE ORIGINS

Tuning In
These women have been tuning in.
From Gemini’s leaves to Taurus’s trunk and stems, Cancer branches are in the roots of the Female Tree. Theirs is the past as well as the future of the feminine.
NN Pluto in Cancer, Soul collective future, goes to the depths from where they have been and come from. The return to Mother.
Cancer is yin, in her origins she is embodies the essence of the female polarity. In her journey, we wonder who’s behind that courageous choice to keep coming from the origins no matter what? Who were these women that endured the patriarchy from a place of emotion, feeling and care? It is my proposal that they, or at least some essential part of themselves, had to remain hidden, over there in the roots of the Tree to preserve the most sacred part not only of themselves but Ourselves. But also that the original expression of the archetype is too about honouring the sacredness of the inner life.
It is from the depth of these unknown, unseen places, that they continued to be mothers, lovers, partners, friends, caretakers, midwives.
Most of the times, they only gave. Love, nourishment, kindness, food for body and soul, but Who’s body and soul? Sometimes it is true that they just end up spent, lost and alone.

If The Future is Female, the most recent past in collective evolution was essentially not female. It was extraordinarily difficult for these women to keep touching the memories of who they really are, going there to what they are feeling and experiencing first. To value and be valued for that. This can be seen astrologically not only in the opposition to capricorn/sn pluto and the cardinal squares, but the Sagittarius/Aquarius inconjuncts. This shows the crisis, trauma and indirect paths they endured just to be themselves and honour the truth in their natures, on God/dess behalf. These women were the keepers of the feminine Tree, they kept its roots alive, working from underground, so some day, their flowers and fruits can grow free.
They were not calling it the forbidden fruit for nothing amidst Patriarchy distorted symbology. It was essentially in fear of Truth that distortions were and are created. We have seen and been studying this in the case of soul’s like Nancy Pelosi, her innermost truth standing tall in face of collective fear, firmly rooted and alive. It might not always been like this. We could only imagine what it was like for her to tune in and come back to show it, but she did it on her own for sure. We can see it.
Sometimes it can just be anger, righteous anger coming out, an emotion women were taught to hide or something not ‘pretty’ to show, at least under others standards.

But even if personally we don’t connect directly to Lilith’s SN expression in Cancer, the 4th house or in aspect to the moon, we would be always in touch with the beginning, the origin she shares with all of us. Her need for going inside and find pure emotion.
She knows there’s magic to tuning in.
All births come from there. We feel insecure, unsure, vulnerable, afraid, we don’t know. Let’s imagine, from the aries/cancer square, something completely new trying to come to life, how not to feel all of that? It’s just natural, we don’t have to expect it to be any different. This is the thing SN Lilith in Cancer does not have to fix and she would never try to fix in her Original self. It is not wrong to feel all of that, it’s natural. In surrendering to the truth of what is, magic happens. It’s in this place God/dess conspires to makes us happy. It really does as we know it, we all have experienced those moments in life where giving up the struggle was exactly finding the answer, and almost by magic something new was born. A new path, creative inspiration, love, moment of bliss. Born from the inside, out of our courageous act to accept vulnerability and just open the inner door. Does this also mean we had to close the outer door? Probably yes, even if for a moment, and a crucial act to understand the journey of this woman’s essence.


The Moon Goddess and the Deities in the Underground
It’s Lunar Eclipse time and here we are honouring Her. An eclipse with moon at zero degrees Leo and how beautiful it is to see this Lilith’s ruler staying here at the entrance door of the Sun sign, both sharing equal place, moon and sun, at the third eye chakra, calling our intuitive wisdom, spiritual awareness and balance of rest, play, listen, talk, gestate, create, give, receive.
The Moon rules not only over our emotional bodies she is the ancient ruler for the passage of time. The inner cycles inside Chronos time, Saturn.
She presides over natural rhythms, our bodies and earth rhythms. She rules over women's cycles, sexuality and fertility. Every 28 days she introduces to our awareness the requests of our souls and women’s menstrual cycles and life’s passages are deeply rooted in Her wisdom. Many women today are bringing back the tools our ancestors relied on for natural living and communion with the Moon, to trust the intelligence of life and earth’s whispers and cultivate staying grounded. From women sharing with other women practical tools on how to adjust their life’s flow with their menstrual cycles, intuitively trusting the wisdom of their bodies to knowing when to act, when to stay; to astrological timing with the new and full moon’s themes and celebrate these cycles with each other with natural rituals.
We can all find our own unique way to live under Her guidance. Personally, i found profound connection, for some years now, in keeping a little lunation book journal i created, nothing fancy. The guidance and synchronicity i have received over these years is beyond extraordinary. I would encourage any woman with the desire to dive deep into their own essence to create their own personal way to live with the moon.
In my journal i decided to keep track of the new moon themes from an astrological perspective, what they point to in my chart and watch what goes during the month, with a little space for dreams and other messages and synchronicities, then i leave a space open for the next full moon at the same sign, in around 6 months time and see how life (and the things i not even remembered), at all times bring developments, new insights and usually circles/closes around the same issues or souls wishes to work in the areas they archetypally and literally point to. It’s quite an exercise. It teaches to trust in the natural cycles of life and of our connection to the Whole. Naturally grounds and protects the soul from any external references or themes holding to much meaning in favour of true inner development and focus. As with any process, it has its own time and that’s usually the fun of it ;-)

This connection to the Moon probably unveils a little bit more on Ceres/Lilith nodes correlation too. If Ceres, as Kristin remembered, is a symbol for the recovery of something lost from the past, I would risk to propose that Lilith in Cancer with her Moon rulership presides over each Goddess stay in the realm of the unseen. I am no expert to the mythological themes, but tend to find they teach us many stories some of them with a common message permeating many cultures and times.
From the Woman’s journey perspective, whenever true feminine essence was endangered Goddesses went underground, be it the underworld, the earth or the sea.They were out of human sight for a while. Usually to find themselves or lost parts of them, to rest, to cry, to recover, to survive and to come back. Goddess Moon with her original wisdom, has always been watching over them and their perilous cycles and journeys. Original Lilith herself flew there, Ceres was there, Isis, Sedna, Psyche and many other Goddesses and mythological figures that also tell us stories of wisdom in retreat.
One of my favourite it is the story of Psyche, interesting to remember here.
In some way she tells us the story of the soul’s need for self-care in order to find true Divinity. To meet the other from her Divine place and nothing less, as well as how the female is too essentially erotic. She embodies the original expression of vulnerability and courage behind self-love as the fundamental task women and the feminine part in each soul, mature expression of emotions, has in the development of inner security, so all that can be given to or experienced with the other comes unconditionally from there and from that awareness. She shows how that process unfolds, sometimes inadvertently, and how we mature and grow incorporating emotion.
She is a symbol for divine union and the encounter with erotic love with a particular message that none of that would be ever possible if the soul ignores the inner path. When Psyche was initially married to Eros, in the condition of the most beautiful mortal, she had this rule where she could never ever see him under the light. In this stage she was the symbol of women madly in love with an idea of the other, Psyche, but fundamentally unaware of the desires of her soul and her erotic self, unable to consciously see Other because Psyche didn’t not expressed yet her true self out of self-love and self-care.
In her story, she undergoes alone this process of passing four impossible tasks (interesting to see here too the four points in the grand cross as essential turning corners in evolution) where nature always, almost by magic, comes to help and keep company, teaching how to blend the masculine and feminine energies, learning to fly over the “river of hate”, focusing on the tasks at hand and ignoring distractions that commonly appear as other people, helpless and already dead, asking for her help, trying to take her down with them, astrologically, Libra’s square to Cancer and the need for balance giving/not giving.
Nonetheless right in the end of her journey after passing all the tasks she chooses to disobey, (she actually disobeyed twice because it was her original curiosity that led her to shed a light on eros that then set her through all of this). The rules were very specific, she was to bring this beauty ointment from the underworld and deliver it to Aphrodite so she could reunite with her beloved again. But at the end of her quest, feeling tired, worn out, in need for rest and care, Psyche decided that she would not give this beauty ointment to Aphrodite. Even if she risked life doing it, she would give what she needed and conquered by her own means to herself and only from there she could reunite with her love.
This was of course very controversial, although i agree on this view that at the end of the quest she was different, she manage the right to make her own decisions, she had just conquered/recovered her own Divinity, she was to see/meet herself and her needs clearly and so she was ready to experience Divine love. “In all interpretation of the myth that I have come across Psyche is scorned for her “narcissistic” wish to be beautiful for Eros. But I think we can look at what she did form a symbolic standpoint: the soul wants to purify itself and be beautiful to in order to merge with the Beloved (understood as God, like in Sufism or Christian mysticism). She is a drop that longs after the ocean.”*

The Sn Lilith in Cancer woman in her original form, desires to merge with the other, wants union, physical touch, tenderness and most of all, give and receive love. She is shy, but like Psyche, she can be adventurous, put herself under trouble to learn how to be mature and be responsible for herself. She will deeply trust her intuition. Originally, her love his unconditional, the water grand trine, and that love is everywhere and extended to everyone.
Sexually she would rather want to kiss a whole day then a five minute intense sexual encounter, something rather difficult if not impossible for her, specially with no prior intimacy. For her every little thing matters. The atmosphere, the scents, the sounds, all belong to the experience. Is like the outside world meets the inner world in equal amounts. Sexual intimacy will also need time and ritual, things unfolding slowly at their own pace. Nothing would put this woman more out of her center then to be made to rush, or be touched aggressively. She will need time before, during and after sex. Most importantly she will need to share caress and touch after orgasmic experiences. She won’t have the same needs all the time but she will need a safe, secure and nurturing environment to express what she needs. And also most of all from her love and intense physical union and bonding, she will want to create new life from within herself, born out of love.

Wholehearted
It is both serendipity and magic that during the writing of this part of the thread i came across this amazing woman, who happens to had given one of the most all time viewed Ted Talks, on the Power of Vulnerability for wholehearted living. You probably know her, Brene Brown, and is no wonder she has Lilith and SN Lilith in Cancer.
Many pages can be written on this Lilith but she simply, on a very cancerian way, shares with us how she went to pull it through, and she gives us all her Love.

Here is her talk
https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability/transcript

And i also leave bellow an image, with valuable guidelines taken from her work, that could well translate the return to Original Lilith in Cancer


*from https://symbolreader.net/2013/11/12/eros-and-psyche-3/


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 22, 2019, 09:05 AM
Hi Kristin,

After posting i have been reflecting on gender relative to SN Lilith in cancer, so went to this that you wrote,

"Because Cancer/Capricorn connects to gender, it may also be that in prior lives this woman was a man and is learning now to develop the other side of gender in order to balance both sides in full.
 
If not, then the evolutionary intent is to access the natural inner male and integrate it within her ongoing actualization of her own femininity. The evolutionary intent is to become equally male and female and to cultivate both sides of the whole. Another reason for the insecurity may be due to not feeling at home in this new gender, hormones included, especially given how patriarchal cultures have defined masculinity and femininity."


I can confirm from the few cases that i know personally, besides Nancy Pelosi as you mentioned, that it's true changing gender previously has happened, and was thinking on perspective, that relative to SN Lilith gemini's more androgynous state, that probably SN Lilith in cancer issues relative to gender and integration of the inner male/female are very emphasised, a big soul issue, and i didn't refer to that, would you see it being so?
It's curious that some of this souls would have NN Lilith in sagittarius, others capricorn, so a general guideline could we say that this could help us know if the integration has already occurred and now more a question of following one's true relative to gender preferences, sagittarius, and still needing to work on the integration of the male polarity and inner security/authority issues in the case of Capricorn?

In essence from what i get from this cases, it seems that if changing gender occurred in this life, now a woman, this is a woman that is also re-learning about her own feminity much more than acting from the Origin. It seems that until that power of vulnerability is addressed things are always even if for a bit, distorted, right?

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 22, 2019, 02:20 PM
Hi All,

Deva, Thank you for your presence here on the Lilith thread and for sharing some key additions. Your post reminded me of something I wanted to share with everyone when we see Cancer emphasized in a birth chart and the need to develop internal security.

It is important to remember that this is true for the Soul at any stage of evolution. Souls in the advanced stages of the Spiritual State will endure intense emotional tests as well. Just because a Soul is evolved, does not mean they do not continue to experience these emotional hits. These hairpin turns can be some of the toughest growth points to endure so the Soul can cultivate a total sense of emotional strength and security, which ultimately leads to an inner union with the Divine. As we have all been sharing with the teachings of the archetype of Cancer, the only real way forward is by doing the deep emotional work, which opens a door to the Soul and a direct channel to the Eternal: Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces.

Take the story of Yogananda for example. He lost his mother at the tender age of 11, whom he was extremely close to. They were separated when she passed and she died so quickly that he did not even have a chance to feel her touch one last time or to say good-bye to her.

Yogananda was devastated by her death. He shares this story in his Autobiography and the Soul reasoning that he needed to lose his earthly mother was so he would seek to access the unconditional love of the Heavenly Mother.

Clearly, he was thrown into an absolute state of vulnerability. This proved to be a heart-wrenching loss, but one that would propel him into his destiny as a "Spiritual engine , who would carry many Souls to God's Kingdom."  Her last words in a letter to him were, "Farewell my child; The Cosmic Mother will protect you."

He has Venus and Mercury in Sagittarius in the 4th house, a Cancer house. Venus rules his North Node in Taurus in the 9th, and Mercury is ruler of his Pluto in Gemini in the 10th. Pluto rules his 4th house cusp as well. His South Node of Mars and South Node of Uranus are conjunct his 4th house Venus and Mercury, reflecting the sudden loss of his mother and his need to go at it "alone".

Yogananda has a 12th house Leo Moon.....Heavenly Mother.


***

I remember JWG saying more than once how alone the Soul can feel as one deepens into the latter stages of the Spiritual State of evolution. This is because very few in their life, if any, will have a similar inner awareness of the world and beyond. How can another really understand the emotional reality of someone who is much further along? This experience alone will have the Soul feeling very much 'on their own.' It is an archetype for those at the advanced stages of evolution, and it emphasizes the constant need for the 4th house push no matter where you are on the wheel.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 22, 2019, 02:39 PM
Hi Helena,

I thoroughly enjoyed your post and wish to comment in full, not only to your generous offering but also to the questions that you asked.

I am quite limited on time today but will respond in the morning.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 22, 2019, 03:21 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3d/16/2d/3d162de1b1f73d4af538b4eecfad4709.jpg)


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 23, 2019, 10:55 AM
Hi Deva,

I wanted to add comment to something you said that I loved along the lines of tribe.

You wrote

In a pure expression, the sign of Cancer can be expressed as a type of "universal mother" archetype who cares for the community at large in some way. From my understanding, in natural times there was no "nuclear family," or "us four and no more" mentality as we know it today. In addition, children were raised communally.

Yes, A natural form of expression for the Cancer Archetype is to be a MOTHER TO MANY!

At times you may see charts for Souls with a strong Cancer signature who do not have their own children in this life or have trouble conceiving, perhaps because their primary role is to nurture themselves and their own inner child. However, they may choose professions where they can be a Mother to Many as in being a teacher or a social worker etc.

Great addition..

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 23, 2019, 12:00 PM
Dear Helena,


JWG used to teach that when you understand the ROOT, then the branches take care of themselves. This is true as well with a woman's natural design. When you fertilize and feed this central truth, the various forms of expression evolve naturally, from branches to leaves, to flowers.

I loved your title Tuning IN...the natural expression of Cancer knows how to do that, for they are forever turning in and FEELING everything.

You wrote

In her journey, we wonder who’s behind that courageous choice to keep coming from the origins no matter what? Who were these women that endured the patriarchy from a place of emotion, feeling and care? It is my proposal that they, or at least some essential part of themselves, had to remain hidden, over there in the roots of the Tree to preserve the most sacred part not only of themselves but Ourselves. But also that the original expression of the archetype is too about honouring the sacredness of the inner life.

So true....In the Ted Talk that you shared on Vulnerability...loved it! so cool that Brene Brown has Lilith in Cancer and SN Lilith in Cancer. You can see the gender switch in her energy as well.

I was deeply drawn to how she spoke about the difference between courage and bravery.

"The word Cour means HEART" in Latin, she says. Those woman who had the courage to be vulnerable are women who experience more joy in their life. "It is the Birthplace of joy and creativity and love,” "They believed what made them vulnerable, made them beautiful."  

YES!!! and this is a natural truth.

and yes HIDING had to happen for these women and still happens in this patriarchal repressed reality, the hiding to protect what is so sacred. The natural TRINE to PISCES.

The women indeed kept the tribe in a state of balance, keeper's of the flame which includes sacred sexuality.

You wrote

All births come from there. We feel insecure, unsure, vulnerable, afraid, we don’t know. Let’s imagine, from the aries/cancer square, something completely new trying to come to life, how not to feel all of that? It’s just natural, we don’t have to expect it to be any different. This is the thing SN Lilith in Cancer does not have to fix and she would never try to fix in her Original self. It is not wrong to feel all of that, it’s natural.


So true, I cannot tell you how times I have heard from clients with a strong Cancer signature that for their entire life people are telling them how sensitive they are (as if it's some kind of disease) It is the distortions with the Soul that create emotions that others react to. So it is not the sensitivity that is the issue, it is the repression of emotion over time that then can create the struggle as you spoke about..but it is within this pain..the struggle ..when something new and beautiful can be born. I loved how you spoke about this. We have to have the courage to GO THERE to be uncomfortable and to feel naked and alone...this is when real growth and true evolution happens.

A powerful example using the story of Psyche, and so true...Aphrodite was jealous of her beauty,and her strength, so much because she was able to access the power of vulnerability. She realized in her own journey and obstacles that she had to endure that nothing was more vital than becoming WHOLE unto herself which could only occur by leaning into her own divinity. A very ARIES/CANCER/SCORPIO/PISCES pursuit.

Your sharing on the pure Cancer sexual nature was spot on.

Excellent...thank you Helena,

Goddess Bless,
Kristin

P.S. I will follow-up in an additional post to answer your questions.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 23, 2019, 04:56 PM
Hello Again Helena,

You asked

I can confirm from the few cases that i know personally, besides Nancy Pelosi as you mentioned, that it's true changing gender previously has happened, and was thinking on perspective, that relative to SN Lilith gemini's more androgynous state, that probably SN Lilith in cancer issues relative to gender and integration of the inner male/female are very emphasised, a big soul issue, and i didn't refer to that, would you see it being so?

Just because a Soul has South Node of Lilith in Gemini, it does not necessarily mean that they are naturally more androgynous. So much will depend on the evolution of that Soul, as well the need to look at the entire birth chart. A South Node of Lilith in Gemini will reflect their need for diversity and often this can mean they will desire to experience the feminine and the masculine within those experiences but it will not equal an androgynous nature across the board.

When the Soul has South Node of Lilith in Cancer, there will be a need to cultivate the inner feminine as well as the Soul learning how to establish inner security, regardless of whether they have switched genders or not. But yes, a big soul issue would be in establishing more inner balance between the inner feminine and inner masculine, seen in the natural square to Libra.

You asked


It's curious that some of this souls would have NN Lilith in sagittarius, others capricorn, so a general guideline could we say that this could help us know if the integration has already occurred and now more a question of following one's true relative to gender preferences, sagittarius, and still needing to work on the integration of the male polarity and inner security/authority issues in the case of Capricorn?


There are no general guidelines.  The North Node of Lilith in Sag relative to South Node of Lilith in Cancer has it's own archetypes. This does not mean that the integration of the male/ female has already occurred compared to North Node in Cap. The issue is to understand in the Soul's context why they have chosen the Sag or Cap North Node of Lilith.

You asked

In essence from what i get from this cases, it seems that if changing gender occurred in this life, now a woman, this is a woman that is also re-learning about her own feminity much more than acting from the Origin. It seems that until that power of vulnerability is addressed things are always even if for a bit, distorted, right?



Yes.

Any Soul for example who represses what is natural in other lifetimes, will be born with those distortions coming into any given life. For a Soul with a South Node of Lilith in Cancer, they will be desiring to express and access the fullness of their femininity naturally but the distortions will also be present until they are worked through and evolved. It's about being able to recognize what is natural, as in origins, versus what is distorted. But essentially YES, to re-learn and REMEMBER how this Cancer energy manifests in a pure form. Emotionally open and vulnerable = beautiful!

Goddess Bless,
Kristin



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 24, 2019, 05:48 AM
Hi Kristin,

i couldn't thank you enough for the time you devote to this teachings and encouraging words.. Really.
I wish we can continue this thread and more people join in on this fascinating topic. If i can say anything is that before i start putting something together i have absolutely no idea of is going to come out  :) and that's what's great about it, is we just put questions to ourselves and answer to what makes sense in our realities and maybe sharing them is always adding something to a greater Whole, and it's been a joyous journey!

Really something to contemplate what you shared on Yogananda's life, it would never cross my mind how much the Souls in very advanced stages of evolution can experience lack of understanding, but might be so true, as you said, who can really understand their emotional reality? It only adds to the respect and admiration for their passage on earth...

Thank you also for answering my questions on gender in this context. I look forward we develop it more as time goes.

Blessings Kristin,
Helena



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 26, 2019, 10:08 AM
Hi All,

We have discussed some of Pelosi's natal chart but with recent events, I wanted to share some of what is going on in her chart through transit.

Just prior to the shutdown in the US being released, and the government being re-opened (for the next few weeks), Trump was heard saying over and over , I will not cave."

It is in fact Nancy Pelosi who was and is the one who will never cave in.

Witness her ongoing push of success in the transits, especially to benefit the country financially (Taurus )

Pluto and Saturn are progressively forming a GRAND TRINE with her Taurus stellium and Neptune in Virgo, while sextiling her Scorpio Moon. This is a LONG range transit providing her with considerable leverage.
This also suggests she will be getting a little help from ON HIGH (Neptune) ~ "Lord knows we need it."

I so wish we had a birth time on her....using a Noon chart.

Rad posted this article today on the Environment thread.
Nancy Pelosi looking to introduce bill that would stop future shutdowns

Note:

Pelosi's Original Lilith in Cancer makes an EXACT opposition the the USA natal Pluto in VS at 27 degrees.
Pelosi's South Node of Lilith is 29 Taurus
Pelosi's North Node of Lilith is 9.51 VS

Feel free to comment further.

Goddess Bless,

Kristin

P.S. I just took a peek at the Pelosi/Trump composite chart  ~ it also says it all.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 28, 2019, 06:26 PM
Hi Kristin,

How do you see the transit of nodes square nodes in this case?
Nancy Pelosi has Pluto, Lilith, Pallas, Chiron all square the nodal axis and now the transiting NN is just passing there. I know JWG said about it that is was like being at crossroads... Is the point to focus on both NN and respective rulers? That would point to her moon in scorpio/venus in taurus in opposition... I get confused, it seems like too many crossroads added also the skipped steps with resolution on the SN.
One thing that occurs to me is that transit NN Cancer is going to ask for to recover lilith/pallas/chiron origins, coming from the depths of her soul and what was lost, moon in scorpio.
NN moon in libra points to sn Lilith, again recover, and venus in taurus, this time in a way that brings stability to the soul. Would that be some of it? Although NN and venus are inconjunct... Not very clear to me.

Also, Kristin, i am with some extra work until Wednesday, only after that will be able to post on the distorted Lilith in Cancer, hope that is ok and others can post too.

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 29, 2019, 11:31 AM
Hi Helena,

Well we have already witnessed this as a changing of the guards when the transiting North Node crossed over her natal Pluto and the Nodes squared her natal Saturn before changing signs early November, which was when she won back the position of Speaker of the House and was given the gavel back earlier this month.

Pluto and Saturn in Capricorn trine her Venus and Mars in Taurus, she is weaving her way forward, plodding along and staying true to the system, the constitution. Brick by brick, step by step until one day, a mountain will be moved. Slowly, but surely, she will wear Trump down.

Pelosi has recently been referred to as IRON LADY  ~ Saturn on her South Node, iron correlating to Saturn.

Here is a great article on her https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/reinvigorated-trump-battle-nancy-pelosis-star-shines-78/ (https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/reinvigorated-trump-battle-nancy-pelosis-star-shines-78/)

Now the Nodes are approaching a square to her Natal Nodes, the exact degrees of which will occur late April/early May but they are already strongly influencing her chart as you mentioned, the tr North Node has already crossed over her Pluto, Lilith, Pallas, Chiron. This does reflect the potential for a true turning point in her personal journey.


How do you see the transit of nodes square nodes in this case?

The transiting nodes squaring her natal nodes correlate to the POSSIBILITY of creating skipped steps depending on choices made during that transit, and relative to that transit it means the opportunity to completely/recover the skipped steps that were inherent from the birth moment, the underlying intention for the life is to recover the skipped steps in order to keep evolving and that is exactly how it has and is playing out in her life. Think about the fact she became speaker of the house, house equaling Cancer ,within the government, Capricorn, for a second time ...

In past lives she has given up in the face of too much opposition and it caused her to go into an inner hole, hiding there, due to her own inner estimation of personal survival being the reason, causing the skipped step. So this second chance at being speaker .. in this life ... will allow her to literally shine, and resolve that skipped step.

The deal now for her is that she has learned how the system works to such an extent that she has become a 'master' at it ~ Saturn on the  South Node, so yes, this will help her recover her power as a woman in a man's world and this experience gives her the backing that she needs to not so much as blink or buckle under the pressure. All the memories from other times when she retreated and experienced total powerlessness (Moon in Scorpio, tail of the kite) are deeply IN her, and this also contributes to her fierce motivation to do it different this time, no matter what.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin

P.S.

Transiting Saturn in Capricorn crossed over Pelosi's North Node of Lilith at the same time the transiting North Node in Cancer crossed over her natal Lilith 28 Cancer. History becomes Her-story in the making.
 


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Jan 30, 2019, 04:45 AM
Hi Kristin,

i totally agree, History becomes Her-story in the making. I now get it! Thank you for making it so clear  :)
And so true, an iron lady at 78 just like the matriarch of a community in her community.
I just want to add something on the inconjuncts, pondering on what you said.
She has two parallel inconjuncts (it looks almost like a road drawing), one from moon, lilith/pallas/chiron ruler, to the south node, the other from venus/uranus, nn ruler, to the north node. Venus is conjunct uranus, community, so it was only when she found her group, other women to back her position, that all is possible.
God/dess time, no? The inconjuncts usually tell a story of crisis and indirect roads until we get whole picture and this couldn't be a better example.

Thank you Kristin, as always,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Jan 30, 2019, 11:20 AM
Hi All,

Welcome to our FUTURE!

Pelosi may be 78 but Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez just had her Saturn return. She is only 29 years old.

Ocasio-Cortez has SOUTH NODE of LILITH in CANCER in the 7th house, which is ruled by an Aries Moon in the 3rd.

Ocasio-Cortez has billionaires running scared with her proposal to tax the super rich, She has a South Node of the Moon in LEO the 8th house, remembering the 8th house connects to BIG money and big power over the little people. This is her own way of recovering her power, in her case, this power is directly linked with fighting for HER people and for her homeland.

Her South Node of Lilith in Cancer (18.13 degrees) in the 7th is conjunct Jupiter and squaring her Mars in Libra as well as her Sun, the ruler of her South Node in Leo in the 8th. She is like a wild Indian, even wearing a suit, playing by the white man's rules and she is coming to even a score.

“It’s scary,” Scott Minerd, global chief investment officer for Guggenheim Partners, told CNBC. “By the time we get to the presidential election, this is going to gain more momentum. And I think the likelihood that a 70 percent tax rate, or something like that, becomes policy is actually very real.”

Cortez's Original Lilith (0.52 degrees)  as well as her North Node of Lilith (7.18 degrees) are BOTH in Sagittarius in her 12th house, conjunct Venus and the South Node of Uranus. That Venus rules her Sun in Libra: equality.

Jupiter just crossed over those points and then crossed over her Sagittarius Ascendant. Transiting Uranus will re-enter Taurus in March and progressively trine her natal Uranus, Saturn and Neptune in Capricorn.

She is just getting started!

Please Feel Free to comment on her Liliths in this chart!

Peace,
Kristin


P.S. Check out the 3 great articles on her in the Environmental thread.



Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Feb 03, 2019, 10:31 AM
Hi Kristin and All,

i have had a very 'uranian' week, with unexpected things going and demanding my attention, i am sorry i could not follow through as i thought.
I plan to post as soon as i can but better wait on Nerissa, and anyone more that wants to join in on Original Lilith in Cancer? Nerissa, would you agree? I have seen you have also some difficult times going for you and your family, not easy i could only imagine, hope everything goes for the better for you in these times.
My uranus opposition is still coming so i could not comment from personal experience, but agree to be great to follow on the subject.

Kristin, thank you for the actual chart on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. The more i see it, the more i am amazed on how she brings to us all the Goddesses. I saw Daniel already approaching it in last zoom meetings, and it was very interesting, maybe Daniel can comment a bit on it? From my point of view she really has all this messages, the grand cross of Goddesses:

Vesta conjunct Neptune/Saturn/Uranus in Capricorn
Juno conjunct Sun Libra
Ceres conjunct Jupiter/Chiron and this conjunct SN Lilith Cancer
And then Moon exactly conjunct Pallas in Aries! (this conjunct Nancy Pelosi's Sun and God/dess knows we need good fire to start  :))
That's too how she brings all these SN Lilith in Cancer messages, rulled by the moon, for us to remember. It looks like new ideas to us but i think on a soul level everyone knows what she is talking about... I am curious on her evolutionary state though. Would Ocasio-Cortez be 3rd Stage Individuated and Nancy Pelosi 3rd Stage Consensus? I'm not feeling sure about this...

And then, all the Goddesses are in Grand Cross conjunctions plus Lilith/NN Lilith in 12th, God/dess, ruling the sun and ruled by the Jupiter/Sn Lilith Cancer. Amazing how she brings to us this powerful feminine that is undeniable, we don't have to understand astrology, everyone feels and sees it!

Since this goes for the purposes of this thread, i would like to mention she also has another Goddess very prominent. Since she has the curious name Alexandria i have always felt ancient Egypt energy to her so i checked Isis (asteroid 42).
And AOC has Isis asteroid at 12 Scorpio, conjunct Pluto; NN Isis at 16 Cancer, conjunct Sn Lilith/NN Pluto and
SN Isis at 4 Sag conjunct Lilith, NN Lilith and Venus.
What i think this says is that her original female root emanates the teachings of Mother Goddess Isis that tells a story of putting together, out of her creatively will, a whole out of the separate/desmembered parts not only of the feminine but also the masculine, the same way Isis brought Osiris back to life. It would be an interesting subject to dive in, this symbology coming through AOC's energy.

Hope to hear more thoughts on this amazing soul.

Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Feb 05, 2019, 02:49 AM
Hi Kristin, is the chart for AOC a noon chart or known birth time?


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 05, 2019, 10:53 AM
Hi Stacie,

This is a known birth time.

Dig in if you wish   :)

~Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 05, 2019, 10:55 AM
Hi Helena,

Regarding stage of evolution.

Yes, Pelosi is 3rd stage consensus.
Yes, AOC is 3rd stage Individuated from what I can tell so far.

I will wait to comment further in case others would like to jump in.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Feb 11, 2019, 11:40 PM
Alexandria  Ocasio-Cortez has natal Pluto in Scorpio in the 11th, Venus in sag/12th ruling 11th house, conjunct asteroid Lilith.  She has a vision that is vastly bigger than herself.  She is rising up to be a voice on behalf off the downtrodden and for those who struggle with the inequalities that permeate US culture, relative to race, relative to gender, and relative to socioeconomic status.  Jupiter rules AOC’s natal Lilith, and this found in the 7th house in cancer conjunct Chiron.  She understands that humanity is one big family in all it’s diversity, and is incensed that certain populations in our collective are still being shunted aside on the basis of stigma and exclusionary justifications.  She has found her voice in previous lives (SN of moon in Leo 8th), and she has had some practice in generating herself as a fierce force in confronting the bullshit.  The Lilith/Venus conjunction in sag/12th shows that she views caring for the earth just as important as caring for ourselves.  Her proposal of a Green New Deal shows that her focus and desire is to simultaneously help the people and the planet.  Her Aries moon in the 3rd puts a real fire in her belly that many are taking note of.  That moon in the 3rd, ruled by mars in the 10th in libra, reflects a capacity to speak in the moment from her gut, to advocate social consciousness and responsibility.  The emphasized oppositions from her first house Uranus, Saturn, Neptune and Vesta, to 7th house Ceres, Jupiter, and Chiron show the  struggle to find the right balance between revolutionizing society and making it more equitable for all.  This of course threatens many people on both sides of the aisle, because she really is gunning for radical change, a change that many find scary or are resigned to believing can never occur. With that 11th house Pluto and all the others dynamics mentioned, she is not apologizing for having a radical vision. She is proud and secure in who she is, because she’s had to learn and fight for it. She wants to inspire others, especially the downtrodden, to find their strength and be confident in who they are too. Asteroid Amazone near the cusp of the first house is also a factor that reflects/reinforces her instinctual and spiritual strength in this fight.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Feb 13, 2019, 01:44 AM
One thing I wanted to add to all the wonderful examples provided thus far of the distorted Lilith in cancer, is the urge and compulsion to overprotect.  The psychology of this distortion manifests as a ‘mother’ who tries to shield her offspring from all of the inherent dangers that life can offer, to such an extent that the child doesn’t get the early hands-on experience of interfacing with the realities and pressures and difficult circumstances that adult life presents.  The intention springs from deep motherly love, and is benevolent in spirit, but the result can be a grown up child who isn’t prepared to navigate, negotiate, or weild his or her own inner authority when life circumstances call for it.


Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Feb 13, 2019, 02:24 AM
Another example of a distorted Lilith in cancer is the phenomena of anthromorphosizing animals.  Every spring, wildlife rehabilitation centers get innundated with baby birds who have fledged the nest and are discovered by humans who assume the baby bird has been abandoned. So they take it in, feed it things it should not eat, and attempt to form emotional bonds with the creature, which sadly often compromises the animal’s chances for survival in the wild on it’s own, due to the human imprint created at that impressionable stage in the animal’s life.  This often leads to an animal avoiding their own natural mating and feeding instincts, where they instead continue to seek the company and care of humans versus learning and applying the organic and instinctual tools that each species is born/hatched with to nurture their own ongoing survival as an individual.

Stacie


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 13, 2019, 11:29 AM
Hi Stacie,

Thanks for posting and for adding those bits about the distorted SN in Cancer.  :)

We recently covered the Original expression of SN Lilith in Cancer and opened things up to hear more about how this looks when the archetype of Cancer is distorted, so we are really just getting started.

Excellent examples of the overprotective Mother as well as what happens to the baby birds when they have 'fledged the nest' and end up in rehabilitation centers. Thank you for sharing your experience with nature in this way.

***

You can see how AOC's SN of Lilith 18 degrees of Cancer conjuncts Jupiter and Chiron in her 7th and how she nurtures her people and the world as you say as her 'one big family'. She has sacrificed her own needs for the sake of others time and time again, remembering her Original Lilith and her NN of Lilith are in Sagittarius in the 12th house. Talk about putting yourself on the front lines, in the line of fire in many cases. The ruler of her SN of Lilith in Cancer is the Moon in Aries in the 3rd and it squares Saturn, Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn in the 1st. Sounds like white man versus the Indian. Her Soul is learning how to choose her battles, and to know which ones she can win.

She has gone overboard in other times, lost her life fighting for her tribe, SN of Lilith in Cancer squares her Mars in Libra as well as her Sun which rules her SN of the Moon in Leo in the 8th, suggesting the two sides were very imbalanced but it was more important for her to die defending her people, to die for what she believed in, than to surrender.

I also see her energy similar to Gandhi's in terms of knowing that the way to justice and balance and peace is to recruit the hearts of many, to tap into their own need for what feels fair and just, ultimately, to UNITE THE WILL of the PEOPLE.  She does this by speaking simple natural TRUTHS; giving, sharing, including, something that would be music to the ears of any natural Soul.

You are correct Stacie in that she does know how to sniff out the bullshit with her SN in the 8th, this is not her first time around in themes of this regard. She lost big last time and she really is back to even the score, not for herself but for the people aka her big family.

Another way to understand her SN of Lilith in Cancer in her 7th squaring her 10th house Mars in Libra with the Sun is that her personal relationships would have taken a back seat because she was /is too busy being a warrior and fighting for many causes, so her emotional body is under-developed. She would be attracting people she can help and rescue versus those that represent her equal, so she would not have been getting her essential needs met.

She has every intention of restoring more gender balance as well and showing women what it looks like to go toe to toe with a man. I am certain her strength scares the majority of men, unless it is a natural man.

However, when people's lives and their livelihood is on the line, survival comes first. The symbols also suggest she died relatively young in battle in her most recent lives. Hopefully this life she can make up for lost time. She is in the center of the US stage at her fist Saturn return. She's has surely been here before.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Stacie on Feb 13, 2019, 12:26 PM
Hi Kristin,

Yes everything you said makes sense.  Especially the factor of having a score to settle. I love the way her soul is executing this.  Power just emanates through her physical container.  She is fearlessly taking on the man and his helpers who are rubbing shoulders with murderous cohorts such as Putin and the Saudi crowned prince. And she’s doing it as a simple, impassioned girl from the Bronx.  If she had a stare contest with Trump, I’d put a thousand bucks on Trump blinking first. 

She indeed has a score to settle, and I hope this time she is successful without having to surrender her life or get stuck in immobilizing red tape. The time seems to be ripe, but you never know..


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Feb 14, 2019, 05:12 AM
Hi All,

Kristin, i will follow this weekend with next segment if it is ok but just wish to comment on AOC and leave this video bellow, really an example of her strength in speaking the Truth, exposing the Lies, the music to our ears as you mention, with Lilith, NN Lilith, Venus in Sag. in the 12th. And her natural simplicity, intelligence, and authority - pallas/moon in the 3rd ruled by mars in Libra in the 10th, but also the natural teacher she is as well as her playful energy. Even when the subject is serious she shows a playful approach, not at all influenced by fear but by courage and laughter, so yeah i agree she has been through a lot.
I don't remember who said that when we don't have a sense of humour we lack a sense of perspective, sometimes difficult but AOC surely knows that ;-)

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/feb/08/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-brutal-take-down-of-us-political-finance-laws-video

Stacie, really loved your example with the baby birds on the distortions of natural lilith in cancer.

All the Best,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Feb 18, 2019, 03:30 PM
Hi Kristin, All,

Once again it took me a bit longer to be able to post.
Thank you for your patience,
Helena


SN LILITH IN CANCER - DISTORTIONS OF THE ARCHETYPE


ON ASTEROID LILITH AND CURRENT TRANSITS

In the light of our current pace, i was thinking to go back to the time the thread was first restarted a few months ago, try to approach the distorted expressions of Lilith in Cancer under the current transits and hope it will all make sense, specially now Lilith turned retrograde squaring the nodal axis.

I will post bellow the chart for Lilith turning retrograde just a few days ago and the chart for thread restart with Lilith back in November, leaving it open to more thoughts if anyone wants to jump in. It seems important to get a perspective based on the evolution of our studies and what the asteroid Goddesses and communicating to us.
Just some things i would like to focus:
- Lilith/Pallas have been in tight conjunction, Pallas, the Messenger, will also go retrograde at 29 Libra;
- Both charts have Uranus at 29 Aries, squaring the nodal axis; Venus/Ceres and then Lilith/Pallas on the other side of the square, creating a grand cross;
- Lilith is retrograde on the exact same degree Venus went direct last November, Venus has been current Lilith’s ruler.

With this thread we’ve been noticing how Lilith herself, the root, now in Libra conjunct Pallas is always in company of other Deities. With Juno in Gemini trine to Pluto/SN in Capricorn maybe She is suggesting we open our minds and observe what’s going on. To listen/share our different views on what we considerer equality in relationships without compromising our truth, as well as healing, recovering and keeping alive an ancient flame from the past - Vesta, the sacred inner fire of the feminine root - Juno opposing Ceres in Sag., Ceres trine Chiron at 29 Pisces, square Vesta/Mercury/Neptune in Pisces, Mercury is the ruler of Juno in Gemini, Jupiter Sag. ruler of Ceres trines Mars/Uranus in Aries. We might have time to approach Vesta more closely later in the thread (curiously Vesta was conjunct Pluto at the time we re-started with Lilith), but in these days the t-square of Vesta with Ceres and Juno can refer to need to keep inner fire alive no matter how difficult the fight for equality gets or how hard it is to let go of past grief.

Demetra George also mentions Vesta’s ancient close relationship to the moon, “The women priestesses of this time fostered the fertilizing power of the moon through caring for the water supply and tending a sacred flame which could never be allowed to die. Aside from representing the light of the moon, the sacred flame symbolized the kundalini fires of Indian yogic practice and the secret powers of sexual transmutation. The women who tended the perpetual fires were known as virgins, not because they were sexually chaste, but because they remained unmarried and belonged to no man.”*

In the light of current transits i tend to see Goddesses appeal for women to dare to be free and dare to love from place of freedom, whatever that means for each soul, now with the opportunity to heal and leave old hurts behind, as chiron crosses the last Pisces degree. Leaving behind old beliefs, Neptune in square to Jupiter, structured on man made and not natural laws, most the times relative to religious and spiritual distortions and conditioning. This meaning that we are invited to let go what still surrounds us constricting and distorting the expression of the feminine, making room for our vulnerabilities as true source of strength, accepting them, moon’s NN in Cancer, SN Lilith in Cancer, keeping in mind and heart that responsibility in self-care and self-love is maturing and tending the inner fire.
Since the square correlates to skipped steps in the making, or their resolution, we are living very exciting times with good opportunity for big leaps forward in our Spiritual Journeys. But as we learn in EA, is mostly our choice wether we leap forward or step back, or manage to do both when cardinal energy presses strongly.
My point in this segment will be that the Goddesses are calling us and They will back every single soul who will make the effort to give it a try.

From a personal perspective, it was very important what Kristin taught since we started, relative to asteroid Lilith and how we can view all the aspects of Her Story in a single asteroid, putting a light in a very confuse approach of many Lilith’s and their meanings. I do agree with Kristin that the asteroid having its own nodes, would naturally correlate to a journey from past to present to future by itself, simply understood as part of the same story, other then looking primarily at fragmented parts of Women’s souls as their whole story.

The feminine has always been full of mystery, there are always things unseen, to discover, find out, it will not end because its essence is creative and always giving birth to new life and new meaning. Nonetheless, patriarchal need for control seemed to pick up on this natural characteristic and turn it into the major flaw, something utterly wrong, to be condemned and boxed in, with a tape in the background playing endlessly. From the demon, to the bad girl and good girl, to the wife, to the saint, every woman was very easy to understand (read judge) if put in the box.
It is also possible, that astrology absorbed this distortions in some way coming out as a confusing theme with many roads to follow. In my case, until Kristin opened it this way, i tended to stay away from the subject because in my mind it was very confusing, and at some point even shameful (not that this was a conscious though). In essence, with this thread we’ve been discovering through the application of natural astrology, that women desiring to live from the depths of their roots will know there is no caged place they could ever fit in, the more they tap into who they really are the more others artificial confinements will tend to fall down, even when they take a larger scope in our lives as within a social or political context.
With asteroid Lilith there is a natural integration of all women’s aspects and stories around the absolute need for recovery of the same root, and it seems to make sense when we observe it in our lives and feel it in the depths of our souls.
We've all also been agreeing on how difficult it is to actually know what the Original form of the archetypes refer to, as there are very few souls alive today living a true natural existence, in harmony with themselves and everything/everyone around them, making it much easier to know the distortions and unnatural expressions in comparison to the way for resolution. So our only possible exercise has been so much a desire to know, discover and recover, finding a way to solve a conflict whose resolution has origins much yet unknown but definitely alive. It is a creative act indeed!


LILITH SQUARE SN LILITH IN CANCER/NN PLUTO - BREAKING FREE FROM THE OLD TAPES

With Lilith/Pallas conjunction, we’ve been graced by Pallas Athena wisdom to move our lives forward recovering true understanding of women's needs. This would be particular to each women but in general SN Lilith in Cancer meeting NN of the Moon is the return to Matriarchal teachings and ways of living. With the square, we are kind of being asked, do you really know what you need?
One of the aspects of the Libra archetype correlates to projected needs, what we see in the other as lacking in ourselves and the desire to form relationship based on this perception. Resolution node in Cancer opposing Saturn, Pluto, and we can easily confuse our ability to give ourselves what we need with lacking the capacity to do so, hence insecurity. Relationship not as a way to share ourselves and evolve in the process but as a way to guarantee our needs would be met externally, or that others are dependent on us if we continuously meet their needs. The over-protecting mother as one example.
We can say security and structure, Pluto, Moon, Saturn, also come closely linked. Whenever we can build a structure that can sustain our lives we tend to feel emotionally, psychologically and physically secure, it’s only natural. The question becomes when one of the main aspects supporting distortions with women with SN Lilith in Cancer is that these women were made to believe in a false sense of structure, again physical, emotional and psychological structure, from where to build their lives.This can take countless forms, but mostly will involve issues of codependency, lack of self-esteem or the need to be needed to feel secure. Meaning, that the structure they have known from Matriarchal times, in which giving, sharing and including sustained the lives of their communities assuring mutual trust and fulfilment of everyone’s needs, have been replaced by a tape that says take as much as you can, keep it to yourself and be better than anyone, so you can feel safe. This inner conflict, to intuitively follow inner truth or maintain security and stability following the rules, exposes a distortion in which women give away their own sovereignty and knowledge for the love of their families, partners, friends and community stability. They have sacrificed their beliefs, authority and truth to keep going, Cancer trine to Pisces, also an expression of women’s unconditional love and hope in the future of humanity.

Going back to the question Lilith is asking all of us, square to Pluto nodes, it’s probably important we don’t stress too much with the answer and trust more in the mysteries of the Moon and the answers she brings. In a sense that distorted SN Lilith in Cancer can be just that doubt. As well as depression, which can severely affect women with this south node in their origins. Depression can correlate to the natural need to stop and evaluate what’s happening, how we feel, what we need, what needs change, the same way winter comes every year to restore balance and restart spring. The right time to tune in and withdraw, astrologically the sextile from Scorpio to Capricorn. But in its severe expression, can seriously compromise the ability to function in the world, a world by itself in a very unhealthy state, a never ending cycle. Could be significant for these women not to recover in isolation but find a community of other women in similar situations, who can mutually help each other rebuilt their balance and emotional trust within themselves, others and the world around them, and also remember how they were able to heal according to their Origin and more natural times.

Lack of trust will also be a very unnatural state for this Lilith. Originally, with the trine to Scorpio, this is a powerful woman who knows and trusts herself even if that means to trust her insecurity, so others instinctively trust and feel safe around her.  She could be the mother, the matriarch of the family, the one everyone respects for her example and greatness of Spirit.
Taking this away with unhealthy and abusive relationships, either from family of origin, intimate partners, friendships or toxic workplace, the soul can weaken its light. The place where she could natural go to ground herself turns blocked and heavy, an emotional landscape she won’t even wish to get close to. Fears of all kinds can take over the soul and be projected onto others, including the fear of real intimacy, and the world around them may be seen as a very hostile place.
With the grand water trine they could be naive and trust others without the necessary discrimination of who to trust and who not to, letting in their lives abusive people. Although there is one thing these women should never be ashamed of and that is their natural sensitivity and empathy. Astrologers, phychologists, therapists or close friends usually in the best of their intentions would say to these women that they need to set up boundaries. But would also be crucial that these women are not made to believe that they need to do something impossible to their natural selves which is to block the channels from which they experience the world. That setting up boundaries would be to know who they really are and what they really want so they can make clear choices and break free, stay away, from any external source of conflict undermining their happiness and the free flowing of energy and empathy. This would take great significance in the choice of intimate partners, be conscious of the reality of sexual karma, and clearly see abuse for what it is - not trying to rescue the other, but rescue themselves.


*Demetra George & Douglas Bloch, Asteroid Goddesses: The Mythology, Phsychology and Astrology of the Re-Emerging Feminine


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 19, 2019, 10:25 AM
Hi Helena,

A keen thought to show the 2 charts from when we started to where we are now and the correlations. Not a coincidence that tr Lilith is Rx in Libra and squaring the Nodes. We have been hearing some strong female voices in the past 3 months, voices who are demanding more equality, not just between gender but between races and economic class, and these female voices are only growing.

It is fascinating too with this being in cardinal, because it is common for Souls to come out of the gates courageous and then to have those moments of pause, reflection and fear.

As you put it..

~the need to keep inner fire alive no matter how difficult the fight for equality gets or how hard it is to let go of past grief.

Think about how this cardinal energy manifests as a desire to claim who you are, the naval chakra ruled by Mars and Pluto is on fire. The energy initiates at the root as a desire emanating from the Soul and it  shoots up to the naval chakra. In time, in typical Cardinal fashion, there is a pause and the Soul says, "What the  f*ck  did I just do? and the energy drops back down to the root again to find security with these actions because of the insecurity it generates. Two steps forward, one step back. The courage will crawl back into the shell but it will in time re-emerge once the Soul feels safe or something in their world is threatened.
 

It is a great teaching how you weaved in the other Goddess Asteroids..Lilith always in company of other Deities


women desiring to live from the depths of their roots will know there is no caged place they could ever fit in, the more they tap into who they really are the more others artificial confinements will tend to fall down, even when they take a larger scope in our lives as within a social or political context.

YES. When a woman has the courage to be in the world as she was naturally designed, it will give other women the courage to do the same.


With Lilith/Pallas conjunction, we’ve been graced by Pallas Athena wisdom to move our lives forward recovering true understanding of women's needs. This would be particular to each women but in general SN Lilith in Cancer meeting NN of the Moon is the return to Matriarchal teachings and ways of living. With the square, we are kind of being asked, do you really know what you need?


Taking it one step further would be, do you have the courage to ask for what you need or to demand, claim and own what is needed, seen with Sn Cancer square tr Lilith? This tr NN in Cancer is also square Aries and opposing VS.

Is your desire to be whole greater than your fear of the past?

SN of Lilith in Cancer which can be felt now with Transiting NN of the Moon in Cancer squaring Lilith in Libra Rx, is requiring an emotional maturing process and an integration of the feminine principle, in women and in men, as well as in country. This symbol represents women going to battle now for what is fair and just. In some cases, it may be a women battling her own inner demons and fears of the past where her nature was demeaned and bemoaned, where she was kept in a box or at home to tend to the family and not allowed a full expression of her feminine self.

A South Node of Lilith in Cancer can also be a symbol for the little girl who never really grew up, tied to the apron strings of a parent. As well this can represent a Soul who has been born into family or tribes where they were forced to fend for themselves at a young age, or perhaps the Soul had an earlier exit than was typical for the time. If a Soul was living during a time where there was war between cultures and tribes, this can represent an emotional body was not fully developed, either from not living into their full adult life, or because the nature of the times did not support full expression of emotion so the Soul was forever forced to shoulder and stomach the full brunt of what they were emotionally experiencing on their own.

When a South Node of Lilith in Cancer is distorted, this Soul will carry a great deal of anger seen with the square to Aries, as a result of lifetimes living in a patriarchal world of repression, control and dominance ~VS. Along with a women's nature being snuffed out and the grave imbalance between gender, square to Libra.  The South Node of Lilith in Cancer alone can reflect recent lives where there was a focus on defending the homeland as in the native Americans trying to protect their land and their tribes. Home is everything to Souls with this signature and when that is threatened, the Aries comes out full blast and with both barrels. The Mamma Bear Roars!

Lack of trust will also be a very unnatural state for this Lilith. Originally, with the trine to Scorpio, this is a powerful woman who knows and trusts herself even if that means to trust her insecurity, so others instinctively trust and feel safe around her.  She could be the mother, the matriarch of the family, the one everyone respects for her example and greatness of Spirit.
Taking this away with unhealthy and abusive relationships, either from family of origin, intimate partners, friendships or toxic workplace, the soul can weaken its light. The place where she could natural go to ground herself turns blocked and heavy, an emotional landscape she won’t even wish to get close to. Fears of all kinds can take over the soul and be projected onto others, including the fear of real intimacy, and the world around them may be seen as a very hostile place.


Yes Helena, this can create a total emotional shutdown.

Although there is one thing these women should never be ashamed of and that is their natural sensitivity and empathy.

I agree, the South Node of Lilith in Cancer is PURE Emotion, which is their GREATEST strength. Being sensitive and empathic is a gift to embody and to share, it is about the need for this Soul to find balance with it. You mentioned boundaries which is necessary. It will be essential for the woman be able to access her center of gravity, VS, while also feeling and expressing this emotion, without reacting to the world or to events in an Aries way.

Thank you Helena for bringing your Spirit to these teachings. These are tremendously valuable insights that you shared.

It truly is a time for discovery and recovery.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Deva on Feb 19, 2019, 06:54 PM
Hi All,

Here's some additional thoughts about the distorted expression of South Node of Lilith in Cancer/4th house.

The distorted expression of South Node of Lilith in Cancer/4th house may manifest as a permeating insecurity and emotional immaturity. In essence, the Soul is seeking security from the external in such a way as to block, or thwart, the natural emotional maturation process. This may be expressed as being dominated by ones emotions and/or emotionally dominating others in overt/covert ways. For example, projecting hurt through an icy silence or withdrawing emotionally are forms of emotional manipulation. At worst, this may be expressed as overt emotional abuse because of a lack of emotional control.

 
Conversely, as Stacie mentioned, the individual may have attracted others in early life, most typically the key female figure, who never allowed him/her to truly mature, or “grow up.” The mother or key female figure may have projected negative feelings or moods when the individual made any effort to mature outside their sphere of influence. As a result, emotional suffocation takes place within relationships. The key within this is that, in both cases, emotional security is linked with this type of external dependency. Displaced emotions are then carried over into adult life and within relationships. This has the effect of sustaining and recreating the emotional wounds of the past.

Thank you again for continuing this thread. I am very grateful and inspired by what is shared here!


Namaste,

Deva


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 20, 2019, 01:14 PM
Hi Deva,

Thank you for offering some key content on the distortions of South Node of Lilith in Cancer and how this distorted expression manifests in one's inner reality and in the reality of those around them, especially with respect to displaced emotion.

In a woman or a man, this can emotionally translate into a girl in a woman's body or a boy in a man's body.

Peace,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Feb 21, 2019, 05:17 AM
Hi Kristin and Deva,

Thank you too for your words. Kristin, about your comment, i really laughed when after writing Lilith always in company of other Deities realising that yeah Lilith is now in Libra :-)

I was reflecting on what you've both said and have a question, that if you see in your experience, distorted SN Lilith in Cancer coming out more frequently as the woman having to grow up too fast, with much responsibility at young age so the inner child is not allowed to play so to speak? Or maybe this is just on the outside? I ask because i don't have many examples that i know more closely of, but the ones i know and also we can see it as far as what's public about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and how she had to work double to help her family, do fall in this category. So my question is more in a sense that when we have a SN, a past and something already dealt with, in case of a distortion of the archetype and considering Lilith relates to the inner strength, if these women will tend more to roll up their sleeves and get to work, Lilith energy incorporating Capricorn in a distorted, i would say forced manner, so to function in a man's world in a man's way, so on the outside this would be what appears to be in place, and the reality of the inner life something completely different like the emotional situations you refer?

Also Kristin and Deva i want to thank you too for your last talk at Guiding Stars on Jupiter/Mercury , really inspiring! It might sound unrelated but something you said about how sound and music balances the soul reminded me of a recent event and how specifically drums and drumming correlates to the root chakra and centering the soul, would you agree?
I will share my experience when i was having a very stressful week earlier this month. After living in the city all my adult life i recently moved back to the country and whenever i am in the city do do something all sorts of problems suddenly show up like a big "go away!" :-) and here i was in the car trying to solve things and a music that i really like with strong drumming starts playing in the radio and i suddenly felt me back into myself again, if that makes sense, all stresses away. Reminded me of something i read a long time ago about a way we honour Capricorn energy is by staying with the pace, entering the rhythm of life and ultimately drums and drumming, from ancient shamanic cultures to now remind the soul to keep grounded. I don't know if this makes sense to the fact Lilith correlates to the root chakra? Now that we're experiencing all this Capricorn energy by transit if we don't have it ourselves in our charts (i know do!), it's a good reminder to stay in place :-)

All the best,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 21, 2019, 10:49 AM
Hi Helena,

I was reflecting on what you've both said and have a question, that if you see in your experience, distorted SN Lilith in Cancer coming out more frequently as the woman having to grow up too fast, with much responsibility at young age so the inner child is not allowed to play so to speak?

Yes

Since the child is essentially thrown back upon themselves to cultivate inner security, they can be forced to grow up fast and are not allowed the 'Leave it to Beaver' childhood. This can include parents that are never home because they are working and the child is left to fend for itself. Or yes, in AOC's case, to become more responsible sooner than is ideal so there is no time to play.

This reality for a Soul can occur in the Cancer archetype whether it is distorted or not because the Soul is learning to lean on itself from the inside out. It becomes distorted because we live in a world where conditioning is in place for a majority of society.

Remember too that AOC chose this reality. We now see this was in large part to prepare for the role she would play in this country, and the Capricorn government/men she would be forced to take on.

She does have her Sun and Mars in Libra IN THE 10th reflecting her need to help out with the family. If she was working two jobs while she was young to help her family, she would not have been making her inner reality a priority, so as I shared in an earlier post this can equal emotional arrestment in her intimate relationships or a fear of being vulnerable. Most likely she would choose partners she could help with her 7th house Pluto or those who need her more than she needs them, so she does not have to step into spaces that require vulnerability. She would choose relationships where she would be in control.


***

Regarding music.

YES

Music connects to Taurus/Venus... and it really is a universal experience for music to be an emotional state changer. Venus can serve as a tuning fork for our emotions and it has a way of bringing some levity and light to all that feels so Capricorn heavy. It can help you relax or it can help you pick up the pace. The drumming in particular is so powerful in its ability to bring you back into your root and ground you, yet it can also help keep you in step with your own heart beat, the heart is ruled by Venus.

Goddess Bless
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Deva on Feb 21, 2019, 03:34 PM
Hi Helena,

Yes, in my experience the 4th house can manifest as being thrown back on yourself at an early age, either through emotionally absent parents or emotionally volatile circumstances in early life. In essence, emotional security is uprooted in such a way that the Soul is forced to mature very quickly.

Yes, personally I feel that music is a powerful way to unlock the root chakra as it accesses pure emotion. It is  a wonderful way to still my mental energy and tune back into emotional reality. Also, I have found music to be a very safe way to access and process emotions, finding strength in vulnerability (4th house/10th axis).  

Namaste,

Deva


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Feb 22, 2019, 04:17 AM
Hi Kristin and Deva,

that was very clarifying  :)

Thank you!
Helena

P.S. One more thing i remembered is how the water trines can function as compensation, with distorted expressions manifesting in a variety of addictions, including addiction to specific feelings and emotional states, unhealthy in nature and keeping the soul from maturing and accessing its natural emotional strength.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 22, 2019, 11:38 AM
Hi All,

Here is an example of the distorted Cancer archetype of Lilith and how this manifests in Ivanka Trump.
(I do not have a birth time so we will use a Noon chart.)

Notice that her Pluto in Libra squares the Nodes, her North Node is in Cancer and she is about to have a Nodal Return.

Jupiter, the ruler of her Moon, is forming a balsalmic conjunction to Pluto. The Moon is the ruler of her South Node of Lilith in Cancer and her North Node.

Ivanka'a South Node of Lilith is 16 degrees of Cancer and it opposes her Original Lilith in Capricorn at nearly 12 degrees. Together they form a T square to her Saturn in Libra, the ruler of her South Node in Capricorn. Saturn is also forming a waxing square to the Nodes.

The ongoing relationship with the past with respect to family speaks for itself.

We will overlap her chart with her father in a bit but for now please comment on what you see in her natal chart in terms of the distorted dynamics in the past leading to now.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin

South Node Lilith  Cancer 16.27

Original Lilith        Capricorn  11.31
North Node Lilith   Sagittarius  10.42


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Feb 26, 2019, 10:22 AM
Hi Kristin, All,

the fact that her natal Lilith is conjunct SN Saturn, SN Pluto, and square natal Saturn can show she has been keeping this family dynamics for many lifetimes. I wonder about the reason for Pluto to transit first all these planets before arriving then at a conjunction with her natal SN and square Pluto. Would this say she would by default tend not to take the opportunity to step away, distance herself, preferring to keep appearances and follow the rules, Saturn, when she saw things getting quite weird with her father's presidency and husband involved? In a sense she will only be in a position to see the truth about herself, Pluto/Jupiter, when she has no way out, if at all in this lifetime?

This could be also seen in her SN Lilith, i take 16 Cancer? Would put SN Lilith conjunct NN moon, with the moon in Sagittarius as you mention Kristin, correlating with dynamics of the past, Lilith, when she was overly dependent upon this family/fathers/husband, with beliefs structured on following the rules relative to what is expected of a woman, that is, being pretty and nice, all the Libra planets, even if that means subservience, the moon square the mars in virgo, in her case. Maybe with her natal sun in Scorpio and Lilith in Capricorn, this is the life in which, in all distorted senses, she is getting some power to herself as a result of this psychological and emotional dynamics, so from her point of view so far did pay off... And with this the soul is then creating a more difficult path to raise awareness about what exactly means personal power and sense of authority in the social context, from within herself and as woman, as originally symbolised by the natural expression of natal Lilith Cap.

Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Feb 28, 2019, 11:42 AM
Hi Helena,

Thanks for posting.

I will answer you more fully in a day or two.

One thing I can share for now to confirm her reality seen in these prominent signatures, is that when Ivanka's Mother and Father divorced, she was only 10 years old, her only concern was whether she could keep the Trump FAMILY NAME, because of the power, status, and wealth that came with it.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Mar 02, 2019, 12:23 PM
Hi Helena & All,


DISTORTED South Node of LILITH IN CANCER

You wrote

I wonder about the reason for Pluto to transit first all these planets before arriving then at a conjunction with her natal SN and square Pluto. Would this say she would by default tend not to take the opportunity to step away, distance herself, preferring to keep appearances and follow the rules, Saturn, when she saw things getting quite weird with her father's presidency and husband involved? In a sense she will only be in a position to see the truth about herself, Pluto/Jupiter, when she has no way out, if at all in this lifetime?

Well while she is the Queen of Appearances and appears to follow the rules, there is an entirely other world of deception going on, she is her father's daughter after all.

In fact, the View’s Republican Meghan McCain scorches Ivanka’s shallow insincerity.

“It’s the first crack in her veneer, though,” McCain said. “Being caught lying on air is a different thing.”
“For her and the image that she is so protective and vociferously, intensely shielded from — one of the reasons I don’t like her, is I don’t know what she’s saying,” McCain added. “To me, there never seems like there’s a real person in there.

She will do anything to bend or break the rules if she can financially benefit from it, especially lie, lie lie. She learned that from Daddy.

You wrote
In a sense she will only be in a position to see the truth about herself, Pluto/Jupiter, when she has no way out, if at all in this lifetime?

She will see the truth when she and her family finally get busted..and they will. Pluto is approaching her South Node in Capricorn and squaring her Natal Pluto and Jupiter. Pluto is also opposing Trump's Venus, Saturn and Lucifer in Cancer.

Yes, the themes you point out do connect to an over-dependency on family for wealth and power. She also knew being 'beautiful' (although just a manikin in reality ) would add to her power.

Not only is she a Queen of Appearances, she is a Queen of Deception. Venus, the ruler of that Libran stellium, conjuncts Neptune in in Sagittarius, which reflects her GETTING DRUNK ON WORLD FAME.

Her Venus and Neptune conjunction in Sagittarius exactly square Lucifer at 25 degrees of Virgo.

She flies all over the world with or without Daddy to be at that table with anyone who has power, meanwhile she has young children at home who never see their Mother.

***

The term PARASITE connects to Pluto, her Pluto in Libra squares her Nodes and forms a T-square with her South Node of Lilith in Cancer and her Original Lilith in Capricorn. Parasites attach to others who are powerful because they themselves are addicted to power and cannot manifest it on their own. This has occurred through the families she has been born into as well as Soul's she has been married to.

She clearly has been married to Trump more than once.

Here are their charts overlapped ~ (I overlapped her chart to his because we know his birth time and not hers)

BI-WHEEL

1. For starters, look where all of her Libra planets land...in Trump's SECOND HOUSE..$$$

2. South Node of Lilith in Cancer lands on Trumps Mercury in Cancer, the ruler of his Gemini Sun, North Node of the Moon and Uranus.

3. Ivanka's North Node is EXACTLY conjunct Trump's Venus in Cancer, as well as his Saturn and Lucifer in Cancer.

4. Her Venus and Neptune land on Trump Moon and South Node in Sagittarius in his 4th house.
Her Moon is also in Sagittarius in his 4th house with her North Node of Lilith.

5. Ivanka's Lucifer at 25 Virgo squares Trump's Moon and the Nodes.

COMPOSITE


1. Composite Venus at 9 degrees of Libra squaring the Nodes in Cancer and Capricorn.  (Note: we do not have her birth time so we do not know for sure what houses the planets land in)

2. Ivanka's Original Lilith in Capricorn conjuncts their composite South Node of the Moon in Capricorn.

3. Ivanka's South Node of Lilith conjuncts their composite North Node of the Moon in Cancer.

Round and Round it goes....Soul contracts to one another indeed, but it's not about love, it's about MONEY and all the power that comes with it.

Ivanka's Liliths

South Node Lilith  Cancer 16.27
Original Lilith        Capricorn  11.31
North Node Lilith   Sagittarius  10.42


Please add further insights if you wish for those reading this thread.

Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Mar 03, 2019, 07:18 PM
Hi Kristin,

From what you wrote i see many repeating themes around the conjunctions between SN, NN, current Lilith and natal placements/composite. If i understand correctly, when this happens the dynamics of past, present and FUTURE overlap in the current life. Would this be a reflection of mirroring a connection to Evil, in a way that he is never going to be out of the deal, so will she due to the parasitic nature of her soul?  It would make sense with the fact that her soul seems to be empty, gone, nothing there, or worst, occupied. The way you put it, parasite, says it all. Evil energy distorts everything, could we say it has taken all this woman's essence? Is there an honest possibility for her to leave that coming and going?

By original design, SN Lilith Cancer manifest her power from the Heart, by no way she could ever be a Manikin, she is full of life. She is the heartbeat!
Capricorn, her original Lilith, in the positive expression of the archetype correlates with determination, integrity, resilience and mastery of one's life in every possible adversity. In the best possible way, this could be an example chart of someone who facing evil stands up to defeat it every time until its gone, every time stronger... Which makes me think again of this case as an excellent example of the importance to understand the correct application of boundaries we talked previously relative to SN Lilith in Cancer, and how that can never be about emotional repression leading women believing their feelings and emotions are signs of weakness, but to know who they are and what they want from within.

SN Lilith in Cancer is the empath, the one Lilith who's origins relate to the water trine and emotional body.
Empaths take in everything from their environment, with special sensitivity to other's emotional states. We can imagine what feels like for this type of soul to grow up in evil surroundings. These are probably the first women to take in projected guilt, shame, not being good enough and the belief of having to work hard to be what others expect them to be, the dark side of Capricorn archetype. More so when that comes from the ones close to them, family and authority figures the soul sees as role models while growing up.
Most the time this would be unconsciously taken in, as water in Cancer simply is about feeling the feelings and emotions, creating insecurity within the soul, an insecurity based on lies, projections and distortion of their natural essences. This is also an excellent example to notice how hard it is to integrate an inconjunct, in this case Cancer being naturally inconjunct sagittarius and aquarius and the trauma that results from believing a lie and from expecting validation from the outside.

About this and how frequently plays out in women's lives, remembers me of dr. Christiane Northrup (a remarkable woman who's career has been focused on the empowerment of other women) and her strong advise. In her latest book she mentions empaths and sensitive souls tend to create strong bonds with vampires, read pathological narcissists, that initially tell them a bunch of lies, making them feel special, and use their light and life energy to feed from the light and life they don't have (of course each soul would be in this situation because of their own evolutionary and karmic reasons). She tells these women to pay close attention because in this cases they were not chosen they were targeted. And this is such a universal truth for all emphatic souls but certainly for women with their original natures coming from the Cancer sign because they naturally emanate light and love, something so absent in the patriarchal state of awareness.

Considering soul contracts you mention, maybe this is the case when the empath becomes the vampire and so on...
It would be really interesting to have a birth time though. I keep being confused about whether this is a soul conscious or unconscious about her real motives and desires. She has jupiter balsamic to pluto, moon (ruler of SN lilith) in Sagittarius conjunct NN Lilith, original Lilith is ruled by Saturn in Libra, then ruled by venus in Sagittarius conjunct Neptune. Does she consciously know to be deceiving or just leaving in a fantasy world? In a sense that would it be possible for this soul to be in any way conscious of natural law?

Thank you Kristin,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Mar 04, 2019, 09:02 AM
Hi Helena,

"Capricorn, her original Lilith, in the positive expression of the archetype correlates with determination, integrity, resilience and mastery of one's life in every possible adversity. In the best possible way, this could be an example chart of someone who facing evil stands up to defeat it every time until its gone, every time stronger... "

That is in fact the intention within the archetype of Capricorn. But in Ivanka the parasites case she has Lucifer at 26 of Virgo natally, conjunct her N.Node of Venus, and is trine to her Lunar S.Node, and square her Neptune/Venus conjunction in Sagittarius. So in her context this correlates to the opposite of the natal Lilath in Capricorn which also means becoming responsible for one's own actions, and becoming emotionally and psychologically mature. For her this correlates to DENIAL of her actual reality, and to be invested in being a VICTIM to actual reality itself. It sustains the emotional child who is dependent on DADDY: her S.Node of Lilath conjunct his Lucifer, Venus, Saturn conjunction in Cancer.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Mar 05, 2019, 01:55 PM
Hi Rad,

It's true, the last thing a parasite could wish for is the death of its host, how else could it live then?...
I always tend to look at the problem with an eye on the solution, but of course with this kind of dynamics we're in a upside down situation.
I looked at what you pointed out and really, it's the devil in disguise. We have the exact opposite of the original intent for each symbol. This woman even has the kite pattern we've mentioned previously to help her raise above all lies without getting caught (for a while at least).
If we imagine that we are seeing the chart expressing itself positively we could have this type of soul,

Lucifer conjunct Pallas/NN venus Virgo - the messenger/spokeswoman of bearer of light, God/dess, uniting people for a new future, the healer archetype
Lucifer trine SN Moon and Asc. Capricorn - personal integrity, authority and strength at the service of society
Square to Neptune/Venus Sag. - restoring lost values and natural beliefs and ways of relating

Instead we have what you mentioned and makes think if we can be discussing women Original roots/Distortion/Resolution in the cases women lack maturity, soul maturity. It seems pointless or even unreal to look at this chart and search for this soul's original feminine if her soul is still a child when it comes to knowing herself. Not that we are all very ahead and enlightened about our Original roots (as we've been seeing for the ever sense of discovery permeating this subject and discussions). It is a social/evolutionary cause even more to be discussing this things, in various contexts of society not only astrology, so more and more women can remember their Original selves. Although seeing from this case for instance, it does seem a long road is still ahead, or maybe not, maybe she is the perfect symbol, Lucifer Virgo, for collective awakening, her Lilith in Capricorn. God/dess works in many ways...
It's also interesting we're coming at this thoughts on maturity and the lack of it when studying SN Lilith in Cancer/ Lilith in Capricorn, and the distortions implying themselves women stay little girls so they don't remember or even get close to know their own authority and  what they're capable of by their own means. It's the key that keeps the door locked.

Well just some thoughts and thank you Rad for mentioning it,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Kristin on Mar 07, 2019, 11:39 AM
Hi Helena,

I checked in with Rad about some of this...so am here to answer your questions.

If i understand correctly, when this happens the dynamics of past, present and FUTURE overlap in the current life. Would this be a reflection of mirroring a connection to Evil, in a way that he is never going to be out of the deal, so will she due to the parasitic nature of her soul?

Hes has made the contract.. Prior to the current life. She has not made that contract as of yet.


It would make sense with the fact that her soul seems to be empty, gone, nothing there, or worst, occupied. The way you put it, parasite, says it all. Evil energy distorts everything, could we say it has taken all this woman's essence? Is there an honest possibility for her to leave that coming and going?


She is on the brink of her Soul essence being defined by Evil itself. She has yet to make the contract with Evil. Her Soul will be utterly exposed in this life which is underway now. As it becomes progressively exposed to her ACTUAL REALITY this will of course be put in her face, so to speak. It is at that point of progressive exposure that she will have a choice to make between accepting her actual reality, take responsibility for it, and then make inner amends to change herself. If not, if it is met by the existing denial of her actual reality, she will be given a choice after the current life to make the contract with Evil in order to sustain and actualize her desire for power, wealth, social status, and so on. If she does not make that contract she will then know, after this life, that the next lives to come will be utterly devoid of any social power, status, wealth, and so on. In fact the next life will be spent in various ways that are defined by poverty, of having no chance to change those life circumstances, and be at the mercy of those in power in the cultures of birth. This is a karmic necessity in order to counteract all the lives that have come before in which she was the parasite to others who did have that social status, etc.  

She will be informed and given the choice that if she wants to keep being in a relationship to her father that she must make the contract. She will be informed then that if she does not that her relationship with her father will be severed forever.

This is all seen/ symbolized by her Lucifer in Virgo that squares her Venus, Moon, Neptune conjunction that is conjunct her father's Moon and South Node in his 4th house, and his Uranus and Sun in Gemini in his 10th House.

I keep being confused about whether this is a soul conscious or unconscious about her real motives and desires. She has Jupiter balsamic to Pluto, moon (ruler of SN Lilith) in Sagittarius conjunct NN Lilith, original Lilith is ruled by Saturn in Libra, then ruled by Venus in Sagittarius conjunct Neptune. Does she consciously know to be deceiving or just leaving in a fantasy world? In a sense that would it be possible for this soul to be in any way conscious of natural law?


She is conscious about her real motives and desires yet in DENIAL of that fact at the very same time. She knows she is deceiving herself and others while denying it at the same time. All Souls are inherently defined by Natural Laws: the essence of all Souls. This is why if any of us violate a Natural Law we feel/know immediate guilt. She has made her ‘fantasy’ world REAL. It is that fantasy world that she has desired that is the cause of becoming a parasite to others in the first place.


Goddess Bless,
Kristin


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Mar 10, 2019, 08:31 AM
All,

Here is an artical about Ivanka's husband Jared Kurchner. I am also posting his chart: it is a noon chart, no birth time.

                                                             *****

Jared Kushner ‘will eventually be exposed as an insatiably greedy Benedict Arnold’: Harvard Law professor

Bob Brigham
Raw Story
10 Mar 2019 at 18:43 ET     

Senior White House advisor Jared Kushner was slammed on Saturday for being “the greatest domestic danger to America.”

It started with a Twitter thread by University of New Hampshire professor and Newsweek columnist Seth Abramson.

Legendary constitutional law expert Laurence Tribe saw the thread, and said, “I’m with Seth Abramson here.” ( https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1104500093577773056 )

“Smarmy, slimy, smiling Jared Kushner of 666 Fifth Avenue is the beating heart of this unprecedentedly corrupt and deeply evil administration,” Tribe charged.

Professor Tribe has taught at Harvard Law for 50 years and tried 36 cases before the United States Supreme Court.

“He’ll eventually be exposed as an insatiably greedy Benedict Arnold,” Tribe predicted.

Like Tribe, Abramson had harsh words for Kushner, who is married to Ivanka Trump.

“I’m going to tell you now the chief thing I’ve learned from many months of research for my forthcoming book Proof of Conspiracy: Jared Kushner is now the greatest domestic danger to America,” Abramson argued. “And many former US government officials know for a fact that what I’ve just said is true.”

“Whatever you think VP Dick Cheney was to President George W. Bush, take that, make it three times as sinister, make Bush ten times more sociopathic and a devout criminal, and make Cheney stupid, venal, and entirely dismissive of our rule of law and you get what Kushner is to Trump,” he continued.

“Kushner is going to get us into a devastating war with Iran. Jared, singlehandedly. Jared, to make money for himself. I’ll say now that Jared more richly deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life than [Paul] Manafort, and Manafort richly deserves it,” Abramson argued. “That’s how bad this is.”

“Whether you realize it or not, Kushner having top secret security clearance is the issue in American politics right now, as Trump circumventing our intelligence community to give his son-in-law that access is the shibboleth that made the current danger to America possible,” he said.

“We need whistleblowers to blow their whistles now,” Abramson concluded.

    I’m with @SethAbramson here. Smarmy, slimy, smiling Jared Kushner of 666 Fifth Avenue is the beating heart of this unprecedentedly corrupt and deeply evil administration. He’ll eventually be exposed as an insatiably greedy Benedict Arnold. Read the thread and watch this space. https://t.co/E1TSV520tR

    — Laurence Tribe (@tribelaw) March 9, 2019

    1/ Whatever you think VP Dick Cheney was to President George W. Bush, take that, make it 3 times as sinister, make Bush 10 times more sociopathic and a devout criminal, and make Cheney stupid, venal, and entirely dismissive of our rule of law and you get what Kushner is to Trump.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

    2/ Kushner is going to get us into a *devastating* war with Iran. Jared, singlehandedly. Jared, to make money for himself. I’ll say now that Jared more richly deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life than Manafort, and Manafort richly deserves it. That’s how bad this is.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

    3/ I’m wondering today more than I ever have before whether Special Counsel Robert Mueller has spoken to one man: Rex Tillerson. For all that Tillerson presented a danger of a corrupt detente between Trump and Putin, I think he knows *now* exactly how dangerous Jared Kushner is.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

    4/ Don’t believe anything you hear from Kushner’s attorney or from Kushner. *Ever*. The latter will always be lying to you, and the former will either be lying to you or will have been lied to by his client. I don’t know if Mueller can save us from this particular danger or not.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

    5/ Whether you realize it or not, Kushner having top secret security clearance is *the* issue in American politics right now, as Trump circumventing our intelligence community to give his son-in-law that access is the shibboleth that made the current danger to America *possible*.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

    6/ Our foreign policy is totally off the rails in a way that is dangerous, and the sole reason for this is the Kushner-Trump axis. Our values have been betrayed in ways that we may shortly feel so keenly our heads will spin. We need whistleblowers to blow their whistles now. /end

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

    PS/ The extent to which you think that Jared Kushner does or does not keep things from his wife is precisely the extent to which you think that Ivanka Trump is complicit in covert actions that should, if there’s any justice, put Jared Kushner in prison for a very, very long time.

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) March 9, 2019

                                                              *********

Kurchner's natal Lucifer is 5 Leo which is conjunct the USA's Lunar North Node. His N.Node of Lucifer is 10 Aquarius which is the Lunar S.Node of the USA. His natal Lilath is 18 Sagittarius, his N.Node of Lilath is 27 Sagittarius, and the S.Node for Lilath is 1 Gemini. 

Connect all these symbols to Ivanka's chart, and her father as well. Once seen and understood for what this is should be horrifying to any of us.


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Mar 16, 2019, 02:53 PM
Hi Rad and Kristin,

Thank you for answering my earlier questions, it sure is important to know this things and how they evolve.
Pondering on what you said and this last chart Rad posted, something happened that i would like to share based on my own difficulties in looking at these specific charts from the perspective of Lilith and the asteroid Goddesses.

I realised that in the course of these last months my own perception of the Goddesses has been evolving in a way that for me They really are alive in some form, not just asteroids out there in the sky or abstract points in the natal chart (of course we can extend this for any point in the chart from a EA perspective).
It's almost like Source has created this way to communicate directly with the human soul, crystalized as asteroids, stories and symbols we are able to relate to and understand with a human perception, because they not only are part of our evolutionary stories and paths, but they correspond to where we can find/recognise the natural expressions of our Origin, and evolutionary distortions included in the course of our collective and individual stories. Essentially, manifestations coming directly from Source i have come to develop immense respect for, in any chart. Don't know if makes sense for others...

In this context that has come to me as strong inner confusion, sadness and actually frustration, when i try to look for them in charts of souls that are themselves symbols of the distortion with no apparent or objective desire to any sort of resolution, as we have seen. Essentially, since most if not all souls are now in a process of remembering and recovering the original feminine, it is a natural process  of discovery to 'enter' the chart from distorted to resolution. But in the cases of these souls i feel it's almost like we enter the house and have to get out to find the Goddesses. So it didn't seem to make sense.
Then at some point of looking at the charts i really gave up and found myself asking the Goddesses, probably i was in despair  ;D, 'what is it that You are trying to tell here that i am not seeing?'
And the funniest thing was immediately i realised the question contained the answer. That in essence, it comes to the most simple and universal truth that what is important is that we keep our connection with Source, with the Goddesses, alive within ourselves. That we don't get to weaken this link when entering any house where we cannot seem to find Them, because what the message is in those cases is to simply open our eyes and look around. That seeing things for what they are can actually strengthen and deepen our Truth. It was quite a moment...

I am sorry if this is a personal musing with little interest anyone, i just thought i'd share it because it also might be not  :-)

Regarding Kushner's chart Rad, i don't feel i would be the right person to comment as i only have some questions at this point. I realised there is a very curious aspect to the chart that makes me wonder if he already made the contract? And at the same time he seems missing personality, like hiding behind everyone? I ask this because the chart is full of compensation and ease with the trines, a symbol JWG has mentioned also as a result of the superpowers given by the contract. And it is even more curious that this chart's crisis, the squares, almost all are related with the asteroids. What also got my attention in particular is that, between Trump and Kushner, there is strong ceres/nodes/lucifer link, doubled in both synastries probably suggesting belonging to the same family or family tree for a long time? Don't know quite right how to interpret this...
Another thing i saw that i don't know yet what it means, probably the same effect of deception Kristin already mentioned with Ivanka's soul, is Neptune strongly involved with Lucifer and Lilith: NN Lucifer conjunct S. Neptune; Lilith and NN Lilith conjunct natal Neptune; Lucifer conjunct NN moon/ NN Neptune; natal moon in Pisces...

Thank you again for your time and patience,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Mar 17, 2019, 09:17 AM
Hi Helena,

The only reason I posted Kushner's chart was to show the commonality of the soul dynamics of Ivanka the parasite and Kushner's in terms of the evil that permeates them both. Was not really expecting you or anyone to analyze it.

There is of course other lifetimes in which the Soul currents of Trump, Ivanka, and Kurshner's do intersect in terms of being part of the family lineage. One example of that would  be the life of Sophia Alekseyevna of Russia in which they all had their parts in that life. In that life Sophia was then Trump himself. Attached is a jpg of her so you can see the resemblance. Here is a link to read about that if you wish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Alekseyevna. This should help in understanding Trump's situation with Russia in this life.

In a very recent prior life Kushner was a eunuch who came to power in Iran: Agha Mohammad Khan Qajar. Here is a link to read about him in that life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Khan_Qajar. When you put that life in Iran in the context of him in this life, and all the connections he is making to Saudi Arabia, the biggest enemy of Iran, it all then begins to make sense: the evil of it. Attached in a jpg of Agha so you can see the resemblance to him in this life. In that life his Mars was in Pisces conjunct Lucifer and opposed by Ceres in  Virgo. Both were square his Lunar Nodal Axis: S.Node in Sagittarius, N.Node in Gemini.

One of the archetypes of Ceres in repeating or recovering something from the past that needs to be relived or recovered for karmic and evolutionary reasons. The connection between Trump, Ivanka, and Kushner is symbolized in that way among other symbols. There is a reason that those prominent American people in that article I posted about Kushner called him EVIL as well as his wife Ivanka.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Tashi on Mar 17, 2019, 02:25 PM
Thank you so much Rad and Kristen
I am reading, although I do not have time to post.
Gratitude
Tashi


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Mar 20, 2019, 04:55 AM
Rad, just out of curiosity, do souls in general tend to keep the same physical appearance/traits for many reincarnations?
These pictures are incredible...


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Mar 20, 2019, 08:07 AM
Hi Helena,

There really is no general rule or law for that.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Mar 22, 2019, 05:27 AM
Hi Rad,

And would it be that soul’s tend to pick up this traits from the past lives that are being brought/dynamics in the current life?

Thank you,
Helena


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Rad on Mar 22, 2019, 05:45 AM
Hi Helena,

Yes................

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Asteroid Goddesses - the undistorted Natural/Divine Feminine
Post by: Helena on Mar 22, 2019, 06:40 AM
Thanks Rad,
Helena