School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Yasmine on Dec 08, 2010, 11:32 AM



Title: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Yasmine on Dec 08, 2010, 11:32 AM
Hello Everyone,
This is my first post here, but I don’t feel entirely new to this board as I’ve spent the last few weeks reading through all the fabulous material that's archived in the message board, (which has been an education in itself).
I’ve been a little  nervous to make any posts until I felt I had a grasp of the basic concepts. I’ve read the first Pluto book and Deva’s Karmic Mission book and have just ordered Pluto volume II, which I’m really excited about!!! In the mean time I’ve been devouring everything I can find on EA.

I’m currently trying build on my understanding of the different planets squaring the nodes. There is quite a bit of information here that I am happy to have found as several of the planets are used in examples.

Specifically I am looking for information on what the "skipped step" is when Neptune squares the nodal axis. Have not seen any posts regarding this planet specifically.  With my south node in Pisces, north node in Virgo and Neptune squaring  the nodal axis, I am trying to understand this “skipped step” by synthesizing my Neptune in Sagittarius with the exmples I've read here. Since Neptune last made a conjunction to the Pisces south node, I do realize this would be where the nodal dilemma gets resolved, however I’m having a difficult understanding what the "skipped step" would be.
Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Yasmine



Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 08, 2010, 01:39 PM
Hi Yasime

Most welcome to this message board.

Well, I have Neptune squaring the Moon’s nodes (from Virgo to Pisces), so perhaps my thoughts may be of help. I am sure others will add their views.

The South Node in Pisces correlates to the pre-existing focus of egocentric consciousness created by the Soul, that for many lifetimes has desired to embrace the totality of life, or the Source: to know the Unkown. The planetary ruler, Neptune, being in Sagittarius, indicates that the Soul, in order to know the totality of life, or the Source (Pisces), has desired to align itself with philosophical, cosmological, metaphysical or spiritual systems (Sagittarius), and to live a life, or lives, which reflect the truths (Sagittarius) contained in those philosophical, metaphysical or spiritual systems. Through these types of belief systems (Sagittarius) the Soul has desired not only to have beliefs, but to directly experience the Creator of All Things (Pisces, Neptune). Because Neptune is in Sagittarius, these symbols also imply prior lifetimes in which such expansion of consciousness that the Soul has desired have occurred in relation to nature, natural lives, and it also implies that the Soul has desired to align itself with natural law.  Because Pisces correlates to ultimate ideals, and with the desire to merge with the totality of life in all its manifestations, and given that Neptune is square to the nodal axis, the Soul has created experiences of fundamental disillusionment. These experiences have occurred through false teachings (Neptune in Sagittarius squaring the nodes), manmade beliefs implying distortions of natural law, and through teachers who have lacked honesty (Neptune in Sagittarius, squaring the nodes from Pisces to Virgo). These experiences have produced massive crises involving not knowing what to believe, and how to live. This has ignited the desire and need to discriminate (Virgo) in order to establish what is true, as contrasted to what is false. Also, because of the nature of these crises, and given the pre-existing desires to merge with the totality of life, the Soul has felt contaminated by the falsity of these teachings, and has desired to purify itself from all which the Soul perceives as false, or impure (Neptune squaring the North Node in Virgo). This has created a deep and constant self-analytical inner focus, a compulsive inner criticism (Virgo).  This in turn has created other lifetimes for the Soul in which it has desired to align with manmade beliefs which sustain that human nature is essentially imperfect, and “fallen”, and that it needs to suffer in order advance spiritually (Virgo). In these lifetimes the Soul has desired to close itself to its spiritual awareness and its natural devotion, product of prior life efforts, because of the fears of spiritual contamination or dishonesty. These fears have been quite irrational (Neptune squaring the Nodes from Pisces to Virgo), because the Soul has not truly understood what the basis for these fears are, because it does not know how to interpret its feelings and desires, and what to believe (Neptune in Sagittarius):  that they are rooted in experiences of fundamental disillusionment creating the feeling and fears of contamination. Because in this configuration Pluto was in Libra, the Soul has also created desires to go on its own (Pluto polarity point in Aries), ie. not to depend on external teachers. 

Given that the motion of the nodes is retrograde, and the average motion of Neptune is direct, the last conjunction of Neptune with the Moon’s nodes occurred at the North Node in Virgo. Thus Neptune applies to Virgo, and Virgo is the resolution node for the skipped steps. This correlates to the ongoing need to discriminate, and to create a systematic approach to the inner experience and a conscious inner focus allowing an analysis, on a daily basis, of the contents emanating from the Soul, in order to linearly understand the inner experience of the Soul. It also correlates to the need of grounding and healing. Because Neptune is in Sagittarius, these symbols speak of the need to heal through direct contact with Nature, and, by means of linearly understanding the nature of its irrational fears, progressively re-align with what is natural, as experienced from within (not external teachings, not teachers, but direct inner experience-both Pisces and Virgo are yin archetypes, ie. consciousness moving back to the center). Because the resolution node of the Neptune skipped steps is the North Node, this has to be accomplished by means of the polarity point of Pluto, ie. Aries. This implies independent self-discovery, versus depending on external sources, this independent self-discovery being the natural way to validate from within that which is true and real in the Soul’s inner experiences, and that which is not true, thus creating a progressive re-alignment with natural law (Sagittarius), and with the totality of life. The polarity point of Neptune being in Gemini indicates, though, the need to communicate with some others in order to linearly process the nature of the inner experience. The resolution node being in Virgo, also implies the need to work for those who are more needed than the Soul (Karma yoga).

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Yasmine on Dec 08, 2010, 03:35 PM
Gonzalo,
Much thanks for your perspective!
I will re-read this and continue to absorb it all.
You wrote:
"These experiences have occurred through false teachings (Neptune in Sagittarius squaring the nodes), manmade beliefs implying distortions of natural law, and through teachers who have lacked honesty (Neptune in Sagittarius, squaring the nodes from Pisces to Virgo). These experiences have produced massive crises involving not knowing what to believe, and how to live. This has ignited the desire and need to discriminate (Virgo) in order to establish what is true, as contrasted to what is false.”

 
. Neptune is retrograde in my chart, (not sure if that makes a difference as to the node of resolution), however could it mean that I am re-living much of what you wrote about? Interesting that I was raised in a fanatically religious family, which resulted in a lot of confusion as to what to believe and how to live! 

Also thank you for your clarification on the Virgo North Node as being the node of resolution in my case. The Virgo node is where I am instinctively driven. Also the independent self discovery you mentioned is probably why I feel so drawn to learning Evolutionary Astrology.

(I reread Upasika’s statement and understand why I made my error with the node of resolution. I’ll post her thought again below for any other people who are new here.)

“To determine which node a planet is applying to, imagine the chart as a big circle on the floor, stand on the skipped step planet and face into the center of the circle (chart). Then turn your head to the left and the node you see 90 degrees away to the left, is the node that particular planet is applying to.”

Peace and blessings.
Yasmine


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 08, 2010, 04:14 PM
Hi Yasmine

Quote
Neptune is retrograde in my chart, (not sure if that makes a difference as to the node of resolution),

It makes no difference according to EA.

Code:
however could it mean that I am re-living much of what you wrote about?

The retrograde symbol can imply the need to re-live. Further, the skipped steps themselves imply the need to repeat, in order to resolve.

God Bless,

Gonzalo








Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: ari moshe on Dec 08, 2010, 09:53 PM
Hi Yasmine,

I love that when it rains it pours! I just saw two clients who both had the very exact signature you are describing Yasmine. Both your age. So one thing I wanted to add, was that these souls, both in the spiritual state, have lived strong lifetimes in the context of Judeo Christian monastic/religious conditioning.

As I understand, the Virgo Pisces axis correlates to just that. Relative to Neptune in Sag, this is a perfect example of teachings that distort natural law and as a result produce a consciousness of guilt and confusion about what it means to be in flesh.

Gonzalo, I really enjoyed reading your analysis.

God bless,
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: serban_p on Dec 09, 2010, 03:21 AM
Gonzalo,

Just a quick question with respect to what you wrote.

Because the resolution node of the Neptune skipped steps is the North Node, this has to be accomplished by means of the polarity point of Pluto, ie. Aries.

Does this in any way imply that if the South Node had been the resolution node, Pluto's polarity point would not apply or am I misinterpreting what you wrote? More specifically, is it not true that Pluto's polarity point would apply even if the resolution node were the South Node?

All the best,

Serban


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 09, 2010, 08:34 AM
Hi Serban

Quote
Does this in any way imply that if the South Node had been the resolution node, Pluto's polarity point would not apply or am I misinterpreting what you wrote? More specifically, is it not true that Pluto's polarity point would apply even if the resolution node were the South Node?

As I understand it, when the South Node is the "resolution node", the natal position of Pluto, by House and Sign, serves for the resolution of the skipped steps. It is specific for that skipped steps planet. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto is still the baseline for the totality of the evolutionary intentions reflected in the birthchart, except that the skipped steps planet has to be dealt with through the natal position of Pluto.

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 09, 2010, 10:40 AM
Hi Gonzalo and Serban,

Hi Serban

Quote
Does this in any way imply that if the South Node had been the resolution node, Pluto's polarity point would not apply or am I misinterpreting what you wrote? More specifically, is it not true that Pluto's polarity point would apply even if the resolution node were the South Node?

As I understand it, when the South Node is the "resolution node", the natal position of Pluto, by House and Sign, serves for the resolution of the skipped steps. It is specific for that skipped steps planet. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto is still the baseline for the totality of the evolutionary intentions reflected in the birthchart, except that the skipped steps planet has to be dealt with through the natal position of Pluto.

God Bless,

Gonzalo

****************************************************************

The polarity point of Pluto does apply when Pluto is square the Nodes. When the resolution Node is the South Node this means that the entire life of the Soul must be consistently integrated through the S.Node and it's planetary ruler: by houses, signs, and aspects. The core issue to create a 'bottom' line in which the Soul integrates not only the polarity point of Pluto, but also the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler.

The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

The natural polarity point of Pluto thus evolves the natal placement of Pluto and this core evolutionary step is thus integrated through the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto itself. In essence the Soul will recreate prior life dynamics in the current life as symbolized by the natal Pluto, and the S.Node and it's planetary ruler. The polarity point of Pluto in combination with the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, will thus create the opportunity for the Soul to make new choices relative to those repeating dynamics that come forwards from the Soul's past. By making those new choices relative to the bottom line of the S.Node, it's planetary ruler and the natal position of Pluto, the Soul not only recovers the skipped steps, but is evolving those dynamics that then allows the Soul to proceed in it's evolutionary journey.


God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Dec 09, 2010, 12:12 PM
Hello Yasmine, Gonzalo, Ari, Serban & Rad,

I have been studying this thread this morning, and it is inspiring me to write out another skipped step scenario (which I will post soon on another thread) on my day off today.  So thank you Yasmine for posting and for all the responses thus far.

After reading Rad's post, I have a question~

Quote from: Rad
The polarity point of Pluto does apply when Pluto is square the Nodes. When the resolution Node is the South Node this means that the entire life of the Soul must be consistently integrated through the S.Node and it's planetary ruler: by houses, signs, and aspects.

If the planet squaring the SN is the skipped step and is also in opposition to Pluto, meaning Pluto is squaring the NN, does the above apply?  I'm sure you already made this clear, but for me to fully understand clarification here is important/necessary for me to integrate it.  

Quote from: rad
The core issue to create a 'bottom' line in which the Soul integrates not only the polarity point of Pluto, but also the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler.

This corresponds to integrating the sign opposite Pluto and any planets that exist at the polarity point, yes?

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?

Thank you Rad and all.

God Bless,
Wendy


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 09, 2010, 12:27 PM
Hi Serban

In order to avoid any confusion, Rad's post refers to Pluto squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, ie. not Neptune. Neptune or other planets squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, is a totally different situation, to which I think what I posted before, applies.

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Yasmine on Dec 09, 2010, 01:27 PM
Hello Ari,
Thanks for your thoughts!  Very interesting your statement about those with Pisces Virgo nodes and Neptune in Sag, having had many lives within Judeo Christian conditioning. “Guilt and confusion about what it means to be in flesh”….sigh…this has definitely been my experience!!!  When I read your post I was flashed back to the two times I have gone to see psychics. On these separate occasions both told me virtually the same story, which was of a life I had during the time of Jesus. I followed him and his teachings, but at some point was stoned for those beliefs.
Also with the North Node of Pluto being in the ninth house of my chart, I assume this also implies lifetimes of deep religious conditioning (very likely within the Judeo Christian realm which has predominated throughout  the Piscean age.) 
This whole thread has given me lots to think about
Much appreciation to everyone here. Your thoughts have been really helpful!
Yasmine Perez


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: serban_p on Dec 09, 2010, 04:04 PM
Hi Gonzalo,

In order to avoid any confusion, Rad's post refers to Pluto squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, ie. not Neptune. Neptune or other planets squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, is a totally different situation, to which I think what I posted before, applies.

Can you please explain why you are making this distinction between Pluto and the other planets when it comes to skipped steps? I was under the impression that the skipped steps rules apply regardless of the planet that is making the square to the nodal axis.

All the best,

Serban


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 09, 2010, 07:10 PM
Hi Serban

Quote
Can you please explain why you are making this distinction between Pluto and the other planets when it comes to skipped steps? I was under the impression that the skipped steps rules apply regardless of the planet that is making the square to the nodal axis.

Many different variations of the skipped steps planets have been covered in this message board and have been explained by Rad in detail. Sometimes this matter becomes quite confusing for many of us. I understand this distinction is relevant for these reasons:

The skipped steps mean that the Soul has been fluctuating back and forth between the areas indicated by the house and sign positions of the South and North Nodes, and their planetary rulers; and the house and sign of Pluto itself and its polarity point. By fluctuating back and forth, none of these two areas has been developed completely, ie. to the point where evolution would require consciousness to totally embrace the polarity point of Pluto because the archetypes of the past-the natal position of Pluto-have been sufficiently learned. Thus, in the skipped steps signature the lessons pertaining to these archetypes “normally” symbolizing the past and the future have been worked upon, but they are incomplete and each of them requires further development: in some way both symbols represent the past, and both symbols represent the future. Given that Pluto and the Pluto polarity point, and the South and the North Nodes are opposite archetypes, it is necessary to determine which area has to be fully embraced by consciousness in first place, in order to complete their lessons and thus, unlock the past.

In any birthchart (without skipped steps) the integration point is the polarity point of Pluto. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto, by House and Sign, will constitute the bottom line of the birthchart: it will represent the archetypical dynamics that need to be fully embraced in order for evolution to proceed. When reading a birthchart, we need to point in this direction.

This will also be true when a planet squares the nodal axis: integration, and evolution, will occur through the archetypes of the polarity point of Pluto, and further, through the archetypes, by House and Sign, of the North Node, and its planetary ruler; except for the skipped steps dynamics, which need to be resolved by means of (a) the archetypes of the South Node, its planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto; or (b) the North Node, its planetary ruler, and the polarity point of Pluto; depending on which is the Node to which this skipped steps planet applies.

When Pluto is square the nodal axis, the totality of the evolutionary process will be integrated through the archetypes represented by these symbols (a or b), depending on which is the Node to which Pluto applies.

So, in the question you made initially about the Neptune skipped steps, if the resolution Node were the South Node, the answer would be different if that planet square the nodes were Pluto, instead of Neptune. With Neptune square the nodal axis, applying to the South Node, the integration point for the totality of the birthchart would be the polarity point of Pluto (except for the Neptune skipped steps). If it were Pluto that squares the nodes, applying to the South Node, in this case the integration point for all the birthchart (including the polarity point of Pluto), would be the natal position of Pluto.

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 10, 2010, 11:10 AM
Hi Wendy,

Quote from: Rad
The polarity point of Pluto does apply when Pluto is square the Nodes. When the resolution Node is the South Node this means that the entire life of the Soul must be consistently integrated through the S.Node and it's planetary ruler: by houses, signs, and aspects.

If the planet squaring the SN is the skipped step and is also in opposition to Pluto, meaning Pluto is squaring the NN, does the above apply?  I'm sure you already made this clear, but for me to fully understand clarification here is important/necessary for me to integrate it. 

*******************************************************************

You are now asking about another condition that can be found in birth charts. In the condition you are now asking about this would mean that the planet that is squaring the S.Node is also in opposition to Pluto, and Pluto is then squaring the N.Node. This also means that the planet that is opposed to Pluto is also within the range of being conjunct Pluto's polarity point. All of that symbolism then means that all of those archetypes have been activated prior to the current life. And all of those archetypes are in a skipped step situation. So let's make a simple example to illustrate this, and the resolution of it. Let's say Pluto in in the 4th, that Mercury is in the 10th and that this Mercury is squaring a 7th House S.Node, and Pluto is squaring a 1st House N.Node.

The core intention of the 4th House Pluto is to develop a state of inner security. With the N.Node in the 1st this would of course mean that the Soul has been desiring a state of almost total freedom and independence in order to actualize or act upon any experience that it feels drawn to do. And in so doing developing this state of inner security. Yet that Pluto is opposed the 10th House Mercury, which is square the 7th House S.Node. This would correlate to the Soul 'thinking' that in order to feel emotionally secure that it needed to be in relationship to others in general, and an intimate other specifically. The reasons that the Soul would think that can be many including not feeling that it was nurtured or loved in the ways that it felt it needed to be by the parents of origin: 4th/10th House.

So, in essence, the Soul is now conflicted within itself. This conflict would then manifest as cycles in which the Soul would desire to loose itself in the context of relationship: Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th, in opposition to Pluto. By doing this the Soul is then defeating it's core intention of learning an almost absolute state of inner emotional security. And the Soul, within itself, would know that because, after all, it's is it's own intention to do so. Thus, this sets in motion the next cycle in which the Soul then tries to throw off, oppose, all relationships in order to be free, independent, in charge of it's own life: Pluto in the 4th squaring the 1st House N.Node. Yet in reacting in this way it then has lead to the inner feeling of being totally alone and insecure. This would then lead the Soul to then go back to the other cycle of immersion in relationship in order to feel secure, and not alone. So back and forth the Soul goes within these two cycles without the archetypes of these dynamics being sufficiently developed: skipped steps.

With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.

In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.


***********************************************************************

Quote from: rad
The core issue to create a 'bottom' line in which the Soul integrates not only the polarity point of Pluto, but also the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler.

This corresponds to integrating the sign opposite Pluto and any planets that exist at the polarity point, yes?

********************************************************************

Yes

**********************************************************************

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?

**************************************************************************

In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

**********************************************************************

[/quote]

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 10, 2010, 11:37 AM
Hi Gonzalo,

"So, in the question you made initially about the Neptune skipped steps, if the resolution Node were the South Node, the answer would be different if that planet square the nodes were Pluto, instead of Neptune. With Neptune square the nodal axis, applying to the South Node, the integration point for the totality of the birthchart would be the polarity point of Pluto (except for the Neptune skipped steps). If it were Pluto that squares the nodes, applying to the South Node, in this case the integration point for all the birthchart (including the polarity point of Pluto), would be the natal position of Pluto."

**************************************

The integration of any birth chart, in total, is Pluto. The archetype of Neptune, skipped steps or not, is within the Soul: Pluto. It is not somehow outside of the Soul, thus can not be integrated all by itself. The very context of the Neptune skipped step, or any other planet that correlates to a skipped step, indeed any other astrological symbol, are all within the context, the structure, of the Soul itself. The Soul is the determinant of all things. So in the case of Neptune applying to the S.Node, relative to it's square to the Nodal Axis, the resolution of those Neptune dynamics and issues is indeed that S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler. Yet that resolution is taking place within the total context of the Soul's evolutionary journey: past, present, and future. As such it is thus integrated within the total context of any given life that the Soul has, is, or will design.

*********************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 10, 2010, 10:46 PM
Hi Rad

Thank you for this clarification. Very insightful. I think this has many implications and direct practical applications. Within this, I wonder if one application would be that the “rules” concerning the skipped steps paradigm, more than “rules” would be like “guidelines”?  And that, rather than applying a rule to a bithchart, including observation of the “mitigating factors” reflected in the birthchart, ie. other aspects to the Nodes and to Pluto, it would be necessary to observe how the interface between past/future has been dealt with and/or resolved by the Soul, and thus, where is the Soul operating in terms of the archetypes of past and future?

Then, the “rules”, including observing the mitigating factors, would refer to evolutionary/karmic processes that the Soul has necessarily had to deal with, though, when reading a birthchart, it would be necessary to ascertain, through observation, how and to what extent that processes have been accomplished. Only once this is done, it could be possible to determine where the emphasis in the reading should be made, ie. natal Pluto or Pluto polarity point.

The “rule” of age, ie. second Saturn return, would also be relative to how and to what extent the evolutionary/karmic intentions involved in the skipped steps have been embraced by the Soul. Obviously, just being fifty eight years old will not produce by itself a release in the condition symbolized by the skipped steps.
 
I have another question arising from your post, but I need to think about it to see how to formulate, so I will post it later on.

Thank you so much, Rad

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 11, 2010, 10:53 AM
Hi Gonzalo,

 The methodology of EA, and thus it's 'rules', is what it is. And it has been tested for many, many years now through correlations and observation to ten's of thousands of Souls. Of course to understand where any given Soul is in their evolutionary journey, because of the natural law of free choice, requires observing their actual reality given the parameters of the evolutionary paradigm that is called Evolutionary Astrology.

God Bless,Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: serban_p on Dec 11, 2010, 07:01 PM
Hi Rad,

I apologize for asking this again, but I am not sure that I am interpreting correctly everything you wrote.

With respect to Pluto square the nodes and SN resolution node you wrote:
The natural polarity point of Pluto thus evolves the natal placement of Pluto and this core evolutionary step is thus integrated through the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto itself.

With respect to Neptune square the nodes and SN resolution node, you wrote:
So in the case of Neptune applying to the S.Node, relative to it's square to the Nodal Axis, the resolution of those Neptune dynamics and issues is indeed that S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler.

I noticed that you didn't mention the natal position of Pluto itself in the second scenario as being a part of the resolution of the skipped steps dynamics. So would it be correct to say that the natal position of Pluto is part of the integration of skipped steps only when Pluto is applying to the SN and not when other planets are applying to the SN?

In other words, did you include the natal position of Pluto in the first scenario (Pluto square) because it is the planet making the square, or because it represents the Soul’s patterns of identity association?

If you included it because it is the planet making the square and applying to the SN, would it be correct to say that, as a general rule, when any planet (including Pluto) is square the nodes with SN resolution node, the integration of those skipped steps can occur through: (i) the SN; (ii) the SN ruler; (iii) the squaring planet (whether Pluto or other planet).

All the best,

Serban


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Gonzalo on Dec 12, 2010, 08:28 AM
Hi Rad,

Thanks for this clarification.

I had thought that the “baseline” of the birthchart, ie. the polarity point of Pluto, was the point where integration occurs. Now I see from your recent post that the “baseline” and the “integration point” are different things.

Thus, integration occurs through the natal position of Pluto; the “baseline” of the birthchart is the polarity point of Pluto, ie. archetypical dynamics that need to be consistently embraced for evolution to occur; though, this archetypical dynamics, and their outcomes (new realizations, new experiences, etc.), need to be integrated, every time, during the whole life reflected in the birthchart, through the natal Pluto.

Is this correct?

Further, I had thought that, when Pluto or other planet squares the Nodes, given that the Soul has been fluctuating between (a) the archetypes of the South Node, its planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto; and (b) the North Node, its planetary ruler, and the polarity point of Pluto; integration would occur, in relation to the skipped steps planet, through (a) or (b) depending on which is the Node to which this skipped steps planet applies. Now I see that Pluto and Pluto polarity point are not involved in this alternative: only the Nodes and their rulers are. So, through embracing the Pluto polarity point (the “baseline” of the birthchart), and South Node and its planetary ruler, or the North Node and its planetary ruler (depending on which is the Node to which Pluto applies), the resolution of the skipped steps will occur; though, all of this resolution of the skipped steps needs to be integrated through the natal position of Pluto.

Is this correct?

Thank you so much.

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 12, 2010, 09:39 AM
HI Serban,

Hi Rad,

I apologize for asking this again, but I am not sure that I am interpreting correctly everything you wrote.

With respect to Pluto square the nodes and SN resolution node you wrote:
The natural polarity point of Pluto thus evolves the natal placement of Pluto and this core evolutionary step is thus integrated through the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto itself.

With respect to Neptune square the nodes and SN resolution node, you wrote:
So in the case of Neptune applying to the S.Node, relative to it's square to the Nodal Axis, the resolution of those Neptune dynamics and issues is indeed that S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler.

I noticed that you didn't mention the natal position of Pluto itself in the second scenario as being a part of the resolution of the skipped steps dynamics. So would it be correct to say that the natal position of Pluto is part of the integration of skipped steps only when Pluto is applying to the SN and not when other planets are applying to the SN?

******************************

No. I simply didn't mention it because I thought it was self evident. Pluto is the integration point for the Soul is any and all possible astrological dynamics we can see in a birth chart, including Neptune squaring the S.Node of the Moon.

******************************

God Bless, Rad





Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 12, 2010, 09:56 AM
Hi Gonzalo,

Hi Rad,

Thanks for this clarification.

I had thought that the “baseline” of the birthchart, ie. the polarity point of Pluto, was the point where integration occurs. Now I see from your recent post that the “baseline” and the “integration point” are different things.

Thus, integration occurs through the natal position of Pluto; the “baseline” of the birthchart is the polarity point of Pluto, ie. archetypical dynamics that need to be consistently embraced for evolution to occur; though, this archetypical dynamics, and their outcomes (new realizations, new experiences, etc.), need to be integrated, every time, during the whole life reflected in the birthchart, through the natal Pluto.

Is this correct?

********************************************************

Yes, and you can understand the 'baseline' and 'integration' point in this way if you wish. The way that JWG intended and taught this is that the 'baseline' of the chart is, at once, it's natal position of Pluto, and IT'S NATURAL POLARITY POINT. And that baseline is the the integration point for the entire chart with all possible astrological dynamics included such as planets squaring the Nodes.

***************************************************************

Further, I had thought that, when Pluto or other planet squares the Nodes, given that the Soul has been fluctuating between (a) the archetypes of the South Node, its planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto; and (b) the North Node, its planetary ruler, and the polarity point of Pluto; integration would occur, in relation to the skipped steps planet, through (a) or (b) depending on which is the Node to which this skipped steps planet applies. Now I see that Pluto and Pluto polarity point are not involved in this alternative: only the Nodes and their rulers are.

*************************

Pluto and it's polarity point are indeed involved in this. The Soul is the determinant of all things via the desires and the choices its makes. If the Soul does not make a choice to embrace it's natural polarity point then the entire birth chart, the life of the Soul, will remain stagnant. Nothing will evolve. No resolution of skipped steps will occur.

***************************

So, through embracing the Pluto polarity point (the “baseline” of the birthchart), and South Node and its planetary ruler, or the North Node and its planetary ruler (depending on which is the Node to which Pluto applies), the resolution of the skipped steps will occur; though, all of this resolution of the skipped steps needs to be integrated through the natal position of Pluto. Is this correct?

*********************************

Yes.



God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: serban_p on Dec 14, 2010, 07:07 AM
Hi Rad, Gonzalo,

I’ve been going over what you wrote and I think that the issue I was having was not being able to understand the notions of “developing” something and “integrating” something.

So I have a more general question: is it correct to say that when something needs to be developed (be it the natal position of Pluto, a planet, a lunar node), this development occurs by embracing the polarity of whatever it is that needs to be developed and then integrating what is learned at that polarity point into the initial dynamics that needed development in the first place? In a nutshell, would it be correct to say that you develop something by embracing its polarity point and then integrating the polarity point into that something?

With respect to a planet square the nodes and applying to the SN that would translate as follows: in order to ensure that evolution proceeds, the skipped steps issues must be addressed. To do so, the Soul must develop the SN and its ruler (i.e., by developing I mean learning to do them in new ways). This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the NN and the polarity point of the SN ruler, and the new experiences that are learned in this way are referred back and integrated into the SN and the its ruler, thus enabling the SN and its ruler to metamorphose into new levels of expression.

On the other hand, when a squaring planet is applying to the NN, it is this node and its planetary ruler that need to metamorphose to new levels of expression, i.e. the Soul must learn to do them in new ways. This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the SN and the polarity point of the NN ruler. Once these dynamics are embraced, they are integrated back into the NN and its ruler, thus allowing for the resolution of the skipped steps.

In either case, the whole process occurs as part of the Soul’s evolution towards the polarity point of Pluto, which in turn needs to be referred to and integrated through the natal position of Pluto.

All the best,

Serban




Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 14, 2010, 09:56 AM
Hi Serban,

Hi Rad, Gonzalo,

I’ve been going over what you wrote and I think that the issue I was having was not being able to understand the notions of “developing” something and “integrating” something.

So I have a more general question: is it correct to say that when something needs to be developed (be it the natal position of Pluto, a planet, a lunar node), this development occurs by embracing the polarity of whatever it is that needs to be developed and then integrating what is learned at that polarity point into the initial dynamics that needed development in the first place? In a nutshell, would it be correct to say that you develop something by embracing its polarity point and then integrating the polarity point into that something?

***********************************************************

Yes. At any point in time any Soul has an existing reality that has already been 'developed'. And from the point of that which has been developed we continue to evolve beyond that which has already been developed. This is natural evolution. And as we evolve upon that which has been developed as on ongoing natural evolutionary process we must continually integrate this natural evolutionary process within the existing reality that we have developed at all times. This is natural and continuous process of life itself for all forms within the manifested Creation. The natal Pluto in the birth chart correlates to that which we 'developed' or evolved into prior to the current life. It's polarity point correlates to this natural evolutionary process relative to it's natal position that is evolving and being integrated all the time that allows for the ongoing evolution of the Soul. It is simply adding onto that which has already been actualized and developed at any point in time.

***************************************************************

With respect to a planet square the nodes and applying to the SN that would translate as follows: in order to ensure that evolution proceeds, the skipped steps issues must be addressed. To do so, the Soul must develop the SN and its ruler (i.e., by developing I mean learning to do them in new ways). This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the NN and the polarity point of the SN ruler, and the new experiences that are learned in this way are referred back and integrated into the SN and the its ruler, thus enabling the SN and its ruler to metamorphose into new levels of expression.

**********************************************************************

No. You are misunderstanding the nature of skipped steps which a planet squaring the Nodes correlates too. Skipped steps as symbolized in this way means that the Soul has already been 'developing' both Nodes, and their planetary rulers, prior to the current life yet has been flip flopping back and forth between those Nodes and their rulers. Thus, skipped steps because neither has been fully actualized or developed. For the Soul's evolution to proceed these skipped steps need to be recovered. And as they are recovered it requires a way of consistently integrating those skipped steps. The way of consistently integrating those skipped steps is determined by the Node that the squaring planet is applying too, and it's planetary ruler.

***********************************************************************

On the other hand, when a squaring planet is applying to the NN, it is this node and its planetary ruler that need to metamorphose to new levels of expression, i.e. the Soul must learn to do them in new ways.

***********************************************************************

Again, the issue here is not 'new ways'. The issue is recovering the skipped steps as explained above. The only thing that would be 'new' is the fact of recovering those skipped steps that then allows the Soul to continue it's ongoing evolutionary intentions.

************************************************************************

 This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the SN and the polarity point of the NN ruler. Once these dynamics are embraced, they are integrated back into the NN and its ruler, thus allowing for the resolution of the skipped steps.

****************************************************************************

What needs to be 'embraced' is the necessity for the Soul to recover the skipped steps, and how to go about doing that.

********************************************************************

In either case, the whole process occurs as part of the Soul’s evolution towards the polarity point of Pluto, which in turn needs to be referred to and integrated through the natal position of Pluto.

********************************************************************

Yes.

***********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: serban_p on Dec 14, 2010, 11:52 AM
Hi Rad,

Thank you so much for your answer and your patience. So in order for the skipped steps to be resolved, the Soul will have to consistently embrace the dynamics associated with the node to which the squaring planet is applying, and this in turn can be facilitated by embracing the dynamics associated with the ruler (planet, sign and house) of that node.

This means that there would not be a polarity point applicable to the ruler of the node to which the squaring planet applies, right?

All the best,

Serban


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 14, 2010, 12:03 PM
Hi Serban,

 Right ..............

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Lucius on Dec 14, 2010, 09:04 PM
Boy, I'm feeling a little 'tripped out' - I either have forgotten or never quite absorbed that the ruler of the node that has last applied to a squaring planet does not have a polarity point!  So, a SN aries that is the 'applying node' means that mars does not have a polarity point?

Interesting as in one of my 'square planets' rules the node that's applying & is retrograde - I had read in one of the Pluto books that a retrograde planet can mean that the polarity sign may already be developed - am I remembering this right?

Thanks!



Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Dec 14, 2010, 09:41 PM
Hi Rad,

It's taken me awhile to respond back, and I thank you for your responses to my questions.  

You are now asking about another condition that can be found in birth charts. In the condition you are now asking about this would mean that the planet that is squaring the S.Node is also in opposition to Pluto, and Pluto is then squaring the N.Node. This also means that the planet that is opposed to Pluto is also within the range of being conjunct Pluto's polarity point. All of that symbolism then means that all of those archetypes have been activated prior to the current life. And all of those archetypes are in a skipped step situation.

So let's make a simple example to illustrate this, and the resolution of it. Let's say Pluto in in the 4th, that Mercury is in the 10th and that this Mercury is squaring a 7th House S.Node, and Pluto is squaring a 1st House N.Node.

The core intention of the 4th House Pluto is to develop a state of inner security. With the N.Node in the 1st this would of course mean that the Soul has been desiring a state of almost total freedom and independence in order to actualize or act upon any experience that it feels drawn to do. And in so doing developing this state of inner security. Yet that Pluto is opposed the 10th House Mercury, which is square the 7th House S.Node.

This would correlate to the Soul 'thinking' that in order to feel emotionally secure that it needed to be in relationship to others in general, and an intimate other specifically. The reasons that the Soul would think that can be many including not feeling that it was nurtured or loved in the ways that it felt it needed to be by the parents of origin: 4th/10th House.

This all makes so much sense when you explain it.  When I try to do it, I get overwhelmed and confused.  So I would like to try another scenario.  If we replace Mercury with Saturn in opposition to Pluto in the 4th, and the SN in the 6th, could I say, the soul feels compelled to establish itself in its career through some kind of service oriented work, but gets constantly tripped up by comparing itself to consensus, criticizing itself relentlessly for not being good enough, or perfect which propels the soul into constant guilt?  

I'm copying your language here to help me get this:


So, in essence, the Soul is now conflicted within itself. This conflict would then manifest as cycles in which the Soul would desire to judge and hurt itself in the context of self-induced guilt, or guilt via the consensus:  Saturn applying to SN in the 6th, in opposition to Pluto, which defeats the soul's core intention of establishing absolute inner emotional security?

Quote from: Rad
And the Soul, within itself, would know that because, after all, it's is it's own intention to do so. Thus, this sets in motion the next cycle in which the Soul then tries to throw off, oppose, all relationships in order to be free, independent, in charge of it's own life: Pluto in the 4th squaring the 1st House N.Node. Yet in reacting in this way it then has lead to the inner feeling of being totally alone and insecure. This would then lead the Soul to then go back to the other cycle of immersion in relationship in order to feel secure, and not alone.

So back and forth the Soul goes within these two cycles without the archetypes of these dynamics being sufficiently developed: skipped steps.


So the soul has functioned in one life (or many) in one aspect of the opposition/square, and in other lives in the other aspect of the opposition/square, but has not integrated the two together in any life?  

Quote from: Rad
With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.

In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.

If the soul was embracing their Pluto polarity point and Saturn, they would essentially create a career based in self-less service?  This is a simple example.

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?


**************************************************************************
In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

Okay, thank you.  The two planets are in a crescent phase, sextile, and make numerous aspects to other planets, namely they are in a Yod configuration with the Moon, and Pluto is in the 4th house.  SN dispositor  squares Saturn.  

Thank you Rad.  I am learning more and more everyday and I am grateful for this forum.

Blessings, Wendy



Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 15, 2010, 10:02 AM
Hi Wendy,

Hi Rad,

It's taken me awhile to respond back, and I thank you for your responses to my questions. 

You are now asking about another condition that can be found in birth charts. In the condition you are now asking about this would mean that the planet that is squaring the S.Node is also in opposition to Pluto, and Pluto is then squaring the N.Node. This also means that the planet that is opposed to Pluto is also within the range of being conjunct Pluto's polarity point. All of that symbolism then means that all of those archetypes have been activated prior to the current life. And all of those archetypes are in a skipped step situation.

So let's make a simple example to illustrate this, and the resolution of it. Let's say Pluto in in the 4th, that Mercury is in the 10th and that this Mercury is squaring a 7th House S.Node, and Pluto is squaring a 1st House N.Node.

The core intention of the 4th House Pluto is to develop a state of inner security. With the N.Node in the 1st this would of course mean that the Soul has been desiring a state of almost total freedom and independence in order to actualize or act upon any experience that it feels drawn to do. And in so doing developing this state of inner security. Yet that Pluto is opposed the 10th House Mercury, which is square the 7th House S.Node.

This would correlate to the Soul 'thinking' that in order to feel emotionally secure that it needed to be in relationship to others in general, and an intimate other specifically. The reasons that the Soul would think that can be many including not feeling that it was nurtured or loved in the ways that it felt it needed to be by the parents of origin: 4th/10th House.

This all makes so much sense when you explain it.  When I try to do it, I get overwhelmed and confused.  So I would like to try another scenario.  If we replace Mercury with Saturn in opposition to Pluto in the 4th, and the SN in the 6th, could I say, the soul feels compelled to establish itself in its career through some kind of service oriented work, but gets constantly tripped up by comparing itself to consensus, criticizing itself relentlessly for not being good enough, or perfect which propels the soul into constant guilt? 

********************************************

In this example that is possible, but it is also just as possible, that the Soul own sense of authority, the Pluto/Saturn opposition from the 4th/10th, could manifest as the Soul feeling that it was more perfect than anyone else. Feeling more perfect that anyone else the Soul would present itself as THE authority to anyone, and would criticize all others who did not measure up to it's own perfect standards.

*************************************************

I'm copying your language here to help me get this:


So, in essence, the Soul is now conflicted within itself. This conflict would then manifest as cycles in which the Soul would desire to judge and hurt itself in the context of self-induced guilt, or guilt via the consensus:  Saturn applying to SN in the 6th, in opposition to Pluto, which defeats the soul's core intention of establishing absolute inner emotional security?

******************************************************************

Yes, it could be that way.

******************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
And the Soul, within itself, would know that because, after all, it's is it's own intention to do so. Thus, this sets in motion the next cycle in which the Soul then tries to throw off, oppose, all relationships in order to be free, independent, in charge of it's own life: Pluto in the 4th squaring the 1st House N.Node. Yet in reacting in this way it then has lead to the inner feeling of being totally alone and insecure. This would then lead the Soul to then go back to the other cycle of immersion in relationship in order to feel secure, and not alone.

So back and forth the Soul goes within these two cycles without the archetypes of these dynamics being sufficiently developed: skipped steps.


So the soul has functioned in one life (or many) in one aspect of the opposition/square, and in other lives in the other aspect of the opposition/square, but has not integrated the two together in any life? 

*******************************************************************

No, the flip flopping, the back and forth, would occur within the same lifetime(s).

*********************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.

In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.

If the soul was embracing their Pluto polarity point and Saturn, they would essentially create a career based in self-less service?  This is a simple example.

********************************************************************

In your example here that could happen if the S.Node were also in the 6th. If Pluto were in Virgo, and Saturn in Pisces this could also manifest this way.

****************************************************************

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?


**************************************************************************
In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

Okay, thank you.  The two planets are in a crescent phase, sextile, and make numerous aspects to other planets, namely they are in a Yod configuration with the Moon, and Pluto is in the 4th house.  SN dispositor  squares Saturn. 

********************************************************************

If they are in a sextile then it's no likely that they are in the same house to start with. Like I said each case in unique and any of us would need to see the whole chart, and to observe the individual in question. Only then can a specific determination be made about this.

*********************************************************************


God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Dec 15, 2010, 10:37 AM
Hi Lucius,

Boy, I'm feeling a little 'tripped out' - I either have forgotten or never quite absorbed that the ruler of the node that has last applied to a squaring planet does not have a polarity point!  So, a SN aries that is the 'applying node' means that mars does not have a polarity point?

********************************************************************

What sign that the Mars is in, as in any planet within a sign, has a natural polarity point within it. See below for a fuller explanation. The S.Node and it's planetary ruler, in all charts, has as it's polarity point the N.Node and it's planetary ruler.

*************************************************************************

Interesting as in one of my 'square planets' rules the node that's applying & is retrograde - I had read in one of the Pluto books that a retrograde planet can mean that the polarity sign may already be developed - am I remembering this right?


********************************************************************

Yes. Wolf taught that every sign has it's natural polarity WITHIN IT. Those natural inner polarity points of any sign evolve within the context of the sign as the ongoing evolutionary journey of the Soul occurs. IT JUST NATURALLY HAPPENS. When a planet is retrograde in a sign Wolf taught that such a Soul has focused, prior to the current life, upon that inner polarity of the sign in order to actualize the archetype of the planet that is in that sign. So, for example, is Mars in retrograde in Libra this would mean that that Soul has desired, focused, on evolving the Mars archetype within the natural Aries polarity that exits relative to Libra. Thus, that Mars archetype in Libra is essentially actualizing the whole of the Libra archetype through it's natural polarity: Aries. And this polarity would then be the lead point of how the Mars in Libra entered into, the orientation too, relationships. If Mars were not retrograde then the Mars in Libra would enter relationships, the orientation too, in the typical Libra way: codependent. This lead point would then be progressively evolved towards the natural polarity of Aries as the Soul's life unfolded over an entire lifetime.

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: Neptune Square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Dec 17, 2010, 01:36 PM
Quote from: wendy
Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?

Quote from: rad
In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

Hi Rad,

I realize I didn't make myself clear in my question above.  My question was if the North Node, plus the planetary ruler of the South Node are in the same sign and house (not both nodal planetary rulers) does that lead the soul towards further temptation regarding continuing in the 'skipped steps' mode.  

In looking at my question more closely, I think the answer is no.  I think/feel having the NN and the ruler of SN in the same sign and house would enhance the possibilities of the soul moving towards the intended evolutionary direction more readily.  Any thoughts?


Quote from: rad
With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.  In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.

If the soul was embracing their Pluto polarity point and Saturn, they would essentially create a career based in self-less service?  This is a simple example.

Quote from: rad
In your example here that could happen if the S.Node were also in the 6th. If Pluto were in Virgo, and Saturn in Pisces this could also manifest this way.

My intention here is to try to put into words how this above aspect to the nodes would express in the houses, as you did in your examples earlier.  I have to run now, but will come back to ask another question. 

Thank you for giving us (me) the opportunity to explore EA on this forum. 

God'dess Blessings,
Wendy