School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 01:43 AM



Title: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 01:43 AM
Is there anything particular that I would need to understand more fully, if a chart has 4 planets, including Pluto, square to the nodes? I mean, is this extraordinary or unique in some way? - because I know I have never seen this many planets square the nodes before. (Although I have only seen limited number of charts thus far on my astrology path.)
I would assume the the NodaL Axis itself is highly charged with flip-flopping back and forth... but I have a sense that there may be something else I might need to understand? Is this quite rare?

There is also a Mystic Rectangle formed with Saturn, which is one of the planets square the Nodes. That shape is rare itself.
 Hmmm?

I would truly appreciate any comments.

Thanks,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Jan 12, 2011, 10:07 AM
Hi Dhyana,

 It is not COMMON to find such a pattern. In the case that you are dealing with the core clue as to why that Soul has this pattern of skipped steps is deep, unresolved, traumas that have been quite severe. If you can unravel what the nature of those traumas have been you will then be able to understand the nature of the skipped steps, and why.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Jan 12, 2011, 10:39 AM
Dhyana I have a very similar chart with the same 4 planets plus Chiron square the same nodes.  I would be happy to look further into the chart with you if you like.

God Bless,
Wendy


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 01:47 PM
Hi Rad, Wendy,

Thanks for responding. I have just recently sent the woman a few more questions in order to get more tuned into her and hence the nature of the trauma. I do sense from her that there are strong control issues, especially around her children and health, as well as how she and her children appear or show up in society. Now I have to find out WHY.  I am hoping the questions I posed to her shed some more light on the core issue. I will describe what I sense further, after I hear back from her. I feel she is late 3rd individuated moving into 1st stage spiritual, or perhaps in first stage spiritual already.
She was raised Roman Catholic and is aware the she is carrying a lot of conditioned guilt from patriarchal religious conditioning. She is seeking a more natural spirituality  now, and she has become a rieki practitioner. She is also aware of her overly active analytical and critical mind. (Pluto in 3 Virgo). I also feel the inflation of the Leo Archetype quite strong in her.

Wendy, Sure, anything you might want to share based on you having these skipped steps(with the same Nodes even!)would be truly helpful.

Thanks --more later,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 05:40 PM
Rad, or whomever,

In regards to the chart I have posted here- is it correct to say that the North Node in the 11th Gemini, is the Node that last formed the conjunction to Pluto, Uranus and Mars, therefore Mercury in the 10th in Aries (correction of house in purple)  is the way to resolve those skipped steps?

AND ...

...the Node that last formed the conjunction to Saturn and Chiron is the South Node in Sagittarius H5, and therefore Jupiter in Gemini, would be the way to resolution for both Saturn and Chiron skipped steps?

Am I following this correctly?

Thank you for your any support, feedback about the natal chart in question, and confirmation on the above.

Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 05:57 PM
Hi Rad,  (and others)

RAD SAID: "Hi Dhyana,

 It is not COMMON to find such a pattern. In the case that you are dealing with the core clue as to why that Soul has this pattern of skipped steps is deep, unresolved, traumas that have been quite severe. If you can unravel what the nature of those traumas have been you will then be able to understand the nature of the skipped steps, and why.

God Bless, Rad
"

In following up with what you said in your reply to me above--

After speaking with this woman again, I feel that there is trauma in these areas -
ADDED LATER Please note however that when I asked her if there were any trauma in her life or traumatic themes, she said there wasn't , then she asked if I would consider ("count") #3 below as traumatic.

1.) With children-- feeling overwhelmed by them, not understanding them or their needs, concerned about they way the children (as a reflection of herself) "show up" in society. And all this going on, at the same time, she is fearing for their well being --hence (with all that) feeling the need to control.

2.) Trauma related to her values and her self worth outwardly seeks approval of authority (described herself as a "brown-noser" in her youth) and then feels like she cannot live up to it. She feels she is still doing this on some level in her adult life.

3.) Trauma related to her individual creative self expression.
She mentioned that she really had no traumatic events in her early childhood, but she said "does this (the following)count?" --when she was 13 she was going to be sent off to Cananda School of Dance to become a ballerina, but she had a back injury right before she was scheduled to go and her "career" and "dream of being a famous ballerina" was ruined. She said after this, she began to get involved with the wrong crowd, began a drinking habit and gave up on her own creative self expression.

Does this follow with what your pointing to in regards to the nature of the traumas? What might I look to in order to move more deeply into these traumas? ...and the WHY of the soul (intention).

I am contemplating her Pluto and PPP to go deeper into this.... it is still not all "clicking" yet~

Thank you for any help in this direction.

Love,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 06:51 PM
Well,I've been contemplating a little on the WHY of it...

... a Pluto in Virgo soul creates crisis in order to facilitate critical self analysis. There is a humbling in that, that occurs. This is to perhaps humble the inflation of the Leo Archetype (5th SN) so that it can get more of a sense that it is not all powerful? To become less self involved, less dramatic -- "the world does not revolve around me"  and thus cultivate more objectivity (Aquarius / 11th NN). To get some space from it's own bubble. Ultimately to bring it's gifts to society, but in a way that isnt about "showing off" but "showing up".
( Yes??, am I on the right track?)

-------
So in essence, the squares to the nodes are inviting her to embrace the traumas related to these things (1,2,3 listed). Looking inside to the hidden agendas she has for those dynamics to be in place to begin with (listed in 1,2,3,)
.
Instead of continually trying to persue them (gaining approval, having perfect children,being "a star", etc -- unconciously, thus creating more of the same cycle.

Of course, I know there is more that will unravel here, but this is where I am with this chart for starters.

Does this follow along well with what the chart shows as far as skipped steps?




Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 07:31 PM
A few days ago, I had an image come to me about this woman. I have no idea if I was just conjuring this image up (from one too many movies), or if there is some validity to it? I feel akward bringing it up, (but I will anyhow because I just am tired of being concerned with things like that in realtion to an image of myself.) --just in case there is something to it.

I had this image of a classroom, or a one room schoolhouse, set back in like the 1800's or something. And she was a teacher there. She was responsible for all of these kids, and then something went wrong and these children were all screaming and crying and she could not control what was happening. There was violence, and deaths ... and ultimately, she blamed herself for it.

Well, that was the imagery /story I had seen in my minds eye late one night before bed.


A day or two later after I had this image, she had told me that her father in this life, was a school teacher. (i might be reading too far into that --i don't know?)

I just thought I would mention it here on this board because I feel it is a safe place to check out things  like this...

Thanks for being a place such as this.

Lovingly,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Linda on Jan 12, 2011, 09:02 PM
Hi Dhyana,

I'm sure Rad would instantly see what's going on with this chart.  However, here are a few of my own insights/ideas.  I would be interested to know whether they are on track.

Okay, after examining the "bottom line" Pluto dynamics (the crisis of how to raise her children and what to teach them, especially how to survive in this world) and the PPP (communicating spiritual teachings) - since there are so many skipped steps do we still need to look at these Pluto dynamics or do we go straight to the skipped steps?  Separately, the aspects are:

Saturn (9th) opposite Pluto/Uranus/Mars - cataclysmic, sudden, traumatic, extreme, evolutionary change through ideological crisis.  Pluto is forcing her to express the spiritual truth of natural laws to her own children (5th, Saturn's ruler is Neptune 5th, Mercury inconjuncts Neptune) which she doesn't feel ready to do, or is making excuses.

Uranus/Mars conjunct Pluto - balsamic - surrender to a higher will, the end of an evolutionary cycle.  Perhaps the crisis is:  "What shall I teach my own children? - the dictates of a distorted society for survival purposes, or natural laws for which faith and surrender are necessary?"  The ruler of Pluto, Uranus and Mars is Mercury/Aries/10th - mental trauma in public to speak the truth, and the failure bringing crisis then self-analysis, purification and change.

Pluto/Uranus/Mars squares the Nodes - she has missed these steps, which are being re-lived and resolved through the Resolution Node, NN Gemini 11th, by learning how to be a member of a group, by using discretion in her choice of communication, by daring to be different, or by allowing her children to express their differentness?  Not sure if this makes sense, but could the 11th house group be her own family?  Facilitator of the NN is Mercury/Aries/10th which itself is the ruler of Pluto - what she had learned from her father - the resolution to the skipped steps being to stop listening to that old voice of authority, and to express her own unique voice, and to accept the uniqueness of her own children?

Ruler of her 4th house is Venus/Taurus/11th.  And ruler of her 2nd house is Sun/Taurus/11th, the Sun showing the main purpose/expression in this life.  Ruler of her 5th is Pluto.

Saturn squares the Nodes - skipped steps - resolution node is the SN Sagittarius 5th ruled by Jupiter/Gemini/11th (conjunct NN).  She had attempted to resolve these skipped steps but flip-flopped back and forth from the 5th to the 11th.  And what are the skipped steps?  To communicate the truth of natural law to her own children in a natural intuitive way, and to allow her children free-expression in line with natural law?  Lucifer is conjunct Jupiter, does she feel a weakness to actually speak the truth?

So BOTH Nodes are the resolution nodes to the skipped steps of 5 planets (including Pluto and Chiron).  

What does Rad say?


PS: (Added later)  Did you notice that all three outer planets, Pluto, Uranus and Neptune are Retrograde? I feel the Mystic Rectangle (made up of Pluto Rx / Uranus Rx / Neptune Rx / Sun / Saturn) really brings all those difficult aspects together whereby she is able to overcome them through the power of this M.R. bringing her endless possibilities for transformation and change, and especially to express her special communication in an authentic manner.


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 12, 2011, 09:17 PM
Hi Linda,

Thanks for jumping in! I often feel like I am writing into a vacuum (tee hee) ...(but that is a common feeling for me anyhow, not just on a MB of course). So the support you offer is  so very appreciated. I sense you are on the right track in many ways!!!

I have more to write,but I am in my car right now so I will have to do it later.

Thanks so much. I will contemplate this that you just shared while I drive --let it all sink in...

Very Grateful,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Linda on Jan 12, 2011, 09:23 PM
Thanks Dhyana for your support too!

I have dared to submit a few of my own insights (especially after the Solar Eclipse fell smack on my Mercury in Cap!) - and I'm really looking forward to hearing what Rad has to say about this chart.  It's a challenging one for sure.


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 13, 2011, 12:28 AM
Linda,

I, for one, am very glad that eclipse fell on your Mercury in Cap, making you more daring-- to show up and speak your insights and wisdom.

Love,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 13, 2011, 12:41 AM
Linda,

OH, i just found this you added later-
LINDA SAYS: "PS: (Added later)  Did you notice that all three outer planets, Pluto, Uranus and Neptune are Retrograde? I feel the Mystic Rectangle (made up of Pluto Rx / Uranus Rx / Neptune Rx / Sun / Saturn) really brings all those difficult aspects together whereby she is able to overcome them through the power of this M.R. bringing her endless possibilities for transformation and change, and especially to express her special communication in an authentic manner.[/color]

I actually hadn't noticed the Rx. I was so taken by the four planets plus Chiron squaring the Nodes, I didn't even take notice or ponder the Rx's yet. Does that (rx) help support to overcome? I'm not sure I understand that in relation to the Mystic Rectangle? --but I'd like to understand. I catch an inkling of what your pointing to, but it's a stretch for me to really understand this? Might you say a little more?

On another note, or also, isnt the nature of retrograde function; relive, redo -- hmmm?

Here is something that is perplexing me with her ...I kind of wonder (in my interactions with her) why she feels so bubbly and describes her life as not being at all traumatic if there are three Rx planets, Pluto/ Uranus/ Mars Conjunct opposing Saturn, plus all these skipped steps. She seems so upbeat, positive, jovial and enthusiastic  (not saying that is a problem) but she just seems OVERLY positive and overly bubbly sometimes --it's just a feeling I get from her, not sure -hmmm??. I sense she has the ability to glaze over things, and deny or deflect from deeper issues. Well,  she does have Neptune Rx opposing the Sun. Or maybe this (the tendency to be overly upbeat, and deny or deflect from deeper issues, that I am sensing) is part of the issue over-top of these skipped steps??? I wonder??? After all, Rad said "In the case that you are dealing with the core clue as to why that Soul has this pattern of skipped steps is deep, unresolved, traumas that have been quite severe." Maybe she feels compelled to stay upbeat as to avoid the underlying energy in these skipped steps???

Looking forward to hearing from Rad too.

Peace,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 13, 2011, 03:07 AM
LINDA WROTE;  "Not sure if this makes sense, but could the 11th house group be her own family?  Facilitator of the NN is Mercury/Aries/10th which itself is the ruler of Pluto - what she had learned from her father - the resolution to the skipped steps being to stop listening to that old voice of authority, and to express her own unique voice, and to accept the uniqueness of her own children?"

Linda,
This makes a lot of sense to me, given what I (we) know about her dealing/experience with her son (That she just cannot understand why he is so different and rebellous, from the rest of the family.)

I also know from speaking with her that her father adored her when she preformed and he was the one to drive her to all her dance classes and recitals etc. He had a lot of pride in his daughter and her talents, so she expressed to me. He was a school teacher also, and her grades were always wonderful, and her father took a lot of pride in that too.

-So yea there is the flavor there...  keeping up the family ideology/the family's face in society --making sure her own children, as a reflection of her, "fit the mold" and don't rock the boat, fit the picture (great-picture-perfect-everything-is-rosy-family) in place, so to speak.  So this would make a lot of sense what you said, perhaps THE FAMILY BEING THE 11TH HOUSE GROUP.

Everything that you wrote makes a lot of sense to me.


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Jan 13, 2011, 07:50 AM
Hi Dhyana,

After reading all the input thus far, everything said so far reveals truth about this soul (although I don't know much about rectangle aspects).

My chart is similar in that I have the four planets square the nodes (Venus in instead of Mars) in the same signs (1965).  Rad is surely right on, anyone with outer planets conjunct personal Mars square the nodes has had an extraordinary amount of trauma...plus her NN in the 11th, and Uranus in the 2nd.

Everything we have learned on this thread about Virgo, applied to Pluto Uranus conjunct in Virgo is very telling (depth of suffering the Virgo archetype has gone through in Patriarchal times is immense, plus the Pisces need to hide).  Those planets in opposition to Saturn (outer-inner authority) which then opposes Mars.  First Uranus Pluto in opp to Saturn--an outer authority had dominion over this soul, or this soul used her power (Pluto) to overpower others.  My guess is she attempted to utilize her power and was overpowered by an outer authority.  Add Mars...violence and war, to the death.

Now...have to look at chart and will return to add more.

Inconjunct Mercury-Neptune (10th-5th)...her challenge is to speak up and teach (9th house Saturn-Chiron) some form of healing-spirituality, or to become an authority on, or attain knowledge of those things, but before she can access her Saturn/Chiron (skipped step), she has to delve deep into her Pluto.  

She has done all of this in the past (four planets square the nodes).  See if you can find what makes her truly angry, that would reveal her deepest soul passions/desire/resentments (Mars/Pluto/Saturn).

Pluto Uranus retrograde individuals typically either want to goes to any lengths to get in touch with their soul, or they avoid it like the plague (that is my understanding).  

Virgo's can be excellent athletes, especially with Mars in Virgo, she was likely to have been an excellent dancer.  Trauma to her back just before going away to school....sounds to me like Virgo guilt created/induced the scenario or past life memory of moving into success (2nd house) and suddenly all hell broke loose, so her pysche/body could not support the movement forward.

Taurus Sun conjunct Venus, she is beautiful, in opposition to Neptune, ruler of PPP.  Sun could represent her father, Neptune boundaries...they surely have past life connection...he pushed her beyond her physical limitations, beyond her body, and her mother, the moon in Leo very jealous, square to Venus Sun, of their relationship, and not available to meet her daughter's needs, or protect her.

I would venture to say there is sexual/physical abuse--Taurus/Scorpio axis--in this life and past lives.  Her joyfilled facade covering up her deeper truth.  Expressing her beliefs (Jupiter) via the body (Venus) as a blessing for humanity/children (11th house) brought death/war to her.  She knows what it means to be powerful and she knows what it means to be disempowered.   Leo Moon 1st house sextile Jupiter, the soul was attempting to discover and radiate her own beliefs, her own truth.

As mentioned before, definitely loss of children, as well as her creative dreams, power, sexuality.

This woman's soul will hide in Pisces until she has the support, from the feminine (Virgo) to come out.

Hope this all makes sense, it's a bit scattered....

Love, Wendy

Also Saturn, missed step, is about taking responsibility for the soul, and it's many experiences and ultimately being empowered through teaching forgiveness, oneness (Pisces-knowing the almighty-the universe-the Goddess is in charge) via the lens of discernment (Virgo) applying the soul's inner knowing, knowledge, intuition and communicating that knowing in a logical, right brained fashion (Gemini), in an 11th house way (radical, awakening, shocking, transformational).

Added later....I would even go as far as saying--this soul, this woman--has brilliance and her knowledge was misused by the collective authorities (or she was one) which brought destruction to the masses!  Now she could use her brains and intuition to bring forth healing for her soul especially, as well as many others, if she accesses her trauma and PPP.



Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Jan 13, 2011, 10:17 AM
Hi Dhyana,

 First, it's wonderful that Linda and Wendy have involved themselves in this thread, and making the effort to apply the EA that we have been learning.

 I don't have much time today due to a heavy work load but will say this so that hopefully it will give you a foothold to keep going. First, the reasons for the traumas, which have all preceded the current life, have occurred because this is a Soul that has disparately been wanting to keep 'reality' in a tight little box that she could have complete control over. And in that box was a reality that needed to shut out the totality of life where the totality of life equals all the ugliness that life can be. Many lives like that which were themselves preceded by some truly horrific lives/ traumas that then lead to the compensatory lives in which this box of control was created to blot out anything of an ugly or unpleasant nature. The image that flew into your consciousness Dhyana of one of her past lives/ trauma was correct. The son that she has in which she can not understand the why of his rebellious behavior is the symbol for her own unresolved traumas, and a symbol of that which is beyond the boundary's of her box of control. So, of course, from an EA point of view WHY this type of son ?

 I need to say this too: In cases like these it is very important to simply follow the lead of the client, and to only go where they want to go. It is not our job as EA people to force into anyone's consciousness that which they are not prepared to receive. Here on this mb we can of course unravel and see the truth of any given Soul through the lens of EA. But that is for us here. So the issue now for this women that you are working with is to simply answer the questions she is asking you. If in the course of interacting with her in the context of her questions, and the answers that you have for her, this naturally leads to deeper questions as the to 'why' of something it becomes necessary in her nature, the S.Node in Sagittarius, the 9th House planets, to pose Socratic type questions that have the answers contained within them. By posing such questions, and leaving it as questions, if she then wants to privately ponder those questions honestly then the answers will occur within her in her own natural time.

 There are deep, deep reasons and causes that have lead to her own desire to create the box of control that has lead to just wanting life to be ok, NORMAL ! The box has been created as a form of Soul survival that can allow her to carry on in the ways that she does. This is also one of the great reasons that God/ess has placed a veil within the consciousness of most that does not allow them to see the past lives that they have lived. If most could do that they simply could not carry on with the business of the current life that they are living. So we must be very, very aware of this Natural Law so as to not transgress it in a way that could harm another. So, again, just follow her lead.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Jan 13, 2011, 10:41 AM
Thanks Rad for highlighting what is most important to each soul we interact with via astrology in any form.  I appreciate the reminder and to always care for each being we relate with in mindfulness and respect--to meet them where they are without attempting to change them.

Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Linda on Jan 13, 2011, 02:42 PM
Thanks Rad for your guidelines in how to deal with clients, not to push them further than they are able to go, so that we don't transgress Natural Law, the veil placed over the traumatic events of past lives.

We now understand the reasons why this woman comes across as jovial and joy-filled all the time - for that is her way of coping - by naturally blocking out the traumatic past - and maintaining a tight 'box of control.'  

I feel that Mars and Uranus in very late balsamic conjunction to Pluto means surrendering those past violent events and traumas of the Soul to the Divine - to let go of them completely - and not to reawaken them - for that cycle is ending - and her Soul is getting ready for a new one.  

She does want to understand her son's behaviour though because he is so 'different.'  The question is: Why this type of son?  How can we serve her in the way that she needs?  How do we pose Socratic-type questions that have the answers contained within them, bearing in mind that her son is the symbol for her unresolved traumas?


Added later:

The Socratic method:   Socratic questioning is a series of systematic, deep and disciplined questions which are posed to help a person to determine their underlying beliefs, and the validity of their beliefs, so as to assess their meaning, truth, or plausibility.  Asking questions is used instead of lecturing and telling.

Socratic questioning has also been used in cognitive and psychotherapy.  The purpose here is to help uncover the assumptions and evidence that underpin people's thoughts in respect of problems.  Careful use of Socratic questioning enables a therapist to challenge a person's illogical thinking while maintaining an open position that respects the internal logic to even the most seemingly illogical thoughts.

Examples of Socratic critical questioning:

1.  To clarify their thinking:   "Why do you say that?" - "Could you explain further?"

2.  Challenging their assumptions:  "Is this always the case?" - "Why do you think that this assumption holds here?"

3.  Evidence as a basis for argument:  "Why do you say that?" - "Is there reason to doubt this evidence?"

4.  Alternative viewpoints and perspectives:  "What is the counter argument for?" - "Can you see this another way?"

5. Implications and consequences:  "But if what happened, what else would result?" - "How does...affect...?"

6. Question the question:  "Why do you think that I asked that question?" - "Why was that question important?" - "Which of your questions turned out to be the most useful?"


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 13, 2011, 03:55 PM
Thank you Wendy, for writing all of that. Linda, well--for everything!

And Rad, I have to really just sit with what you said for a couple hours before I write anything. I just wanted to say thank you very much. What you wrote nearly brought me to tears (for many reasons).

This woman has really connected with me and is giving me her trust --I can feel that.. so I must be very careful. Rad, if you might say a little more about what might be best to focus on with her, I would really appreciate that. I had already shared with her about her son's chart. Her difficult experience with her son is why she intially approached me for support (she attend my mothers Unity Center and my mom referred her to me.) She was so very greatful after I shared with her about her son. She said she saw him in an entirely new light and felt so much compassion for him after what I shared with her about him. It was bc she felt so moved by what I shared with her son, that she now is asking I do the charts of her and all her family members (her husband and other son).

So, with that said, maybe you can support me in knowing the best way to support her and her family through the EA paradign.  And yes, I will follow her lead...

more after i sit with this much...

All Love To You,
Dhyana

ADDED LATER- Chart of one of her sons (the "difficult one"). (This is the chart of the son, I already shared with the mom about.) My feeling is that in looking at his chart through the lens of "him being a reflection of her unmet traumas" may shed even more light. Also, if you look at the transit's you can see why the mother is stimulated to seek out support at this time. It is really fascinating -- the synchronistic nature of things... My goodness, astrology truly does CORRELATE so beautifully


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 13, 2011, 04:08 PM
Linda, and Wendy,

I am now slowly reading over what you posted. I only read it once so far, and it takes me a couple reads before I absorb. So I will be responding soon to those. I am just letting Rad's response settle in first.

So Grateful for all this support,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Katlil on Jan 13, 2011, 06:20 PM


          I have no clients or anything, but my daily life with its different connections. Still it feels really,
          really valuable and healing to read about this treading gently & careful, with consideration and
          respect.

          Need to be constantly reminded of this, both in relation to myself (including asking for it, for my-
          self/boundaries) and others. Very uplifting and comforting
       
          Thank you Rad, and all Contributors here..

          Katlil/Katrin


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 13, 2011, 06:33 PM
Katill,
I hear ya!

Lovingly,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 14, 2011, 01:48 AM
The list of questions you posted Linda are very helpful and I certainly got a better idea of what Rad was saying with your posting those. I thnk you for the effort you put into doing so.

It is really amazing how this thread, and what Rad posted penetrated on many levels.
It seems, as I look at the comments I was certainly not the only one to feel that!


With a SN in Scorpio in the 9th Conj, Mercury and Neptune, and a 7th house Pluto, etc etc, I have spent a lot of my time in this life prodding people in my life to meet the deeper, darker, traumatic, heavy etc. things they never even invited me to prod them towards. I thought because I saw /felt them,I had to do something with it... with what I saw/felt -- Like it was my duty to do something with it.  Wow.
...I am just like sitting here and this has gone in pretty deep....

This thread had a very profound effect on me and I am now really just sitting here without something I thought I had, and I did not even realize what I was doing with what thought I had, which is the funny thing! It is not "mine" to use any way I please!  This is very liberating, yet at the same time I am going through a sort of adjustment to what just happened.

The other thing is this... I too have the Pluto/Mars/Uranus in Virgo opposing Saturn conj Chiron in the 1st (and part of 2nd house) in Pisces -- and although those particular planets do not sqaure my Nodes, I know that there is an energy to that combination that when the lid comes off that pandora's box, you need a real foothold in that which we come from, Source,Creator, God/Goddess/Self.. whatever we want to call it, bc there are times that madness can come in--truly, I know this from direct experience. So when Rad wrote that I just... well, I just had to stop there -- I recognized it! I was stopped in my tracks there. I know directly what he is saying there... But he also brought something home to me there!

I have not been able to concentrate on this chart, or to comment more today about this specifics there-in bc I feel like some kind of integrating adjusment is happening inside.

I am really not sure now what is  to share and what is not.... and in this case, with this woman. I will have to ask her specifically what she wants to understand. I will do that.

Thanks for listening. Goodnite. Shall check in tommorow as this all settles in.

Peace, Compassion
 and Gratitude,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 14, 2011, 07:28 PM

Dear Rad,

I pulled out these 2 questions from LInda's post. I was hoping you might respond to them I know you have a heavy load of work, but it would be very helpful to hear your response to these, when you get the time.

Thank you,
Dhyana




I feel that Mars and Uranus in very late balsamic conjunction to Pluto means surrendering those past violent events and traumas of the Soul to the Divine - to let go of them completely - and not to reawaken them - for that cycle is ending - and her Soul is getting ready for a new one.  

She does want to understand her son's behaviour though because he is so 'different.'  The question is: Why this type of son?  How can we serve her in the way that she needs?  How do we pose Socratic-type questions that have the answers contained within them, bearing in mind that her son is the symbol for her unresolved traumas?





Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 14, 2011, 07:42 PM
Rad,

Also, below I have quoted both Linda and Wendy.  Might you also comment on what they have shared --from my experience with the mother and her son, both Linda and Wendy seem right on to me.

Thank You,
Dhyana

LINDA WRITES:   "Saturn (9th) opposite Pluto/Uranus/Mars - cataclysmic, sudden, traumatic, extreme, evolutionary change through ideological crisis.  Pluto is forcing her to express the spiritual truth of natural laws to her own children (5th, Saturn's ruler is Neptune 5th, Mercury inconjuncts Neptune) which she doesn't feel ready to do, or is making excuses.

Uranus/Mars conjunct Pluto - balsamic - surrender to a higher will, the end of an evolutionary cycle.  Perhaps the crisis is:  "What shall I teach my own children? - the dictates of a distorted society for survival purposes, or natural laws for which faith and surrender are necessary?"  The ruler of Pluto, Uranus and Mars is Mercury/Aries/10th - mental trauma in public to speak the truth, and the failure bringing crisis then self-analysis, purification and change.

Pluto/Uranus/Mars squares the Nodes - she has missed these steps, which are being re-lived and resolved through the Resolution Node, NN Gemini 11th, by learning how to be a member of a group, by using discretion in her choice of communication, by daring to be different, or by allowing her children to express their differentness?  Not sure if this makes sense, but could the 11th house group be her own family?  Facilitator of the NN is Mercury/Aries/10th which itself is the ruler of Pluto - what she had learned from her father - the resolution to the skipped steps being to stop listening to that old voice of authority, and to express her own unique voice, and to accept the uniqueness of her own children?"

LINDA: (Re:5TH/11TH Nodes )"...And what are the skipped steps?  To communicate the truth of natural law to her own children in a natural intuitive way, and to allow her children free-expression in line with natural law?  Lucifer is conjunct Jupiter, does she feel a weakness to actually speak the truth?


What does Rad say?"

WENDY WRITES

"...Inconjunct Mercury-Neptune (10th-5th)...her challenge is to speak up and teach (9th house Saturn-Chiron) some form of healing-spirituality, or to become an authority on, or attain knowledge of those things, but before she can access her Saturn/Chiron (skipped step), she has to delve deep into her Pluto.  

She has done all of this in the past (four planets square the nodes).  See if you can find what makes her truly angry, that would reveal her deepest soul passions/desire/resentments (Mars/Pluto/Saturn).

Pluto Uranus retrograde individuals typically either want to goes to any lengths to get in touch with their soul, or they avoid it like the plague (that is my understanding).  


Also Saturn, missed step, is about taking responsibility for the soul, and it's many experiences and ultimately being empowered through teaching forgiveness, oneness (Pisces-knowing the almighty-the universe-the Goddess is in charge) via the lens of discernment (Virgo) applying the soul's inner knowing, knowledge, intuition and communicating that knowing in a logical, right brained fashion (Gemini), in an 11th house way (radical, awakening, shocking, transformational).

Added later....I would even go as far as saying--this soul, this woman--has brilliance and her knowledge was misused by the collective authorities (or she was one) which brought destruction to the masses!  Now she could use her brains and intuition to bring forth healing for her soul especially, as well as many others, if she accesses her trauma and PPP."


ATTACHED:  Chart of one of her sons (the "difficult one"). This is the chart of the son, I already shared with the mom about. My feeling is that in looking at his chart through the lens of "him being a reflection of her unmet traumas" may shed even more light. Also, if you look at the transit's you can see why the mother is stimulated to seek out support at this time. It is really fascinating -- the synchronistic nature of things... My goodness, astrology truly does CORRELATE so beautifully.


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Jan 15, 2011, 10:30 AM
Hi Dhyana,

 I don't have any time today or tomorrow but will come back on Monday. I would totally support you approach of not having her go into the prior life traumas, but would mention the fact that there have been a traumas in other lives, not being specific, that do account for some of her behavior in this life. This would include that one rebellious son. And, from there, talk about what her Soul is trying to accomplish in this life. At that point you can then list what those intentions and lessons are as symbolized in the EA paradigm in her chart. After you list them then simply follow her lead relative to what she herself wants to go into further. Whatever she may want to go into further then sets the stage, so to speak, for deeper examination that you can help lead her into by way of the Socratic type questioning.

 So, just to start off her consultation ask her, at the beginning, what she wants to know, what she wants from interacting with you about her chart.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 15, 2011, 07:12 PM
Thank you Rad. That helps me move along.


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 16, 2011, 03:24 AM
PS   Rad,

I shall check back on Monday then.

You know, I must just thank you once again for that last post, Rad. As I said, it had a very profound effect on me. The value goes well beyond what I can even begin to say here.


Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Jan 16, 2011, 06:50 AM
Hi Dhyana,

I wanted to clarify some of my comments since we haven't dialogued about them, I felt it best to be more specific.  My comments are in bold.  

WENDY WRITES
"...Inconjunct Mercury-Neptune (10th-5th)...her challenge is to speak up and teach (9th house Saturn-Chiron) some form of healing-spirituality, or to become an authority on, or attain knowledge of those things, but before she can access her Saturn/Chiron (skipped step), she has to delve deep into her Pluto.

I say this because Saturn is her polarity point (this is my level of understanding), and Pluto is the unconscious, where we have resistance.  The more conscious we are of our Pluto desires the more likely we are to embrace the PPP.

She has done all of this in the past (four planets square the nodes).  See if you can find what makes her truly angry, that would reveal her deepest soul passions/desire/resentments (Mars/Pluto/Saturn).

My suggestion to find what makes her angry was meant to learn more about her, definitely not to instigate or challenge her in any way.  I must be more mindful in how I state things.

Pluto Uranus retrograde individuals typically either want to goes to any lengths to get in touch with their soul, or they avoid it like the plague (that is my understanding).  


Also Saturn, missed step, is about taking responsibility for the soul, because Saturn is the PPP and it's many experiences and ultimately being empowered through teaching or believing in forgiveness, oneness (Pisces-knowing the almighty-the universe-the Goddess is in charge) via the lens of discernment (Virgo) applying the soul's inner knowing, knowledge, intuition and communicating that knowing in a logical, right brained fashion (Gemini), in an 11th house way (radical, awakening, shocking, transformational).

Added later....I would even go as far as saying--this soul, this woman--has brilliance and her knowledge was misused by the collective authorities (or she was one) which brought destruction to the masses!  Now she could use her brains and intuition to bring forth healing for her soul especially, as well as many others, if she accesses her trauma and PPP."

Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 16, 2011, 06:04 PM
Wendy,

Thank you for clarifying that. It was helpful to read how you came to that by way of seeing Saturn /PPP.

As far as the part you wrote about finding what makes her angry, I did already realize what you meant. However, it is still always helpful to clarify things.

Thanks for your earnest help with this chart and what you brought to this thread, in so doing.

Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Wendy on Jan 17, 2011, 07:48 AM
You are welcome.  I'm interested to read Rad's response too.

 ;)


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Jan 17, 2011, 12:03 PM
Hi Dhyana,

 The connecting point of that one son and her is this: he has been a Soul in which many others, including parents in recent lifetimes, have tried to control every aspect of his being: of what to be, what not to be, how to do this or that, versus not, what to think and believe, versus not, etc to the point that the Soul of the boy has such a built up of anger that this anger manifest as an instinctual rebellion at anyone whom the Soul perceives that is doing this yet again: the rebellion at external control. For the mother the control issue is one of self imposed control, the 'little box of control' that is a reaction to various traumas that have needed to be suppressed in order for her to have a sense of Soul stability. Many of the traumas that she has created for herself have lead to a deep, deep guilt that has also needed to be shut off: denied. A simple example: in another fairly recent live she allowed herself to be 'kept' by a very wealthy father figure, not biological, who gave her all that she thought that she wanted and needed. This included that that person opened many doors for her relative to certain career desires. Out of that situation she became pregnant with this individual. The son that this produced was not welcomed at all by either of them.

 That son was then raised mainly by 'nanny's' while a toddler then when the boy got old enough was sent off to various boarding schools for kids. And in those kinds of schools all kids were subjected to harsh discipline, and expected to 'toe the line' in every way. The individuality of each child simply did not matter to either the schools, or to her as the mother who was so bound up in her career and the complexities born of the situation with the man who was 'keeping' her.

 The boy in question is now the current son that you are asking about. 

 Do not mention any of this to the mother now Dhyanna. I am only sharing this for your own information so as to understand the core of the issue with her and this son. And as I suggested earlier just try to follow that procedure of how to move forwards with her in the counseling situation.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 17, 2011, 01:12 PM
I understand just what you mean, Rad. Thank you.

I asked her what she really wanted to understand -- and mainly she wants to understand is the nature of her spiritual path in this life, and how to best support that and how to nurture that in her children.

I would post her questions here if that is appropriate or useful on this forum in anyway further. Otherwise, I will just go ahead now and begin sharing with her.

Namaste` --Truly,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Jan 17, 2011, 02:09 PM
Hi Dhyana,

 Just follow her lead via the questions that she is asking. If down the line she wants or needs more from you, as in these deeper kinds of issues, then we can revisit it at that time.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 17, 2011, 02:30 PM
I feel very clear. That makes perfect sense to me.

It is really interesting what you say about the son above. In following my intuition as I already shared with her about her son, it was so much like that which you said -- him having been repressed/suppressed and controlled by the "family" and that his soul can no longer hold this compression (things like that, I shared) etc.

So Rad, thanks for your trust in me,in sharing what you did. I shall take good care here.

In this Love,
Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 17, 2011, 05:59 PM
OH, there are a couple specific questions she asked  -- wanted to bring up one of them-- she asked: "will i ever stop looking for approval from others and what is at the root of me doing that?"

Now,(Added more aspects later) that Saturn/Chiron in Pisces being in the 9th opposing Pluto. That Saturn ruling the 6th House (Cap) (never feeling good enough), then the Ruler of the 9th in the 5th, the natural Leo Archetype house (never enough recognition) w/ Pluto being the ruler of the 5th house (atleast half of it) speaks to this amongst many other things in the chart --and I am aware there are more repeating themes. Also, the nature of a Leo Moon is to feel like there is never enough recognition --the bottomless pit (and I know this not just from studying EA, but bc I have one square my Nodes). I know it was very liberating for me to finally understand where that was coming from and really get some space around it. I am sure the woman will feel supported in knowing this too.

So if there is anything Rad or anyone has deeper insight and may want to add to this specific question of hers, I would welcome that. She asks me "what is at the ROOT of this"?

Peace,
D



Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Rad on Jan 18, 2011, 12:20 PM
Hi Dhyana,

 The root of it exists in other lives in which she deviated from cultural norms of what was acceptable and not in terms of various behaviors, and ways of being. A simple example is that life where she allowed herself to be kept, etc. In a variety of such lives this would lead to one kind of trauma after another, and the crisis created in such lives. In turn, this would lead to her own internal judgment of herself: 'what is wrong with me'. Thus, her own inner relationship to herself, Venus, 2nd House, was so defined. This inner vibration within her defined by 'what's wrong with me' then attracted others who would have in varying degrees of intensity the same negative judgments about her. So, of course, this only lead to the 'confirmation' that, indeed, there has been something wrong with her. All of this is what has lead to the compensatory behaviors defined by the 'little box of control'.

 So the root issue is simple: she must allow and accept within herself that she is different as compared to the consensus of whatever society. This is symbolized in her Venus conjunct the Sun in Taurus in her 11th House, as well as the Pluto, Mars, Uranus conjunction where that Mars and Uranus are in her 2nd House. The opposition to her Saturn and Chiron means to 'throw off' the unnecessary internal judgments that there is something wrong with me, and to oppose anyone who tries to judge her in this way. In so doing she then liberates herself from this self imposed 'little box of control' defined by the compensatory behavior.

 The liberated attitude would go something like 'this is who I am, take it or leave it'. In so doing she will then create the circumstances in her life in which the others in her life will then love her for exactly who she is.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Dhyana on Jan 18, 2011, 03:19 PM
Well Rad,

You certainly clarified that one!  ...The whole chart just clicked!

How to say thanks? I don't know...


Thanks and more,

Dhyana


Title: Re: 4 planets square the Nodes
Post by: Linda on Jan 18, 2011, 04:26 PM
Yes it clicked for me too!

Every single word in your last post Rad made complete intuitive sense and flowed really smoothly so that I could easily understand the truth of your analysis.

Thank you so much for sharing your masterful gift Rad....which many of us here aspire to.

Love and thanks,
Linda