School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Rad on Feb 14, 2011, 03:02 PM



Title: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 14, 2011, 03:02 PM
Hi All,

 Geodetic equivalents can be a very useful tool in understanding the prior life localities/ cultures in EA. So am wondering how many would like to work together in this thread to understand what geodetic equivalents are, and how to use them in EA work. Let me know.

God Bless, Rad

To All:

It is very important that we know that this material, this topic, is copyrighted by Jeffrey Wolf Green as he worked on this for thirty years of his life, and taught it in various places.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Feb 14, 2011, 03:24 PM
I'm very interested and ready!


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 14, 2011, 03:27 PM
Oh yes - me too - I'm ready!  Thank you Rad.  :D


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Feb 14, 2011, 04:45 PM
Hi Rad, I'm into this as much as I can.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 14, 2011, 04:48 PM
Hi all,

I too would very much like to learn about this from an EA perspective, and was feeling a bit blue when the last Geodetic thread faded out.

I've been an outsider here for quite a while (Aquarius DSC?), just reading and correlating.  But would like to say hello now, and thanks so much for all the time and effort everybody here puts into this community forum. 

it's the slow accumulation of a circle that keeps the corners longed for.

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Steve on Feb 14, 2011, 06:21 PM
Welcome Taf.  Thanks for taking the step of joining in.

Rad, I'll be following this topic too.
Steve


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Wendy on Feb 14, 2011, 07:54 PM
Yes, I too am very interested!  Thanks Rad.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 15, 2011, 01:38 PM
Hi All,

 First a welcome to Taf: good to have you aboard. For those that don't know geodetic equivalents was developed by a man named Edward Johndro. He spent many years testing his system in a variety of ways. He wrote two books on it. The main one is called THE EARTH IN THE HEAVENS.

 Johndro proposed that the entire band or range of the zodiacal signs could stretch around the entire Earth in 30 degree segments starting with Aries of course. And he lined up 0 Aries with longitudes starting at 0 East and West: Greenwich, England. Thus, from 0 Aries at Greenwich it then goes East to 30 degrees East. From 30 East to 60 East would then be Taurus. 60 East to 90 East would then be Gemini. 90 East to 120 East would then be Cancer. From 120 East to 150 East would be Leo, and from 150 East to 180 East/West would be Virgo. From 0 West to 30 West would be Pisces, 30 West to 60 West would be Aquarius, 60 to 90 West would be Capricorn, 90 West to 120 West would be Sagittarius, 120 West to 150 Scorpio, and from 150 West to 180 West/East would be Libra.

 Each of these zodiacal zones also contain the natural crosses of signs that exist within them. the four natural cardinal points.  So, for example, the Aries zone also contains Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. Each natural zodiacal zone has these natural crosses of the signs within them. So, for example, the generation that had Neptune in Libra would naturally connect not only within the Libra zone itself, but also within the Aries zone. This is why it's not so surprising that those who have Neptune in Libra, that generation, had a high degree of interest and focus on the mythologies of Rome and Greece: it correlates to collective consciousness of those times in the past.

 So for those who wish to keep going on this thread I would recommend that you get a world map and draw in the natural zodiacal zones and, within them, write out the 3 other signs that will exist within them.

 Right now I will stop and wait to see if you all understand the basic structure we are working with, and to see if any of you have questions.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 15, 2011, 02:24 PM
Hi Rad,

Could we use this geodetic map posted by Steve?   

Geodetic zones:   http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/images/Geodetics_world_map.jpg 


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 15, 2011, 02:34 PM
Hi Linda,

 Sure whatever works best for you.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 15, 2011, 06:17 PM
I understand the basic structure so far.  

Steve, Rad, and all, thank you for the warm welcome.

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Feb 16, 2011, 07:13 AM
Hi Rad,

Quote
Each of these zodiacal zones also contain the natural crosses of signs that exist within them. the four natural cardinal points.  So, for example, the Aries zone also contains Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. Each natural zodiacal zone has these natural crosses of the signs within them. So, for example, the generation that had Neptune in Libra would naturally connect not only within the Libra zone itself, but also within the Aries zone. This is why it's not so surprising that those who have Neptune in Libra, that generation, had a high degree of interest and focus on the mythologies of Rome and Greece: it correlates to collective consciousness of those times in the past

Can you explain a bit more why one latitude will contain with in it the natural crosses of that sign?

Specifically, is is divided up within the 30 degrees of the latitude? For example 60-90 west is Gemini. Are each of the mutable signs associated with 1/4th of the latitue? Or is not divided up at all?


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 16, 2011, 09:18 AM
Hi Ari,

 There is no division within the zodiacal zones relative to the natural crosses that equal the signs within those zones. Each zodiacal zone has a natural cross within them that refers to the natural four cardinal points: north, south, east, and west.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 16, 2011, 03:16 PM
Each of these zodiacal zones also contain the natural crosses of signs that exist within them. the four natural cardinal points.  So, for example, the Aries zone also contains Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. Each natural zodiacal zone has these natural crosses of the signs within them. So, for example, the generation that had Neptune in Libra would naturally connect not only within the Libra zone itself, but also within the Aries zone. This is why it's not so surprising that those who have Neptune in Libra, that generation, had a high degree of interest and focus on the mythologies of Rome and Greece: it correlates to collective consciousness of those times in the past.

Rad, taking your example of the generation with Neptune in Libra: Rome and Greece are within the Aries Zone on the map, so when checking a specific function like Neptune in Libra you check not only the natal zone, but also the zones of the other three directions of the cross?  And does that mean you are factoring in the archetypes of the zones according to the aspect?  Meaning, do you need to factor in an opposition aspect when bringing in Rome and Greece as a focus in that generation's collective conscious/unconscious?  And alternately a square aspect to the Cancer/Capricorn zones?

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 16, 2011, 04:02 PM
Hi Taf,

 If I am understanding what you wrote the answer is no. In our example of Neptune in Libra this would correlate simply to the zone within Aries as well as the Libra zone of itself. As we move forwards in understanding geodetic equivalents we will be linking it to various times relative to Ages and their sub-ages that will have further divisions in time within them. This will then be seen as a way to locate specific places and times that any given Soul has lived before. This is why it is important to understand the natural crosses within any given zodiacal zone.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 17, 2011, 10:32 AM
Hi All,

 So our next step in understanding the application of geodetic equivalents is now being able to link the symbols in any given birth chart to the natural zodiacal zones on the Earth. In order to do this we will need to understand two basic principles. The first principle is to remember that the natural houses in the zodiac correlate to the foundation of any chart. So, for example, if a person has a planet or planets in the 3rd House this will naturally correlate to the Gemini Zone. And if in that same chart a person had planets in either Sagittarius, Virgo, or Pisces this would also then correlate to that zone. The second principle are the actual signs that various symbols in the birth chart correlate too. So in our the very same planets that correlate to the Gemini zone will also correlate to their own zodiacal zones. And those zones, of course will all have their own natural crosses/ signs within them.

 For those that have taken the time to write down these zodiacal zones on a world map, and the natural crosses within them, you can now take your own natal chart with all the various symbols, and that should include all the planetary nodes, you can now but on that world map your own birth chart symbols that correlate to these zodiacal zones with their sub zones within them that are symbolized in the natural crosses within each of the natural zodiacal zones.

 I am attaching the birth chart of President Obama so that as questions arise we can refer to this together in order to understand the two principles above.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 17, 2011, 03:53 PM
So to begin in a simple fashion:

Obama's natal Pluto is in the 7th House in Virgo.  The 7th House is the natural Libra House.  So on the Geodetic map I place Pluto into the Libra Zone (as well as Uranus, N.Node).  Then look for planets/nodes in the tropical signs of Aries, Cancer, Capricorn in order to fill out the Libra Zone (but not planets/nodes in the 1st, 4th, or 10th Houses?).  In this case we have Juno in Aries and Saturn in Capricorn, etcetera....

Libra Zone: Pluto (natural), Uranus (natural), N.Node (natural), Juno (sub), Saturn (sub), etcetera etcetera....

Then I would also place Libra planets into this zone as well.  If a planet were in Libra in Obama's chart would it be given the same "emphasis" as his Pluto in the 7th House?  Or his Juno/Saturn as "Sub-Zone" planets?

Or to ask in another way:

Since we also place his Pluto into the Virgo Zone (as well as the Pisces, Gemini, and Sagittarius Zones as a "sub-planet"), does the Natural House of the planet (7th House/Libra Zone) mean something different than the Sign of that same planet (Virgo/Virgo Zone) in terms of geodetic interpretation?

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 18, 2011, 03:57 AM
Hi Rad,

Are the symbols correctly placed on the geodetic world map for Obama?  (attached)


ADDED LATER:  This version of the map is incorrect.
Please see below for correct version.


(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/BarakObamaGeodeticEquivalents-1.gif)

Thanks.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 18, 2011, 10:08 AM
Hi Linda,

 Thanks for posting the geodetic world map for Obama. It looks really great.

God Bless, Rad


 


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 18, 2011, 10:10 AM
Hi Taf,

 Just look at the map Linda posted. This is the correct application of the two principles that I posted yesterday.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: mountainheather on Feb 18, 2011, 11:06 AM
Hi Rad,
I've been following this thread.  A question with reference to Linda's post(thanks Linda) why is Obama's Pluto for example, not included in each zone of the cross, ie in the Pisces, Sag, and Gemini zones? I must be misunderstanding the instructions. Thank you for this opportunity.
Heather


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 18, 2011, 11:45 AM
Hi mountainheather,

 You are right .. it should be. I missed it when I first looked at Linda's map. Thanks for noticing with your keen Virgo eyes !

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Feb 18, 2011, 12:46 PM
Oh Linda! Thank you for taking the time to do that, that is really helpful for my mind.

Quote
 So, for example, if a person has a planet or planets in the 3rd House this will naturally correlate to the Gemini Zone. And if in that same chart a person had planets in either Sagittarius, Virgo, or Pisces this would also then correlate to that zone.

To clarify: Obama has Pluto in Virgo in the 7th. So, on the map above, we would place Pluto in the Libra, Aries, Cap and Cancer zones as well as in the Virgo Pisces Sag and Gemini zones? Thank you.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 18, 2011, 01:15 PM
Hi Ari,

"To clarify: Obama has Pluto in Virgo in the 7th. So, on the map above, we would place Pluto in the Libra, Aries, Cap and Cancer zones as well as in the Virgo Pisces Sag and Gemini zones? Thank you."

********************

Pluto in his 7th goes into the natural Libra Zone. By sign it goes into the Virgo Zone. Through the natural crosses of the signs it then goes into the Sag, Gemini, and Pisces zones as well. All of those zones have Virgo within them due to the natural crosses.  Not the Aries, Cap, or Cancer zones because none of these has Virgo as part of their natural crosses.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 18, 2011, 01:57 PM
Ooops!

Thanks Rad and everyone for the clarification.

I will update the world map of Obama's geodetics to include the correct placements - coming soon.  8)

Thanks.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Feb 18, 2011, 02:24 PM
Oh, ok I got it now, thank you.

I'm going to contemplate with why this is so- ie why houses apply (ie third house= gemini zone), and yet the natural crossses do not apply for houses. If I have any further questions I will ask.

I have a very general question, what kind of observations and correlations were made to determine these geodetic equivalents in the first place?


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: mountainheather on Feb 18, 2011, 02:55 PM
Rad,Linda,Ari,
Thank you for clarifying.  Just to be sure... the natural cross that applies is based on the sign not the house that we find the symbol in. Correct? My zone map was getting pretty full!
Thanks, Heather


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 18, 2011, 03:51 PM
Heather, that is my understanding too:  the "natural cross" applies to the SIGN, not to the house.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 18, 2011, 05:34 PM
Hi Rad and all,

The geodetic map contains:

-- the SIGNS of the Planets and Planetary Nodes
-- the NATURAL CROSSES that apply to the Planets and Planetary Nodes
-- the HOUSES of the Planets and Planetary Nodes (natural crosses do not apply here)

Is it correct to include the SUN?  

Rad's response:  No, because the Sun correlates to the current life. So if we are focusing on the prior lifetimes and their dynamics that have lead to the current life this would not be included.

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/BarakObamaGeodeticEquivalents2-2-1.jpg)

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/BarakObamachartwithPlanetaryNodes-1-1-1.jpg)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 18, 2011, 05:58 PM
Here's a BLANK MAP of the world geodetic zones for future use:

Right-click on the image.  Choose "Copy Image."  
Open new Word document and press Ctrl + V to paste.  
Print.


(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/GeodeticEquivalentsBLANKMAP-1-1.jpg)

Thanks Steve
for the Photobucket instructions.



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: mountainheather on Feb 18, 2011, 06:40 PM
Gosh, thanks Linda for putting all of that together, much neater than my pencil and paper adventure I'm having.  Heather


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: mirta on Feb 19, 2011, 07:00 AM
Thanks so much Linda and Steve for your contribution.
I was wondering (without any answer) how could I do something similar.

I am also following this thread though not able to participate now.
Thanks Rad and all the group for this opportunity to learn. I really appreciate it.
God Bless
Mirta


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 19, 2011, 10:21 AM
Hi All,

 Linda: "Is it correct to include the SUN?"

*****************

No, because the Sun correlates to the current life. So if we are focusing on the prior lifetimes and their dynamics that have lead to the current life this would not be included.

*****************

Ari: "I have a very general question, what kind of observations and correlations were made to determine these geodetic equivalents in the first place?"

***********************

Edward Johndro was the originator of the geodetic system. He does have two books that one can read to understand the nature of his work over many, many years observing and correlating this system to Earth, and it's peoples. Johndro was primarily interested in Earth events such as earthquakes, volcanoes, and so on. One of his desires was to be able to hone this system to such a point that it would be possible to predict Earth events based on past observations and correlations. And to that end his system has a very high degree of accuracy when totally and properly understood. A few simple examples. We all remember that giant tsunami a few years ago that killed so many people in southeast Asia. Of course it was triggered by that massive underwater earthquake in the Indian Ocean that was so massive that it shifted the axis of the Earth itself. The transiting Saturn was exact to the longitude of that earthquake.  Another dramatic example: the nuclear bombs that the USA dropped on Japan. The USA's N.Node is something like 5 Leo. This correlates with the geodetic longitude of Japan: Hiroshima. The transiting Pluto, nuclear bombs, was exact to 5 degrees of Leo on that day.

JWG started using geodetic equivalents in his EA work early on in his work. He did want to see if there was a way of correlating prior lifetimes by a Soul to specific places on the Earth. In understanding JWG we must remember that he did have other capacities other than astrology that allowed him to see and know the Soul history of anyone. So this of course lent itself to his work with the geodetic equivalents in terms of being able to use it with confidence. His desire was to develop a system like this that all EA astrologers could use whether that had other capacities or not. An empirical system that worked with a high degree of certainty.

He worked on this system for most of his career and considered it 'experimental'. As we move forwards with his teaching of the geodetic equivalents we will be linking it with the Ages and their sub-ages so that so specific times and places for the history of any given Soul can be seen. He never got to the point that he felt he could publish any of this although he did teach it in a few places as a workshop that he titled: The Soul's Journey Through Time. It is the material in that workshop that is being presented here.

This is a work that he worked on for almost his entire career that he was constantly trying to perfect: he did not like 'loose ends'. And there are loose ends in what is being taught here. Some simple examples: he never reached a conclusion relative to the application of all the planetary nodes in these geodetic charts. The main issue here was the issue of the outer planetary nodes of Saturn, Uranus, Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto versus the personal planets and their nodes: Venus, Mars, the Moon, and Mercury. Obviously the outer planetary nodes correlate to great periods of time that all Souls share whereas the personal planets and their nodes are just that: personal. He came to a place where he felt that when we see in a birth chart the personal planets is aspect to the outer planetary nodes then those nodes should be included in THAT person's geodetic map.

He did not use at all the N.Nodes of any of the planets at all because those all correlate to the future evolution of any given Soul although he mused that they could correlate to the future projection of the Soul to places on the Earth in lives to come relative to where it has been, and is now.

As the geodetic system stands as of now, what he did develop, there is a very high degree of accuracy. Simply look at the chart of Obama and that should be very, very clear. When you add just two prior lives to that, Abraham Lincoln and Charles Lindbergh , it becomes even more clear.


***************************

 God Bless, Rad

 

 

 


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 20, 2011, 03:32 PM
As the geodetic system stands as of now, what he did develop, there is a very high degree of accuracy. Simply look at the chart of Obama and that should be very, very clear. When you add just two prior lives to that, Abraham Lincoln and Charles Lindbergh , it becomes even more clear.

Rad,
Will we be going into depth utilizing these principles and charts?

And is Pluto's House or the S.Node of Pluto, or the S.Node of the Moon the first place to look when beginning?  Is there a practical sequence like the Pluto signature? Or does it depend on each individual chart?

PS
Thank you so much for the time and dedication to teaching all of us, and in so many different threads!

Much respect
Sincerely,
taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 21, 2011, 09:54 AM
Hi taf,

"Will we be going into depth utilizing these principles and charts?"

*******************************

Not sure what 'in depth' would mean to you, so please let me know about what you mean.

*****************************

"And is Pluto's House or the S.Node of Pluto, or the S.Node of the Moon the first place to look when beginning?  Is there a practical sequence like the Pluto signature? Or does it depend on each individual chart"

************************************

The use of these geodetic maps is to provide another vehicle in order to understand the prior life backgrounds of any Soul that all contribute to the life being currently lived. If we have a book to read most of us would agree that it's necessary to read the totality of that book in order to understand what is being presented in that book. If I start reading chapter five first, and then continue on to the end, I will not totally understand that book. In the same way the geodetic maps provide, in it's own way, a total understanding to the entire book of any given Soul. So, it's not a matter of where to look at first when utilizing these charts. The geodetic charts must be seen and understood as a whole.

These charts should not be seen or understood to represent the entire history of any given Soul. They should be seen as specific prior lives that any given Soul is drawing upon relative to it's current life evolutionary and karmic intentions and needs.


*************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 21, 2011, 03:19 PM
That makes sense.  Thanks Rad.  I'll just wait and see how we progress.

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 22, 2011, 11:33 AM
Hi All,

 Ok, so now we have arrived at a place where we can all have some experimental fun. Below you will see a list of the Astrological Ages, their sub-ages, which is further divided by 90 year segments within each that are defined by their own signs. All of you have made your own geodetic maps of your own birth charts. In order to place your natal planets within the appropriate Ages and their sub-ages, and the 90 year segments within them it will be necessary to employ another astrological method to do so. That method is called Cosmo Grams that was developed by an astrologer whose name I have forgot. I think his name was Ebertein but I can't quite remember. In his system the 360 zodiac is reduced to 90 degrees wherein all the Mutable, Cardinal, and Fixed signs are stacked up on each other thus creating this 90 degree wheel. I am attaching this wheel so you can all print it out, and also attaching a dial that you can also print out that goes in the middle of the 90 degree wheel.

So for right now I would like you to print out this wheel, the dial, and the example chart that demonstrates how to place the planets within the wheel by using the dial. When we have all done this I will then present how to use them.

God Bless, Rad

******************************************************************************

The Astrological Ages and Sub-Ages

1. LEO AGE:  10,900 B.C. - 8740 B.C.
10,900 - 10,810   Leo
10,810 - 10,720   Virgo
10,720 - 10,630   Libra
10,630 - 10,540   Scorpio
10,540 - 10,450   Sagittarius
10,450 - 10,360   Capricorn
10,360 - 10,270   Aquarius
10,270 - 10,180   Pisces
10,180 - 10,090   Aries
10,090 - 10,000   Taurus
10,000 - 9,910   Gemini
  9,910 - 9,820   Cancer

AQUARIUS SUB-AGE OF THE LEO AGE:  9,820 - 8,740 B.C.
9,820 - 9,730   Aquarius
9,730 - 9,640   Pisces
9,640 - 9,550   Aries
9,550 - 9,460   Taurus
9,460 - 9,370   Gemini
9,370 - 9,280   Cancer
9,280 - 9,190   Leo
9,190 - 9,100   Virgo
9,100 - 9,010   Libra
9,010 - 8,920   Scorpio
8,920 - 8,830   Sagittarius
8,830 - 8,740   Capricorn


2. CANCER AGE:  8,740 - 6,580 B.C.
8,740 - 8,650   Cancer
8,650 - 8,560   Leo
8,560 - 8,470   Virgo
8,470 - 8,380   Libra
8,380 - 8,290   Scorpio
8,290 - 8,200   Sagittarius
8,200 - 8,110   Capricorn
8,110 - 8,020   Aquarius
8,020 - 7,930   Pisces
7,930 - 7,840   Aries
7,840 - 7,750   Taurus
7,750 - 7,660   Gemini

CAPRICORN SUB-AGE OF THE CANCER AGE:  7,660 - 6,580 B.C.
7,660 - 7,570   Capricorn
7,570 - 7,480   Aquarius
7,480 - 7,390   Pisces
7,390 - 7,300   Aries
7,300 - 7,210   Taurus
7,210 - 7,120   Gemini
7,120 - 7,030   Cancer
7,030 - 6,940   Leo
6,940 - 6,850   Virgo
6,850 - 6,760   Libra
6,760 - 6,670   Scorpio
6,670 - 6,580   Sagittarius


3. GEMINI AGE:  6,580 - 4,420 B.C.
6,580 - 6,490   Gemini
6,490 - 6,400   Cancer
6,400 - 6,310   Leo
6,310 - 6,220   Virgo
6,220 - 6,130   Libra
6,130 - 6,040   Scorpio
6,040 - 5,950   Sagittarius
5,950 - 5,860   Capricorn
5,860 - 5,770   Aquarius
5,770 - 5,680   Pisces
5,680 - 5,590   Aries
5,590 - 5,500   Taurus

SAGITTARIUS SUB-AGE OF THE GEMINI AGE:  5,500 - 4,420 BC
5,500 - 5,410   Sagittarius
5,410 - 5,320   Capricorn
5,320 - 5,230   Aquarius
5,230 - 5,140   Pisces
5,140 - 5,050   Aries
5,050 - 4,960   Taurus
4,960 - 4,870   Gemini
4,870 - 4,780   Cancer
4,780 - 4,690   Leo
4,690 - 4,600   Virgo
4,600 - 4,510   Libra
4,510 - 4,420   Scorpio


4. TAURUS AGE:  4,420 - 2,260 B.C.
4,420 - 4,330   Taurus
4,330 - 4,240   Gemini
4,240 - 4,150   Cancer
4,150 - 4,060   Leo
4,060 - 3,970   Virgo
3,970 - 3,880   Libra
3,880 - 3,790   Scorpio
3,790 - 3,700   Sagittarius
3,700 - 3,610   Capricorn
3,610 - 3,520   Aquarius
3,520 - 3,430   Pisces
3,430 - 3,340   Aries

SCORPIO SUB-AGE OF THE TAURUS AGE:  3,340 - 2,260 B.C.
3,340 - 3,250   Scorpio
3,250 - 3,160   Sagittarius
3,160 - 3,070   Capricorn
3,070 - 2,980   Aquarius
2,980 - 2,890   Pisces
2,890 - 2,800   Aries
2,800 - 2,710   Taurus
2,710 - 2,620   Gemini
2,620 - 2,530   Cancer
2,530 - 2,440   Leo
2,440 - 2,350   Virgo
2,350 - 2,260   Libra


5. ARIES AGE:  2,260 - 100 B.C.
2,260 - 2,170   Aries
2,170 - 2,080   Taurus
2,080 - 1,990   Gemini
1,990 - 1,900   Cancer
1,900 - 1,810   Leo
1,810 - 1,720   Virgo
1,720 - 1,630   Libra
1,630 - 1,540   Scorpio
1,340 - 1,450   Sagittarius
1,450 - 1,360   Capricorn
1,360 - 1,270   Aquarius
1,270 - 1,180   Pisces

LIBRA SUB-AGE OF THE ARIES AGE:  1,180-100 B.C.
1,180 - 1,090   Libra
1,090 - 1,000   Scorpio
1,000 - 910   Sagittarius
910 - 820   Capricorn
820 - 730   Aquarius
730 - 640   Pisces
640 - 550   Aries
550 - 460   Taurus
460 - 370   Gemini
370 - 280   Cancer
280 - 190   Leo
190 - 100   Virgo


6. PISCES AGE:  100 B.C. - 2060 A.D
100BC - 10BC   Pisces
10BC - 80 AD   Aries
  80 - 170   Taurus
170 - 260   Gemini
260 - 350   Cancer
350 - 440   Leo
440 - 530   Virgo
530 - 620   Libra
620 - 710   Scorpio
710 - 800   Sagittarius
800 - 890   Capricorn
890 - 980   Aquarius

VIRGO SUB-AGE OF THE PISCES AGE:  980 - 2060 A.D.
  980 - 1070   Virgo
1070 - 1160   Libra
1160 - 1250   Scorpio
1250 - 13 40   Sagittarius
1340 - 1430   Capricorn
1430 - 1520   Aquarius
1520 - 1610   Pisces
1610 - 1700   Aries
1700 - 1790   Taurus
1790 - 1880   Gemini
1880 - 1970   Cancer
1970 - 2060   Leo


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 22, 2011, 03:30 PM
Hi Rad,

I found this on Wikipedia:

The term Cosmobiology as most frequently used in the English language, refers to the school of astrology founded by Reinhold Ebertin.  Cosmobiology expanded into medical astrology, Dr. Ebertin being a physician.

In cosmobiological analysis, planets are inserted into a special type of horoscope often referred to as a 'Cosmogram' (derived from the Uranian 90° dial chart) and delineated.

The primary reference/research text for Cosmobiology was first published in 1940 by the German astrologer Reinhold Ebertin.  The name of the book is The Combination of Stellar Influences.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 22, 2011, 03:42 PM
That method is called Cosmo Grams that was developed by an astrologer whose name I have forgot. I think his name was Ebertein but I can't quite remember.

Thanks Linda, I happened to be checking myself as you were.  Here's a few more interesting facts:

The 90 degree dial methods were developed by a German astrologer/surveyor named Alfred Witte, based on ancient techniques and concepts regarding midpoints.  Witte was an enemy of the Third Reich whose research/books were banned.  His ideas were then resurrected by Reinhold Ebertin (without the Trans-Neptunians), a German astrologer/physician, who put an extensive amount of work into Medical Astrology correlations.

Both Witte (midpoints/dial paradigm) and Johndro (Geodetic Equivalents) committed suicide.

Witte's book that inspired Ebertin was titled Rulebook of Planetary Pictures.


taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 22, 2011, 04:19 PM
Those are interesting facts Taf - thanks.  ;)   

Great to have you as part of our little group here.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 23, 2011, 01:33 PM
Hi All,

 Let me know if all of you are ready to move on .............

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 23, 2011, 03:15 PM
Yes thank you, I am ready.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Feb 23, 2011, 05:23 PM
Hi Rad, I've also been following along too, and understand it all so far. Haven't had time to put my chart onto the map etc so will try to find time for that today or tommorrow, but I'm ready to continue.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 24, 2011, 11:47 AM
Hi All,

 Ok, let's move forwards. You now have the 90 degree dial. The first thing to do is to stack all the Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable signs on top of one another. So starting at 0 degrees put the sign Aries at the very bottom of the rung as illustrated in the example cosmogram that I attached before. Then add Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn which should now be on the top rung. Do exactly the same for the Fixed and Mutable signs. The Fixed signs are placed at the 30 degree mark, and the Mutable ones at the 60 degree mark.

The next step is to place your natal planets in the cosmogram. For example, if you have Mars at 10 degrees of Aries you would place that exactly at the 10 degree Aries mark in the cosmogram: just like in the example cosmogram provided. So go ahead and place all of your planets in your cosmogram. You will now have a complete cosmogram of your natal planets. Do not include your natal Sun. You can include the S.Nodes of your Venus, Mercury, Mars, and your Moon.

Before we move on let me know if any of you have questions of these steps.

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Wendy on Feb 24, 2011, 09:04 PM
Hi Rad,

I have been following along and just getting to filling out the map and the dial.  For the fixed and mutable planets I assume we just treat the 30 degree mark on the dial for the fixed planets the same as the 0 degree point for cardinal.  Meaning we start at 30 degrees for 1 degree of Leo, and so on for all the fixed planets.  Then with the mutable planets, we start at 60, but count 1-30 for the mutable planet placements.

I hope this makes sense. 

Thank you,
Wendy


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Feb 24, 2011, 11:25 PM
Rad,
Do we add the Lunar Nodes to the cosmogram?
Thanks.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 25, 2011, 09:32 AM
Hi Wendy,

 Yes, that is correct.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 25, 2011, 09:34 AM
Hi Linda,

 The S.Node of the Moon, yes ................

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 25, 2011, 12:22 PM
Hi All,

 Ok unless there are further questions we will continue on starting tomorrow ... Saturday.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Feb 25, 2011, 04:12 PM
Hi Rad,

So just checking I have it right.

In the cosmogram:

- all the Aries, Cancer, Libra & Cardinal planets will be in the 0 - 30 degree section at their actual degree of the sign they're in. 

- all the Taurua, Leo, Scorpio & Aquarius planets will be in the 30 - 60 degree section but with 30 degrees equalling 0 degree (of the sign they're in) up to 60 degrees equalling 30 degrees (of the sign they're in).
e.g. Saturn at 21 Leo would be at 51 degrees on the dial, Jupiter at 11 Aquarius would be 41 degrees on the dial

- all the Gemini, Virgo, Sag & Pisces planets will be in the 60 - 90 degree section but with 60 degrees equalling 0 degrees (of the sign they're in) up to 90 degrees equalling 30 degrees (of the sign they're in)
e.g. Saturn at 12 Gemini would be at 72 degree on the dial, Jupiter at 2 Sag would be at 62 degrees on the dial and Chiron at 21 Picses would be at 81 degrees on the dial.

If that is all correct then I'm ready for the next step.

thanks very much,
Upasika


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 25, 2011, 04:22 PM
Hi Upasika,

 It's all correct.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 26, 2011, 10:47 AM
Hi All,

 So we have now arrived at the final steps in using geodetic equivalents on the world map combined with the development of the cosmograms. So all of you should now placed your natal planets and the S.Nodes of Mercury, Moon, Venus, and Mars in your personal cosmogram.

 The next step is then to take the cosmo dial and place it at the center of the cosmogram. In the example cosmogram that I attached earlier you will notice that Mars is at 10 degrees of Aries. You will also notice that the arrow at 0 degrees of the cosmo dial is pointed at that Mars. On either side of the 0 degrees you will notice increments of 5 degrees each on either side of that 0 degree marker. And the opposite end of the 0 degrees is the 45 degree marker. To develop your personal cosmogram you will want to note the planets that connect together at the various five degree segments on either side of the 0 degree marker. So in our example cosmogram you will notice that Jupiter is at the 15 degree marker on the left side of the 0 degree marker, and that Venus is also at the 15 degree marker on the right side of the 0 degree marker that is always the reference point  in developing these cosmograms.

 You will also notice that Saturn is at the 45 degree marker relative to that 0 degree reference point. In combination this Saturn, Jupiter, and Venus now create a cosmogram with Mars at the top. I have attached an example of what this cosmogram would look like. If there were other planets that connected at the other segments points on either side of the 0 degree reference point they would also be included in creating the total cosmogram. In other words if there was a planet at the 25 degree marker on both the left and right sides of the 0 degree reference point they would then also be part of the cosmogram.

 The next step in our example cosmogram is to place the signs on it. So since Mars in Aries is at the top of our cosmogram we mark that as Aries at the top. Then referring the the Ages and their sub-ages we go the Aries age and note the 90 year segment in time for that Mars. Then we look for the Libra 90 year segment within that Age because Jupiter is in Libra at part of the cosmogram. Then we note the 90 year segment for Gemini because Venus is in Gemini as part of that cosmogram. And then Capricorn because Saturn is in Capricorn as part of the cosmogram.

 This example is then used to develop all of your personal cosmograms where you place the 0 degree marker, reference point, at each of your planets or nodes in your  personal cosmogram. And when you notice other planets that connect to it via the segments on either side of that marker, as in our example, you then start creating a cosmogram for them.

 When you are done developing all of your cosmograms then refer back to the Ages and the sub-ages with the 90  year segments in time to note the time frames for all the planets, and the relevant nodes.

 When all of you understand how to do this then we will move on to what it all may mean. If you have questions of course on how to do this please ask.

 God Bless, and good luck ! Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: mountainheather on Feb 26, 2011, 11:11 AM
Hi Rad, is there an orb for these? So if the Venus from you example was at 18 and the Jupiter at 11 both relative to Mars, would they apply?

Thank you, Heather


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 26, 2011, 11:25 AM
Hi Heather,

 Thanks for that question. I forgot to mention the orb thing. This is open to investigation or further research but I have used two degree orbs in my own work. So in the example that is being used with Mars that would mean if Jupiter were at the 17 degree mark on the left side, and Venus were at 13 degree mark on the right side, then they would qualify for being tied into the cosmogram.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Feb 28, 2011, 08:38 AM
Hi Rad and all,

I just joined the message board Saturday and am so appreciative to have discovered this topic almost immediately.  Thank you Rad for your service and education here, and thanks to all of you for making this such a vibrant forum as I've begun to explore in other threads.   

I have questions about planets which are conjunct or which are square and thus aligned in the Ebertin chart (e.g. Pluto 4 Libra, Saturn 4 Cancer).  Does one create a separate cosmogram for each planet?  If so, is the conjunct/aligned planet then listed in the top position and calibrated according to the Age of the sign of the planet whose cosmogram it is?  (i.e., using the e.g. above, for Pluto's cosmogram, Pluto's timeframe would be Libra Sub-Age/Libra period, and Saturn's would be Libra Sub-Age/Cancer period; for Saturn's cosmogram, Saturn's timeframe would be Cancer Age/Cancer period, and Pluto's would be Cancer Age/Libra period; then all the branches of the two cosmograms would have the same planets, but calibrated to Cancer Age periods for Saturn cosmogram and Libra Sub-Age periods for Pluto cosmogram).

Secondly, when conjunct or aligned planets occur in another planet's cosmogram, should they be listed on the same branch even if they are in different signs? 

Thank you, looking forward to learning more. 

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Feb 28, 2011, 11:05 AM
Hi Jason,

 Yes to both questions ..........

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Feb 28, 2011, 11:55 PM
Rad,

Just to clarify: there must be planets/nodes on both sides of the reference planet's dial at equal markers in order to be tied into the cosmogram (Venus 15 degrees on one side, Jupiter 15 degrees on the other)?  We wouldn't tie Venus at 15 degrees on one side into the cosmogram of Mars (0 degrees) if the opposite 15 degree marker is empty because we're talking about midpoints.  Is this correct?

Thanks

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 01, 2011, 01:15 AM
Hi Rad,

In my SN Venus cosmogram, Mercury (on the one side) aspects 2 planets (on the other side)
of the marker.  Do I include both, as shown in the draft below?
(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/CosmogramLindaisitcorrect-4-1.jpg)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 01, 2011, 10:00 AM
Hi Linda,

 No, it's not done this way. Each planet or S.Node is used, one by one, at the top of the pointer in the cosmo dial to develop their own cosmo grams. Thus, your S.Node of Venus is at the top in the example you have sent. You would not be including your Mercury in Cap in this cosmo gram or your Venus in Cap or your S.Node of Mercury in Cap. Each of these would have their own cosmo gram. When such points are conjunct within the natal birth chart you can also put all of them at the top of your cosmo gram and then create the cosmo grams that other planets are linked too, i.e. your S.Node, Uranus in Leo, and S.Node of Mars in Sagittarius. In the cosmo gram you shared you also have the wrong 90 year segment for Mercury, Venus, and S.Node of Mercury in Cap. That 90 year segment is 7,660 to 7,570. You have these listed for the Aquarius 90 year segment: 7,570 to 7,480.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 01, 2011, 10:01 AM
Hi Taf,

 Yes to what you have written.


God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 01, 2011, 10:26 AM
Hi Rad,

In regards to the Mars cosmogram example you provided,
Quote
Then we look for the Libra 90 year segment within that Age because Jupiter is in Libra at part of the cosmogram. Then we note the 90 year segment for Gemini because Venus is in Gemini as part of that cosmogram. And then Capricorn because Saturn is in Capricorn as part of the cosmogram. 

I want to clarify.
Mars is in Aries, and since we are creating a cosmogram for that Mars, all of the subages will be listed as Aries subages? IE Mars would refer to the Aries subage of Aries, Venus the Gemini subage of Aries, and so on... ?
Thank you.



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 01, 2011, 11:09 AM
Hi Ari,

 Yes ............

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 01, 2011, 03:46 PM
Hi all,

I want to offer a helpful tool I've been using with this practice. On solar fire, when you enlarge the chart you are looking at, click on "reports" on the right, and then "midpoint tree". It will give you all the mid points from the point of view of any planet.

So if you are constructing any particular cosmogram you can check the work you are doing with the wheel by referring to the calculations. If your using a 2 degree orb, you'd have to fix the settings on the right side.

Rad, I notice that we are not working with any of the ages before the Leo age. Why is that? Would it also be applicable, for example, to construct a Libra cosmogram for the actual age of Libra (which would have been a LONG time ago- as opposed to the Libra subage of the Aries age)? Thank you.
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 02, 2011, 09:28 AM
Hi Ari,

 You can do that if you want too.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rose Marcus on Mar 02, 2011, 01:12 PM
Hi all,
Just wanted to mention that I included geodetic maps in my chapter for "Insights into Evolutionary Astrology". The maps show the MC & Ascendant lines with the cardinal geodetic areas shaded. I very briefly discussed these world regions, not in terms of past lives, but in regards to Pluto in Cap's transit. 
For those who may be interested, Chris McRae produced a map which she sells (I think for around $20.00) Chris McRae [cmcrae@uniserve.com]
Blessings
Rose
 


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 03, 2011, 02:23 AM
Hi Rad,

Here are my cosmogram trees - I think they're correct now.

{  These were deleted as an error was found.  
Please see the edited versions below which Rad is checking.  }



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Mar 03, 2011, 05:28 AM
Hi Rad,

Just want to clarify .. if a planet at the top of a cosmogram is in a sign that isn't listed as an Age in the list of Ages & subAges you posted eg Sagittarius, Capricorn, then we use its subage of the Age it occurs in as it's "Age". For a planet in Cap at the top of the cosmogram that would be Cap subage of the Cancer Age, for a planet in Sag at the top it would be the Sag subage of the Gemini Age (5,500 - 4,420 BC).

Then for planets on branches of the cosmogram we look for the period they refer to in that subage eg. for a planet in Sag at the top, a planet on a branch in say Leo would be 4,780 - 4,690 BC.

Is this corect? (looking now at Linda's seems that's the way she has done it, so guess I'm asking the same question)

Thanks Upasika


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 03, 2011, 09:30 AM
Hi Upasika,

 Yes ..............

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 03, 2011, 09:50 AM
Hi Linda,

 Without knowing your birth chart I can't know if the cosmo grams you have created are correct. Can you send me the degrees of the the planet and nodes you have in Capricorn ? I could do a quick check then to make sure you have got it right.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 03, 2011, 09:53 AM
Hi All,

 Wanting to find out if all of you who have been following this thread feel clear now on how to construct the cosmo grams. And, if not, wondering if it would be beneficial to post an entire chart of some one so that we good go through it together ? If you all do feel clear then we can move on to the possible meanings that the cosmo grams you have all produced. So let me know.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 03, 2011, 11:23 AM
I feel clear Rad.

Linda, how do you create such nice cosmograms? What program do you use? I'd love to do that too!


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 03, 2011, 03:03 PM
Hi Rad, I also feel clear and ready to continue.
Thank you,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: mountainheather on Mar 03, 2011, 03:51 PM
Hi Rad, I've got mine done, but would find it helpful to see one done on here too.
Thanks, Heather


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Mar 03, 2011, 04:46 PM
I feel clear as well Rad, but don't mind if we linger so that everyone is up to speed.

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 03, 2011, 06:41 PM
Without knowing your birth chart I can't know if the cosmo grams you have created are correct. Can you send me the degrees of the planets and nodes you have in Capricorn ? I could do a quick check then to make sure you have got it right.


Rad, here are the degrees of my Capricorn planets and nodes:

{2½ deg orb used}
Venus 3.51 deg Cap
Mercury 13.52 deg Cap
S Venus 8.59 deg Cap
S Mercury 5.37 deg Cap

If the cosmograms are correct, then I'm ready to move forward.  Thanks for checking.  

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/Page1FINALGEODETICTREES-Linda.jpg)

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/Page2FINALGEODETICTREES-Linda.jpg)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 03, 2011, 06:55 PM
Linda, how do you create such nice cosmograms? What program do you use? I'd love to do that too!

The MS Publisher (or Word) application, by inserting a 3 column Table and as many rows as you need.  


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 04, 2011, 03:36 PM
Hi Linda,

 As best I can tell it looks all correct to me. Yeah.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 04, 2011, 03:48 PM
Hi All,

 Ok, guess we are ready to move on. I am finally going to take a weekend off so will be back on Monday and we can continue on.

God Bless,

Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 07, 2011, 09:55 AM
Hi All,

 Ok, we have come to a place now where you can take your personal cosmo grams and place them within your personal geodetic world maps. If you refer back to our original example cosmo gram where we used Mars in Aries to develop that cosmo gram this would then correlate to the astrological zone of Aries: from 0 degrees East, to 30 degrees East. In this cosmo gram this would then mean that there were four specific prior lives in that zone relative to the 90 year segments within that cosmo gram.

 So you can not apply your own personal comso grams to your personal geodetic world maps in this way. So go ahead and do this. If you have any questions please ask.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 07, 2011, 04:03 PM
Hi Rad,

So to clarify, with that particular cosmogram, the soul has incarnated in that region during these 4 specific times:
2260-2170
1720-1630
1450-1360
2080-1990

1. Are these just 4 lifetimes, or is it more accurate to say that these are the 4 time periods within which incarnations took place (ie perhaps 2 lifetimes took place within 2260-2170)?

2. I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?

3. I have more q's, however if there are more steps you are yet to share with us, I will hold off on asking them and let the process unfold.
Thank you.
Ari Moshe





Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Mar 07, 2011, 05:41 PM
Rad,

Quick questions:

1. We're not using asteroids in our cosmograms?

2. If there were another planet in your example...  Jupiter is in Libra at the opposite point in the cosmogram from Venus in Gemini.  If we also added Mercury in Virgo at the same spot as the Venus in Gemini, does that Mercury count as a separate lifetime because it will clearly have a separate time period even though it is at the same point as Venus in the cosmogram?

                      Mars/Aries

Jupiter/Libra                        Venus/Gemini
                                          Mercury/Virgo

                      Saturn/Aquarius



3. What if Mercury were in Gemini conjunct Venus?  They would both have the same sub-sub Age, and therefore the same time period.  Would Mercury still be a separate lifetime from Venus even though they are conjunct and operative during the same time frame?  (This may relate to Ari's first question)


Thank you Rad.

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 08, 2011, 10:05 AM
Hi Ari,



"So to clarify, with that particular cosmogram, the soul has incarnated in that region during these 4 specific times:
2260-2170
1720-1630
1450-1360
2080-1990

1. Are these just 4 lifetimes, or is it more accurate to say that these are the 4 time periods within which incarnations took place (ie perhaps 2 lifetimes took place within 2260-2170)?"

**********************************

These are four time periods within which incarnations took place.

**********************************

2."I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?"

**********************************

Yes but it would also correlate to the Aries zone as well because of the natural cross that exists within it: Libra, Cancer, Capricorn within the Aries Zone.

*********************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 08, 2011, 10:16 AM
Hi taf,

"Quick questions:

1. We're not using asteroids in our cosmograms?"

********************************************

No. But it is certainly possible to do so. But then you would have to determine which one's 'count', so to speak, and which one's don't.

************************************************

2."If there were another planet in your example...  Jupiter is in Libra at the opposite point in the cosmogram from Venus in Gemini.  If we also added Mercury in Virgo at the same spot as the Venus in Gemini, does that Mercury count as a separate lifetime because it will clearly have a separate time period even though it is at the same point as Venus in the cosmogram?"

                      Mars/Aries

Jupiter/Libra                        Venus/Gemini
                                          Mercury/Virgo

                      Saturn/Aquarius



3. "What if Mercury were in Gemini conjunct Venus?  They would both have the same sub-sub Age, and therefore the same time period.  Would Mercury still be a separate lifetime from Venus even though they are conjunct and operative during the same time frame?  (This may relate to Ari's first question)"

***********************************************

If there is enough degree of separation between the two then it may be a situation where you could also create cosmograms for  each relative to the other planets within the cosmogram. Typically when there are two or more planets at the same point in time within a cosmogram this will correlate to more than one life in that time.

***************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 08, 2011, 10:57 AM
Hi Rad

Quote
Ari asked:
2."I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?"

**********************************
Rad answered:
Yes but it would also correlate to the Aries zone as well because of the natural cross that exists within it: Libra, Cancer, Capricorn within the Aries Zone.

So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra, Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you.
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 08, 2011, 11:41 AM
HI Ari,

"So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra, Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you."

****************************

 Yes, if and only if those other planets also had their own cosmograms that correlated to those zones. So if that Saturn in Cap has it's own cosmogram with Saturn on the top that then connects to other planets to form a cosmogram then it would then correlate to that Capricorn zone. Etc.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 08, 2011, 06:19 PM
Hi Rad,

Referring to the example below, I have a question:  In the Capricorn tally, in the time period between 7,570 - 7,660, various Capricorn archetypes recur a total of 16 times.  Is there some way I can narrow this down?

Thank you - this is quite exciting!

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/LindasWorldMapCosmogramswithquestionsforRad2nddraft.jpg)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 09, 2011, 11:48 AM
Hi Linda,

 First decrease your orb .... to two degrees. When JWG taught this stuff he always said use one degree. In my own work I have used two. So try that to see if that narrows it down some. Also, JWG never used the S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury, or Mars. Looking at what you sent that seems to be one of the reasons that you have so many in that year because of the links to the S.Nodes of those planets. So if you take them out see what you have then.

 The other thing to remember when this sort of duplication comes up is that it CAN mean a situation where the Soul has had early life endings and immediately desired to rebirth: a Soul can come back as early as seven days after a physical death.

 God Bless, Rad

p.s. Are you still interested in that Planetary Node thread ? 


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 09, 2011, 02:49 PM
Okay Rad, I will follow your suggestions, and re-work the map.
(And yes to your question regarding the planetary nodes thread.)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 09, 2011, 05:19 PM
Hi Rad,

Thank you for this information.    

I have two questions.

1.  In the case of a planet whose cosmogram includes only itself, i.e. there are no "branches" because it is not at the Ebertin midpoints of any other planets or planetary nodes -- is this still considered a referent, but just for one lifetime?  For example, my Uranus in Libra is alone in this way (Uranian irony noted!).  Would this correlate to a single lifetime in the Libra period of the Libra Sub-Age?

2.  With regard to the location of past lives, I didn't track clearly your answer to Ari's question.  My question also feels hard to articulate but here goes:  Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's cosmogram occur within the Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead planet's sign, cross-signs, or house position?  So for instance, for my cosmogram for South Node in Cancer in the 12th house, would all lifetimes indicated by the planets in that cosmogram have taken place in the Cancer, Aries, Libra, Capricorn, and/or Pisces zones?

3.  If my satement at the end of question two is accurate, is there any way of narrowing the places further?  Such as, is there a "home zone" among those five possibilities that all those lifetimes might be found to occur in?  And within the zones, might the degree of the signs provide more specific locational info?

Thank you again!
God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 09, 2011, 11:31 PM
Hi Rad,

Hoping this is correct.

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/WORLDMAP-withLindaslifetimes.jpg)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rose Marcus on Mar 10, 2011, 11:06 AM
Hello Rad (et al)

It is exceedingly generous of you to share this information with us, a big heartfelt thanks...


"Typically when there are two or more planets at the same point in time within a cosmogram this will correlate to more than one life in that time."

Question: so, does that mean if there is only one planet at any one point, that that indicates only one life, as opposed to 2 planets correlating to more than one life (meaning 2 lives, or 2 and possibly more?) at that time? Or is what you have said not that literal?

"Also, JWG never used the S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury, or Mars."

Question: Just to clarify - as I understand it then, you would not use the south nodes of Venus, Mercury, Mars as the apex/top of the cosmogram? But you would use them in the cosmogram?

Question: What is the differentiation between nodes and planets in reference to the cosmogram? I would think that a south node reference (or whatever planet you are looking at) would indicate a prior life reference link – is this south node indicating a life that came before, and by looking to the ruling planet for it’s cosmogram which could be in another region or time we would find the link? What is the link then? Would this suggest an immediate prior life? What other information could we surmise from finding a south node of some planet as a part (not the top/apex position) of the cosmogram?

Question:
What exactly does it mean when you have a planet at the top of cosmogram and a planet at the bottom? Is there any added significance - for this position - and from cosmograms that do not have this setup?

If there is simply a planet at a top position and a planet at the bottom position (just 2 positions) – is this a cosmogram?

Is there a way to tell how fast one might reincarnate? It is easy to surmise that the Uranus/Pluto conjunction indicates a quick turnaround, and that such aspects as Saturn/Pluto indicate a lengthier pause between lives. In this regard, is there more specific info that we can gain from studying these cosmograms? 

Lastly, in general do the planets correlate to the Ages, Subages, etc.? For example, Pluto is a 248 year transit – multiplied, that’s close to an Age. Uranus is an 84 year transit, that is close to a 90 year period. What about Saturn, etc?

I hope my questions are clear...

Thank you,
Blessings
Rose





Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 10, 2011, 11:22 AM
Hi Jason,

"I have two questions.

1.  In the case of a planet whose cosmogram includes only itself, i.e. there are no "branches" because it is not at the Ebertin midpoints of any other planets or planetary nodes -- is this still considered a referent, but just for one lifetime?  For example, my Uranus in Libra is alone in this way (Uranian irony noted!).  Would this correlate to a single lifetime in the Libra period of the Libra Sub-Age?"

*****************************************

The cosmograms, according to JWG, correlate to specific prior lifetimes that the Soul is actively drawing upon relative to the current EA purposes of any given Soul. With your Uranus not being part of an actual cosmogram this would correlate to one of two phenomena. One is that your Soul is drawing upon the collective experiences of a generation of Souls, all with Uranus in Libra, who have had direct experiences in those areas of the world that, in totality, affect your own individual EA purposes for your current life. The other possibility is one wherein you did have prior lives in those places yet are not directly linked to the current EA purposes of your life other than the generational sub-group who all have this Uranus in Libra. This entire sub-group thus acts in their own individual ways relative to the evolutionary needs and intentions for the entire planet relative to drawing upon the collective imprint from those times being brought forwards into this time.

************************************************

2. " With regard to the location of past lives, I didn't track clearly your answer to Ari's question.  My question also feels hard to articulate but here goes:  Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's cosmogram occur within the Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead planet's sign, cross-signs, or house position? "

****************************************************

Yes, IF those other planets within the cosmogram also have their own cosmograms linked to the their respective astrological geodetic zones. The house position of any given planet does of course correlate with a geodetic astrological zone, like your Uranus in Libra, yet unless such planets also have their own cosmogram they must be treated in the way as explained above relative to your Uranus in Libra.

*********************************************************

 "So for instance, for my cosmogram for South Node in Cancer in the 12th house, would all lifetimes indicated by the planets in that cosmogram have taken place in the Cancer, Aries, Libra, Capricorn, and/or Pisces zones?"

************************************************************

Yes ..............

***************************************************************

3."If my satement at the end of question two is accurate, is there any way of narrowing the places further?  Such as, is there a "home zone" among those five possibilities that all those lifetimes might be found to occur in?  And within the zones, might the degree of the signs provide more specific locational info? "

*********************************************************************

This is something that JWG tried to determine for some time. It came down to somehow being able to determine the latitude of places relative to the geodetic zones. In combination this would then lead to something like a cross hairs on the world maps for those specific prior lifetimes. The last part of this total geodetic technique that he tested for nearly 30 years remained one of those 'loose ends' that he continued to work with to the very end of his career.

*************************************************************************


God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 10, 2011, 11:52 AM
Hi Rose,


"Typically when there are two or more planets at the same point in time within a cosmogram this will correlate to more than one life in that time."

Question: so, does that mean if there is only one planet at any one point, that that indicates only one life, as opposed to 2 planets correlating to more than one life (meaning 2 lives, or 2 and possibly more?) at that time? Or is what you have said not that literal?

***************************************

It could be two or more. This same thing can be seen when a specific 90 year segment of time within a cosmogram is repeated more than once, as in Linda's case.

********************************************

"Also, JWG never used the S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury, or Mars."

Question: Just to clarify - as I understand it then, you would not use the south nodes of Venus, Mercury, Mars as the apex/top of the cosmogram? But you would use them in the cosmogram?

******************************************************

You are free to use them or not. In my own work I have found them to be very useful and accurate relative to prior lifetimes that the Soul is drawing upon relative to the current life EA purposes. So if you do use them they are used for the apex of a cosmogram, as well as within the trees of a cosmogram.

********************************************************

Question: What is the differentiation between nodes and planets in reference to the cosmogram? I would think that a south node reference (or whatever planet you are looking at) would indicate a prior life reference link – is this south node indicating a life that came before, and by looking to the ruling planet for it’s cosmogram which could be in another region or time we would find the link? What is the link then? Would this suggest an immediate prior life? What other information could we surmise from finding a south node of some planet as a part (not the top/apex position) of the cosmogram?

****************************************************************

All of the astrological symbols used in these cosmograms, planets and nodes, correlate to prior lifetimes. All prior lifetimes are 'linked' in one way or another.

****************************************************************

Question:
What exactly does it mean when you have a planet at the top of cosmogram and a planet at the bottom? Is there any added significance - for this position - and from cosmograms that do not have this setup?

*****************************************************************

There is no added significance for the purposes of determining prior lifetimes that connect to the EA purposes of the current life. Ebertine, who developed these cosmograms had nothing to do with any of this. His cosmograms were for psychological purposes. Thus, a planet at the apex in opposition to a planet at the end of the tree would be very similar, psychologically speaking, to an opposition aspect in a normal 360 degree zodiac.

*************************************************************

If there is simply a planet at a top position and a planet at the bottom position (just 2 positions) – is this a cosmogram?

************************************************************

Yes ................

***********************************************************

Is there a way to tell how fast one might reincarnate? It is easy to surmise that the Uranus/Pluto conjunction indicates a quick turnaround, and that such aspects as Saturn/Pluto indicate a lengthier pause between lives. In this regard, is there more specific info that we can gain from studying these cosmograms? 

*************************************************************

Not from the cosmograms themselves other than what has been stated so far, i.e. two or more planets in tandem within or on top of a cosmogram, the overlapping of 90 year segments within cosmograms. In the end, all of this must be referred and linked to the totality of the natal horoscope of any given Soul in order to answer those kinds of questions.

**********************************************************

Lastly, in general do the planets correlate to the Ages, Subages, etc.? For example, Pluto is a 248 year transit – multiplied, that’s close to an Age. Uranus is an 84 year transit, that is close to a 90 year period. What about Saturn, etc?

******************************************************************

No, the planets do not correlate with the Ages and sub-ages. The phenomena of Ages in general of course is Saturn, Capricorn, and the 10th House: the phenomena of time.

***********************************************

God Bless, Rad





Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 10, 2011, 11:55 AM
Hi Linda,

 As far as I can tell it looks good.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 12, 2011, 12:16 PM
Hi All,

 So do any of you have any questions at this point ?

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Mar 12, 2011, 04:59 PM
Hi Rad,

I haven't had time to go over the last couple of steps, will try and get some time over the two or three days and will get back then if I have any questions. But it shouldn't be a problem if everyone else is ready to go ahead, I'm sure I'll be able to catch up OK.

blessings Upasika


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Jane on Mar 14, 2011, 12:12 AM

Hello Rad and all,

Thank you to each of you for the input of knowledge that you write on this forum.

I have been following this thread with fascination, still learning, so I hope my questions are acceptable.

first I will give some info regarding my question.

venus/moon conj 1/2 deg orb Sag, conj moon SN in Sag, 9 deg orb, all in 4th house, ruled by scorpio.

I have the cosmogram here and there are very few planets involved, but one that seems to repeat, i.e. the venus/moon conj.

I realise that all past lives (cosmograms) are linked.

if my understanding is correct the 1/2 deg orb would make this a new phase aspect, and being so close to the moon SN, would be a fruition/relive/both.

my question is: if this is a new phase why would it be repeating so much, 4 times in only 5 cosmograms?

Also is there any way from the cosmogram to tell if this could be fruition, or relive.

I guess this question would be directed to Rad.

many thanks.

love to all,

Jane 


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 14, 2011, 08:03 AM
Hi Jane,

 First the function of these cosmograms is linked to phases at all. Phases and the issue/dynamic of fruition, relive, etc is linked to the normal 360 degree zodiac. Second is is necessary to know the actual degrees of your Moon and Mercury to know if that conjunction is a New Phase conjunction, or a Balsamic phase conjunction. Relative to their conjunction with your S.Node as the dynamics of relive or fruition can not be know from just these symbols themselves. The very nature of your life will of course tell you which one, or both, or in affect.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 14, 2011, 03:07 PM
Hi Rad,

I do have another logistical question: I have Moon in Scorpio exactly opposite Mars in Taurus, so they are at the same point in the Ebertin dial.  Like my Uranus in Libra mentioned above, they do not sit at any midpoints or opposite another planet on the dial.  However, do the two of them, "conjunct" on the dial, count as 0 cosmograms (in which case each planet interpreted in collective terms as you have described above), 1 cosmogram (if so, which one is the "lead" and why), or 2 cosmograms (i.e. a Taurus Age lifetime series with Taurus and Scorpio periods, and a Scorpio Sub-Age lifetime series with lifetimes in the Scorpio and Taurus periods)? 

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Jane on Mar 14, 2011, 09:09 PM
Hi Jane,

 First the function of these cosmograms is linked to phases at all. Phases and the issue/dynamic of fruition, relive, etc is linked to the normal 360 degree zodiac. Second is is necessary to know the actual degrees of your Moon and Mercury to know if that conjunction is a New Phase conjunction, or a Balsamic phase conjunction. Relative to their conjunction with your S.Node as the dynamics of relive or fruition can not be know from just these symbols themselves. The very nature of your life will of course tell you which one, or both, or in affect.

God Bless, Rad


Hello Rad,

Thank you for your time.

I feel that all phases be they 360 degs or Cosmogram are linked. They, altogether in some way form the present incarnation we are experiencing.

The phase, as stated is Venus/Moon New Phase conj, ½ deg orb, not Mercury. Am I missing something here regarding the mention of mercury? Just in case, more info.

Moon 3 Sag 07*, Venus 2 Sag 29 *, Mercury 26 Scorpio 53 *.

Moon/Venus conj  new phase, ½ deg orb.  Moon/Venus-mercury conj, balsamic 354 deg orb.?

I am in Spiritual state, and I am a teacher and healer.

I thank you for your time and help.

I will trust my intuition to give me my answer.

Love to all,

Jane


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 15, 2011, 08:20 AM
Hi Jason,

 No, they would not be cosmograms unless they have their own trees within them to other planets.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 15, 2011, 11:37 AM
Hi Jane,

 First the function of these cosmograms is linked to phases at all. Phases and the issue/dynamic of fruition, relive, etc is linked to the normal 360 degree zodiac. Second is is necessary to know the actual degrees of your Moon and Mercury to know if that conjunction is a New Phase conjunction, or a Balsamic phase conjunction. Relative to their conjunction with your S.Node as the dynamics of relive or fruition can not be know from just these symbols themselves. The very nature of your life will of course tell you which one, or both, or in affect.

God Bless, Rad


Hi Jane

"I feel that all phases be they 360 degs or Cosmogram are linked. They, altogether in some way form the present incarnation we are experiencing.

The phase, as stated is Venus/Moon New Phase conj, ½ deg orb, not Mercury. Am I missing something here regarding the mention of mercury? Just in case, more info."

*********************

No. I was blurry eyed when I read your post, very late at night.

*******************

"Moon 3 Sag 07*, Venus 2 Sag 29 *, Mercury 26 Scorpio 53 *.

Moon/Venus conj  new phase, ½ deg orb.  Moon/Venus-mercury conj, balsamic 354 deg orb.?"

*********************

Mercury is balsamic to Venus, Venus balsamic to your Moon, Mercury balsamic to your Moon

********************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Mar 17, 2011, 03:10 PM
Rad, are there more steps to this process?

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 17, 2011, 04:18 PM
Jason:  " With regard to the location of past lives, I didn't track clearly your answer to Ari's question.  My question also feels hard to articulate but here goes:  Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's cosmogram occur within the Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead planet's sign, cross-signs, or house position? "

****************************************************

Rad:  Yes, IF those other planets within the cosmogram also have their own cosmograms linked to the their respective astrological geodetic zones. The house position of any given planet does of course correlate with a geodetic astrological zone, like your Uranus in Libra, yet unless such planets also have their own cosmogram they must be treated in the way as explained above relative to your Uranus in Libra.


Rad,

Just making sure I understand you properly.  

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/WORLDMAP-withLindaslifetimesincludingticksandcrosses.jpg)

From the example above, the Venus/Cap cosmogram has been duplicated and transferred to its Capricorn cross-zones:  Libra - Aries - Cancer.  From there, ONLY those planets that are ALREADY in that geodetic zone that also appear in the Venus/Cap cosmogram are valid (ticked).  

Question:  Looking at the LIBRA geodetic zone and specifically to Pluto/Leo and Uranus/Leo, that zone now contains all of these periods:    

190 - 280
Pluto/Leo

190 - 280
Pluto/Leo

190 - 280
Uranus/Leo

6,940 - 7,030
Pluto/Leo

6,940 - 7,030
Uranus/Leo

Just not sure how to interpret all of these dates (time periods).  From the above, I gather 3 lifetimes were lived between 190 - 280 BC (perhaps early deaths) correlating to the Pluto/Leo and Uranus/Leo archetypes, and 2 lifetimes lived between 6,940 - 7,030 BC correlating to the Pluto/Leo and Uranus/Leo archetypes.  

Am I on the right track?  If I am indeed on the right track, I will have to update the world map to include all the cross-zone planets/periods.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 18, 2011, 07:59 AM
Hi Linda,
 
 No, this is not correct. I see your confusion because of how I answered Jason's question. I misread his question:

 " Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's cosmogram occur within the Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead planet's sign, cross-signs, or house position?"

The answer to this should have been no. I am really glad you caught this Linda. Many time when I come to our message board it is quite late at night after I have done much work. Sometimes I miss things like this. In any case the answer is no to that question. Sorry to all who got confused by this.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 18, 2011, 08:02 AM
Hi taf,

 First, please see my answer to Linda concerning my misreading of one of your last questions. Sorry for my mistake. Second, there is no further steps in these geodetic equivalents.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 18, 2011, 11:56 AM
Hi taf,

 One thing that JWG postulated and taught about these various cosmograms is that whatever planets are involved in the cosmograms, each one, correlated to the core archetypes in the consciousness of the Soul that were the bottom lines in each of the lives symbolized by those cosmograms. So in the original example that I posted it would mean those four planets were the active archetypes in the life of that cosmogram.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Mar 18, 2011, 02:24 PM
Rad,

I very much appreciate the time you have taken to teach me (us) about geodetic equivalents, and also answering many questions.  This thread has been a great learning experience.  


One thing that JWG postulated and taught about these various cosmograms is that whatever planets are involved in the cosmograms, each one, correlated to the core archetypes in the consciousness of the Soul that were the bottom lines in each of the lives symbolized by those cosmograms. So in the original example that I posted it would mean those four planets were the active archetypes in the life of that cosmogram.

This teaching really brings it all together!

Thank you.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Mar 18, 2011, 04:58 PM

 One thing that JWG postulated and taught about these various cosmograms is that whatever planets are involved in the cosmograms, each one, correlated to the core archetypes in the consciousness of the Soul that were the bottom lines in each of the lives symbolized by those cosmograms. So in the original example that I posted it would mean those four planets were the active archetypes in the life of that cosmogram.


Hi Rad,

What do you mean by "life of that cosmogram"?  Does a single cosmogram, and the planets therein, have a specific function of wholeness?  What I mean is: does the lead planet have any sort of baseline meaning, other than Age/Sub-Age, whereby the other planets in that cosmogram are then related to the lead planet?  I've been wondering about this for a while but think I missed the explanation somehow.

Since the basis for these cosmograms is the lead planet being located at the midpoint to other planets which come later in time...In our example, Mars is the lead planet in the cosmogram.  It is at the midpoint of Jupiter & Venus.  Would Jupiter & Venus, because of this and because they come AFTER Mars in terms of generic time (Mars = 2,260-2,170BC / Venus = 2,080-1,990BC / Jupiter = 1,720-1,630BC) be interpreted in relation to Mars?  As though something from the archetype and life experiences concentrated in that Mars has been carried over into the Jupiter & Venus lives...something that must also correlate to the evolutionary signature of the current life, and yet specific to Mars?  Or does all interpretation still arise from the natal chart?  



I'm also still confused about the purpose of the crosses within each Geodetic Zone.  And why we correlated the initial planets in our natal chart, by house specifically, to these zones when later the lead planets of a cosmogram are located specifically to the zone of their sign?  What does it mean in terms of Geodetic equivalents, say, if my Mars in Aries is located in the 3rd House in my natal chart?  At first we correlated it to all the different zones (Gemini for 3rd House, Aries for sign, and then Libra, Cancer, Capricorn because of the cross within Aries), but then after the cosmograms have been made that Mars gets locked, so to speak, in its own Aries zone.  And then if Mars is linked in another planet's cosmogram it is also located in that planet's zone of sign.

I know I must be missing something right in front of me, but could you explain again why we did all the different zone correlations in the beginning before the cosmograms were made?

Much appreciated,
taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 18, 2011, 10:29 PM
Hi Rad,

I too appreciate your generosity in sharing this information. 

About my earlier question which seemed to create confusion, my apologies.  Although you had answered "incorrectly" I did get it clearly I think thanks to others' questions.

If I have understood correctly, lifetimes described by a planet, no matter whose cosmogram they are contained within, always occur in either their geodetic sign zone, cross sign zones, or house zone.  Is this correct?

To test this understanding, I would like to try an example.  This is the Venus cosmogram of a chart I am working on:

                 Venus in Leo (5th)
                           |
Moon in Libra (6th) -- Uranus in Sagittarius (7th)

Both the Moon and Uranus have their own cosmograms and therefore "count" if I have understood correctly.  So, this cosmogram shows the following connected lifetimes which the current Venus reflects and draws from in the accomplishment of its evolutionary intentions:
 
Based on Venus, a lifetime or lifetimes occurred in:
10,900-10,810 (Leo Age, Leo Period) in any of the Fixed zones.

Based on the Moon, a lifetime or lifetimes occurred in:
10,720-10,630 (Leo Age, Libra Period) in the Cardinal zones and/or the Virgo zone (6th house).

Based on the Uranus, a lifetime or lifetimes occurred in:
10,540-10,450 (Leo Age, Sagittarius Period) in the Mutable zones and/or the Libra zone (7th house).

Is this correct?

God bless,
Jason



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Mar 18, 2011, 10:49 PM
Hi Rad,

I have two more questions I have encountered in another chart I am working on.

1.  When one side of a cosmogram branch is a planet which does not have a cosmogram of its own, what happens to the planet on the other side of the branch?  

For example:

                Uranus
                    |
         SN ---------- Saturn

For the purpose of this example, let us say that the Saturn does not have a cosmogram of its own, but the South Node does.  Then for this Uranus cosmogram, I understand that the Saturn will not be considered a lifetime or lifetimes referent either, but what about the South Node on the other side?  Is it still used even though its branchmate is not?
 
2.  What happens when none of the planets in a planet’s cosmogram have cosmograms of their own?  So to use another example:
                        Pluto
                            |
      Moon ------------------ Saturn

Let’s say that the Moon and Saturn are the only branches on this Pluto cosmogram.  However, both Moon and Saturn do not have cosmograms of their own.  I understand that this means that in this cosmogram neither the Moon nor Saturn refer to specific periods or zones in which lifetimes occurred.  But does Pluto still represent a time period and geographic zones in which specific incarnations occurred, or is it now treated as a planet without a cosmogram since its cosmogram branches don’t “count”?   And if it is now treated as a planet without a cosmogram, would it then also not be “counted” on the cosmograms of other planets?

Thanks again, God bless,
Jason




Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 19, 2011, 08:38 AM
Hi Jason,

What do you mean by "life of that cosmogram"?  Does a single cosmogram, and the planets therein, have a specific function of wholeness?  What I mean is: does the lead planet have any sort of baseline meaning, other than Age/Sub-Age, whereby the other planets in that cosmogram are then related to the lead planet?  I've been wondering about this for a while but think I missed the explanation somehow.

Since the basis for these cosmograms is the lead planet being located at the midpoint to other planets which come later in time...In our example, Mars is the lead planet in the cosmogram.  It is at the midpoint of Jupiter & Venus.  Would Jupiter & Venus, because of this and because they come AFTER Mars in terms of generic time (Mars = 2,260-2,170BC / Venus = 2,080-1,990BC / Jupiter = 1,720-1,630BC) be interpreted in relation to Mars?  As though something from the archetype and life experiences concentrated in that Mars has been carried over into the Jupiter & Venus lives...something that must also correlate to the evolutionary signature of the current life, and yet specific to Mars?  Or does all interpretation still arise from the natal chart? 

*************************************************

Excellent question and one I should have addressed yesterday. Sorry for being remiss. In our example cosmogram Mars in Aries in the lead planet because it is at the top of the cosmogram. For the life that that Mars connects too it should be treated as the 'lead' planet for that life, the core archetype or bottom line upon which the other planets in that cosmogram contribute as core archetypes for that life. With Saturn at the opposite point of Mars this should be seen as correlative to an opposition to that Mars in that life, and the Jupiter and Venus as squares to both Mars and Saturn. In total all four of those planets thus correlate to the core archetypes of that life where Mars is the lead: like an ascendant. So this would be the life symbolized as between 2,260 to 2,170.

The next 90 year segment within that cosmogram connects to Venus: 2,080 to 1,990. Now we will make Venus the lead planet for that life, as if it is on top. This then puts Jupiter at the bottom, and Mars and Saturn to each side.

The next 90 year segment within that cosmogram connects to Jupiter: 1,720 to 1,630. Now we will make Jupiter the lead planet for that life, as if it is on top. This then puts Venus at the bottom, and Mars and Saturn to either side.

The next 90 year segment within that cosmogram connects to Saturn: 1,450 to 1,360. Now we will make Saturn the lead planet for that life, as if it is on top. This then puts Mars at the bottom, and the Jupiter and Venus to either side.

You can see in this way of understanding the cosmograms that the archetypes involved came full circle through the progression of the lives as symbolized in our Mars cosmogram linked with the Aries geodetic astrological zone, and the natural cross of the other signs within it.

This is the exact procedure to follow for all of the cosmograms.


********************************************

I'm also still confused about the purpose of the crosses within each Geodetic Zone.  And why we correlated the initial planets in our natal chart, by house specifically, to these zones when later the lead planets of a cosmogram are located specifically to the zone of their sign?  What does it mean in terms of Geodetic equivalents, say, if my Mars in Aries is located in the 3rd House in my natal chart?  At first we correlated it to all the different zones (Gemini for 3rd House, Aries for sign, and then Libra, Cancer, Capricorn because of the cross within Aries), but then after the cosmograms have been made that Mars gets locked, so to speak, in its own Aries zone.  And then if Mars is linked in another planet's cosmogram it is also located in that planet's zone of sign.

*************************************************

It means exactly what you have answered yourself here in terms of the correct geodetic procedures to use.

***********************************************

I know I must be missing something right in front of me, but could you explain again why we did all the different zone correlations in the beginning before the cosmograms were made?

************************************************************

It's a combination of methods relative to geodetic equivalents who intention is to demonstrate the prior lifetimes upon which the Soul, in total, is drawing upon relative to it's evolutionary intentions. </

******************************

God Bless, Rad




Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 19, 2011, 08:43 AM
Hi Jason,

I too appreciate your generosity in sharing this information. 

About my earlier question which seemed to create confusion, my apologies.  Although you had answered "incorrectly" I did get it clearly I think thanks to others' questions.

If I have understood correctly, lifetimes described by a planet, no matter whose cosmogram they are contained within, always occur in either their geodetic sign zone, cross sign zones, or house zone.  Is this correct?

*******************************

Yes............

********************************

To test this understanding, I would like to try an example.  This is the Venus cosmogram of a chart I am working on:

                 Venus in Leo (5th)
                           |
Moon in Libra (6th) -- Uranus in Sagittarius (7th)

Both the Moon and Uranus have their own cosmograms and therefore "count" if I have understood correctly.  So, this cosmogram shows the following connected lifetimes which the current Venus reflects and draws from in the accomplishment of its evolutionary intentions:
 
Based on Venus, a lifetime or lifetimes occurred in:
10,900-10,810 (Leo Age, Leo Period) in any of the Fixed zones.

Based on the Moon, a lifetime or lifetimes occurred in:
10,720-10,630 (Leo Age, Libra Period) in the Cardinal zones and/or the Virgo zone (6th house).

Based on the Uranus, a lifetime or lifetimes occurred in:
10,540-10,450 (Leo Age, Sagittarius Period) in the Mutable zones and/or the Libra zone (7th house).

Is this correct?

*************************************

Yes .................

*****************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 19, 2011, 08:53 AM
Hi Jason,

I have two more questions I have encountered in another chart I am working on.

1.  When one side of a cosmogram branch is a planet which does not have a cosmogram of its own, what happens to the planet on the other side of the branch?  

For example:

                Uranus
                    |
         SN ---------- Saturn

For the purpose of this example, let us say that the Saturn does not have a cosmogram of its own, but the South Node does.  Then for this Uranus cosmogram, I understand that the Saturn will not be considered a lifetime or lifetimes referent either, but what about the South Node on the other side?  Is it still used even though its branchmate is not?

***********************************************

It does not matter if the Saturn, in you example, has it's own cosmogram or not relative to the Uranus cosmogram you have presented. The fact that Uranus is at the top and that it does connect to both the S.Node and Saturn makes that Saturn 'count'. So it will then have it's own 90 year segment of time relative to the Uranus cosmogram above.

*******************************************************
 
2.  What happens when none of the planets in a planet’s cosmogram have cosmograms of their own?  So to use another example:
                        Pluto
                            |
      Moon ------------------ Saturn

Let’s say that the Moon and Saturn are the only branches on this Pluto cosmogram.  However, both Moon and Saturn do not have cosmograms of their own.  I understand that this means that in this cosmogram neither the Moon nor Saturn refer to specific periods or zones in which lifetimes occurred.  But does Pluto still represent a time period and geographic zones in which specific incarnations occurred, or is it now treated as a planet without a cosmogram since its cosmogram branches don’t “count”?   And if it is now treated as a planet without a cosmogram, would it then also not be “counted” on the cosmograms of other planets?

***********************************************

Yes. ANY PLANET THAT HAS OTHER PLANETS AS PART OF IT'S COSMOGRAM 'COUNTS'. It does not matter if the planets within that cosmogram of the lead planet have their own cosmograms or not. Relative to that lead planet, in your example Pluto, the fact that it does connect to the Moon and Saturn within it makes all three 90 year time segments count. If the Moon and Saturn do not have their own cosmograms DOES NOT MATTER.

******************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on Mar 21, 2011, 07:27 PM
Rad,

Thank You for sharing all of this here. 
I am very excited to study and learn this in time. If I need help understanding, I know I can ask; thank you. 
I have been working on more reflections of the planetary nodes of Venus which I am posting on that thread.
I have been missing you all and the message board.  I have continued in focus and study of EA when other life responsibilities are not required being met.

Much Love,
Bradley


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 22, 2011, 12:07 AM
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has advice or technique for creating cosmograms in an easy way. There must be a more accurate way of calculating these other than using the lines of a circular piece of paper to measure.

Also, Linda, Jason and Taf thank you for your great questions! I finally caught up on this thread tonight and your thorough questions really helped me "get it". With Love,
am


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Mar 22, 2011, 03:59 PM
Hi Ari,

Not sure if this is what you are referring to, but in Solar Fire if you have it, when in the View Chart screen you can see a chart as a dial. On the right hand side of the screen, directly above the Redraw button there is a dropdown box. Clicking on the little downwards pointing arrow at the right side of this box drops down a list of display options, either Wheel or Dial. I was able to create cosmograms for each planet using that screen and then they could be printed out if you wished. Maybe this helps?

Upasika


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Upasika on Mar 22, 2011, 04:03 PM
Hi Rad,

I have fallen behind on this thread a bit. I've followed along and read all the posts and think I understand everything but haven't applied it to my chart yet. When I get time to do this (in a while) hopefully it's ok if I have any questions I can ask you then.

Upasika


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on Mar 22, 2011, 06:38 PM
Rad,

Thanks so much for your answers.  I am pondering some more aspects of the whole method and will eventually articulate them into more questions, but it may take a little bit of time.

One quick question (although not thoroughly thought out): If there are other branches on a cosmogram do they also refer to the symbolism of a square aspect?  

         Mars

Jupiter         Venus

Moon           Mercury

         Saturn

In the above modification to the original example, would both the Jupiter/Venus & the Moon/Mercury be considered "squares" to Mars/Saturn?  And what would happen then when we arrive in our investigations to the Venus lifetime?  How does it look with Venus at the lead?  Would Mercury then be a conjunction even if it is in a different sign from Venus, or still a square?

And are we qualifying the square-like aspects with First Quarter/Last Quarter?  Or do they simply mean the tension of the archetypes (say Mars/Jupiter & Mars/Saturn) within the Mars lifetime (2,260 - 2,170BC), as they are drawn upon by the current Soul, are symbolic of a generic square or opposition aspect, respectively?  Or could it be that Mars would be involved in a First Quarter Square with the next planet coming in time: Mars/Venus first quarter square?  Thus, in our example, Mars/Jupiter would be a Last Quarter square?


Furthermore, are the cosmogram aspects considered squares or oppositions due to any specific reason?  I know I still have much to learn regarding midpoints, etc, and I will also continue to contemplate the whole of Geodetic Equivalents, cosmograms, etc, as applied to EA, but just wanted to ask if JWG left explanations regarding these somewhat mundane considerations.

Kindly,

taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 23, 2011, 09:09 AM
Hi Jason,

Thanks so much for your answers.  I am pondering some more aspects of the whole method and will eventually articulate them into more questions, but it may take a little bit of time.

One quick question (although not thoroughly thought out): If there are other branches on a cosmogram do they also refer to the symbolism of a square aspect?  

****************************************

We can use the symbolism of a square, or semi-square, etc but the underlying dynamic is one of developmental/ evolutionary stress.

**************************************************

         Mars

Jupiter         Venus

Moon           Mercury

         Saturn

In the above modification to the original example, would both the Jupiter/Venus & the Moon/Mercury be considered "squares" to Mars/Saturn?

****************************************

Again, yes we can consider them this way but, again, the real underlying dynamic is one of developmental/ evolutionary stress within the planetary archetypes involved.

*********************************************

 And what would happen then when we arrive in our investigations to the Venus lifetime?  How does it look with Venus at the lead?  Would Mercury then be a conjunction even if it is in a different sign from Venus, or still a square?

****************************************************

It would be treated as a conjunction.

*****************************************************

And are we qualifying the square-like aspects with First Quarter/Last Quarter?  Or do they simply mean the tension of the archetypes (say Mars/Jupiter & Mars/Saturn) within the Mars lifetime (2,260 - 2,170BC), as they are drawn upon by the current Soul, are symbolic of a generic square or opposition aspect, respectively?  Or could it be that Mars would be involved in a First Quarter Square with the next planet coming in time: Mars/Venus first quarter square?  Thus, in our example, Mars/Jupiter would be a Last Quarter square?

********************************************

In these cosmograms there no distinctions for first quarter, last quarter squares, nor are there distinctions for new phase or balsamic conjunctions. Thus, they are treated, as you put it, generically. The core dynamic here is one of tension or stress relative to the archetypes involved where that stress correlates to intense evolutionary growth because of the stress itself.

******************************************

Furthermore, are the cosmogram aspects considered squares or oppositions due to any specific reason?  I know I still have much to learn regarding midpoints, etc, and I will also continue to contemplate the whole of Geodetic Equivalents, cosmograms, etc, as applied to EA, but just wanted to ask if JWG left explanations regarding these somewhat mundane considerations.

***********************************************

From what I understand of Eberteins work is that any planets involved in the cosmograms correlate to developmental stress. Thus, the rationale for the symbolism of squares, oppositions, and conjunctions. JWG focused more on the interaction of the planetary archetypes themselves within the cosmograms as key markers in the Soul's evolutionary development that apply to the current life EA purposes of the Soul. When those archetypes are then linked to specific times and places, geographic and cultural context, this then can provide contextual information as to how and why those archetypes were actualized in the ways that they were and how this, in turn, correlates to the inner dynamics within the Soul that help us understand how and why the Soul has become what it is now, the current life.

***********************************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 24, 2011, 03:56 PM
Quote
Hi Ari,

Not sure if this is what you are referring to, but in Solar Fire if you have it, when in the View Chart screen you can see a chart as a dial. On the right hand side of the screen, directly above the Redraw button there is a dropdown box. Clicking on the little downwards pointing arrow at the right side of this box drops down a list of display options, either Wheel or Dial. I was able to create cosmograms for each planet using that screen and then they could be printed out if you wished. Maybe this helps?

Upasika

That's perfect, thank you Upasika. Also for anyone with solar fire, it's possible to change the orb used for these cosmograms.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 24, 2011, 06:58 PM
Hi Rad, all
I'm going over a number of things here. Thank you rad for your time in reviewing this. Hopefully this is a helpful example.

First, here's a copy of my own Venus cosmogram. I have programed solar fire to only include the planets that are relevant for our purposes. I just want to include it so others can see what solar fire can do.

(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/AriMosheVenuscosmogram-2.jpg)

I notice that Uranus can be at the end of the cosmogram. Solar fire does not add that option. Also, the sn of Mercury can be included as well. So here is the complete cosmogram (I'm excludingng  Ceres for now):


                             Venus (Libra 1,180-1,090)

Moon (Scorpio 1,090-1000)    ----      Mercury (Sag 1000-910)
Moon (Scorpio 1,090-1000)    ----      Neptune (Sag 1000-910)
Jupiter (Sag 1,000-910)        ----      sn Mercury (Sag 1000-910)

                             Uranus (Sag 1000-910)

And here is a copy of my own natal chart that this is based on. (http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/AriMosheWolfewithnodes.jpg)

Regions: Venus is in my natal second house in Libra pointing to the Taurus zone as well as the Cardinal zones as the primary emphasis for these lifetimes. As I understand it, this will point to the core lifetimes through which these particular dynamics have come into play. All other lifetimes as indicated by the other planets in the cosmogram would symbolize the developments of the evolutionary theme of the core lifetimes and the places of those lifetimes as indicated by the lead planet. Is this accurate?

All the other planets point to the mutable and fixed geodetic zones as well as the subsequent 180 years after the Libra lifetime(s). This seems to in fact point to a very specific era in the history of this soul, one that spanned it seems a very short period of time. The relevant history of that time period linked to those zones will reveal where and perhaps how these dynamics came into play.

The cardinal zones during 1,180-1,090, and most likely the Aries zone would point to the main developmental theme of this entire cosmogram.

Given the strong Scorpio emphasis, the Taurus zone is in fact emphasized here. Scorpio doesn't have much geodetic significance it seems, however Aquarius and Leo does so those may have also been significant. The Sagittarius and Gemini zones are also emphasized here (Virgo and Pisces, like Scorpio doesn't seem to hold much geodetic significance in and of itself. So it's possible that these zones came into play, but most unlikely).

Based on this, researching the life of those appropriate regions within those ages would provide a very general historical context.

All of this can point to key lifetimes in what we call Western Europe, most of Africa, Israel, India and anywhere along the mid-america continent.

Relative to the evolutionary dynamics implied by my own Venus in my chart (how it fits in with the ea signatures in my chart), which in short is connected to the development of self esteem, self trust and various relationship dynamics involving the loss of power, being dishonest about my own intentions in relationship, living as an ascetic monk/ hermit type existence, psychology of lonliness and isolation, as well as a holding pattern that has been brought over through the etheric body based on sexual or emotional trauma that I have held onto - this life being a culmination of this particular cycle (Venus Pluto balsamic)... these time zones and regions will point to those very dynamics.
Given the other planets in the cosmogram, this correlates to the lifetimes of wandering aimlessly w/out a home as well as having been a part of various schools or monastic type enviroments. This will also bring in many of the traumas I have experienced relative to the loss of sacred knowledge, moving from place to place, alienation, and martyrdom. Many dynamics around my personal relationship to home, and relationship to being still and grounded in this earth will come up through this.

For me, this feels like a starting point for a deep inner journey into these places. Besides for the actual research, just pinpointing such a specific time period and regions opens my intuitive senses up and feels like a gateway for an inner journey to the past.

I feel the truth in this as I write it. This is very profound knowledge. I would however like a confirmation that I am on track with how I understand this!

Thank you, God bless,
am


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Mar 24, 2011, 07:06 PM
Hi Rad,

I have a couple more q's:
1. Since the soul often revisits actual geographic locations of past reincarnations, or at least will hold a strong interest in those locations, I sense that the places I have been drawn to since a child, as well as the places in the world I have made significant visit to will actually help pinpoint some of these geographic regions. For example Within the first 20 years of my life I had in fact visited Israel 4 times. I have also had a deep obsession with that land and its history.

2. I understand that the Sun and the angles do not correlate to the past, however there is always a reason, from the point of view of the past, why any soul would have a particular Sun sign as well as the 4 angles of the chart. When the Sun or the angels are forming aspects to the nodes, would it ever be appropriate to create a cosmogram for them? Thank you.
God bless,
Ari Moshe


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 25, 2011, 08:27 AM
Hi Ari,

 Yes because they would be applied TO THIS LIFE.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Jane on Mar 28, 2011, 12:39 AM
Hello Rad,

As I am learning may I ask a question?
If there are close conjunctions, less than 2* orb, between planets, does this form a Cosmogram?

Put a different way, if the planets on the branches are conjunct the head planet at the top, by less than 2* orb, does this form a Cosmogram?

Many thanks,
Jane.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 28, 2011, 08:42 AM
Hi Jane,


"As I am learning may I ask a question?"

**********************

You may ask any questions you have Jane.

********************************

"If there are close conjunctions, less than 2* orb, between planets, does this form a Cosmogram?"

**********************************

If you mean that those two planets that are conjunct by less than two degrees have other planets that would form a cosmogram then yes. If you mean that those two planets that are conjunct by less than two degrees do not have any other planets that would connect them to a cosmogram then those two planets, by themselves, do not constitute a cosmogram.

*****************************************

"Put a different way, if the planets on the branches are conjunct the head planet at the top, by less than 2* orb, does this form a Cosmogram?"

*****************************************

See above.

****************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: imsara on Apr 03, 2011, 05:37 AM
Hi everyone..I would certainly like to learn more about geodectic equivalents..thanks for the opportunity..imsara :D


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Apr 03, 2011, 04:02 PM
Hi Rad,

Just following your step-by-step instructions.............


PHASE I

Symbols in our birth charts were linked to the natural zodiacal zones on the Earth...........

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/BarakObamaGeodeticEquivalents2-2-1.jpg)


PHASE II

We created our own cosmograms.............


PHASE III

We added the data from our cosmograms to the world map..............

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/WORLDMAP-withLindaslifetimes.jpg)


QUESTION:  What was the purpose of the first exercise (Phase I)?  


QUESTION:  Should we be referring to Phase III only (created from cosmograms) as it gives much more contextual information?  

Your Quote:  "JWG focused more on the interaction of the planetary archetypes themselves within the cosmograms as key markers in the Soul's evolutionary development that apply to the current life EA purposes of the Soul. When those archetypes are then linked to specific times and places, geographic and cultural context, this then can provide contextual information as to how and why those archetypes were actualized in the ways that they were and how this, in turn, correlates to the inner dynamics within the Soul that help us understand how and why the Soul has become what it is now, the current life."


QUESTION:  Using my Leo zone as an example, is there some way one can ascertain the actual country of significance?  The Leo zone contains Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Russia and other countries?  Or is it just a matter of linking these times/places/cultures to the cosmogramical archetypes?


QUESTION:  Could it be possible that segments of the current Pluto/Leo generation had prior lives in Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Russia or other countries in the Leo zone?


QUESTION:  My current lifetime pertains to the Virgo zone (Australia).  I care very much for the Earth and feel at one with the ecosystem.  Could one possible interpretation be that I, along with a segment of the Pluto/Leo generation, had lived in this country 13,500 years ago (pre-patriarchy) as early Aborigines (or other cosmic dimensional beings), united with Nature/Everything in unity consciousness -- and in the current lifetime are fulfilling evolutionary intentions/obligations associated with perhaps clearing trauma from the unconscious due to pre-historic cataclysmic events?    


QUESTION:  Using my Leo/Virgo zones as an example, I can actually see the repeating themes in these cosmograms as they relate to the current lifetime since I now actually live in this zone (Australia).  My interpretation is that in this Leo/Virgo zone I have undergone immense evolutionary leaps in consciousness, such as metamorphosis (Pluto) and transformation (Uranus), with some of the key issues perhaps originating some 12,500 years ago.  Is my interpretation on the right track do you think?


Sorry about the number of questions -- these have been on my mind for a while.

Thank you so much for your guidance.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 04, 2011, 08:23 AM
Hi Linda,

"Just following your step-by-step instructions.............


PHASE I

Symbols in our birth charts were linked to the natural zodiacal zones on the Earth...........

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/BarakObamaGeodeticEquivalents2-2-1.jpg)


PHASE II

We created our own cosmograms.............


PHASE III

We added the data from our cosmograms to the world map..............

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/lindatjonson/WORLDMAP-withLindaslifetimes.jpg)


QUESTION:  What was the purpose of the first exercise (Phase I)?  

************************************************************

It's a combination of methods relative to geodetic equivalents whose intention is to demonstrate the prior lifetimes upon which the Soul, in total, is drawing upon relative to it's evolutionary intentions.

***************************************************************

QUESTION:  Should we be referring to Phase III only (created from cosmograms) as it gives much more contextual information?  

Your Quote:  "JWG focused more on the interaction of the planetary archetypes themselves within the cosmograms as key markers in the Soul's evolutionary development that apply to the current life EA purposes of the Soul. When those archetypes are then linked to specific times and places, geographic and cultural context, this then can provide contextual information as to how and why those archetypes were actualized in the ways that they were and how this, in turn, correlates to the inner dynamics within the Soul that help us understand how and why the Soul has become what it is now, the current life."

*************************************************************************

Both methods are meant to be combined Linda to see the total picture for the Soul.

**********************************************************************

QUESTION:  Using my Leo zone as an example, is there some way one can ascertain the actual country of significance?  The Leo zone contains Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Russia and other countries?  Or is it just a matter of linking these times/places/cultures to the cosmogramical archetypes?

******************************************************************

This was a question that JWG worked with for the entire time of his work. He never formally taught any specific way or technique to arrive at an answer for this question. You will find in your work that your clients or friends that you work with in this way will naturally resonate with specific countries over others when working with their geodetic world map, and the cosmograms themselves.

******************************************************************

QUESTION:  Could it be possible that segments of the current Pluto/Leo generation had prior lives in Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Russia or other countries in the Leo zone?

********************************************************************

Yes, and you could include the fabled Lemuria as well.

*****************************************************************

QUESTION:  My current lifetime pertains to the Virgo zone (Australia).  I care very much for the Earth and feel at one with the ecosystem.  Could one possible interpretation be that I, along with a segment of the Pluto/Leo generation, had lived in this country 13,500 years ago (pre-patriarchy) as early Aborigines (or other cosmic dimensional beings), united with Nature/Everything in unity consciousness -- and in the current lifetime are fulfilling evolutionary intentions/obligations associated with perhaps clearing trauma from the unconscious due to pre-historic cataclysmic events?  

********************************************************************

Yes.

*******************************************************************

QUESTION:  Using my Leo/Virgo zones as an example, I can actually see the repeating themes in these cosmograms as they relate to the current lifetime since I now actually live in this zone (Australia).  My interpretation is that in this Leo/Virgo zone I have undergone immense evolutionary leaps in consciousness, such as metamorphosis (Pluto) and transformation (Uranus), with some of the key issues perhaps originating some 12,500 years ago.  Is my interpretation on the right track do you think?

********************************************************************

Yes, and your own life examples the incredible EA use of these cosmograms and the geodetic world map for all Souls.

******************************************************************

God Bless, Rad






Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Wendy on Apr 06, 2011, 06:06 PM
Hi Rad and All,

I am attempting to pick up where I left off a ways back.  I have some sacred space right now and have time to dedicate to moving forward.  I filled out the world map with the planetary nodal themes from my chart and began to place them on the Kossmogram, and then got stuck when I needed to apply the cosmodial to the Kossmogram.  Did anyone else have this challenge? did you reduce the size of the cosmodial to fit within the wheel of the Kossmogram to make it easier to correlate the units of time?

Any direction here would be immensely helpful.

Thanks,
Wendy


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Apr 06, 2011, 06:29 PM
Hi Wendy,

At first I decreased the size of the dial thinking it would make it easier - but that did not work.  You need to print both the cosmogram and the dial without reduction.

You'll find that the dial (containing the arrow) will fit exactly into the cosmogram.  It's a little rough, but it does work. 

And remember to use an orb of 1-2 degrees - JWG used a 1 deg orb, and Rad uses a 2 degree orb.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Wendy on Apr 06, 2011, 06:52 PM
Thanks Linda.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on Apr 07, 2011, 07:00 PM

QUESTION:  Using my Leo/Virgo zones as an example, I can actually see the repeating themes in these cosmograms as they relate to the current lifetime since I now actually live in this zone (Australia).  My interpretation is that in this Leo/Virgo zone I have undergone immense evolutionary leaps in consciousness, such as metamorphosis (Pluto) and transformation (Uranus), with some of the key issues perhaps originating some 12,500 years ago.  Is my interpretation on the right track do you think?

********************************************************************

Yes, and your own life examples the incredible EA use of these cosmograms and the geodetic world map for all Souls.

God Bless, Rad



For sure!  As Uranus correlates to astrology, in this zone where I now live, I'm learning the incredible EA use of cosmograms and geodetic world maps.  ;)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 08, 2011, 07:30 AM
Hi Linda,

 Yeah .............

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Gonzalo on Apr 09, 2011, 01:13 PM
(this comes from other thread but belongs here)

Quote
Second, the use of the geodetic astrological zones is used in conjunction with the cosmograms. Not just the cosmograms, or just the geodetic zones, but both. What has been presented on this message board about these methods is just the bare bones of them. In the case of chart 2 we can clearly see the direct correlation through the geodetic zones to the lives in that zone. It does not mean that because there is no actual cosmogram linked with the Ages and their sub-ages that that Soul did not have lives at that time in those zones. The actual cosmograms that can result from any birth chart linked with specific times and their respective astrological zones correlates to specific archetypes within the consciousness of the Soul that has been brought forwards into a current life for their own evolutionary needs and reasons.

If there are no cosmograms linked with the geodetic zones of a past life, could the Soul have memories of these past lives not reflected in the cosmograms/geodetic zones?

***********************************

Yes...............

**************************************


I am not sure if I am understanding well how the archetypes of the birhchart reflect the astrological ages/sub-ages of prior lifetimes. As an example to clarify my question: my  birthchart has a stellium of planets in 2nd House, in Virgo. I have memories of prior lifetimes in the Taurus zone. One of these lifetimes occurred at the beginning of the Pisces age, Pisces sub-age. Though, I have no planets, or planetary south nodes, in Pisces. Is that because:

a) The beginning of the Pisces age, Pisces sub-age, is reflected in the Virgo planets (just as Virgo geodetic zones include the mutable cross within)? or

*************************************

Yes .......................

************************************

b) A consequence of the Neptune being square the Moon's Nodes is that the North Node in Pisces operates as a de facto South Node, this North Node in Pisces reflecting a past lifetime at the beginning of the Pisces age-Pisces sub-age? or

***************************************

Yes, because that N.Node has already been in operation prior to the current life..the Neptune square to it.

***********************************************

c) Just because the Soul can remember prior lives which are not reflected in the birthchart through geodetic/cosmograms?

*************************************************

Yes, but one must be careful in terms of what any given Soul thinks it can remember. Unless any given Soul has the actual capacity to see into prior lives, for itself and others, then very often such 'memories' get blurred and mixed up with other memories resident within the Soul itself.

*************************************************



God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on Apr 30, 2011, 12:29 AM
Hi Rad and All,

Thanks for sharing and creating this learning.  Wow! 
I think I am getting it.

I do have 2 questions:

So, it appears obvious that if someone has no planets in Virgo, they are not drawing upon any lifetimes in the last millineum relative to the current life purpose. (however the 'Virgo zone' is totally different thing)
Almost positive that the answer is Yes.

So, this is a real trip because it really blows the linear time concepts even farther out of the water.

In my reading with you, Rad, I recall a mention of a lifetime during the Black Plague(late 1300's).  This does not come up with this system. 
Is this because lifetimes can have great impacts on our souls and can be helpful to be made aware of, however do not actually correlate to the current life's evolutionary intentions?

Thanks

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 30, 2011, 09:35 AM
Hi Bradley,

"I do have 2 questions: So, it appears obvious that if someone has no planets in Virgo, they are not drawing upon any lifetimes in the last millineum relative to the current life purpose. (however the 'Virgo zone' is totally different thing) Almost positive that the answer is Yes."

***************************************

No, because a person may also have planets in the 6th House. They could have various Nodes in that House and/ or sign as well.

**********************************

So, this is a real trip because it really blows the linear time concepts even farther out of the water.

In my reading with you, Rad, I recall a mention of a lifetime during the Black Plague(late 1300's).  This does not come up with this system. Is this because lifetimes can have great impacts on our souls and can be helpful to be made aware of, however do not actually correlate to the current life's evolutionary intentions?

******************************************

This system is not meant to be exhaustive or reflective of all our previous lives Bradley. Like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread this system was something that JWG had worked on for over 30 years that he never felt that he 'perfected'. That there were some loose ends, so to speak. This is why he never published a book on it even though he contemplated such a book for a long time. I no longer have your chart in my computer as that computer finally broke down and I lost all of my data so can not comment further on your question. I would need you bdata again in order to do so.

*****************************************

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on Apr 30, 2011, 01:18 PM
Rad,

Thank You.

I've gone back through and am still confused. :'( 

In Ari Moshe's example of his Venus cosmogram, the period of the lifetimes that connect to Venus are all within the Libra sub age within the Aries age.(because Venus forms a cosmogram and is natally in the sign of Libra.

Is it true that becuase Venus is also in the second house, there may be connection to lifetimes in the Taurus age?
Is the answer dependent on if other planets are in the sign of Taurus which form cosmograms?

I do understand how, in Ari Moshe's example, the geographic zones which the Venus cosmogram apply to include all the cardinal zones plus the taurus zone.

If you want to look at my chart again, that would be very kind, though not expected.
January 23rd, 1977   9:08 am  Milwaukee, WI

Thanks,

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 30, 2011, 02:50 PM
Hi Bradley,

"I've gone back through and am still confused. :In Ari Moshe's example of his Venus cosmogram, the period of the lifetimes that connect to Venus are all within the Libra sub age within the Aries age.(because Venus forms a cosmogram and is natally in the sign of Libra. Is it true that becuase Venus is also in the second house, there may be connection to lifetimes in the Taurus age? "

**********************

Yes

*************************

Is the answer dependent on if other planets are in the sign of Taurus which form cosmograms?

***************************

No

******************************

"I do understand how, in Ari Moshe's example, the geographic zones which the Venus cosmogram apply to include all the cardinal zones plus the taurus zone. If you want to look at my chart again, that would be very kind, though not expected. January 23rd, 1977   9:08 am  Milwaukee, WI"

****************************************

As you can see Bradley from your natal chart you have many planets that correlate to the zone in which the plague took place: the natural Aries Zone which of course includes Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. These are the symbols for the life about the plague. With your Moon/Venus in Pisces in natural Aries House these are symbols for the Pisces Age that lead to the Virgo Sub-Age. Your Pallas inconjuncts these two and is in the 6th House: the bridge to moving into the Virgo Sub-Age that is linked with this plague and the Christians blaming themselves for this disease that then lead into the Christian flagellation delusion/ form or repentance. 

****************************************

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on May 01, 2011, 09:47 AM
(this comes from other thread but belongs here)

Quote
Second, the use of the geodetic astrological zones is used in conjunction with the cosmograms. Not just the cosmograms, or just the geodetic zones, but both. What has been presented on this message board about these methods is just the bare bones of them. In the case of chart 2 we can clearly see the direct correlation through the geodetic zones to the lives in that zone. It does not mean that because there is no actual cosmogram linked with the Ages and their sub-ages that that Soul did not have lives at that time in those zones. The actual cosmograms that can result from any birth chart linked with specific times and their respective astrological zones correlates to specific archetypes within the consciousness of the Soul that has been brought forwards into a current life for their own evolutionary needs and reasons.

If there are no cosmograms linked with the geodetic zones of a past life, could the Soul have memories of these past lives not reflected in the cosmograms/geodetic zones?

***********************************

Yes...............

**************************************


I am not sure if I am understanding well how the archetypes of the birhchart reflect the astrological ages/sub-ages of prior lifetimes. As an example to clarify my question: my  birthchart has a stellium of planets in 2nd House, in Virgo. I have memories of prior lifetimes in the Taurus zone. One of these lifetimes occurred at the beginning of the Pisces age, Pisces sub-age. Though, I have no planets, or planetary south nodes, in Pisces. Is that because:

a) The beginning of the Pisces age, Pisces sub-age, is reflected in the Virgo planets (just as Virgo geodetic zones include the mutable cross within)? or

*************************************

Yes .......................

Oh, now I see where you addressed this principle/concept
************************************

b) A consequence of the Neptune being square the Moon's Nodes is that the North Node in Pisces operates as a de facto South Node, this North Node in Pisces reflecting a past lifetime at the beginning of the Pisces age-Pisces sub-age? or

***************************************

Yes, because that N.Node has already been in operation prior to the current life..the Neptune square to it.

***********************************************

c) Just because the Soul can remember prior lives which are not reflected in the birthchart through geodetic/cosmograms?

*************************************************

Yes, but one must be careful in terms of what any given Soul thinks it can remember. Unless any given Soul has the actual capacity to see into prior lives, for itself and others, then very often such 'memories' get blurred and mixed up with other memories resident within the Soul itself.

*************************************************



God Bless, Rad
Thanks Gonzalo and Rad
I know this is not a linear thing.  This piece seems crucial to intuit the overall story.
Basically, as I understand this now, the planet which forms a cosmogram by its sign connects to it's age or sub age - yet, based on the whole understanding of the chart/story, the branches may also refer to the sub -ages with in the other umbrella age/sub age.

What I mean, is, in this post Gonzalo brought in, Virgo planets refer back to the first half of the Pisces Age and in my example, Venus/moon in Pisces connect with the second half of the Pisces Age(the Virgo sub age).
Is this right?

So, it seems the stumbling block would be to limit/freeze the cosmograms without intuiting the overall story.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on May 01, 2011, 09:56 AM
Hi Rad,

So, to check my understanding:

I re-did my Venus cosmogram and used chiron and the asteroids

I came up with(just includes planets):

                    Venus(pisces)
                       l
Mars-------------------------Pallas
Pluto-------------------------Pallas
snVenus----------------------Pallas
Vesta--------------------------Pallas
Chiron------------------------Saturn
snMoon------------------------Uranus

Is this right?

My understanding is that we could apply the branch's sub ages to the both the sub ages within Pisces Age and Virgo Sub-Age.  
So, when we first approach this, we keep 'open' intuitively until we sit with understanding of the whole story of the chart and the cosmograms and geographic zones.

Reprogramming.....

thanks for you time,

Goddess Bless,
Bradley



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on May 01, 2011, 10:14 AM
Hi All,
This is my third post here this morning(questions/confirmations for Rad above two)

I appreciated Ari Moshe's sharing the function on solar fire.  Gosh, more and more I consider getting Solar fire for Mac; especially seeing astro.com does not include south nodes - not even sn of moon natally.

Well, in response to 'quicker'/'easier' ways to create cosmograms for those without software:

If you are still using astro.com, under extended chart selection, I did natal chart, included aestroids desired and under "Chart Drawing Style"  I selected  "Ebertin Style(with midpoints)"

Then, I printed this at 90% - this is the 90 degree dial. 
Next, I had the cosmo dial saved in a pages/word file and enlarged the size(could be done on photocopier) to fit just inside the 90 degree dial.

So, now I could begin constructing cosmograms in a minute. 
Also, I found helpful to locate the exact center of the cosmo dial and encircled using a compass to make the exact cut desired.
Now that I have my 'perfect cosmo-dial', I'll laminate this and carry it around everywhere I go(just kidding...maybe)

Hope that helps someone.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Taf on May 03, 2011, 05:20 PM
The next step in our example cosmogram is to place the signs on it. So since Mars in Aries is at the top of our cosmogram we mark that as Aries at the top. Then referring the the Ages and their sub-ages we go the Aries age and note the 90 year segment in time for that Mars. Then we look for the Libra 90 year segment within that Age because Jupiter is in Libra at part of the cosmogram. Then we note the 90 year segment for Gemini because Venus is in Gemini as part of that cosmogram. And then Capricorn because Saturn is in Capricorn as part of the cosmogram.

"I've gone back through and am still confused. In Ari Moshe's example of his Venus cosmogram, the period of the lifetimes that connect to Venus are all within the Libra sub age within the Aries age.(because Venus forms a cosmogram and is natally in the sign of Libra. Is it true that becuase Venus is also in the second house, there may be connection to lifetimes in the Taurus age? "

**********************

Yes

*************************

(this comes from other thread but belongs here)

Thanks Gonzalo and Rad
I know this is not a linear thing.  This piece seems crucial to intuit the overall story.
Basically, as I understand this now, the planet which forms a cosmogram by its sign connects to it's age or sub age - yet, based on the whole understanding of the chart/story, the branches may also refer to the sub -ages with in the other umbrella age/sub age.

What I mean, is, in this post Gonzalo brought in, Virgo planets refer back to the first half of the Pisces Age and in my example, Venus/moon in Pisces connect with the second half of the Pisces Age(the Virgo sub age).
Is this right?

So, it seems the stumbling block would be to limit/freeze the cosmograms without intuiting the overall story.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Hi Rad,

So does this mean that if we have a Mars in Aries cosmogram, where Mars is in the natal 2nd House, the top of our cosmogram should actually look like this:

     Mars (Aries Age: 2,260 - 2,170BC / Libra Sub-Age: 640 - 550BC / Taurus Age: 3,430 - 3,340BC / Scorpio Sub-Age: 2,890 - 2,800BC)


where all four time periods are possibilities of locating the prior lifetime relative to Mars:  The Aries Age possibility because of the sign that Mars is in.  The Libra Sub-Age possibility is because of the natural opposition to the Aries Age.  The Taurus Age possibility is because of the second House natal placement of Mars.  The Scorpio Sub-Age possibility is because of the natural opposition to the Taurus Age?

And would the 90-yr segments still be located by the sign Aries (because of the sign Mars is in), whether we are searching the Aries Age, Libra Sub-Age, Taurus Age, or Scorpio Sub-Age?

Further:

Would all the other planets connected to the Mars cosmogram...our original example had Venus in Gemini, Jupiter in Libra, Saturn in Aquarius...also correlate not only to the Aries Age, but to the Libra Sub-Age, and their respective natal House Ages and Sub-Ages?  For instance, Venus in Gemini can correlate to the Aries Age/Gemini 90-yr segment, Libra Sub-Age/Gemini 90-yr segment, Cancer Age (assuming it is in the natal 4th House)/Gemini 90-yr segment, and the Capricorn Sub-Age/Gemini 90-yr segment?

Blessings,
taf


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on May 04, 2011, 08:23 AM
Hi taf,

No, it doesn't mean this at all, and is the wrong way to understand the cosmograms. All the principles that have been presented in this thread correlate to the paradigm of the cosmograms themselves. And, as I have said, they are not meant to symbolized the totality of all possible prior lives of any given Soul. There are other ways to see and understand prior lifetimes in the birth chart independent of cosmograms. This is why I also presented the astrological geodetic zones with the natural crosses within them that can have planets within them that are not part of any given birth charts cosmograms. So a person could have Mars in the 2nd House, for example, and that Mars in not part of any cosmogram yet it would refer to the Taurus geodetic zone as places on Earth the the Soul has had lives before.

I understand your confusion now as I had missed this last post by Bradley: "I know this is not a linear thing.  This piece seems crucial to intuit the overall story. Basically, as I understand this now, the planet which forms a cosmogram by its sign connects to it's age or sub age - yet, based on the whole understanding of the chart/story, the branches may also refer to the sub -ages with in the other umbrella age/sub age. What I mean, is, in this post Gonzalo brought in, Virgo planets refer back to the first half of the Pisces Age and in my example, Venus/moon in Pisces connect with the second half of the Pisces Age(the Virgo sub age). Is this right? "

No, this not right. Bradley sent me his birth data because of a lifetime I had mentioned to him that took place during the Great Plague in the mid 1300's. And when he did his cosmograms he could not see this time indicated. First, as I have said before, and now again, the cosmograms do not reflect the totality of all prior lifetimes, or is it the only paradigm that can be used to see and understand the prior lifetimes of any given Soul. So despite the fact that Bradley could not come up with a cosmogram for that time/ life/place the fact is that in his birth chart he had all kinds of planets that correlated to the Aries geodetic zone. Among them were his Pisces Moon/Jupiter conjunction in his natural Aries house that are inconjunct his Pallas in his 6th House. So you can see in this the astrological geodetic zone now combined with the Pisces Age where the tie in to the Virgo Sub-Age is symbolized by the inconjunct by his Pallas in the 6th House .... i.e. natural Virgo House ... back to his Moon and Jupiter.

This example demonstrates, taf, that there are other ways to understand and see the prior lifetimes of any given Soul independent of the cosmograms themselves. Birth charts have all kinds of dimensions within them that can be seen when various 'lenses' are used to do so.

God Bless, Rad



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on May 29, 2011, 04:56 PM
Hi Rad,

Just wondering if it is possible that a Cosmogram can be drawn up for a Composite Chart?  I ask this in regards to the Composite of John and Yoko which we are working on at the moment.  It would be very revealing to see where and when they have been together in the past.  Is this possible?

Thanks.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on May 30, 2011, 06:22 AM
Hi Linda,

 Wolf never talked about or taught this at all. It certainly seems to me that this is possible is the composite chart is used. Yet this would also seem limited in the sense that the composite chart would not represent or symbolize all the possible prior life connections/ places between two people only because there are other ways to correlate the prior life locations/ and times of any given Soul.

 God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Linda on May 30, 2011, 03:45 PM
Thanks Rad.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on May 31, 2011, 08:12 AM
Hi Jason,

Yes................

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on May 31, 2011, 09:15 AM
Hi Rad,

THANK YOU so much for your willingness and time to look at these.

These are three past life memories carried by the same person whose chart I posted on the skipped steps thread.  They were realized by him in this lifetime a few years ago.  I am attaching the chart for reference.  I have included a short synopsis of each memory as described by him.  I also asked what he thought the key imprint left on his Soul was, and that is here plus the cosmogram I found and my reasoning about it.

The correlations appear strong to me, but I wanted to get your feedback and any confirmation or corrections.  My question is: am I using these correctly (I mean the cosmograms) and is my EA reasoning sound?  

Memory A

Memory: West Coast Native American healer.  He argues with an arrogant and self-righteous younger Native American man, about how to deal with the new presence of Europeans; argument becomes heated and the younger man shoots him in the throat with a gun obtained from Europeans.

What Soul “Learned”:  Have to express myself the right way and be very careful.  

Cosmogram: Given that this is relatively recent, I looked at the cosmogram of his only Virgo planet, Mercury.  I found this cosmogram:

      Mercury
                (Vir/5th)
                |      
Chiron ---------------------------------Saturn   
(Tau/ 2nd)          (Lib/6th)


The Chiron lifetime represented in this cosmogram would have taken place in the range 1700-1790 (Taurus subperiod of Virgo Sub-Age), and one of the possible geodetic zones is the west coast of the United States (fixed cross).  Indeed, at this time initial explorations by Europeans of the Pacific Northwest were underway from the sea and the Northwest tribes had encountered Europeans by then.  The Chiron archetype is congruent with his having been a healer.  The other two dominant forces in this memory are also well-represented in the cosmogram: a clever (got hold of a gun), arrogant, self-righteous youth/”brother” (Mercury, Virgo, 5th house, square Neptune in 9th); and an oppressive power coming in the name of peace but really all about extremes, power, and its Judeo-Christian standards (Saturn, Libra, 6th house, conjunct Pluto) – to which the healer was “opposed” as represented in the cosmogram.  Chiron in Taurus in the 2nd is opposite Uranus in the 8th in Sagittarius, supporting a sudden, violent, unusual (guns were new to these people – Uranus) death, from someone who thinks they know the “Truth” impulsively shooting from the hip (Sagittarius).  The location of the wound is the throat (Chiron in Taurus), which also corresponds to the 5th chakra ruled by Mercury, which is the lead planet in the cosmogram that “carries” this lifetime.  And what was “learned” is clearly also carried by his Mercury in this lifetime: “I have to express myself the right way and be very careful” (Virgo, 5th house).    

Memory B
 
Memory: Priestess in some kind of temple.  Time period unknown, but she is unusually empowered for a woman in patriarchal time.  Close to a just ruler/leader, she gets a clear intuition that he will be killed, tries to tell him, he doesn’t listen to her, and one of his own military leaders – a “captain of the guard” sort whom she knew would be the one – kills him.  Realizing she will no longer be safe, she and her followers immediately travel away.

What Soul Learned:  “My understanding will not be taken seriously so I just need to shut down and take control.”

Cosmogram: I looked at the Neptune lifetimes in the chart’s cosmograms, given the spirituality of the lifetime and also the location of Neptune conjunct to Juno in the natal chart, a possible indication of a woman empowered by her connection to a powerful man.  I found this one:

                  Saturn
                (Lib/6th)
                          |      
Mars -----------------------------------Neptune   
(Sco/7th)          (Sag/9th)

The Neptune lifetime in this time period would have taken place in the range of 1000-910BC (Sagittarius subperiod of Libra Sub-Age), and the possible geodetic zones (coordinated with time range) would have included Olmec/Maya in Central America, Vedic/Aryan in India and Caucasus, and West Africa emerging Iron Empires (when these were suggested as possibilities, Olmec/Maya is most resonant for this person, strong connections in this life with these cultures; Quetzlcoatl is an active guide in this lifetime).  Saturn in Libra in the 6th seems to refer to a just and dutiful leader, and also to a stratified, role-based social structure that he may represent (e.g. caste system if India).  Mars in Scorpio speaks clearly of an underhanded warrior, who kills the leader.  In the natal chart, Neptune is in the 9th in Sagittarius, suggesting a spiritual lifetime dedicated to the Truth; it is also opposite to the asteroid Cassandra in Gemini 3rd, and the two are both in a T-square with Mercury – so trying to communicate about evil is frustrated.  The lifetime message – the futility of spiritual authority, leading to the need to shut down and take control – corresponds strongly to Saturn, the “carrier” of this lifetime.  Saturn is also the SN ruler in this chart, as well as one of the causative factors of the chart’s skipped steps – we can see how this lifetime would begin to encourage this person to begin to want to have a male body again and to want to follow the chart’s non-resolution node, the SN in Capricorn 9th conjunct Resolution Lilith – somehow wanting to resolve this wound with patriarchy by taking back power.

Memory C

Memory: In Egypt, a child who is taken away or given by his parents to a dark religious order because of their belief that he has psychic gifts.  

What “Soul Learned”: Psychic capacities are dangerous and will expose me to harmful predation; they must be suppressed.

Cosmogram:  I looked for cosmograms involving the Moon (since this was a child) and found this one:

                             Pallas
                (Lib/6th)
                               |      
Moon ------------------------------------Pluto    
(Lib/6th)                              (Lib/6th)

The Moon lifetime in this cosmogram would have taken place in the range of 1180 to 1090 BC (Libra subperiod of Libra Sub-Age) and Egypt is a potential location (cardinal zones and Virgo zone eligible).  This would be around the time of the split of Upper and Lower Egypt, a general period of decline and a lot of change.  Pluto/Moon relates to the themes of abduction of a child by relatively dark and powerful authorities (Pluto also conjunct Saturn and Lucifer in natal chart), and Pallas brings in psychic capacities.  The experience is “carried” forward to the present lifetime through Pallas as it occurs in the Pallas cosmogram – Pallas being in the 6th house in Libra conjunct Saturn, shutting down to be more appropriate, and is also conjunct Pluto.  In this current lifetime (now), this person has had a fear of psychic opening because of the potential of the personality (Moon) to be highjacked (“abducted”) by astral and other darker forces (Pluto).  As I see it, the cosmogram also strongly suggests other lifetimes around the same time in Egypt in which this Soul played the other roles including the Pluto role.      
      
Rad, I feel so much gratitude and excitement for this method.  I really feel it is furthering my work.  God bless you and JWG for all you have done for us and share with us here.  

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on May 31, 2011, 09:36 AM
Hi Jason,

It is very wonderful that you are focusing on the cosmograms in the ways that you are, and applying them to your work in EA in the way that you are. It was always the intention by Wolf that someone, or others, would take his work on these cosmograms and geodetic equivalents and do the type of research and work on them in the way that you are doing. His greatest desire was to plant the seeds of EA in the ways that he did over his lengthy work life so that others would continue to take these seeds and expand on them in their own ways in such a way that when his physical form was no longer present that these seeds of EA would then continue to expand, and blow into the winds of the future. 

And, yes, all that you have shared and presented in the cosmograms relative to your partner's memories are correct, and correlate exactly in the ways that you have realized. The reasons is correct and very, very sound.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Gonzalo on May 31, 2011, 09:00 PM
Hi Jason

What you posted about the cosmograms is fascinating to me. Thank you so much for sharing your findings.

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Jun 01, 2011, 08:07 AM
Hi Rad,
 
Thank you so much for the confirmations on my work and your beautiful words about the seeding and spreading of EA.  I am so grateful for these teachings and so happy to be a part of their furtherance and dissemination.  Being able to participate here is a gift that my words can't convey the value of.  Thank you and God bless you, all of you who make this possible. 

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on Jun 19, 2011, 11:10 PM
Hi Rad,

I have a related question:

I have a chart with Mars Pluto conjunction New(3 degrees)  Happens to be Virgo 7th.

The cosmogram for the Mars Pluto - this would correlate to other lifetimes which are linked to this one in that there were key experiences in those lives which catalyzed/led into the soul's desire to begin this new cycle of growth and evolution through relationships?

Is that right?

Thanks,
Goddess Bless

Bradley


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Jun 20, 2011, 08:04 AM
Hi Bradley,

Yes, and if this is the same chart you are asking about in the other thread, the skipped steps with the Lunar Nodes squaring the Mars/Pluto in this new phase, it would then mean that those skipped steps with these key experiences relative to others must be recovered in order for the new evolutionary impulse of the Soul to occur.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on Jun 21, 2011, 01:23 AM
Thanks Rad,

i think I'm getting this.
For others reading this, I just want to state that normally we do not include the north node in cosmograms, however, it is the same point as the south node in the cosmo-dial.
So, when creating specific cosmogram for the south node in a skipped step signature, that cosmogram will symbolize both the north and south nodes being active in those lifetimes - is that right?

As I understand what you are saying here Rad, that the cosmogram for a new phase mars pluto will be linked to lifetimes in which key turning points in the soul's journey occurred which have catalyzed the desire to jump into the next larger cycle of evolutionary intention before resolving the issues pertaining to the south node. 
So, even if the south node is not involved in the cosmogram(of the mars/pluto conjunction new) in this particular instance, the mars pluto cosmogram(new conjunction) still ties to lives which involved issues that the soul chose to not resolve, thus are tied to the south node in this way.  Do I understand this?

Do I need to be clearer?

Thank you
Goddess Bless,
Bradley



Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Jun 21, 2011, 07:00 AM
Hi Bradley,

A new phase Mars/Pluto conjunction correlates, of itself, to a brand new cycle of evolutionary progression for the Soul. That relative newness can correlate to this being the very first life in which that new evolutionary progression is occurring, or within the most recent past lives of the Soul. When that Pluto/Mars new phase conjunction is squaring the Nodal Axis this means that even though the Soul is desiring to begin the new evolutionary cycle of development that it can not proceed until the skipped steps OF THE PRIOR EVOLUTIONARY CYCLE are resolved. The nature of those skipped steps are symbolized by the North and South Nodes by house and sign placement, as well as the location of their planetary rulers by their own house and sign placements. And this then includes the aspects that these planetary rulers of the Nodal Axis are making to other planets.

Whether the Pluto/Mars new phase conjunction is involved with the Nodal Axis within it's own cosmogram, or not, is not relevant to this evolutionary fact of the skipped steps as defined above. And that is because, again, those skipped steps are linked to the prior evolutionary cycle, not the new one symbolized by the fact that the Mars and Pluto are in a new phase condition. And, again, remember cosmograms do not symbolize the totality of all the prior lifetimes that apply to the Soul's current life. There are many lenses within the birth chart to understand and see that totality.

It appears that you are trying to fit or resolve the issue of skipped steps linked with the Nodal Axis and the new phase Pluto/Mars through the cosmogram paradigm of itself, by itself. Thus, the basis of your questions and statements. It is not like that at all Bradley because it can not, or is not, limited to the specific paradigm of the cosmograms.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Bradley J on Jun 21, 2011, 01:56 PM
Hi Rad,

Got it, thank you.

Yeah, basically in the reading I simply asked and learned about issues related to the nodes.
then we repeatedly applied the 'issues' that came up symbolic of the sn and it's ruler and how to consistently apply these to the north node(resolution node in this case) and it's ruler
It was very enlightening and helpful.
Love it! EA is such a beautiful thing.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Jul 26, 2011, 01:29 AM
Hi Jason, first of all I love your questions here, I'm really learning a lot from your contribution.

I checked those cosmograms and, assuming my cosmogram capacities are accurate, I believe both of the cosmograms you posted use over a 3 degree orb. Either your use of orbs is too wide or I am still unclear about how to do this!


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Jul 26, 2011, 07:29 AM
Hi Ari,

I double-checked both of them and found they are both within the 2-degree orb suggested by Rad.  I'm not sure why we are getting different results.  

For example on Yoko's cosmodial:

Pluto =  21 27
Pallas = 40 26
Mars = 75 07

The distance of Pluto to Mars = 36 20
The distance of Pallas to Mars = 34 41

The difference of these numbers is 1 39.

Does that make sense?

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Jul 26, 2011, 10:50 AM
Hi Jason,

Yes, all is correct.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Jul 26, 2011, 12:26 PM
Yes Jason, you are right, the orb was less than 2 degrees.

With solar fire I programmed a 2 degree orb, however as is shown in this image it did not pick the Pluto Pallas connection.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/yokoonomarscosmogram.jpg)

Do you or anyone have some insight on this? It just seems to me that solar fire isn't picking up on all the planets that fall within the selected orb of 2 degrees.
With love,
am


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Jul 27, 2011, 10:11 AM
Hi Ari,

I think the issue is that the word orb sometimes is used to mean the furthest distance out from a planet in either direction that an aspect can apply (e.g. in EA, 10 degrees for a conjunction); and sometimes to mean the entire range in which the aspect can apply on both sides of the planet (e.g. in EA, 20 degrees for a conjunction, 10 degrees on each side).

So in Solar Fire, using the dial, I find setting the orb at 4 works to catch all the branches of a 2-degree orb cosmogram.  See dial below for Yoko.

However, to get the same information from the midpoint trees report, I use the setting of 45-degree modulus and 1-degree orb.  I do not know the mathematics of why this particular report works.  However, none of the various 90-degree modulus midpoint reports worked at any orb -- they were either too restrictive or caught all kinds of other stuff that was not relevant.  So I just went through the midpoint tree options until I found the one that correlates to the dial, since that is the basis for this practice, and this one does, every time.  I have also found that it gives what feels like a reasonable number of branches for most cosmograms -- of course in the below, Yoko's Mars has more than most, but as we know this system isn't a 1:1 correlation to lifetimes, the cosmogram can also apply to either of both the Virgo Age and the Virgo Sub-Age of the Pisces Age, and also in this particular case we know that the last 1000 years (Virgo sub-Age) were very bloody ones for the Soul of Yoko, so it makes sense that there would have been multiple incarnations.

Hope that is helpful.

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: ari moshe on Jul 28, 2011, 04:00 PM
Yes, that was very helpful Jason. This answers a confusion i've had for some time now! With love,
am


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Sep 05, 2011, 03:31 PM
Hi Rad,

I am finally able to go through this thread and am finding that I have some things I'm not quite understanding even after having read the answers to what others have asked.  I am wondering if it would be possible to ask those questions as they come up....

Thank you,
Ellen


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Sep 06, 2011, 06:56 AM
Hi Ellen,

You can ask the questions you may have. On the other hand everything has already been explained already in this thread.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Sep 06, 2011, 09:28 AM
Thanks, Rad.  I'll keep going and see if my questions get cleared up.  Mostly just wanting to confirm that I've understood correctly.  I seem not to be picking up on it the way that the others who participated seemed to so I am questioning my understanding.  Also, I'm not really experiencing any great insight about my own chart/past lives/etc with the information that's come from this method, so again, questioning my understanding...

Thank you a million for teaching it, though...

Love,
Ellen


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Heidi on Mar 09, 2012, 03:35 PM
Wow! I finally took a leap last night and went through this thread and feel I have a good grasp on it. Thanks Rad and all participants for taking the time to create such a wonderful learning tool here on the forum.  :)

I would like to clarify one point which came up many times during the thread, which is the issue of using the natural cross on the geodetic map. In my chart for example, I have no planets in Virgo or the 6th house, (but I do have Chiron in the 6th). Since the Virgo sub-age is the most recent and contains the last millennium, I was most curious about this time.

My slight confusion still, is since I have Neptune/Mars/Venus is Sag/Pisces/Gemini respectively, and all three planets have their own cosmograms, can I look at these cosmograms within the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD (because of the mutable cross with Virgo)?

Or, I'm wondering if the confusion around this issue is due to mixing up the actual geodetic zones on the map, with the ages. So, in my above example the individual Neptune/Mars/Venus cosmograms would correlate to all four mutable zones, but not the mutable ages?

Evidently, I do have Chiron (in the 6th) which has it's own cosmogram. Mars and Venus are contained in this cosmogram which would link these lives to the Virgo sub-age anyhow.. but clarification on the above would really help.  

On a technical note, I'm sure this got figured out but thought I would mention a solar fire shortcut:

- Open up the chart and on the right side will be a column with various options.
- Above the "Redraw" button change the option from "wheel" to "dial"
- Click on the "Pages" button (third from the bottom on right hand side)
- You will then see a list of options, the fourth down is + Cosmobiology
- Click on the + next to Cosmobiology and there are three more options
- Click on the first option: Modulus Tree and Modulus Sort Strip

You then get a real cool graphic with the dial, degree locations and the cosmograms (midpoint trees), all with a 2 degree orb. Can save a lot of time and effort!

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 10, 2012, 08:53 AM
Hi Heidi,

My slight confusion still, is since I have Neptune/Mars/Venus is Sag/Pisces/Gemini respectively, and all three planets have their own cosmograms, can I look at these cosmograms within the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD (because of the mutable cross with Virgo)?

************

No.

****************

Or, I'm wondering if the confusion around this issue is due to mixing up the actual geodetic zones on the map, with the ages. So, in my above example the individual Neptune/Mars/Venus cosmograms would correlate to all four mutable zones, but not the mutable ages?

*******************

That's right.

**********

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Heidi on Mar 10, 2012, 01:27 PM
Thanks Rad.

So I understand that when correlating the ages to a cosmogram, we always use the sign that the actual planet is in. Looking at my cosmogram in which my Chiron in Aries/6th has the lead, then this would only correlate to the Aries age. Therefore, since I have no planets in Virgo, I cannot correlate any of my past lives though the geodetic/comsmogram system to the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD.

I notice you addressed this in the below quote to Bradley:

Quote
As you can see Bradley from your natal chart you have many planets that correlate to the zone in which the plague took place: the natural Aries Zone which of course includes Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. These are the symbols for the life about the plague. With your Moon/Venus in Pisces in natural Aries House these are symbols for the Pisces Age that lead to the Virgo Sub-Age. Your Pallas inconjuncts these two and is in the 6th House: the bridge to moving into the Virgo Sub-Age that is linked with this plague and the Christians blaming themselves for this disease that then lead into the Christian flagellation delusion/ form or repentance.
 

Again, if I'm understanding correctly, I will be able to link past lives to the Virgo sub-age through my 6th house Chiron, and the planets it is aspecting (though of course not using the cosmogram paradigm). So in reference to the above quote, am I correct in understanding that the totality of the Pisces age contains the Virgo sub-age (when using the other system of determining past lives); and any planets in Pisces/12th house will link to these past lives that include the Virgo sub-age?

And one last thought to clear up a loose end; if the answer to the above is yes, would looking at Neptune correlate to the Pisces age, and Mars to the Aries age, etc?

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Mar 11, 2012, 07:59 AM
Hi Heidi,

Thanks Rad.

So I understand that when correlating the ages to a cosmogram, we always use the sign that the actual planet is in. Looking at my cosmogram in which my Chiron in Aries/6th has the lead, then this would only correlate to the Aries age. Therefore, since I have no planets in Virgo, I cannot correlate any of my past lives though the geodetic/comsmogram system to the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD.

***********

That's right.

************

I notice you addressed this in the below quote to Bradley:

Quote
As you can see Bradley from your natal chart you have many planets that correlate to the zone in which the plague took place: the natural Aries Zone which of course includes Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. These are the symbols for the life about the plague. With your Moon/Venus in Pisces in natural Aries House these are symbols for the Pisces Age that lead to the Virgo Sub-Age. Your Pallas inconjuncts these two and is in the 6th House: the bridge to moving into the Virgo Sub-Age that is linked with this plague and the Christians blaming themselves for this disease that then lead into the Christian flagellation delusion/ form or repentance.
 

Again, if I'm understanding correctly, I will be able to link past lives to the Virgo sub-age through my 6th house Chiron, and the planets it is aspecting (though of course not using the cosmogram paradigm). So in reference to the above quote, am I correct in understanding that the totality of the Pisces age contains the Virgo sub-age (when using the other system of determining past lives); and any planets in Pisces/12th house will link to these past lives that include the Virgo sub-age?

***************

Yes

****************

And one last thought to clear up a loose end; if the answer to the above is yes, would looking at Neptune correlate to the Pisces age, and Mars to the Aries age, etc?

*****************

Yes, but only as archetypes.

****************

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Heidi on Mar 11, 2012, 01:25 PM
Thanks Rad.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Wendy on Apr 21, 2012, 07:53 PM
Hi Rad,

WOW--I have finally had the luxury of beginning to create my natal cosmograms, and I am amazed!  

I started with the SN of Venus, because it is at 0 Libra.  This cosmogram has so many planetary links, I was stunned, as my natal Venus aspects nine planets, plus the nodes of the Moon and has just as many links or branches.  So I wanted to check to be sure I am seeing this correctly.  

First, for the SN Venus in Libra 0 degrees, there are three correlating degree points which relate to it, so I have three lines/branches across the 0/45 degree line of the cosmogram at varying intervals.  Is this possible?  If so, would I look to the subage of Aries, which is Libra 1180-100BC? Then would I look at Libra or Aries on the Geodetic Map?

Also, when I create a cosmogram for natal Pluto 15 in mutable, should I put the dial, beginning with zero, on Pluto, just like I did with 0 Libra to determine which planets correlate around the dial for it's cosmogram?

Thanks a million,
Wendy

FYI--I have been having so many insights since reading everything about masochism, that I feel I can move forward in a much fuller way and I thought about JWG telling me I was from Sirius and a bus pulled out in front of me with the words EXPRESS and StarTrans on the back of the bus! :)


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Wendy on Apr 21, 2012, 08:31 PM
Hi Rad,

Hi Rad

Quote
Ari asked:
2."I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?"

**********************************
Rad answered:
Yes but it would also correlate to the Aries zone as well because of the natural cross that exists within it: Libra, Cancer, Capricorn within the Aries Zone.

So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra, Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you.
Ari Moshe

Does this mean we look to the traditional house of the planetary cosmogram we are working with, as well as the sign the planet is actually in, i.e., Mars in Libra in 5th house--so the cardinal geodetic lines apply as well Leo?

Thanks,
Wendy


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 22, 2012, 07:52 AM
Hi Rad,

WOW--I have finally had the luxury of beginning to create my natal cosmograms, and I am amazed!  

I started with the SN of Venus, because it is at 0 Libra.  This cosmogram has so many planetary links, I was stunned, as my natal Venus aspects nine planets, plus the nodes of the Moon and has just as many links or branches.  So I wanted to check to be sure I am seeing this correctly.  

First, for the SN Venus in Libra 0 degrees, there are three correlating degree points which relate to it, so I have three lines/branches across the 0/45 degree line of the cosmogram at varying intervals.  Is this possible?  If so, would I look to the subage of Aries, which is Libra 1180-100BC? Then would I look at Libra or Aries on the Geodetic Map?

***********

Yes

**************

Also, when I create a cosmogram for natal Pluto 15 in mutable, should I put the dial, beginning with zero, on Pluto, just like I did with 0 Libra to determine which planets correlate around the dial for it's cosmogram ?

*****************

Yes ......

**********

Thanks a million,
Wendy

FYI--I have been having so many insights since reading everything about masochism, that I feel I can move forward in a much fuller way and I thought about JWG telling me I was from Sirius and a bus pulled out in front of me with the words EXPRESS and StarTrans on the back of the bus! :)

************

Thanks for sharing that ! God/ess does have It's ways ............


God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 22, 2012, 08:09 AM
Hi Wendy,

Hi Rad

Quote
Ari asked:
2."I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?"

**********************************
Rad answered:
Yes but it would also correlate to the Aries zone as well because of the natural cross that exists within it: Libra, Cancer, Capricorn within the Aries Zone.

So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra, Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you.
Ari Moshe

Does this mean we look to the traditional house of the planetary cosmogram we are working with, as well as the sign the planet is actually in, i.e., Mars in Libra in 5th house--so the cardinal geodetic lines apply as well Leo?

************

If you mean by the fact of Mars being in the 5th House that this then correlates with the Leo/Aquarius Age and Sub-age and then linking the geodetics zones, Maris in Libra, to that then the answer is yes.

***************

Thanks,
Wendy
[/quote]

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Jun 03, 2012, 01:59 AM
Hi Rad,

I did up the cosmograms for Barack Obama and was wondering if I could post to see if I got it right.  Someone had mentioned that cutting down the dial doesn't work but I haven't found a way to work with it without cutting it down.  So I'd like to see if the dial I'm working with actually works...  (From what I can tell when I use it it seems to line up ok, but this kind of thing can drive me batty so I don't know for sure....)

If too much I understand.  Just wanted to ask to see if it was an option.

Thanks so much,
Elen

PS What I would post is the table with planets in their appropriate crosses and then the info from the cosmograms put into the table.  There won't be a map beneath the table, but should be clear....


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Jun 03, 2012, 07:34 AM
Hi Elen,

I just don't have the time to do that Elen. The procedure is very straight forwards.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: jasonholley on Jun 03, 2012, 09:22 AM
Hi Elen,

Here is a copy of Barack Obama's cosmograms that I ran off from Solarfire which you can use to check your work on your own -- hope that may be helpful.  Single planets encountered in these lists are equivalent to planets we would place at the bottom of our cosmograms. 

God bless,
Jason


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Jun 03, 2012, 09:36 AM
I understand, Rad.

And thank you, Jason.  Yes, helpful to me.


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Jun 03, 2012, 09:10 PM
Jason,

That helped me a ton!  Thank you!  There were some I missed and I was able to understand why.  But also, there are some that SF generates that no matter how I looked at it didn't make sense from the perspective of the dial.  Not sure why.  Will just keep paying attention.......

Peace,
Elen


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rose Marcus on Nov 07, 2012, 10:48 PM
Greetings all,
For Solar Fire users,
To get the cosmograms in Trees, put your chart up, go to "Reports", when that comes up, you'll see two tabs to the upper left. One says "Reports", the other "Tabulations". Click on "Tabulations", find "Midpoint Trees" and you'll have it. (Use "Modulus" at 45'00).
(If you don't get the trees, perhaps your version of Solar Fire is an older one.)

Blessings
Rose


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Apr 29, 2014, 07:37 PM
Hello,

I am wondering if it would be possible for me to post a question here.  I have spent the last couple of years doing some very deep healing work and am finally surfacing and able to get back to work and study, this time with a sense of purpose and direction.  I have been working through this thread, having read through it several times and worked through my own and a friend's chart (and will continue to work through other charts).  I would like to incorporate geodetics in my basic preparation for chart analyses for clients and I would really like to feel confident that I am getting this right.  I would also like to be sure I'm getting it right as I feel it could be a very useful/helpful tool with regard to finding homeopathic remedies (I am currently learning homeopathy.)  However, I keep coming up against the same issue, which I was also struggling with when I initially went through this thread.  I am aware that your time is precious, Rad and that this is an old thread, but it feels important to me to be sure I am doing this correctly.  I also think my question might be clarifying for others who might read through this thread.

I understand if you feel it is not something you can do, Rad, and I thank you for your willingness to read this post.  I do hope, of course, that it might be possible to get this question/confusion cleared up.

Thank you so much,
Ellen


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on Apr 30, 2014, 07:48 AM
Hi Ellen,

Go ahead.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on Apr 30, 2014, 11:56 AM
Hi Rad,

Thank you SO much.

First, I am sorry for the length of this question/post, but I wanted to be sure I am conveying where my confusion is and I don't know how to do that without first providing context.  That, as an implied question, along with examples, is what follows:

First, here are the instructions that I am using to construct my cosmograms (from page 5 of this thread):

You will also notice that the arrow at 0 degrees of the cosmo dial is pointed at that Mars. On either side of the 0 degrees you will notice increments of 5 degrees each on either side of that 0 degree marker. And the opposite end of the 0 degrees is the 45 degree marker. To develop your personal cosmogram you will want to note the planets that connect together at the various five degree segments on either side of the 0 degree marker. So in our example cosmogram you will notice that Jupiter is at the 15 degree marker on the left side of the 0 degree marker, and that Venus is also at the 15 degree marker on the right side of the 0 degree marker that is always the reference point  in developing these cosmograms.


Here is how I am understanding the instructions:

1) I look specifically and strictly at 5 degree increments.  
2) Any planets with a 2 degree orb of those 5 degree increments is considered.  
3) If there is a planet (or point) in the corresponding 5 degree increment on the other side, within a 2 degree orb OF THE FOCUS PLANET, then there is a cosmogram.  
4) If there is no planet on the other side, within a 2 degree increment of the 5 degree marker, then there is no cosmogram.

Examples:
      
Mars at 0°
Pluto at 5°
Mercury at 40°   
Cosmogram? Yes   

Mars at 0°
Pluto at 7°
Mercury at 42°   
Cosmogram? Yes   

Mars at 0°
Pluto at 3°
Mercury at 38°   
Cosmogram? Yes

Mars at 0°
Pluto at 7°
Mercury at 38°   
Cosmogram? Yes   

Mars at 0°
Pluto at 3°
Mercury at 42°   
Cosmogram? Yes   

Mars at 0°
Pluto at 8°
Mercury at
40°, 42° or 38°   
Cosmogram? No
             
Mars at 0°
Pluto at 2°
Mercury at
40°, 42° or 38°   
Cosmogram? No
            
Mars at 0°
Pluto at
5°, 7° or 3°
Mercury at 37°   
Cosmogram? No
            
Mars at 0°
Pluto at
5°, 7° or 3°
Mercury at 43°   
Cosmogram? No

IF the above is correct, it means that even if Pluto and Mercury form a midpoint with Mars but they are out of orb of the 5° marker, they do not form a cosmogram with Mars.  
         


As one final clarifier (to check my understanding), if Mars were at 2 degrees instead of 0 degrees, then the 5 degree increments being used to determine what planets/points create a cosmogram with Mars would then be 7 degrees (instead of 5), 12 degrees, 19 degrees, etc and in the other direction, 42 degrees, 38 degrees, 33 degrees, etc, with a 2 degree orb being considered from these markers.  

From my understanding of these instructions, I come up with this cosmogram for Mars in my chart (I include the NN because I have a skipped step signature in my chart):

        Mars
          |
Mercury – Jupiter/NN/SN
          |
Chiron/Uranus – Saturn

Solar Fire, however, shows this to be the Midpoint Tree for Mars (using 45 degree modulus and 1 degree orb as parameters):

     Mars
       |
Moon – Pluto
       |
Saturn – Pluto

(It also includes a branch involving the MC and ASC but I understand these to be points specifically associated with the current life and thus not to be included in a cosmogram).


As you can see, my cosmogram and SF's Midpoint Tree are not even close.  And it does not seem to matter how I set the parameters, the 2 never resemble one another.  I CAN see how SF comes up with its Midpoint Tree and it seems that the reason there is such a significant difference is that SF is doing a straight up Midpoint analysis irrespective of 5 degree increments whereas I am using the 5 degree increments specifically and exclusively.  That seems to mean that different planets are included/excluded accordingly.
   
For reference, here are the placements of my natal planets:
Pluto      14° 12’  Virgo           rx
Uranus    10° 00’  Virgo           rx
SN         11° 12’  Capricorn   rx
NN         11° 12’  Cancer   rx
Jupiter    10° 20’   Aries   
Saturn    19° 56’   Aquarius   
Moon     19° 01’   Taurus   
Mars      16° 41’   Capricorn   
Mercury  20° 41’  Capricorn   rx
Chiron     10° 49  Pisces

So, my question is, are we just looking for midpoints?
Or are we looking specifically and only at midpoints at 5° markers?
Or are we doing a combination of both? (ie, including ALL midpoints but also including planets/points that otherwise might be exlcluded but end up being included due to proximity to 5 degree markers)?

And IF the answer has to do with the 5 degree markers, ie, those are used exclusively to determine what's included and what isn't, I was wondering what the rationale for that was, ie, what is the connection between 5 degree increments and determining timeframes when past lives were lived?

THANK YOU!  I very deeply appreciate the chance to ask this question and even more appreciate your willingness to consider it.

Best wishes,
Ellen


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Rad on May 01, 2014, 06:36 AM
Hi Ellen

These are the instructions, and you have understood these instructions correctly.

You will also notice that the arrow at 0 degrees of the cosmo dial is pointed at that Mars. On either side of the 0 degrees you will notice increments of 5 degrees each on either side of that 0 degree marker. And the opposite end of the 0 degrees is the 45 degree marker. To develop your personal cosmogram you will want to note the planets that connect together at the various five degree segments on either side of the 0 degree marker. So in our example cosmogram you will notice that Jupiter is at the 15 degree marker on the left side of the 0 degree marker, and that Venus is also at the 15 degree marker on the right side of the 0 degree marker that is always the reference point  in developing these cosmograms.


Here is how I am understanding the instructions:

1) I look specifically and strictly at 5 degree increments. 
2) Any planets with a 2 degree orb of those 5 degree increments is considered. 
3) If there is a planet (or point) in the corresponding 5 degree increment on the other side, within a 2 degree orb OF THE FOCUS PLANET, then there is a cosmogram. 
4) If there is no planet on the other side, within a 2 degree increment of the 5 degree marker, then there is no cosmogram.

I can't speak to what Solar Fire does as I personally have never used it for this purpose. But others have as I recall, and have spoken to this within the context of the thread at some point.

So the bottom line is very simple: use the cosmo dial and the cosmogram as instructed, place the birth planets within it, and they you will see, very simply, what planets form or do not form the cosmograms.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS
Post by: Elen on May 01, 2014, 07:50 AM
Hi Rad,

Thank you so much for your confirmation.  One of the reasons I asked is that others on the thread found Solar Fire's Midpoint Trees to be helpful in confirming what they came up with.  I have found that it comes up with a completely different set of branches, so wondered if/what I was doing wrong.  Thus I had been wondering if perhaps I should abandon doing it by hand and just rely on SF (I have a history of believing I am doing mathematical things just right but then consistently coming up with the wrong answers...).  At any rate, given what you have answered, I will rely on what I do by hand and trust that experience will guide me if any changes need to be made.  In the two charts I have done, I have found it insightful.

Thank you again, so very much, for letting me post and for your answer!

Best wishes,
Ellen