School of Evolutionary Astrology Message Board

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Linda on Apr 28, 2009, 06:56 PM



Title: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Linda on Apr 28, 2009, 06:56 PM
Hi everyone,

Since recently learning from this forum that EA prefer to use the Porphyry house system, I drew up my chart using this system, and now find that natal Pluto is very close to within 1 degree from the 11th house cusp.  With Placidus, Pluto's position was 5 deg away from this cusp.

Natal Jupiter is now found in the 12th house, not the 11th - and I can really relate to this also.

As far as Pluto in the 10th house goes, I have never aspired to worldly power, status and success.  In fact I'd say almost the opposite, that I have not achieved worldly power and status, nor desired it.  To be honest, I find that sort of power a little distasteful.  I have an aversion to worldly power, because it is so easily abused imo.  And perhaps I even abused it myself in prior lives.

Throughout my life I felt I was karmically blocked from playing a meaningful role in my society and especially in the culture of this country (not US).  Or perhaps my own soul desired to move forward, and resisted being pigeonholed by society, family, and friends.   

My Pluto is 29.59 deg Leo Rx. 

Could you please comment on house cusps and orbs in relation to natal Pluto.

Many thanks!


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: ari moshe on Apr 29, 2009, 09:24 AM
Hi Linda, thanks for bringing this up- I've been wanting to ask a question about porphyry as well.
can you post your chart or share your data so we can see the full context what your talking about?

I'm really interested in knowing more about why porphyry. I myself don't have a particular preference. When pulling up charts for clients, sometimes one house system feels really right, but sometimes another house system feels really right. im interested in hearing more about this.

It's funny, having an aversion to wordly power can be a pluto in the 10th house thing or it can be an 11th house orientation.


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Sajani on Apr 29, 2009, 10:02 AM
Throughout my life I felt I was karmically blocked from playing a meaningful role in my society and especially in the culture of this country (not US).  Or perhaps my own soul desired to move forward, and resisted being pigeonholed by society, family, and friends.   

My Pluto is 29.59 deg Leo Rx.  Could you please comment on house cusps and orbs in relation to natal Pluto. Many thanks!

Linda, to me, your quote here really illustrates that 10th house Pluto Retrograde. "Resisted being pigeonholed" is that retrograde - the need to do it YOUR way (and necessarily so as Jeffrey used to say), and thus you don't fit the "mold", so to speak, as defined BY society (10th house), and so you are "blocked from playing a meaningful role in my society and culture" etc. See how absolutely vivid your words are in relation to a 10th house Pluto? And the intent, of course, is in the PP in the 4th house: To develop INNER security - to be independent FROM society and draw your strength and courage from within - to trust yourSELF, etc. 

There are also times, especially within the context of the society in which we find ourselves, that we HAVE to follow the stupid 'rules' in ORDER to ge to the position where we can DO what we want within that society, but then we do it OUR OWN WAY! Who, then, gets the last laugh, so to speak?! :)

I agree with Ari, it woud be neat to have your chart to plug in the other components, especially of the basic EA axis of Pluto, the nodes, and the planetary rulers of the nodes.  Great question, Linda! I'm glad you brought it up.


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Apr 29, 2009, 12:39 PM
Hi Linda,

 The Porphyry House System is the preferred system for Evolutionary Astrology because it reflects the law of the trinity. The prime number in this system is 3. It was even developed by a Christian Mystic named Porphyry sometime in the 4th Century as I recall. It also is system that assumes that the space/place of one's birth is equal.
 Relative to orbs and house cusps: when a planet, any planet, is one or degree or less from a house cusp, i.e. that your Pluto is within one degree of the 11th House cusp, means that an entire sequence of lives is culminating relative to the archetype of the House / Sign that the Pluto, or any planet, is in. It's in essence mutating/ evolving from one archetype to the next: the house on it's immediate horizon. In your case that would be the 11th House. When a planet, any planet, is within one degree after a House Cusp that means the the culmination has basically been accomplished and that a brand new sequence of lives is beginning relative to the archetype of the House that that planet is in.
 Your own statements about your orientation to your existing 10th House Pluto demonstrates how important it is for the EA astrologer to know the specific evolutionary condition of each Soul. Anytime a Soul evolves beyond the consensus the orientation to the 10th House Pluto, in your case, is totally different than a consensus defined Soul.
 
   Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Linda on Apr 30, 2009, 05:10 PM
Thanks Ari, Sajani and Rad for answering my question.  I like the Porphyry house system as I feel it more accurately represents my chart.


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: ari moshe on Apr 30, 2009, 07:28 PM
Hi Rad, and everyone,
I wonder if there is a way to tangibly see that dynamic operating in a persons life- when a planet is on the cusp of a non-angular house. In other words, relative to evolutionary state and karma, what does it actually look like when a function is mutating from one archetype to the next?
AND
does your statement imply that a 10th house pluto will naturally evolve in progression through lifetimes to an 11th house, then a 12th house etc... ??


So about house systems- does anyone know of a site that goes into the philosophical difference between the various house systems? and in particular, any ea material that explains "why porphyryryr"?
Thanks!


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: ari moshe on May 01, 2009, 03:35 AM
if anyone has more info, great, however in an early morning read of the old ea message board from 1999, i found this:

(Answer) the traditional equal house system, in my view, is totally bogus. the porphyry system is the best to use for evolutionary purposes. it does reflect that the space of one's birth place is equal, yet reflects the obvious reality of an mc and ic..the primary vertical and horizontal in which the space is equal within it...the root number in this system is 3 which is the root number is all mathmatics...this system was developed by a christin mystic named porphyry in the 4th centure AD...and reflects the spiritual law of the trinity. jeffrey


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on May 02, 2009, 09:29 AM
Hi Ari,

Hi Rad, and everyone,
I wonder if there is a way to tangibly see that dynamic operating in a persons life- when a planet is on the cusp of a non-angular house. In other words, relative to evolutionary state and karma, what does it actually look like when a function is mutating from one archetype to the next?

What it looks like is that the individual will exhibit psychological/ behavioral dynamics of both of the archetypes. In the case where the planet is before the actual house cusp in question the bottom line in those dynamics will be the actual house that the planet is in while moving towards the archetypal dynamics of the house that it is moving towards. In the case where the planet is already in the house by one degree or less the bottom line dynamics will that house with an 'overlay' of the dynamics/ behaviors of the house that has just been left behind.

Quote
AND
does your statement imply that a 10th house pluto will naturally evolve in progression through lifetimes to an 11th house, then a 12th house etc... ??

No.

 Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: stephen on Jun 07, 2009, 08:27 PM
quote from Rad: May 02, 2009, 09:29:02 AM
Quote
What it looks like is that the individual will exhibit psychological/ behavioral dynamics of both of the archetypes. In the case where the planet is before the actual house cusp in question the bottom line in those dynamics will be the actual house that the planet is in while moving towards the archetypal dynamics of the house that it is moving towards. In the case where the planet is already in the house by one degree or less the bottom line dynamics will that house with an 'overlay' of the dynamics/ behaviors of the house that has just been left behind.

question: If the planet is 'already in the house by one degree or less' (after the cusp) and additonally is retrograde, is that process reversed, and so the psychological/ behavioral dynamics will be an 'overlay' of the dynamics/ behaviors of the house that the planet is in while then moving towards the archetypal dynamics of the PREVIOUS house?


Copied below are the rest of the 'hits' from the archived Message Board, and a very brief explanation of the Porphyry house method from Wikipedia.  I added the dates in case anyone wants to read the questions, as well.  What an amazing resource we are given in that Message Board and in this growing Forum.

Quote
19-Jan-1999
(Answer) the traditional equal house system, in my view, is totally bogus. the porphyry system is the best to use for evolutionary purposes. it does reflect that the space of one's birth place is equal, yet reflects the obvious reality of an mc and ic..the primary vertical and horizontal in which the space is equal within it...the root number in this system is 3 which is the root number is all mathmatics...this system was developed by a christin mystic named porphyry in the 4th centure AD...and reflects the spiritual law of the trinity. jeffrey

Quote
08-Sep-1999
(Answer) Well, this system was actually developed by a Christian Mystic named Porphyry in the 4th Century A.d. The root number in the system is 3, and conceives that the space of one's birth is equal. 3 is the root number in all advanced mathmatics. And, for evolutionary purposes, reflects the spiritual law of the trinity, or, from a more mundane point of view, the past, present, and future. Thus, for evolutionary purposes, this is the system of choice. jeffrey

Quote
10-May-2000
the core difference in house systems is whether they are 'space' based, or 'time' based. this means in time based systems like placidius that the degrees on the various houses are determined by the amount of time it takes for the sun to travel from the ascendant to the m.c. at one's birth. space based systems like porphyry divide the amound of space relative to the mc and ascendant equally relative to the place of one's birth. the origin of the porphyry system is based on a christina mystic from the 4th century a.d., his name being porphyry. the root number in the system is 3 which of course is the number in all advanced mathmatics. you can also see how this reflects the law of the trinity, or evolution relative to past, present, future. for evolutionary purposes this is the house system of choice. Jeffrey

Quote
29-Oct-2000
the law of three is simply the natural law of evolution itself: past present future. and of course this natural law has permeated all of the major religions of the world as in christianity........the father son holy ghost... around the fourth century a christian mystic named porphyry developed this house system called porhyry. it is based on this natural law of three or the trinity. the root number is all mathmatics is three. so porphyry then postulated that wherever one is born that the space of that place is equal: i.e. the relationship of the asc to the m.c.. in any horoscope there will be x amount of degrees between the asc and the m.c.. in the porphyry system that amount of 'space' or degree's is then divided by three. whatever the quotient is.....i.e. 90 degrees..is then divided by three......equalling a quotient....i.e. in this example it would be 30 degrees....that quotient is then added to the natal m.c. degree which then equals the 11th house cusp. that same quotient is then added to this 11th house cusp the create the 12th house cusp and this is  then added to the 12th house cusp which comes right back to the natal degrees of the asc.....this is then also done relative to the asc and the i.c...and the relevant cusps are then determined........ Jeffrey

Quote
April 01, 2001
Jeffrey: The best system for evolutionary astrology is the Porphyry House system. This system was developed in the 4th century by a Christian mystic named Porphyry. The root number in the system is 3 which of course is the root number in all advanced mathematics. Thus the natural law of the trinity: past, present, future. It thus assumes that the local space of one's birth is equal. It is a 'spatial' based system. The 'true' node is the node to be used.

Quote
July 27, 2001
Jeffrey: I use the Porphyry system for all things

Quote
Wikipedia:
Quadrant house systems divide the houses so that they agree with the "quadrant" concept (ascendant on the first house cusp, nadir on the fourth, descendant on the seventh, and midheaven on the tenth). In the Porphyry house system, each quadrant of the ecliptic is divided into three equal parts between the four angles. This is the oldest system of quadrant style house division.

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Jun 08, 2009, 01:09 PM
Stephen,

question: If the planet is 'already in the house by one degree or less' (after the cusp) and additonally is retrograde, is that process reversed, and so the psychological/ behavioral dynamics will be an 'overlay' of the dynamics/ behaviors of the house that the planet is in while then moving towards the archetypal dynamics of the PREVIOUS house?

****************************************************************************

 No. That is not the case at all. The retrograde archetype, among other archetypal meanings, correlates with INDIVIDUALIZING whatever it touches. Thus, it actually accelerates the evolution of the Soul.

 Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: stephen on Jun 08, 2009, 04:38 PM

 No. That is not the case at all. The retrograde archetype, among other archetypal meanings, correlates with INDIVIDUALIZING whatever it touches. Thus, it actually accelerates the evolution of the Soul.

 Rad

Rad,

Thanks very much for the response, which leads me to ask another question.  Does it individualize whatever it touches if the person is in an individuated state, and spiritualize whatever it touches if the person is in a spiritual state?  Or, is that an overlapping of concepts?

A friend of mine was learning a new language, and she said that suddenly one day, she started to think in that language, and after that the learning process was greatly accelerated.  That is what I am working towards..learning to think in the language of EA.

By the way, for my own notes, I edited together the various 'hits' from the message board concerning Jeffrey Wolf Green's comments about the use of Porphyry Houses.  I thought it might be of value, so I went ahead and posted that below.  In editing, I tried not to remove important information nor add anything that didn't exist in the originals.

Blessings,
Stephen




Porphyry Houses:
Quadrant house systems divide the houses so that they agree with the “quadrant” concept (ascendant on the first house cusp, nadir on the fourth, descendant on the seventh, and midheaven on the tenth).  In the Porphyry house system, each quadrant of the ecliptic is divided into three equal parts between the four angles.  This is the oldest system of quadrant style house division.
-source: Wikipedia search: Porphyry


The core difference in house systems are whether they are ‘time’ based or ‘space’ based.  This means that in time based systems like Placidius, the degrees on the various houses are determined by the amount of time it takes for the Sun to travel from the Ascendant at one's birth to the MC.   However, space-based systems like Porphyry divide the amount of space relative to the MC and Ascendant equally - relative to the place of one's birth.
The Porphyry House System was developed by a Christian mystic named Porphyry in the 4th century AD.  This system reflects that the space of one's birth place is equal, reflecting the obvious reality of MC and IC as the primary vertical and horizontal within which that space is equal.

Porphyry postulated wherever one is born, the space of that place is equal, i.e. the relationship of the Ascendant to the MC.  In any horoscope there will be x amount of degrees between the Ascendant and the MC.  In the Porphyry House System that amount of ‘space’ in degrees is then divided by three.  That number of degrees (example: 90 degrees) is therefore divided by three to equal a quotient (example:  30 degrees).  That quotient is then added to the natal MC degree, and the result equals the 11th house cusp.  That same quotient is then added to this 11th house cusp in order to create the 12th house cusp, and the same quotient is again added to the 12th house cusp which comes right back to the natal degrees of the Ascendant.  This same method is also completed relative to the Ascendant and the IC to determine the relevant cusps.

The root number in this system is three, which is the root number in all advanced mathematics.  For evolutionary purposes, this reflects the Spiritual Law of the Trinity, and of course this natural law has permeated all of the major religions of the world, as in Christianity…Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.  From a more mundane point of view, the Natural Law of Three is simply the natural law of evolution itself relative to the past, present, and future.

The best system for Evolutionary Astrology is the Porphyry House system, since, for evolutionary purposes, this is the system of choice.

I use the Porphyry system for all things.

- edited comments by Jeffrey Wolf Green; Archived EA Message Board Q&A, 1999-2003
:: 19.Jan.1999 08.Sep.1999 10.May.2000 29.Oct.2000 01.April.2001 27.July.2001





Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Jun 09, 2009, 11:06 AM
Hi Stephan,


 No. That is not the case at all. The retrograde archetype, among other archetypal meanings, correlates with INDIVIDUALIZING whatever it touches. Thus, it actually accelerates the evolution of the Soul.

 Rad

Rad,

Thanks very much for the response, which leads me to ask another question.  Does it individualize whatever it touches if the person is in an individuated state, and spiritualize whatever it touches if the person is in a spiritual state?  Or, is that an overlapping of concepts?

**************************************************************************

 The retrograde archetype operates at all levels of evolution for all Souls. The individualizing aspect of it means that is operates in a Uranus like way in that it progressively rejects or rebels against the external conditioning of how a given archetype, i.e. Venus, is expected to to be actualized or lived. The rejection or rebellion is about uncovering , progressively, what that actual truth is about the inherent individuality of any given Soul relative to all the various archetypes that in total equal the consciousness of the Soul in human form. The rejection or rebellion of the retrograde archetype thus accelerates the natural evolutionary progression of the Soul because it withdraws from the external expectations equaling conditioning of the planet, archetype, that is retrograde. This individualizing aspect of the retrograde archetype applies to all levels of evolution. In the spiritual state, for example, it means for each Soul to discover their own individual way of reuniting with it's source: God/ess.

**************************************************************************

A friend of mine was learning a new language, and she said that suddenly one day, she started to think in that language, and after that the learning process was greatly accelerated.  That is what I am working towards..learning to think in the language of EA.

***************************************************************************

 Yes, and it's Soul has it's own SOUL LANGUAGE that in total defines the inherent individuality of all Souls. The retrograde archetype intends for all of us to remember/ relearn that Soul language that resides in each of us.

***************************************************************************

By the way, for my own notes, I edited together the various 'hits' from the message board concerning Jeffrey Wolf Green's comments about the use of Porphyry Houses.  I thought it might be of value, so I went ahead and posted that below.  In editing, I tried not to remove important information nor add anything that didn't exist in the originals.

*************************************************************************

 Thanks for doing that Stephen.............


 Rad













Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: stephen on Jun 09, 2009, 09:21 PM

Quote
The retrograde archetype operates at all levels of evolution for all Souls. The individualizing aspect of it means that is operates in a Uranus like way in that it progressively rejects or rebels against the external conditioning of how a given archetype, i.e. Venus, is expected to to be actualized or lived. The rejection or rebellion is about uncovering , progressively, what that actual truth is about the inherent individuality of any given Soul relative to all the various archetypes that in total equal the consciousness of the Soul in human form. The rejection or rebellion of the retrograde archetype thus accelerates the natural evolutionary progression of the Soul because it withdraws from the external expectations equaling conditioning of the planet, archetype, that is retrograde. This individualizing aspect of the retrograde archetype applies to all levels of evolution. In the spiritual state, for example, it means for each Soul to discover their own individual way of reuniting with it's source: God/ess.

Thanks very much for that explanation!  More great information!  So, for example, my birthchart shows Saturn and Neptune as natal retrograde planets, and this would then mean that I am in "rejection or rebellion of the retrograde archetype" of limitation (Saturn) and illusion (Neptune)...?

Quote
Thanks for doing that Stephen...

You are of course welcome.  I am simply attempting to bring something of value to this site, for I am getting GREAT value from this site, and from the JWG Paradigm of Evolutionary Astrology.

Rad, Thanks very much for the time and the teachings!!

Blessings,
Stephen



Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Jun 10, 2009, 12:34 PM
HI Stephen,
 
Quote

Thanks very much for that explanation!  More great information!  So, for example, my birthchart shows Saturn and Neptune as natal retrograde planets, and this would then mean that I am in "rejection or rebellion of the retrograde archetype" of limitation (Saturn) and illusion (Neptune)...?


 Saturn correlates to the structural nature of our consciousness which means that whatever house and sign that our Saturn is in conditions and defines every other archetype, planet, within our consciousness. Saturn correlates with what is called 'reality' in general, and what constitutes 'reality' as defined by the consensus of any given group of people at any point in time. Saturn correlates the the natural function that all within a group have in order to sustain the needs of that group. Thus, what has come to be called 'careers' or 'work' within a given group or society. Saturn correlates with the very phenomena of time and space, and, as a result, finitude. Saturn correlates to gravity and thus mass. In combination Saturn thus correlates to form. Relative to a consensus of people Saturn correlates with laws, customs, and norms that the group is expected to conform too for group to maintain stability. Thus, is correlates to man made laws. Because of it's correlation to time, and that which is finite, Saturn also correlates with aging and thus emotional/ psychological maturation.
 When Saturn is retrograde the Soul will naturally rebel from anyone or anything telling it how to be, or what to do, or what to think, of what 'reality' is actually about as defined and assumed to be real by the consensus of the society that it is born into. It will  rebel even from the parental authority if that authority is imposed for no other reason than to impose it. Saturn retrograde needs to determine it's own reality, it's own authority, and integrate itself into society in it's own way that honors what it feels to be it's inherent individuality. With Saturn retrograde and correlating to the structural nature of consciousness this then means that every other archetype, planet, within that consciousness is also being defined via this overall retrograde archetype even if other planets themselves are not retrograde. With Saturn retrograde it's like pointing an arrow towards Uranus.
  Neptune correlates with the phenomena of consciousness itself. Consciousness in human form. It correlates to infinity and thus timelessness. Ultimate reality versus man made realities. It correlates to the Source of all things and our natural relationship to the Source. It correlates to the what to ultimate meaning versus temporal meaning that we give things that ultimately have no meaning when measured against ultimate meaning. It correlates with transcendence and the need to transcend temporal reality. And so on. When Neptune is retrograde it points to Pluto itself: our Soul. When Neptune is retrograde there is an accelerated evolutionary desire, need, to throw off all things that are of a delusive nature: that which is not actually 'real' yet what we have considered real before the delusion or illusion was finally understood. Thus, it emphasizes the process of disillusionment leading to that which is actually real from an ultimate point of view. Relative to uniting our consciousness, Soul, with that which has created us in the first place, the Neptune retrograde will necessarily do so in it's own way. And so on.

 Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: stephen on Jun 10, 2009, 01:00 PM
Rad,

Thanks so much for the detailed information, and as with the other informative posts, I will print this and study it.

Quote
Saturn retrograde needs to determine it's own reality, it's own authority, and integrate itself into society in it's own way that honors what it feels to be it's inherent individuality. With Saturn retrograde and correlating to the structural nature of consciousness this then means that every other archetype, planet, within that consciousness is also being defined via this overall retrograde archetype even if other planets themselves are not retrograde. With Saturn retrograde it's like pointing an arrow towards Uranus.

I don't think that I have enough of the Paradigm to understand all of that, honestly.  If the Saturn archetype is so rebellous, and helping to define my other conscious functions, I'm not sure I understand how that would manifest?

I am not asking for further information, definitely not a free reading, just stating the following:

My natal chart has Saturn Retrograde at 10degrees35min Aquarius conjunct the Moon's South Node at 10degrees50min Aquarius, and both square Neptune Retrograde at 10degrees57min Scorpio and Mars at 18degrees36min Taurus, and Saturn is in opposition to Venus at 7degrees4mi Leo conjunct the Moon's North Node in Leo.
Interesting that the only two planets in the chart that are retrograde are in such a close square!  Does that have any meaning the discussion of which would benefit this message board?  If its not of benefit to the board, though, then I withdraw the question! ;)

Quote
When Neptune is retrograde it points to Pluto itself: our Soul. When Neptune is retrograde there is an accelerated evolutionary desire, need, to throw off all things that are of a delusive nature: that which is not actually 'real' yet what we have considered real before the delusion or illusion was finally understood. Thus, it emphasizes the process of disillusionment leading to that which is actually real from an ultimate point of view. Relative to uniting our consciousness, Soul, with that which has created us in the first place, the Neptune retrograde will necessarily do so in it's own way.

That is exactly what is happening to me lately!!  Something recently went 'gong' and my perception starting clearing, and now I am trying to cast aside many different levels of self-imposed illusions and their accompanying delusions...however, there always seems to be more and more and more...a flood of stuff, actually...  The only real lesson I have deeply learned is that there are an endless amount of lessons to learn, and I think the EA Paradigm has insights for me, and so I am on this board, and reading and watching the DVDs as if this Paradigm is a bit of solid land in a usually stormy ocean!  (If this personal stuff doesn't belong here, just let me know, and I will certainly delete it.)! ??? :-\

If this thread is maybe helping others, and not just me (I hope it is), I would like to ask another question:

What would have caused such a thing to happen at this time?  Or, does that require a full chart analysis, employing other techniques which I only know the buzz-words for: progressions, transits, etc...?  (If so, we can leave it at that.)

Thanks again for your energy,

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Jun 11, 2009, 12:13 PM
Stephan,



Quote
Saturn retrograde needs to determine it's own reality, it's own authority, and integrate itself into society in it's own way that honors what it feels to be it's inherent individuality. With Saturn retrograde and correlating to the structural nature of consciousness this then means that every other archetype, planet, within that consciousness is also being defined via this overall retrograde archetype even if other planets themselves are not retrograde. With Saturn retrograde it's like pointing an arrow towards Uranus.

I don't think that I have enough of the Paradigm to understand all of that, honestly.  If the Saturn archetype is so rebellous, and helping to define my other conscious functions, I'm not sure I understand how that would manifest? I am not asking for further information, definitely not a free reading, just stating the following:

My natal chart has Saturn Retrograde at 10degrees35min Aquarius conjunct the Moon's South Node at 10degrees50min Aquarius, and both square Neptune Retrograde at 10degrees57min Scorpio and Mars at 18degrees36min Taurus, and Saturn is in opposition to Venus at 7degrees4mi Leo conjunct the Moon's North Node in Leo.
Interesting that the only two planets in the chart that are retrograde are in such a close square!  Does that have any meaning the discussion of which would benefit this message board?  If its not of benefit to the board, though, then I withdraw the question! ;)

*************************************************************************

 "That is exactly what is happening to me lately!!  Something recently went 'gong' and my perception starting clearing, and now I am trying to cast aside many different levels of self-imposed illusions and their accompanying delusions...however, there always seems to be more and more and more...a flood of stuff, actually... "

  *******************************************************************

 In a nutshell you just answered your own question about how that pattern manifests, the EA intent behind it ...............

*************************************************************************

I am not asking for further information, definitely not a free reading, just stating the following:

***************************************************************************

 It's real nice for you to be so considerate Stephan but please feel free to ask more about your chart because, after all, the more you understand the EA paradigm as applied to your own actual life the more you will then be able to help others with it ................ most students learn this way ..........

**************************************************************************

Quote
When Neptune is retrograde it points to Pluto itself: our Soul. When Neptune is retrograde there is an accelerated evolutionary desire, need, to throw off all things that are of a delusive nature: that which is not actually 'real' yet what we have considered real before the delusion or illusion was finally understood. Thus, it emphasizes the process of disillusionment leading to that which is actually real from an ultimate point of view. Relative to uniting our consciousness, Soul, with that which has created us in the first place, the Neptune retrograde will necessarily do so in it's own way.

Quote

That is exactly what is happening to me lately!!  Something recently went 'gong' and my perception starting clearing, and now I am trying to cast aside many different levels of self-imposed illusions and their accompanying delusions...however, there always seems to be more and more and more...a flood of stuff, actually...  The only real lesson I have deeply learned is that there are an endless amount of lessons to learn, and I think the EA Paradigm has insights for me, and so I am on this board, and reading and watching the DVDs as if this Paradigm is a bit of solid land in a usually stormy ocean!  (If this personal stuff doesn't belong here, just let me know, and I will certainly delete it.)! ??? :-\

If this thread is maybe helping others, and not just me (I hope it is), I would like to ask another question:

What would have caused such a thing to happen at this time?  Or, does that require a full chart analysis, employing other techniques which I only know the buzz-words for: progressions, transits, etc...?  (If so, we can leave it at that.)

*****************************************************************************

 The natal chart reflects the EA intention for a lifetime ... and the timing of inner and outer developments that correlate with the progressive actualization of that intention is indeed the phenomena of transits and progressions. If you feel like it Stephan go ahead and post your chart and/ or birth data and we can go through this some more....................

****************************************************************************


Thanks again for your energy,



Blessings,
Stephen


  Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: stephen on Jun 11, 2009, 01:42 PM
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It's real nice for you to be so considerate Stephan but please feel free to ask more about your chart because, after all, the more you understand the EA paradigm as applied to your own actual life the more you will then be able to help others with it ................ most students learn this way ..........


Thanks Rad.  I have been reading the archived posts, and JWG states in threads there that the Message Board is not the place for readings, so, I wanted to honor that if it was a rule here.  Yes, some readings are being done here I noticed, but I didn't know the rules, and certainly don't want attention upon me at this board if people reading it now or years from now won't gain benefit.  My very very stong intention is that one day I WILL help others through the requested application of the EA Paradigm to their charts.  This is requiring a rather severe mindset alteration on my part, however, as I do not have a previous framework for this particular paradigm, and additionally, my mind enjoys constantly tricking itself with what it thinks are very clever thoughts. ::)  The horse must be rode, however!  (But...first, the Bronco must be broke!)

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The natal chart reflects the EA intention for a lifetime ... and the timing of inner and outer developments that correlate with the progressive actualization of that intention is indeed the phenomena of transits and progressions. If you feel like it Stephan go ahead and post your chart and/ or birth data and we can go through this some more....................

Thanks yet again for the explanations and answers...and for the offer of posting my birth data.
I would like to post that data, and listen to anyone's comments on it.
Would you want it in this thread, or a new thread?

Thanks for helping me to progress as a student,
This is very important to me,
Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Jun 12, 2009, 07:39 AM
Hi Stephan,
  Start a new thread with your chart posted in it. Please provide your own estimation of your Evolutionary stage, i.e. individuated, etc, and ask specific type questions as you can about what you want those on the message board to answer, i.e. 'what's my evolutionary intentions for the current lifetime". Provide too, if you feel comfortable, a little of your life experiences too for that provides 'context' for the EA astrologer to work with.

 Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: stephen on Jun 12, 2009, 05:13 PM
Hi Stephan,
  Start a new thread with your chart posted in it. Please provide your own estimation of your Evolutionary stage, i.e. individuated, etc, and ask specific type questions as you can about what you want those on the message board to answer, i.e. 'what's my evolutionary intentions for the current lifetime". Provide too, if you feel comfortable, a little of your life experiences too for that provides 'context' for the EA astrologer to work with.
 Rad

Thanks very much Rad.  I wrote up a background, and will start the thread.

Here goes... :)

God'dess Bless,
Stephen


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Linda on Jul 01, 2009, 03:38 PM

Linda, to me, your quote here really illustrates that 10th house Pluto Retrograde. "Resisted being pigeonholed" is that retrograde - the need to do it YOUR way (and necessarily so as Jeffrey used to say), and thus you don't fit the "mold", so to speak, as defined BY society (10th house), and so you are "blocked from playing a meaningful role in my society and culture" etc. See how absolutely vivid your words are in relation to a 10th house Pluto? And the intent, of course, is in the PP in the 4th house: To develop INNER security - to be independent FROM society and draw your strength and courage from within - to trust yourSELF, etc.  

There are also times, especially within the context of the society in which we find ourselves, that we HAVE to follow the stupid 'rules' in ORDER to ge to the position where we can DO what we want within that society, but then we do it OUR OWN WAY! Who, then, gets the last laugh, so to speak?! :)



Hi again Sajani,

Natal Pluto retrograde at the end of the 10th house

It seems I'm feeling conflicted about being a part of society in light of Pluto's transit through Capricorn, and resisting being part of the society because I resist being pigeonholed and as Jeff said I necessarily need to do it my own way.  

How would my Natal Pluto Retrograde at the end of the 10th house operate within the current Pluto transit through Capricorn?  I've suffered blocks from society for many years and rejection from the mainstream even though I have amazing talents that I can offer society.  I realise this rejection relates to past life abuses of power.  But playing by society's (man-made), herd-like rules is so difficult - I don't agree with their rules because they only seem to serve their own "mainstream group", and not everyone.  Hopefully Pluto through Capricorn is addressing this imbalance. 

I realize that evolution for me has taken place through Pluto's polarity, Aquarius, and I now approach this problem that I perceive in society in a new way, by practising astrology over the internet and reaching many people.  As this does not support my physical survival, I am left having to rely on employment within the society.  I am clearly seeing the mainstream group and how they operate - and I don't want to be part of it yet am forced to be to some extent - I just feel like running in the opposite direction.  

In my limited involvement with society (and employment therein) I'm feeling an abhorrence to it - yet I realise that Pluto's transit through Capricorn is forcing us to become aware of the greater whole, the collective, and perhaps fulfil some work function or purpose within it.  That our immediate evolution is happening through this Pluto through Capricorn transit.

It's also interesting that my feelings are heightened while T-Pluto is presently retrograde and squaring my Jupiter Libra 12th as we speak.

Any thoughts whatsoever around these questions/issues would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!
Linda


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Steve on Jul 02, 2009, 09:59 AM

It seems I'm feeling conflicted about being a part of society in light of Pluto's transit through Capricorn, and resisting being part of the society because I resist being pigeonholed and as Jeff said I necessarily need to do it my own way.  

How would my Natal Pluto Retrograde at the end of the 10th house operate within the current Pluto transit through Capricorn?  I've suffered blocks from society for many years and rejection from the mainstream even though I have amazing talents that I can offer society.  I realise this rejection relates to past life abuses of power.  But playing by society's (man-made), herd-like rules is so difficult - I don't agree with their rules because they only seem to serve their own "mainstream group", and not everyone.  Hopefully Pluto through Capricorn is addressing this imbalance. 

I realize that evolution for me has taken place through Pluto's polarity, Aquarius, and I now approach this problem that I perceive in society in a new way, by practising astrology over the internet and reaching many people.  As this does not support my physical survival, I am left having to rely on employment within the society.  I am clearly seeing the mainstream group and how they operate - and I don't want to be part of it yet am forced to be to some extent - I just feel like running in the opposite direction.  

In my limited involvement with society (and employment therein) I'm feeling an abhorrence to it - yet I realise that Pluto's transit through Capricorn is forcing us to become aware of the greater whole, the collective, and perhaps fulfil some work function or purpose within it.  That our immediate evolution is happening through this Pluto through Capricorn transit.

Linda,

If I recall correctly you see yourself as 1st stage spiritual, and have pluto less than one degree from the 11th house. 

It's been stated at different times that the % of people on earth in spiritual state is between 2% and 10%.  In other words, what you know as reality within yourself can never be grasped by 90% - 98% of those around you, at this point in time.  This in itself creates an intense sense of aloneness and alienation.  And, alienation is inherent in the Aquarius/Uranian/11th house archetype.  At the least that is your Pluto polarity point, and the evolutionary intent of your Pluto in this life (less than 1 degree from 11th house cusp). 

There IS no way you can integrate, or even accept, the mainstream consensus on its own terms.  All your attempts to do so will result in futility (10th house), exhaustion, and even depression.  The approach one must learn to adopt is to realize you can be (or, may have to be) IN it, but it has nothing to do with who you are.  It's like, that is your CAREER (10th house), but it is not who you are and in itself will never complete you.  That just has to be accepted.  It comes with the territory.

All the frustration, aloneness, and the rest, point you back to yourself, to realize ever more deeply your actual nature, who you truly are.  Also have to remember, you are not the Doer - the real work simply comes through you.  If it is not happening in the way you think you want it to happen, this is not a mistake.  Its not even to sit there racking your brains about what you are doing wrong - these are not mistakes but experiences we have to accept.  Like everything else, they are temporary - even if 5 years long - they will pass, and the You will still be there after they are a memory. 

I realize you have a deep inner yearning to do what you feel you have come here to do, but also have to remember, past a certain point the timing is not up to you.  All you can do is show up, inwardly say "I am ready", and at times when appropriate it will happen.  10th house Pluto - you do not control that process.   Its not so much about you getting to use your gifts that would help others as it is about serving the needs of those God sends your way, whether two or twenty thousand.  If you are putting forth all your efforts and they are not appearing, this is not a mistake, nor does it mean you are doing something wrong.  It would come down to timing, and patience.  And acceptance of What Is at this time...

As far as having to work in the mainstream, this too is likely temporary.  You are not supposed to "like" it or feel at home there, you will not fit in (ever), and it has little to do with who you are.  Really accepting that, deeply, helps.  Its not uncommon that even within situations like that, you wind up being of service to others, as you wind up in conversations with people who start revealing things they normally don't discuss, and then you have insight that helps them, eases their mind, gives them new approaches to consider.  They would not normally have access to this, in the lives they have created.  And then you are fulfilling a function that God has placed you there to do, helping others in the most mundane setting. 

The point is, in such circumstances you are always thrown back on yourself, to your baseline sense of who you are - out of that aloneness and alienation, you gradually become increasingly aware of greater depth within.  Inner resolve strengthens, and you realize ever more that even though you may be stationed within the mainstream, it has nothing to do with who you are.

As far as Pluto in Cap, to me one of its important functions is to remove structures of all sorts that have become crystallized (no longer serve a useful evolutionary function), frozen in place, through the principle of our sense of security is based on the known, on both the personal (Cancer/4th) and societal (Cap/10th) levels.  In essence a dynamiting of hardened rock that is holding back evolutionary progress.  This process is affecting everyone, 1st stage consensus and 3rd stage spiritual.  Its sometimes not the most fun-filled feeling one has ever known.  Long term, it quite effectively fulfills its intents.
Steve


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Linda on Jul 02, 2009, 03:27 PM
Steve:

Thank you for delving into this.  If I can get clarity and understanding about my own chart, then I can fulfil my desire to teach others.  The intense and passionate thirst for knowledge is reflected by my Saturn Sag 2nd trine Uranus Leo MC.  That is the only aspect Saturn makes in my chart, except for a sextile to Chiron Aquarius 4th.

If I recall correctly you see yourself as 1st stage spiritual, and have pluto less than one degree from the 11th house.  

Yes, definitely 1st stage spiritual - and over the past year some 2nd stage experiences - but mainly in the 1st stage.

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Steve says:   It's been stated at different times that the % of people on earth in spiritual state is between 2% and 10%.  In other words, what you know as reality within yourself can never be grasped by 90% - 98% of those around you, at this point in time.  This in itself creates an intense sense of aloneness and alienation.  And, alienation is inherent in the Aquarius/Uranian/11th house archetype.  At the least that is your Pluto polarity point, and the evolutionary intent of your Pluto in this life (less than 1 degree from 11th house cusp).
 

I can totally accept this.  In fact, I now enjoy the intense sense of aloneness and alienation because I have more time to focus on what is truly important to my soul.  I thank God/ess I have friends here and a few close friends in the world, eg Chuck.

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Steve:   There IS no way you can integrate, or even accept, the mainstream consensus on its own terms.  All your attempts to do so will result in futility (10th house), exhaustion, and even depression.  The approach one must learn to adopt is to realize you can be (or, may have to be) IN it, but it has nothing to do with who you are.  It's like, that is your CAREER (10th house), but it is not who you are and in itself will never complete you.  That just has to be accepted.  It comes with the territory.

Yes, I can totally accept this also.  It was never my intention to accept or integrate into the mainstream consensus since earlier attempts were futile and resulted in exhaustion - I was expressing my aversion to it.  But since concretely learning about my true 1st stage spiritual state (which has operated all my life), it has become much easier.  

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Steve:   Also have to remember, you are not the Doer - the real work simply comes through you.
   

This is beautiful - and speaks to my soul!  A lot has been coming through me lately - and I could not help but feel intense responsibility in the work (3 Capricorn personal planets!).  Thank you for letting me see that it is not ME that is doing the work:  this is wonderful!

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Steve:   It's not so much about you getting to use your gifts that would help others as it is about serving the needs of those God sends your way, whether two or twenty thousand.  It would come down to timing, and patience.  And acceptance of What Is at this time...

This has been occurring lately.  I will gladly be patient and accept WHAT IS at this time.

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Steve:   As far as having to work in the mainstream, this too is likely temporary.  You are not supposed to "like" it or feel at home there, you will not fit in (ever), and it has little to do with who you are.  Really accepting that, deeply, helps.  


Please understand that it was never my intention to "fit in" with the mainstream, as that was exhausted many years ago.  Yes, the mainstream has very little to do with who I am.  

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Steve:   Its not uncommon that even within situations like that, you wind up being of service to others, as you wind up in conversations with people who start revealing things they normally don't discuss, and then you have insight that helps them, eases their mind, gives them new approaches to consider.  They would not normally have access to this, in the lives they have created.  And then you are fulfilling a function that God has placed you there to do, helping others in the most mundane setting.
 

I don't really talk with mainstream people about spiritual things, but mainly talk with friends who come my way, and through astrology readings.  I can offer these people little tidbits and a new approach as they already have an interest.  I enter discussions with people who are open to hear, and who have an interest in spirituality.  I am only involved with the mainstream for 6 hours per week (working in a chinese restaurant) so it is not really my intention to take these deep spiritual messages to them - at the same time I understand that they have made their own choices to be where they are.

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Steve:   The point is, in such circumstances you are always thrown back on yourself, to your baseline sense of who you are - out of that aloneness and alienation, you gradually become increasingly aware of greater depth within.  Inner resolve strengthens, and you realize ever more that even though you may be stationed within the mainstream, it has nothing to do with who you are.

I am becoming aware of greater depth within this is for sure.  Thank you for helping me strengthen my inner resolve...which affirms my deepest and true feelings.

Your answers have removed all conflict and made things clearer for me.

Many thanks Steve for your time and wisdom!


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Steve on Jul 02, 2009, 05:53 PM
Hi Linda

I hope you are getting some good Chinese food for your end of the bargain   ;)
Best to you
Steve


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Mara on Nov 22, 2016, 04:39 PM
Hi Linda,

 The Porphyry House System is the preferred system for Evolutionary Astrology because it reflects the law of the trinity. The prime number in this system is 3. It was even developed by a Christian Mystic named Porphyry sometime in the 4th Century as I recall. It also is system that assumes that the space/place of one's birth is equal.
 Relative to orbs and house cusps: when a planet, any planet, is one or degree or less from a house cusp, i.e. that your Pluto is within one degree of the 11th House cusp, means that an entire sequence of lives is culminating relative to the archetype of the House / Sign that the Pluto, or any planet, is in. It's in essence mutating/ evolving from one archetype to the next: the house on it's immediate horizon. In your case that would be the 11th House. When a planet, any planet, is within one degree after a House Cusp that means the the culmination has basically been accomplished and that a brand new sequence of lives is beginning relative to the archetype of the House that that planet is in.
 Your own statements about your orientation to your existing 10th House Pluto demonstrates how important it is for the EA astrologer to know the specific evolutionary condition of each Soul. Anytime a Soul evolves beyond the consensus the orientation to the 10th House Pluto, in your case, is totally different than a consensus defined Soul.
 
   Rad


Hi, I would like to know what does it exactly mean "the space/place of one's birth is equal"? What does it mean with "equal"?
I am trying to understand how the house systems work. I quite get the idea of the trinity and the 1st house (Asc), 10th house (Mc). But I don't quite comprehend the meaning of "space of one's birth is equal".

Thanks!

Mara


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Nov 23, 2016, 05:55 AM
Hi Mara,

This refers to the equal house system which is a system wherein the houses are of equal space, 30 degrees, to one another.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Mara on Nov 23, 2016, 01:16 PM
Hi Mara,

This refers to the equal house system which is a system wherein the houses are of equal space, 30 degrees, to one another.

God Bless, Rad

Thank you Rad, for your reply.

Ok, let me see if I got it correctly. I have kept reading around this topic. It is quite confusing when I am a self-learner. I have been self-studying astrology from some years ago, and now it is time to choose a house system. Have been studying the history behind Placidus, Koch, Porphyry and Topocentric systems, applying them to my readings and seeing the variations. Deeply interested in Porphyry.

So, let's see:

Equal House System: ALL 12 houses are equal (30 deg each).

Porphyry: ALL 12 houses are NOT equal

What you mean by "equal" for the Porphyry system is that once the Asc and the Mc is established, through the space between them in the ecliptic at the moment/place of birth, then the houses are divided equally by 3 at that quandrant, and then from the Mc to the Dsc, again divided equally by 3; and so on until the Asc, keeping the axis of the Mc-Ic, and Asc-Dsc.

And the reason they are divided equally by 3, is because 3 is the number of the Spiritual Trinity Law, a natural law.

The result is: 1,2,3 houses are equal to 7,8,9. And the 4,5,6 houses are equal to 10,12,13.

I am making conclusions here from all the material I have read.
Am I correct? If not, I'd appreciate a lot if you can clarify myself.

Thank you
Mara

Mara


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Rad on Nov 24, 2016, 05:55 AM
Hi Mara,

Yes, you have got it all correct.

God Bless, Rad


Title: Re: House cusps / Porphyry
Post by: Mara on Nov 25, 2016, 08:34 AM
Hi Mara,

Yes, you have got it all correct.

God Bless, Rad

Thank you Rad
Mara