School of Evolutionary Astrology Forum

Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: Lucius on Jul 04, 2009, 12:44 AM

Title: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 04, 2009, 12:44 AM
The seven soul types were delved into in another post.  Could someone elucidate briefly what those types are and the chakras that correlate.  If I'm not mistaken this information was not on the original class tapes done in Arizona - ?  Or were they...if so, did Wolf not go into the other chakras/types, only mentioned Daemon?  At any rate, I'd appreciate it.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Rad on Jul 08, 2009, 12:14 PM
Hi Lucius,
The seven Soul types that Wolf talked about are reflected in the actual nature of each of the seven chakras. In other words, each chakra has a total nature that is specific to itself.

  Rad
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 08, 2009, 09:32 PM
Thanks Rad,
I do not have a VHS anymore & I didn't take the school while transcripts were part of the deal.  I do know that Wolf made correlations between chakras & planets (it seemed oriented to diagnosing health, am I remembering that right?) - does the chakra correlated with Jupiter also correlate with the Daemon archetype?  I cannot remember which chakra is 'ruled' by Jupiter - could you, or someone, refresh my memory - ?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Stacie on Jul 08, 2009, 10:38 PM
Hi Lucius,

The sacral chakra correlates with the daemon archetype (jupiter/neptune)

Here are planetary correlations for the 7 primary chakras:

Root:  Saturn/Uranus/Pluto
Sacral: Jupiter/Neptune
Solar Plexus: Mars/Pluto
Heart: Venus
Throat: Mercury
Brow/Third Eye: Sun/Moon
Crown: Neptune

Stacie
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 09, 2009, 12:54 PM
Hi to all,

The daemon archetype also includes Virgo and Gemini, which are ruled by Mercury, so to my way of thinking, that particular archetype is not exclusively correlated to the sacral plexus chakra. I do know for sure that not all daemon Souls are of the sacral 'Soul structure,' in terms of Soul 'identity.'

Rad or Deva, if you have any more information on this, I've always wanted to know more about this topic as well.

Love and blessings to everyone,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Stacie on Jul 09, 2009, 01:52 PM
Hi Lesley,

Glad you've jumped in!  Great points you bring to the table.  Indeed the 'totality of nature' is reflected in the natural mutable archetype: gemini, virgo, sagg, pisces...which is clearly intrinsic to the nature of the daemon soul: "fusion of human consciousness with the totality of nature".  I wonder if the root of the daemon archetype is contained in sagg....consciousness intrinsically defined by natural law... 

My understanding has always been that the daemon archetype has a core linkage to the sacral chakra, so this is an illuminating point you've brought up.  Looking forward to Rad and Deva's input!

Thanks for adding this to the discussion.  It's great to explore this archetype more in-depth.

Blessings,
Stacie
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 09, 2009, 03:26 PM
Hi Stacie!  :)  I hope you're feeling better these days, now that your work life has presented you a light at the end of the tunnel. Please keep us posted on how things progress in your journey. So many of us can relate to the struggles you wrote about in your recent thread: wanting to know and actualize Divine Will amid confusion as to what exactly that is at any given moment. It is still one of the most painful experiences I deal with on a day-to-day basis (...we with the 6th house placements, you know!...).

Oh, yeah -- back to the topic at hand!:...

I do totally understand how the sacral plexus, given its planetary rulerships, can be linked with the daemon archetype. I myself wonder if the daemon archetype sort of 'pre-exists,' relative to the 7 Soul structures/chakras, with one particular (of the 7) Soul structures/chakras becoming a mere 'overlay' for each individual daemon Soul, allowing the daemon archetype to manifest in many different ways: diversity itself being a Natural Law. (Does that make sense? I know what I want to say but can't find better words!)

I love to ponder these kinds of things...I too hope we can learn more with this thread.

Love and blessings to you, dear friend,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 09, 2009, 11:54 PM
I am confused myself on what precisely it means that there is a 'correlation' - so much so I can't even express what that confusion is!  ???

At any rate, it is interesting that the sound that correlates (this I do understand!) with the chakra is a flute.  The most famous flute player (aside from Krishna..and here in the southwest 'kokopelli') would be Pan - the half-goat half-man nature god roaming the forest with his pan-flute.  And, indeed, I have heard those flutes once in the forest!  Pan not only is a wisdom bearing figure in general, but quite specifically has a connection to the transformative aspects of sexuality, sexuality as a vehicle for spiritual fruition.  Pan, basically, would represent the spiritual laws & techniques hidden in the laws of nature itself.  The sign Sag itself has a satyr as it's archetype & it's easy enough to see the plain symbol of the arrow as being phallic/sexual. 
From what I understand the root of Daemon is indeed, astrologically speaking, Sag - but, to correlate a soul with the possibility of it being a Daemon soul the astrologer would take into account the mutable angles, I'm assuming because of the natural aspects being made (and mutable houses, of course).  I may have misunderstood that though.

I do hope we can get some illumination on these thoughts!  Thanks for your replies Lesley & Stacie!
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 10, 2009, 10:48 AM
Hi Lucius,

Yes, you're right that Sag is indeed the lead symbol for the dameon archetype, though the archetype itself does correspond to all mutable signs. (A correlation = a correspondence or connection between things.) It is not possible to know if one is a daemon Soul by using the birthchart alone; each individual Soul must be directly observed. Not all birthcharts with heavily emphasized mutable houses/signs will reflect a daemon Soul, but when the observed characteristics of any Soul are those of the daemon archetype, the 'mutability' will always be reflected in the birthchart through placements, rulerships, aspects, etc.

If you don't mind my asking you, where in the Southwest are you? I lived in southern Nevada for 17 years, and recently returned from an absolutely incredible, magical trip to Sedona, Arizona. Kokopelli is such a beloved symbol to me...few things bring me as much joy as simply contemplating him!

Love and blessings to you,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 10, 2009, 11:09 AM
Thanks for you reply - what you said is what I meant! LOL!  I have balsamic mercury conjunct Pluto in the 9th - forgive me - I need to work on expressing myself clearer, clearly!  It seemed you & Stacie were wondering about the astrological archetype of Daemon & how it relates to the other mutable signs....and I think the other signs are involved via aspect, if that makes sense. What I thought I'd expressed is, indeed, if you observe someones reality that seems to correlate to Daemon & the mutable archetypes are stressed in the chart there is a good chance that the soul-structure is Daemon.

If Jupiter rules sacral (along with Neptune) and Sag correlates with Daemon, then I would assume that Mercury rulerships of chakras would not be specifically correlated to the Daemon archetype - you said that other chakras may correlate, but, I'm guessing not (Rad, Devaor anyone know??)  However, it's interesting that Jupiter used to also rule Pisces - so, I do wonder about the correlation with the crown chakra - but, even if you could argue Jupiter may have an ancient correlation with the crown chakra I imagine it would still be the Pisces side of Jupiter rather than Sag.....hmmm - hope this makes sense!?   Examining the sacral chakra it makes sense that it correlates with the Daemon archetype to me.  But, we all are made 0f & experience the vibrational realities of the chakras and can have them activated or emphasized - in between my past live experiences, my chart & aura, etc. my throat chakra is certainly activated, for instance, entirely aside from my soul-structure.  Anyway, I'm looking forward to Rad or Deva's input here.

I'm in Taos in northern New Mexico.  I think Kokipelli correlates in the same archetypal fashion as does Pan (and for that matter Cerrunos & Pashupati).
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: adina on Jul 16, 2009, 01:23 PM
Hi Lucius et al,

A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (i.e., many years ago before Wolf retired and before I got sick), the correlations of the soul types (and paths to the Divine) with the chakras came to me, and then Wolf helped "tweaking" them. The info kind of remained right "there," so to speak, due much to circumstantial reality, and I'm still awaiting the next "download."  ;)  (I got a little pre-occupied with breathing - LITerally  :))   In the meantime, though, here's at least the correlations, along with the known yogic terms:

Root                    physical (body)/asanas - Hatha Yoga
Sacral                  sexuality - Daemon -    Tantra
Navel                   warrior - natural need to lead/leadership
Heart                   Devotion - Bhakti
Throat                  prayer/chanting (Mantra/Chanting) + service to others/healers (Karma)
Medulla/Ajna          wisdom - teacher types - Jyana
Crown                  avatar, guru - Raja

The soul types also correlate to the seven pathways to God. Since Neptune/Pisces represents the totality, the Universal, God, Goddess, etc., all paths, of course, astrologically speaking lead to Neptune/Pisces and in some way will involve the mutable grand cross of Gemini/Virgo/Sagitarrius/Pisces. There can also be kind of a "sub-type," or secondary soul type, i.e., one primary LEADING to the secondary. As with the Daemon soul, all the other soul types can only be known thru observation and correlation and then be backed up and/or revealed through the birth chart. For example, we can use my chart, which you can find in the thread for chart practice - Adina (and I'll repost the data here: Dec. 3, 1947; 4:10pm; Alliance, OH). I am a Bhakti soul - follow the path of devotion - with Jyana as the secondary type... i.e., devotion leading to wisdom. 

Hope this helps a little for now.

Blessings.

Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 16, 2009, 04:04 PM
Thank you Adina!  That does help.  Certain things are 'clicking' with me & your post gave my thoughts a nudge in the right direction.  I've been thinking a lot about the Daemon/sacral/tantra/flute archetypal qualities, etc. 

It's interesting, astrologically, Lucifer (bearer of light in this case, I need to keep my intentions straight) is just about to exactly conjunct my natal Mars in Gemini, which opposes Neptune, squares the sun & trines pluto/mercury - also, transiting Pholus is on my Neptune (of course activating the previously mentioned t-square) - perfect timing, as always in astro land.  Thanks again.

(I'd post a chart, but I'm using apple & can't figure it out....)

Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 16, 2009, 04:16 PM
Namaste Adina! Thank you so much for this information.

With regard to revealing the Soul structure through the birthchart, can you explain what it is in your chart that reveals you are a Bhakti Soul, with Jnana as your secondary characteristic? In my own observation, Bhakti often correlates with 4th house/Cancer types, and I see your Pluto/Saturn/Moon/Mars all there. The Jnana path could be represented with the SNode conj Mercury in 6th (interesting, as their ruler falls back in the 4th!).

Is it then appropriate to correlate houses, planets, and signs to the 7 Soul types? The Throat chakra, for example, through ruler Mercury, correlates to Karma yoga because of Mercury's rulership of Virgo, yes? So, in addition to direct observation, a chart with a heavy 6th house can reflect the Karma yoga path as a primary or secondary Soul structure...

I am so glad you mention the "secondary" thing, as I've always felt I'm more like two of the chakra types. Wolf once said that each of the 7 Soul structures have archetypes, the Amazon correlating with the Navel chakra, for instance...have you ever linked any specific archetypes to the 7 chakras?

I don't mean to overwhelm you with questions, I know you are deeply embedded in Spirit as you prepare for your transition. No need to reply if you are unable...as always, I send you all of my love, and wishes for sweet, happy days always.

Love and blessings to you,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 16, 2009, 05:44 PM
Hello again, Adina and all,

My little Virgo brain (Moon/SNode conj in 6th/Virgo, & Pluto rx in 6th/Virgo!) is gnawing away at this, and now I'm confused. The Heart chakra/Bhakti is ruled by Venus. So, perhaps Adina's Bhakti nature is seen in the Taurus ascendant, the Sun and its ruler in the 7th.

This question is for anyone with any ideas, opinions, or input: which path of yoga is assigned to the Navel chakra? It is the only one of the 7 without a correlation to a Yogic path.

This question, too, is open to anyone who would like to share or opine: although on one level it makes sense to me that the Daemon archetype is one of the specific 7 Soul structures, I have known Daemon souls who correlate with one of the other chakras besides the Sacral...I've seen Daemon Soul manifested in the Heart or the Navel chakra types, for example. The underlying identity in these cases was/is the Daemon archetype, but the Souls' nature(s) or characteristics have not always reflected the Sacral chakra and its nature/characteristics, even as a secondary influence.

Maybe I'm overthinking it...I just wonder if anyone else is, too? :)

Love and blessings to all,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: PamS on Jul 16, 2009, 06:00 PM
Hi all,

Hello to you dear adina, my hope is that you are well in your deep, deep process... big hug to you...!!

lesley,

yes im with you, I have to say I am a tad confused as how to differenciate these too?  My intuition says that you are insightful in terms of the daemon archetype being related to many chakras.  My knowledge of chakras come from different systems, specifically hindu/tantric so if possible could anyone expand on how to see these in relationship to a EA chart reading etc?  I know my reationship to chakras has a totally different take than EA......

thank you,

pam

Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 16, 2009, 09:14 PM
The issue I'm interested in & want to know if I am understanding correctly - there is a difference between soul 'path' and the actual structure of the soul, for instance, Daemon as a structure and tantra as a yogic path (albeit suited to a Daemon), correct - ?  Bhakti isn't just a chosen path of yoga, but, also an actual 'structure' to the soul - and so on for all the chakras?  This is where the notion of 'correlate' comes into play - that doesn't mean a simple equation, but an archetypal equation - not a limitation on the soul.

Regardless of structure, then, a soul can have various paths in it's expression or issues - ?  We all experience all of the chakras & according to life experiences some are or may need to be experienced, developed....hope this makes sense - ?  For instance, a daemon with issues in relation to expression may have a throat chakra expression/issue, etc.

Also, for instance, there are, from what I understand actual soul structures that correlate with the other chakras (not just 'paths', i.e., techniques, etc.) I assume there are soul structures that correlate with, for instance, the 'bhakti' archetype and heart chakra - what type of soul structure is this & what would be the manifestations/correlates we could make in delineating a chart to understand what the structure of the soul is?  What I'm trying to say is that I know for many of us here it is profoundly liberating to discover the 'daemon' archetype & to understand ourselves....so, how can we do this for other soul structures?  How can we make the observation/correlation as we do with Daemon with the other soul structures - ?

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Steve on Jul 16, 2009, 10:06 PM
QuoteHow can we make the observation/correlation as we do with Daemon with the other soul structures - ?

Hi - I make no claim to be an expert on this, but to me what it is, is God constructed various Souls in different ways - what we are talking about is the inherent nature of a Soul itself.  The paths - Bhakti, Jnana, Daemon, Raja, etc.  are not "chosen" - their orientation resonates with the way the Soul is constructed, thus one is simply going to feel most at home in an orientation that closely resonates with that Soul's inherent nature.  Its like picking clothing or how one decorates one's living space - those choices express the way one sees self - they are not the self but an expression of it.

The "structure of the Soul" is its inherent nature -  all the rest is expression.  The Soul gravitates to that which feels natural, right, to itself, no logic is really involved.  You simply know how you are put together.  That explains your attractions and orientations - that is the correlation - it is self-evident.  An orientation to this or that chakra is again an expression of the nature of a Soul.

If one is a creative person, one can gravitate to writing, or poetry, or music, or painting, or photography, or sculpture, or pottery, and on and on.  Why one and not the other?  And yes, most creative people will be drawn to more than one expression, but will choose to develop one or a few much more than others - I am saying that as analogy. 

Really the point is not to know about a range of paths.  The point of yoga is to move towards Home - to yoke (yoga) one's self to God, through one or a few of the orientations - those that resonate. What the other paths are about, past a certain point, is just intellectual facts.  It is helpful to understand various orientations when counseling others, to be able to grasp how a person is wired and what paths they might find most natural.  But in terms of one's self, we are the way we are, because we were made that way.
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 16, 2009, 10:20 PM
Thank you Steve.  So, a Daemon will orient toward tantra as a natural path to 'yoke' as you say ( and yogic tradition!) to source - ?  And a 'bhakti' to devotional, and 'anja' ,...etc.  Frankly, I do know how to 'tell' a Daemon soul but, not a bhakti, etc.  Just wondering how to help folks who have issues  when a soul structure archetype is explained they'll say,  'oh, that's why I feel that way!'.. and to see their lives & their charts and be able to help them understand issues - .as I know we Daemons here have benefited.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: ari moshe on Jul 16, 2009, 10:27 PM
im also a bit confused- the foundation im missing here is WHY are the astrological archetypes listed by adina correlated with the chakra/yogic path that they are? It does not seem to be related to the typical physiological associations of astrology (ie heart= sun, whereas here venus= bhakti path/heart chakra).

So basically, were does this come from? Is there an empirical basis for it?
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: adina on Jul 16, 2009, 10:29 PM
Steve, I think you explained this very well, at least from the way that I understand it too.

I would add that I only included the Yogic types because many of us are familiar with them, but the essence exists whether we use a term of yoga or not. If we use just the other description, we have, for example, a nature-based soul (Daemon), or a devotional soul (Bhakti), or a soul whose essence is service (work) - as in service to others. It's thru the essence of that which it is (has been created) that the soul comes to realize God... i.e., the path. In other words, what you inwardly feel and relate to, as Steve explained, is both the essence and the path - you both feel it and do it.

Lucius, a Daemon soul will ALSO orient toward a path in which it "fuses with nature," as Wolf used to put it. It becomes one with nature itself, can communicate with nature.  Again, I think you'll be able to identify the soul structure of a client through your interaction with them, just like the evolutionary stage. Then you can take it from there. Sometimes - as many of us found out - it DOES take more than one reading, one appointment with someone to be sure of an evolutionary stage, and therefore the soul type as well. New Age lingo is so pervasive these days that it can sometimes take a little time to separate who's got the vocabulary and who has the inner orientation.
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: adina on Jul 16, 2009, 10:57 PM
Ari, the confusion may lie in the fact that in the birth chart, you're right, the Sun/Leo relate to the heart, but that's the heart as an organ, or as you said, physiological. And we're talking chakras (energy) here. The root of what we're talking about lies in Hinduism. The Chakra System itself has different correlations from the astrological ones. I myself learned these correlations from both Swami Kriyananda and Wolf, and again, they are rooted in the Hindu system of astrology. (Kriyananda, however, does not use the outer planets--Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto). Yogananda also speaks of these correlations in his book, "Autobiography of a Yogi," i.e., that these spinal centers correlate to the astrological signs.
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Steve on Jul 16, 2009, 11:49 PM
The translation of  the word "yoga" from Sanskrit to English is "to yoke" - meaning a path that if followed yokes one's self to God.  The various paths exist and each has appeal to different types of Souls.  They all originate from Source.  They are all intended to pull us Home.  As taught in the Indian spiritual paths, hatha yoga is mainly practiced to train the body to be able to sit still for extended periods of meditation.  I believe it's not considered to be a path that leads to realization in and of itself.  Rather, preparation.

QuoteSo, a Daemon will orient toward tantra as a natural path to 'yoke' as you say ( and yogic tradition!) to source - ?  And a 'bhakti' to devotional, and 'anja' ,...etc.

yes, except I would rephrase "will orient" to "naturally tend to orient", because there are no hard and fast rules in life - each Soul is unique, and has its own past and thus long standing attractions.

QuoteFrankly, I do know how to 'tell' a Daemon soul but, not a bhakti, etc.  Just wondering how to help folks who have issues  when a soul structure archetype is explained they'll say,  'oh, that's why I feel that way!'.. and to see their lives & their charts and be able to help them understand issues - .as I know we Daemons here have benefited.

That is a good example of the very point I was making before - we are here to concentrate on our own path, FIRST.  To know it well.   Think about it - perhaps part of the reason some Souls have taken on counseling others is because to do a good job of counseling requires one to expand beyond one's personal orientations, to come to understand the way that others are wired, even others whose natural wiring may be quite different than my own.  This expansion then helps me learn a broader, and less personal, orientation to things - thus my own evolution. 

That is some of the value I see in this present discussion.  We have Souls of various orientations gathered here - we can learn from each other through each expressing our natural orientations to things.  Like the blind men and the elephant, except the blind men have decided they want to see again, so they open their eyes.

Ari (and others) here is a chakra diagram I believe originated in an old book of Jeffrey's called Uranus: Freedom From The Known.  The EA chakra correlations, that I'd call spiritual correlations, came from Jeffrey's inner intuition and insight.

We can also include in this discussion thoughts about this diagram, and why things are stated there as they are.   There's not a right or wrong about it - seeing the value in this system doesn't negate other systems that may correlate differently.  These things are symbolic.  Astrology, and life, is observation and correlation - there can be symbolic systems that, looked at from the outside, appear to be in conflict, yet they still come up with similar conclusions.  As has been said before, any system rooted in natural law is going to conclude pretty similarly to the conclusions of any other system rooted in natural law. 

The importance to me is this diagram comes from the heart of what EA is about.  If we put ourselves into pondering Why it is as it is, it can deepen our insights into how EA looks at things, and why.

(http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/images/astro_chakras.jpg)
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 17, 2009, 09:33 AM
Thank you for your time & clarification, Steve & Adina...greatly appreciated  :-*
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: ari moshe on Jul 17, 2009, 03:07 PM
given that there is a natural correlation between physiology and the chakras, how can their astrological associations be different? physiology manifests from energy right? Another way of asking this question is- what is the practical use of this information- meaning does it apply to diagnosis in anyway?

sorry if im still missing the obvious!
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: adina on Jul 17, 2009, 03:41 PM
No need to be sorry at all, Ari. You're asking good questions. The physiological has to do (obviously) with the physical body and the traditional astrological correlations that you're referring to. The astrological associations to the chakras correlate to the energy body, or the astral body. The illustration that Steve posted shows the flow OF that energy thru the nadis, or passageways, thru which it travels. Again, all this is based in traditional Hindu teachings.  :)

And yes, there absolutely ARE medical (diagnostic) correlations for the chakra correlated planets/signs. All this information was included in the first segment of the EA DVD course, and also in his book, Uranus: Freedom of the Known, I believe, which is unfortunately out of print. When you combine the chakra system with the traditional medical associations, you have an exquisitely complete system to diagnose medical issues. For example, think of how much more information you would have regarding the heart if you used Venus, by house, sign and aspect, along WITH the Sun and it's house, sign, and aspect. There's so MUCH information that it's just not practical to try to include it here, but I hope his at least gives you some idea of the value of using the chakra correlations. Please do feel free to ask more questions about this.

If you're interested in learning more, Ari, there's also a transcript available of a workshop Wolf did called "Astrology and the Chakra System." Steve just posted a list of these here on the forum. I'm not sure what all is included, but it would be a nice inexpensive way for you to begin exploring this further.  :)
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Steve on Jul 17, 2009, 03:51 PM
Ari, the following is quoted from Wolf's 1994 Pluto School transcript.

QuoteThe reason to understand the chakra system, particularly with respect to medical diagnosis, is that it has a whole different astrological scheme of correlation, different from the traditional correlation of anatomy and physiology.  It is a supplement or complement to that traditional analysis.  It will reveal on a diagnostic level, information that you could not otherwise be able to determine in traditional methods of astro-medical diagnosis.  Let us start with the traditional correlations.

here he describes Sun through Pluto

QuoteNow, when you combine the above with the chakra system, you will have a complete way of creating an absolutely correct diagnosis.  For example, if you have a client with all kinds of problems in their stomach, and you are looking in that chart, the nature of the Moon and the planetary ruler of the 4th etc., and there does not seem to be any particular problem.  But going to the chakra system you suddenly find the whole middle region of the body correlates with Mars and Pluto, and now if we re-look at that birth chart and see Mars and Pluto in opposition...!  So basically this is a support system to the other system.

My thoughts are, using medicine as an analogy, sometimes "alternative" medical techniques heal something that traditional medicine can't.  At other times western medicine works and alternative treatments don't.  They are two systems whose nature is somewhat at odds.  Yet we have empirical proof of what I said - they both work at times.  Similarly, we have two sets of astrological correlations.  Our brains may want to say that one must be right and the other not.  Yet they both work at times. Once again, proof that life is not pure logic.
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 18, 2009, 10:10 AM
Hi to all,

I am still meditating on this, and I'm wondering if the limbs of yoga could also be understood/applied as follows. Karma yoga (path of action) can be correlated to the Solar Plexus, as this is the seat of action/will. Bhakti, of course, correlates with the Heart chakra. (To me, Bhakti could also correlate with the Sacral plexus; Venus, ruler of Heart, has its higher octave Neptune in the Sacral plexus' rulership, along with Jupiter -- and in Ayurveda, these are all Kapha planets: love). The throat chakra would correlate to Jnana: discrimination (Mercury), wisdom, as the throat chakra is also about intuition and 'higher' truths/messages.

My thinking-out-loud here is based on nothing more than my own insights and observations...maybe even those evolve over time, as the observer herself evolves? I'm sure that is so. The chakra system as a whole is such a beautiful manifestation of Natural Law...maybe I'll give the correlation thing a rest for a while and meditate on this miracle of energy running through each and every one of us instead. Inductive knowledge will come (can only come) in this way.  :)

Love and blessings to all,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Rad on Jul 18, 2009, 11:05 AM
Hi,
One thing to remember about the chakras is that they do correlate, anatomically speaking, to what are called the spinal plexuses. And these spinal plexuses have nerve that emanate from them to the various areas of the body that are linked to each one of these spinal plexus. In other words, the chakras are not just energy centers, they are indeed actual places in the physical body. This is why it is important to understand the astrological correlations to these spinal plexus and the corresponding physiology and anatomy that connects to them. As Adina said they combination of the traditional correlations with the chakra correlations can indeed produce an very detailed and accurate system leading to correct diagnosis of what is going on within the body.

Rad
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 18, 2009, 12:04 PM
Hi all,

On the topic of astrology and anatomy, I found the most interesting website: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-information/degree-anatomical-correlations.php

The information here links each of the 360 degrees with a different place on the body. It is so dead-on for myself, when I look up the degrees of my own natal planets, I thought I'd post the link here if anyone else wants to check it out. This list is truly amazing, at least in my own case...!

Love and blessings,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: ari moshe on Jul 18, 2009, 01:42 PM
this is great- so, here's a real life example.

the past few days the sun and mercury have been squaring my pluto venus. while anatomically my pluto venus has nothing to do with the heart, i have been feeling a lot in my heart chakra! (ie intense feelings of love, of sadness- all emanating from that center). if i get heart issues ever i can look at my sun and also look at my venus and learn a whole lot.

in the example you posted steve, while mars and pluto rules the middle region of the body, thus explaining the stomoch health issues, it MUST also mean that the diagnosis and the nature of the stomach issues is completley different than typical moon 4th house cancer stomach issues- bc it arises from a different aspect of consciousness.





Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 19, 2009, 09:19 AM
Hi, Ari and all (...I am endlessly fascinated by this topic!),

In my own way of looking at it -- and of course, this is just me -- I don't think of health issues reflected by 'traditional' planetary rulerships, and health problems reflected in the EA correlation/rulerships of the chakras, as manifesting from a different aspect of consciousness. The same 'aspect' of consciousness creates illness, whether we look at it from traditional planetary correlations or EA correlations. The Western way of picking the body apart piece by piece and analyzing each part as if a whole in itself is quite different than the holistic view of the body via the chakra system. But both the chakra system (and the EA planetary correlations to it) and the traditional rulership paradigm can and do reflect the one and same consciousness that is animating the body and thus creating disease or health. Using both together is, as Steve implied in an earlier post, of most value (there is merit in each system, but each is enhanced when used in conjunction with the other).

Regarding chakra archetypes, I've unearthed some notes I took from a book I read years ago, called "Chakras and Their Archetypes," by Ambika Wauters. She correlates the chakras with the following archetypes:

Root chakra = Mother
Sacral chakra = Empress/Emperor
Solar Plexus chakra = Warrior
Heart chakra = Lover
Throat chakra = Communicator
Brow chakra = Intuitive
Crown chakra  = Guru

Just one more angle from which to view this topic...perhaps a little more 'food for thought' for anyone (like me!) so interested in this subject.

Love and blessings to all,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Linda on Jul 21, 2009, 03:55 AM
Hi,

Jeff says:  The Soul is an immutable consciousness that has its own individuality or identity that remains intact from life to life.  The Soul manifests a personality in each lifetime, and each personality relates directly to the evolutionary necessities of the Soul.

Is the soul limited to the seven soul types symbolized by the planets in our solar system? 

Could the seven soul types relate to the evolutionary necessities of the soul?

Why do I feel that the definition of the Soul goes beyond this solar system?
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Rad on Jul 21, 2009, 12:34 PM
Hi Linda,

Quote from: Linda on Jul 21, 2009, 03:55 AM
Hi,

Jeff says:  The Soul is an immutable consciousness that has its own individuality or identity that remains intact from life to life.  The Soul manifests a personality in each lifetime, and each personality relates directly to the evolutionary necessities of the Soul.

Is the soul limited to the seven soul types symbolized by the planets in our solar system? 

************************************************************************

That is true as long as the Soul manifests itself within this Solar System .... In other words there would be reasons for the Soul to manifest itself in this Solar System that correlate to it's own evolutionary and karmic requirements. And thus the seven Soul types.

*************************************************************************

Could the seven soul types relate to the evolutionary necessities of the soul?

*************************************************************************

Yes ..................

*************************************************************************

Why do I feel that the definition of the Soul goes beyond this solar system?

*************************************************************************

Because, in the end, the Soul is about the individualized consciousness Created by what we call God/ess. And, thus, it is as vast as that God/ess itself. The vastness reflects the totality of that which has been Created in the first place. And it is that vastness that goes so far beyond the limitations unique to each form within that Creation, including the form of the Solar System we, all of us, are currently within.




Rad
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 21, 2009, 12:43 PM
That is a succinct, as always, quote from Wolf!  I think  you're second question was a bit of confusion for me too.  From what I understand the inherent structure of the soul correlates with one of the chakras - and as Steve pointed out each chakra correlates with a bottom-line, natural path  - for instance, the Daemon soul structure will naturally gravitate toward Tantra & nature, & the vibrational/light reality of the sacral.  Personalities are assumed & shed life to life in keeping with it's desires & evolution - but, the structure remains the same.  This reality is maintained, vibrationally & via 'light', through the realities inherent in the chakra system (by the grace of God) - so, we all experience all of the chakras & they are doorways.  I think it's here that, at least my mind, gets too linear in it's thinking.  Just as the zodiac has correlations, archetypes and symbols & one can assimilate that without being too literal & allowing intuition to flow this chakra/soul structure needs that 'flow', too.

This type of reality is 'made of' the vibrational realities of the chakra structures, so it makes sense that soul-structures would correlate to these.  Perhaps the structure is inherent even outside these realities, when experiencing these realities there is a 'lens' or necessary structure - for instance, a human body....so, perhaps the chakras are like a lens or, like the structure of light that can break down into a rainbow prism.

Yogananda's commentary on the Bhagavad Gita has plenty of words on the chakras - if you have this book luckily, as you know there's an index!  If you don't have it - get it!   :)
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 21, 2009, 12:45 PM
Thanks Rad! 
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 21, 2009, 05:26 PM
Rad, thank you so much for the clarification. I had been under the mistaken assumption that a Soul's 'structure' or chakra archetype was part of the 'Soul's ego' that Wolf talked about: the inherent individual ego of the Soul beneath its manifested egos in each life.

The idea that a Soul can take on any of the 7 different 'structures' or chakra types in each life makes so much more intuitive sense!...Thank you too, Linda, for your post of questions that helped demystify this topic.

Love and blessings to you both,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 21, 2009, 06:23 PM


I didn't think that Rad or Wolf were saying that a soul can take on any of the seven structures - I thought the structure was inherent even though the immutable consciousness that is a soul is ultimately much vaster than any paticular relativistic time/space reality as is God/dess itself.  I.e., a Daemon soul is a Daemon soul is a Daemon soul from the moment of it's creation from Source.  Or are we saying here that the soul each incarnation will correlate to a different structure/chakra each lifetime, if necessary?  So, a Daemon soul for awhile, as necessary, then, Bhakti, etc. - ?

Second - I thought the general idea is the soul has inherent identity and the ego is the created personality life to life that dissolves back into the soul....?

Oh, dear, thought I understood now, not so sure!  Egads!!  Help.  ;D

Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Linda on Jul 21, 2009, 06:55 PM
Rad, Lucius and Lesley:

Your answers and thoughts make perfect sense.

Lesley, I've looked at the information you posted linking each of the 360 degrees with a different place on the body:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-information/degree-anatomical-correlations.php

As Wolf correlates chakras and planets to diagnosing health, what a shock to discover that my Neptune 2.31 deg Scorpio conjunct Ascendant exactly correlates to a health condition I have.  

Lucius, I also look forward to learning the answers to your most recent queries!

Personally, I think a Soul is created by God/ess to reflect the vastness of creation (and not to reflect one of the seven soul types).  But due to the evolutionary necessity that a Soul continue to grow for God/ess' own purposes, it necessarily adopts one (plus sub-type) of the seven soul types of our particular solar system.   

But of course I'll wait to see what Rad says!

Thanks,
Linda
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 21, 2009, 07:58 PM

Your quote Linda:"Personally, I think a Soul is created by God/ess to reflect the vastness of creation (and not to reflect one of the seven soul types)"  I agree completely!  I would add there is natural law, and inherent truths - the structure of reality, natural reality reflects the divine...

Let me think outloud a little:  I thought the structure was inherent not something we 'choose', but when we are in these types of reality the soul-structure correlates with certain archetypes and out of necessity & natural law is expressed within those terms.....but, I may have completely misunderstood!  What is being said here is that the soul chooses a needed structure in a similar fashion as it 'chooses' an ego-personality life to life - ?

For instance, from what I've read Stacie here is a Daemon soul - I assumed millenia ago she was & millenia hence she will be, etc. as a soul identity it is who she is, to fulfill her desires she creates various ego life after life as she evolves back to Source - but as a spark of god/dess she is the Source, utimately(as are we all)....& part of the wounding to said souls is that their inherent nature has been degraded & maligned as evil quite literally, etc. and so there are major issues of masochism, for instance. 

Of course, this is all relative & terminology - we are all the Source ultimately.  However, we do find ourselves here & there our natural laws that reflect god/dess & I'd just like to understand better!

Maybe a good way to understand this, for me at least, is how even a soul such as Jesus needs to have an ego-consciousness in this reality despite the soul level of evolution relative to these realities - it's simply the natural law that correlates to these realities...thus the soul-structure is expressed similarly - it isn't totally defined by these realities but it will express it's nature/desires within these structures - even as Jesus, from what I understand, was/is a Daemon soul but his ego-personality was assumed for that life....
I simply thought the soul-structure was inherent not 'chosen'...ok, so I hope I make some sense! :)
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Steve on Jul 21, 2009, 08:05 PM
To me, its not so much a Soul "choosing" a Soul Type as a Soul simply inherently resonates in a way where it finds itself naturally aligned with a particular way of looking at life that we then correlate with a Soul Type.  

Each Soul has a very ancient past - billions of choices have been made along the way, in all the forms of life expressions that a Soul has appeared in since beginning its separated existence.  All those choices over all that time have created an inherent character, nature.  This is so fundamental and so ancient that this nature is not going to drastically change in any (what we would call) short period of time

Over eons of time that nature evolves, refines itself, becomes purer expression of its essence, Source.  But I can't see it turning into something that is completely unrelated to what it has been to date.  Thus the basic underlying Soul Type attraction while in human form is not really going to change very much.  Its how a Soul is wired.
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 21, 2009, 11:33 PM
Thanks Steve.  I think I understand what you're saying....& it makes sense.  After I posted that last convoluted post I was thinking back to the first Pluto school & I sure wish I had the transcripts.  I think I'm surprised because I was certain that Wolf had said that the soul-structure was inherent from god/dess, each soul certainly a unique creation, but that there were inherent structures & that, for instance Daemon (I go back to this because it's the only soul-structure talked about in the school & mentioned frequently in EA) souls were a particular soul-structure.  I did not get the impression that it was a structure within these realities that a soul would then resonate with once incarnating.....

I'll have to whip out Yogananda's Bhagavad Gita because I'm certain just recently he was saying the soul is endowed with a distinct identity- I can see a 'type' or structure as well as it being unique...as every human being is, for instance.

Aside or in conjunction with these thoughts is when I can get boggled by what precisely is evolving - it seems it's an exhaustion of desires & then to return, rediscover or realize what one is inherently and was all along - and it is that aspect that is timeless, changeless yet it would seem there is still structure - the soul in & of itself is a structure but it is the inherent consciousness that makes it 'alive' & that precise quality is god/dess itself.....

to put it a little simpler - the soul is progressively becoming conscious of what it's nature is: god/dess. 
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 22, 2009, 12:03 AM
Another thing I just recalled is Wolf saying the Daemon soul origins, or 'home', I can't remember the precise word he used now - but, at any rate, something to do with Sirius and/or the Pleiades.....someone have their VHS/DVD/transcript handy - ?
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 22, 2009, 12:10 AM
Well, I downloaded again (fried laptop with coffee a few weeks back) the old message board - Wolf specifically states Sirius 'the home from which the Daemon manifests' & links it to the ancient space folks, etc.
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 22, 2009, 12:16 AM
Me again!  Here's a quote from the old board in answer to this question:

Daemon Souls Regarding the term 'daemon soul' does this refer to a state of soul evolution through which everyone passes, or is it a specific kind of 'soul
identity' inherent from the time of iniitial separation from the source? Leslie  

WOLF: it is a special kind of soul, its own identity... not all souls are daemon... all souls, at some point though, do enter the stage of deconditioning from all that which is not natural, natural laws Jeffrey

I always assumed Wolf meant an identity prior to & aside from time/space realities since the question specifically stated an identity since separation from source.....

up too late - found another quote from JWG about Daemons he says to a question about whether it has to do with evolutionary condition and if a soul can 'undo' being Daemon to which he replies, 'Jeffrey: no, it is just the soul type or signature .. from it's inception'
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 22, 2009, 09:16 AM
Hi, everyone -- what a great discussion!

Linda, your words reflect exactly the way I've always thought of this:

Quote from: Linda on Jul 21, 2009, 06:55 PM

Personally, I think a Soul is created by God/ess to reflect the vastness of creation (and not to reflect one of the seven soul types).  But due to the evolutionary necessity that a Soul continue to grow for God/ess' own purposes, it necessarily adopts one (plus sub-type) of the seven soul types of our particular solar system.   


(P.S. -- How about that link of anatomical correlations!  :) It nailed not only a lot of health issues I have, but many in my family/clients as well.)

Steve, your words also reflect perfectly my own understanding of this subject up to this point:

Quote from: Steve on Jul 21, 2009, 08:05 PM
To me, its not so much a Soul "choosing" a Soul Type as a Soul simply inherently resonates in a way where it finds itself naturally aligned with a particular way of looking at life that we then correlate with a Soul Type...the basic underlying Soul Type attraction while in human form is not really going to change very much.  It's how a Soul is wired.


It was when I read Rad's reply to Linda that I started thinking otherwise:

Quote from: Rad on Jul 21, 2009, 12:34 PM

Could the seven soul types relate to the evolutionary necessities of the soul?

*************************************************************************

Yes ..................


Because the evolutionary necessities of any Soul are not 'linear,' and can and do shift focus from life to life (within the overall intention to ultimately reunite with the Source/God), I deduced from that answer that perhaps a Soul can resonate with/reflect a different chakra depending upon the evolutionary intentions of the current or given life. If one 'chakra' goes out of balance, it quite often has the result of creating imbalance in other chakras as well...thereby requiring concentration or focus on more than one chakra over the vast evolutionary experience of the Soul. (...Or not?  :))

This would explain why the Daemon archetype would, in my view -- this is only my understanding -- 'precede' whatever Soul structure/chakra archetype is observed through the current-life ego.

It may sound really corny, but I thank God'dess we have this thread going, because I have always wondered about this and am truly grateful for an opportunity to better understand the concept.

Love and blessings to all,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 22, 2009, 10:54 AM
Thanks for your thoughts Lesley!  I started to regret starting this thread!  Here I was just wondering what other soul structures incarnate in these types of realities & what their specific abilities/lessons/gifts were & then it seemed to get complicated quick.  :)

I stayed up late & read just about all about Daemon from the message boards & feel I understand what's being said.  The soul having a structure/identity doesn't preclude having any number or any infinite possibilty of experience while cruising the universe - it's just a root identity which is part of natural law - form/structure, etc. even at a soul-level.  This doesn't mean I can't go to my laya yoga & experience the chakras, their archetypes, etc & be transformed & widened from that experience but it wouldn't change my actual soul-structure.  Also there are natural laws with regard to evolution itself - there is the 'avatar' soulstructure (for lack of any other term) this doesn't mean we don't all reach the point in these realities where we are a 'pure' conduit for god/dess, etc. It makes sense to me that there is an inherent soul structure/identity even as we evolve & expand our consciousness.

However, I'd like to understand what you mean by the Daemon precluding soul-structure - I'm confused because JWG says clearly that Daemon is the soulstructure - ? Again, we all experience & are encased, really, in the chakras - I think this is where too linear thinking comes in, the structure is a root identity it doesn't stop any soul from experiences other realities, evolving, etc.  I presume a 'bhakti' soul could learn to communicate with plants, etc. (and as JWG says all souls will have to decondition from unnatural laws) & a daemon could develop skills associated with other soul-structures, but the inherent identity is not lost or 'undone' as a poster once asked of JWG.  But - maybe I'm not understanding what you mean?

I would add, that I for instance, may be a daemon identity, but I certainly have a body & chakras correlate with the astral energies working with the physical componets of the body - so, I as we all have them operating & I as we all have had plenty of lives to have all sorts of issues - one of which has to do with communicating & all the lovely crap that can go along with that ( I had a fantasy when young that I'd move somewhere where no one knew me & pretend I was a mute just not to have to speak!  :D ) - and my throat chakra is activated on a physiological level & in our good aura pictures there is a deep blue, large circle of light emanating from that chakra.....so, issues there, despite root identity of daemon.

So, I think, in a way we're saying the same thing....? Aside from the fact I don't know what you mean by daemon precludes soul-structure.

I'm enjoying this thread, too!  I have some ideas on the other chakras I may post later.....I'd appreciate more of your thoughts Lesley!  :) 
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Rad on Jul 22, 2009, 11:24 AM
Hi,
I think it is important to remember that the Soul has not created itself. What we call God/ess is the origin of all things. Thus the origin of all Souls. And each Soul does have it's own unique nature correlating with the seven soul types that correlate to the time/space/gravitational reality of this Solar System: Earth. Thus, the inherent nature of the Soul created by God/ess is not something that can change. It is intrinsic. And, of course, it's also true that any given soul type does and will experience all the other chakras along it's progressive evolutionary journey. Yet it is the intrinsic orientation, as defined by it's unique Soul type, that the Soul will be orientated to the nature of each of the chakras. So just as Lucius is saying over and over, and rightly so, a Daemon Soul is always a Daemon Soul that can not change because all Souls unique nature has been created by God/ess, not itself. Thus, the Daemon Soul, or any other Soul Type, necessarily will experience all the other chakras it's the orientation defined by the Soul's inherent typing that defines the orientation to those other chakras.

Rad
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 22, 2009, 12:29 PM
How I wish we were all sitting around a table and talking about this! I wish I could bring you all to my local coffee shop for a long conversation about the chakras.

Rad, thank you so much for this clarification:

Quote from: Rad on Jul 22, 2009, 11:24 AM
any given soul type does and will experience all the other chakras along its progressive evolutionary journey. ...the Daemon Soul, or any other Soul Type, necessarily will experience all the other chakras: it's the orientation defined by the Soul's inherent typing that defines the orientation to those other chakras.

Rad

I think I'm finally starting to wrap my busy head around this now.

Lucius, please don't regret starting this thread!  :) When they take on a life of their own, like this one seems to have done, I think it's always for the better. I hope you continue to post about the chakras -- I love reading your thoughts and words too (each chakra indeed reflects its own "lovely crap," as you so succinctly put it!  :) ), and we definitely have the same view of the Daemon Soul as created by God'dess.

With regard to what I wrote about my belief that the Daemon archetype 'precedes' any chakra overlay, happily Rad came along and used better words to explain what I was trying to say. I've known a Daemon Soul to reflect the Heart chakra archetype -- a very loving, yin-oriented (not to use another label, but just for the sake of description) Soul devoted to nurturing and sustaining balance on and within the Earth...and I've known a Daemon Soul to reflect the solar plexus chakra -- a yang-oriented consciousness focused on actively defending Nature and Earth from ongoing distortion and destruction. Each individual Daemon Soul approached life and responded to personal experiences in these different ways, though beneath those different approaches and responses to life, both were clearly reflecting the Daemon archetype itself: a true identity rooted in Nature Itself.

My own musings on this subject are clearly a work in progress!...by this point I have come to understand this phenomenon in the following way. (Rad, please feel free to correct any of this if you see fit...I am deeply grateful for any guidance.)

First, the Soul identity as created by God (such as Daemon). Thus the basic identity or first cause, in this example, is the Daemon archetype/identity. On top of that Soul identity, comes a chakra 'overlay' -- natural proclivities of the Soul that can be correlated with one of the 7 chakras. (As noted in my example/contrast above.)

On top of THAT, but also rooted within and based upon the natural proclivities of the Soul, is a chosen or appropriate path the Soul can take to know God: bhakti yoga, karma yoga, jnana yoga, et al. I think any Soul can utilize any of the many yogic paths to God, but one path will probably be easier for any Soul depending upon natural characteristics placed within that Soul by God'dess at the moment of Creation.

I want to thank everyone for letting me think out loud throughout this thread, and for helping me to better understand this phenomenon. If you're ever all in northern California at the same time, coffee is on me!  :)

Love and blessings to everyone,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Rad on Jul 22, 2009, 05:28 PM
Hi Lesley,
  Perfect way to understand it Lesley ......... yeah.

Rad
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lucius on Jul 23, 2009, 12:22 AM
I was just looking at the eclipse chart from yesterday - wow....right on my natal Saturn & the Jup/chiron retro in AQ I have natally at 24 Aries...so, sextile that & throwing Neptune in & throwing that into squaring my nodes & opposing my venus....anyway - the whole post on the chakras seems to have done something deep within me that is, of course, perfectly attuned synchronistically with the stars & I wanted to thank you all for your insights & pushing me over the edge in a positive way!   :)
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lesley on Jul 23, 2009, 09:11 AM
Lucius, I'm right there with you...this thread has helped me in so many ways.

Rad, thank you very much for your kind feedback, and for guiding us along the way!

God'dess bless,
Lesley
Title: Re: Seven soul types
Post by: Lia on Jul 30, 2009, 05:27 PM
Hi Everyone,

just wanted to say, this is a fantastic thread, thanks for everyone contributing! Thanks Rad for the clarity!



P.S. I won't be around internet for a while (going on a holiday, yeepie!! ;D)


Blessings to everyone,

Lia