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Discussion => Evolutionary Astrology Q&A => Topic started by: ari moshe on Sep 30, 2009, 12:17 AM



Title: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 30, 2009, 12:17 AM
Quote
nothing is 'cursed' or fated for eternity unless a soul has made a conscious contract with evil... jeffrey
- page 164 ea message board archives

what in the world does jeffrey mean when he talks about evil? if a soul makes a conscious contract with evil it's possible to be fated for eternity- what does that mean? i think i once saw an article of his on evil, anyone know where that is?





Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Sep 30, 2009, 08:05 AM
Quote
nothing is 'cursed' or fated for eternity unless a soul has made a conscious contract with evil... jeffrey

- page 164 ea message board archives

what in the world does jeffrey mean when he talks about evil? if a soul makes a conscious contract with evil it's possible to be fated for eternity- what does that mean? i think i once saw an article of his on evil, anyone know where that is?

Hi Ari,

  Good idea for a thread! I too am interested in where this one goes, as well.

  Here is a link on this same website:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/articles/the-nature-of-evil

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Sep 30, 2009, 08:21 AM
Hi Ari,

Well, like Stephen said, good idea for a thread, and the timing is quite propitious as well, especially in relation to the chart of the U.S. Lucifer is currently at 29 Gemini, and will dip into Cancer briefly before retrograding at 0 Cancer on Oct. 22. It will stay in Gemini until April 28, 2010, keeping in mind that Gemini rules the media, the dissemination of information.  ::)

First, evil itself - in a world of duality - is simply the opposite of "good"/God. Just as we have night/day, male/female, etc., so we also have good/evil, with evil represented in astrology by the asteroid Lucifer. Evil was part of the manifested creation from the beginning, as nothing cannot exist that does not come from God/Source, so evil, too, came from that same source. And because of the duality, we could not know God withOUT evil.

We COULD characterize evil as anything that separates us from God, because it does happen to manifest through our separating desires. But it can take many forms.

What Wolf meant by not being able to break the contract with evil for eternity is until God/dess itself reaches its own "perfection."  Until there is no more need for the manifested creation. The bottom line reason that the contract can NOT be broken is that MOST of us would make that contract if it could be broken. We'd make it to get that "temporary fix"--whatever thing, relationship, or type of power we were desiring. We'd make it to get what we wanted, beCAUSE we could later say, "OK, I'm done now." And, as Wolf pointed out on more than one occasion, it just doesn't work that way, for the reasons given.

Before I or anyone else moves forward with a further explanation of evil--because it is a HUGE topic--what all have you read about it, Ari? Is the info you referenced in your question the only exposure you have to the topic of Lucifer/Evil so far?  Wolf did several lectures and an all-day workshop on evil many years ago, and there are a LOT of questions on the old message board, so I just wanted a feel for what you know before providing too little or too much information.  :)


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Sep 30, 2009, 03:53 PM
Hey Adina, It's great to see you back on the mb. your blogs are REALLY inspiring.
thanks for the article site stephan

I'm going to research the sources on this site/old mb some more and i'll get back if/when there are more q's.



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lia on Oct 01, 2009, 04:36 PM
Hi Everyone,

Sounds like a timely topic, as Adina said...
I just wanted to add a little as a general rule of thumb: astrologically speaking apart of lucifer's placement (which is the specific ways or weakest point for each of us to be influenced by evil) it is also scorpio, pluto and 8th house which correlates to evil within the chart...reason being evil (of course) tries to entrap/enslave (scorpio) the soul (pluto)....so the soul's natural desire nature is actually prone to evil....the soul itself as an individualised consciousness subject to the duality of creation so subject to the influence of evil...
This is true for each and every soul NO EXCEPTION....as for making a contract with evil is a very different and kind of 'special' scenario and takes a conscious act to make that contract....as the old saying  'sold its soul to the devil' it literally means just that....entering into a contract for something in return...that something is the power of evil....

It can not be seen in a chart that's also important to know...in some cases can be SUSPECTED but without the actual reality and the physical presence of the person it can not be known....the only 'sign' is the eyes according to Jeffrey...closly looking into the eyes such eyes will try to 'shut' down as to prevent the observer to see what's behind it...so the pupils will become vertical like cat eyes...

According to Jeffrey only about 3-5 % of the human population is in that unreversible condition, having made that horrible contract....some are unfortunately having great powers on our human world...

As Adina said the contract cant be broken and for the reasons she explained ....
I believe most of us were shocked at the first place that there can be such contract that can't be broken within the infinity of creation....as for me the more I thought about it the clearer it became to me why such law exists.....I could understand it in a way that deep inside all souls know intuitively that the Source/God/Goddess is one side within the duality of the manifested creation and choosing the other side consciously and deliberately for whatever reason must happen from the depth of the soul and must have the consequences also on that level...the depth of the soul....

One of the major themes about the archetype of scorpio, pluto and 8th house is choice making....so that's too why it correlates to evil, the ultimate choice between good/god and evil.....temptation is also scorpio/pluto/8th house....and that's how evil works....of course all this is based on our perception of being a separate entity from the rest of creation...that too is pluto...so all this comes back in full circle, evil can exist only as long as there is a belief/perception of separation...from each other, from the rest of creation and from the Source....all of which is illusionary in effect...so evil's existence is based upon the existence of the illusion of separation within the human consciousness.......

Which has been literally marginal within natural societies and extremely emphasised within patriarchy....


Hope this helps?

Blessings,
Lia


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Oct 02, 2009, 09:44 AM
First, Great additions, Lia!

Second, I gave a lecture on Lucifer at the EA Conference in Vancouver, and I had the body of the lecture, sans examples, posted on my web site at one time. Since that's no longer operational, I thought I'd offer that information here for whatever help it may be in understanding the nature of Evil/Lucifer. In addition to the places I listed below as to where Lucifer will manifest, I also found thru observation and correlation that it rears its ugly head when we're about to make a big change as reflected in a movement to a different evolutionary stage OR at one of the evolutionary gates as measured by the phasal relationships between planets.  Hope this helps.

Lucifer: Adversary vs. Bearer of Light as Seen Through the Mystic Rectangle of Scorpio/Taurus/Pisces/Virgo

Although the concepts of good and evil are familiar to us all, it was astrologer Jeffrey Wolf Green who brought the archetype of evil and the asteroid Lucifer to light in relation to the paradigm of evolutionary astrology. The archetype of evil as seen through the horoscope is associated with Pluto, Scorpio and the 8th house. Since the soul itself is also represented through Pluto, Scorpio and the 8th house, we can see that the possibility for the influence of evil is intrinsic to the soul, just as the influence for good is intrinsic to the soul, since it was created by God.

Lucifer, along with the other archangels, was given the charge of serving humanity. However, Lucifer refused to serve humanity as God had directed, and therefore, was 'expelled' by God, which is a phenomenon I understand is unique to archangels when they refuse to do what God has asked them to do. Now feeling victimized by God (Pisces) and refusing to take the responsibility for his own actions (Capricorn), Lucifer blamed the very humans he was supposed to have helped in an effort to bring them down in the same way that he had 'fallen.', i.e., 'misery loves company.'

As we know through the paradigm of evolutionary astrology, as well as through some of the great spiritual teachings of the world, the soul contains two opposite and antithetical desires. One desire is to separate from the Source of creation--God, Goddess, Spirit--and one desire is to return to that Source. Through our desire to return to the Source, that Source, or God'dess, is continually coaxing us back, encouraging our desire and efforts to return. Through our myriad desires to remain separate from the Source, Lucifer, or evil influences or urges us to remain separate. The intent of Lucifer/evil is to separate, not unify.

Given that Lucifer himself was created by God, then he too carries the natural dual desires of separation and return. However small the desire to return to God may be, there is at least some of this, even within Lucifer. Therefore, even Lucifer could use his free will at any time to choose to accept the responsibility for his own actions, repent and to know God and God only. And, if Lucifer were to choose to repent and desire to do just that, then God, being the lover of its own creation and always ready to forgive, would indeed forgive Lucifer and restore him once again to his position among the “angels, archangels and all the company of heaven."

This topic of evil and Lucifer is not an easy or comfortable one. Most of us would rather hide our head in the sand and simply deny (Virgo) that God (Pisces) could have created such an energy or consciousness in the first place. But nothing can exist that does not come from God, so that, of course, includes evil. One reason we may wish to deny the existence of the energy we call evil is that if we acknowledge and accept its existence, then we have to acknowledge that the possibility for this influence, this energy, lies within us. However, any and all possibilities were 'born' at the very moment of creation as God'dess also gave intelligent creatures free will. Even though God did not create Lucifer as evil, per se, the possibility for that choice via free will lay within Lucifer, as well as within each of us.

The great Avatar Paramahansa Yogananda taught about evil: why God created it and how we can use it to our benefit and rise above it. "The truth is that God is using evil, not to destroy us, but to make us disillusioned with His toys, with the playthings of this world, so that we might seek Him. This is why the Lord Himself permits injustices and evil. But I have said to Him, 'Lord, You have never suffered. You have always been perfect. How do you know what suffering is? Yet You have put us through these tests; and You had no business doing it. We didn't ask to be born as mortals and to suffer.' (He doesn't mind that I argue with Him. He is very patient.) The Lord answers, "You don't have to go on suffering; I have given everyone the free will to choose good instead of evil, and thus come back to me. So evil is the test of God to see if we will choose Him or His gifts. He created us in His image and gave us the power to free ourselves. But we don't use that power." Why God Permits Evil and How to Rise Above It.

Through the paradigm of evolutionary astrology, and specifically through the archetypes of Pluto, Scorpio, the 8th house and the location of the asteroid Lucifer, Jeffrey gave us a way to determine where this influence of evil might be felt, how it might manifest in the individual birth chart: where it can either exacerbate our desires to remain separate from God/Source, which are only limited (Scorpio/Taurus) by our imaginations (Pisces), or via the polarity point of Lucifer, where it can enhance our own personal desire (Taurus) to return to that Source (Pisces). It can manifest through our feelings of powerlessness and our desire for power (Scorpio).

Another place where we can particularly feel the influence of Lucifer/evil is where we are most emotionally weak, where it uses our own emotional weaknesses, weaknesses that are intrinsic to us, to keep us separate. This influence can distort our personal needs and desires (Taurus) into selfishness. Thru Scorpio/Taurus, it can really manifest itself thru sexuality, as well as thru the very instinct to survive, i.e, through a myriad of possible behaviors/manifestations if one's life is or appears to be on the line.

Since Lucifer (evil) made the choice (Scorpio/Pluto) to not do what God asked him to--serve (Virgo) humanity--and Virgo being what I consider the microcosm of the macrocosm (Pisces), then in each of our own cases, determined by evolutionary condition, it is where we can choose to cooperate with God thru our service to humanity or not. Thru Virgo it can be where we can be in denial of our own inner workings, of our actual desires, denial of our intentions and motivations (sextile to Scorpio), or denial of the divinity within each of us (opposition to Pisces). Through the Pisces/Virgo opposition, it can also operate through our feeling of being so small in the face of that which, until this point in time has been considered perfect, that we feel unable to move forward at all.

Thru Virgo and the archetype of self-improvement, evil can manifest through our desires to simply make changes and/or to know God. It can be where we see only the problem (Virgo) instead of the solution (Pisces), or it can create doubt about what we can and cannot do and create crisis (Virgo) when there doesn't need to be one. Thru the sextile between Virgo and Scorpio, evil can influence us through the continuing recycling of our thoughts and feelings of being powerless or by ruminating on our perceived 'deficiencies,' and therefore, we form relationships to something that symbolizes what in our own estimation we currently don't have and think that we need. We can also see the connection, thru the mystic rectangle, to overt forms of S & M behavior (both sexual and non-sexual), as well as any kind of self-undermining behavior that keeps us from moving forward, etc. There is also a connection thru the mystic rectangle, between our feelings of not having what we think we need (Scorpio/Taurus) and our feelings of lack and imperfection (Virgo/Pisces), the two of which I think are closely related. By the same token, it can also be where we over estimate and/or become deluded about who and what we are, what we are capable of and what we are not.
 
Perhaps Milton had the Virgo archetype in mind/nailed down in Paradise Lost with the following quote: " The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven."

And, as Paramahansa Yogananda states: "Everyone has self-limiting idiosyncrasies. These were not put into your nature by God, but were created by you. These are what you must change -- by remembering that these habits, peculiar to your nature, are nothing but manifestations of your own thoughts."
Through the mystic rectangle we can see that Lucifer comes from God/microcosm (Pisces) into the individual/microcosm (Virgo). Lucifer manifests right at crossroads of the dual desires of soul (Pluto-Scorpio/Taurus), one desire to return to that which created us and one desire to remain separate from that which created us (Pisces), with Taurus being ruled by Venus, the higher octave of which is Neptune, ruler of Pisces. So now we have sextiles between Pisces and Taurus and Scorpio (limitations) and Virgo (lack) and trines from Pisces to Scorpio (Source and Soul) and Taurus (feelings, personal desires) to Virgo (thoughts), and the obvious opposition of Pisces (Solution) and Virgo (Problem): the mystic rectangle.
 
The term mystic itself according to the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language means: of or relating to religious mysteries or occult rites and practices. This reflects the astrological archetypes of Pisces (religious mysteries) and Scorpio (occult rites and practices). Another meaning is: inspiring a sense of mystery and wonder.

According to Dane Rudhyar, "unlike the Grand Cross or Square, the Rectangle points in a certain direction and presents a challenge for a particular kind of integration. The rectangular shape was used in many temples and chambers of initiation, and the buildings themselves were built to symbolize the process of transition from one stage of personal-spiritual unfoldment to the next - the fulfillment of a great goal. Seen on the vertical plane, the rectangle becomes a DOOR, something to pass thru to enter a new realm." Astrological Aspects: A Process Oriented Approach

Dane Rudhyar came to call the mystic rectangle, the "Harmonic" Rectangle. "One of the most practically constructive and spiritually harmonious possibilities of any rectangle is indicated when the 2 oppositions are linked by sextiles and trines." Where fully active, this 'Harmonic Rectangle' points to the potential development of a character strongly organized in an attempt to take an important step in personal growth and/or spiritual development. The configuration tends to bring the polarized elements symbolized by the oppositions into a unity, because a strong sense of organization (sextile) and a cohesive, purposeful vision (Trine) are potential in the personality. Whatever tensions arise in the life or personality that are symbolized in the opposing planets (or opposition) don't necessarily 'go away.' But, they can be "laid on the altar," or channeled toward the concrete completion of a significant life-task." ibid.
So the mystic, or harmonic, rectangle is simply another way to shed more light on the influence of Lucifer both as the Adversary and as the Bearer of Light thru the interrelated archetypes of Scorpio, Taurus, Virgo and Pisces.

What I have begun to observe is that all of the above archetypes of Lucifer as the adversary can also be seen by superimposing the mystic rectangle formed by the signs Scorpio-Taurus-Pisces and Virgo on an individual chart, and then locating their rulers, to see exactly what areas of life will be affected by this energy and where that energy is likely to be even more pronounced, due to the connections made through the oppositions, trines and sextiles of the mystic rectangle. As the archetype of the Bearer of Light, we can see where we can identify and link what we desire (including our desire to know God, our desire to return), what we need, what we love, how we serve, what kinds of symbols we can align with and osmose to God'dess herself. We can identify specific methods that help eliminate the emotional weaknesses, the feelings of powerlessness or lack, and therefore some of the separating desires, which in turn leads to a strengthening of our desire to change and/or know Goddess. So again, the solution lies within the problem, i.e., changing those 'messages' to the opposite and being our own alchemist and turning our inner 'lead' into 'gold,' indicated by the houses that contain this mystic rectangle, which include the 'method' (Virgo) for our own metamorphosis (Scorpio).

Another thing I found is that where the mystic rectangle becomes a total opposition, i.e., thru the overlay of Pisces/Virgo on and/or in 2nd/8th, or vice versa; and Scorpio/Taurus on and/or in 6th/12th or vice versa, then the archetypes become even more emphasized, either as Adversary or as Bearer of Light, and whether on an internal or external level and/or both.

So we can see that the mystic rectangle of Scorpio/Taurus/Pisces/Virgo encompasses the very places where Lucifer is most likely to influence us: through our natural desires to separate or return (Scorpio), our deepest emotions (Pisces and Scorpio), our feelings (Taurus) and our thoughts (Virgo). Again, it is these areas where Lucifer is extremely invested in influencing us. The mystic rectangle, though, also offers us the mutability (Pisces/Virgo), or ability to change and adapt, the fixidity (Scorpio/Taurus) we've experienced to this moment in time and to make changes to all these dynamics. It can become, as Rudhyar stated, that door thru which we pass into a new realm.




Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lia on Oct 02, 2009, 02:13 PM
Thank you Adina! This really is a fantastic article on this topic thanks for sharing it here!
I guess if Rad, Steve and Deva agrees this also should be in the archive so people can access it in the future?


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Oct 03, 2009, 11:44 AM
Thank you Adina! This really is a fantastic article on this topic thanks for sharing it here!
I guess if Rad, Steve and Deva agrees this also should be in the archive so people can access it in the future?

Posted on the EA School blog, here:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/lucifer-adversary-vs-bearer-of-light

Thanks, Adina and Lia


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lucius on Oct 03, 2009, 08:23 PM
Thank you, Adina!  I've read this before on your website - but, as is frequently the case, it is now truly sinking into me & I'll need to reread & remind myself of your words.  I'm on an evolutionary cusp & have long dry spells where evil truly gets it's mind into mine.  It's so subtle.  However, these dry spells are marked by epiphanies - and I had one tonight, rather specific to myself, however, it is to see evil as god, truly - that, as yogananda says, it is god recalling you to yourself.  This will be easy to recognize in projection but, vigilance is needed to see it within.  I have Scorpio/Taurus & virgo with heavy neptune aspects so it's quite amazing - I see myself in Lucifer refusing to serve humanity! 

Also, after first starting black elk speaks & always crying during the first paragraph after over a decade I've finally read all of it & cried throughout - even now I cry.  Ugh....anyway - I think, with the help of EA & Wolf's reading I've pointed the source of recurrent feelings. One problem is he pointed out you cannot 'purge' these emotions - so, it's hard, I need to feel them but not let them get in the way of service.  So!  Again, thank you!  :)


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Wendy on Oct 10, 2009, 11:46 AM
Excellent article Adlina.  Thank you so much!  

I have a question based on Lucifer's transit effect through a natal chart.   Let's say someone is in their Saturn opposition, with T-Saturn also crossing over natal Pluto (and its aspects) while Lucifer is crossing over the ascendant squaring T-Saturn and natal Pluto.  

Could that person's life's work, mission, related to karmic evolution, be influenced by Lucifer in the form of an increase in the desire nature towards distractions, temptations and sabotage more than the norm?



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Oct 10, 2009, 12:02 PM
Hi Wendy

Yes, that is exactly how it works - it attempts to distract.  So at times when those energies are stronger the urge to follow the separating desires increases.   

As it has always been stated, the polarity of the Lucifer's dark is the Light Bearer.  So if a person can stay on track, despite the urge to distract, much progress is possible.

Steve


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Wendy on Oct 10, 2009, 01:55 PM
Thanks Steve.  I certainly have been feeling it, even though I was unaware of Lucifer and its transiting direction.  It has been moving through my 12th house for a long time.  It crossed my natal north node, Jupiter (ruler of sn) and ascendant to eventually conjunct my progressed Jupiter.  I just wrote a long post on another forum about its influence on my chart. 

Wow, I am soooo glad to discover it now because it is going to also square my progressed Mercury, ruler of my NN soon.

Thanks again for the insights.  Do you know how long Lucifer stations through the signs?


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Oct 10, 2009, 03:45 PM
Hi

I've posted two Lucifer ephermeris that can be downloaded as PDF files, in this posting:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,99.0.html

One is the position of Lucifer every 5 days between 1920 and 2008.  The other is every day between 1980 and 2020.

You can see from this how long Lucifer stations in a sign.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Oct 10, 2009, 04:57 PM
Wendy, I also posted a web site where you can create your own ephemeris for hundreds of astroids (including their nodes), as well as planets. You can get the daily position using this web site. It's listed in the Misc. Section of the MB. If you have any questions related to how to do anthing on this site, please feel free to post them here.

Also the orbital period of Lucifer is 4.9 years.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Wendy on Oct 11, 2009, 11:45 AM
Thanks for Ephemeris.  I just looked at it and see that Lucifer's movement through the signs is irregular.  in 2008 it spent 3 months in Aquarius, while it was in Pisces for 10 months, activiating the grand cross in my chart which includes my nodal axis.

Thanks again.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lucius on Oct 19, 2009, 07:02 PM
Wanted to pop back here & say something fairly simple that might help others - it's a very simple realization, that's absolutely obvious but helped me immensely.  Lately, especially reading all the memoirs of native elders I can get my hands on, I have read much that has struck a deep despondent chord that I think has to do with Uranus in the 10th....but, thinking of the egotism & the sheer insanity of western culture  - when you have the vision of the destruction & absurdity of it - the idea that, for instance, up in Alaska, some company has the 'rights' to some land they want to make an eight mile hole in the good earth to extract these shiny rocks from that threatens the greatest spawning grounds of salmon, the bears & every other living being around - it's utterly insane!  As if anyone owns the earth - it's just nuts!  And one night I went out to look at the stars to calm down the simple truth dawned on me - the Great Spirit can never be destroyed, never!  No matter if we blow this whole world to dust, the Great Spirit remains...and as obvious as that may be...it helped me & has helped immensely.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Rad on Oct 20, 2009, 10:24 AM
Thanks for sharing that Lucius ..................... Rad


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Oliver Fred on Oct 27, 2009, 01:13 AM
Hi everyone,

If one has Lucifer positioned on the North Node, should one be willing to look into dark places in order to have to become a light bearing- experience? I hope that makes sense. Is this a signature that simply says that the way to initiate the Pluto Polarity will be involving "distractions" from evil, forcing one to face the dark and turn it into light?

-Oliver


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Rad on Oct 27, 2009, 01:01 PM
Oliver,

Hi everyone,

If one has Lucifer positioned on the North Node, should one be willing to look into dark places in order to have to become a light bearing- experience? I hope that makes sense. Is this a signature that simply says that the way to initiate the Pluto Polarity will be involving "distractions" from evil, forcing one to face the dark and turn it into light?

-Oliver

 Yes, and all those potential dark places are not only reflected in the house and sign of the N.Node/Lucifer conjunction, but also in the house and sign of the planet that rules that N.Node/Lucifer, and the houses/signs/ planets that this planetary ruler is making aspects too. Other planets, and the signs/houses that they are in, that are making aspects to that N.Node/Lucifer conjunction would also have to be looked into so that all those potential dark places can be turned into Light.

 Rad


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Oct 29, 2009, 03:00 PM
adina wrote:
Quote
Given that Lucifer himself was created by God, then he too carries the natural dual desires of separation and return. However small the desire to return to God may be, there is at least some of this, even within Lucifer. Therefore, even Lucifer could use his free will at any time to choose to accept the responsibility for his own actions, repent and to know God and God only. And, if Lucifer were to choose to repent and desire to do just that, then God, being the lover of its own creation and always ready to forgive, would indeed forgive Lucifer and restore him once again to his position among the “angels, archangels and all the company of heaven."

That totally makes sense to me.

JWG wrote:
Quote
This means souls that have actually made contracts with evil. The soul will make a contract with evil in order to gain, in quotes, “supernatural power.” And when a soul makes such a contract, despite our compassionate hearts to the contrary, such a contract cannot be broken…until evil itself does not remain.

1. If a soul can choose to make a contract with evil, which is a part of Creation. And free will is an opportunity of creation as well- why in the world can't it choose to say "GODDESS- I make a contract with you. I dont care what it takes, I am done with this evil" If Lucifer as Adina wrote can return to source, doesn't that archetype live within each of us? Thus the ability of any soul who has made a contract with evil (by choosing to osmos with dillusion) to choose to reverse that and osmos with truth.

2. Duality doesn't actually exist- only the perception of it. So evil is just an investment in a perception of something that isn't real. When Wolf write that the contract is reversable only if evil doesn't exist anymore. If an individual soul chooses to surrender to the faith all in fact is one, isn't that a cessation of evil?

(Oh cool, I just realized that I have luciger 18 Aqu 44- so Jupiter has been moving over that one for a bit now- of course I'm getting some lessons.
When Neptune was moving over it I was practicing astral projection and was offered exactly what Wolf spoke of- special powers. That was a powerful time in my life when I was experiencing a lot of change and evolution. They really tried to trick me. But it was easy to turn down. I'm grateful for those experiences bc then I stopped trying to do things like astral projection, divination etc and devoted myself to connect directly to my Source only.)


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Oct 29, 2009, 03:35 PM
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/arimoshe/friend.jpg)

I thought this would be a good example of a soul whose got the "light-darkness" archetype going on strongly.

This is a chart of a friend of mine- she has once asked me for a reading. then in the astral plane she told me that she doesn't want me to help her. At a time we were sexually intimate with each other. One night she tried guilting me and convincing me to have sex with her after I told her clearly no. She has apologized for her behavior after she did it once, then it happened again he next night we slept together.
She has struggled with evil her entire life- friends being murdered, heroine addiction. She is living very clean right now, but still has a lot in the closet.

She has lucifer at 16 degrees cancer on the AC. Trining the nodes. Then we have Pluto and the nodes in scorpio in the 5th, with a square from Jupiter Mars and the Sun. She is probably in the third stage individuated/first stage spiritual range.

I don't think she has made a contract with evil- but it feels like she's been working hard to move towards the light. What kind of suggestions would you give her?







Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Oct 29, 2009, 05:49 PM
Quote
1. If a soul can choose to make a contract with evil, which is a part of Creation. And free will is an opportunity of creation as well- why in the world can't it choose to say "GODDESS- I make a contract with you. I dont care what it takes, I am done with this evil" If Lucifer as Adina wrote can return to source, doesn't that archetype live within each of us? Thus the ability of any soul who has made a contract with evil (by choosing to osmos with dillusion) to choose to reverse that and osmos with truth.

2. Duality doesn't actually exist- only the perception of it. So evil is just an investment in a perception of something that isn't real. When Wolf write that the contract is reversable only if evil doesn't exist anymore. If an individual soul chooses to surrender to the faith all in fact is one, isn't that a cessation of evil?

Ari, what I hear you saying is pretty much the same thing nearly all of us have said when we first learned about evil/Lucifer, because most of us are loving, caring, compassionate people, we WANT anyone who’s made this contract to be ABLE to get out of it.

As far as a contract with God’dess, as wolf told me years ago now, we ALL have that, for God unconditionally loves each and every creature, each and every soul within its creation. We can turn down or turn away from God, and STILL have God’s love. And unless and until we make an actual contract with evil we still evolve toward God. I personally believe that even after a soul has made a contract, god still loves that soul, but just as God did with Lucifer, so it does with any soul who chooses to go the way OF Lucifer, i.e., the person cannot get out of the contract until (from Wolf’s understanding) there is no more need for the manifested creation, at which time all returns back to God.

Lucifer does, indeed, have the capacity to CHOOSE to return to God, but as far as I know s/he still has not. So, yes, that capacity to turn away from evil and return to God lives within each one of us (including Lucifer) but again, that is ONLY AS LONG AS THE CONTRACT HAS NOT BEEN MADE. Once the contract has been made…. Well, see above.  As has been said before, if it were that easy to get OUT of the contract, then wouldn’t nearly ANY of us make it to get what we wanted at some point in our evolution? I mean if I could promise to rob banks for evil for say, six years, giving me all the money I want and then decide I’m done, wouldn’t that be really easy to do – especially in the earlier stages of evolution?  There are so many different reasons we might want to make that contract, some of them even seeming like “good” ones… maybe, say, sparring the life of someone we love who has a terminal illness, etc…   But again, that contract cannot be broken.

On the other hand one CAN be severely INfluenced by evil and do exactly what you said, i.e., decide to be done with it and return back to God…. That CAN be done ….. as long as the contract has not been made.

Sadly, choosing to align with and osmose “truth” does NOT guarantee that one will not be tempted and/or influenced by evil. And that influence doesn’t necessarily play out in harming others. It can very simply keep us from doing what we need to do for ourselves, in whatever way is necessary for our own evolution, too.

Duality doesn’t exist with God itself, Ari, but we live in a time/space reality in which duality – polarity – does, indeed, exist,  and yes, good/god and evil. For we cannot KNOW god w/o evil. At least not here. And so evil IS real…  It is NOT just “an investment in a perception of something that isn't real.” Quite the contrary. And just for shits and giggles, you can ask any number of us who’ve had very real and very tangible “battles” with evil.

In relation to turning all at once toward God, toward the “faith” and thereby making all one and creating a cessation of evil, Jesus himself still fought it every day of his life. Think of his famous lines, “Get the behind me, Satan.”

As far as Wolf saying that “the contract is reversible only if evil doesn't exist anymore,” well, what he actually said is a bit different. For worded THAT way, it sounds like evil can be eradicated first and then the contract would be reversed.
However, the way Wolf explained it is that ALL souls (even those who’ve made a contract) will return to God once there is no longer any need for the manifested creation. (Thus there would also no longer be a need for evil). And if I remember correctly, Wolf said that was HIS understanding of it when he explained it all to us.

I know this is a really uncomfortable (to say the LEAST) idea to wrap one’s head around, but I also know it to be true, both from Wolf’s teachings and examples/experiences, as well as thru my own.   

I’m glad you brought the topic up, Ari. It’s ESPECIALLY important at this transition of the ages, and I’m sure will generate more discussion. Please do feel free to ask more. Also know that I’m not asking you to blindly believe what I say…. But to consider the possibility.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Oct 29, 2009, 07:20 PM
Thank you for your response Adina- I do appreciate this exploration a lot- and im not worried about you or anyone trying to convince me of anything. this is a great learning/ healing experience for me.

Quote
the person cannot get out of the contract until (from Wolf’s understanding) there is no more need for the manifested creation, at which time all returns back to God.

that last quote is something I want to explore. what does Wolf mean when he says that?

I'm also interested in hearing what your/ea's opinion is on teachings like "A Course in Miracles". To quote the introductory paragraph:

"This is a course in miracles, it is a required course. free will does not mean you can choose the curriculum, it means you can establish what to take when. The aim of this course is not to teach love, for love is beyond what can be taught. it does aim however at removing the obstacles to the awareness of love's presense- which is your natural inheritance.
The opposite of love is fear...
however that which is all encompassing can have no opposite.
This course can therefore be summed: Nothing real can be threathened. Nothing unreal exists.
Heirin lies the peace of God."

In particular the last 4 lines- what is the ea perspective/opinion on that?
Thank you!


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Nov 16, 2009, 12:48 PM
I am not trying to change anyones views here- Im just trying my hardest to learn the ea perspective.

One thing JWG writes doesnt seem logical to me. And no one has questioned it:
In justifying why a contract with evil is irreversible, he stated that if a soul has the opportunity to make a contract with evil and then can break the contract- then anyone would find a rational to make a contract with evil on the basis that they can simply undo it.

To me that is not sound logic. I do not go about doing really horrible things with the rational that i can just undo it. When I do something harmful, there are simply consequences. If I eat lots of sugar, it will take time, and ill have to make some extra adjustments for my body to balance out again.

Also, in his lecture about evil. JWG was clearly stressed out and defensive. To me, he was exemplifying the frustration of lucifer in virgo in the 10th relative to his south node in sag in the first. He says many times that he is just the messenger. Who told him this? On what basis do we believe him?

I am choosing to give ea my all and focus all my energy here. Based on that choice, it is hard for me to just let things slide and accept it w/out exploring it as much as I can.

I am grateful for any response to this.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Nov 16, 2009, 01:28 PM
Ari,

I sure appreciate your questioning nature in learning the EA perspective. I’m sure Wolf himself would WANT you to question and not just take at face value what ANYONE says, not just him.

As far as it not being “sound logic” that one would “make a contract with evil on the basis that they can simply undo it,” because then one would do all sorts of “horrible” things, that isn’t necessarily the case at all, and actually is probably just the opposite. In fact, if a person, a soul, was presented with the option of doing horrible things as a reward for making the contract, then I doubt evil would get ANY ‘takers’ at all.

The whole idea behind the contract is that evil promises something that the soul DESIRES, something they want that they think will make them feel good. That’s the key: it offers something that makes the person feel GOOD. For example, the lover, a particular job, a new house, any NUMBER of things. Or it promises power or control, or something that we think we LACK and having it would make us "better."  Evil says, “I will give you what you want, and you promise to serve ME.”  Remember, too, that Wolf made it very clear that evil always hides behind God, which then makes the whole deal seem even ‘better,’ but the key word is “seem.” There's a LOT more information regarding the hows and whys of what evil offers in order to get a soul to make the contract, but that information is included in former lectures and workshops. We can get into more of a discussion about that if necessary.

In relation to your assessment that in his lecture Wolf was “clearly stressed out and defensive,” may I ask what brought you to that conclusion? Did you listen to a tape? Read the transcript? Or were you there at the lecture? It’s very often quite difficult to tell what someone’s emotional/psychological state is by the written word, or even on tape. I was at that lecture, and I didn’t feel he was at all stressed out and defensive, but I DO think he felt the pressure of being the messenger. If you think about it, it’s not the easiest message to have to bring to people. But I know that Wolf is completely dedicated to doing what the Divine, the Source, asks him to do, so he simply carries that out.

So, then, regarding Wolf’s statement that he’s “just the messenger,” I think one believes him because he or she knows who and what Wolf is. It’s that simple. Those who learned from Wolf over many years – members of this council, for example – as well as many of the early students, know he’s at the beginning of 3rd stage spiritual, and once you know that and you understand the evolutionary stages, then you can better understand what he means by those words and where they came from. And, as always, one is still free to agree or disagree with him; to believe him or not. And that doesn’t mean he’s perfect; he was one of the first to say so, too. No one on this planet CAN be perfect.

Still, personally, over the years, both from what Wolf taught about Lucifer/Evil as well as my own experiences, I’d have to say that what he teaches about it is true….. just more uncomfortable than what most of us would like.

I hope this helps a little, Ari. Please feel free to ask more questions about this if you wish.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: PamS on Nov 16, 2009, 04:24 PM
Note, I know we are not suppose to discuss of personal opinions and I understand and respect this, but I did think this was important for others to understand how students have wrestled with the information....

thanks,

pam



Hi Ari,

I just wanted to add my two cents.  I am in no position or desire to have any authority on this Q and A board so my opinion is what my process has been with this information.  I also have heard lots of people over the years question wolfs insight with this information, you are not the only one.  Please know I have a deep appreciation of an inquiring soul and you need to figure it out for yourself as adina stated.  When I first heard about the non-breaking contract info, I thought it was silly…  I have done lots of thinking and deep work with spirits and seeing spirit attachments in my own soul work.  Most of the malignant spirit attachments I have seen have been deeply wounded, which has caused them to attach in the first place…. I think those can be healed and released, ….  The whole contract thing is an idea that for me gets too caught up in language, religion, authority, messenger’s etc- that is way too confusing for me.   Do I feel that there are another set of things, souls, entities in this cosmos that are up to no bad ass good, that would rather see suffering than hope and would be happy if life did not exist, you bet cha.  Whether its eternal or not, I don’t feel like I even need to figure out. But in many ways there is an eternal struggle between opposing forces, the paperwork seems extraneously.   Anyone who thinks, everyones screwed up ugly cousin has signed a contract with evil I personally feel is way off the mark and please that was said in humor and with no reference with anyone in EA.  All I can say is think big, get beyond authority, rules and feel into what you think is true for you…

blessings with your questioning

pam


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: inyo on Nov 16, 2009, 06:37 PM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/horseface18/luci-1.gif?t=1258418149)

How can one tell the difference between someone who has made a contract with evil and someone who has dark parasites that umm... influence the soul negatively? This chart shows Luci incj. Ven and N. Node.
Is there always a strong Luci aspect in the charts of people who have made contracts?

Thanks.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Nov 16, 2009, 06:53 PM
Inyo, while there may, indeed, be a strong Lucifer in the chart of a person who's made a contract, as Wolf always taught, everything is a matter of observation and correlation. So, just as you cannot tell what evolutionary stage a person is in just by the birth chart, so too you cannot tell who's made a contract just by looking at a chart. We have to observe the person and correlate their beliefs, intentions, motivations, etc. with their actions. Also, according to what Wolf taught, in a person who has made a contract, the pupils of the eyes will go vertical--turn "cat like"--especially if confronted about their relationship to evil/Lucifer. It's AFTER the observation and correlation that one can back up the assessment thru the chart. In addition to a strong Lucifer (by placement or aspect), the influence or contract with evil could be supported with a strong Scorpio signature (thru an 8th house Pluto, many aspects to Pluto, or many planets in Scorpio).

BTW: TR Lucifer is currently retrograde at 28 Gemini and still in opposition to TR Pluto at 1 Cap. Interesting that all these questions about Lucifer/evil are resurfacing.  :)

Pam, I would agree that it IS good to see how students have wrestled with this concept, because it's not an easy one at all! Not at all! 


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: inyo on Nov 16, 2009, 07:29 PM
Thanks Adina.

Im sorry I wasnt clear. The reason I posted this specific chart is because I have an extensive direct experience with this individual and I cant quite tell what his darkness is from, weather it be a contract, parasites or some extremely heavy karma. I am not versed well enough in all the definitions of EA evil to know how I would be able to tell the difference. There is a pervasive darkness with him. Without getting into all the details..... there is some very heavy stuff there. If you look at the chart and think of some of the negative ways all the Scorpio in the 12th can manifest, alot of it has.

Are you able to explain the difference between someone with a contract and someone with parasites? Is someone that just has parasites necessarily also someone that has made a contract in all cases or are those two different matters.



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lesley on Nov 17, 2009, 09:19 AM
Hi everyone,

Pam, thank you for your post. I'm so glad you contributed your thoughts, because I can relate to where you are coming from. 

I'm writing in because I have a relative whom I know to have made a contract with evil, but I haven't got a birth time (or even a reliable birth date) for her. I share this because, Inyo, I think sometimes you just intuitively know when you've come upon such a Soul. It can't be seen in the birth chart, though the archetypes of Scorpio and the 8th house will always be implicated; yet, I think intuition is always the best and strongest guide. I remember Wolf explaining about an instinctive repulsion, a sulphuric smell, etc., that can be present when in the presence of such a Soul.

I can try to describe a little of my experience, if it might add at all to the discussion. Though I didn't think in terms of 'evil' as a child, I knew this family member was to be avoided at all costs, and we had an instant dislike of each other from my earliest memories. However, the rest of my immediate family always seemed to be under some kind of inexplicable spell around her (they still are, unfortunately). Nobody wants to confront the obvious about her, even after all this time. She's done nothing but manipulate, steal, lie, and create chaos, pain, and grief for many generations of my family (including physical violence to me when I was very young, and projecting her evil motives onto me throughout my childhood)...and yet no one (else) in my family ever wanted to get rid of her or tell her off, and they still won't. She preyed on everyone's negative emotions, as evil does, and it worked every time. Evil gets other Souls to do its work by exploiting their deepest insecurities so as to turn them against each other, and even against themselves. That's part of the contract itself.

She's contracted more than one kind of cancer in her later years, but somehow manages to live on. (Reminds me of Dick Cheney and his heart problems that never seem to remove his presence from the planet, either.) She is widely suspected of murder in the town where she lives, but the authorities have no evidence... From what I've seen, evil works in this shadowy way: it's right in front of you but at the same time it alludes any kind of capture, rehabilitation, or 'punishment,' for lack of a better term. The contract protects the Soul so that it may endure to do more evil. Additionally, evil often escapes even being NAMED and LABELED as such, because people are so frightened at the very thought that it could exist (let alone be within their own family). As Lucifer is also the Bearer of Light, I have found that naming it and acknowledging it for what it is counters the instinctive fear; remembering that God is ALWAYS present, no matter what is happening, deals the final blow to evil, because as Wolf always reminded us, in the end, God always wins.

I hope it's all right to have added to this discussion...I'm sorry I don't have a chart to share (believe me, over the years I've tried to acquire the information...but in evil's typical, "shadowy" way, no one seems to know for sure what day OR time this Soul incarnated on the planet. That, to me, is very telling).

Love and blessings to everyone in the EA family,
Lesley


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Nov 17, 2009, 10:26 AM
Hi all

I make no claim to be any kind of expert on the subject of evil.

I want to add to this discussion that I agree 100% with what Lesley just wrote.  From my limited experiences, she has hit the nail on the head.  That is exactly how it works.

And the value of Lesleys description of that individual is it puts a living breathing face of a not-famous example on all that has been written on the subject.  The concepts as they have been laid out remain somewhat theoretical until one is presented, in the flesh, with living examples of those principles.  Then one begins to see how these principles/concepts manifest in actual people.  Their actions DO make the skin crawl on anyone whose life is spent reaching for the light.

And as it has been explained to me, the more one reaches the light, the more they naturally attract this opposite polarity, forever.  It's just the way life in this dualistic reality works.  The issue is learning how to deal with such energies and not let them get a toehold anywhere around you.

As I've come to look at it, although when these things occur they can be experienced as very personal, in reality its all impersonal.  Evil, so to speak, is just doing the job it has in the scheme of things - its supposed to be doing what its doing.  But we here are given choice - we don't have to give in to its influence over us.   I have seen that evil/dark will seep in through every crack in the wall or under the front door that it can find.  These cracks in us are the places where we are not being totally honest with ourselves in any way (our shadow).  That is one reason the opposing force is called LIGHT - we have to shine a bright LIGHT on all the dark unconscious places within our Souls - to become ever more real and honest about our own remaining less than totally wonderful tendencies.

The way evil manifests in human consciousness is through behaviors of elitism, superiority, domination, selfishness, greed, indifference to the needs and pain of others, separation of self and the social groups one is in from all else - exclusivism - we are better than you are, rationalization and justification, self-interest ahead of the good of the group and the common whole. As Adina has stated many times, Evil will often present itself as being God's intention, like the recent announcement from the chairman of Goldman Sachs of just that, that they are doing God's work.  In a way that is true, because evil is also part of God.  But the question is, which polarity of God's work do you want to be on?

In our time such behavior patterns are described as sociopathic, and that is how evil is manifesting, through such people.  And that is WHY they are sociopathic - their inability to empathize comes from somewhere, and that somewhere is the subject of this discussion.

This is one of the reasons we have acted so strongly on this message board when people with an attitude appear.  My tendency for most people is to give them the benefit of the doubt, sometimes for too long.  But I am beginning to sense when someone appears who has that basic attitude.  They generally present themselves like the wolf in sheep's clothing at first.  But it doesn't take long before their underlying agenda appears, and its sometimes shocking at first to see the switch.

I'm not saying all of those who have appeared here are evil or have a contract.  Its not necessary to have a contract to become the unconscious agent of dark forces.  All one has to do is become dishonest with self about one's actual nature, and in that space of self-deceit the dark finds an opening to manifest.  Because the person is not self-honest about what they are doing, they remain in denial of their actual behavior, intentions, motivations, and agenda, and can even believe they are carrying out the intentions of the light.  This is why we have at times acted in ways that may seem harsh, on people who have appeared here.  Because we will not let such energies get even a toehold here, as they are the exact opposite of everything EA is about.

If you think about it, these sociopathic attitudes are the dominant reality of our time.  That, in a nutshell, demonstrates the hold these dark forces have over so much of what goes on today.  Why is it that wall street banks continually get bailed out, get away with giving tens of billions of dollars in new bonuses, while thousands of families a week are foreclosed from their homes, put out on the street, and 600,000 additional people a month lose their jobs, when it was the situations the wall street banks created in the first place re the "revolution" in house financing that laid the groundwork for the foreclosures and job losses in the first place?  And no matter what anyone says, writes, does, the banks continue getting rewarded while so many others suffer.  

This is the exact same principle that Lesley described as the charmed life of her evil relative, getting away with it over and over, fooling everyone, because they don't want to deal with it, applied at a societal level.  It manifests in exactly the same ways societally as it does individually.  These corporations - banks, pharmaceutical, wall street, insurance, oil -  just seem to keep getting away with it, again and again.  They buy off all opposition they can purchase, and destroy any they can't.

Wolf was adamant on many occasions that this contract was unbreakable.  Based on everything else he said, I don't think he would have been as adamant about that unless he had personally experienced the reality of that.  I think few of the rest of us, including me, have any real basis to KNOW whether this is literally true as he described it.  So any discussion of its truth vs not truth really is based only on belief, conjecture, and hopes, that is, opinion - not actual experience.  Thus that discussion can go on forever as there is no actual basis for a definitive answer from anyone who has not experienced a definitive answer.

What is NOT refutable is the EFFECTS of this evil, as described above.  So in reality whether it goes on for all eternity or not is kind of a moot point.  It clearly has its toehold now and is affecting everything in all human life and behavior.  I don't think too many people will argue against that.

In terms of moving this discussion forward, if any are interested, I think it would be quite valuable to discuss, given the reality of the present situation, what individuals who have no interest in feeding the darkness at all can DO, daily, to keep these influences at bay, and utilize the light-bearer side of Lucifer to help our own evolution, and through that, make a valuable contribution to the overall collective.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: ari moshe on Nov 17, 2009, 11:17 AM
Adina, thank you for such a clear response- you are right, i cannot judge just by having read the transcript the emotional state of JWG.

Right on Pam  8)

Steve, I would love to learn more about how to keep the evil at bay and utilize the light side of lucifer. Personally, i recognize that is one hell of a journey, and it doesnt end.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: dughlas on Nov 17, 2009, 01:14 PM
I have question in response to Steve's remark that sociopathy is becoming more prevalent in the world and the question is not just for Steve.

Would this concept correlate with the last 3 generations (all that I have personal firsthand observations from) consistently saying that "people just don't seem to care about each other as much as when I was younger"?

I've always just chalked that thought up to  a change in perception as we age, but now I think...not so much.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Nov 17, 2009, 02:20 PM
In the 60's a significant portion of the young were in rebellion against the existing orientations.  They were, in their varied ways, seeking to establish a new way, based more on inclusion, caring, sharing.  In EA we refer to that orientation as natural law or matriarchy.

Ever since, those representing the polarity orientation have been seeking to wipe out anything that was gained during this time.  This picked up speed with the election of Reagan, with the slogan of the 80's being "greed is good", after the (admittedly naive) idealism of the 60's.  This was turned into a political movement and bankrolled to hundreds of millions of dollars by elitist authoritarian right wing "entrepreneurs", to advance their own interests at the expense of everyone else.

Even the younger people here have lived through enough of the history since then to be aware of how the seeds planted by this movement have taken hold and born fruit for those who planted them.  Everything has been turned on its head.

Being kind and generous and seeking to lookout for the needs of the collective has been reframed as weak, idealistic, namby-pamby, and "liberal" has been turned into nearly a 4 letter word.   All of the values that defined much of a generation have been reframed as "outside the mainstream". 

Meanwhile Republican family-value Jeezus freaks caught in all sorts of bizarre sexual situations completely outside their publicly stated values are let off the hook time and time again, free to remain in office, and no doubt, repeat their hypocritical deeds.

All of this is from an elite who have decided they are above the law and above the rules intended for everyone else.  Read about The Family as written by author Jeff Sharlet, how they teach that Jesus had two sets of teachings, the one about being meek and taking care of the weak was the outer teaching for the sheep.  The inner teaching was for the select few who God had chosen to run the world - they were not to pay attention to all that namby pamby crap.  If they have an affair, or have sex with a 15 year old, or "slip" in any way, they are forgiven because they are chosen.  At least a dozen of our hardline Republican senators, the real jerks, are involved with this group.

This did not previously exist, nowhere near the degree to which it does now.  It is pervasive, and growing.

40 years ago the media felt a responsibility to inform and educate its viewers, knowing that a true democracy requires an informed population.  As the large corporations took over the smaller media companies, this gradually went out the window.  They now view their media companies as basically corporate PR departments.  The bottom line in a corporation is make money, any way possible, even if that is at the expense of millions of others. (If you think about it, 1) you will agree that is true, and 2) you will agree that if it was a human doing this, we would call it sociopathic.   thus the basis of our economic system is sociopathic to the core.  What kind of culture will a society based on sociopathy create, inevitably, over time?   One answer is an unsustainable one)

Meanwhile they feel entitled and superior as they are doing it.  This did not previously exist, not to this extent.  Previously society would not tolerate it past a certain point.   That has all changed as society has been brainwashed with what is real and normal by the very interests manipulating everything for their own self-interest.

These things are the definition of evil, and no, they did not previously exist to the degree they do now.  It is more than getting older and being less naive. 

Ari, I don't necessarily have a lot of answers on how to combat the influences of evil in one's life.  It is NOT easy, as you said.  I was suggesting we have a discussion about that rather than anyone telling anyone else how to do it.  What I am gradually learning in my own life is one has to stand up to it when it rears its head.  This is not always easy, and there is little external incentive to do so.  Things are constructed so you get your outer reward from ignoring it, and run risks facing it.  Thus it requires courage, and a knowing you must do it because its the right thing to do. 

Those words are easy to say.  They are a lot harder to act on when those influences are in your face.

I have a saying, "Evil eats its own".  Evil, the impersonal force, could care less even about those who carry out its work.  When they are no longer useful, they are abandoned or destroyed. That is the nature of evil - it is a destructive force, not a life-affirming force.  That's why we must in the end affirm the light - its the only thing that goes on and on, in constructive ways, forever.  Everything else can and will end.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Jeff L on Nov 17, 2009, 03:23 PM
I always liked the quote from Bucky Fuller "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." This certainly embodies the spirit of the coming aquarian age and there are already signs of it emerging here and now.

The most helpful thing for me to remember when evil begins to feel overwhelming is to remember the nature of the ages / yugas. Yukteswar's book The Holy Science is an excellent source on the subject. We are now in an ascending arc where the light of consciousness is increasing among the totality on the planet. Still, we are in this age which needs a lot of healing and I am deeply appreciating the effort in this thread to cultivate strategies to help us heal and move out of the darkness. Remember also what Wolf talked about regarding 51% / 49%...


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Nov 17, 2009, 11:27 PM
I've had a long busy day and just got to catch up with the discussion. Since it's now so late, and I'm very tired, I'll add a few comments and maybe try to add more tomorrow. Like Steve, I sure don't claim to be any expert on the topic, but I've sure had more exPERience with it than I ever wanted!   :o 

Inyo, Lesley, Steve, Ari, Dughlas, and Jeff, thank you all for your questions and input. There's a LOT of good, practical information in these posts, information that will, indeed, help people turn evil on its head. Lesley, thank you so much for both the extended explanation of how evil manifests and how to recognize it as well as that 'living' example. It helps to put even a metaphorical "face" to the name of evil and how it behaves. And thank you, Steve, for your extended explanation of how evil acts, especially its collective influence. I wholeheartedly agree that perhaps the key concept for our times is: "Evil, thy name is sociopathy."

I think another really important thing to keep in mind when identifying and dealing with evil is that the cases where it's so very obvious, like the example Lesley gave, or the sociopathic behaviors Steve enumerated, is that most of the time Lucifer/evil remains hidden as it works through our own "weaknesses" - emotions and behaviors intrinsic to our individual souls - and again when we set out to make deep changes, to know God, to evolve. For example, if we a masochistic pathology in which we always put our own wants and needs last, when we begin to earnestly spiritualize our life, we can find ourself making all kinds of excuses why we can't meditate, or practice our yoga, or whatever our practice is. This dynamic is already a part of us, so we don't recognize the INTENSIFIED excuse making as evil. It's this insidiousness that makes it so very difficult to identify in the first place.

As far as keeping evil at bay, what I've found is that it requires constant surveillance. One thing that Jesus said, many, many, many times, in his own effort to repel evil was say, "Get thee behind me, Satan." Wolf often reminded us of Jesus' words. This fits in with what Steve referred to that Wolf taught about how evil becomes more prevalent, more persistent as one gets closer and closer to realizing god/Self, closer to liberation. So we must ever remain "on alert" so to speak, because one of evil's favorite tactics IS to hide behind God. Another thing you can do tohelps provide protection is to weat a religious symbol of meaning to you; e.g., a cross, a Star of David, the OM symbol, etc. Another thing you can do is to simply keep the following words kind of running quietly and inwardly in your consciousness: I just want to know God; I just want to know God.

Back in 2000, Wolf did a full-day workshop on Lucifer in Phoenix, and he took Lucifer thru the signs, telling how it manifests in each one. In short and simple terms, the antidote for Lucifer's placement in each sign/house, the way to keep evil at bay and to realize it as the Bearer of Light lies in the polarity point of its placement in the birth chart by house and sign. So, if I have Lucifer in Scorpio in the sixth house, for example, the way to deal with evil, to embrace Lucifer as the Bearer of Light, is thru the polarity point of Taurus and the 12th house.

Inyo, Well, in return, I apologize for misunderstanding what you were asking. Wow, such a young one, eh?!

I'm not sure what you mean by "parasites," Inyo. Are you referring to some kind of spirit attachment, or maybe an INfluence of evil rather than a contract? I remember Jeffrey talking about the intensity of the Pluto in Scorpio generation, using the terminology, “with eyes like LASER beams.” I’ve known some of that generation with eyes like that.

Also, can you give a little more background on this soul, includinging what you think his evolutionary stage is, his race/ethnicity, his social class, and his religious conditioning. The last one (in my book), along with the evolutionary stage, would be especially important considering the stellium in the 12th house, including Pluto and the N Node, along with Saturn in Pisces in the 3rd, which squares the Lucifer.

I’m really picking up on some heavy involvement (past, present, or both) with black magic (Scorp Stellium in 12, with Leo Moon in 8th square Scorp Sun, trine Pluto,  and conj mars in Leo in 9 (the lower octave of Pluto,), which squares the Sun/Venus/Juno/JupiterAND the nodal axis, indicating a skipped step. The moon also inconjuncts the Saturn in Pisces. Does that fit his M.O. as you've observed it?


I hope this helps for now and gives people a place to start. As I said earlier, TR Lucifer is currently at 28 Gemini Retrograde. It will go direct at 15 Gemini on Feb. 4, 2010, and will enter Cancer on April 28, 2010.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: inyo on Nov 18, 2009, 05:04 PM
Adina I appreciate your time and thoughts on this. I was refering to a spirit attachment and how that differentiates from a contract and how one can tell the diff.

This soul was/is my stepson, my x-wifes son, my sons half brother. I'm not looking for a reading because I received some insights on his past lives from JWG years ago but we never got into evil and contracts and parasites and the difference at the time. It wasnt in fact a long conversation, more of him telling me how some of his stuff got there and where some of it came from.

So it has been some years since he was in our lives on a daily basis and we as a family didnt survive as a unit and there was quite a bit of emotional aftermath and years of emotional repair that we all have gone through and let play out. So because of that I dont want to lay out all the details for you because A. it's more like a major motion picture and b. there are just alot of emotions that I dont want to pull up right now. I do appreciate the offer and maybe I originally thought thats what I wanted and perhaps it would be helpful to some people but after a day of letting it sit and looking at it now, I just dont want to rehash it all again because I am in a good space and I dont want to let him in so to speak.

So if you do know anything about spirit attachments, parasites and all that would be good to hear. I guess my thinking is that if  soul has made a contract then that soul in any future life is particularly more open to dark influences and parasites/soul attachments as opposed to someone who hasnt made a contract. So can we have soul attachments on souls that have not made a contract? The answer is probably yes now that I see it written out.

Part of me is curious to know weather this soul did make a contract and part of me is just content knowing what I have experienced with him for years of our lives. I know enough to know that there is some heavy heavy , I mean like a lead ball, stuff inside this guy... anyone here would be able to feel it, I mean its so pronounced that it would almost take a blind person not to see/feel it. Part of me dosent care where it came from because I dont know what it would matter or change because he is not in our lives on a regular basis, not even in the same state anymore and I no longer have any influence on any decisions that are made in his life now.

Anyway Ive lost my train of thought, Neptune in the 3rd.....

hope this was semi-clear.






Title: Re: evil?
Post by: mountainheather on Nov 19, 2009, 02:01 PM
I'd like to respond to Steve's call for a discussion on what we do daily to contribute to the Light and losen the hold of Darkness. I like things like "Satan get thee behind me" although I wouldn't say it in those words. I choose things like "the value is in the effort" when I feel hopeless in making any difference at all (one of my weaknesses, and openings for darkness) I also call out in my thoughts things like "grandmothers find me, guide me" or "God'dess find me here", when I feel vulnerable. It's like casting out a line or striking a chord that resonates with a Higher state of mind within me, and an opening for God'dess to guide me immediately, and it works! 
I don't know if I've ever met someone with a contract with evil but I certainly have sucuumbed to the influence of evil in my life when I was vulnerable and seen it in others close to me and am dedicated to being a bearer of light for myself, and hopefully others.  Being vulnerable to evil is a very scary place if you have no tools, so thanks for asking about what we can do, I look forward to hearing from others! Sincerely, Heather
 


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Nov 19, 2009, 02:50 PM
Inyo, I have little experience with spirit attachments, but I do know that, Yes, one CAN have a spirit attachment without having made a contract. It's a very different thing. One of the other members of the EA Council, Patricia Walsh, is well-versed in dealing with them and is, in my book, a good resource to turn to for your question. I know she has a very busy schedule at the moment, but perhaps it won't be long until we can get some clarity from her.  I learned just a little bit about the issue when I took a Deep Memory Process training class with her, but not enough to answer your question. I know Pam Strugar, another EA and a frequent poster also took DMP when I did, so maybe she can weigh in on this as well. Sorry I can't be of more help with the spirit attachments. As far as knowing for sure whether your stepson made a contract, you are probably in the best position to determine that possibility since you've interfaced with him personally. Even at that, the signs that one HAS made a contract that Lesley reminded us of, sometimes are very evident and sometimes are not. IMHO, it takes a person who is very highly evolved (like Wolf) to be able to identify a person who's made a contract, unless, LIKE Lesley, they've seen or experienced some of the very overt signs.

Even though your stepson is no longer in close physical proximity to you, if he HAS made a contract, HE could still influence - affect - YOU. So I'd still suggest you be very careful.  :)

Heather, thanks for sharing some different (and yet very similar) ways that you "contribute to the Light and losen the hold of Darkness." I think much of how we do this is based on our own core belief system, so I appreciate hearing different ways of doing this. I myself lean more toward that inner message about knowing God that I mentioned in the above post, as well as simply calling on my guru, or picturing him in my third eye. OR, in very simple and direct terms to just FIRMLY tell evil to get away; there's no way it's going to get me because I belong to God'dess.

Also, thank you for sharing the fact that you have succumbed to the influence. I think any of us, if we're honest with ourselves, have in some ways at some time, done the same. The influence is just so much more insidious than we realize, and succumbing to it doesn't necessarily "look" at all like we would think. For the most part, I think we picture evil acting out in very overt and horrific ways, while in reality it can manifest in a simple argument, or putting something that we know we need to do for ourselves off, or....well, the list is endless. So thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this extremely important topic.

God bless.





Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lucius on Nov 20, 2009, 12:42 AM
An issue I have had over & over is with 'good' people & especially, most especially, is with 'spiritual' and 'new age' folks.  They can not accept evil for what it is..which of course I see as a manifestation of evil - the denial of it.  If you can't even accept it's existance - oh, boy will it have some fun with you!  Second, to deny the actual reality we live in is to deny our evolution & that it is happening...actually, philosophically to deny the reality of the existence of a force called 'evil' is to deny so many aspects of what we actual experience & why.  I have little tolerance for the new age BS with regard to it.

I was recently thinking..a few months ago..have gotten past it...thinking - 'would it be evil to wish to be some genius who would create a way to eliminate almost all humans but somehow retain all other living beings?'   I'm not kidding - I was wishing to be reborn as some evil genius.  But, I'd think...would that really be evil?  I have to admit, given my dark sense of humor, I did have a laugh at my aspirations..but, truly...if I could, would it be evil? (i figured guessing ends & means probably equates to big trouble & purposefully creating pain no matter the means would not be good...but, then you think of instances where folks who are aligned with evil do die or Joan of Arc who was a warrioress & planned wars that killed folks apparently on the behalf of 'god') & if I could would I?  I think not...simply because you realize you didn't create yourself, you didn't create reality & you cannot possibly know, on any ego-basis where it is all going....so, really, very few humans would be good for the planet, - but when you are in a situation where you are justifying means to and end I think you're in some deep doo-doo!  I'm past it, so I can laugh more..but, there were some dark times..I think it is steve who talks about the sociopathic nature of our society that sums up how I'd been feeling.  Very dark, very depressed, and at a loss.  Realizing the Great Spirit cannot be destroyed helped me - I got out of my own ego perspective and gave up! 

I'm just sharing my own little 'evil' battle.  I think, especially with the political nature of some aspects lately, I didn't have a firm grasp or perspective & became overwhelmed.  I hope not to be judged by what I've posted & not to be taken too seriously!  I just got sick of humans being evil, essentially - babies with STDs, animals skinned alived, the political rhetoric...however, that reminds me of a key issue - evil thrives on those feelings:  dejection, hopelessness, despair, anger & feeling like a victim, etc.  If you feel that way chances are you are focused in your ego and then those feelings are clues to your evolution which is how evil can work as 'lucifer' - the bearer of light.




Title: Re: evil?
Post by: mountainheather on Nov 20, 2009, 04:35 PM
Thank you Adina for your posts.  This topic is really on my mind and it is causing me to doubt my actions in a good way. I am recalling a story about the guy who brought buddhism to tibet, (Padmasambhava??)and how he tells a story of a guy who meditated in a cave for 20 years and faced all of his demons there, when he was asked what he did to resist them ,he said he told them if they wanted to sit and meditate with him, thats fine, otherwise, he'd pay no attention to them...I really like the idea of being focussed on the good,  while not denying the evil, just not giving it any attention.
After reading the Lucifer talk that you posted yesterday, I imagine there are times as in Jeffrey's case when souls are directly confronted and threatened with evil i.e. exorcisms , in which case harder to not give them attention.  But my experience in dealing with my habits, tendancies to be complacent, and compulsions, is there less overt or immediate threat here, the threat is that over time I make myself vulnerable to poor decisions or the influence of evil based on these weaknesses or seperating desires unchecked...so indeed my experience tells me evil is invisible because it counts me being complacent, or self deceptive or overwhelmed, then my simple seperating thoughts and behaviours can gain momentum without me noticing and I can "unknowingly" contribute to evil, not by actually causing it, but by allowing it.  That's what I notice about me. I have Lucifer in gemini conjunct my NN also conj Jupiter ruler of SN in 7th... squaring 5 planets including pluto so I've got my work cut out for me..holy moly I realised I think its :o time for a reading...

I find listening to devotional music of any kind and reading spiritually inspirational poetry or writing helps reorient me, also talking to people like you all about it and naming without blaming helps too. I am very greatful to you all, and Lucius, I appreciate your honesty too. Heather 


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Nov 21, 2009, 08:46 AM
Lucius -

In a way you were being too hard on yourself.  Reading your post, what I got you are REALLY saying is your awareness of the ACTUAL nature of life, what in EA is called Natural Law.  And your awareness of that, and your honoring of that because it IS what is, what is real - it is the nature of the actual God.  And you having that awareness, and watching millions, billions, of humans, alone among all species on this planet, denying this, spitting on it, mocking it, daily.  Believing all sorts of made up, twisted, distorted beliefs that let them rationalize and justify their life-denying, self-glorifying existences, on a moment to moment basis.

And it was the part of you disgusted with all of this, feeling that perhaps the planet would be better off without stupid humans mucking everything up.  That these thoughts were based on an honoring of what is, not some evil intent that wants to do great damage.  Rather that humans ALREADY do great damage, your desire being to tip the planet back TOWARDS natural law, to what is real.  So how can those thoughts be evil bad or wrong?

The only problem with them is they, in a sense, interfere with the free will decisions that Creator has granted to all humans.  The gist of it is, if humanity does not change its thinking, beliefs, and course of actions, what you described is EXACTLY what is going to happen, but of natural consequences, not requiring some evil genius to do this work. 

Because we do live in a reality with natural laws, there are limits to the degree to which any individual or species can violate those natural laws.  Because there are natural consequences for doing so, and OVER TIME those violations will create, are creating, massive changes in the experience of being human on earth.  An old saying is "you made your bed and now you can lie in it".  This is beginning to occur.  As side effect, these changes brought on by human behavior interfere in the life processes of all other species, also.  And that is what I heard you most upset about, that instead of using are capacity to be self aware to be guardians of all the life forms we find on the planet, we actually callously obliviously interfere with their own right for evolutionary choices with our own selfish reasons and decisions.

In the last year I was introduced to something Yogananda once said.  I don't remember the exact quote, but it was along the lines of civilizations (or was it planets, or galaxies?) are destroyed when they go completely over to God, or completely over to evil.  Think of the implications in that.  It means that planets have existed elsewhere that have gone completely in one or the other direction, this is a part of divine plan, natural law. That means, in any given life system, the possibility of evil totally, completely dominating such a system is not only possible, it has occurred.  And no doubt, many many times.  Just as civilizations that have gone all the way to God has no doubt occurred many many times.  What is the determinant?  CHOICE, by the species on that planet.   As I have learned in the last year, 99.5% of all species that have ever existed on earth are now extinct.  Where are the dinosaurs, who "ruled" the earth for millions of years, today?    Do you see where I am going with this?

Don't be too hard on yourself in judging yourself for what you were feeling.  It is a deep hard difficult journey for almost all of us to start waking up to the actual nature of the reality we live in, the actual nature of that which created us.  It is so different from all the fairy tales we have all been spoon fed since the day we were born.  I have sometimes said "who wants this kind of God?", but reality is we only get one kind of God, whether I like that or not.  It is what is.  And looking more deeply, the only reason I would find issue with the reality of the God we get, we express, we are, is from my own deep conditioning of how things are supposed to be that are so different than the way reality, God reality, actually is.  It is what it is, and that is all that it is, no more, and no less, regardless of my opinions about it.  Surrendering into that seems to be the one way out of this maze.  It is what it is, and it is only my own ignorance of what is that makes me feel it should be otherwise. 

We who gather here, for the most part, wish to manifest the good, loving, kind, positive side of the polarities.  It is our own Souls who resonate with this - that is the impulse we seek to carry out.  And we just have to do it, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much ignorance and even opposition we have to face in the process.  That is our job, period.  The more one moves forward the more one sees the degree of the opposite polarity.  In the end the positive is stronger than evil.  But at times, and temporarily, it can be a close call, and its possible, in the short term (in the cosmic sense of time), for evil to even be winning for a while.  Its at those times that those aligned with the light are needed more than ever.  And I would say, for many of us, that is why our Souls chose to be here at this time - for our own individual evolution, and to make a contribution to the collective as we walk this path from ignorance to awakeness.

It grows clearer to me that one of the best ways to remain aligned with what we know in a world of great darkness is to band together in small groups with those of like mind, exactly what we are doing here.  That is an Aquarian principle.  Think about it - the internet is Aquarian/Uranian, we are gathering using that medium, people physically spread out all over the planet, sharing like mind (an Aquarian principle), gaining strength and validation from the interactions. 

Jeffrey called Uranus, the ruler of Aquarius, "deconditioning" - the gradual elimination of false beliefs to reveal the truth that lies beneath them.  And that is the essence of what this thread is about.  It takes great courage to walk this path, and it can ask most anything of us, to give up things we may not want to give up.  As I am finding, in return for this, you get your Self back.  It's a pretty good deal, actually.



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lucius on Dec 10, 2009, 07:10 PM
Thanks Steve for your thoughtful, thought provoking reply.  I admit I haven't been here since I posted - frequently feel pretty stupid after I post - but, I think a part of me felt that I might be judged, and that expectation is because I do judge myself harshly and didn't come back until I felt emotionally ready.  Although I do deserve it - proper discrimination, not to sound like a masochist - but, I've a long ways to go and I figure I was born a Virgo to meet it head on!  I feel I don't express myself well either - but, you seem to hear me!  That's nice.

I was going through a tough time - and I was purposefully reading Black Elk and other Native stories, medicine people but mainly it was Black Elk - I would cry & cry and so I just would read every day or so or less but read him until I wouldn't cry so hard.  Reading your words made me start crying as I haven't felt since then!  I can't say much more - just thanks!


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Steve on Dec 11, 2009, 07:24 AM
... I think a part of me felt that I might be judged, and that expectation is because I do judge myself harshly and didn't come back until I felt emotionally ready.  ...  I've a long ways to go ...   I feel I don't express myself well either ...

... I would cry & cry and so I just would read every day or so or less but read him until I wouldn't cry so hard.  Reading your words made me start crying as I haven't felt since then! 

Lucius,
  It makes complete sense that you didn't come back until you were emotionally ready.
And, we ALL have a long way to go, even if not everyone can admit that.
You express yourself well enough that people with the ears to hear can hear where you are coming from within yourself.
I say again, how can anyone who cares about the natural reality NOT feel like crying some of the time, after seeing what humans have done, continue doing, to it. Its sacrilege, all done in the name of greed and selfishness, being passed off as some sort of virtue.
take care
Steve


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 21, 2010, 10:14 PM
Quote
Post by: Steve on Nov 17, 2009, 10:26 AM
In terms of moving this discussion forward, if any are interested, I think it would be quite valuable to discuss, given the reality of the present situation, what individuals who have no interest in feeding the darkness at all can DO, daily, to keep these influences at bay, and utilize the light-bearer side of Lucifer to help our own evolution, and through that, make a valuable contribution to the overall collective.

  I came across this thread, and I would like to add a posting to it (Thank you for opening this up, Steve).
  For my part, I try to do small things to make 'room' for others, to ease other's way...hold a door or an elevator with a smile, slow the car down to let the speeder cut in front of me, listen when another needs to talk...really listen.  I try to remind others of the divine within and behind all things, in a non-invasive way, when they are open to it and it seems appropriate.  When I see that someone is overwhelmed, I try to 'talk them down' so to speak, and maybe bring them back to their happiness, or remind them of themself, or...well...just listen, safely.  As I write this...I realize how small it is.  But, I do try to leave others truly laughing about...well...anything, as I interact with them.  I am considered a 'morale officer' as a running joke at my job, as I usually never leave a room without leaving others happier than when I entered the room.
  That was me for most of the time.

  However, sometimes, the pressure of others coming to get cheered up can weigh on me, and trying to figure out other's emotions (I have Aspergers) can wear me out, and I can withdraw and shut others out, and I have no ability to cheer myself up, and I am exacting with myself, and then...I can be rigid with others.  And, so, at that point, I think that I am then perpetuating darkness!!  Which causes me great sadness, and I can feel stuck.  And, so, and I try to isolate myself, not subject others to me...which is perhaps another way to not feed the darkness, I hope.   
  Until suddenly it can just...turn around...and I come back to myself...

  Lately, it is much worse, my internal darkness, and I am afraid that I am spreading much less Light.


  The following quote has helped me to begin to understand that situation (Thank you Adina).
Quote
Post by: adina on Nov 17, 2009, 11:27 PM
I think another really important thing to keep in mind when identifying and dealing with evil is that the cases where it's so very obvious, like the example Lesley gave, or the sociopathic behaviors Steve enumerated, is that most of the time Lucifer/evil remains hidden as it works through our own "weaknesses" - emotions and behaviors intrinsic to our individual souls - and again when we set out to make deep changes, to know God, to evolve. For example, if we a masochistic pathology in which we always put our own wants and needs last, when we begin to earnestly spiritualize our life, we can find ourself making all kinds of excuses why we can't meditate, or practice our yoga, or whatever our practice is. This dynamic is already a part of us, so we don't recognize the INTENSIFIED excuse making as evil. It's this insidiousness that makes it so very difficult to identify in the first place.

  Tonight, I asked my wife why she thinks I am in the last months in such pain, anxiety, self-loathing.  As an example, sometimes, I think I am right and know the truth of something, and then find I am not only wrong, I am so way off that my previous self-righteous behavior is a cause of my own extreme disgust with myself.  I have discussed this with her before, but this time, I said, 'Why can't I live as you do...with a gentle self-image?  Why is my own life's growth so crisis oriented...so pain filled?'

  She said, "Think naturally...  Isn't there anything in nature that grows without pain?  I think that a flower feels true joy as it blossoms...!"

  I said, 'I don't know how to do that...but I am going to go and sit with that thought...'  And I was meditating on that idea, and later thought to come to the site, and then I came across this thread, and thought that I might have value to add to it by sharing my thoughts on it.

  I think that many of the people who come to this site are growing without crisis...and without so much pain.  Is that true...is that possible?  Does anyone care to talk at that point...?

Quote
Post by: mountainheather on Nov 19, 2009, 02:01 PM
I choose things like "the value is in the effort" when I feel hopeless in making any difference at all (one of my weaknesses, and openings for darkness) I also call out in my thoughts things like "grandmothers find me, guide me" or "God'dess find me here", when I feel vulnerable. It's like casting out a line or striking a chord that resonates with a Higher state of mind within me, and an opening for God'dess to guide me immediately, and it works!

  Thank you for that line, Heather: 'Goddess find me here.'  Sometimes I can remind myself of the Divine Mother when I am in that darkening time, but almost always I feel unworthy to call out to her.  But, simply:  'Goddess find me here.'  Thank you.
  I am having great trouble shaking that self-image of worthlessness...  Any thoughts on that, anyone...?  A process or path that has worked for you...?

Quote
what we do daily to...losen the hold of Darkness

  Since I learned the chant, I chant the Gayatri Mantra when I am in the presence of evil, or feel external evil influences, but for a reason which still eludes me, it is very hard for me to remember to do it when I am succumbing to my own dark influence.  If interested, search Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_mantra) for details of the Gayatri's meaning, and search the Web (http://www.yogajournal.com/lifestyle) for a sound file with an authenticate pronunciation.  Or, Russil Paul has a book 'The Yoga of Sound' (http://www.russillpaul.com/yogaofsound.html) which has several chants, including the details of learning to correctly chant the Gayatri.  It is really not hard to learn, and in my experience is very powerful.
  Also, I try to surround myself with a mirrored bubble of divine energy when I feel the 'slimy' energy of someone who is Dark within.  I image a brilliant globe above my head, and use it to 'produce' the bubble around me.

  I have taken to wearing an Ankh, to remind me of the Great God'dess in Her Life-Affirming aspect...and I realized the other day that it is also the shape of the Venus symbol, which is sitting on my natal Moon's North Node, and so it also reminds me both to open my Heart as an evolutionary direction and to remember simply: "LOVE".

  I hope that this is of interest...and doesn't seem too self-serving...

Blessings to everyone,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 21, 2010, 10:24 PM
I admit I haven't been here since I posted - frequently feel pretty stupid after I post - but, I think a part of me felt that I might be judged, and that expectation is because I do judge myself harshly and didn't come back until I felt emotionally ready.  Although I do deserve it - proper discrimination, not to sound like a masochist - but, I've a long ways to go and I figure I was born a Virgo to meet it head on!  I feel I don't express myself well either - but, you seem to hear me!  That's nice.

  I too hear you, Lucius.  I have those same issues...feel stupid after I post - every time...feel judged - since I so judge myself...feel emotionally unready - but waiting for the next step...  I hear you.

Quote
I was going through a tough time.

  The times just now have taken on a tougher sheen for me as well.

  In speaking to you perhaps I too am speaking to me...!   In reminding you, maybe I remind me... 
  Remember the God'dess, call to Her and She can help...

Blessings to You,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Lucius on Apr 22, 2010, 07:29 AM
Thanks Stephen for the kind words. 

I do want to say I don't usually feel judged posting here - it was that particular post I felt that way.  Just feel stupid most of the time, sometimes I am, sometimes not so much!

I think I posted elsewhere that during last summer I came to the bottom-line realization that nothing destroys Spirit, even if we manage to destroy this earth and with all the evil manifesting....if it were gone in a wink, the Great Spirit still remains.  In some ways that may sound grim, but things are grim, at the same time it's a realization that relieves me and puts this reality into perspective.  I was just musing how difficult times, the Kali Yuga, can facilitate evolution.

Blessings to you, too, Stephen.  We are lucky to have such a nice community here!






Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Apr 22, 2010, 08:15 AM
Hi Stephen, well, what a synchronistic moment here on the MB, but before I get into why, I'll just say, bless your heart, Stephen. It seems you are, indeed, going through a rough time, but you are ALSO recognizing the energy at play, and it's from that recognition and acknowledgment that you can take positive action. As I've been reminded many times over the years, Jesus was "tested" by evil almost every day of his life and was constantly saying, "Get thee behind me Satan." So.....

Also, I don't know if you've posted your birth info anywere on the forum, but if you care to share it here, perhaps we can help with your crisis MO a little bit. With Mars in Virgo and s node/merc in the sixth, I'm all too familiar with crisis as a way of life.  ::)   :D   You also mention feeling a sense of "worthlessness," which to me means "masochism," i.e., "I don't deserve. I'm not good enough., etc." I'm sure you know the drill all too well. And yes, there IS a beautiful, simple, and inexpensive method that JWG used to teach to counteract those feelings of worthlessness, of masochism. And it works quite well. We can cover that, too, if you wish.

Also, Stephen, you said the following: "Since I learned the chant, I chant the Gayatri Mantra when I am in the presence of evil, or feel external evil influences, but for a reason which still eludes me, it is very hard for me to remember to do it when I am succumbing to my own dark influence." (emphasis is mine). But that in itself is a real "AH HA" moment, Stephen. Because that is exactly how evil works, again, because this is natural to you to begin with, and I hope you take that the right way. We ALL have our "weak" spots, and too, when we DO feel at our lowest, it leaves the gate wide open for evil in a way that I have found makes it even more difficult to recognize. The little bugger is quite perSIStent and INSIDIOUS.... as Jeffrey used to say, most of it remains hidden.... so no WONder we have difficulty recognizing it. That's evil's INTENTION. 

Back to the synchronicity. The "lovely" Lucifer will enter the sign of Cancer next week (April 28) and will remain there for the next three months - until July 29. I was talking to another council member about this and we feel it's a great time to look at this influence again, especially in light of what's going on here in the U.S. and the rest of the world, and of course, on an individual level since evil's primary way of getting to us is through our emotional body--where we're most emotionally weak. So I'll be starting a separate thread and starting with the U.S. chart, and then bring in more individual examples. In the meantime, we can also continue here.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 22, 2010, 09:08 AM
I do want to say I don't usually feel judged posting here - it was that particular post I felt that way.  Just feel stupid most of the time, sometimes I am, sometimes not so much!
We are lucky to have such a nice community here!

Oops...sorry for misunderstanding...

Oh yes, I agree...lucky indeed...!

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 22, 2010, 09:21 AM
Dear Adina,

  You are very very kind to actually respond to this.  I posted last night, and this morning was going to delete the post.
It took me four months to finally decide to post something about this.

  I am aware of the restrictions of the site, and DO NOT want to overstep.
    "-this is not a place to seek free personal counsel.
      -this is not a place to seek to get one's unfulfilled needs met, unless those needs are to learn more about EA!"

  I was doing very well, learning the paradigm, working the practice charts, interacting on this site (which is hard for me, truly)...and then it fell apart...
  I had realized how smart the postings are on this site, and so left here for awhile, to read more and more of the paradigm.  As you stated, in doing that, I fell prey to my own weaknesses...in this case, the need to be perfect before doing more of the practice charts.  I have worked hard on that internal issue since October, and so have learned some things about me.  So, I am getting ready to rejoin the group at my current level of knowledge (which actually hasn't increased all that much...unfortunately!).

Quote
Also, I don't know if you've posted your birth info anywere on the forum, but if you care to share it here, perhaps we can help with your crisis MO a little bit. With Mars in Virgo and s node/merc in the sixth, I'm all too familiar with crisis as a way of life.        You also mention feeling a sense of "worthlessness," which to me means "masochism," i.e., "I don't deserve. I'm not good enough., etc." I'm sure you know the drill all too well. And yes, there IS a beautiful, simple, and inexpensive method that JWG used to teach to counteract those feelings of worthlessness, of masochism. And it works quite well. We can cover that, too, if you wish.

  There is a practice chart thread with my chart, and I have been reading Lia's and Lesley's posts in that thread, and I plan to soon have a reading with Rad...yet even working on the suggested resolutions...to open my heart, working to be of service...afterwards, I still remain, and so does the self-inflicted darkness to which I allow myself to succumb.
  I would welcome any information.  I am NOT trying to be the center of a pity-party attention cycle (or am I...is that what I am doing...?  I do not know me anymore.  If that is really what I am doing, and you can see that and I can't...please don't feed into it...)
  I originally came to this site with a 'mentally record information' mindset, be-a-good-student, with an intellectual sort of distance between me and the material.  And, then, it kind of...snuck in...'under the radar'...so to speak.
  Now, at this time, I feel different inside...I need the knowledge to implement further changes in me, as I am on the road between where I started and where I am going, and the road is not illuminated right now.  I feel I need more details on the 'resolution phase' of this work...maybe I am blind to myself, and I have all the information I need...and it is a matter of doing it better, being more dedicated, working harder...?

Quote
Back to the synchronicity. The "lovely" Lucifer will enter the sign of Cancer next week (April 28) and will remain there for the next three months - until July 29.

  My natal Sun is 1deg16min of Cancer, and there is alot of emphasis on Cancer in my chart, so I guess THAT's a-comin'...!

Quote
So I'll be starting a separate thread and starting with the U.S. chart, and then bring in more individual examples. In the meantime, we can also continue here.

  I would be very interested in that thread.  I had decided to start collecting all the information on 'evil' and 'Lucifer' on this site and in the archived EA-MB and JWG's articles (I do not yet have the Phase.III Coursework, though), and was planning to edit it together for my own use as a compete overview...but then I thought that maybe once again I am overdoing what only needs doing, and I should just read it over and over...?

Well...MUCH more than I had planned to type, here.

Thank you so much again,
and May God'dess Bless Her Special Daughter in You...

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Apr 22, 2010, 09:45 AM
Stephen, please humor me and send me your birth data. I have not kept up with the practice charts thread, and it would take too much time to try to find it. You can send me a PM (top of the page), if you'd rather do it that way.

We won't do an indepth analysis with your chart, but I'm betting a few things will pop out that will help you understand what's going on and what to do about it.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 22, 2010, 09:55 AM
Quote
Stephen, please humor me and send me your birth data. I have not kept up with the practice charts thread, and it would take too much time to try to find it. You can send me a PM (top of the page), if you'd rather do it that way.
We won't do an indepth analysis with your chart, but I'm betting a few things will pop out that will help you understand what's going on and what to do about it.

Hi Adina, I am sorry, certainly...here it is:
Birth information: Stephen; June 23, 1962; 1:20AM: Washington, DC, USA

What I meant was that there is a practice chart thread about my chart:
Chart Practice with Client Feedback: Stephen (http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,56.0.html)

Thank you very much for any further help...

Sorry I was unclear,
Blessings to You,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Apr 22, 2010, 10:27 AM
Thanks, Stephen. No problem. I'm a bit fuzzy myself lately.   :o


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: mountainheather on Apr 22, 2010, 01:21 PM
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for re-igniting this thread here, I was wondering where you had gone...I don't post too often, but I read  the posts everyday... i'm glad you are back.
I empathize deeply with your sharing.  I am familiar with a life of perpetual inner crisis, and, with the discovery of ea found some relief and understanding and then further exasperation of my crisis state (one step forward, two steps back for me), so, I hope I'm not contributing to the "unfulfilled needs" category by wanting to see your process worked through here... thanks for the "goddess find me here" reminder, I forgot about that for awhile, and have been saying the serenity prayer lately.


Adina, thanks for your reply to Stephen

Quote
You also mention feeling a sense of "worthlessness," which to me means "masochism," i.e., "I don't deserve. I'm not good enough., etc." I'm sure you know the drill all too well. And yes, there IS a beautiful, simple, and inexpensive method that JWG used to teach to counteract those feelings of worthlessness, of masochism. And it works quite well. We can cover that, too, if you wish.


I would love to hear more on this topic.


Heather


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 23, 2010, 06:30 AM
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for re-igniting this thread here, I was wondering where you had gone...I don't post too often, but I read  the posts everyday... i'm glad you are back.
I empathize deeply with your sharing.  I am familiar with a life of perpetual inner crisis, and, with the discovery of ea found some relief and understanding and then further exasperation of my crisis state (one step forward, two steps back for me), so, I hope I'm not contributing to the "unfulfilled needs" category by wanting to see your process worked through here... thanks for the "goddess find me here" reminder, I forgot about that for awhile, and have been saying the serenity prayer lately.
Heather

  Thanks Heather for the kindness.  Just posting, exposing that stuff, has had an effect on me.  I feel more resolved to stick to the path of Returning to the Source.  I keep myself away from too much, already.  I can't understand that about me...maybe I shouldn't try, in the vein of 'Get thee behind me, Satan.'  Maybe I should just note the pull to keep myself away from things, and then not succumb to it.  However, under the Jungian concept of entering the darkness of the unconscious to bring it to consciousness, and so integrate it...I follow myself down into the pit of me, when a door opens.  If anyone can teach me the flaw of following that process, I would really appreciate it.

  This morning, I read this from Steve in another post (Planets as pre-existing pattern), the bold is mine:
"...the possibility of changing the past, in the present moment (the only moment in which anything can be changed).'  That is a simple, powerful, natural thought.  Thanks Steve!
  Will 'changing the past' occur by sitting in comtemplation of it, trying to root out its vagaries and elements, or by simply changing what one does?  That second method has always lead me to a sort of knee-jerk reaction, swinging to the 180degrees point which often introduced its own problems.  THAT is actually a process that I follow that I am absolutely soul-sick of doing...but I am not sure how to proceed.

  You put that very succintly ("the discovery of ea found some relief and understanding and then further exasperation of my crisis state").  That's synchronous that you say that about steps...my wife and I were just talking yesterday about sometimes its 'one step forward, two steps back' and sometimes its 'two steps forward, one step back', which ultimately has us covering the same ground, repetitively.  Maybe that's skipped steps in a chart, applying to actual life?

  As I read your post, I thought, maybe my process should NOT be worked through here?  Maybe I should be an EA Student here, and take the EA Client aspect off-line until I have mostly resolved it...then later, briefly post the resolution steps if anyone is interested?
  As I learn this new way of viewing reIncarnation (or, as I unlearn all the previous stuff I was filled with in order to awaken this old way, natural way, natural understanding), I am altered in a core way.  I cannot see how anyone who reads these concepts is NOT altered, honestly!

  By the way, that's become my new harbor for now:  "Goddess find me here!"  So clean, so simple.  

Thanks again,

Blessings,
Stephen



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Apr 23, 2010, 06:44 AM
Hi Heather,

Adina, thanks for your reply to Stephen

Quote
You also mention feeling a sense of "worthlessness," which to me means "masochism," i.e., "I don't deserve. I'm not good enough., etc." I'm sure you know the drill all too well. And yes, there IS a beautiful, simple, and inexpensive method that JWG used to teach to counteract those feelings of worthlessness, of masochism. And it works quite well. We can cover that, too, if you wish.

I would love to hear more on this topic.

Heather

I find myself more busy than usual, but I will write up that method and post it as soon as I can. I can vouch for its effectiveness personally, because I did it myself.   :)


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Elen on Apr 23, 2010, 03:16 PM
Hi Stephen,

I haven't had time to read all the replies to your post, but I wanted to respond to your question about whether or not you are the only one on this MB who grows through crisis.  I just wanted to say that you are definitely not the only one.  Crisis has been my main source of growth, although I am hopeful that I am transitioning to a more peaceful place.

Also, about "evil", I just wanted to share that this is a matter I have been wresting with lately, to the point that I've wondered if I'm not evil itself.  What helped me was something that St. John of the Cross wrote in one of his essays (in which he is explaining the meaning of his "Dark Night of the Soul" poem).  He writes, in the context of explaining the 1st dark night of the soul (he says there are 2): "...for the soul's greatest suffering is caused by knowing her own miseries; it is at these times that the soul sees with more clarity than the light of day that she is full of evil and sin, for God himself provides this light of knowledge in the night of contemplation..."  He further writes, "When a soul in such condition finds someone who agrees that all her troubles are her own fault, then her sufferings and distress grow without bound, and she feels, then, worse than death."  From the book, St. John of the Cross: Alchemist of the Soul by Antonio T. de Nicolas, Paragon House: 1989 (pp. 159-160).  He wrote the essays because he wanted people (spiritual advisors especially) to better understand the spiritual journey and so properly recognize the meanings of the experiences that people are having on their journey so that they could better/more appropriately guide them, ie, not respond in ways that unnecessarily increase the person's sufferings.

It was helpful for me to understand that these feelings and doubts are part of the path (part of the purification process), especially, I think, 1st Spiritual.  I'm thinking 1st Spiritual = Dark Night #1.

I hope the positive, uplifting nature of this quote (as this is how I experienced it) comes through and, if you are needing it, offers you some solace.  If for some reason it does not come through, please disregard it.

Peace,
Ellen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 24, 2010, 10:05 AM
Hi Ellen,

  Reading your response made me realize that instead of staying in the crisis, and using it to grow, I am staying on the edge of the crisis, and perpetuating it by trying to lessen it or make it go away.  That realization goes in deep...  (I knew this? forgot this? but now will action this...)  It's like I was reboot lately, and the memory was cleared for a new image to upload...  Strange, a sense-of-loss and yet a sense-of-gain...

  Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and taking the time to post this information.  I too had wondered lately if I am evil myself...had I previously made a contract as stated in the 'evil?' thread?  But, in my answering of Steve's question in that 'evil?' thread, 'What do we do daily to help promote the Light?', I realized then that even if I don't make great light-filled changes around me, mostly my heart is in the right place of spreading the Light and being aware of the Darkness...and trying to lessen the effect of negativity  (but not within me, then).
  Your heart is in the right place, as evidenced by your kindnesses: by your being moved to post a comment to me...sharing your experience and insight...helping to lessen my internal negativity by helping me see it in a new 'Light'!

  I can/will stop whining about me on this message board in full view of this community...and actually do something further about it. ;)  (Exposure in a way that you can't rescind about stuff you harbor is really very growth-inducing, I am finding.  But, this forum is really not the place...yet perhaps ((justification after the fact!)) what has been written here will help those who come to this site in soul-pain, seeking some resolution!??!  (Learning the EA Paradigm deeply turns one into an EA Client, I think.)

  Last night I had another crushing negativity session starting up...and simply said 'Goddess find me here' and chanted for a few minutes...then went to play Leggos with my son instead of journaling dark and negative thoughts about myself.  THAT is a positive change.

Blessings to You and the Path You are walking,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Apr 24, 2010, 12:26 PM
Ellen and Stephen,

I'm having a kind of "off" day, so I'll be brief for now.

First, I really appreciate your thoughts and understandings about evil/Lucifer. You both add much to this message board.

Second, in relation to the thought that you, yourself (each of you) might be evil... well, you've just proven evil's existence to yourself!  That is sure one way the little bugger works, i.e., it creates the opposite reality intended. In this case, you both are consciously moving toward the light, and so Lucifer steps in and, voila! He tries to plant the exact opposite thought. (Remember, Lucifer is still in Gemini until the 28th). And with the Virgo emphasis....he also plants DOUBT! 

So BRAVO to BOTH of you for immediately kicking the crap of the little bugger and tuning in to your true nature!


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 24, 2010, 01:54 PM
I just love you guys --Ellen, Stephen, Adina --all of u -- this  just so wild to read !

..i too have been worried and contemplating the very same things, whch i thought i had long peirced the veil of -  things like, "what if i am evil" -- "what if i made a contract somewhere" --"what would stop me from "joining in" w/ evil" --and all kinds of thoughts like that---

..how blessed to come on here and find that this is not original, here with me~

This is so exemplative of VIRGO massochism and doubt, and so much the result of the patriarchal religious dogma and culture.

Let us Consciously enter our emotional wounding in a Motherly Embrace ~


GRACE ABOUNDS
dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Elen on Apr 24, 2010, 02:36 PM
Thank you Stephen, Adina and Dhyana.  Tears are in my eyes and heart.

Peace to you,
Ellen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 24, 2010, 02:52 PM
...mine too Ellen~


And for all of us with strong Virgo tendencies especially, I leave the following quote...

...A Great and Most Loving, Recent Sage of India, Ramana Maharshi, once said "Self-Doubt is the Final Obstacle"


3~
Dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Elen on Apr 24, 2010, 03:15 PM
...mine too Ellen~


And for all of us with strong Virgo tendencies especially, I leave the following quote...

...A Great and Most Loving, Recent Sage of India, Ramana Maharshi, once said "Self-Doubt is the Final Obstacle"


3~
Dhyana

Oh, that is lovely and so perfect, Dhyana!  Thank you.

Ellen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 24, 2010, 03:24 PM
Thanks to all of you too, for being so naked on here...

...For not letting "how you may look or be interpreted" to stop u from sharing - what a gift -a far reaching gift ~

What Core Honesty and Integrity...

I'm speechless, really

Love, Love, Love
dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 24, 2010, 03:51 PM
I guess I am not done on this thread yet, bc i was re-reading a few pages back and I felt to share something again, as i read this from stephen:


STEPHEN WRITES _" Thanks Heather for the kindness.  Just posting, exposing that stuff, has had an effect on me.  I feel more resolved to stick to the path of Returning to the Source.  I keep myself away from too much, already.  I can't understand that about me...maybe I shouldn't try, in the vein of 'Get thee behind me, Satan.'  Maybe I should just note the pull to keep myself away from things, and then not succumb to it.  However, under the Jungian concept of entering the darkness of the unconscious to bring it to consciousness, and so integrate it...I follow myself down into the pit of me, when a door opens (bold mine).  If anyone can teach me the flaw of following that process, I would really appreciate it."
(And btw, this could have been me writing this Stephen. I mean I totally "get you" here... bc, like, you do not want to be avoiding or escaping anything either, u know? --what a fine line we walk here, and only we can tell the absolute truth, alone, to ourself, about what we are doing too, bc it can be so individual ... This  razors edge does require an inner peccability and a real self honesty.)

Well, anyway, along the lines of this same theme you were reffering to about following yourself down the pit, etc., (u know, what I bolded from your writing)-- Well, to comment on this --I was once told by a very wise EA astrologer who addressed this theme with me, asking me THIS; "do you think perhaps that you could be done ATONING yet?"

Very wise query to ask me, eh?-- maybe it is a good one for you too?  

And thanks stephen for reminding me about it.


3~
Dhyana



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 25, 2010, 09:48 AM
...you've just proven evil's existence to yourself!  That is sure one way the little bugger works, i.e., it creates the opposite reality intended. In this case, you both are consciously moving toward the light, and so Lucifer steps in and, voila! He tries to plant the exact opposite thought. (Remember, Lucifer is still in Gemini until the 28th). And with the Virgo emphasis....he also plants DOUBT! 
So BRAVO to BOTH of you for immediately kicking the crap of the little bugger and tuning in to your true nature!

Adina!

Simply: Thanks.  Before, I have read about this and read about this...and finally, that statement of yours drove it home.  Thanks for taking the time to post this...to reach me with this.  I think I get it...

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 25, 2010, 10:13 AM
And for all of us with strong Virgo tendencies especially, I leave the following quote...
...A Great and Most Loving, Recent Sage of India, Ramana Maharshi, once said "Self-Doubt is the Final Obstacle"
Dhyana

  PEACE TO YOU, Ellen!

  Dhyana, Thanks for that quote!  ((Does the fact that it is the final obstacle mean that you know have the courage to acdcept and transform the remaining obstacles??))  And, in the same vein, thanks for:
"do you think perhaps that you could be done ATONING yet?"
Oh YES...it is for this type of feedback that I posted, I expect.  What a help is here, what compassion on a shared path...thanks (from a re-opening Heart)

Thanks to all of you too, for being so naked on here...
...For not letting "how you may look or be interpreted" to stop u from sharing - what a gift -a far reaching gift ~

  OH, YOU GET IT...You get it...it was/is very hard for me to let go...(voluntarily - or was it pulled from me?)...to let go of the Myth of Stephen, the perfect student, never-unprepared, always harder on myself than my teachers (even in Martial Arts)...and MORE, which I don't need to belabor here...  The strain of that cracked me a bit, I have learned over the last months, and I asked the Mother 'What to do...?'  and was answered, 'follow the opening'  But, of course, I went overboard (literally, and was in DEEP water).  HAH!  I read a book very recently, 'Surviving Borderline Parents', and one of the clients stated, 'I can't live at my own level of expectation.  So, my new mantra, for awhile, is: "Strive to achieve mediocrity!" ' HAH again!  THAT was a good moment of clarity (you have to take that advice in the way that it was meant...I'm sure you get it!)

  So...Blessings and Peace to All who Read This,
Stephen


(And...back to Practice Charts thread...to read the past 30-odd pages in preparation for rejoining the group ...ya'll have certainly moved very far, very fast in THAT thread...Sincere congratulations!)

:)


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Eric on Apr 25, 2010, 01:01 PM
Hi Stephen,
So glad you have reappeared :).
Wanted to share some recent realizations which seem to coincide with your posting here again. Still a work in progress but our charts share some similar structure (Nov.'62 and houses less than 30 degrees apart). The resonance I felt with your struggle in previous posts is because I could easily project myself into the midst/myst./mist or maybe more appropriately fog.

So I'd like to share a small but vital bit of clarity which has appeared for me (and for which the ramifications are still unfolding) which I hope might be of value. If I'm off the mark please disregard this and forgive me for my continuing projections...

First off, I want to honor the eloquent way in which you have expressed your relationship and connection to Goddess. There is an undeniable feeling here, and you have a gift simply in being able to reflect the ultimate beauty of that truth to others. All of this stems from that feeling of connection which runs deep like a clear pool at the bottom of a waterfall, which stretches back to a long river, whose tributaries have stretched back into an entire watershed, whose mountains rise from a coastline...
In and of itself, that feeling remains unbroken. This I would say is the shimmering radiance in the mercurial nature of lucifer.

And then there is doubt, confusion,and a host of emotional baggage. Conscious and subconscious memories where in past, the soul has chosen lifetimes where unthinkable events have occurred and because of that another choice was made to distrust and disassociate with soul. As if our ego would have been able to make better choices on its own!

For me this realization initially surfaced after working with Patricia Walsh. She suggested that I might find some clarity through rebirthing particularly since in my solar return had a strong 4th emphasis. After going through that, it did indeed shed a lot of light on dynamics I have carried forward which were ego driven right out of the womb!

This is how that separation from soul showed up right from the get go for me. The influence of evil/lucifer in separating my soul from it's natural connection with source. Self induced.

I had asked my mother about the circumstances surrounding my birth, and the only part that stood out because her pregnancy was was good and uneventful really was that she was overdue by a week or so and her labor was induced.
Going back into her womb, prior to the birth I found myself in a place which was unparalleled in comfort. Like being held in suspension with source. Warm, dark, timeless, utterly secure- no awareness of outside anything. Only unity with the feeling that all was perfect.
As my birth approached, my awareness began to stretch outward. Extremely subtle feelers began to emerge out of the feeling of perfection towards my external circumstance preparing to unfold. So far so good, but my soul knew something was about to transpire.
Soon, those receptive feelers began to receive signals (pitocin)that change was eminent and immediately my ego was born before my body. Soul stretched out into the room, looked around and found the doctor willfully interjecting. My ego said, what the fuck are you doing!, I'm not ready to come out yet!, you're fucking up my whole plan!
And the trap was laid. Ego simultaneously remembered and forgot that soul had hatched a plan. In that moment ego said "don't trust soul, don't trust doctors, don't trust anyone who thinks they know better than you, we were shooting for a moment just a bit further down the road, and now you've gone and shot that plan all to hell".
What ego didn't fathom, is that maybe if it carried out plans according to it's own desire, maybe it would have put my mothers health in jeopardy. In fact several days later the moon would be in conjunction with pluto and that's where I think the little "i" was headed.
Which brings me back to trust. Upon reflection, it seems that there was a guiding hand there. That while the little "i's" desire was thwarted, there was a larger picture unfolding where the hand of grace came in and averted a potential disaster.
While this is a personal story, there are some ties which appear in our charts, so I am hoping it is useful if only to point towards another potential avenue where some clarity might be obtained. Of course, your birth story will have it's own nuances, but I have found this one exercise illuminating.

Neptune in the 8th/Sco. (loss of soul)squaring not only the lunar nodes, but Neptunes nodes in opposition to Mars which itself squares the nodes. Also with your Venus conj. the N.Nodes of Moon/Neptune Leo 5th you are wanting to actualize that connection with Goddess, it's just that there has also been a desire to separate your soul from that experience because of trust issues and doubt with your own soul -Pluto/Virgo/6th.

So it seems to me that redemption is at hand. Goddess is inviting your soul back home. Ego and left brain exercises need a break, and those feeling tentacles which you yourself described in a previous post reach back toward her. They work in both directions.

Another point I found interesting is that you had said you had been wearing an Anch, the symbol of Isis/Venus. In your chart the asteroids Isis, Osiris, and Lucifer are all conjunct Pluto. Since you are wearing her symbol I'm sure you are familiar with the story. Isis and Osiris who were brother/sister/lovers also had a brother Set or Seth, who seems to look a lot like Lucifer to me. Patricia Walsh in her new book (which is exellent!) correlates Scorpio to Egypt so this story also seems to fit with your Neptune and aspects to your Pluto stellium.
Archetypally, all of these characters can play out their story within our own story. Osiris is murdered by his own brother (ego) and torn to pieces (soul fragmentation). He is reborn and immortalized through the help of his sister (divine lover/Goddess). Still trying to figure out the deal with the poor bastards penis being absconded by a fish or alligator:) Maybe it ties in with circumcision which is another thing soul didn't give me a heads up on (so to speak)! Regardless, a story to sit with I think.

One more bit relating back to birth and hospitals to ponder for those so inclined. Pitocin  is a synthetic formulation of oxytocin which naturally sets birth in motion. Pitocin contains a preservative called chlorobutanol which is a chloroform derivitive. Nice.

Goddess Bless,
Eric
 
 







 


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: mountainheather on Apr 25, 2010, 03:00 PM
Thanks Adina for setting up the post about masochis. (and to the others on the mb at work here) I have started the process of writing down the negative side and am surprised at the amount, deluge, of negative talk going on...strangely, or not, I came on the mb to re- read about the technique you posted and I cannot find it here anymore, has it been posted to another thread? on the path of light....Heather


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Elen on Apr 25, 2010, 03:07 PM
Thanks Adina for setting up the post about masochis. (and to the others on the mb at work here) I have started the process of writing down the negative side and am surprised at the amount, deluge, of negative talk going on...strangely, or not, I came on the mb to re- read about the technique you posted and I cannot find it here anymore, has it been posted to another thread? on the path of light....Heather

Hi Heather,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here as I was just responding to Adina's post.  It's on the thread called, "Technique to Eliminate Masochism".

Wishing you well,
Ellen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Wendy on Apr 25, 2010, 07:55 PM
Back to the synchronicity. The "lovely" Lucifer will enter the sign of Cancer next week (April 28) and will remain there for the next three months - until July 29. I was talking to another council member about this and we feel it's a great time to look at this influence again, especially in light of what's going on here in the U.S. and the rest of the world, and of course, on an individual level since evil's primary way of getting to us is through our emotional body--where we're most emotionally weak. So I'll be starting a separate thread and starting with the U.S. chart, and then bring in more individual examples. In the meantime, we can also continue here.

Hi Stephen, Adina, Dhyana and all,

Thank you Stephen for posting your experiences.  You surely are not alone.  Many of us have been faced with some heavy energies, me particularly over the last several years.  I am soooo glad Lucifer is moving out of Gemini!!!  It has been in Gemini since June of 2009 and is finally moving on--the little bugger!!!  I have lots of mutable planets (all four signs), and all directly aspect my natal Pluto-nodes, so lots of karmic stuff and challenges to my peaceful and spiritually sincere life.

Prior to that Lucifer stationed in Pisces and retrograded, making its stay in Pisces extensive (April 08 - January 09) too!  It's been a true test for the mutable signs for a while now.  I guess it's our turn :( or was! 

I didn't have a label for what was happening then, as I just learned about Lucifer a couple of months ago.  So now that I am consciously aware of it, I can really feel it's impact and influence and I feel better equipped to manage the challenges and opportunities it brings.

Much love to all...may the force (of light) be with you Stephen!

Wendy


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Wendy on Apr 25, 2010, 08:13 PM
Patricia Walsh in her new book (which is exellent!) correlates Scorpio to Egypt so this story also seems to fit with your Neptune and aspects to your Pluto stellium.

Goddess Bless,
Eric

Thanks for sharing this--I felt pulled to order Patrica's book and your sharing helps me understand why. 


Wendy


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 25, 2010, 09:34 PM
(Revision of earlier post)

Hi Stephen,  you are very beautiful and open. I love that in you!

...so, in reply--

IN REGARDS TO- the following quote...
...A Great and Most Loving, Recent Sage of India, Ramana Maharshi, once said "Self-Doubt is the Final Obstacle"


Stephen Writes- "Dhyana, Thanks for that quote!  ((Does the fact that it is the final obstacle mean that you now have the courage to accept and transform the remaining obstacles??))"
  Stephen, please, do bear with me on this lengthy post bc I am promising that it is all leading to my specific response to the question you pose above. So again, please bare with it bc it is going somewhere.... it is a cohesive whole~

Ramana Maharshi has also been quoted to say it this way, also -"The ONLY Obstacle is Self Doubt"-

In the context of EA, and from the most clear and contemplative heart space I can write from, I will give you my experience with the quote, and I will try to overlay it with my EA experience,
--(and keep in mind, I'm no expert on the subject, but just BEING HUMAN and as HONEST as possible. While knowing how I have been resonating deeply and directly to the penetrating vibration of that quote, and a deep heart contemplation of it over the last 17 years of my life. In that,  I suppose it is my duty to respond, from my own experience and share w/ out thought of how I will be interpreted or seen-- so here goes my best, from my HEART and SOUL, & humbly so )--

 There is no DOUBT that ones REAL nature is SOUL(Self, in Ramana's language).  I mean we know we didn't make ourselves, so even logically speaking, we must be then, THAT same stuff, from whence we came = SOURCE (Soul), isn't it?
 
So therefore, anything that arises that has us Doubt THAT, we must clearly discriminate(Virgo higher octave) it for what it is --a lie, a denial, about our very nature.

And surely, living this lie about our very nature, living in denial, can be, and is being experienced and lived by the majority, as if it were literally true (Virgo DENIAL)! -- That we are not from whence we came. It is almost as if, because of it's utter obviousness, and it's simplicity (although not simplistic), it can so easily be shrugged off, trivialized and denied.

--  Simply look at the state of the world; this experience of living in DENIAL of our NATURAL SELF/SOUL/SOURCE[/b]), is killing us!---All the separating desires in EA terms... And we cry "victim"  (and "victimizers") (Virgo).

But in Reality, in actuality, it is a lie, a denial of our SOUL... and in living that lie, as if it were true, we perpetuate all the ills and cruelty we do here. And I believe much of this is the result of layer and layers of unconsciousness all hemmed upon an unnecessary guilt, so much so, that we don't even know it is there, it is so buried! There is so much repression from that we are all lashing out at eachother, some of us as victims and some of us as perpertators.

 We could stop lying to ourselves about our REAL Nature, (break free from Virgo Denial etc. etc.) our NATURAL SELF, our SOUL SELF, what we Naturally are!  As much as to stop DENYING our REAL Love Call, our legitimate Need and Deepest Soul Wanting of THIS, of what is NATURALLY SO and NATURAL TO US, and really, really embrace it, all the way!  And that's what many of us here are doing. But in doing so, we also must embrace the  emotional pain that is eons old, that is the result of long lived lifetimes of denial. It is still all there, whirling in our genetic make-up, to be MET!  And that is not at all comfortable --so that is where we may feel these seemingly numerous "obstacles".

Let me try to get to my point with all this IMHO---
The best I can do at the moment, with words is to say that, in my own experience, I sense that the seeming obstacles come along with our choice and journey to finally know who we are -- and in OUR THAWING OUT PROCESS, or in this "merging/evolution process" as EA might put it, from the lie and our untangling of this intricate web of denial and lie upon lie, that is old and ancient.

This thawing out and unwinding this knot of identification that has been held so tight for eons, is not too comfortable, is it? Did you ever do that experiment with your fist? Where you hold it really really tight for many minutes and then slowly try to reopen it?  Well, IT HURTS, and it hurts A LOT! And at times, while opening it, it actually gets stuck in one spot --try it it and see.

Well, I think the seeming many obstacles can be likened to all that pain and stuck-ness you must go through to get your hand all opened up, but the real or ONLY obstacle was actually, the realization that YOU HAD YOUR HAND CLOSED and it is meant TO BE OPEN  and in that CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE you had, you made the most obvious CHOICE, consciously,  TO DO SO, you know?  I mean it would be the OBVIOUS OPTION, simply because, you desire your HAND TO BE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE!  And you don't do it because your "a good boy" or because "it was spiritually right" or because you were "morally required"  to, YOU DID IT BC IT WAS/IS NATURAL for you to do! -- Even though it hurts while opening it, and you also know it is gonna feel stuck in one spot once in a while! You still chose to open it, nonetheless, so youre obviously just going to get on with it, right?
It was/is just what WORKS!

ALL the overlay of patriarchal spirituality is almost designed to have you feel like there is this big battle inside you about this OPENING to your SELF or SOUL, but the crux of it is based on something that is "moral" rather than something so NATURAL, and this has led to such UNECESSARY GUILT, (layers and layers of guilt, on top of an ancient denial of such OBVIOUS NATRUAL-NESS).  It's just so crazy to me!  I believe JWG said that over 80 or 90% (not sure exactly) of guilt is CONDITIONED! ... I almost wonder if it is even more?

Anyhow, IMHO, it is really NOT some moral thing here to BE TRUE to YOURSELF, it is simply NATURAL to you and IT is the only thing that REALLY WORKS! It's FUNCTIONAL, but not always COMFORTABLE!

Now, coming back to the quote, and the word "SELF" in that quote --it is not like we are talking about some "transcended existential "Self" to remove us from the whole mess & escape into, or something! That is 'old hat' --and part of the undiscriminated mind ( Virgo lower vibration), and hence, still part of the lie....It also denies the EARTH, our MOTHER, hence still very patriarchal, in theory. It is not like we are supposed transcend the pain and take off in some exalted higher self or something --you know? It is not that kind of thing that the "Self" in the quote above is referring to (at least not in my direct experience). My point with this paragraph is this -- There is no longer an ESCAPE ROUTE from the rawness of LIFE, as it is --but at least it is REAL --at least it isn't a lie!  And that's not comfortable, but it sure is HONEST. (And I must acknowlege my dear teacher for her relentlessly pointing me into this clarity!)
  
So, the uncomfortableness that is occurring as one claims back their Natural Soul/Self, (or with the hand example  'When One Realizes The Hand Is To Be Opened) can be what you are referring to as "remaining obstacles", But Stephen, keep your EYE ON THE BALL which is obviously,YOUR NATURAL NATURE, Your SELF/SOUL/SOURCE; or whatever you call it - and ESPECIALLY NOTE YOUR NATURAL LOVE of IT, NEED for IT, WANT for IT, AND this DIVINE LONGING FOR IT!  )We/you don't need to DOUBT it and second guess it  because IT'S obviously the only real thing about us/you! . And in my experience this lifetime, that's what I try to do-- "keep my eye on the ball", and yea, it is not always obvious either, but the more I do it when it is obvious , the more I can do it when it is not!--You get what I mean there? And just expect that in this unwinding, everything under the sun, often in the most sublte, surprising and undetectable ways, is going to occur, especially when we get too comfortable for our own good, hence static and resisting our continuous and precious flowering of our NATURAL SELF.

...Why? Why would we be thwarted etc. --I would humbly say, so that we can KNOW, beyond a shadow of a DOUBT -- the true Heart Knowledge, that this IS REALLY SO!
 what we ARE is, just the SAME as REALITY is! And there is nothing that can truly get in the way of REALITY, now is there?  But this has to be HEART KNOWLEDGE, not theoretical, not even in the subtle states of the mind, you know --and this challenging process, I sense, is designed to ANCHOR such! And to do so, SO COMPLETELY that there is no longer the ability to DENY it!  And so how else can that happen without being RIGHT HERE IN THE DANCE, FULLY ENGAGED and fully challenged, on the very fabric and tapestry of our existence?  Wow, what a SACRED DANCE! We are so lucky to have a human incarnation!


In having Reality dawn on us, we can choose to no longer DOUBT what is Real, as us -- just because IT IS. Even if we have to choose 100,000 times a day, over and over.

"The ONLY Obstacle is Self Doubt".



SO---  best we stop trying the control game to feel "all better"--it isn't gonna work anymore.

--Let what is REAL,simply be REAL for us. --- IT IS WORTH THE Uncomfortableness. Let us have the courage to BE OUR SELF, NATURALLY!

Again, your question was-


"Does the fact that it is the final obstacle mean that you now have the courage to accept and transform the remaining obstacles??"
I would say ,Yes. And there is really NOTHING ELSE TO DO at this point, if we tell the truth about it!  Keeping your eye on the ball, on YOUR SELF & on YOUR UNDENIABLE LOVE FOR THAT --this will muster up all THE COURAGE u need!  Is it not the very FOUNTAIN OF STRENGTH, the Strength of Pure LOVE of DIVINE MOTHER (and remember, SHE GIVES BIRTH to LIFE through her agonizing birthing pains!)?  Is it not also the Strength of your very LIFE FORCE, hence the same thing that has given rise to the COSMOS?

So, I would say that this courage is NATURALLY available in this, even if we don't always "feel" it at the moment, we somehow KNOW in our HEART it is there.. would'nt you agree?  Oh, and remember the other way it was quoted "THE ONLY OBSTACLE  IS SELF DOUBT"

So YES, I would say,yes -- how about you?


This is not a theory I write or anything --it is words that have sprung from my own direct experience, nakedly, as this moment, from the depths of my SOUL.

I hope it was useful and in service to  REALITY.

3~ Know Thyself 3~
Dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 25, 2010, 09:35 PM
PS.    :o WOA! I needed that, Stephen, just as much as you may have. In fact, probably more so. LOL. I just re-read it and I cannot even believe i wrote it,  Where did that come from!? LOL!

(yet even this i just said, "i can't even believe i wrote it" precludes that i am some static thing. Well, I can't articulate this any further bc then it will turn into some "woo woo" thing, that i don't mean it to become --hmmm? i will just leave this one alone) tee hee  ;D

So, thank you, dear Stephen, for the opportunity again --4  reminding me ;)

ALL LOVE,
Such Grace,
3~
Dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Wendy on Apr 25, 2010, 10:05 PM
Hi Stephen,

I just read through the entire post you shared in this thread from last year.  I learned so much and I am so grateful you had the courage to share your heart here.  It really is giving me much more insight into myself and others.  I too have Pluto in Virgo, though aspected differently, so the masochist thing I understand.  When I first found JWG Pluto book, just reading the description of Virgo of traumatizing for me, but I couldn't stop reading, over and over.  I wanted to understand more.  That was thirteen years ago, and I am still learning so much. 

Also, I am fairly new to the EA forum and I appreciate participating in this thread.

Blessings,
Wendy


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 26, 2010, 02:46 AM
ps. i just thought of something i heard about "guilt"

"guilt is not a feeling state, it is A THOUGHT, or a THINKING STATE that is avoiding FEELING something deeper."

well, it went something like that...

very virgo/mercury, eh?

3~
Dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 26, 2010, 07:52 AM
To All,

Eric,
  Thanks for taking the amount of time to post that information...to reach out to me...and also reach into yourself.
  It was very very helpful...a 'Voice of Remind' that could have come echoing up from deep within myself, it was so right on the mark.

   Several years ago, I was at a reading of the Osiris/Isis story, and a flood of energy splashed into my chest, and I lost knowledge of me, and then lived each part in the tale (even the blinded ferry guard) as it was told to the group.  In some cases, I was acting out before he spoke...even parts of the tale that I did not know.  I was drawing symbols on the floor (hurt my finger nails!), crying/moaning/beseeching out to the Earth to help me find the direction to the parts of my beloved Osiris (when I was Isis), with blubbering heart-wrencing sobs (I was told afterwards)...  I was the fierce hatred of life and rule as Set, I was gentleness and kind order as Osiris...  (It was rather disruptive for the others, I was told later by some... ;) )  Just throwing that out there in response to the Egypt thing.

  I have held myself away from the Mother...and am learning why, now.  I didn't accept my previous-life choices is a part of it, as you stated.  Yep, I have heard it and heard it...and now know I will action it.  My son (8yrs) told my wife and I about a month ago:  'I don't like this chanting you guys do (he calls us 'you guys' sometimes!), I don't like it when you Bless me and Bless the food and Bless the bedtime...AND I don't like God!' (ending on a defiant note, arms folded over his heart).  I just smiled, gathered him in for a hug, and asked him why?  He doesn't know, and 'You'll make me angry if you talk about it.'  So...another hug and a bigger smile, and I let it (and him) go (for now).
  However, he is one of the most compassionate people I know...truly compassionate in his heart, and not working at compassion like me.  So, I now realize that this distance I have placed between the God'dess and me was so that I could learn how to come back, and then translate that return into how to help him to come back, as he becomes ready (and of course any others who let God'dess reach them through me).
  I have been through a rebirth ceremony, and in reliving it...I almost died, choking and choking, and the hatred from my birth mother!, and it took the help of the moderator to convince me to breathe (yes, drama...drama...drama!).  Afterwards, I called my mom and casually was like: 'So...nice day, yeah?...um...so what was my birth like...?'  She said I was born with the cord around my neck, I was scrawny, and I died on the table and had to be resuscitated.  Then, equally casually, 'You were an unexpected pregnancy...'  and what I got was (from the rebirthing) also unwanted.  Unwanted in the womb...unwanted on the table...unwanted as a child.
  So...yes, lots there.  And now I know from EA to ask, 'Why did my Soul choose to be born into these circumstances?'  And the answer is coming to me from readings, from posts such as yours and Wendy's and Dhyana's and Adina's and Heather's and Steve's and Rad's and Lia's and Lesley's and....everyone's... overflowing with compassionate knowledge to ACT upon (and occasionally a nudge into action, too, yeah? ;) ).  This is itself a lesson-through-example in compassionate helping, in caring counseling.  I needed to learn this right-brain caring apparently before learning the left-brain technology of EA (which itself leads us back to the right-brain = Virgo to Pisces).   For me, the quest for information has changed into a pursuit of knowledge to actually implement (and not to just learn and place into files!).

To All,
  Apparently, posting this has helped others to post...and more importantly, look within.  (If this is blurring over into social networking, then it is the best kind!!)  The knowledge of the past and the Why? is the Technology/Brain of EA, but the implementation of the resolution seems to me to be the Soul/Heart of EA...the actual resolution phase of this work.  I read recently in a How to...Therapy type of book, that the resolution of an intense emotional state often requires an equally intense emotional state - simply 'knowing' the occurence is not always enough, the knowing often needs to occur in an emotional way...there must be investment.  Perhaps, for me (and others here who this thread has touched/activated?) the exposure in such a public forum was the crucible which created that intense emotional state.  (I am sleeping better, now...anywho...)

  So...thanks to everyone who has helped me to invest...and perhaps, has become more invested themselves once again...?!?

Blessings to ALL you wonderful helping Souls,
Stephen

To Wendy,
Quote
Much love to all...may the force (of light) be with you Stephen!

Thank you Thank you Thank you...And with YOU!!


To Dhyana,
Quote
you are very beautiful and open. I love that in you!
. . .
I hope it was useful and in service to  REALITY.

Thank you very much...and right back atcha ;)
Your posting was very welcome, very timely, and so 'spot on'.  I have printed it out to carry around and reread...  Soooo well said...


Blessings All
 


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: adina on Apr 26, 2010, 08:02 AM
Thanks to ALL of you who have been posting to this thread and supporting each other. The topic of the thread is 'evil,' but as we all know, the flip side of Lucifer as evil - the antidote - is Lucifer as the Bearer of Light.... and that's what I see in all these posts....  the Light Bearer in action.


God bless!


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Eric on Apr 26, 2010, 11:18 AM
Hi Stephen,
You are welcome and thank you for having the courage to expose yourself here. To reference Patricia again she says "see , you just can't make this stuff up". The symbols correlate to actual experience and visa versa.
Also I wanted to say thank you to the moderators for occasionally allowing the space for some of these personal stories to play out a bit here. For those of us with Virgo/doubt tendencies, the opportunity to see these correlations through actual experience is useful in bringing EA home.

Also to touch upon what Adina wrote:
Quote
Thanks to ALL of you who have been posting to this thread and supporting each other. The topic of the thread is 'evil,' but as we all know, the flip side of Lucifer as evil - the antidote - is Lucifer as the Bearer of Light.... and that's what I see in all these posts....  the Light Bearer in action.
and combine it with what Stephen says:
Quote
the Technology/Brain of EA, but the implementation of the resolution seems to me to be the Soul/Heart of EA...the actual resolution phase of this work.
When the "technology"/tool or left brain information of EA is wedded to the Heart/Soul of Ea the true power of this paradigm manifests into a momentary celebration of union, thus sewing the seeds into the fabric which surrounds us as we transition through these times...
Thank you all,
Goddess Bless.
Eric


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 26, 2010, 02:06 PM
Also I wanted to say thank you to the moderators for occasionally allowing the space for some of these personal stories to play out a bit here. For those of us with Virgo/doubt tendencies, the opportunity to see these correlations through actual experience is useful in bringing EA home.

Rad, Deva, Adina, Steve, Moderators et al.,

I would like to second that!!

Thanks and Blessings,
Stephen

:)


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 26, 2010, 03:08 PM
Also I wanted to say thank you to the moderators for occasionally allowing the space for some of these personal stories to play out a bit here. For those of us with Virgo/doubt tendencies, the opportunity to see these correlations through actual experience is useful in bringing EA home.

Rad, Deva, Adina, Steve, Moderators et al.,

I would like to second that!!

Thanks and Blessings,
Stephen

:)


----------------------------------------

Yes, me too --Thank You. I know how long the one I wrote ended up being, and I thank you truly. I won't make a habit of that.

Dhyana



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Elen on Apr 26, 2010, 07:25 PM
Wow, Dhyana...  What you wrote really hit home with me.  The whole thing, but especially this:

"This thawing out and unwinding this knot of identification that has been held so tight for eons, is not too comfortable, is it? Did you ever do that experiment with your fist? Where you hold it really really tight for many minutes and then slowly try to reopen it?  Well, IT HURTS, and it hurts A LOT! And at times, while opening it, it actually gets stuck in one spot --try it it and see.

"Well, I think the seeming many obstacles can be likened to all that pain and stuck-ness you must go through to get your hand all opened up, but the real or ONLY obstacle was actually, the realization that YOU HAD YOUR HAND CLOSED and it is meant TO BE OPEN  and in that CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE you had, you made the most obvious CHOICE, consciously,  TO DO SO, you know?  I mean it would be the OBVIOUS OPTION, simply because, you desire your HAND TO BE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE!  And you don't do it because your "a good boy" or because "it was spiritually right" or because you were "morally required"  to, YOU DID IT BC IT WAS/IS NATURAL for you to do! -- Even though it hurts while opening it, and you also know it is gonna feel stuck in one spot once in a while! You still chose to open it, nonetheless, so youre obviously just going to get on with it, right?
It was/is just what WORKS!"


Thank you so much for sharing this.


STEPHEN, what a wonderful conversation you opened up.  Thank you.

Wishing you all well,
Ellen



Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 26, 2010, 07:32 PM
 yes, that was indeed my favorite part too ellen! i almost think that that was all that was needed, really.

(well, with my jupiter in h6 leo, i do sometimes go overboared, i must admit --tee hee)

anyhow, i know what you mean about that part bc i still get so much out of reading it myself, as if i didnt even write it!

love to you ellen, my soul friend,
dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Elen on Apr 26, 2010, 07:33 PM
Dhyana,

This, too, was right on for me!  

Ellen


ps. i just thought of something i heard about "guilt"

"guilt is not a feeling state, it is A THOUGHT, or a THINKING STATE that is avoiding FEELING something deeper."

well, it went something like that...

very virgo/mercury, eh?

3~
Dhyana


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: stephen on Apr 27, 2010, 09:03 AM
Quote
STEPHEN, what a wonderful conversation you opened up.  Thank you.

Ellen,
  Oh Yes...this thread has touched me (and probably many others who are not posting a response!)
As Adina said, this thread, and the support it represents, is the Bearer of Light itself helping us 'kick the little bugger's' own Dark Side (thanks for that, Adina).

Quote
...bc i still get so much out of reading it myself, as if i didnt even write it!

Where did that come from!? LOL!

Dhyana,
  Sometimes (it seems to me) a person's internal wisdom flares forth when an external event (question, crisis,expectation) sparks it...  I am soooo glad you were 'sparked' and you shared the blaze!

  Other than what you and Ellen wrote as especially illuminating (which I agree with, btw), here is the part which WHAMMED me upside the head (in a GOOD way! :) ):

Quote
...this has to be HEART KNOWLEDGE, not theoretical, not even in the subtle states of the mind, you know
...so how else can that happen without being RIGHT HERE IN THE DANCE, FULLY ENGAGED and fully challenged, on the very fabric and tapestry of our existence?  Wow, what a SACRED DANCE! We are so lucky to have a human incarnation!

And:  this next part reminds me of a poem I once read, by Anne Dillard from 'Teaching a Stone to Talk' (I think):
Quote
...choose 100,000 times a day, over and over.

I have printed that out, and hung it over my computer at work (really):

100,000 TIMES A DAY...OVER AND OVER

Blessings,
Stephen


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: PamS on Apr 27, 2010, 12:51 PM
Hi All,

thank you all for sharing so much of yourselves, I very much appreciate it... And to Stephen, I have thought I was evil many a time... I know I have battled with those forces, but as one wise (ass or sage- sometimes no difference) said if you were really evil then you would not be asking yourself the question to being with....  I think there is much to be gain from diving into the depths so hang on and keep on keeping on.....

Dhyanna,

The insight about quilt,  guilt is not a feeling state, it is A THOUGHT, or a THINKING STATE that is avoiding FEELING something deeper."...


I agree with you and I dont... Gulit is a feeling, but as Wolf says and this has been my personal experience.  There is conditioned quilt and there is unconditioned quilt.  Wolf has the example of natural quilt, If you throw a baby in the street and it dies, you should feel guilty.  If you deeply take advantage of someone, you should feel guilty.  I have heard lots of people talk about guilt, some say it is UN processed remorse, guilt is for an audience, remorse is for your soul etc etc....  James Hillman the Jungian analyst says guilt is a   profound way he has to find consciousness..... 

Per your example, guilt just might be a cover up for other feelings, it sounds like you have lots of the Virgo overlay ( as alot of us do around here- including me)... But your relationship to guilt might be intellectual, but underneath that is a guilt that is natural.. once again as with so much in this process, differentiating between the two will be and is the task.....



blessings,

pam


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: Dhyana on Apr 27, 2010, 01:31 PM
Yes, Pam. What you stated is the same sense I felt when I posted that quote. And I am not even sure if that is how it was worded, anyhow.  My point was/is as you said -- the crux of it being, telling ourselves a story and staying in the head to avoid the experience of the emotional body (atleast that has been a tendency in this life, for me). Wether that be to avoid a natural remorse (which I thank you for clarifying), or an emotionally painful experience induced by taking on a false dogma.

Thanks for your clarification.


Title: Re: evil?
Post by: PamS on Apr 27, 2010, 01:55 PM
Hi Dyanna,,

yes makes sense to me.... but as you said you have lots of virgo. Whoever told you that you need to stop attoning seems right on to me.     ... and in your case the overwhelming guilt is something that needs to go... but I trust you when you say that your work is sinking into the emotional body and the more and more you do that the easier it will be to differenciate between the quilt that is conditioned garbage and natural remorse.... as well as the feelings that the guilt is covering up.....

thank you for sharing your process.....

xo pam