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Author Topic: EA's view on gender identity challenges  (Read 81 times)

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« on: Mar 03, 2015, 01:44 PM »

I'm curious if there is a general view in EA on people who relate to their gender as something fluid rather than fixed or people who think they were born into the wrong body and are willing to undergo treatment to change their gender.
Are they some kind of pioneers pawing the way for humanity's realization of the arbitrariness of socially conditioned gender roles? Or is it different from case to case?
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 03, 2015, 04:22 PM »


You only need to post your question once. One of the moderators will answer you as soon as they can.


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« Reply #2 on: Mar 03, 2015, 04:48 PM »

Hi Romana,


The following quotes should help in answering your questions:

Wolf taught, as well as many others, that all Souls are inherently androgynous. And this is because all Souls are reflections of the Creator who is the Origin of the male and female principles in the first place. Yet all Souls choose to be in one gender, preponderantly, over the other gender for their own reasons: a choice to be made by all Souls. Yet, at the same time, for evolutionary reasons all Souls must of course, at times, manifest themselves in the opposite gender in order for a very long evolutionary journey to occur which finally leads back to where all Souls started: their inherent androgyny. And, remember, that the ‘ego’ itself is but a reflection of the Soul: it does not, and cannot, exist of itself. The wave manifests from the ocean: it cannot exist of itself. So the ego of any Soul then reflects the gender of the Soul.

Example: the Soul of John Lennon preponderantly chose to be female most of the time in its prior lives due to the fact that his natal Pluto in his 4th and in opposition to his 10th house MOON. And, of course, his Pluto being conjunct his natal Vesta, with the North Node of Vesta also conjunct his natal Pluto, and Vesta itself.

All Souls are male and female in their essence: essentially androgynous. As Souls evolve back to their Creator they must shed the limitations of conditioned gender definitions that emanate from the consensus of whatever societies they live within. As this occurs the Soul begins to remember, in some way, the fact that it is essentially androgynous. On the other hand it is also true that any given Soul will manifest predominately in one gender over the other but when this inner androgyny is progressively realized, remembered, then the NATURAL expressions of the masculine and feminine archetypes manifest which then makes such women and men VERY different as compared to the conditional gender identifications, thus roles emanating from the consensus of whatever society. God is the Origin of All Things: thus male and female while itself is inherently androgynous. (Rad)

Another thing that has been taught here, is that as a Soul evolves further into the Spiritual stages gender switching becomes MORE commonplace as the Soul is itself androgynous. Progressively over many life times, the human ego, as it becomes more identified with the Soul itself, becomes less identified with the form of the body it inhabits. (Ari Moshe)

What is interesting to me is that I am finding this deeper feminine energy within myself and it feels great and truer to my essence. It seems to reflect the North Node of Pluto in Cancer and that we all need to re-discover the divine feminine within, so we can evolve past the patriarchal rigidity and false beliefs, which lead to judgements and distortions of what we truly are. (Skywalker)


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« Reply #3 on: Mar 03, 2015, 05:20 PM »

Hi Romana, Rad and Linda,

When you say "relate to their gender as something fluid" do you mean as relating to themselves in ways that enables them to express their masculine and feminine sides? In other words they accept themselves as being a combination of both energies.

In essence we are both and in my understanding as we evolve we learn how to integrate them in a way that allows for a fuller expression of ourselves and identify less with a specific gender.

Specific reasons for any given circumstance or experience are generally on a case by case basis.

Souls who cannot relate to their current gender can be for various reasons but in EA we learn about recent gender switches in which a Soul lives a few lives as one gender and then takes some time, possibly more than an entire lifetime, getting used to the other gender after a switch. I believe in Pluto Vol 1 Jeffrey Wolf Green compares the experience to getting a new pair of can take a while to get used to them.

Generally Pluto in the Fourth and Tenth Houses can indicate a recent gender switch just as the Nodal axis of the Moon in these Houses or corresponding signs (Cancer/Capricorn axis) and also the conjunction of the Moon and Saturn can all indicate recent gender switches.


Is there a way to see in the chart how recent it was, if the switch was one or two or three lives ago? I was thinking about this recently actually. Using the example of Pluto in the Fourth House, if Pluto would be very close to the IC, would it indicate the switch would of been quite recent and further away from the IC it would mean it would be less recent?

Thank you

All the best

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« Reply #4 on: Today at 02:46 AM »

Sorry, Rad, I was getting some error, and didn't know it was posted at all.

Thanks for the info Linda and Skywalker. It answers my question to some extent.
I'm not very attached to the idea of my gender, and I'm more or less okay with playing (or playing with) the gender role that goes with it in this culture while in my inner life I hold it as something arbitrary.
This body is what god gave me and it's all I've got to work with. I do understand how one gets to hate ones body having history of bulimia, but I struggle with imagining one would go through so much hassle as to be surgically changed even. It looks like wanting to be who you are, yet not accepting who you actually are (could it be down just to hating ones body, with there being an individual reason for the focus on sexual signs?), this combined with the social pressure to fit into the binary, could probably make someone feel like changing the body is the best option. This gives rise to another question - I guess it would produce some consequences to be dealt with in the next life times; what could those be?

My experience (I admit that I have very little) with people with the signature of souls who have made a recent gender switch is of people who have often equal views on both genders and who don't put much weight on having a particular gender.

I hope this makes sense. I don't even know how to formulate the questions as it's something I have really no understanding of.
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« Reply #5 on: Today at 06:39 AM »

Hi Romana

I found this article today that might be interesting for all to read.

God Bless, Rad

India's transgender mayor – is the country finally overcoming prejudice?

They’ve been insulted, forced into prostitution and discriminated against for decades, but now India’s hijra transgender community has one of their own in power. Eesha Patkar meets Madhu, the mayor of Raigarh

Eesha Patkar in Raigarh
Tuesday 3 March 2015 06.00 GMT
The Guardian

Dayanand Anglo Vedic Convent School is normally a nondescript institution, hidden in the labyrinthine alleys of Chandmari, Chhattisgarh. But last month the school’s courtyard was transformed with a bright, multi-coloured marquee, and the students were whispering excitably.

When the special guest finally arrived, her presence was imposing. Six feet tall and clad in a stiff Nehru jacket over a yellow silk sari, Madhu Kinnar brought a grand, ceremonious air. The school’s director introduced her to the students, honoured her with garlands and then ushered her to a set of hurriedly placed plastic chairs to observe the school dance competition. Every few minutes, a young boy or girl would turn around to stare at her in fascination.

It’s clear why: Madhu is a hijra (or kinnar as they’re known in parts of Chhattisgarh and north India), a transgender woman. The hijra community is largely discriminated against throughout the country. In Raigarh, however, Madhu occupies celebrity status (and like Madonna, goes by one name). On 5 January, the voters of Raigarh – population 137,097 – elected the 35-year-old Madhu as India’s only transgender mayor.

    It was on the streets she became acutely aware of what she still considers her city’s biggest urban problem: sanitation

Most hijras are transgender women born male but who identify as women or “in-between”. Usually shunned by their families or mistaken for eunuchs, transgender Indians often join the hijra community – a relatively organised, hierarchical system in which new members follow their reet (tradition) of becoming a chela (disciple) to an elder hijra guru to learn the ways of navigating society on the fringes. These customs include begging for alms and singing and dancing at weddings and births for luck.

Only a year ago, Madhu was singing and dancing on the streets of Raigarh as a means of earning her living, a habitual form of livelihood among hijra communities across India. It was on those streets that she became acutely aware of what she still considers her city’s biggest urban problem: sanitation.

“There were no proper sidewalks,” she recalls . “The alleys were dirty and piled high with garbage. Poor people, abandoned in their old age, slept in the streets with nothing to keep them warm. We decided to do something – by running for this election.”

The initial signs were not encouraging. Not only did Madhu have no particular qualifications or experience, but India’s two previous transgender municipal leaders – Kamla Jaan of Katni, elected in 1999, and Kamala Kinnar of Sagar in 2009 – were pejoratively termed “eunuchs” by the media and, within two years, asked to step down by their town courts who declared their candidacy “null and void” for contesting in the female category.

    Most of the young men in Madhu’s camp are dissatisfied former members of Congress or the BJP who’ve since defected

But a couple of things were in Madhu’s favour. First, last April, the Supreme Court of India declared the transgender community as a legal third gender, granting them minority rights and privileges to education, employment and health benefits.

Second, and perhaps Madhu’s biggest advantage, was that she decided to run as an independent candidate. Like most of India, Raigarh’s seats of power have chiefly been controlled by two main political parties – the Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) and the Indian National Congress Party – both of which have earned the Raigarh public’s ire for their inability to achieve progress.

“Neither BJP or Congress have managed to get any work done in Raigarh in the last 15 years,” said Ramesh Singh, a party aide in Madhu’s team.

Singh, originally a member of the local Congress party, first noticed Madhu when she was campaigning door-to-door with some of her kinnar brethren. He resigned from his party to join her. In fact, most of the young men in Madhu’s camp are dissatisfied former members of Congress or the BJP who’ve since defected.

When Madhu defeated the BJP’s Mahaveer Guruji by 4,537 votes, a Congress party member snidely called it the “BJP’s loss, not Madhu’s win”. Madhu herself was unperturbed. She says the people of Raigarh were just happy to see her come forward.

“I was born in this city and almost everyone here knows me,” she says.

Born Naresh Chauhan, she dropped out of school in her mid-teens and left her family to join the local transgender community. Calling herself “Madhu” – the last name “Kinnar” derives from her community – was a step in disassociating herself from her given male name. As expected, she faced prejudice. “We’ve been made fun of, bullied and called names because we’re nothing more than kinnar to them,” she says. “If we danced somewhere, people thought we were bad luck.”

She expected a similar reaction after gaining public office. “I was apprehensive at first,” she says of her inauguration day. “I had never appeared before such a huge crowd – all those powerful councillors, officers, and deputies.”

But she says she didn’t experience any problems, and believes she has seen a change in behaviour across Raigarh, with everyday citizens treating not only her but her fellow kinnars with more respect, calling her Mausi (“aunty”) or Didi (“sister”). She also quickly made a name for herself as a down-to-earth politician, riding to city hall on a borrowed scooter or by rickshaw, or getting a lift from anyone willing to give one. (She did, however, ask for a bodyguard, just in case.)

    In reality, Raigarh has bigger hygiene problems than dirty ponds

That down-to-earth approach is literally evident in her daily management of local affairs. Every morning at 7am, Madhu and a small team do the rounds of the local wards to tackle her main foe: sanitation. She spends much of her time harassing city workers to fix clogged wells, pipes and unhygienic gutters. Problems like these tend to remain ignored in India if someone higher up isn’t pressing the issue, and Madhu’s politically savvy staff – familiar with the years of bad governance – have insisted on overseeing it themselves.

She has also trained her gaze on the Sanjay Complex vegetable market, which supplies produce to all of Raigarh’s 48 wards. “The conditions of this market are really unhygienic, and the traffic makes things worse,” she says. “We want to clean everything first, give it a structure, each vendor a proper stall, and take care of all the drainage problems.”

Though cleanliness and hygiene are the cornerstones of Madhu’s agenda, she is also looking into some of her constituents’ suggestions about cleaning and filling up some of the lakes and ponds that have fallen dry, and “creating gardens or small park spaces for old people to walk and children to play.”

In reality, Raigarh has bigger hygiene problems than dirty ponds. The district is a major coal mining centre, and home to Jindal Steel and Power Ltd, one of the biggest industrial firms in India. Trucks pass through Raigarh all the time, polluting it with coal dust that has plagued the city’s inhabitants for decades. Madhu’s solution smacks of nimbyism: “We want to reroute the truck traffic to the outer roads of the city, so that Raigarh’s citizens are not affected by the powder and dust flying off the trucks.”

Madhu – who has never left Raigarh – also seems sanguine about the status of the transgender community in general. She says she’s not looking to make any big efforts to improve their impoverished lifestyle. “Our true roots lie in this tradition of naach-gaana (song and dance), not politics,” she said. “But it was something carried on mostly by our elders, our gurus. For the younger, educated kinnars, I wish for them to be a part of society and find jobs – but only if they desire it.” (Madhu’s personal assistant Kunti is a kinnar too.)

In general, she paints a rose-tinted picture of the place of transgender Indians in the city. “I don’t think there’s any discrimination [in Raigarh] any more. Sab mit gaya hai [It has all vanished].”

    The Supreme Court decision didn't have anything to do with my winning. It was God’s grace and the love of my people

Given the circumstances that the transgender community in India continues to face, Madhu’s blithe declaration is rather a surprise. Historically, India’s “third sex” has been excluded from all social, cultural, political and economic spaces, leaving them vulnerable to physical and sexual violence, and poverty. In 1871, the British Raj enacted the Criminal Tribes Act, under which certain tribes and communities were considered criminal by birth – including “eunuchs” or those who “dressed or ornamented like a woman in a public street”. Only in 1952, five years after independence, did prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru repeal the act, calling it a “blot on the law book of free India”. Although India’s transgender citizens finally won suffrage in 1994, they had to wait until 2012 for the Election Commission of India to add a new category to the electoral roll, “Other” (activists have demanded it be changed to “Transgender”; the Commission has so far refused). As of 2014, only 28,314 voters were registered as “Other” – a far cry from the 2011 census count of 490,000 transgender Indians.

More broadly, Indians are often ignorant about the nuances of gender identity and sexual orientation, mistaking all transgender women for hijras. According to a UN Development Programme report in 2010, HIV programmes in India until recently grouped all transgender women into the category “Men who have sex with men”. There’s a high prevalence of HIV and sexually transmitted diseases among gay men and hijra alike, and almost half report being forced into prostitution. Many more turn to begging.

Madhu claims Raigarh has transcended all this. She points out that she is also a member of the Dalit (“Untouchables”) caste, but says she doesn’t give much weight to either label, and considers her victory a matter of “luck and fate”: “I don’t think the Supreme Court decision had anything to do with my winning. It was God’s grace and the love of my people.”

As she tried to quietly slip away from the school dance, her departure predictably turned into a fanfare. Some people came forward to touch her feet and seek her blessing, others requested photos. In India, touching an elder’s feet is a sign of respect, but more so among hijras: most Indian still believe in the superstition that their blessings or curses can come true. Perhaps a hijra politician is not such a wild idea after all.

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« Reply #6 on: Today at 08:18 AM »

Hi Skywalker,

"Is there a way to see in the chart how recent it was, if the switch was one or two or three lives ago? I was thinking about this recently actually. Using the example of Pluto in the Fourth House, if Pluto would be very close to the IC, would it indicate the switch would of been quite recent and further away from the IC it would mean it would be less recent?"


Yes, that is possible but there are other possible indicators of this that are linked with the planetary rulers of the 4th and 10th Houses, aspects to them, the planetary phase between them, the phasal relationship between Saturn and the Moon, Saturn and the Moon's relationship to the Nodal Axis, and so on. For example JWG, in his early years, volunteered his time working for what was called the 'sexual minority center' that was a place for transgender Soul's to seek counseling and support. He wanted to understand this as deeply as he could, and make the astrological correlations based on his observations and interactions with those Souls. One of the correlations he found in those Soul's that actually wanted to surgically change into the opposite gender of birth was a Moon/Saturn balsamic phasal relationship in about 90% of these Souls. It was, relatively speaking, a very small sample of such Souls so any hard conclusions about that as 'the' indicator of this were never taught by him. He mentioned it in his teachings as to keep an eye out for when dealing and working with such Souls.

God Bless, Rad

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« Reply #7 on: Today at 11:09 AM »

Thank you, Rad! I'm getting some intuitive inkling of what this is about with the Moon/Saturn phrasal relationship. That's really helpful.
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