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Neptune Conjunct Pluto

Started by Sree, Aug 26, 2015, 01:05 PM

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Sree

Hi All,

Is there anything specific with evolution when Neptune conjunct 1. Pluto 2. nodal axis ; especially when taking into account Neptune as the Source. I have read in Pluto 1 book about the specific evolutionary and karmic factors relating with Pluto conjunct nodal axis .Is there any specific factor exist if Neptune conjunct Nodal axis.

Thank you
Sree

Skywalker

Hi Sree,

Pluto conjunct a planet means that the Soul desires to metamorphose and thus evolve that planet´s archetypal meaning in the persons life. How Neptune is experienced will vary depending on evolutionary level, sociological conditioning and the persons free will. One of the highest forms of this aspect could be a desire to merge with the Source.

Any planet conjunct the South node of the Moon indicates that the Soul is reliving dynamics relative to that planet and it´s archetypal meaning. In some cases it can mean the person is in a state of fruition and brings forth some form of talent or gift connected to the archetypes of the planet conjunct the South node and also the house position and sign where they are located.

A planet conjunct the North node indicates that the archetypal dynamics of that planet have been worked on in the previous life to a point and still needs to continue to be developed and integrated into the evolutionary path in the current life.

All the best
www.mettarocks.com asteroids, crystal info and more

Sree

Hi Skywalker,

Thanks for the clarification.I have few more question from what you have wrote.

QuoteIn some cases it can mean the person is in a state of fruition and brings forth some form of talent or gift connected to the archetypes of the planet conjunct the South node and also the house position and sign where they are located.

Is this possibility of fruition present for both New phase and Balsamic phase conjunction.
Is the intensity of experience which lead to the awareness of such gift or talent varies with new phase and balsamic phase conjunction.Do awareness of such gift is easier through  balsamic phase conjunction than New phase .

QuoteOne of the highest forms of this aspect could be a desire to merge with the Source

When we say " highest forms of this aspect "does it points to a person in the spiritual level of consciousness.What is the generalized way a person act out this aspect if he is in a third consensus state.Is he just uses the polarity phase to move forward.If that is
the case then how long he can be in this phase in this manner.And my feeling is as long as he is ready to move.And the inner emptiness as part of balsamic phase becomes the factor which make him ready to move forward; along with cataclysmic action .

Thank You
Sree

Skywalker

Hi Sree,

Yes, there may be fruition in the balsamic and new phase conjunctions to the nodes.

I don´t know how to answer your question about the intensity and awareness of the gift or talent as that is going to be unique to each Soul.

Relative to the Neptune Pluto conjunction, yes in the spiritual stage it could be a symbol of someone that consciously desires to merge with the Source. In the third stage consensus it could mean a desire to follow one´s dreams within the structure of society, one dream after another and those dreams could be anything. We have an example of this aspect in the chart of Hitler. He had Pluto conjunct Neptune in the 8th House in Gemini and had an unlimited desire for power over others which he attained partially thru brainwashing the German people with his oratory skills.

The amount of time a Soul stays within a certain phasal relationship will depend on its own evolutionary pace in my understanding. There can be resistance to the culmination of a cycle which can mean that it will take longer to complete whatever the Soul is attempting to culminate. 

All the best
www.mettarocks.com asteroids, crystal info and more

Sree

Hi Skywalker,

I think it is OK to ask few more question in this thread, even though it is not related with the title,.
as the question got raised in my mind as part of what you wrote regarding Hitler.

Hitler with his unlimited desire for power and  oral skill made people ( large number ) to follow him blindly.Surely a good number of people were able to see Hitlers madness and thus didn't follow him.But many who didn't follow also suffered (- persecuted) as part of this collective madness .So my question is what lesson those in higher state of awareness has to learn when they suffer persecution .Example of such persecution includes Mahatma Gandhi (Third Individual State),Jesus (Spiritual Level)etc.Why do these soul didn't have a choice or is that they choose hardship (persecution) consciously for the betterment of collective .

Thank you
Sree



Skywalker

Hi Sree,

i think in the case of Jesus it was different than most other persecution cases because he simply was serving the Source in whatever way the Source needed him to. 2000 years later and his message of compassion is still strong and he is a symbol of love and compassion, peace and unity for billions. Maybe it wouldn´t be that way if he had not been persecuted.

There can be various reasons for a Soul do create the experience of being persecuted. A conscious or subconscious need to atone for guilt, a need to humble the Soul for various reasons, and karmic retribution for persecuting others are some of the most common reasons in my understanding.

All the best
www.mettarocks.com asteroids, crystal info and more

Sree

#6
Hi Skywalker,

QuoteSome who have been karmically destined to play the role of a martyr or victim in order  to realize their own lessons in judgment have left us with inspiring testimony to this kind of twelfth house truth concerning judgement and forgiveness .Jesus of course is a paramount example -"forgive them father ,for they know not what they do".....Jesus had neptune conjuct the south node in scorpio and six planets in pisces opposed pluto and mars retro in virgo.The ruler of Jesus's north node in taurus was venus in pisces.

What you wrote and what is written in Pluto book 1 page 226 ( quoted above) looks some what confusing (-may be i am wrong) .As you pointed out" he simply was serving the Source in whatever way the Source needed him to'" is completely true by seeing his teaching and the way it is helping many to find peace within.Now in the book it points to karmic destiny and also lessons in judgment.So what does that means? Is karmic destiny not based on our action and choices in the past.Then even in higher spiritual level the past karmic imprint which need balance ( atoning) can be very intense for some soul based on individual karma.

Thank You
Sree

Skywalker

Hi Sree,

I understand what you are saying based on what you read in that paragraph but if you read carefully the part saying "Some who have been karmically destined to play the role of a martyr or victim in order  to realize their own lessons in judgment have left us with inspiring testimony to this kind of twelfth house truth concerning judgement and forgiveness"

Forgiveness is the KEY word here as Jesus in my understanding at least, would not have any karma linked with judgement. JWG was teaching about the archetypes of Pisces, Neptune and the Twelfth House and used Jesus as an example of forgiveness.

Karmic destiny in my understanding is based on the choices of the past and present and also evolutionary necessity. The karma you are asking about in whatever evolutionary condition is unique to each Soul and yes it can also be very intense in the spiritual level of evolution. In the case of Jesus I think it was his destiny as a form of service to the Source and the planet to have the intense experience of being persecuted and killed in the way he was.  

All the best
www.mettarocks.com asteroids, crystal info and more

Sree

#8
Hi Skywalker,

I was looking within myself that made me ask the above question regarding Jesus.

One thing i felt is that if it was God intention( taking destiny as God intention) for Jesus to be a martyred which he completely surrender ,then is that means in the third spiritual state there is a natural law which ask for martyrdom ,Which i felt as a unnatural law especially that even such an act of martyedom do not guarantee that a particular teaching  is practiced and established in the right way as taught ,instead ,through correlation,we can see that the teaching itself had also been distorted like any other teaching.
So it means individual conscious level, through life experience, is what matters than the teaching itself.

So is spiritual matryed ,in third spiritual state, part of natural law.

Really i felt more acceptance by taking it not as a natural law ;and in the case of  Jesus it was a free choice from his part to  surrender to whatever going to happen as part of his teaching ie his choice than God's intention.

Also i have read somewhere here that in second spiritual level there is chance for developing  spiritual ego for the soul .If true then do there is a chance for third spritual level soul to have spiritual dream.A dream where all soul become awake and be perfect.When say perfect i mean all souls are ready through forgiveness to live with imperfection.Which in the lights of evolution seems impossible as it is a process.


Thank you
Sree

Skywalker

Hi Sree,

No I don´t think it´s part of natural law to be a spiritual martyr in the spiritual state of evolution. It can happen but will not necessarily happen to all in this stage.

I´m not sure what you mean by "spiritual ego" as long as there is an I, and identity that is separate from the Source then there is always an ego.

In the second stage spiritual there is generally a tendency for the ego to inflate and can create delusions of grandeur, of being superior or special or more entitled etc because the Soul has already achieved a high level of understanding, and has had inner experiences and realizations that leads to an expanded awareness compared to the vast majority of other people. In this stage thou, there will be a downfall that will help purge the Soul of these egocentric delusions of grandeur.

I would think that in any stage of development Souls can dream of helping others evolve their awareness and purify themselves in varying degrees depending on their own awareness level.

All the best
www.mettarocks.com asteroids, crystal info and more

Rad

Hi Sree,

Let me jump in here and say that martyrdom, being a martyr, does not occur in natural law. It only occurs when natural laws are distorted and/ or suppressed. Jesus had his own individual and karmic evolutionary past that then lead to the life wherein his Soul chose to martyr itself on behalf of the God that lived within him.

All Souls have an ego whatever the evolutionary condition is for any given Soul.

God Bless, Rad

Gonzalo

Hi,
In my view, experiences of persecution can be also ignited simply by differentness relative to the social context. Within this, natural desires to improve or revolutionize the social context serves by iteself to create persecution, relative to the nature of these times. Here the persecution serves as a means to induce an awareness of such differentness, and/or about the specific social context the individual operates within. I'd also expand the notion that persecution can be created because of guilt, in that the guilt can be natural or it can be induced guilt, or a combination of both, when they have created a masochistic psychology that desires to atone for such guilt. And to clarify that, because the psychology of masochism involves a permeating guilt, the atonement occurring through persecution can, or can not, relate to the reasons or rationale of why the persecution. Further, the reasons why the persecution is created can be compounded with various individual dynamics, and the evolutionary necessity to evolve beyond such dynamics. This can include naivete, idealization of people, emotional dependence on other's views, unawareness of intelelectual or psychological limitations of other people, etc., etc., or a need to evolve beyond the self-persecutory psychology, or an overly analitic psychology which biases self-understanding, which creates the vibration, and the potential dynamics in socialization, that will induce the experience of external persecution.

God Bless, Gonzalo

Sree

Hi All

Thanks for the valuable feedback. All the responses here  is really adding more depth to my understanding.

QuoteIn my view, experiences of persecution can be also ignited simply by differentness relative to the social context. Within this, natural desires to improve or revolutionize the social context serves by itself to create persecution, relative to the nature of these times. Here the persecution serves as a means to induce an awareness of such differentness, and/or about the specific social context the individual operates within

If the natural desire to improve the social context by means of communicating natural truth (taking the Soul to be in Spiritual Level) is in a way linked with the individuals evolutionary journey ,ie for example pluto polarity or north node in 3th house or gemini ,and the soul is also AWARE of the difference relate to social context and thus in a way  keep his communication (Gemini or 3rd house PPP ) to a minimum. Thus in a way, beyond his choice, needs to slow down his evolutionary journey (communication) .Then does it a call for the soul to integrate into consensus reality and thus to learn the lesson of bringing balance between spirit and matter - experiencing Gemini in a consensus way(flexibility,motor skills,modernization) . The point is as one go up  the evolutionary ladder there is a evidence of imbalance between spirit and matter .So is there a lesson in the spiritual state asking for balance of spirit and matter.

Thank you
Sree


Skywalker

Hi Sree,

In any evolutionary condition the Soul needs to integrate into the consensus reality. Even living within the context of natural law such as in a tribal community there is still a consensus reality. With the North node or PPP in the Third house, the Soul will need to learn to improve upon its communicative skills and learn to listen to the opinions and ideas of others in order to move beyond potential limitations within its belief system, since the Soul is coming from the Ninth house, evolutionarily speaking.

I´m not sure if there is an imbalance between spirit and matter as one moves up the evolutionary ladder but what there can be is a difficulty in integrating within consensus realities that are distorted and are based on materialism, illusions of all sorts, people seeing themselves as consumers etc. I would think the balance is more between actual truth as it is and distorted truth as seen by the consensus belief systems.

Another difficulty as one moves up the evolutionary ladder can be one of being overly sensitive to the distortions of the consensus society, seeing nature, animals and people suffer in ways that are not necessary or natural, living in polluted areas and having to deal with the negative emotions of others are just some possible difficulties in integrating into society in a balanced way as the sensitive or empathic individual can be totally overwhelmed by such dynamics.

All the best
www.mettarocks.com asteroids, crystal info and more

Gonzalo

Hi Sree,

Here's other thoughts.

QuoteIf the natural desire to improve the social context by means of communicating natural truth (taking the Soul to be in Spiritual Level) is in a way linked with the individuals evolutionary journey ,ie for example pluto polarity or north node in 3th house or gemini ,and the soul is also AWARE of the difference relate to social context and thus in a way  keep his communication (Gemini or 3rd house PPP ) to a minimum. Thus in a way, beyond his choice, needs to slow down his evolutionary journey (communication) .Then does it a call for the soul to integrate into consensus reality and thus to learn the lesson of bringing balance between spirit and matter - experiencing Gemini in a consensus way(flexibility,motor skills,modernization) . The point is as one go up  the evolutionary ladder there is a evidence of imbalance between spirit and matter .So is there a lesson in the spiritual state asking for balance of spirit and matter.


I'm not sure if this can be simply explained in terms of balance between spirit and matter. It can be explained in terms of outer versus inner reality. The outer communication may become reduced in the example you mention, and in that case, the inner communication will be increased. There will be an increased 'duality' -Gemini-originating in the increased consciousness relative to the outer social context. Like Jesus openly saying 'Father, will you listen to me?' and then telling his disciples 'I know the Father always listens to me, but I say this so that they know that You have sent me'. An increased complexity of meaning for the communication is implied. Complexity of meaning, because of the awareness of the impact of words/messages relative to the evolutionary states of others in the social context, does in turn involve an increased complexity of the inner connections or inner communication at the level of neurons in the brain for example. Thus, more connectivity or complexity relative to a a same structure.

God Bless,
Gonzalo