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Petrunjela
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« Reply #525 on: Feb 21, 2021, 10:34 AM »

Hi everybody,
PLuto in the 3th house in Virgo
Learning the evolutionary lesson of service, humility, self-improvement, intense self-analysis ( Virgo) through gathering, collecting, communicating data (3th ).
Introspection in work related function, (8th house experiences could be related to work relationships- relation to superior, colleague, or being a superior to employee, or in any day to day activity that relate to service)
Virgo relates to guilt conscious or unconscious- flaws, shortcomings inadequacies, self-doubt, never ready or good enough- victimization. (3th house collecting data could relate to getting the evidences that enhance that guilt) or it could be transferred onto the other in relationship (power games related to 8th house ruler position).
Self-punishing criticism can bring the individual in a state without action – loss of perspective- state of crisis. Avoiding reality leads to wasting time in meaningless activities- getting into being criticized by others which leads to isolation and self-pity.
Personal avoidance in other extreme is in creating too many obligations. busyness. not having time for oneself. Getting busy writing, reading, surfing the web, chatting, educating, learning… ( 3th house).
For the soul in the 3th house Virgo with SNO7 and its ruler in the 8th is important to be active, not be defeated by setbacks and doubt, have constructive criticism, find balance in relation to the other and use wisdom of psychoanalysis to have compassion for oneself and the other.
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Deva
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« Reply #526 on: Feb 21, 2021, 04:18 PM »

Hi Heart Symphony,

Great job! Pluto in Virgo/3rd house house symbolizes that the intention to discern what information is rooted in actual reality and which is not. In this way, mental discernment is learned. In addition, adjustment relative to outdated mental patterns occurs. The way in which the Soul communicates with others will naturally reflect this process.  As you wrote, self knowledge will be gained if the Soul responds positively to crisis. The necessary self adjustments and  improvements will  then take hold.

Yes, Pluto in Virgo/3rd house symbolizes that an unconscious guilt may be experienced with respect to an inability or failure to communicate ideas that could help others improvement their life conditions prior to the current life. In a positive expression,  a critical self-analysis of what inner adjustments need to be made in order for others to be able to receive the information that the Souls intends to communicate can then take place.  In a negative expression, the Soul will sustain a victimized mentality or mind set towards the overall environment. This would then have the effect of reinforcing or intensifying the guilt; or the feeling that the Soul has in some way "copped out" on itself.

Hi Petrunjela,

Great job! Yes, the Soul will collect information that is centered on self-improvement, adjustment, and service to the whole. The intention is to discern which information collected is based in actual reality, and which not. Most commonly this takes place through intense critical self-analysis. Mental discernment is learned in this way.

As you wrote, the Soul may choose to absorb information that reinforces an underlying sense of inferiority and lack; magnifies the thought the Soul does not know enough. This can lead to a mentality of defeatism, and undermines the Soul's natural ability to communicate information that can help others improve their life conditions in some way. Mental discernment can be used to purge these outdated mental patterns, and take in information that can affect self-improvement and adjustment. In this way, paralysis and avoidance can be overcome.

Namaste,

Deva

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Chocolate Astrologer
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« Reply #527 on: Feb 22, 2021, 03:41 PM »

Hola Deva! Last week got away from me! Here is my interpretation of the planetary ruler of the SN in the 8th house. I will try to post the Virgo archetype before end of week! Kind regards, and many thanks!
Planetary Ruler of the South Node in the 8th house or Scorpio
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The planetary ruler of the South Node of the Moon by sign, house and aspect describes the archetypes that have been used by the ego to actualize itself in past lives. These archetypes describe the “core complex” of the emotional body, as well as the sense of identity coming into the current life and core orientation to the current life.  In other words, these archetypes defined by the planetary ruler of the south node describe the “bottom line,” or original “root in the ground” of the core emotional body complex coming into the current life.
Scorpio, Pluto and the 8th house all represent the Soul which is Pure Energy and they describe the Soul’s metamorphous linked with evolution. Scorpio correlates with the archetype of commitment; and yet, commitment ignites another archetype which is fear of entrapment, or being personally limited, through the commitment that the choice of commitment implies.  Therefore, the planetary ruler in the 8th house describes the archetype of the past life ego desiring and forming intimate commitments with a variety of others (SN 7th house), and, yet, fearing entrapment, betrayal or loss. Being that Scorpio is the psychology of consciousness, this orientation of the past life ego lends itself to the phenomena of compulsions and obsessions which are reflections of the deepest unconscious sense of security that exists within a person. The unconscious sense of security (or lack of) that the individual senses in the current life are the causal factor in current life compulsions and obsessions. Those unconscious current life compulsions and obsessions are consciously portrayed as intentions and motivations which drive the current life.
In this scenario of the SN in the 7th house, and the planetary ruler of the 7th house in the 8th house portrays a current life expression of compulsion and obsession to form relationships with others in which the individual is desirous of deep, penetrating commitment with a variety of others. Being that many of these relationships are extreme and not balanced, the individual is bound to to experience entrapment, abandonment and or loss.
Being that Scorpio also correlates with sexual union, the planetary ruler of the 7th house SN in the 8th house or Scorpio tends to seek deep commitment with a variety of others through the osmosis and exchange of sexual fluids. This becomes the basis or “bottom line core emotional complex” of the ego coming into this lifetime of forming commitment with a wide variety of people into order to osmose intimately with others. This can be termed “osmosis karma” which is absorbing another’s karma via sexual union. This is the basis of the law of karma which correlates with Scorpio. Therefore, many of these current unions are past life karmic relations being reenacted in the current lifetime. Hence many current lifetimes varied relationships are past life karma reconnections seeking balance.
Many of these current life relationships involve combining individual resources (2nd house or Taurus) with the resources of another (8th house) in order to create a greater resource or power. This is why the current life ego aligns, itself with people, organization or groups who represent who the Soul desires to osmose, for that is what represents power and expansion of resources to the current life ego. Therefore, the current life 7th house SN individual, whose planetary ruler is in the 8th house seeks out others who represent who they want to become, and therefore actualize sexual osmosis and combined resources with a variety of people in order to lead to personal metamorphous, in which through deep and penetrating relationship with others, the individual can mutate, or metamorphous from one form of being into another that represents who they have aligned with on a deep level.
Being that Scorpio is yang, the planetary ruler in the 8th house correlates with penetration of one’s own psychology, (which leads to one’s motives and intentions) and the continual self questioning of the bottom-line of “WHY” this or that are happening in current life relationships.
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Deva
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« Reply #528 on: Feb 23, 2021, 09:52 AM »

Hi Chocolate Astrologer,

Good work! The planetary ruler of the South Node symbolizes how the South Node was consciously actualized prior to the current life. Just as Pluto (the Soul) used the South Node to actualize itself, so to does the South Node use its ruler to actualize itself.

Yes, fear of abandonment/betrayal/loss correlates with Pluto/Scorpio/8th house archetype. In the context of the planetary ruler of the South Node in the 8th house, and the South Node in the 7th house, this may manifest as the Soul habitually attracting others who seem to have a psychological knowledge that it does not currently have, or manipulating others through knowledge of the other person's weakest psychological link. This reflects the extremity signified by the 7th house. In both cases, the intention symbolized by the planetary ruler in the 8th house is to confront limitations with the Soul's pre existing mental foundation and relationship patterns to grow beyond these limitations.

Namaste,

Deva
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Sunya
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« Reply #529 on: Feb 25, 2021, 07:58 AM »

Hi deva

 The security of a pluto in the third virgo, is dependen in accumulating the data an thoughts in order to improve what has been before. This example is not feeling ready with his actual ideas and thought system in order to contact with the other and serve the world, so the process of reprogramming could be endless do to the seek of perfection. This soul will explore part by part before getting the general view, up to  get lost in details.

There could be some memories of not having the proper data before and being in a hurry, so in This lifetime is trying to collect what was needed before. Could be also some guilt and trying to redefine what was wrong in the past.

To finish we can say that in a way is involve in the process of depuring which thoughts are useful or true and wich ones are jus bullshit... Before serving the world.

All the best
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Júlia
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« Reply #530 on: Feb 27, 2021, 01:54 AM »

Hi Deva,

Once again it got shorten and simpler to my taste (I have a strong Virgo signature myself  Cheesy) but I am already seeing my small progress regarding EA, so... hopefully I will go on improving and writing more longer messages in the next times.

Pluto in Virgo - 3rd house

With Pluto in the sign of Virgo, collecting information throughout the lives served the purpose to progressively induce the soul to self-improvement. To achieve the evolutionary goal, though, the ego structures created could have gone through experiences of abuse, humiliation, feelings of inadequacy and inferiority.

In the case of the SN in the 7th and its ruler in the 8th, one could have submitted to several cases of abuse and psychological control through relationships - relationships that could have been very unhealthy and codependent in its nature. Being controlled by others is a possibility, but the other way round too - being themselves the controllers, for diverse reasons. An example would be someone who did several types of research in order to understand the psychological reasons of why we act in the way we act, and used this acknowledgment to create more appealing personas in their relationships. Everything due to their inner feeling of inferiority when they just acted as who they really were.

The final goal here,relative to the Pluto in Virgo, would be to progressively induce the focus, the discernment, (through self-analysis) to discern what was obtained through these interactions. "Which information is worth taking with me?" "Which is not?" "Which of those is a subjective truth, which one is objective?" In so doing, purification would be achieved, through seeing what oneself is not - a process of illusions being dissolved.
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“Don’t waste your time chasing butterflies. Mend your garden, and the butterflies will come.” – Mario Quintana
Deva
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« Reply #531 on: Feb 27, 2021, 10:33 AM »

Hi Sunya,

Thank you for your effort on this thread! As you know, there much more to this than than what you have written. My suggestion is to deepen what you have written by focusing on the core intentions of the natal Pluto in Virgo/3rd house; i.e "why" the Soul would pick this symbol. For example, mental expansion and refinement through discernment of what information reflects actual reality and what does not.

Namaste,

Deva


Julia,

Yes, I can also see your growth and that is exactly what this practice thread is for! From my view, it is best to start very simply as you have done and go from there.

Good work! Yes, a critical self-analysis of what information is worth "taking with" the Soul and which is not is core intention of natal Pluto in Virgo/3rd house. As you wrote, the Soul may have created abusive situations of psychological control by the partner, or presenting a false persona of wanting to help others with the actual agenda to psychologically control and manipulate others within relationships. In both cases, the intention is to expose the "actual reality" of these conditions and purge outdated mental and relationship patterns. This is indicated by Pluto in Virgo/3rd house, South Node in the 7th house, and planetary ruler in the 8th house.

Namaste,

Deva

Hi All,

I am checking in with those who have not posted but would like to continue with the practice thread. Please let me know if you intend to post and how much time you will need.

Namaste,

Deva

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Akim
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« Reply #532 on: Feb 27, 2021, 03:49 PM »

Hi Deva, my apologies for the delay.

Pluto in the 3rd House in the sign of Virgo

With Pluto in Virgo, the 3rd House evolutionary necessity to collect information from the environment is conditioned by the necessity to learn the evolutionary lessons of humility and being of service to whole. In the 5th house, the individually lesson is one of creative self-expansion; the self is the centre of gravity through which everything is integrated and creatively expressed. Symbolically this looks like the individual being at the top of a pyramid. In the 6th House - or Virgo - this pyramid is inverted. The individual is now at the bottom of the pyramid learning to be of service as just one part of the whole. Supporting a larger whole. This prepares the way for the next phase - Libra, the 7th house; participating in relationship as an equal.
Virgo is a Yin sign which looks within. The data that is collected is filtered, or conditioned, by the need to analyse self, to work on self, to improve self. This purification by analysis is part of the humbling process that is necessary by evolutionary intention.
With the South Node in the 7th House and Pluto in Virgo, there would be a desire to be of service to others in relationship. To be in transformational relationships that are consistently being 'worked on'. There would be an alertness in analysing the other and this information would be analysed and filtered through the 'improvement' system.
With the ruler of the South Node in the 8th, there is a doubling down of this self deconstruction, and deconstruction of relationship dynamics (7th). The analysis goes deep and turns over every stone. This could be really tough on the individual in the sense that they may give themselves a really hard time - obsessively deconstructing their own thoughts ideas and weighing up all the data they collect in relationships against their own self-worth.
They may attract relationships that go very deep (8th ruling 7th) sexually, emotionally, intellectually and there would lessons involving power vs. powerlessness and trust and mistrust. They might use their piercing analysis (virgo/8th) of partners (7th) to gain control in relationships. This could be a reaction to them having experienced feelings of victimisation (Virgo) themselves - through their own internal self-criticism projected onto others. They may attract people in relationship who take advantage of them - playing into their need for self-critical analysis. Such powerful individuals may also serve as guides, offering them psychology wisdom to support their ongoing process of self-purification. They may be attracted to such 'knowledgable' people as a source of valuable information which they can process and digest.

The underlying motivation will be the collection of information, data and experience to understand themselves within the world of 'ten thousand things'. This process will be conditioned by the Virgo archetype meaning that the process of collection will be aimed at self-analysis and purification. The data collected will be weighed against the self - the individual would be analysing their own thinking, intellectual ideas beliefs and communication and discerning what is true. There would be a desire to reach perfection. This would also occur in their relationships and in their daily work - the analysis of the other, of the workplace and its processes, held up against an ideal of perfection.

Akim
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Sunya
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« Reply #533 on: Feb 27, 2021, 08:59 PM »

Hi deva

I'm not quite sure about how to do this practice 2 post ago i understanded that you suggest me to be more concrete:

My suggestions is to focus only on the archetypes and core intentions, i.e the "why,"  reflected within the natal signature as we continue to build upon the practice chart to help synthesize each step of the chart.

And now as I understand that you suggest me the opossite:

As you know, there much more to this than than what you have written. My suggestion is to deepen what you have written

So please help me to clarify, it could be that I didn't grasp the thing, I can develop the thing and going deep or I can be more concrete, but not at the same time, I can write you the chapter of a book, or write you a 3 lines haiku, but not in my abilities to do both at the same time.

All the best
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Deva
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« Reply #534 on: Feb 28, 2021, 12:23 PM »

Hi Akim,

Great job! Yes, the sign of Virgo will condition the 3rd house Pluto in the ways you have described. In a positive expression, critical self-analysis will result in a mental discernment of what information can be used to affect true self-improvement, and which re-enforces a sense of lack, inferiority, and the thought that that the person does not know enough.

Namaste,

Deva

Hi Sunya,

To clarify, I am not suggesting the opposite of anything. I am simply suggesting that you add on to what has already been discussed and analyzed by everybody here to date; including the example I provided. Remember that the value is in the effort so just do the best you can.

Namaste,

Deva


Hi All,

The next step of the practice thread is to add the sign to the South Node. In our practice chart the South Node is in the 7th house. To continue with our example, let’s put the South Node in the sign of Aquarius.

The South Node in Aquarius in the 7th house signifies that prior to the current life the Soul has initiated relationships with like minded others. In addition, the sign of Aquarius symbolizes that relationships were also formed within social groups. Through observation, the individual then evaluated which social groups were of like mind and which were not.

This South node placement indicates that the mental foundation was shaped by the relationships formed within these social groups. Most often, a dependence  linked with these social bonds to determine what is true and what is not was created prior to the current life. In the context of Pluto in Virgo/3rd house, the individual will commonly reject the ideas and view points that do not support the existing “group mentality” in which they have formed relationships.

The Aquarius/Uranus/11th house archetype symbolizes the need to objectify a dynamic in order to liberate and de-condition from what has become outdated and crystallized within consciousness. As such, it becomes necessary to detach and disengage in order for the Soul to develop an objective awareness of what pre-exisiting patterns are creating a situation of stagnation.

Relative to the South Node in Aquarius in the 7th house and natal Pluto in Virgo/3rd house, the Soul must objectify the influence of the “group mentality” and like minded others in general to determine what information to take in and what to leave to leave out. In other words, through a necessary detachment from these like minded bonds the Soul can then liberate from outdated mental patterns, and discern what information reflects actual reality and what does not. In this way the Soul has also been learning to discover what new or additional types of information or knowledge that it needs in order to continue to evolve.

One of the core lessons reflected by the Uranus/11th house/Aquarius archetype is to stand as a group of one if necessarily. The Soul has created a dynamic within itself wherein at key junctures unexpected conflicts or confrontations with others has the intended intent of enforcing this dynamic in order to detach, let go, and evolve in this way.

In addition, trauma may have been experienced in order to induce the necessary liberation from the dependence upon like minded others and social groups. For example, conflicts or disagreements between different people in a group about which view points were correct and which were not may take place. This may have also manifested as the Soul’s ideas being rejected and ostracized by the group because it did not support the overall group mentality. This dynamic is symbolized by Pluto in Virgo/3rd house, and South Node in Aquarius/7th house. The intention within this is to enforce the necessary liberation from outdated mental structures and relationship patterns, and to detach and OBJECTIFY the reasons or causative dynamics that have created this situation in order for the knowledge of others and itself to occur.

My suggestion is to read Pluto in Aquarius/11th house in the Pluto vol.1 book, and then wrote out in your own words how the sign of Aquarius conditions the South Node in the 7th house. Please post by next Tuesday. Thank you all again for your participation and contributions to this thread!

Namaste,

Deva
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Sunya
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« Reply #535 on: Mar 01, 2021, 04:04 AM »

Hi deva and all.

 I will recommend not to read this post if people is very sensible, I was crying during the writing.

Let's imagine our character with a little dog (domestic animals virgo). This dog is the only being that is always happy seeing our character, it is only the only being that trust our character unconditionally. at some point during a harsh transition the dog dies (maybe some cycle finish, some square Mars or neptune, I don't really now which are the normal aspects for death). 3 days before he was eating something and the dog ask for food, our character had the wrong thought if I give him the plastic of the sandwich it will only clean it but not eat it, I saw the dog before playing with plastics but never eating it. Bad idea. He gives the plastic to it and this image will impinge in his soul for a long time. We don't know if it finally eats or not the plastic but the dog  become sick and our character didn't have the knowledge to help it, let say is living where there are no doctors and the dog finally die in the arms of our character. Our character feels guilty because wrong thought in the time of giving to it the plastic, and lack of knowledge to save his life. Regret. His best friend dies because of his stupid knowledge.

So we have set the conditions for a future life of this Character with pluto in virgo in the third.
Remember the library? So our library now is full of books on medicine and vet. The guilt has make that our character desire more than anything to repair the damage, no more lack of knowledge in regard to save life or health.  Whatever is related with this he will absorbe up to the ultimate detail, what happens in the past life can not happen any more,  he will know anything about life drive by this guilt. So we have a virgo improvement, healer, etc in a 3rd house knowledge basis.

What can happen is that even being now the most prepare for saving a life, he may regret himself and not feel ready even to adopting a dog, because the failure memory is there. So he will still need to read another health manual, before playing with others life again. That's one of the drama of virgo, to much self (leo) has cause damage in the others (libra).  And in this case plastic is opposite sagittarius (natural law).


Maybe we have in front of us the most prepare doctor or vet of our times but totally block to put into practice.

If course in our example is not only lack of knowledge but also lack of  mindfulness and awareness (is this acuarius? ) and caring.


This example is base in natural guilt, but we can do the same with learn guilt, for using the dog example, maybe some issue related with a environment where people feel superior to animals and some Behaviour related to that. And our character trying to break this social rule and feeling guilty because society ideas.

I have use the example of the dog because is very illustrative. But we can extend to many others where a guilt is driving a learning process to repair a mistake. Not necessary with health but maybe that one is the best example because nothing is more important that the life and death of the beings.



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