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ari moshe
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« on: Dec 25, 2009, 12:15 PM »

I think some good chart examples of older, well known folk is a great way to learn.

Oprah! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah

She was raised by her grandmother- molested when she was 9- lost a child when she was 14 after which she started to live with her father.
she was an excellent student- preacher type personality- quickly rose to fame- talk show- super rich- she has increasingly taken advantage of her power to help raise consciousness on this planet. Next year she will host her very own television station called "The Oprah Winfrey network".

Here's a telling quote from the wiki site:
Quote
By confessing intimate details about her weight problems, tumultuous love life, and sexual abuse, and crying alongside her guests, Time magazine credits Winfrey with creating a new form of media communication known as "rapport talk" as distinguished from the "report talk" of Phil Donahue:
“    Winfrey saw television's power to blend public and private; while it links strangers and conveys information over public airwaves, TV is most often viewed in the privacy of our homes. Like a family member, it sits down to meals with us and talks to us in the lonely afternoons. Grasping this paradox, ...She makes people care because she cares. That is Winfrey's genius, and will be her legacy, as the changes she has wrought in the talk show continue to permeate our culture and shape our lives.

and on her spiritual influence:
Quote
In 2002, Christianity Today published an article called "The Church of O" in which they concluded that Winfrey had emerged as an influential spiritual leader. "Since 1994, when she abandoned traditional talk-show fare for more edifying content, and 1998, when she began 'Change Your Life TV', Oprah's most significant role has become that of spiritual leader. To her audience of more than 22 million mostly female viewers, she has become a postmodern priestess—an icon of church-free spirituality."[116] The sentiment was seconded by Marcia Z. Nelson in her book The Gospel According to Oprah.[117] On the season premier of Winfrey's 13th season Roseanne Barr told Winfrey "you're the African Mother Goddess of us all" inspiring much enthusiasm from the studio audience. The animated series Futurama alluded to her spiritual influence by suggesting that "Oprahism" is a mainstream religion in 3000 AD.[118]

I estimate her to be at the end of third state individuated- on the cusp of first stage spiritual.



I don't have my solar fire with me- so I'll just list the planetary nodes:

Venus
sn= 17 cap
nn= 25 pisces

mercury
sn= 15 cap
nn= 27 aqu

mars
sn= 18 sag
nn= 12 aries

jupiter
sn= 14 cap
nn= 3 can

saturn
sn= 24 cap
nn= 21 can

uranus
sn= 16 sag
nn= 11 gem

Neptune
sn= 11 aqu
nn= 11 leo

Pluto
sn= 20 cap
nn= 19 can

Chiron
sn= 25 ari
nn= 5 scorpio
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ari moshe
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 25, 2009, 03:20 PM »

I will be approaching this using the Pluto paradigm of course, but in my own way. I'm not going to take it a part bit by bit because that isn't conducive for the way my mind works- however I will be attempting to synthesize it all together and give my ea reasoning behind it all.

First I will look at the basic evolutionary implications of the chart, then go deeper with the planetary nodes.

Her soul has been learning the lessons of Power and powerlessness in an Ultimate sense. Coming to grips with the nature of her limitations, and finding an inner strength and courage to overcome external opposition. All this implied by Pluto in Leo in the 8th.

There have been traumatic events that have deeply effected her relationship to society- where she has been the target of persecution through the oppressiveness of patriarchy. The nature of this persecution has been one of core rejection- where who she was was not good enough. And there would have been a rejection from her own family, as well as sexual violence from family members (neptune squaring sn which is conj uranus retro in Cancer in the 7th as the facilitator for the 8th house Pluto). The Moon which squares Pluto, in sag in the 11th further emphasizes the nature of rejection and abandonment from her family. As well as a karmic feeling of being different, and having been cast aside. This has created an deep insecurity of not being acceptable. In many cases, persecution was surely linked to the simple nature of who she was- i.e. her religious beliefs, or her race (all moon in sag as ruler of sn).

She has in the past avoided addressing her unresolved emotional dynamics by focusing on making an external difference in the world. By penetrating through the social structure of society and rising to the top to achieve a completely self initiated and empowered difference int he world (sautrn in scorpio in the 10th as ruler of North node Capricorn in the first). The implications of Neptune here are that there is a reality that is completely beyond her control, which she has needed to adopt to. That necessity has been stifling for her in the past, as she has believed it necessary to dissociate from her emotional body in order to make it in the world (Neptune square to sn in cancer). This has also come to the sacrifice of healthy, nurturing relationships with people who are just as radical and free thinking as she is and won't need her to be anything other than who she is (neptune square to sn in cancer 7th conj uranus retro- also venus in aquarius squaring saturn in 10th). Chiron on the north node Implies having developed the awareness that she can't just create an identity around her career- that a strong degree of HUMANESS is required in order for her to be successful.

Therefore as implied by Neptune, she has been flip flopping between a sense of purpose and definition, and then an overwhelming insecurity that she is too unsupported and unloved at a core level to do this work.

In this life- she has achieved that by resolving the skipped step implied by the Neptune in Libra in the 10th, squaring sn in Cancer in the 7th- to be a talk show host and objectively validate the reality of other people. She has become known for her ability to EMPATHIZE with so many. Her relationship with Graham also exemplifies this resolution:

Quote
Winfrey and her partner Stedman Graham have been together since 1986. They were engaged to be married in November 1992, but the ceremony never took place.[63]The relationship of Winfrey and Graham has been documented through the years with numerous romantic tabloid articles often accompanied by color spreads of the couple at home and on lavish vacations. Prior to meeting Graham, Winfrey's love life was a lot less stable.

Now for the planetary nodes.
I want to start with the nodes of Saturn as they provide more definition as it relates to the evolution of her identity (Capricorn being the north node). Her Saturn South node is on her Lunar north node/chiron conjunction in Cap in the 1st. This, as well as the fact that Neptune in the 10th is forming a square to the south node of the moon- shows us how much of an emphasis there has been prior to this life on her social image/persona- and the independent work and accomplishments she has achieved. It means two things:
1. Power is not new to her, and she has a natural ability to navigate through society.
2. She has been blocking and repressing her inner reality relative to her social obligations/position for many lifetimes now- that is particularly implied by the Neptune square to that node.

Now, the north node of Saturn is conjunct her South node! This puts a new definition on how we already know (because of the skipped step to the south node) that she has to resolve the south node in order to access the evolutionary intentions of the north node, in an emotionally integrated way. This means that her social position (saturn in scorpio in the 10th) is becoming more and more defined by the people she is able to touch, by authentic relationships, by focusing on a social contribution that is entirely connected to HER OWN SELF.

We can see how this evolution has taken place by looking at the evolution of her career. She started off as a broadcaster. Which is not personally involved at all. Her work has become increasingly more connected to her own personal experiences, and relating to the human experience. Her social image- which has often been intensely self conscious (fear of speaking in front of live crowds in which she is directly engaging people one on one- her fear of her weight which in this culture is always subject to critisism and rejection) was at first not directly connected to her work.  However, over the years- she has spoken more about her own experiences, she has interviewed people in more intimate ways, through which she is accessing the subtle beauty of the human nature. She has also become more and more oriented towards women and child empowerment/safety, and just in general- creating structures in society through which people can feel really safe and good about who they are (cancer in the 7th).

She has operated in society via communication, and her social positions have been linked to doing work that relates to the clear and precise articulation of higher ideas. This is because the ruler of the house of her north node which is so familiar to her- is Jupiter which is in Gemini in the 6th. Likewise, the ruler of the house of her south node is Mercury which is in Aquarius in the second opposing Pluto= finding power within by asking the deeper questions about life, and seeking to answer them by creating a rich inner world of objective thinking that allows her to see THROUGH AND BEYOND the feelings of oppression. This has naturally been taking place by interviewing and creating relationship with more and more people who themselves are using words to reach people (mercury as ruler of gemini on the 7th).

I believe we can postulate that she has sought to evolve her mind and her capacity to perceive higher ideas, more quickly and more accurately as we have the south node of Uranus conjunct her Jupiter in the 6th. This however would relate to a karmic over emphasis on UNDERSTANDING everything. And a tendency to overwork her mind- trying to grasp right brain concepts with her left brain- possibly leading to what JWG called "hemispheric switching"- I don't know if this has ever been the case with her. However having listened to many interviews, I can certainly see how she can sometimes tend to over do it with thinking.
This could also relate to past life traumas in which relative to religious conditioning- she was forced to MEMORIZE (gemini) lots of information, in a really quick amount of time- resulting in a dissocation (uranus sn) from the actual meaning (juptier) of the information. The emphasis would have been to be perfect and know the material well.

The ruler of gemini is again Mercury which is in Aquarius in the second, opposing Pluto and inconjunct Uranus and the nodes. So we notice that the nature of this dissociation came from her family- having been forced to succed socially and in the process disconnect from her emotinoal body. We have seen this in this life when she was a teenager- having been forced to study by her father (representing a distorted sense of authority- he wans't there for her childhood, then all of the sudden he's there and is super bossy) to excel in school (social pressure relative to the north node- and the need to do the "right thing" as implied by Neptune).

We also have the north node of Uranus in Sag in the 12. What's interseting is she has Vesta in Pisces in the third squaring that- so we see an unresolved trauma from the past in which (in addition to what I just wrote above) she was also a part of a spiritual discipline/ religion/ training that forced her to study THEIR truth, not THE truth. This bred a pattern of passivity and not speaking her own truth. The key to resolving this skipped step is indeed by becoming a teacher of her own spirituality, and communicating to the masses (Vesta in pisces in the 3rd= commitment to broadcast her voice. squaring nn of Uranus in Sag in the 12= in order to excellerate her own direct intuitive knowing of Spiritual Truth, that is 100% unlearned and unconditioned by any prior thinking/training).

QUESTION: IS THAT ABOVE CONFIGURATION THE PRIMARY REASON WHY WE SEE HER HAVING REACHED A 'SPIRITUAL PREACHER' STATUS FOR SO MANY PEOPLE?

So in addition to all this information on her chart in regards to communication that I've already written about. Im interested in looking more closely at Mercury. Being opposite Pluto and the ruler of the house of her south node we know how important that planet already is on her chart. The south node of Mercury is conjunct her north node! Indeed yet ANOTHER signature indicating how strongly developed her Capricorn in the first house is. I beleive this signature has the closest affinity to her ability to broadcast in the way that she did when she was a newscaster. Speaking as a proffesssion is just very familiar to her. Neptune is also squaring the south node of mercury which means that she has had to sacrifice her own personal thinking and contract her energy in order to say what was socially appropriate to say.

The evolution of her mind- which is so key for her given such a strong Gemini Mercury emphasis, is found in the nn of Mercury which is in the second house in Aquarius, also opposing Pluto. So the key here is to simply the amount of information that she is seeking- and create an inner world of cutting edge evolutionary thinking that breeds a higher understanding of the soul. This information and the understanding that comes from it, becomes the crucible for an inner sense of self reliance. Now she has the mental tools to understand her self and life itself on a deeper level.

QUESTION: IS IT TRUE TO SAY THAT THE NN OF MERCURY RELATES TO THE KIND OF INFORMATION WE BECOME INCREASINGLY ATTRACTED TO?

The nodes of Jupiter AGAIN re-emphasize a repetitive story here. We've spoken of Jupiter and how that relates to the over emphasis on mental perfection. We can see how this has come about with more detail now if we look at the south node of Jupiter. It is Conjunct the south node of the moon in Cap in the 1st house. This is past lives as a preacher- of teaching relative to a consenus based spirtuality. The oppressive nature of that of course that it wasn't her own. And again- the Neptune square to that south node of Jupiter implies the pressure to conform or to be be judged. As a child- she was known to be a preacher of a mainstream religion. She was surely only like that because she is a deeply spiritual person who wishes to know God and to inspire others- yet the only outlet she knew for that was the one that was socially acceptable. So the pattern has been to force herself into the spiritual paradigm of the world around her.

nn of Jupiter conj the DC in cancer in the 7th. Developing a belief system that is centered around emotional truth and awareness of other. In essence, she finds her guru by connecting with other people, through her friendships, through her partnership- clearly the evolution of her intuitive mind is meant to happen through the emotional body, like so many other aspects in her chart. From an evolutionary perspective, this then serves to give her a sense of ACCEPTANCE and inner security- which resolves the over emphasis on "what is culturally appropriate" belief systems as implied by the sn of jupiter.

Ono thing I have observed in hearing her talk- especially when she was doing the eckart tolle interviews, was how aware she was of being "too radical" in saying things about God that defied consensus thinking. She didn't want to step on anyone's toes and offend her viewers. So she contracted what she knew to be true, and found ways to express her truth in such a way that it wouldn't be invasive to people who have more a more consensus based spirituality. She succeeds, always, in getting through to people by asking them questions about their own beliefs, and engaging them personally (nn of jupiter in cancer in the 7th). The audience she seems to reach the most also happens to be middle aged women who grew up in a conservative christian environment but are seeking something more spiritual, accepting and less dogmatic. This must be an expression of the nn of Jupiter.

Relationships. This is something to look at a bit more. We see this life is all about deconditioning and not giving a shit as it relates to who and how she creates relationships. There has been persecution for that before as indicated by the south node of the moon conj uranus retro in cancer in the 7th, and squaring neptune in the 10th. Likewise, her venus is in Aquarius in the second house- emphasizing the desire to build a self confidence and over come fear as it relates to being different. She is truly meant to dance to her own inner drum here. The south node of Venus is in cap in first conj the north node of the moon= defines the fact that she connected to relationships that fit a social appropriateness. Possibly creating relationships with people who themselves were socially powerful, having used that as a tool to rise to success.

With her Venus nn in Pisces in the 3rd she will be creating relationships with others that reflect her own inner desire to surrender her mind to God, and find perfection and forgiveness. It also is another signature for communicating to as many people as possible. This is why as her career has developed, she has only sought more media (third house) for communicating to the masses (pisces).

QUESTION: WOULD THE NN OF VENUS LITERALLY BE-TELL WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE MAY EVENTUALLY COME INTO OUR LIFE?

QUESTION: Is it true what I say about the Venus nn being the reason for the continued effort to get her word out as widely as possible. My hunch is that the inconjunct between the nn of Venus natal Neptune, as well as the aforementioned vesta in Pisces in the third square to the south node of Uranus imply that as well? All this aside the fact that Neptune in the 10th square the nodes- that's clearly about a life devoted to doing good for the world.

One last observation. All south nodes correlate to what is familiar to the soul relative to the planet in question. As I understand it- Current life Venus will find a natural expression through the tainted lense and filter of the south node of Venus. We see with such a strong south node emphasis on her North node in Capricorn- that she can easily resort to being HIGHLY concerned with being in charge. In connection to her Pluto- her social success has been a way of creating deep emotional security and empowerment for her. South node of Venus Jupiter and Mercury and Saturn all on the lunar north node in Cap= opulence, richness, successful business woman, strong and self affirmed communicator. Having taken into account all this south node information- we can then look back at the "normal" chart and understand that the Neptune square to the nodes implies that in past lives she has also been VERY POWERFUL and perhaps even took advantage of her social power by being inconsiderate of the effects that she had on the common folk. This also furthered by Pluto in leo opposing Mercury in Aquarius. It seems that in her soul is a deep desire to purify her motives for success and fame and richness and devote all of it towards being of service to humanity.

QUESTION: I'm interested in understanding how gender has played a role in the past. My sense is that she has actually generally been a man, and has incarnated as a women in order to become more sensitive to the oppressive nature of society- and thus get more into her emotional body. Or is it the case that she has been a woman before and has gone through a similar process of making it as an influential woman, or minority etc that wasn't supposed to be successful? With Chiron on the North node, it makes me think that this process isn't entirely new to her- and that she has already come into this life with a humility as it relates to not entirely identifying with her career, and being sensitive to the connection between the pains of the world and her own emotional body.

I think I'll stop here. I see how one can really go on forever with this. I focused on just some of the bigger things that popped out at me- as well as whatever shared a strong relationship either by aspect, or ruler of sign/house- to the position of the lunar nodes.

I look forward to whatever responses/critique i get. Everyone should feel comfortable to chime in with your own q's, or ea perspectives.

I of course appreciate knowing what of what I wrote isn't accurate/ if there are areas that can be developed more. I hope in doing this others are benefiting as well. The opportunity to be practicing in such a way is unbelievable to me. Thank you so much.
« Last Edit: Dec 25, 2009, 03:23 PM by ari moshe » Logged
Bradley J
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 04, 2010, 02:00 PM »

Ari Moshe,
This is great!  I love that you have done all this work putting this together.
I have been too busy to read it all and give specific feedback.
Your enthusiasm is inspiring.
Thank You,
Bradley
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PamS
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 04, 2010, 03:17 PM »

Hi All,

Ari,

I think , i know i have asked her evolutionary level many times and I think wolf said it was 3rd consensus moving into 1st individuated... I would tend to agree....  I tend to be ambivalent about the levels, but use them as guides when i do readings cause observation and correlation causes me to see the patterns in clients... now with Oprah, I think still has a victim consciousness, meaning that "they" did this too me and not seeing the vast complex matrix of interconnectedness..... The people she chooses to be her surrogate advisors are all very consensus.. Dr Oz, Dr Phil,Gail, all her excersise people and food people.... Her relationship to money is very consensus.   Nothing wrong with consensus, she helps out sooo many people, I have always liked her......

But obviously, I don't know her, this is just what I have seen of her....

i enjoyed reading your text!!!!

blessings,

pam

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Lesley
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« Reply #4 on: Jan 04, 2010, 06:16 PM »

Hi everyone,

 -- Oh boy, more evolutionary conditions! Smiley I love these. Pam, I agree with you, that Oprah is 3rd stage Consensus. You hit it right on: Oprah's relationship to money is very telling. Dr. Phil, Bob Greene (her diet/exercise guru, if I have his name right?), are all terribly consensus. And she was very big on "The Secret," which I thought to be a 3rd stage Consensus/1st stage Individuated phenomenon.

Although, Dr. Oz...he does include Eastern modalities (Neti pot, Chinese medicine) in his practice, and he's come out against commercial products that do us more harm than good (cleansers for the home and body). I have always thought of him as having maybe a toe or two in the 1st stage Individuated condition.

Great discussion! Looking forward to more...

Love and blessings to all,
Lesley
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ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: Jan 04, 2010, 09:37 PM »

Oh that's interesting. Thanks for sharing your ea perspective. I feel this is where I get confused in terms of estimating evolutionary state.

How do we know that evolution truly happens like that? Is it not possible that Oprah can evolve to the spiritual state from consensus state in one lifetime? Does she have to do hundreds of lifetimes through the other states first? I get that there are no skipping steps in terms of evolution- in the same way that a baby doesn't go from nursing to bike riding right away. But this feels far more abstract...

I realize my posts recently have been lengthy- and that isn't too user friendly, or encouraging for others to jump in there. So here's a list of q's I have, after having looked at her chart with Planetary nodes.

1. Could it be that she is third stage individuated- and the consensus stuff is truly just reflected through all the capricornian archetypes we got playing in her chart?

2. What has her gender story been in the past? With Neptune in the 10th forming a primary square to the south node in Cancer, as well as all of the planetary nodes on cap south node.

3. More clarity as to how the nn of Mercury and Venus have manifested/will/are manifesting through the lense of the current life mercury and venus.

Thank you
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Bradley J
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« Reply #6 on: Jan 04, 2010, 10:17 PM »

Ari Moshe,
Most of your interpretation seems right on from my young ea perspective.  As someone newer to reading and knowing where most all the  connections are coming from, when I re-scanned it I was focusing back on pluto and it's polarity to hold a bottom line in my head.  

I've also wondered about what else has to show up besides pluto that suggests the recent gender switch.  Would a lunar sn in 4th more likely suggest this than luner sn in cancer?

With the applying waxing square of mars in scorpio/11 to pluto leo/8th, would this say that this larger evolutionary desire of her soul is still fairly new(mars-pluto phase)?  How is the mars pluto waxing square manifesting?

What symbols are why she is always on the cover?   Pluto leo eight?  How does that tie to mars scorpio 11th?
How do you tie in mars in waning sextile to chiron and north node?  

With all these skipped step elements, the pluto polarity point is so emphasized-hence all the mercury already being developed.  

The neptune in libra the 10th symbolize her "fair-mindedness" ideals and exercising her personal authority to find the ultimate truth thru relating to each other?

Asking more than answering,

thanks y'all
b


« Last Edit: Jan 04, 2010, 10:28 PM by Bradley J » Logged

Lesley
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 05, 2010, 08:51 AM »

Hi Ari, Smiley 

With regard to evolutionary condition, no one (not even Oprah! Smiley ) can go from 3rd stage consensus to 1st stage Spiritual in one lifetime. There is the whole spectrum of the Individuated evolutionary state that occurs between consensus and spiritual: the differences between consensus and spiritual are very, very vast.

Even when one is within the 3rd stage Individuated evolutionary condition, and headed for 1st stage Spiritual (or, for that matter, 3rd stage Consensus and headed for 1st stage Individuated), it can take many more than one life to make that transition, for the simple reason that transition is hard for all of us. Evolution, sadly, is not our emotional default; staying the same, which gives us a sense of continuity and personal security, is much more often the norm in the human condition.

The evolutionary spectrum of consensus-individuated-spiritual conditions simply reflects the natural progression of the Soul as it learns, through its many, many lifetimes, to identify less and less with its separating desires, which allows the Soul to progressively remember itself as a creation and instrument of God. The nature of any Soul's separating desires tells us where they are on the evolutionary spectrum. Oprah's desire for wealth and her endorsement of consensus individuals like Dr. Phil and Bob Greene ("one diet fits all"...very consensus attitude) tells us that she is in the consensus evolutionary state. But as she has achieved so much fame and power, she is in the late stage of that state, the 3rd stage of the consensus evolutionary condition.

From here, the Soul goes forward to progressively learn to think for itself, to identify itself outside of the consensus, and this is how evolution into the Individuated state occurs. Before Oprah (or anyone) can seek to know God directly in the 1st stage Spiritual state, she needs to expunge from the Soul any need for consensus experts and advice. That's the point (and necessity) of Individuation. An Individuated Soul will not need a Dr. Phil to tell her how her mind works, or a Bob Greene to tell her how her body works. By depending on these consensus experts, we see that she is not yet Individuated, which places her quite far from the 1st stage Spiritual condition.

As it evolves, each Soul progressively turns its focus away from the group (consensus), into itself (Individuated), where it ultimately finds God dwelling there (spiritual condition). It's a very long process, to be sure.

As for the Capricorn archetypes in her chart, this archetype can also reflect being born in dark skin: a karma with a non-white culture and identity.

Not sure that any of this really adds to this excellent discussion, Ari, but I'm so glad you've posted the chart and opened this dialogue. I agree that this message board is a precious resource for all of us.

Love and blessings to you,
Lesley
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