Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Astro detective work  (Read 3391 times)
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« on: Jan 22, 2010, 01:19 PM »

Hi all  Smiley

This is a familial question that has me stumped...first because I am close to the situation, second, because the astrologoical symbols involved seem to go either way...
There are no elder relatives left that we could ask to clear this up


background..

My Dad passed away in Nov and as my sister and I have been going thru papers we found something that made us question if she is biologically my parents daughter. I was adopted, when my sister was 4 and we were always told that she was thiers biologically and i was not. I know my part is true as i have met my biological mother. My parents were very secretive about facts of my adoption. only sharing vague info with me, while after some pressing and divine intervention the full details and truth did come out, but not until i was in my 30's. I believe that if my parents did not even have to tell me i was adopted they would not have, being a culteral taboo in some way at the time etc.. and them also sincerly and heartfully wanting me to be, and treating me as thier biological child. But since my sister was old enough to remember they did...but only minimally.

My sisters birth data  Nov 7, 1960 , 12:50 pm, Bridgeport, Ct

We found papers for an insurance policy that show my Mother had a hysterectomy in Feb of 1960...while my sister was born in Nov 1960. We knew about the hysterectomy, but never knew when. Knowing medicine back then it is hard to believe they could have or would have performed a hysterectomy (partial or not with my Mother being pregnant---although it is my thinking that partial's did not really develope until the 1980's) and not endanger the baby. And we are unclear that if my mother was pregnant can she still bring a baby to term, 9 months later? Further we have no pictures of my Mother pregnant..or any baby shower etc.. but that also could have been her propesity to be overconcerned about her appearence, and maybe they never had a shower. My sister does not remember my mother ever talking to her about any cricumastances around her birth..but then again my Mom had 'shame issues' relating to her sexuality and all things around that... perhaps stemming from her 'feeling less than a woman' because of the hysterectomy.

The transits to my sisters chart show a recent Pluto opposition to the natal moon in cancer... so certainly can be bringing such issues into the light. Further her natal Pisces SN in the first can show karmic issues around confused or unclear identity. Transiting Chiron and Neptune are conjuncting her natal Chiron in AQ in the 1st...further issues of shocking news and neptunes illusions around identity? Jupiter (the truth) is also approaching her SN?

The ruler of the SN is Merc in Scorpio in the 9th...conj Neptune and sun .. Merc is also the ruler of her Gemini ruled 4th and 5th houses..relating to mothering/childhood etc.. In Scorpio?...Secrets? 9th?...truth needs to come out?

The symbols to me can support that this information can cause a questioning in her that is essential to her evolution ,  it may not be true..she may biologocally be thier child..but only resonant with other past life complexes....  Or they can support that an esential truth is coming to the surface..which also assists her evolutionary growth?

My feeling is that she is thiers biologically, but then again, that is what i grew up believeing.. and it is hard for me..being so close to see which it might be. She does resemeble our mother both in apperence and temperment...but if she was adopted she would have been a baby..and had much more bonding and imprinting personality wise with my Mom. (PS..MOM was a Sag with Merc in Scorpio)

If this is too personal a post for the board...please feel free to remove it...and accept my apology..or if it serves as a good discussion and learning topic..then I look forward to the input and learning...

Patricia
Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 16998


« Reply #1 on: Jan 22, 2010, 01:41 PM »

HI Patricia,
 
 First, it's totally appropriate that you make this post. Second, it would be useful if you could supply the birth data of your mother and father if possible. Third, from the point of view of astrology only, it's not possible to make the absolute definitive conclusion or judgment about a matter such as this. One would have to have other 'capacities' to do so. Just looking at your sisters chart it is possible to say that there were some very unusual circumstances connected to the issue that you are asking about. The truth of what those unusual circumstances were is really the issue here.

 Rad
Logged
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #2 on: Jan 22, 2010, 02:48 PM »

Thanks Rad...

Even if we do not come up with a definative answer, I look forward to learning through this. I agree with the 'unusuall' circumtance symbols... and even in synastry with my mothers chart and my sister ..as you will see My mothers Pluto conj's my sisters moon and my mothers Jupiter conjunc my sisters NN... so similar symbols again...was it a life and death (scorpio issue for my Mom to give birth to my sister. hence the surgery....or was it just that there were Scorpionic secrecey issues involved?)

Mom...
Dec 9 1920 , Bridgeport, Ct no birthtime known, but i always placed her as a scorp ascendant...for a variety of reasons... somewhere between 5:30 to 6:15 pm. I lean towards a 8th house/9th house cusp pluto as her father was murdered when she was 18 mopnths old. Giving her that sagittarian "fatherless' archtype but with scorpionic overtones...of course Pluto in the 9th alone would give that combination of signatures. Regardless..my Mom had that penetrating scorpionic gaze with all the tendencies towards secrecy that would make me sure of a scorp ascend.

 Dad ... July 15, 1923 , also Bridegport Ct.. hey they were both the Pluto Cancer generation, dodn;t move far from home :-)  birth time unknown.. I can see my Dad as a taurus ascend.. putting his birthtime around 2pm , he was a mechanical engineer and professor, but did have to struggle to get his degrees, a logical and liner thinker... and his familiy was his life...so the third house pluto with the 4 planets in the 4th makes sense.

Both of them definatly 3rd stage consensus... as well as my sister.


Thanks for allowing this exploration.... Pat
Logged

Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #3 on: Jan 22, 2010, 07:38 PM »

Hi Patricia,

Woa, what a story...I guess life is more diverse and surprising than any fiction can ever be....

I personally don't think at all that it is too personal, I rather think you are very right it can be a real 'astro detective' task.

Thank goodness it's friday, so I have some time to look at your sister's chart;

I feel from her chart she is more than likely adopted.....there is a long karmic/evolutionary past (as I see it) which needs culmination and healing....

But of course this is only my view....
I believe this life she was adopted with pure intention to bring her up as your parents' own and that all came out of wanting to protect her to make her feel secure at the first plaace.

(In this life....for the soul had many other life times which were very different)
 
As for this life what I see relative to what you shared as actual reality reference point: she was made believe for 4 long years before your arrival (as you said) that she was the daughter of your parents.
(1st house pisces s.node ruled by scorpio neptune conj. mercury and sun: belief via communication, (mercury)  of a 'truth'  9th house, and in this life with love (scorpio) with the intention (scorpio) to make her believe, 9th house, something which ESSENTIALLY was true, especially emotionally -cancer moon and scorpio mercury =reasoning) Her life  (sun) revolved around this knowledge and understanding = this interpretation (9th house) relative to her subjective reality regarding her life/existence (sun)
9th house cusp is libra and the planets are in scorpio while scorpio is intercepted in 9th (something is hidden there about the truth) so is taurus intercepted in the 3rd. The roots (taurus) are within the most changeable archetype, 3rd house. House cusp of course different, it is aries=identity, so her identity has been identified via her immediate environment within which the roots (also of course ruled by venus in sag in 10th just as the 9th house cusp but venus rules only the intercepted sign and not the whole 3rd house.
There issues of rooting within the changes of the immediate environment which directly affects her personal identify. That 3rd house of course is ruled by mars in cancer in the 5th (subjective reality) and conj. lucifer in 5th and black moon lilith which falls in the 6th. That is about to improve the ways how she emotionally defines her security. Moon rules mars in the 5th; how it was defined had a lot to do with family and biological origin. While black moon lilith in the 6th is about to define emotional security via learning the actual reality about it..... even if the biological origin is not what it seemed even if something was denied about it the emotional message is still the same....

Your mother had the intention to make her totally 'her own' so to speak relataive to the culture....which indeed made people to conform to those norms i.e adoption was secretive (scorpio) BUT all this was done for the right reasons FROM the mother’s own point of view, and how she saw your sister's interest and security again from that point of view. Saturn is opp. to mars, mars rules naturally the 1st and rules the 3rd; identity defined by the immediate environment. Which was true for many lives for the soul but in this life it was again for the right reason and not for any ulterior agenda. Mercury and sun are both new conj. to neptune. A totally new cycle is starting for the soul from the neptune - illusion/divine - point of view. And neptune is opposite to urania in the 3rd in taurus...roots. Liberating from past patterns without the often highly traumatising affect of uranus.

 So all this has to do with the cultural and venus in 10th in sag tells that story: this rules the 9th so the 'story' she was told and internalised the belief, the 'truth' came out of the cultural values and norms that dictated your parents to make an appearance (libra) of a socially more acceptable (10 thouse) story about the truth. (9th house plus sag venus). Point being again it was a typical 'white lie' (libra) to make society leave them alone (saturn in 11th) and to make your sister to feel completely safe and secure (cancer moon in 5th). The intention (scorpio) in this life (n.node ruler is mercury) was true and right. Unlike in prior lives (neptune-delusion/illusion/lies by people the soul trusted of course and loved)
In this life it was a reason, prior lives it was a deceit.

The soul has memories of betrayals and traumas and the soul’s evolutionary intention is to heal from all that. (virgo pluto and n.node in 7th)

The fact that she was 4 and your parents felt they 'had to' tell her the bottomline truth about your arrival (mercury- also sibling, scorpio bottomline)  i.e. that you were adopted implies that there must have been some very KEEN interest in that little 4 years old girl to ask questions they couldn’t ignore that it would be dishonouring her developing intellect if they do the ‘white lie’.  Why they didn’t tell about her, well I see it as an intention (scorpio) and dilemma (scorpio).  They didn’t want to confuse her already developed identity telling a 4 years old that she was adopted while she always believed the opposite can be really difficult. Then as time passed by (capr. saturn and jup) it appeared ever more impossible I guess. Moon opp. jup, mars opp. satrun.
 
 I guess your sis must had some unconscious memories triggered asking questions at 4; uranus in 7th balsamic to pluto. Must have been deep and objective questions:-)

Uranus leo, pluto is virgo. So this life is a culmination of surprising issues about the people via which the soul identified her reality via many life times. Amongst other things virgo is also the sign of 'sorting out facts‘ about the actual reality. The soul for many lives have been identifying itself via other people's perception and feedback. In the past this was operating from the 1st house  s.node, illusions confusions which at one point reveals itself. That was uranus in the 7th......the soul also has a skipped step condition by venus in the 10th...what the soul was conditioned to believe by way of social/familial environment was the base how it related to itself and others.

Ruled by 11th capr. jup, conj. juno and saturn is just 12 degrees away also in capr. in 11th. So on the one hand there are unexpected surprises about the social sphere the soul experienced as reality and there have been unexpected truths popping out at one point which have been traumatic at times.....

And uranus rules the 1st and ceres is in the 1st close to the AC, conj. chiron and opposite to uranus in 7th. So the objective reality in the past has caused much shock and pain ....related in the past to the estranged, alienated (aq) mother (ceres) which happened in many lives in the past in traumatic ways........In this life the soul was probably removed from her biological mother very early on for reasons of the mother‘s own. But this is just a repetition of an old pattern.

In the past it was different. Anyhow, I would say that TECHNICALLY this pattern has been brought over in a sense that the skipped step condition (venus) shows, this is not the first life the soul has been adopted secretly for the right reason.  But in recent past life the traumas from the past regarding deceit may confused the soul even when there was no intention to deceive her soul. (As in the past there was)

 
It is an interesting evolutionary issue the soul is dealing with:7th and 1st house nodal axis, while pluto is 7th and conj. n.node. She comes from a past of deceit about her identity but it is not the case in this life. So no polarity applies to pluto, it is supposed to continue within the 7th house virgo context.

But because venus is squaring the nodes the s.node of course hits back as an echo of the past. But the resolution node is the 7th house virgo n.node: understanding other people's actual reality as it exist for them. Relative to this adoption/confused identity issue to me it seems nothing but understanding the parents reason and understanding it with love in a deeper way. Her parents simply wanted to give the best they could in a way that was from the point of view of their reality and the culture they lived in giving her the optimum chance to belong and feel secure. That’s what the soul is striving for so long. (moon is balsamic to mars in 5th in cancer) It is culminating.  

The soul is learning the relativity of reality 7th house - and uranus being also balsamic to pluto there have been some real bad traumas in the past by this lesson. In the past the soul was shocked and fragmented by the heartbreaks that objective reality brought in at one point or another.

These memories are likely triggered at this time.....yet to me the point is that the objective reality in THIS life is just that she was adopted for the right reasons (mercury in 9th ruler of pluto in 7th) and no confusion has been caused to her REAL identity. Who and what the soul really is ( ruler of pluto in 9th) WAS supported with love and life long commitment (scorpio).

In the past there have been very different scenarios regarding confused identity and regarding her family of origin - especially mother (ceres on the AC in the 1st ruled by uranus from the 7th; conj. chiron both opp. to uranus pisces s.node ruled by neptune in 9th) the soul was deceived about both, what for she was there where she was and who the soul was, i.e. her identity. The truth about the origin and the biological mother and how the soul ended up where she was living was indeed a shocking story many many lives; creating indeed a confusion identity and alienation at one point from the society and from the relationships the soul believed till one point she belonged to. In those past lives the soul have been removed from far away cultures (9th house neptune ruler of s.node) with secret agendas )scorpio) which at the same time aimed to create illusions for the soul about itself.
All this started around the time when the soul encountered the patriarchal system of course:  s.node is conj. to asteroid lilith. It was indeed a common practice for invaders to take some of the children of the conquered people and bring them up according to their whatever agenda. Some children like this soul have been identified as ’special’ for some purposes of their own. They brought these souls up via making them believe a totally illusionary reality that served their aims....

So there are some old scars in the soul relating to those kind of experiences of the past. Because the soul's whole life, (sun) it’s  identity and beliefs of who it was relative to the societies it was brought up in were based on secrets, lies and deceits....the people who done that of course developed a close relationship with the soul and the soul became extremely dependent on those relationships, in fact it had no other ’life purpose’ then to serve those distorted relationships - while it had no idea that this was the case. I believed (9th house) it was loved (leo on 7th) and appreciated etc. while in actual reality (virgo) it was a slave....with a role to entertain (leo) and serve (virgo) those who in reality captured the soul (scorpio neptune, pisces s.node) and made her a slave. (virgo pluto in 7th) But the truth was hidden for so long. One point however it came out and all the ulterior truth came out in the form of extreme traumas of some sorts...involving breaking the soul’s heart and many times ending it’s life in a very violent fashion....
....these traumas are signified by leo uranus in 7th and leo is also the cusp of the 7th....people saw the soul as special and perhaps beautiful etc. which was the reason at the first place to displace the soul from it‘s people (neptune in 9th ruler of s.node, saturn in 11th, estrangement alienation) and let her believe an illusionary reality and identity....it was a total delusion about love....that’s what the soul believed it was of course until the wake up call by way of uranus....

Reality (saturn) was cantered around the people and the society that conditioned the soul, and yet that saturn is in the 11th; those conditionings were actually traumatising and alienating, the soul felt disconnected and utterly alone (11th saturn, pisces s.node) it was also an escape to believe in the illusionary reality of love.....yet a slave is never really loved it is owned.....and discarded when not needed anymore....

In this life is a part of many culmination and many new beginnings.....the soul has the chance to liberate and throw off these old scaring patterns.  Jup is balsamic to saturn, the objective truth about it all catching up.....it became a kind of an unconscious 'habit' of not knowing her identity having some blurry secrets about it......but that is just the echo of the past. We tend to recreate things even when we resolve them.....

In this life n.node and pluto are both in the 7th in virgo; it is the healing time.
In this life the ruler of the n.node is what matters and that is not neptune, it is mercury.
And that rules of course pluto too. There is no deceitful intention but a simple reason attached to the issue, as above. Cultural (9th house) consideration and no ulterior agenda attached to it.
However for the soul it is part of the culmination process while also the new beginning.

I believe your sister repeated the essence of the experience, being brought up by others than it's biological parents and yet being brought up with an intention to teach the soul that love indeed exist..........in this life she wasn't 'needed' because she was viewed special for some ulterior agendas -as in the past - she was just simply unconditionally accepted and loved (7th house) without any other agenda.  So this life the soul was special because she was loved....not the opposite way around making the soul believe she was loved BECAUSE she was perceived as special in some ways....

I believe your parents loved her in a simple way; loved her because she was their daughter and THAT was true. Our biological relations are only helping us to learn what love is.....your sister is certainly learning that lesson i.e. what is the actual reality about love and learning to discriminate what is not ‘it’......unconditional love in the possible simplest way is the love of parents towards their children....

I believe your parents did the best they could to play that role to be her 'teachers of love' in this life....and the soul certainly needed that for long. So in that sense her parents were just people (capr/saturn0 biologically totally unrelated (11 house) but by way of taking her in to the center of their life as their daughter she became special....truly special and that has nothing to do with anything but the eye of the beholder.

When we view a soul ANY soul with love we will see their special ness. View any soul without love and we can't even see them..... not even the most special one. The  'reason' for love is the same it is in the eye of the beholder....for the real reason is not in leo, it is in virgo: as little and as insignificant we may be in ACTUAL reality we are an equal part of the divine creation and that is more than enough reason to be loved an accepted just the way we are.
People who love us unconditionally may not be perfect....like her parents may not find the solution for this adoption issue and it may come as a shock to her now.....But that’s just the echo of her own soul’s evolutionary past and the endless confusion about what is true, what is divine what is deceit .....However when love is real everything is real.......so the parents imperfection i.e. not being able to or being afraid to tell her about her whole story doesn’t remove an inch from their love and devotion as her actual parents. ...for that was true and at the end all that’s what matters. We all belong to the same ‘family’ called humanity....11th house.....in her chart sag cusp, saturn jup in it....an objective reality which I feel the soul is learning......


So that's how I perceive it - of course there can be many more additions and different views....I'd be interested what others may 'dig out' as astro detectives....


Love and blessings,
Lia
« Last Edit: Jan 22, 2010, 07:55 PM by Lia » Logged
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #4 on: Jan 22, 2010, 08:56 PM »

Lia... thank you for your exhaustive and detailed look at this chart. It's late and I don't have time to reply fully now, i also have clients all day tommorrow..so possibly sunday. I look forward to following your correlations. From what i read skimming what you wrote it seems spot on... what jumped out at me was that i hadn't looked at the Lucifer placement..which you mentioned. With it in the 5th..conj Mars.. her achillies heel (or Lucifer) in this life has been entitlement issues (leo-Mars) She enacted this through childhood and does also in her relationships. I can see that this event bringing about it's related questions can certainly transform and hopefully heal that entitlement dynamic.


Patricia
Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 16998


« Reply #5 on: Jan 23, 2010, 08:53 AM »

HI Patricia,

  Do you know the reasons that you mother got that hysterectomy in the first place ? Why at that time ?

Rad
Logged
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #6 on: Jan 23, 2010, 01:09 PM »


Thanks Rad... no we don't know. I have grown up with the knowledge, not remebering any specific conversation about it, that we were told that my mother had a difficult pregnancy and had to have a hysterectomy as a result... thus why they could not have further children, and wanted to adopt me. I guess in my mind I always thought it was after she delivered .  Pat
Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 16998


« Reply #7 on: Jan 24, 2010, 09:45 AM »

Hi Pat,


Thanks Rad... no we don't know. I have grown up with the knowledge, not remebering any specific conversation about it, that we were told that my mother had a difficult pregnancy and had to have a hysterectomy as a result... thus why they could not have further children, and wanted to adopt me. I guess in my mind I always thought it was after she delivered .  Pat

Well looking at the dates you supplied for the hysterectomy, relative to when your sister was born, this story would not hold up would it ? It would seem from those dates that your mom already had the hysterectomy before the conception of your sister and / or conceiving then almost immediately having this hysterectomy. In either case it seems highly unlikely that your mother could be the biological parent of your sister. Here is a medical article I downloaded about this:

***************************************************************************

  Pregnancy After Hysterectomy: Can I Become Pregnant with No Uterus?
hysterectomy.


Many women believe once they have undergone a hysterectomy they will no longer have to worry about achieving pregnancy. But, is this really the case? Believe it or not, women can achieve pregnancy even after having a hysterectomy.

In order to better understand how a woman can become pregnant after having a hysterectomy, we must understand that not all hysterectomies are created equal. A total hysterectomy is the removal of the uterus, fallopian tubes as well as the ovaries and the cervix. Not all women undergo a
 total hysterectomy. In many cases, when healthy, the ovaries are left in the body to continuing producing hormones thus rendering hormone replacement therapy unneeded. Along with the ovaries the fallopian tubes are commonly left in tact. This type of hysterectomy is called a partial hysterectomy.

If a woman has undergone a partial hysterectomy, the ovaries will continue to produce and release eggs. While most of the time the eggs are either reabsorbed by the body or fertilized and result in a self-abortion before the mother realizes she is pregnant, this is not always the case.

In very rare cases, a woman's body will allow the fertilized egg to attach to other organs in the abdomen or the walls of one the fallopian tubes. Once the egg has attached, the fetus will grow just as it would inside of the uterus. With the hormones in tact the fetus can and in some cases will survive undetected. If the fetus is viable enough to grow for several weeks, the mother's life will immediately be in danger. Without a period due to the hysterectomy, the woman may never know she is pregnant.

The fertilized and attached babies rarely survive more than a few days. If the fetus was attached inside a fallopian tube or to another organ a woman may experience bleeding or pain in the abdomen. Any woman who experiences bleeding from the vagina after a hysterectomy will need to go to the hospital immediately. Tubal pregnancies and abdominal pregnancies can be life threatening to the mother. Once at the hospital the pregnancy will be verified and the fetus will then have to be removed by a gynecologist or an obstetrician.

It is important to note that cases of pregnancy after a hysterectomy are extremely rare. In most cases the baby will have attached inside the fallopian tube which can be deadly to the mother. Even more rare than a tubal pregnancy after a hysterectomy is a pregnancy due to a didelphic uterus. A didelphic uterus is better known as a double uterus. If the condition is left undetected after a hysterectomy, the second uterus can hold a child to full term.

For women who are post hysterectomy, the thought of pregnancy rarely crosses the mind. Hysterectomy is synonymous with sterility. In cases where at least one ovary and one fallopian tube is left after a partial hysterectomy, pregnancy after hysterectomy, though rare, can happen. If you feel you may be pregnant, contact your gynecologist immediately.

****************************************************************************

    After reading this am wondering how this would make you think about this ? Additionally, sense we are playing astro detectives, am wondering if you think it might be possible for your sister to be your fathers daughter, but that the biological other is not in fact your mother ? Don't mean to be ringing unnecessary alarm bells, and if you think I am out of bounds please let me know.


  Rad
« Last Edit: Jan 24, 2010, 09:50 AM by Rad » Logged
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #8 on: Jan 24, 2010, 10:59 AM »

Thanks Rad... Well I also have read as many medical papers i could to try to understand the biological basis for that question. Problem is some of them you can only read abstracts and need to purchase the papers. This is of course the very thing my sister and I did not know..is it medically possible? When i though of partial hysterectomy my thinking was overies taken out , yet uterus and cervix left intact to carry the baby or part of the uterus left. Since then i have found that is not the definition of 'partial'. In the meantime my sister has called her oby/gyn to see what is and is not medically possible... but hasn't heard back yet. Since the hysterectomy reported on the insurance paper did not say exactly what parts were removed...the medical feasability of carrying a baby to term, without overies, but a uterus, or partial uterus..cervix etc.. would certainly be the definante yes or no answer.

from what i have read since my initial post.. and yes I read the article you posted also on the web... it is looking more and more like it is not medically possible in any scenario..

Your question regarding my Dad being the biological father but not my mother, is certainly reasonable, but my Mother was waaaaaay to much a jelous and controlling type to have agreed to any such arrangment. Her pride would never had allowed such a disgrace..which would be the way she would have saw such a thing.

thanks for your input... On a personal level i feel a great sadness for my sister.. not that they were not amazing and loving parents(with thier faults of course), but having been thru the whole adoption wounds and procesing and subsequent healing, I feel for her and the kind of psychological journey that entails.
Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 16998


« Reply #9 on: Jan 24, 2010, 11:31 AM »

Hi Pat,
  Well given that is seems like a medical impossibility then that would only leave the scenario of adoption given your statements about your mom, and the possibility that i mentioned. If that is then the case why would your parents not then be honest about that ?

 Rad
Logged
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #10 on: Jan 24, 2010, 12:29 PM »

Well Rad, the whole aura around my Mom was one of secrecy. She never talked about her own father who was murdered..as I believe she felt shamed by this. i only found out my G-fathers true story , by working with him in the spirit world. Later after my mother passed, and I prompted my Dad for info, he verified much of what I learned from my G-fathers spirit.

So on the adoption issue, I think they did try to concieve for years  hence why she was 40 when my sister came about. But being unable to concieve , slowly I am starting to believe they adopted. My Mother might have felt herself to be a failure as a woman..again she was very proud..and had some real narcassitic tendencies. Also culterally at the time..especially if one adopted a baby, who would have no other memories, ..there was that 'don't ask, don't tell' thinking. Today if a woman has a hysterectomy the psychological impact of that might be more understood and worked with... her feeling less of a woman etc.. But back then.. not so much, so that also could have affected my mother. Further... they would have wanted to make both of us thier own..as much as possible... and in that way I feel out of love, however misguided.. but with that intention. In fact they changed my name when they adopted me at almost 3... to name me after my Fathers father.. Patrick, which i think today would be unbelievable. LOL and only added to my personal identity confusions ( Pisces ascend) And I never found out any of that till my Dad slipped up with other info also about 10 years ago. They actually DID know a lot about my infanthood but always said they didn't. Finding out that info was painful (ie.. they lied to me for most of my life), but ulimatly liberating as it healed a lot in me and led me to meet my Birth mother. So i have always been grateful to my Dad for his slip up ;-)

My Dad i am sure would have wanted to tell us, but since my Mom was the dominant one, he always deffered to her. Maybe his conciouss botherd him..So I don;t find it surprising that it was thru his passing that this came out (just like his slip up helped me)... in fact (my sister told me this today) the ins paper my sister found was not anywhere near the actual policy they filled it out for,  but was stuffed in the sleeve of one of my Fathers checkbooks from 2005!!! Why keep this application from 1960 until 2005, they had the actual policy..the application had no value? And how many times he had to transfer it to new checkbooks (or hiding places) in the course of 40 years!! Subconscously he could not let that paper go... so bless him for that.. 
So that is my thinking on thier reasons and rationale... if you percieve something different or additional please share ;-0  Thank you also for walking thru this with me.

As I look at my Mom's chart in relation to this. I am definatly leading towards an 8th house pluto with the nodes in the 6/12..neptune sq the nodes from the 9th.

Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 16998


« Reply #11 on: Jan 24, 2010, 12:58 PM »

HI Pat,

 Well your reasoning, for them, all makes perfect sense. Just wondering if that were all true then why not also tell you that you were their own ? What would be the difference between you and your sister in this regard ? All this is clear from the charts is that an unusual circumstance existed relative to your sister and her origins. One of the symbols I find interesting when you do a tri-wheel between your sister, father, and mother ..using you sister as the first chart, then your parents around that, is the conjunction between your sisters Moon in Cancer, your father's Venus, and your mom's Ceres. And these are all in opposition your sister's Jupiter and Saturn, and this then squares your Mom's Chiron in Aries in your sister's second house, and your father's Chiron is also in Aries in your sister's second house. The sexual issue that you have shared about your mom certainly shows up in these symbols that could be the very cause for the adoption of BOTH OF YOU.
  Hmmm..........

 Rad
Logged
PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #12 on: Jan 24, 2010, 04:00 PM »

Well Rad seems your enjoying puffing on your Sherlock Holmes pipe  Smiley

The reason they would reveal I was adopted but not my sister is I was almost 3 and my sister almost 5 years when i was adopted. My sister had clear memories of my arrival and events leading up to that. while in my sisters case she was probably an infant..at least less that a year old...so no memory. There are baby pictures of her..but not tiny baby pictures.

The Chiron square you point out is very interesting. I am interested to see what it is about the venus, ceres, moon conj in the tri wheel that you see...meaning-wise. What jumped out at me was more my Moms Pluto on my sisters moon.. and my Mothers Moon/sun conj square my sisters nodes..the moon being a really tight square
Logged

PatriciaW
Active Member
*
Posts: 101


« Reply #13 on: Jan 24, 2010, 08:15 PM »

Welll this case is now closed... We thought of one old familiy freind that we could contact to see what she knew...and she told my sister she was adopted. In fact this woman did not even know that my sister did not know. Wow...is all I can say... thanks Rad for pursuing this on this board

Lia thanks so much for your insight...it appears in fact your analysis was spot on :-) Good work!!

Logged

Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #14 on: Jan 25, 2010, 05:53 AM »

Hi Patricia,

I'm glad the issue has been resolved by facts....hopefully it will lead to healing and resolution..learning of equality is the main lesson.....this of course relates to sibling equality as well....

Just like to say, i haven't really gone into 'analysis' I only looked at the chart from the point of view of your question.....

There are deeper reason from your sister's soul point of view as WHY she has choosen this kind of way to feel secure (cancer) and create a subjective reality of illusion (1st house pisces s.node) ....
I am not sure how you feel about the whole thing and wasn't sure if I share further/deeper would that be appropriate ....

If you are interested I'd be happy to share the deeper reasons for those 'whys' especially that now the facts are revealed...so the aq. intent on the 1st ruled by the 7th uranus is coming to light....

But of course only if you think it is needed ....

Love and blessings,
Lia
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Video