Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Various conditions of Rulers of the Moon's Nodes  (Read 4511 times)
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 350


« on: Jan 27, 2010, 02:24 AM »

Hi All,

Over time I've come across quite a few charts with variations of Moon nodal rulers in relationship to each other, one or both of the Moon nodes, and sometimes also the Moon, or Pluto itself.

I realise that only limited info can be taken from these factors in isolation from the rest of the chart, but some basic guidelines are probably applicable (hopefully).

I'll list them here, also with what I make of them to start things off, but I'd really like to get to grips with these things a bit more and would appreciate if anyone would correct, validate or expand my understanding.

SNo= South Node, NNo = North Node
(Unless stated there are no other karmic signature {Node/Pluto} mitigating factors)

1. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT SNo -or- Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT NNo
2. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo
3. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo (which is Pluto itself)
4. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo, and both also CONJUNCT SNo
5. Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT SNo, both CONJUNCT Pluto
6. Moon CONJUNCT SNo, Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT Pluto
7. Ruler NNo CONJUNCT SNo, Ruler SNo SQUARE NNo/SNo axis (applying to NNo)
8. Rulers of both Nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other

1) Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT SNo -or- Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT NNo




2) Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo




3) Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo (which is Pluto itself)





4) Ruler of SNo and Ruler NNo CONJUNCT, and both also CONJUNCT SNo



In Pluto2 p30 Jeffrey states that when the ruler of the NNo is conj the SNo then the same karmic conditions as for Pluto conj the SNo apply. And that the PP for pluto will not be actualised until all the evolutionary conditions associated with the house/sign of SNo, it's ruler house/sign and ruler's aspects to other planets are all fulfilled first.

5) Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT SNo, both CONJUNCT Pluto



 
6) Moon CONJUNCT SNo, Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT Pluto (and Pluto is quintile the moon)




7) Ruler NNo CONJUNCT SNo, Ruler SNo SQUARE NNo/SNo axis (applying to NNo)




Note: In the graphic it appears Pluto is also SQUARE to the NNo/SNo axis, and therefore applying to NNo, and while there is a "natural" square by sign, it's actually out of orb for a square in the person's chart (Plu 24Li, NNo 12 Cn). (This is using a 10 deg orb for a square, as recommended by Jeffrey in another post on here http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,82.0.html).

8. Rulers of both nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other
Breaking it down into HARD (opp/square/semisquare/sesquisquare/quincunx), SOFT (trine/sextile) and SUBTLE (quintile/septile) aspects ... I'm curious if anybody has to anything to say about these situations.

Thanks, Upasika
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2010, 04:18 PM by Upasika » Logged
Elen
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 879


« Reply #1 on: Jan 27, 2010, 12:19 PM »

Hi All,

8. Rulers of both nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other
Breaking it down into HARD (opp/square/semisquare/sesquisquare/quincunx), SOFT (trine/sextile) and SUBTLE (quintile/septile) aspects ... I'm curious if anybody has to anything to say about these situations.

Thanks, Upasika


Hi Upasaka,

Just thought I'd comment on #8 from my own experience of it.  In my case, the rulers of my nodes are in square aspect to one another.  There is also the caveat that another planet squares both nodes, indicating skipped steps with regard to the south node (I believe).  My own experience of this is that the square between the nodal rulers forces me to deal with the skipped steps and prevents me from moving on until the square aspect is integrated.  I think the square aspect has a lot to do with this, but I am not sure how much has to do with the specific planets involved.  I'd be happy to share specifics if you or anyone else thinks that would be helpful.  There are also some more caveats to the astrological picture, but I thought I'd keep it simple.

Thanks for the post.

Peace,
Ellen
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 350


« Reply #2 on: Jan 27, 2010, 07:04 PM »

8. Rulers of both nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other


Hi Upasika,

Just thought I'd comment on #8 from my own experience of it.  In my case, the rulers of my nodes are in square aspect to one another.  There is also the caveat that another planet squares both nodes, indicating skipped steps with regard to the south node (I believe).  My own experience of this is that the square between the nodal rulers forces me to deal with the skipped steps and prevents me from moving on until the square aspect is integrated.  I think the square aspect has a lot to do with this, but I am not sure how much has to do with the specific planets involved.  I'd be happy to share specifics if you or anyone else thinks that would be helpful.  There are also some more caveats to the astrological picture, but I thought I'd keep it simple.

Thanks for the post.

Peace,
Ellen

Hi Ellen,

Well, all these intricacies are what's intriguing me at the moment too, I'd really like to know more about them. I think I agree with you on all points: from people I know with the square between moon nodal rulers there is a general tendency to struggle with the planets involved, and while that's normal with any planets in square to each other I feel it's intensified when they are the moon node rulers. But obviously it makes a difference as to what planets are in square as some planets are much more compatible in any connecion to each other than others are. For instance Moon and Venus in square are not as difficult usually as Saturn and Moon in square to each other.

But I get the feeling that the struggle with the square between the node rulers is made more intense, or difficult, in all cases when it's the node rulers, as there is a critical underlying issue at stake - the evolution of the soul itself. In fact I think this probably applies to any aspect between the node rulers, hard or soft. I'd love to hear more from others what they think about it from the EA perspective.

And I agree it may not be so simple. While not all, many of the people I know with their node rulers in square to each other also have other caveats (or mitigating factors) impinging on the node ruler condition. So, yes I'd be interested in knowing what yours are so we could explore further. Maybe you could post your chart if that's appropriate (?) or give your birth details, or just outline the caveats.

Obviously in your case it sounds like there will be primary pressure to fulfill the SNo area anyway, as it sounds like the planet squaring the nodal axis is applying to the SNo. (Excuse me if you do know, but just in case you aren't sure how to determine this - the node that you first come to, when you move clockwise round the chart from the planet squaring the nodes, is the node -that the planet squaring the nodes- is applying to. And therefore this is the node that must be consistently developed (along with it's ruler etc) to move everything else forward).

But then it gets a little complicated when the other node's ruler is so directly impinging on the situation !

Personally I find it confusing in my own life experience, and I suspect it may be like this in all these other situations as well when the nodal rulers are directly connected, at least by a major aspect.

In your case, do you find it consistently difficult to express/manifest your NNo ruler? or do you yo-yo back and forth between expressing both NNo and SNo ruling planets in the chart?

blessings Upasika
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 11:08 PM by Upasika » Logged
Elen
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 879


« Reply #3 on: Jan 28, 2010, 12:55 PM »

8. Rulers of both nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other


Hi Upasika,

Just thought I'd comment on #8 from my own experience of it.  In my case, the rulers of my nodes are in square aspect to one another.  There is also the caveat that another planet squares both nodes, indicating skipped steps with regard to the south node (I believe).  There are also some more caveats to the astrological picture, but I thought I'd keep it simple.


Hi Ellen,

Well, all these intricacies are what's intriguing me at the moment too, I'd really like to know more about them.  
Maybe you could post your chart if that's appropriate (?) or give your birth details, or just outline the caveats.


blessings Upasika


Hi Upasaka,

Thanks for your response.  I'm not sure what's appropriate or not w/ regard to posting my chart, so I'll wait to see what an administrator has to say.  

The caveats are these:  in addition to the rulers of the nodes squaring each other and a third planet squaring the nodes, there is the following: both nodal rulers in minor aspect (novile, septile) to the third planet; the ruler of the north node trine Pluto (if 5 degrees is an acceptable orb in EA...) and opposed Neptune (making a t-square with the ruler of the south node); Neptune sextile Pluto (if 3 degrees is an acceptable orb); the south node in cap in the 4th (along with Sun, Mercury, Mars), the north node in cancer in the 10th, all by itself.

I'll post more in a bit...
  

« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 04:06 PM by Ellen » Logged
Elen
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 879


« Reply #4 on: Jan 28, 2010, 04:28 PM »


[/quote]

Hi Ellen,

I think I agree with you on all points: from people I know with the square between moon nodal rulers there is a general tendency to struggle with the planets involved, and while that's normal with any planets in square to each other I feel it's intensified when they are the moon node rulers. But obviously it makes a difference as to what planets are in square as some planets are much more compatible in any connecion to each other than others are. For instance Moon and Venus in square are not as difficult usually as Saturn and Moon in square to each other.

But I get the feeling that the struggle with the square between the node rulers is made more intense, or difficult, in all cases when it's the node rulers, as there is a critical underlying issue at stake - the evolution of the soul itself. In fact I think this probably applies to any aspect between the node rulers, hard or soft. I'd love to hear more from others what they think about it from the EA perspective.

And I agree it may not be so simple. While not all, many of the people I know with their node rulers in square to each other also have other caveats (or mitigating factors) impinging on the node ruler condition.

blessings Upasika
[/quote]

Hi Upasaka,

I, too, would be interested in hearing what others have to say.  What you have posted makes sense to me on an intuitive level, ie, the intensification of the square due to "the issue at stake - the evolution of the soul itself," and I am wondering if EA would indeed confirm this.

With regard to hard v. soft aspects, my initial thought was that soft aspects might actually facilitate in a more friendly way the evolution of the soul.  In other words, the person might feel that they have something to draw on, rather than something to overcome, to realize the nodal imperative (for lack of better phrase).  On this, too, I would be interested in a true EA perspective, as I am only going on intuition rather than on experience in looking at others' charts or on adequate EA study.

Ellen

Logged
Elen
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 879


« Reply #5 on: Jan 28, 2010, 04:50 PM »

8. Rulers of both nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other


In your case, do you find it consistently difficult to express/manifest your NNo ruler? or do you yo-yo back and forth between expressing both NNo and SNo ruling planets in the chart?

blessings Upasika

Hi again,

Hmm, I'd never really thought about it in those terms.  I'd say that I find it difficult to make any progress w/ regard to the NNo (I am a Capricorn, and the NNo is in the 10th house, so this is and would be frustrating for me) and that, as I am beginning to understand it, the reason for that is because of the square aspect (between the rulers of the nodes) that needs to be resolved and because of the heavy emphasis on the SNo - skipped steps and 4th house emphasis.  In thinking about it in terms of your question, I would say that I do experience difficulty expressing my NNo ruler (Moon) because it is so hampered by Saturn.  And I would say that this is the design - to force me to deal with the Moon, thus giving me a foundation on which to develop in accordance with the nodes.

It would be interesting to know how those with squares between the nodal rulers with no significant mitigating factors experience the square.  It would also be interesting to know how those with a NNo emphasis experience it.  In my experience of a SNo emphasis, progress absolutely cannot be made until the past is dealt with.

Hope this helps, and makes sense,
Ellen

Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 350


« Reply #6 on: Jan 28, 2010, 11:08 PM »

Hi Ellen,

I think when there are simple conjunctions between the nodal ruler(s) and the node(s) or Pluto some basic principles can apply, as Jeffrey gives some of them in Pluto vol2, but in a situation like yours I'm starting to realise probably much more of the whole chart has to be taken into account. So rather than posting your chart would you be ok to just give your birth details here, then I can look at your chart offline, and then get back to you? ... otherwise I'll see what I make of these chart factors just from the description of you've given.

Upasika
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 11:10 PM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21416


« Reply #7 on: Jan 29, 2010, 01:28 PM »

HI Upasika,

  I will try to go through each of your points about all these different combinations in the next few days. These are , indeed, relevant questions about the nature of the EA paradigm. Just reading through all the different points that you listed left me feeling dizzy. Once that dizziness settles I will try my best to answer your questions.

 Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 350


« Reply #8 on: Jan 29, 2010, 03:54 PM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you - I'll really look forward to that, because it makes me dizzy too, it's been building in me for a while and I've always felt a quite flumoxed trying to get a handle on it all !

Upasika
Logged
Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #9 on: Jan 30, 2010, 10:37 AM »

 As Rad answered in the post below specifically to all the questions I removed my post sorry:-) What he said is clearer and I don't mean to confuse anyone:-) 
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2010, 04:57 PM by Lia » Logged
Lia
Active Member
*
Posts: 135


« Reply #10 on: Jan 30, 2010, 10:47 AM »

...as above:-)
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2010, 04:58 PM by Lia » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 21416


« Reply #11 on: Jan 30, 2010, 12:44 PM »

Hi Upasika,
 
 Here are the answers to the questions/ points that you brought up.

1. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT SNo -or- Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT NNo ?

When the ruler of the S.Node is conjunct the S.Node then one of three evolutionary /karmic conditions apply. (1) The planet and the aspects that it makes to other planets or in a total relive of the past because it has not been resolved or dealt with (2) a condition of fruition wherein the the archetypes involved have been totally developed to the point that they correlate as a natural resource  that is being brought  forwards into the current life relative  to the Soul's evolutionary intent  for the life or (3) a combination of both of these archetypes: elements of the past that have not been resolved, and elements that have.

When the ruler of the N.Node is conjunct the N.Node this correlates to an archetype, the planet on the N.Node, that the Soul has begun to actualize, develop, prior to the  current life in order to act upon to over all evolutionary intentions through this archetype. In the current life this archetype will be used by the Soul as the primary vehicle to continue it's ongoing evolutionary intentions that are symbolized by the entire EA paradigm and birth chart.



2. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo ?

This will correlate to the bringing forwards archetypes/ dynamics from the past, symbolized by the nature of the planet conjunct the N.Node,  that  need to be evolved in new ways that will be symbolized by the nature of the House and Sign of the N.Node, and aspects to that S.Node  planetary ruler and N.Node by other planets.

Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo (which is Pluto itself)?

This would then mean that the N.Node is Scorpio, and the S.Node is Taurus. With the S.Node being in Taurus this will correlate to a Soul that has been living in a kind of cocoon in the past: the frog in the well syndrome. The frog sees the sky above, but is afraid to embrace it for it makes the frog feel insecure from all that it can not control. It can control the space that it inhabits in the bottom of the well. The S.Node correlates to elements of our past evolutionary and past life background. With the S.Node in Taurus the Soul desires to stay in the bottom of the well in order to feel secure. Pluto itself also correlates to our evolutionary past, and the desires that correlate to those past life dynamics. The N.Node in Scorpio correlates with the Soul's evolutionary need to jump out of that well in order to expose it to the entire horizon of reality. Pluto of course also correlates to our evolutionary need to evolve from our past. Thus, it's natural polarity point in the birth chart. With the S.Node ruler conjunct Pluto and the N.Node this will correlate to the point number 2 that will now be symbolized  by deep inner and outer confrontations to the Soul whose intentions , the nature of the confrontations, is for force the Soul to evolve because of the limitations that have blocked the Soul from evolving in it's most recent past lifetimes.


4. Ruler of SNo CONJUNCT Ruler of NNo, and both also CONJUNCT SNo?

The Soul is recreating dynamics from the past in the current life in such a way that the current life will be almost identical to the Soul's most recent prior life(s). This then means a Soul has felt completely  unresolved about what the past life(s) has been and needs to relive it in  order to evolve beyond it. The nature of the planet ruling that N.Node , house and sign , correlates to , points the way, of how to resolve and move beyond that past.


5. Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT SNo, both CONJUNCT Pluto?

When Pluto is conjunct the S.Node one of three conditions apply that Wolf wrote about in his first Pluto book: a total relive of the past in which the Soul is locked into, a condition of total fruition relative to the house and sign that Pluto/S.Node is in that is intended be be brought forwards into the current life as a natural resource and (3) and combination of both. If the ruler of the N.Node is in a balsamic conjunction to the Pluto then a condition of totally needing to relive the past in order to finally culminate it is at hand. When the ruler of the N.Node is in a new phase to that Pluto then it correlates to a condition of fruition that the Soul in bringing forwards into the current life and expressed, actualized, in a new way relative to the overall evolutionary intentions for the current life.


6. Moon CONJUNCT SNo, Ruler of NNo CONJUNCT Pluto?

Again , with the Moon, or any other planet conjunct the S.Node one of three evolutionary / karmic conditions exist as defined above, and in Wolfs books. The nature of the planet, in this case, the Moon, correlates to what those conditions are: house, sign, and aspects to it. With the planetary ruler of the N.Node conjunct Pluto this will correlate to the fact that the evolutionary flow of the Soul symbolized by the N.Node itself , in the person's chart by house and sign, has been moved towards just prior to the current life. Thus, it is not something 'brand new', but relatively new. So the house, sign, of the N.Node has been used by the Soul, just prior to the current life, to help move forwards, to evolve, the conditions symbolized by the Moons  conjunction to the S.Node. By having the ruler of the N.Node conjunct Pluto itself symbolizes that the nature of the archetype of the planet that rules that N.Node serves like a magnifying glass within the Soul to keep moving the evolution of the Moon/S.Node conjunction forwards via the nature of that planet. The natural polarity point of Pluto , the bottom line in the Soul's current life evolutionary intent, will thus be consciously embraced by the Soul because it has been activated just prior to the current life. If the ruling planet of the N..Node is in a balsamic conjunction to Pluto then this correlates to the Soul , via the Moon/South Node conjunction, recreating circumstances of the past in the current life in order to make NEW CHOICES in the face of those circumstantial triggers. If the conjunction is a new phase to Pluto then this means that that Soul has succeeded in beginning to making new choices relative to past dynamics triggered by circumstances just prior to this life, and will continue to do so.

7. Ruler NNo CONJUNCT SNo, Ruler SNo SQUARE NNo/SNo axis (applying to NNo)?

That there has been skipped steps in the past as symbolized by the S.Node  ruler squaring the Nodal Axis and the intention is to recover those skipped steps in order to evolve. And that this intention of recovering those skipped steps has just preceeded the current life being lived as symbolized by the N.Node ruler conjunct the S.Node. That means that the Soul has created, just before the current life, circumstances that serve to trigger old dynamics that has kept the Soul bound to it's past: fixed. The intention here is to make new choices, the house and sign of the N.Node, in the face of those circumstances that trigger the old, past, dynamics. This is of course then emphasized by the S.Node ruler applying to the N.Node. If this is accomplished then the Soul will resolve the skipped steps.


8. Rulers of both Nodes in any non-conjunction aspect to each other?

The specific nature of the aspect will correlate to how the Soul's past and future interact in each moment in order for the Soul's evolutionary intentions in total to be actualized.


 Rad
Logged
Elen
Most Active Member
***
Posts: 879


« Reply #12 on: Jan 30, 2010, 04:43 PM »

Hi Ellen,

I think when there are simple conjunctions between the nodal ruler(s) and the node(s) or Pluto some basic principles can apply, as Jeffrey gives some of them in Pluto vol2, but in a situation like yours I'm starting to realise probably much more of the whole chart has to be taken into account. So rather than posting your chart would you be ok to just give your birth details here, then I can look at your chart offline, and then get back to you? ... otherwise I'll see what I make of these chart factors just from the description of you've given.

Upasika

Hi Upasaka,

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you.  I was feeling kind of hesitant to give you birth details because I wasn't sure it would be appropriate for the message board.  Mostly, I just wanted to communicate a little to you what it has felt like in my life to have your condition #8 (rulers of nodes square one another) in my chart.  I reading your last post, I agree with you that, given all the caveats in my chart, it might not be as good an example as I initially thought - that the whole chart needs to be considered.  In terms of getting into my chart factors more deeply, I'd prefer to wait to see what the board managers have to say.  So, I hope you don't mind that I don't go further for now.  And I hope I am not disappointing you too much.

Peace,
Ellen
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 350


« Reply #13 on: Feb 02, 2010, 01:29 AM »

Hi Ellen,

No, of course that's totally fine, and not a problem at all - I was just hoping to get a clearer view of the caveats to the square between the nodal rulers. But actually since then there has been quite a lot of material posted on nodal rulers and planets conjunct the nodes now which has shed much light on it all, and it all starts to make more sense.

One thing I think I'm understanding is that when the rulers are connected the same past dynamics will be focused on with the need to evolve them, to deal with them in a new way indicated by the NNode, and as you suspected, the aspect between them showing what this process will be like.

However, my feeling is that with skipped steps involved the square is reinforcing that the soul had an extra strong resistance to integrating the skipped steps in the first place (and maybe still does have this resistance), but that would need to be verified. And also with a square I might imagine it's a pretty tense process of wanting the future yet not being able to have it.

If thats true, your feeling that the square has forced you to recover the skipped steps fits in with that, because with the situation having come to a head in this lifetime (with the resistance to dealing with it having been extra strong in recent past lives) you would probably have the sense that it was super critical somehow to sort the skipped steps out as a matter of great urgency.

And this urgency to deal with the skipped steps (via the SNode as that is what the skipped steps planet is applying to) because of such resistance to doing so previously, may be another reason why expressing the NNode ruler (Moon) may be so difficult, apart from it being hampered by Saturn squaring it, because the NNode and it's ruler are now blocked from application to absolutely force the skipped steps to be recovered. (This is what you also felt, I've just added my interpretation of why that might have come about). But as I said, all this needs to be verified !

And thanks Ellen for sharing your situation - another very interesting variation of nodal ruler condition.

blessings Upasika




« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2010, 01:32 AM by Upasika » Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 350


« Reply #14 on: Feb 02, 2010, 01:49 AM »

As Rad answered in the post below specifically to all the questions I removed my post sorry:-) What he said is clearer and I don't mean to confuse anyone:-)  

Hi Lia,

I was just about to reply to your post ... and now I'm so glad I actually cut and pasted it out into a document on my hard drive, as otherwise I would have lost it all !

I totally enjoyed reading what you had to say Lia, I found it most interesting and educating, and in fact it didn't confuse me at all, it elaborated on what Rad had to say. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to write so extensively on all that, I am very grateful. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, was a bit tied up for a day or so, and then it took quite a while to read through it and digest it.

I got a great deal out of your in depth explanations of the whole Pluto, nodal ruler connections, and the penetrating view of how various evolutionary signatures can arise in a natal chart, the implied past of the soul that led to particular signatures. And in a couple of these signatures I know the people who have them very very well (one - I have it, and another - someone I know very well has that) and what you talked about I can verify with clear personal experience as actually being the case.

This has given me a much deeper appreciation of the core evolutionary dynamic ! ... and I'd certainly look forward to more of the same anytime you happened to write it.

blessings Upasika



« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2010, 04:29 AM by Upasika » Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Video