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Author Topic: NO PLUTO POLARITY POINT  (Read 5088 times)
Linda
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« on: Mar 17, 2009, 04:28 PM »

I'm looking at a friend's chart.  He seems to be redirected back to Natal Pluto.

His wife is demanding that he join her church declaring that her religion is the only complete truth on this earth.

In his own words:  "If matters of the 9th House are my Soul's intended direction, maybe I must find the courage to let go of ego, let go of the idea that it matters if someone is right or wrong, and do the temple thing for the love of family.  On the other hand, what if the energy is reversed and the decision to stand firm on what I have come to believe is what the Soul is prompting?  And what of self integrity?.......The subject [Pluto polarity] spins my head like a top. "

Could you please clarify the process of Pluto Polarity / Redirection / Facilitators in relation to his chart?   Huh  

His chart is attached.

Thank you.



* CS chart.gif (97.54 KB, 529x680 - viewed 229 times.)
« Last Edit: Aug 08, 2011, 09:10 PM by Linda » Logged
Stacie
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 17, 2009, 09:25 PM »

Hi Linda,

Could you please provide estimation of the evolutionary state for your friend?  This establishes the context that will tell us how all symbols in the chart will be essentially oriented within the archetypal spectrum.

Stacie
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Linda
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 17, 2009, 10:39 PM »

Hi Stacie,

I would estimate his evolutionary state or condition to be individuated.

Societal context:   white, American, democracy, middle class.

Many thanks.
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2009, 10:52 PM by Linda » Logged
adina
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 18, 2009, 08:50 AM »

Hi Linda,

Not to split hairs here, but can you narrow it down to one of the three substages withIN the Individuated? It's a long journey from the beginning to the end of the stage, and how it manifests is vastly different. 
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Rad
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 18, 2009, 10:21 AM »

Linda,
 Could you supply the birth data of this person ............ Thanks, Rad
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Linda
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 18, 2009, 03:25 PM »

Adina:  Unfortunately I cannot narrow down his evolutionary condition to a sub-state, as I don't know what they are.  My friend has Moon in Scorpio in the 12th house.  He constantly talks about the Oneness, and that all he wants to do is to Love.  Here's another quote from him:

"My ego has always been fragile.  Scorpio Moon squaring Pluto, Pluto Polarity, NN and SN tends to that nicely.  So, it has been 'easy' to seek Leo's attention.  Being unusual, or eccentric, helps attract that attention.  However the extreme shyness and fear of rejection puts me in an inescapable box.   How do I know if I'm pushing forward, or taking the traditional SN 'easy way out'?

"So Aquarius aloofness, an air of indifference is 'easy' for me...but a mask for the depth of emotion I so desire.  Expansive beliefs, or mundane communication?  Big love, or ruthless, heartless indifference?  The choice that's 'easy' is apparently the 'wrong' one, if soul is to progress.  I don't want to learn indifference, or Zen 'detachment'.  I just want to love.  Then love some more.

"Jeff worked at Astrology et al...in the University district of Seattle.  I took a beginners course from him.  He was incredibly insightful, not only in class, but when he did my chart reading.  And very charismatic.  I remember writing him a personal ten-page letter after his first book came out.  It had hit me square between my Pluto/Cap eyes when I needed it most!  I just couldn't get over how right-on revealing it was!  I was living in So. California at the time, just beginning my transformational process.

"The clash with my wife over belief systems is a serious one.  It caused us to divorce after 17 years of marriage when I was first exposed to metaphysics, particularly astrology.  I came back 15 years later (transformed somewhat)  thinking I was strong enough to go along with her, that is, sacrifice my beliefs for the sake of family togetherness.  That was 11 years ago.  I find I cannot stop my spiritual pursuits tho it hurts her greatly.  In fact now I'm at a crisis point."


Rad:  His d.o.b.:  19 January 1944.  Time:  2.45 a.m.  Place:  San Diego, CA, US.

Adina and Rad, thank you, I hope the above will give a clue to his sub-state. 

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PatriciaW
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 18, 2009, 09:11 PM »

Hi... Just from what you posted in the first place, about his concern for his souls evolution makes me think he is somewhere in 3rd stage indiv...to first stage spiritual? Further, I find it interesting that he mentioned a quandry about understanding the polarity point of Pluto..and it dosn't apply to his chart as it is conj the NN. Seems he already knows....which is of course the essence of the ninth house...trusting his inner knowing!!
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Rad
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 19, 2009, 10:59 AM »

Hi Linda,
 First, there is no polarity point in this case because his Pluto is conjunct his N.Node in Leo in the 9th which means that his Soul, prior to this life, has already begun to desire and focus on a variety of philosophies, religions, and metaphysics from diverse cultures in order to understand the nature of Creation. That diversity is symbolized by his S.Node in Aquarius in his 3rd house which itself is ruled by his Uranus conjunct Mars in Gemini in his 7th House: the relativity of beliefs and ideas coming from a vast array of sources. The Uranus/Mars in Gemini are then ruled by his Mercury Retrograde in Capricorn in his 2nd House which then forms a inconjunction with that Mars/Uranus, and also inconjunct his Pluto in the 9th with the North Node. It also squares Neptune in Libra in his 11th.
  In combination this pattern correlates to his Soul instinctually rebelling against any system that proclaims and pretends to be 'the only way', the 'only' right truth. His Soul already knows that many paths lead to the same goal: he learned that prior to this life. He has already learned to rebel against anyone trying to tell him  that it's this or that truth or path. In that instinctual rebellion he then attempts to establish and assert his own authority, his own identity, his own inner relationship to himself: the 2nd house Mercury in Capricorn retrograde. That Mercury is ruled by his Saturn also in Gemini in his 8th House. Thus his Soul sets up confrontations with others who attempt to 'prove' that their truth, their religion, their ideas are the only and correct ones. This triggers his instinct to rebel and to then assert his own authority by posing very adept questions to such limited people, the nature of the questions posed of course threatening others who core sense of Soul security is rooted in their need to blind themselves to the whole truth: to shield themselves through the overlay of a specific religion or philosophy that pretends to be the 'only way'.
  With his Scorpio Moon squaring his Nodal Axis, and his Pluto, and that Moon also inconjuncting his Saturn/Mars in the 7th, relationships, he has attracted women over many lifetimes who have had a deep fear of being overpowered by life, women who have deep emotional and psychological wounds linked with abandonment caused through violations of trust. With that Moon squaring his 9th House Pluto and N.Node these kinds of women then 'compensate' for those fears and psychological dynamics by trying to create an entire reality that is defined by a religion or philosophy that pretends to be the 'only way'. The implied certainty of a religion pretending to be the 'only way' then creates that sense of psychological and emotional security within these kinds of women. So of course when those kinds of women are then presented with other ideas, other philosophies, other religions they can only feel threatened all over again, abandoned one more time by yet another partner who does not toe the line. Another 'crisis'.
  And so then these kinds of women then attempt to create 'crisis' for him: this threat, that threat, this claim, that claim about what is going to happen to him if he does not toe their line, and this can of course include the fanatical hysteria of all kinds of guilt trips emanating the dogmas of the religion that the women belongs too. With his Mercury in Capricorn squaring that Neptune in Libra in his 11th the nature of the types of 'groups' that belong to the kinds of religions that these women do, this includes wives over many lifetimes, and also has included the nature of his biological families at birth, are extreme and fanatical in what they 'believe'. And the guilt trips that come from them towards anyone who deviates from these religious dogmas are also extreme and fanatical. A perfect example of this would be Mormonism.
  Within these dynamics , and because of them, he then creates life after life in which her marriage partner has no real idea of who he actually is, can not give to him what he actually needs, and can not listen to him without feeling threatened unless he parrots back what the nature of the indoctrination is as defined by the religion or philosophy of his marriage partner. So of course the question becomes why, why is he designing lives like this ?
  The answer of course is seen in that Mercury Retrograde in Capricorn in his 2nd house: self reliance, emotional and psychological self reliance. His Soul has been doing this by creating necessary 'counter-point' realities that are in opposition to his actual nature, his actual inner reality. This then has the affect of driving him in upon himself in order to learn this ongoing lesson is self-reliance. This is the kind of process that he has designed that says 'not this, not that': I am not this, I am not that, I don't believe this, and I don't believe that. Thus, what am I ? What do I believe ? And so on. In this way he arrives progressively to the knowledge of who he actually is, how the Natural God designed him, his Soul, to be.
  As this evolutionary process occurs it becomes an evolutionary imperative to finally design an entire life that circumstantially looks like what his Soul is: no variation, no deviation at all. And this includes the types of people he has in his life as friends as well as that marriage mate. And thus a mate who  understands him and loves him as he is, a mate who can then give to him what he actually needs.
  Rad
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Linda
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 19, 2009, 02:50 PM »

Rad,

Thank you for such an in-depth explanation of my friend's Pluto (soul) dynamics.  I love the way you have traced all the connections in his chart, and put them into a cohesive whole that is easy to understand.  I will pass this information onto him ... and I'm sure he will be truly delighted ... as once again EA has served him so well in his soul's journey.

He is now befriending other women, including myself, who understand the diversity of beliefs.  Some of these women are cyber-friends, and the connection with them, via thoughts and words, validates his true beliefs and the Oneness with the Universal Spirit.  Yet ultimately he needs to find his own self-reliance.  I do understand that now.

I wonder whether he will cave in to his wife's demands, or courageously reject them?  Pluto is now transiting his 2nd house (containing Mercury 8.40 deg Cap Rx, and ruled by Jupiter conjunct MC) where his values, duality system and belief systems will be subject to reformulation, expansion and change.

Thank you all for this forum.

 
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2009, 03:16 PM by Linda » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 20, 2009, 12:15 PM »

Linda,

I wonder whether he will cave in to his wife's demands, or courageously reject them?  Pluto is now transiting his 2nd house (containing Mercury 8.40 deg Cap Rx, and ruled by Jupiter conjunct MC) where his values, duality system and belief systems will be subject to reformulation, expansion and change.

***************************************************************************

 The answer to that question of course is an  unknown cause of the Natural Law of free choice. What can be said, given that his Scorpio Moon is squaring his Nodes, with the ruler of the S.Node being in his 7th, is that he and his wife have done this very dance in prior lives. It is indeed a 'skipped step' relative to his Soul's intention and evolutionary need to totally break free once and for all. And, yet, for many of the recent lifetimes he has been literally 'on the fence' in the sense of trying to live in his two worlds at the same time: one world being who his Soul actually is, and the other utterly divorced from who he actually is. As a result, to be blunt, he has created a 'karma' of duplicity. The increasing Pluto transit to his Mercury in Capricorn intention is to break free from this duality once and for all. Whether he makes that choice is anyone's guess at this point. And until he makes this choice this 'dance' will continue to come up in his next life , and the next one, etc until that choice is made.

Rad





 
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Linda
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 20, 2009, 03:31 PM »

Hi Rad,

Thanks for further insightful information which I will pass on to CS.

Here's some feedback from him:

This may be the most important piece of information I have received in lifetimes!  The 'answer' resonates at a deep level.  Pluto is squaring my progressed Sun.  At the time of our divorce, Pluto squared my natal Sun. Yes, it is my decision...to choose Soul-based authenticity, or subservience to fear of loss.  The decision could not be made without material I was not capable of obtaining alone.  Do you know the feeling, Linda, when the piece of the puzzle is found?  Not the final one, but the one that allows for the first time to glimpse the overall meaning...how all has been strung together (as with a 'silver thread')?  I've never had these things told me with such perfect symmetry.  The info went down like honey, like it was the most natural thing in the world.

Thank you once again for shedding so much light on my friend's dilemma. 

I would like to ask you about Pluto squaring my Nodal Axis, but I'll do that in another thread.  Smiley

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Linda
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 21, 2009, 06:01 PM »

Rad,

You said:  "......there is no polarity point in this case because his Pluto is conjunct his N.Node in Leo in the 9th which means that his Soul, prior to this life, has already begun to desire and focus on a variety of philosophies, religions, and metaphysics from diverse cultures in order to understand the nature of Creation."

Does this simply mean that he is meant to continue in this area, that he has further lessons in the 9th house area of life?  What about the future?  Is the future determined by looking at the North Node only?  Would the future be dependant on the choices he makes in this life?

PatriciaW,

You said:  ".....it [the polarity point] doesn't apply to his chart as it is conj the NN."

What does it mean when the polarity point does not apply in a chart?

When most others in his generation are moving toward the Pluto Polarity Point  (Aquarius + house position + NN + ruler), why does it seem like he is being left behind?  His South Node happens to be Aquarius.  (Sorry, I don't know how to pose this question another way.)

I suppose this makes him quite unique!

An explanation or any thoughts would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2009, 06:04 PM by Linda » Logged
Deva
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 22, 2009, 09:18 AM »

Hi Linda, great question! When Pluto conjuncts the NN is does indiciate that the Soul has worked towards  actualizing the evolutionary intentions symbolized by the house and sign position of the Pluto and the NN (in this case Leo/9th house) that the Soul is meant to continue in that direction in this life. That is why Pluto's polarity point does not apply in in that case. In other words, the Soul is meant to keep going in the direction symbolized by Pluto conjunct the North Node (full actualization of the evolutionary intentions decribed by Pluto/NN conjunction). If there are other planets forming aspects to the south Node then those planets will describe areas of potential stagnation and blocks towards actualizing Pluto/North Node evolutionary intentions. He is not being "left behind" in less he is not acting to develop these evolutionary intentions. Any of us can be "left behind" for a while in that context! (I mean when we go through resistance towards our essential growth needs). I am being humerous but the point is that Pluto conjunct the NN simply indicates a specific life lesson (s) that must be accomplished. The choose to cooperate or resist is his own. Yes, this person could and most likely does have a gift to give relative to Pluto in leo/9th house conjuct the NN. (very developed intuitive capacity, and natural teaching abilities for example).
Hope this helps
Deva   
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Rad
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 22, 2009, 12:12 PM »

Rad,

You said:  "......there is no polarity point in this case because his Pluto is conjunct his N.Node in Leo in the 9th which means that his Soul, prior to this life, has already begun to desire and focus on a variety of philosophies, religions, and metaphysics from diverse cultures in order to understand the nature of Creation."

Does this simply mean that he is meant to continue in this area, that he has further lessons in the 9th house area of life?  What about the future?  Is the future determined by looking at the North Node only?  Would the future be dependant on the choices he makes in this life?

PatriciaW,

You said:  ".....it [the polarity point] doesn't apply to his chart as it is conj the NN."

What does it mean when the polarity point does not apply in a chart?

When most others in his generation are moving toward the Pluto Polarity Point  (Aquarius + house position + NN + ruler), why does it seem like he is being left behind?  His South Node happens to be Aquarius.  (Sorry, I don't know how to pose this question another way.)

I suppose this makes him quite unique!

An explanation or any thoughts would be appreciated.


Hi Linda,
  In any chart that you see the Pluto conjunct the N.Node symbol it means that there is no polarity point for Pluto because the intention of the Soul is to continue it's evolutionary development as symbolized by the House and Sign of the Pluto/N.Node conjunction which has already been underway prior to the current life. And in any chart that one sees this will always mean, of course, that the opposite sign of that Pluto/N.Node conjunction has already been developed to the point of limiting the Soul's evolution if it remains focused on that alone. If so, then the Soul arrives at a place of Plutonian stagnation and non-growth.
  So when the EA astrologer sees Pluto conjunct the N.Node in any chart it means that the entire chart, the entire evolutionary intent, is be focused upon and through that house and sign of the Pluto / N.Node conjunction. That does not mean that the S.Node in such charts does not evolve: it does. But it evolves through the focus upon the house and sign of the Pluto/N.Node conjunction.
  In your friends case that means, in his individual context, his Soul evolutionary journey, as stated before, that he collected vast amounts of information from a diversity of sources relative to his underlying desire to know the truth that is responsible for the Creation itself. This is the interaction, interplay. between that S.Node in Aquarius in his 3rd House which is ruled by his Uranus/ Mars conjunction in Gemini, this of course repeats and magnifies this theme or dynamic, in the 7th House, and his 9th House Pluto/ N.Node conjunction: the search for the whole truth, the core underlying truths of Creation itself.
  What his Soul has been and is intending is to discover, FROM WITHIN HIMSELF versus other people, what those core truths and principles are: the 9th House Pluto/N.Node conjunction. This is exactly where he stands in his own evolution: the next step. And this is essential because what his Soul has been doing is collecting so many ideas and philosophies and so many different people, so many external authorities, for so many lifetimes it is as if his Soul has become almost like a library within itself because of all that collected information. This becomes ever more dramatic when the EA astrologer puts the Planetary Nodes in his Chart.
  The S.Node of Neptune in conjunct his S.Node of the Moon is his 3rd House. And the N.Node of Neptune is in Leo conjunct his Pluto/ N.Node conjunction in the 9th. All of this symbols of course square his Moon in Scorpio in the 12th. That S.Node of Neptune is ruled by his natal Neptune in Libra in the 11th. This, again, is repeating the prior life dynamics, themes, of seeking out all this information from a variety of groups, some of which have been extreme and fanatical: delusional and illusionary. With the Scorpio Moon in the 12th, itself ruled by Pluto in the 9th, and it's lower octave ruler, Mars, conjunct Uranus in Gemini in the 7th, some of the leaders or authorities within these groups have been extremely charismatic: so much so that they are able to convert people through the power of their personalities. These types need 'followers'. And there have been many lives in which your friend has indeed followed these types, with these delusional ideas pretending to be 'the truth'. He had done this alone, and his has done this in conjunction with partners that he as been with: the Mars, independence, with Uranus in his 7th, partners.
  This joining of groups in which had  these kinds of 'leaders' , the external authorities, is also seen in his chart relative to his natal Mercury in Capricorn in his 2nd house. His S.Nodes of Mercury and Venus are also conjunct that Mercury. And these are ruled by Saturn in, yes, Gemini, in his 8th House. So, in his context, you can see yet again that relative to his desires to understand the nature of truths that explain the nature of the Creation that he has subjected himself to all kinds of external authorities over a diversity of cultures and times. He in fact made himself dependent on this orientation for most of his prior lifetimes that have lead up until the most recent prior lives in which that orientation had reached an evolutionary limit which is the reason and intention of that Pluto / N.Node conjunction.
  Of course it is logical to ask the question as to why his Soul did it that way. And the answer is seen in that Scorpio Moon squaring his Nodal Axis of the Moon and Neptune. Within that his Moon also in inconjuncting his Mars/Uranus in his 7th, and Uranus is the ruler of his 4th House. What all that means is that his Soul has come through parents in which one or both , given their own evolutionary capacity, did not have the ability to understand that nature of his Soul, his unique individuality. And thus he could not be loved and given too in the ways that any child naturally needs. Quite the opposite in his case: being subjected to beliefs and values , thus judgments, that had nothing to do with him. This in turn lead to all kinds of 'displaced emotions', Uranus the ruler of his 4th house inconjuncting his Scorpio Moon, of childhood that got progressively stuffed into his sub-conscious, or individuated unconscious, as he got ever older in those lives.
  These displaced emotions from childhood , essentially the emotional needs to be loved and nurtured, operated within his unconsciousness in ways that lead to the external authorities , de facto parents, relative to his core desires to know and understand the natural truths that explain the Creation. The types of parents that he would come through in those lives had very limited understandings of life, limited value systems, and limited capacity to even love. The primary message he would get in those lives from such parents would essentially be the message of 'we will love you if'. Meaning if you do what we tell you to do, be who we want you to be, believe in what we want you to believe, etc. So then as an adult he would then join these groups with those types of leaders who needed to be followed and obeyed at all costs. And when he did so he was then given love and attention.
  As his Soul comes through lifetimes that reached an evolutionary limit, and, as it did so, he began to rebel against these very dynamics, and the circumstantial realities that they would create. He began to create a deep conflict between those dynamics and his evolutionary need, imperative, to discover his own emotional security from within himself: the Scorpio Moon squaring the Nodal Axis of the Moon and Neptune, the inconjuncts from it to the Uranus/Mars itself. And that very evolutionary need created at the same time for him to discover, from within himself, the truths that explain the nature of the Creation. They go together: this is his Moon squaring his N.Node and Pluto in the 9th. This is seen again via his natal Mercury, now retrograde, conjunct his S.Nodes of Venus and Mercury in his 2nd house: the evolutionary need for self-reliance by rebelling against and throwing off not only external authorities who say 'follow me', but also all the ideas, information, and philosophies that have nothing to do with the actual and natural truth that explains the nature of the Creation.
  His S.Node of Mars is conjunct his Venus in Sagittarius in his 1st house, and that is ruled by his Jupiter in Leo, also retrograde in his 10th house. His N.Node of Mars is in Aries, in the 5th House. And, yes, that N.Node of Mars inconjuncts his Scorpio Moon in his 12th. Here, in these symbols, you can see once again the core intention of his Pluto in Leo conjunct his N.Node in the 9th. Look at the repeating themes in these symbols. These symbols all mean the same thing: to break from from external dependencies for all the reasons that we have discussed, and to move towards a life that is defined by self reliance, inner security, inner authority, and an entire life, the circumstances of, that reflect who he naturally is as God made him to be. To become a group of one if necessary. And it means to arrive at committing to one metaphysical system, one philosophy, one cosmology that serves as a consistent anchor of integration and understanding for life itself: Pluto conjunct the N.Node in the 9th. This is essential in order to counteract the existing 'library' of all kinds of information , ideas, philosophies, etc in his head that he has collected over many lives now. That existing library can thus create great confusion and doubt about the nature of the Creation in the first place because of all the competing points of view and the perspectives that they lead too.
  Not that by arriving at the one philosophy that reflects who he truly is would then be presented to anyone else as the 'only way', but the way that works for him given where he is in evolutionary terms. The very nature of the philosophy or way of understanding the nature of the Creation for him would, of itself, equal the 'relativity' of truth in the sense that they are many paths that lead to the same goal: God.
  All this right now is critically important for him as the transiting Nodal axis of the Moon is  now reversed relative to his natal nodal axis. The transiting S.Node right now is conjunct his N.Node, and the N.Node transit in conjunct his S.Node. And, of course, both are square his natal Moon is Scorpio. The Pluto transit, his Soul, is coming up on his Mercury, and the S.Nodes of Venus and Mercury. In essence his past is meeting  his future in these symbols. It comes to a head. And the choices he now makes can be some of the most critical choices for this life. He either, once and for all, throws off the existing duplicity of his life, trying to maintain both of these realities at the same time, or he doesn't.
« Last Edit: Mar 22, 2009, 12:29 PM by Rad » Logged
Kristin
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 22, 2009, 02:47 PM »

Hi Rad,

Wow..Astrology always reflects reality perfectly. Linda's friend has clearly reached this critical gate and the cosmic climate now with those transiting nodes and transiting Pluto in place to help him break vicious cycles of repeating themes. He has been given this great gift of insight, Pluto style from the EA board and there he sits with Pluto on his NN in the 9th. Also here comes Pluto about to contact his Mercury, downloads of info for his Soul. It's all lining up for him.

Kristin
« Last Edit: Mar 22, 2009, 02:51 PM by Kristin » Logged
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