Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Sun as South node ruler Squaring Pluto/south node conjunction  (Read 4366 times)
Bradley J
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 295


« on: Feb 19, 2010, 10:21 PM »

Hi All,
I went back again and read how the sun squaring the nodes does not indicate skipped steps, but could if the lessons are not integrated.
What about when the the south node is in leo conjunct pluto and the sun is squaring from scorpio?

I am also wondering if this sun square the nodes(as south node ruler here) suggests previous efforts to develop the north node?

Many thanks,
Bradley
Logged

Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 22752


« Reply #1 on: Feb 20, 2010, 10:07 AM »

HI Bradley,

Hi All,
I went back again and read how the sun squaring the nodes does not indicate skipped steps, but could if the lessons are not integrated.
What about when the the south node is in leo conjunct pluto and the sun is squaring from scorpio?

***************************************************************************

     First, we must remember the three evolutionary/karmic possiblities with Pluto conjunct the S.Node. One is that the Soul is in a condition of totally reliving prior life dynamics in this life because of an absolute resistance, prior choices, to acting upon the evolutionary intentions and necessities prior to the current life. Two is a situation wherein the Soul has totally actualized those prior intentions in such a way as to developed unique abilities and capacities that are being brought forwards into the current life in order to benefit others because of those abilities and capacities and, three is a common condition in which elements of both the first two conditions exist.

     With the Sun in Scorpio, ruled by that Pluto, and squaring the Nodes, and Pluto conjunct the South Node, it means that there has been a prior resistance to fully developing the evolutionary intentions that are sybmolized in the House that the Pluto conjunct the S.Node is in, the aspects to that Node and Pluto by other planets, which of course now includes the House that the Scorpio Sun is in. Aspects to this Sun also fill in the whole picture. The current life intention is to fully recover those skipped steps so that the evolution of the Soul can proceed without being tripped up by those skipped steps which have the affect of undermining the Soul's efforts to proceed into it's future. The typical manifestation of that is feeling 'blocked' by circumstances that of course mirror the inner dynamics that create those circumstances.


***************************************************************************

I am also wondering if this sun square the nodes(as south node ruler here) suggests previous efforts to develop the north node?

***************************************************************************

Yes but it has been undermined, not allowed to be fully developed, because of the dynamics above.




  Rad
Logged
Bradley J
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 295


« Reply #2 on: Feb 20, 2010, 11:53 PM »

This is very helpful.
Classic timing with the last "practice chart assignment", the pluto/s.node is in the 8th and there is a planetary skipped step in tight square from the 5th.

Thanks again,
Bradley
Logged

Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #3 on: Mar 04, 2010, 11:35 PM »

Hi Rad,

As I understand it then the Sun squaring the S.Node doesn't represent skipped steps as such, only by the fact that it is one of the planets aspecting (even if it does happen to be square) the Pluto/S.Node conjunction. However being a square does in itself indicate resistance (being a stressful aspect).

I have a chart of a someone who has been seriously abused a lot in this life with a signature similar to the one Bradley has given, but much more reinforced. Rather than describe it I'll just post it below. (Pluto is only 45 minutes away from the 2nd house cusp. It includes outside the wheel some asteroids, and the north and south nodes of some of the planets).

With the Pluto/S.Node conjunction being part of a bigger stellium it seems to me that there has probably been a massive resistance in past lives, especially with the Sun squaring most of it too. They are in Consensus probably early to mid 2nd substage, although I don't know them well enough to be sure of that finetuning.

They are very defensive, and anxious, and protective from all the abuse they've suffered and my sense is in a state of perpetual emotional shock (PTSD).

I would be grateful if you could comment on whether the Sun squaring the stellium in this case indicates anything more than what you have described it meaning in the example Bradley was using. Thank you.

Upasika

« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2010, 04:18 AM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 22752


« Reply #4 on: Mar 05, 2010, 09:06 AM »

Hi Upasika,

     It does not indicate anything more than the answer to Bradley. You can see of course that one of the core purposes for the current life is to access the reasons, the causes, that have lead to this Soul's need to create abuse to itself. It is those causes that correlate to the observed resistance that you speak about.

  Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #5 on: Mar 08, 2010, 07:42 AM »

Hi Rad,

So, to confirm I’ve got it right … when a stellium containing Pluto conjuncts the S.Node , and a planet conjuncts the N.Node, and the Sun squares all of these things (as in the example chart), it still doesn’t represent skipped steps.

When Pluto and/or other planets conjunct the S.Node, the issues described by the house and sign Pluto and the S.Node are in (with additional info from the house and sign of the planetary ruler of the S.Node) are either being relived, fruited or a mixture of both. If the PP of Pluto and the N.Node area have been blocked from the individual in the current life then a relive situation is most likely. This would be further confirmed if there were stressful aspects to Pluto. If there is something special about the PP of Pluto and the N.Node area then a fruition situation is likely, with non-stressful aspects to Pluto further confirming this. And if there are both situations operative in the individual’s life it will be a mixed condition.

When Pluto itself is conjunct the S.Node, and the individual’s condition, if determined by the above, is one of reliving those issues represented, it indicates there has been intense resistance to those issues in previous lives. It’s highly likely that in recent previous lives, if not the immediate past life, Pluto was square the moon’s Nodes, representing in that life that a situation had developed where steps had already been skipped relating to the houses and signs that Pluto, the moon’s nodes and Pluto’s PP were in. And with Pluto conjunct the S.Node in a relive condition in the current life the indications are that those skipped steps that were highlighted in the previous life, when Pluto was squaring the nodes, were not resolved back then, probably due to a high degree of resistance to doing whatever was necessary to resolve the skipped steps.

With Pluto included in a stellium of 4 planets conjuncting the S.Node, a large part of the individual’s life is going to revolve around the past life egocentric structure represented by the house and sign the S.Node is in, regardless of whether it is a relive, fruiting or mixed condition – and, now along with the usual S.Node ruler, all those planets will also be representing issues to do with the past; and release from having to relive/fruit the issues relating to the material of the past life egocentric structure, now massively energised by 4-5 planets (depending on whether the S.Node ruler is in or out of the stellium) will not happen until the 2nd Saturn Return.

In this case, with a planet conjuncting the N.Node (asteroid Chiron - the healer/accelerator) there is an indication that some work has started in very recent past lives if not the immediate past life, to address the issues involved, via this planet (Chiron). Yet because of the block to being released from having to relive issues related to the past life egocentric structure, the energies of this planet (being conjunct the N.Node) may also not be readily available to the individual until the 2nd Saturn Return, or close to that time.

As well, with the Sun squaring all of these planets and the Nodes, the purpose in this lifetime is to turn and face all of these S.Node and S.Node ruler house/sign issues headlong, which creates an intense focus on the issues. The situation is already intense, because of a) Pluto conjuncting the S.Node, and b) so much energy in it from the other planets also conjuncting the S.Node. But with the Sun (the main purpose for the life and the energy for integrating the Soul’s underlying intentions) squaring all of it, the intensity would possibly be overwhelming.

While the Sun doesn’t in itself represent skipped steps, when squaring a Pluto/S.Node conjunction it will in fact indirectly be implicated in the resistance that the Soul has had in previous lives to implement it’s evolutionary intentions. This is because the planets aspecting the S.Node and Pluto, and the house and sign those planets are in, are all factors of the prior resistance of the Soul to fully developing it’s intentions. And since the resistance of a Pluto/S.Node conjunction in a relive condition indicates that prior to this life there most likely were skipped steps, the Sun, being in aspect to Pluto and the S.Node will give some information about what those skipped steps may have been.

Is this correct Rad? … or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

And another question that comes to mind here is when, as in the example chart, Pluto is 45 mins before a house cusp and is conjuncting the S.Node a few (less than 2 in this case) degrees past the house cusp into the next house, would we regard Pluto as being in the next house where the S.Node is, for purposes of interpretation?  

And also, when Pluto is conjunct the S.Node (or the N.Node for that matter too) do we take into account whether it’s a balsamic or new conjunction? And if we do, do we use the actual motion of Pluto and the S.Node at the time of the chart in determining which is the base anchor point, or is it always Pluto that is the base anchor point and the moon’s node is either applying to or separating from Pluto? Also would the normal “balsamic” and “new” meanings apply as they normally do between any two points when Pluto and a moon’s node are the points conjuncting?

********

All of the above is pretty well directly related to the topic (Sun squaring a Pluto/S.Node conjunction). However, a mutual friend suggested to the person whose chart this is (that I’ve been using as an example), that they ask if I would read their chart from the EA perspective. As I mentioned above they (a woman) have been through a lot of serious abuse in this life so I looked at the chart more closely to try and discover what the causes for that would have been. I feel to try as much as possible to help this person as I understand they are now reaching out for help, and that they are really hoping that I will be able to give them some, and are coming soon.

So I’ll outline what I’ve seen so far about the extended situation in the chart, and if it’s alright with you, if some of these things are not right would you mind correcting me? And hopefully your responses to my interpretation would be of general interest as a learning situation for others as well. Of course if it’s not appropriate, then I totally understand, and would remove this whole next bit.

………..

With the Soul’s intentions in this life, to relive/fruit the issues represented by the sign and house(s) of the whole Pluto/S.Node stellium and the S.Node ruler, and planets aspecting all these (which includes the Sun), the first thing that is apparent is that the stellium is in Virgo, which would represent a hugely familiar (S.Node/Pluto conjunction) capacity to create crisis as a way of dealing with situations, and also inevitably some deeply masochistic tendencies would be likely (Virgo). As well the fact that Uranus is conjunct the S.Node and Pluto, indicates the likelihood of trauma in recent past lives, with prolonged crises in past lives being part of the trauma.

Uranus sesquiquadrating both Venus and the Descendant, and Venus also squaring the Descendant (Thor’s Hammer aspect pattern), and the Descendant being in Aquarius indicates that trauma has resulted from clashes with (possibly religious) authorities – Uranus conj Jupiter conj S.Node, and Venus conjunct Saturn in 9th - and/or relationships with dominant violent males (Venus conjunct Saturn; S.Node ruler Mercury in 10th conj Midheaven, opposite Mars). The clashes with religious authorities are something this Soul has been experiencing for a great deal of lifetimes from a long way back in this Soul’s past (Venus conjunct Pluto S.Node ruler - Saturn - in 9th, and Saturn S.Node in Capricorn).

The issue behind the clashes or being dominated by violent powerful males has at the core been one of matriarchal values against patriarchal values probably played out via the religious sphere of the time, where the individual’s religious/spiritual views were perceived as a threat to male religious leaders: N.Node in Pisces and the moon’s N/Node ruler, Neptune in Scorpio (matriarchy) in the 3rd (views/opinions) being quincunx Saturn (Pluto S.Node ruler) in the 9th, and Venus conjunct that Saturn. The reactions by those religious authorities (Saturn in 9th) towards the individual was violent (Mars, ruling the 9th house, conjunct Neptune and opposite Moon S,Node ruler - Mercury).  

The alignment of the individual to matriarchal values and way of being has been very strong (Neptune in Scorpio sextile S.Node/Jupiter/Uranus in the 2nd (values, nature, survival instincts), and thus the individual would have been perceived as powerful, visible or vocal enough (Moon S.Node ruler – Mercury (voice) – in 10th) to be a threat to the status quo. Various other aspects of this individual’s makeup also would have acted as inner agents of matriarchal dissent against the religious authorities of the time (Juno conjunct Pallas in 5th, Aries on 9th house cusp, Mars in Sag ruling the 9th house). And underlying all this at a deep Soul level, would have been a future looking intention of uniting all people under a common and caring humanitarian banner where religious corruption didn’t exist (Pluto N.Node and Sat N.Node in Cancer in 11th).  

Consequently, from the religious authorities’ point of view, the individual would have been needed to be shut down. Quite how this was done I cannot see (I would need help to determine this), but that it happened appears inevitable, one because of the need for it to happen would have built up to a very high degree (as outlined above), and two, because the effects of something like that having happened are strewn all over the chart.

Whatever happened, has resulted in extreme guilt in the soul (Pluto/S.Node stellium in Virgo). The crushing of the individual’s soul and consequent deep wounding of the sense of self via the underhanded means of others (Chiron in Aries in 8th) that happened when they were shut down would have led to a deeply introspective state over a long period of time that resulted in a deep sense of conditioned guilt permeating the soul. This guilt, and the ongoing memories of the trauma of the past (Uranus conj S.Node conj Pluto) would have forced the soul to keep itself in subservient (Virgo) and withdrawn positions in life (Pluto conj 2nd and S.Node in 2nd), and in an attempt to atone for what it perceived to itself as “terrible sins” that it had done that incurred such wrath from the religious leaders. It would have put itself in situations where it was abused (Virgo), probably sexually (S.Node in Virgo in 2nd, Chiron in 8th), and violently (Pluto conjunct the Moon, and square the Sun). This soul may well have become stuck in this way of living, life after life, in perpetual atonement mode, which led to the current life chart with Pluto conjunct the S.Node, both squaring the Sun indicating a high degree of focus on resolving, or at least making some headway with, the situation in this life.  

With Pluto in the 1st, almost combust the 2nd house cusp, the most recent intention of the soul was to become independent and self reliant as a way of healing (Pluto in 1st in Virgo, Jupiter and Uranus conjunct S.Node (in 2nd) both opposite Chiron which is conjunct the N.Node), which they would have done via intense self analysis (Virgo stellium) and identifying the resources they needed to be self-sufficient (S.Node in 2nd), and starting again from the bottom up to learn how to get ahead in society (S.Node ruler, Mercury, in Gemini in 10th). In doing this they would be in constant fear of saying the wrong thing (Pluto conjunct Moon, Moon square Mercury) and would put an inordinate amount of investment in getting things right by consensus standards (Saturn sesquiquadrate Moon/Pluto conjunction) for fear of reprisals (the Pluto/S.Node/Uranus conjunction square the Sun).

In this life, the person will be still living with deep memories of trauma in the soul (Uranus conjunct S.Node conjunct Pluto, Sun in 11th square Pluto), which will be triggered by almost everybody they come into contact in their adult life (Aquarius on the Descendent, and Sun and Uranus sesquiquadrate the Desc, Moon and Pluto quincunxing it, and Venus and Neptune – Moon N.Node ruler- squaring it). As well they will be frightened to use their feminine intelligence in a freely creative way for fear of invoking more trauma (Pallas in 5th squaring Uranus, Jupiter and the S.Node, and opposing the Sun and squaring Chiron).

The intention in this life is to reconnect with people who predominantly have matriarchal and/or spiritual values (Pluto PP in 7th almost combust 8th house cusp, in Pisces, N.Node in Pisces trining it’s ruler, Neptune in 3rd). However, much as the individual may feel this, the Pluto/S.Node conjunction dictates that there is much from the past to be relived so that it can be healed through therapy, self analysis and incremental self awareness (Pluto/S.Node etc. stellium in Virgo squaring the Sun, Sun squaring Chiron), and the self that was crushed and then hidden from view needs to be found again (Sun square Uranus), and the intuition needs to be unlocked (Sun square Jupiter). This will largely happen via various women in society (Pluto conjunct Moon, Ceres retrograde in 6th, Sun in Cancer in 11th) that the individual trusts.

Other faculties and energies from the past that also have to be relived but probably in the nature of fruition, are the strong feminine energies of the individual (Pluto trine Venus, Pluto conjunct Moon). And in the right environment (Venus in Taurus in 9th) with the right people (Moon in Virgo in 1st) the individual may relate (Venus) with a strong sense of inner (Moon) stability (both in earth) flowing from a deep attunement to nourishing and loving connections (Venus trine Moon trine Juno – grand earth trine).

It will not be easy to break the inertia and resistance to facing all the above issues that this soul has developed, but there are signs of determination indicating that in this life good progress may be possible. The intention to face the issues is relatively new, and this life is one where progress will be made indirectly (Mars in crescent phase to Pluto, quintile). However with Mars retrograde in Sagittarius, there is a strong desire to look at the desires the individual is conscious of, and only pursue those that will directly benefit the individual, and try to have some fun along the way. Jupiter and Uranus are in a new phase conjunction to Pluto, indicating a brand new start to finding truth and individuality, with the focus firmly on the future rather than the past. Ceres is retrograde in Aquarius, indicating that finding nourishment on the individual’s own terms is now the rule, and anyone not fitting in with that will be rejected.  

And with Mercury, the S.Node ruler, in Gemini in the 10th, sextile Chiron in 8th, trine Uranus in 2nd, trine Ceres in 6th and trine the Descendent, the individual clearly will seek out the information that they need to assist in healing their masochistic patterns, from people who really will be able to help them with these needs.

**********

I hope this has been OK to put in here, and that I haven’t got way off on a tangent with the thread. I did find it interesting in the end how the Sun squaring the Pluto/S.Node conjunction was actually implicated in a quite a few ways with the whole past situation, even if indirectly, as well as being a necessary agent in the soul’s current options for dealing with it all. Hopefully I haven’t gone to far off right track with my interpretation. And thank you very much Rad for your continuing and untiring encouragement, inspiration and guidance.

Upasika
« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2010, 08:02 AM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 22752


« Reply #6 on: Mar 09, 2010, 09:43 AM »

HI Upasika,

 First, I need you to double check your impression of this individuals evolutionary stage of development. If, indeed, this person is in the Second Stage of the Consensus State, as you have indicated, then much of your analysis would not apply. Your analysis would correlate, relative to the symbols in the chart, to someone who was in the 2nd Individuated State or beyond. Also, please double check the birth time because of the closeness of some of the symbols to the house cusps, i.e. Pluto, Mars, etc.

 When I hear back from you on these things I will respond. If you confirm, through interaction and observation of the individual, a 2nd Stage Consensus state then I would encourage you to reinterpret your analysis to reflect that condition.

 Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #7 on: Mar 09, 2010, 06:39 PM »

Hi Rad,

Thanks for getting back, and helping with the chart. The birth time accuracy is something I had also queried, saying it's possible for a baby to be born exactly on the half hour but is unusual, and it's quite likely this is a "rounded off time" and that the birth may have been a bit before or after 10.30. And they re-checked with the mother and the answer came back that it was exactly 10.30. So that's what I have to work with.

I have had more contact with them and tried to further confirm my assessment of their evolutionary stage. There is more to them than initially meets the eye, they are carrying heavy trauma and that was masking their actual stage. I now feel they are 1st individuated ... the accompanying camouflage effect had also mislead me. So how might that impact on my analysis? If it's still not aligned, could you briefly indicate where I've got it the most wrong, as a place to start the rethink from?

thanks, Upasika
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 2010, 07:12 PM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 22752


« Reply #8 on: Mar 10, 2010, 11:26 AM »

Hi Upasika,

 Well, first, I doubt that the time is correct. How would the mother know for sure unless she was staring at a clock or watch at the exact minute of birth ? Most mothers aren't doing that at the particular moment. Most rely on the recorded time as observed by someone else. And typically when it's someone else they notice the time as some point after the actual birth. If I were to do this chart I would be putting that Mars/Neptune in the 4th at minimum.

  And, again, the analysis that you wrote would not correlate to even a Soul in the 1st Stage Individuated because there is no active challenging of external authority in the way you have put it within your analysis. Also, would like to know how, via your observations, they could go from 2nd Stage Consensus and then leap all the way to the 1st Individuated Stage ? And when you keep saying 'they' relative to the trauma overlay who is the 'they'.

  Also, what types of traumas have OCCURRED IN THIS LIFE TO DATE ?

  Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #9 on: Mar 15, 2010, 01:02 AM »

Hi Rad,

I've been tied up for a few days so it's taken a while to get back to you. I understand what you mean by the birth time, most mother's aren't focussed on that and many birth times are a bit suspicious. I did stress the importance of allowing for a period of time over which the birth could have happened if she wasn't exactly sure, but the answer was that it was very very close to 10.30. As you say, we could assume it was maybe a little bit later than that, but if anything that would move the house cusps anti clockwise so Mars and Neptune would be more into the 3rd house rather than into the 4th (which would only be the case if we moved the birth time to be a bit earlier). So not quite sure what your thinking is there?

I thought you might think it a bit odd I jumped from 2nd stage consensus to 1st individuated, as it is. Basically I made my assessment much too soon, from a couple of relatively short conversations I had had on the phone with her without realising that at those times she was in a situation where she was in a consensus environment and didn't feel free to be herself, so was censoring her replies to me, so much so that they were quite distorted.

But after that I had a much better conversation with her in a situation where she wasn't inhibited and it quickly became clear she was keen to find out more about herself and particularly why her life is the way it is, and that she hoped there were answers to this from a system such as astrology. She has no interest in society or in being successful by it's standards. Also she has experienced so much abuse that she is a) very wary of giving away too much about herself unless she knows them well and b) doesn't like discussing it because it is so highly painful to do so. She is being helped by other professionals to process and heal this trauma with specific therapeutic methods, and just wants to hear more about her lessons for this life from astrology.

I realise now that when interpreting her chart I may have been intuitively aware at some level that she was individuated, even though mentally I had assessed her as consensus, and was interpreting accordlingly without realising that. But also may have been coming a bit from my own own bias too, so that's something for me to be aware of in other cases (I havnt read charts for many consensus stage people). But I feel much more confident now that she is 1st stage individuated.

When using "they" I was actually referring to her, so apologies for the confusion. I know very little about what trauma she has endured in this life (for reasons above) except that it involves "severe abuse" of some kind, and that it has happened over an extended period of her life. I don't know the particular details of it, she doesn't want the specifics of it to be something dealt with by me, as it's being handled by others. So I'm not going to find out.

Its clear to me that just to have an astrology reading with someone she doesn't know well is for her a courageous step in itself. So this is what I have to work with.

It's maybe possible that if she wasn't so highly traumatised she probably might be more actively challenging external authority, but her confidence, self esteem and sense of safety have been very damaged by the abuse she's experienced so just simple survival and therapy have been the major focus for a long time. However it feels as if she carries an inner defiance towards anyone she doesn't know, which is perhaps a kind of misplaced "challenge" she is putting forth, although this could just as well be a reaction to fear. So hard to tell. But assuming now that she is 1st individuated then I can see my analysis is off the mark, so would have to be reworked for someone who was questioning internally rather than actively challenging externally.

I don't know if this is enough information to work with Rad, and if it isn't we could just leave it, but would be interested in any further thoughts you might have.

Thanks very much for the help and guidance.

Upasika
« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2010, 01:14 AM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 22752


« Reply #10 on: Mar 15, 2010, 02:50 PM »

Hi Upasika,

 First, the birth time would have to no more off than four minutes to place that Mars in the 4th. The reason I see this Mars in the 4th is because of the nature of the traumas that have occurred over many lifetimes. To me, all of them are rooted in family dynamics which later on got replayed in adult relationships due to the displacement of emotions from those childhood dynamics. Of course the cause has been an accumulation of guilt and subsequent need to atone for that guilt. In combination these lead to the Soul creating traumas, and the crisis associated with them. The lessons involve for her to objectify the inner causes that have lead to these traumas: self knowledge. Within that lesson to resolve how to bring the responsible dynamics to closure, and then, from there, creating the life conditions that are supportive of her ongoing need to heal from those dynamics, and the reality they created. So, at first, it is imperative that she inwardly identify the causes of the guilt that she carries which are responsible for the traumas.

  Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #11 on: Apr 11, 2010, 09:38 PM »

Hi Rad,

Been super busy the last few weeks so its taken time to get back to you. Thanks for what you've said in your previous post, I followed it up and managed to find out a little bit more info, although its not much.

What's interesting is she has reiterated now several times that her essential concern is that she doesn't want to come back and have another life like this, and therefore wants to know her lessons. To me that's the Sun squaring the Nodes demonstrated as being "an intense focus on the evolutionary requirements of the lifetime", even if it doesn't represent actual skipped steps. It also confirms to me that she's 1st stage individual as she genuinely means this - she senses quite keenly that this is a possibility, and not in an intellectual way, but out of awareness of her suffering and what that possibly imples (and I don't think a consensus type person would seriously entertain the notion of past (and future) lives ... would they?

Exactly as you suspected, the traumas in this life are mainly family based, involving specifically an angry mother, and also a sibling. So by moving the birth time earlier by 5 minutes we would have Pluto in the 2nd and Mars in the 4th, leaving Neptune in the 3rd (given that a sibling was involved in the trauma). Would that make sense to you?

Also I'm wondering what factors in the chart indicated the nature of the traumas were rooted in family dynamics?
As far as I can see these might be ...

Pluto (soul) conj Moon (mother), both in Virgo (crisis, sadism/masochism)
Sun (the person) in Cancer (family) in 11th (trauma)
Moon (ego) square Mercury (deductive, logical ordering of phenomena) in Gemini (siblings, duality)
Saturn (Plu S.Node ruler) sesquiquadrate (humiliation, resistance and blockage from social environment) Moon (mother)
Sun quincunx (crisis, sadism/masochism) Neptune (deceit, disillusionment) in 3rd (early environmental experience & education)
Mars in 4th (home) => angry mother, which is opp S.Node ruler (Mercury - communication), quincunx (crisis, inadequacy) Sun in Cancer, quincunx Saturn (Plu S.Node ruler), conj Neptune in 3rd (siblings) and sextile Uranus (trauma) in Virgo (crisis, sadism/masochism)
Mercury (ruler of the Moon, Pluto & S.Node) in 10th (father/authority) square Moon, opp Mars in 4th, and trining back to Uranus which is conj Moon.

... would these be all the correct indicators in the chart of family dynamics being at the root of the traumas?

thank you,
Upasika
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2010, 09:43 PM by Upasika » Logged
Rad
Moderator
Most Active Member
*****
Posts: 22752


« Reply #12 on: Apr 12, 2010, 10:43 AM »

Hi Upasika,

" Exactly as you suspected, the traumas in this life are mainly family based, involving specifically an angry mother, and also a sibling. So by moving the birth time earlier by 5 minutes we would have Pluto in the 2nd and Mars in the 4th, leaving Neptune in the 3rd (given that a sibling was involved in the trauma). Would that make sense to you"

Yes..............

Yes to all the astro signatures that you have identified. Of course, the next step from an EA point of view, is to determine the why of what she has created. This is part of the necessary objectification process for her so that none of this get repeated again: the Sun in the 11th/Cancer, squaring the Nodes.

Rad
Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #13 on: Apr 20, 2010, 04:49 AM »

Hi Rad,

Thank you for confirming that. I've now changed the chart time, and redone my interpretation of it. I'd be very appreciative if you could see if my analysis is more correct now, and if I've missed out anything important. In particular I don't know if I've identified all the causes of guilt, or even rightly identified the ones I have seen.

I would really like to be able to help this person via the gift of EA. While this chart does have the Sun squaring Pluto/South node (aligning with the thread's topic), I've posted much more here than that, which I hope is OK. To try and keep it relevant for everyone else I've included references for all of my interpretations, hopefully it can be a learning post for others interested too.

Thank you very much for your time and guidance, I value it so much.

Upasika





Beginning 1st stage individuated, female, middle class western society
Pluto conj SNode 2nd in Virgo, ruler Mercury in 10th in Gemini, NNode in 8th in Pisces, ruler Neptune in 3rd in Scorpio


This person has come into this life with a strong and fundamental survival instinct that is of a particularly entrenched kind. For many lives now at a soul level she has withdrawn into the core of herself as a reaction to life, and the challenges she has faced (Pluto, SNode: both in 2nd). As such she will have identified with her essence in a very intense way, yet paradoxically she will go through cycles where she feels extremely empty and adrift from her centre (Virgo stellium). This situation has arisen from repeated resistance over many lives to actualising her soul intentions (Pluto conj SNode), which have been to identify her core values, establish self sufficiency and self reliance, and to purify and humble herself (Pluto, SNode in 2nd in Virgo). The resistance is further shown by the fact that Pluto is conj Moon, Jupiter and Uranus, and square the Sun. As a result she will recreate many life situations related to the past so that the underlying dynamics of this resistance are experienced again, providing the opportunity to actualise rather than resist these evolutionary requirements, and then move on to new intentions. She will therefore be reliving many of the underlying fears and challenges she has previously experienced and hopefully making new choices that affect the prior intentions mentioned above. Along with this, her ability to withdraw into herself and identify with her essence will also offer her resources to help deal with these relived challenges (Venus, natural ruler of 2nd, trining Pluto), and she has developed the ability to see options (Mercury in Gemini – ruler of Virgo stellium).

This soul has endured a great deal of suffering via family dynamics in its past. One of the primary challenges she has faced in the past has been to do with her mother, who she would have had close relationships with in previous lives on an ongoing basis (SNode ruler - Mercury - square Moon (mother), Moon conj Pluto). One likely scenario these challenges would have stemmed from would have been the authoritarian way in which her mother related to her (SNode ruler - Mercury - in 10th square Moon). Her mother herself is, and would have been an independent person (Moon in 1st) who, while good at heart (Moon trine Venus), conflicted with the authorities in her society and/or the authority of her husband (Moon sesquiquadrate Saturn) and felt life to be restrictive. Her mother’s husbands may have been quite detached from the home, living stoically in a philosophical world of their own (Saturn in 9th in Taurus quincunx Mars in Sag in 4th). In past family situations the mother would have taken out the resulting frustrations on her as a child, with violent displays of anger (Moon square Mercury, Mercury opp Mars in 4th). She would have reacted to this by retreating into her shell to hide (Mars quintile Pluto), figuring this was the best way of surviving (2nd).

As well, in past lives she would have been in rebellion against her fathers, and rejected their positions as head of the family (Sun in Cancer square Pluto), possibly because they were too weak to protect her from her mother’s dominating outbursts, and/or they were not present enough (Sun in 11th), while her fathers’ reactions to this have tended to squash her individuality (Sun square Uranus) pushing her further into isolation (2nd).

These dynamics in her primary relationships with her parents - particularly her mother, over quite a few lives, would have induced an ongoing level of crisis in the soul (Virgo stellium) that in itself was traumatic, which she dealt with by constant withdrawal into herself. A sense of fundamental inadequacy (Virgo) would have starting building up within her as a result of her true needs not being met, and having no idea how to how to get them met, as every time she spoke up (Mercury – ruler of Virgo stellium – trine Uranus) she would have been silenced by her mother (Mercury square Moon and opp Mars in 4th). Her relationship with her mother in recent past lives would have been one of deep familiarity, having it’s roots in even more distant past lives (Moon sesquiquadrate Saturn – Pluto SNode ruler), with a deep pattern of this relationship being one where the mother blocked her development socially which became humiliating to her (sesquiquadrate) and stifled her ability to think for herself in a wholistic way (Sat in 9th). She would have experienced a cyclical sense of inadequacy and crisis in her relationship to her mother (Saturn -  Pluto SNode ruler - quincunx Mars in 4th, and sesquiquadrate Moon), as well as a deep underlying rage would have progressively built towards her mother, which she would have felt guilty about, and therefore suppressed (Mars retro in 4th opp Mercury – Virgo stellium ruler).

The overall effect of all these situations and circumstances above, resulting in lifetimes of her not having her core needs being met and not being seen for who she really was, would have started to build a fundamental compressed layer of conditioned guilt (Virgo) that she was somehow “wrong” just in who she was (2nd). As a result a need to atone for this guilt would also have started to develop in her, and with it masochistic tendencies (Virgo stellium).

As a need to escape from the compression she would have been feeling at a soul level she would have reached out to her siblings (Jupiter and Uranus conj Pluto, sextile Neptune in 3rd, and Uranus trine Mercury in Gemini). Here she could engage her mind (3rd house, Gemini) as a relief from the emotional trauma of her challenges with her parents (Pluto conj Moon, square Sun and sesquiquadrate Saturn). This family based trauma at some point would have started to affect her conscious self (Uranus square Sun in Cancer in 11th) and her relationships with others (Aquarius on Desc, Pluto square Sun in 11th). By creating a fantasy world with her siblings (Neptune in 3rd) she could access a different side of herself, one that wanted adventure, freedom and philosophical expansion (Mars in Sag), and mysterious suspense (Neptune in Scorpio) and a fusion of the two (Neptune conj Mars) provided the perfect escape. However, because of the masochistic tendencies and inferiority complex that had developed in her things may well have not gone as imagined (Neptune), and she may have got in situations where she was taken advantage of and/or bullied and dominated and/or deceived, and even incest may even have happened (Sun square Pluto, Jupiter and Uranus, quincunx Neptune and Mars retro - which is quincunx Saturn in Taurus and opp Mercury - and Neptune is sesquiquadrate Chiron in Aries in 8th).

As a result she would have become disillusioned and confused as to what observable reality in itself was (Neptune in 3rd), resulting in a further sense of guilt, inadequacy, crisis and trauma creating a psychological wounding of her sense of self - at which point she would have started to disassociate from herself (Neptune quincunx Sun in 11th and sesquiquadrate Chiron in Aries in 8th, Chiron square Sun – her whole family life now being a source of pain and guilt. Atonement for this deep permeating sense of guilt would now also take place in her relationships (Jupiter and Uranus in Virgo sesquiquadrate Desc) via masochistic behaviour in her relating (Venus square Desc), and towards herself (SNode sesquiquadrate Venus, Pluto trine Venus), As well, she would project onto others displaced emotions, including her suppressed anger and rage (Mars retro in 4th quincunx Sun in 11th, and her insecurity and emotional neediness (Pluto conj Moon). Also others would project onto her (Desc in Aquarius quincunx Moon which is conjunct Pluto and SNode, all in Virgo in 2nd).

Now her whole world would have largely become a highly traumatic and unsafe place with no way out. The only form of escape left would have been via further disassociation from her true needs and psychological centre, even from her body itself (Sun square 2nd house stellium except Moon). This would manifest over time as a fracturing of her basic sense of herself at a subconscious level, and combined with all the guilt, trauma and masochistic urges, and projections to and from people, she could have became, to varying degrees, abnormally dysfunctional in her daily behaviour. This would have driven her desperate need for survival at all costs to an even deeper level – hence the massive concentration of energies in the 2nd house that she has come into this life with.

Crisis has been a feature for this soul for a great many lives (Pluto SNode ruler - Saturn – having it’s SNode in the 6th). Saturn’s SNode also trines the (lunar) SNode, indicating the possibility of a long history of laziness regarding using crises to analyse problems and instigate improvements to situations, and also a deep tendency to handle problems by retreating into herself (Saturn SNode trines Jupiter and Uranus, both of which are conjunct Pluto in 2nd), as well as escaping into fantasy and denial that everything was not OK (Saturn SNode sextile Neptune in 3rd, ruled by Pluto). For many lives she may have harboured a sense of deep loss of her soul/spiritual roots (Neptune in Scorpio quincunx Sun) which may have caused her to think about spiritual issues and themes quite a lot as these would also have represented an avenue of escape from her everyday mundane reality, and this in turn may have started her reflecting on herself in a deeper way (Neptune retro in 3rd pointing to Pluto) about the nature of her relationship to herself, her crises and trauma, and her limitations (2nd).

That would have continued in recent lives to thinking a great deal about herself and how to deal with her pain and suffering and how to deal with violence in the family (Mars in 4th), and looking for creative solutions (Mercury - Virgo stellium including Pluto and SNode, ruler - in the 10th in Gemini in an old waning trine to Uranus, and sextile Chiron in Aries in 8th and Chiron is opp Uranus. Also Uranus sextiles Mars in 4th and Mercury opposes Mars in 4th creating a mystic rectangle). She would have started questioning things about the society in which she lived (Mercury in 10th), and with Uranus in a new conjunction to Jupiter started on the process of individuation. However, since she had very likely become psychologically fractured this may not have been fully integrated (Sun square the Virgo stellium – Moon/Plu/SNode/Jup/Ura – and Saturn – ruler of 6th – sesquiquadrate both Moon and Pluto). Yet on one level at least (mental) she will have broken away from the prevailing consensus reality, bringing her into the 1st individuated stage.  

Another endeavour she will have started in very recent lifetimes is becoming more emotionally independent. This will have arisen from the sheer necessity of having been forced into her 2nd house isolation so much through all the rejection she will have suffered over many lives, that there would have been few people who had access to her emotionally for her to be nourished by them, leaving her only herself time and time again. Although progress with this may have been slow, it would have been helping her get a bit on top of her instinctive emotional reactions to her own feelings and to external circumstances, and begin to transform how she identified and related with herself (Moon balsamic conj Pluto). This process would be a culmination of many lives of emotional trauma, and through it, she would have started to glimpse new beliefs (Jupiter and Uranus new conj to Pluto) and as this process has unfolded she would have sensed that she needed to expand her own ideas about life (Jupiter balsamic conj to Uranus) and give to others in society when she could in practical ways (Uranus sesquiquadrate Venus in 9th, which is conj Saturn in Taurus).

In both these ways she would have been making the first mental and emotional steps away from feeling a complete victim (Virgo stellium, Sun quincunx Neptune).

... continued below ....





« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2010, 03:23 PM by Upasika » Logged
Upasika
Very Active Member
**
Posts: 357


« Reply #14 on: Apr 20, 2010, 04:51 AM »

CURRENT LIFE

However she will unconsciously recreate throughout this current lifetime identical situations to recent past lives involving crisis and trauma, which to a great extent will be based on past family dynamics (Sun in 11th square Pluto/SNode/Uranus stellium in Virgo, with Uranus SNode in 4th). Even though Mars is not in a significant aspect to Pluto (quintile), with the Sun squaring Pluto she will definitely be working hard on her soul’s evolutionary requirements feeling that resolving her crisis ridden life is her special purpose, which she will apply her total will towards, and she will have a highly intensified daily focus on all her issues (Sun square Nodal axis), sensing at a deep level her soul situation has reached a critical level of crisis that has become consciously very difficult to live with (Virgo stellium). This special purpose she feels will be sharpened by the fact that at the core she feels her life is utterly empty and meaningless on a cyclic basis (Virgo stellium). And indeed this actual lifetime for her has been one of an incredibly intense series of crisis and trauma involving some of her family members (mother and a sibling), and her health on different levels (physical, mental), with a crippling sense of suffering (Virgo, Uranus) and limitation (2nd). Nevertheless, she is determined to do whatever she can to not have to come back and live through another life again like this one.

In this lifetime she will need to progressively analyse her life situations (Virgo), her reactions to them (Pluto conj Moon) and identify (Mercury trine Uranus) the underlying patterns to her deep rooted issues, thus increasing her self knowledge. From there she can identify improvements in her inner and outer situations she can make which are able to be implemented bit by bit over time (Virgo). This can be achieved firstly by recognising the many layers of and aspects to the compressed guilt she carries, bringing it up to consciousness. She will be riddled with conditioned guilt to do with not pleasing her mother, being a difficult child well into adulthood, and often being dysfunctional. Undoubtedly she will need help via various forms of therapy to help her with this process.

She will have many difficult emotional and possibly traumatic experiences with her mother, who again will be dominating and controlling, imposing a rigid standard of behaviour on her and delivering emotional blows to her whenever she fails to live up to these standards and her demands (Pluto conj Moon, Mars in 4th quincunx Saturn). And again this will cause displaced and unmet emotional needs, with the consequent projection of these needs onto others in her family and others in her life in general. She will then react with anger when others do not meet her needs and confrontations will be the result, or she may withhold her emotions from others, cutting off from them. Either way she will be thrown back on herself. What she will need to do is focus on her emotional dynamics and try to witness and understand her instinctive emotional responses, to be aware of her emotions on a momentary basis, and to recognise her motivations and intentions, and where she is coming from when she reacts emotionally. She will need plenty of time on her own where she feels safe, so she can see what the real and deep underlying feelings are that trigger her reactions, and then process those resulting emotions by simply staying fully present to them until they pass (as feelings and emotions do).

In bringing this awareness to her feelings and emotions automatically she will not be identifying with them, they will be separate to her and she will be able to see and watch them as something different to herself. And once the identification is cut they will lose their unconscious power over her behaviour. She will also be able to absorb them back into her sense of self. In these ways she will gradually be becoming more emotionally independent, and also emotionally whole. However, she will have to be careful she doesn’t forever lock herself away when in this kind of process, as otherwise she may shut down, implode, and lose all perspective completely – time facing the world will also be an important part of becoming emotionally mature. To that end she would benefit from participating in any group therapies that she may be drawn to where she trusted the people involved. However she may be difficult to work with in this context, due to her needing everything to be “provable” (Pluto conj Moon in 2nd).

And all of this would inevitably start showing her areas where she felt guilt, primarily towards her mother, but also herself, and possibly other people in her life.

As well with Plu/SNode/Jupiter/Uranus in 2nd house, Pluto conj Moon and Venus in Taurus there will be sexual issues. She will have a very strong sexual nature and may find this very disturbing if she feels guilty about sexual self reliance – masturbation – as the build-up of emotional and sexual energy needing physical release will be intense at times. Problems that could occur here are over-eating as a compensation of unmet emotional and physical needs, and with Jupiter in the 2nd house she could easily develop a weight problem if this was the case. The ideal solution to this is to merge and unite with others on an emotional basis (8th house), and seek a meaningful sexual relationship with another within this context. However, due to her overall psychological situation this may not always work out. Fears of truly reaching out emotionally to another (8th house) may be too great a step out from the well (2nd house). Another possibility is that of sexual relations with a sibling, a reliving of the past in this regard (Nep in Scorpio in 3rd conj Mars in 4th), again an escape route that might initially seem attractive (Jupiter in 2nd ruler of Mars) but could spiral out of control if the sibling became manipulative or exploitive and the situation turned violent (Sun square Pluto, Pluto conj Uranus, Sun quincunx Nep and Mars, Mars opp Mercury in Gemini). If such a scenario happened trauma and crisis would be reactivated.
Relationships will also be a difficult area of life for her. With Aquarius on the Desc, Pluto trine Venus and Venus square Desc, Sun/Jup/Uranus sesquiquadrate Desc, and Moon quincunx Desc nearly everyone she comes into contact with in anything more than a passing manner will probably trigger unresolved trauma in her to a greater or lesser extent. Facing up to this will be one of her greatest challenges in this life, but also potentially an avenue of great benefit. Since she needs to objectify the guilt that is the cause for her creating trauma and crisis in her life, whenever unresolved trauma is triggered by others she will have the possibility to observe herself in these situations and via her emotions trace back to the deeper feelings underneath those emotions and via those deeper feelings trace back to original subconscious impressions and sensations (Desc quincunx Moon, Moon quintile Nep in 3rd - NNode ruler - and Neptune also trine the NNode and Chiron in 8th). At any point along this pathway a recognition of underlying guilt may manifest (Uranus sextiles Neptune and conjunct Moon via Virgo stellium). This is one way that her guilt can be objectified so she can see it, and will speed up the release of the Virgo 2nd house energies.

She will also need to find her own voice and speak up to her mother, and she will probably find support for this from her father (Mercury in Gemini in 10th square Moon, Mars pp in Gemini in 10th, Saturn conjunct Venus). Also helpful in dealing with her mother, as well as being evolutionarily necessary, will be taking some risks and breaking out of her well (2nd house stellium, Venus in Taurus) and starting to trust others enough to form relationships with them, particularly people in life she identifies that may be able to help her, yet without becoming attached to, or dependent, on them. Learning to listen to others so she can understand them objectively will help her to listen to and understand herself more objectively. This in turn will attract others to her who can point out her limited view of reality in a non threatening way, helping her to expand her values and view of her personal situations and life in general, and understand her motivations, all of which will allow the necessary growth to occur and a progressive release from her inwardly compressed reality, and allow her to feel more powerful (PPP, NNode and Chiron in 8th, Venus pp in Scorpio). As this process unfolds she will also learn to see her mother more objectively as well, and with her new found strength gradually stop behaving from a masochistic basis. This will also progressively lead to the healing of her fragmented psyche and the beginning of a wholeness she will have longed for for lifetimes (Moon ruler of 12th house, Chiron SNode in 9th, Neptune SNode in 6th) which is also her current life intention (NNode in Pisces, NNode ruler – Neptune – sextile Pluto and trine NNode and Chiron and opp Mercury – SNode ruler, Chiron in Aries).
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2010, 03:33 PM by Upasika » Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Video