Pluto's Nodes

[Louie]

I have been trying to incorporate the planetary nodes into my understanding of the Pluto paradigm and would like to open up a discussion on Pluto's planetary nodes. It would seem everyone walking on the planet today would have Pluto's nodes in Cancer(NN) and Capricorn(SN). This would seem to place an evolutionary emphasis on where these two signs fall in the natal chart as well as the placement of Saturn and the moon. It is understood that this must be related back to the natal placement of Pluto, the lunar nodes and the nodal rulers.

In addition, the transiting lunar nodes are in Capricorn(NN) and Cancer(SN) as well as Pluto transiting full time in Capricorn. This signature would seem to reemphasize the archetypes of Cancer and Capricorn in each individual's solar return chart for this year. Later this year Pluto will move into a conjunction with the transiting north node in Capricorn, which will be a significant signature in certain solar return charts.

Am I wrong to assume that these signatures would carry additional weight for people born with the archetypes of Cancer and Capricorn as a part of the natal Pluto Paradigm....eg, Pluto, the lunar nodes or the nodal rulers in the 4th or 10th houses? It would seem that something is trying to drive home a general point individually as well as collectively. This point would seem to revolve around issues of emotional security and authority? I would appreciate other peoples opinions on what these signatures might symbolize

[ari moshe]

Hi Louie,

There is a thread about this that includes basic q and a's about the planetary nodes as well as a couple chart examples.
https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,163.0.html

Beyond that, I gratefully look forward to further ea learning.
Ari Moshe

[Louie]

Ari:

    Thank you for the link to the previous discussion on the planetary nodes......I had gone through that link a few times before but found it beneficial to amplify my question.

     I find it interesting that everyone living today has Pluto's nodes in Cancer and Capricorn. It is my natural inclination when confronted with such a signature to ask why that may be given the nature of the times that we live in. With pluto transiting through the sign of Capricorn, it would lead me to believe that external events happening in the would out there would more directly influence how this signature is played out in the individual charts. The lunar nodes transiting through the signs of Capricorn and Cancer would also seem to have a direct correlation to Pluto and its nodes?

     The solar return charts for the next 12 years will have Pluto in Capricorn with its polarity point in Cancer. This would seem to reinforce the energy movement from Pluto's south node in Capricorn to its north node in Cancer? I was hoping to open up some dialogue on the current transits of Pluto and the lunar nodes and how, if at all, this relates back to the natal placement of Pluto and its nodes. Hopefully this makes a little more sense than my original post.......

Louie

[Steve]

Hi Louie

Your original "question" was well worded and seemed to contain within it the answers to the questions you were asking.

To start some discussion, Jeffrey said many times that the South Node of Pluto in Cap related back to the time period when the transition from matriarchy to patriarchy was already underway, and thus all Souls on Earth today have a natural connection to those times, or at least the energies of those times, even if they were not in human form on Earth at that time. 

Something interesting is that in 2018 transiting Pluto will be conjunct its own south node of Pluto.  We could consider what that means in terms of opening up the current version of the lessons from those times.

Keeping in mind Cancer/Cap relate to gender role assignment, and the upcoming period we are entering is associated with the beginning of the return of the Goddess.  All that will be backdrop to the solar return charts you referred to.   Clearly the male-dominated present orientation is leading to the environmental devastation of the planet.  Uranus enters Taurus in 2018/2019, and survival will necessitate radical change.  Also, here in USA, we are having a US Pluto return in 2021/2022 at 27 Cap.  Cap squares Libra (extremes) and we will have pushed everything to the maximum extremes, being forced to change from no other options remaining.

[Elen]

A general comment, based on Steve's post:

My own sense is that more and more people's eyes will open up to the insanity of the way things are right now.  And what I mean by that is, rather than it being just a kind of intellectual understanding, and then continuing on with the way things are, people will choose to say no to it through the choices they make in their daily lives.  They will do this because they will be ABLE to make those choices because the alternative infrastructures will be more readily accessible.  How severe the violence gets on the way, I don't know.  Also, I suspect more and more communities will empower themselves and I think this will have a huge impact over time.

Is hierarchy a Saturn archetype?  My feeling is that the communities will begin to have an impact because this whole idea of artificial hierarchy - class/wealth - based on insecurity, will begin to be seen for what it is -violence inducing.

One final comment:  I read a book some time ago called Saharasia (by James DeMeo).  It was DeMeo's doctoral thesis.  He argues that violence as we know it today originated with the formation of deserts on the earth around 4,000 BCE.  Not much time, so I'll have to be brief.  The upshot is that the psychology of the human psyche, especially the male psyche changed in response to the conditions of scarcity.  This resulted in the cultures of violence that we now live with.  Perhaps we now have the chance to heal ourselves deeply in this regard.

These are just some of my thoughts.

[Elen]

PS - re: my above post.  Not meaning to blame men.  Just stating what I recall of DeMeo's thesis.  Obviously, the practice of violence is not limited to men.  And it is clear that there are many men who practice peace.

Ellen

[Lucius]

Interesting - especially in connection to manmade deserts, ie, agriculture.  I also find that a fair amount of patriarchal heirarchal type thinking arises in conjunction with agriculture based cultures.  Hunter/gatherers, even today, maintain a balance within natural law.

[Gonzalo]

Hi Louie and all ...

I have been thinking on your question during these days ... my few thoughts are as follows:

Around year 375 a.D. Pluto SN moved again into Capricorn.  Around year 600 Pluto NN moved into Cancer. Thus, the nodes of Pluto have been in Capricorn/Cancer for most of the Pisces Age beginning on 100 a.D. At the time when Jesus was crucified Neptune was in Capricorn. When the SN of Pluto moved into Capricorn, Neptune was in Pisces and Uranus was in Virgo. One of the fundamental lessons Jesus came to teach was to worship God within, versus an external God. I think that Jesus was crucified with the approval and/or request of the very same people in Jerusalem who had received him with acclaim five days before. These people were dependent on the idea of an external savior, and an external authority because they were unable to assume responsibility for their own actions. They needed to follow someone, though, they would not follow anybody beyond where they already were. Thus, they went one step forward, and then two steps back. This search for an external "father ", an external God and the idea of hierarchy was set in motion with patriarchy. It meant that people preferred to obey an external authority instead of listening to their own Soul, and thus, to avoid their own responsibility. Orphanhood leading to insecurity, insecurity leading to submission to an external order. Given this background, whether the SN or the NN of the Moon are in Cancer, the lesson of internal security remains outstanding. This is especially true at a time when the Pisces Age is coming to a conclusion. "Mothering" leading to responsibility, maturation grounded on nurturing.

Look forward to reading what others post on this topic.

God Bless,

Gonzalo 

[Gonzalo]

... also, when Jesus was crucified the Nodes of Neptune were in Capricorn/Cancer ... NN at 18° Cancer  and SN at 22° Capricorn ...

[Elen]

Interesting - especially in connection to manmade deserts, ie, agriculture.  I also find that a fair amount of patriarchal heirarchal type thinking arises in conjunction with agriculture based cultures.  Hunter/gatherers, even today, maintain a balance within natural law.

Hi Lucius,

Yes, if I remember correctly, Riane Eisler, commenting on DeMeo's work, speculated that perhaps it was the practice of agriculture that created the formation of deserts.  I haven't looked into much of this in a number of years, so I don't know if there's been more work/theorizing/hypothesizing about it...

Ellen

[Louie]

It was interesting to track the current cycle of Saturn and Pluto back to its original conjunction on November 8th, 1982 at 27 and change of Libra. The nodes at that time were at 5'28" Cancer(NN) and Capricorn(SN). This coincides with Reagan's decision to support the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union giving rise to Osama bin Laden.

First waxing square between these two happens Jan 01, 1994 with Saturn at 27'06" of Aquarius and Pluto at 27'06" of Scorpio. Formed in 1994, the Taliban began with only a few followers, mostly religious students who fought with the Mujahideen in the war against the Soviets and who were schooled in Islamic seminaries (madrasahs) in Pakistan. These students, or seekers, as they are referred to in the documents, wanted to rid Afghanistan of the instability, violence, and warlordism that had been plaguing the country since the defeat and withdrawal of the Soviets in 1989.

Full oppostion between these two happens on Aug 05, 2001 with Saturn at 12'37" of Gemini and Pluto at 12'37" of Sagittarius. Transiting nodal axis at 5'49" Cancer(NN) and Capricorn(SN). Much has been said about the different planetary alignments on 9/11 so I will leave this as another one to ponder but this was our ticket back into Afghanistan.

Waning square of Jan 31st coincides with president O'bama's decision to commit significant troops to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. Saturn at 4'21" Libra and Pluto at 4'21"Capricorn with the nodes at 21'02" Capricorn(NN) and south node at 21'02 Cancer(SN).

[Louie]

The next conjunction of Saturn and Pluto will happen on Jan. 12, 2020 at 22'46" of Capricorn. At that time the nodes will once again be in Cancer(NN) and Capricorn(SN) @ 8'24"....quite a cosmic dance!

Something tells me the current cycle we are in is more based on relationships being that the original conjunction was in Libra. With a waning square between these two I think many current relationships will come under the microscope and either change or be ended. An example of this is the relationship of the United States and Israel, which in my opinion is in a VERY unhealthy balance of unquestioning support of one for the other.......part of this problem falls on how our own government forms relationships with large corporate interests and lobby groups (AIPAC in particular).

Afghanistan is just another example of propping up corrupt warlords and drug dealers as government officials........when will we ever learn these types of "relationships" never work and usaully end in disaster.

On a more personal scale, forming relationships that promote emotional independence and personal responsibility while contributing to each other's continued evolutionary growth. This applies to our careers as well as our own personal relationships......who are we working for and is this "relationship" contributing to society in positive way? Are we just collecting a paycheck to buy more material things?

[Elen]

The next conjunction of Saturn and Pluto will happen on Jan. 12, 2020 at 22'46" of Capricorn. At that time the nodes will once again be in Cancer(NN) and Capricorn(SN) @ 8'24"....quite a cosmic dance!

Something tells me the current cycle we are in is more based on relationships being that the original conjunction was in Libra. With a waning square between these two I think many current relationships will come under the microscope and either change or be ended. An example of this is the relationship of the United States and Israel, which in my opinion is in a VERY unhealthy balance of unquestioning support of one for the other.......part of this problem falls on how our own government forms relationships with large corporate interests and lobby groups (AIPAC in particular).

Afghanistan is just another example of propping up corrupt warlords and drug dealers as government officials........when will we ever learn these types of "relationships" never work and usaully end in disaster.

On a more personal scale, forming relationships that promote emotional independence and personal responsibility while contributing to each other's continued evolutionary growth. This applies to our careers as well as our own personal relationships......who are we working for and is this "relationship" contributing to society in positive way? Are we just collecting a paycheck to buy more material things?

Hi Louie,

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Could our relationship to mother earth also fall into this category?

Ellen

[Louie]

Hello Ellen!

     I think this definitely applies to the relationship between humans and Mother Earth.......the movie AVATAR is an excellent example of this idea slowly permeating into the consciousness. Watching that movie was a spiritual experience for me personally and James Cameron deserves a special award for being able to beautifully convey everything that's important in life!

     The real earth work may be coming with the next conjunction in Capricorn in 2020? We are already seeing some of the results of Pluto in an earth sign with earthquakes......I am wondering as Uranus moves out of Pisces and into a fire sign whether Volcanos will start to flare more often?

[Wendy]

Thanks Louie for your post.  I have been reading along without commenting, though I am deeply interested in the Cancer/Capricorn axis, as many of us are, now especially.

Gonzalopan, I really enjoyed reading your post, I have looked for this data but didn't have the astrological data or resources to find it.  

Do you know or have ideas of when Jesus was born or Mary Magdalane?

Around year 375 a.D. Pluto SN moved again into Capricorn.  Around year 600 Pluto NN moved into Cancer. Thus, the nodes of Pluto have been in Capricorn/Cancer for most of the Pisces Age beginning on 100 a.D.

At the time when Jesus was crucified Neptune was in Capricorn. When the SN of Pluto moved into Capricorn, Neptune was in Pisces and Uranus was in Virgo.

Help me understand this if you will:  neptune (higher love) in capricorn (structure, format) when Jesus died--when did the SN move into Capricorn? afterwards or before when he began his teachings?

One of the fundamental lessons Jesus came to teach was to worship God within, versus an external God.

I think that Jesus was crucified with the approval and/or request of the very same people in Jerusalem who had received him with acclaim five days before. These people were dependent on the idea of an external savior, and an external authority because they were

unable to assume responsibility for their own actions. They needed to follow someone, though, they would not follow anybody beyond where they already were. Thus, they went one step forward, and then two steps back.

This search for an external "father ", an external God and the idea of hierarchy was set in motion with patriarchy.

Which is when the Capricorn archetype became an externalized function linked to a masculine planet rather than feminine?

It meant that people preferred to obey an external authority instead of listening to their own Soul, and thus, to avoid their own responsibility.

Orphanhood leading to insecurity, insecurity leading to submission to an external order.

Given this background, whether the SN or the NN of the Moon are in Cancer, the lesson of internal security remains outstanding. This is especially true at a time when the Pisces Age is coming to a conclusion. "Mothering" leading to responsibility, maturation grounded on nurturing.

Look forward to reading what others post on this topic.

God Bless,

Gonzalo  

Thank you.