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PRACTICE CHARTS

Started by Rad, Mar 24, 2009, 04:26 PM

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Elen

#390
Quote from: Rad on Feb 26, 2010, 12:54 PM
Hi Dhyana,

To answer your question about the awareness of his own inner blocks, his emotional withholding and distancing. At his point of evolution, last part of 1st Stage individuated, that awareness will come through the feedback of his partners: Venus in the 7th, squaring the 5th House S.Node.

Hi Rad,
I am wondering what this actually LOOKS like in a 1st stage individuated PROGRESSING towards (FULLY ALIENATED) 2nd stage.  I have a hard time picturing how it plays out other than negatively...?  Does one have to look at the chart as a blueprint of the Soul through ALL the stages, ie, so you understand the ultimate positive/constructive potential but, given the stage understand the more negative limitations of the current lifetime?  Does this make sense?  (Same ? with the rest of the post).

Ellen


Later on in the EA stages, 3rd Stage Individuated and beyond, that awareness could occur within the Soul itself. The function of having his Venus in Aqarius, the 11th House N.Node, is to create relationships with others who have the affect of helping him 'objectify' himself in total: his psychology and the reasons for it. And the intention within this, Pluto's 8th House polarity, the ongoing S.Node in Scorpio in the 5th, N.Node in the 11th, is to completly metamorphose from his existing state of being. To recreate himself anew. The external sources who help him objectify his existing psychological reality, and the reasons for it, are created by this Soul for these purposes.

I have read through your analysis and will get back to you tomorrow on it. For now what you are identifying is generally correct.

Rad

Elen

#391
Quote from: Rad on Feb 28, 2010, 12:13 PM
****************************************************************************

   The core issue is symbolized in the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd, squaring the 5th House S.Node in Scorpio: his sexuality is very intense yet is FOCUSED ON HIMSELF. This is a Soul who has been focused on the symbol of the penis, the phallus, as all powerful. A SOURCE OF CREATION: 5th House. Thus, a Soul who used himself, his own body as a vehicle of stability, self reliance, and developing a deep inner relationship to itself.


>Hi Rad,

I'm wanting to check my understanding of the logic here.  Is this because he has just emerged from the Consensus State, and thus has identified (his Soul has identified) with the patriarchy - with the power of it, and wanting it - which would reinforce this narcissistic orientation at the consensus level?  And he would not even recognize the effects that this narcissism is having on others and on himself in a negative way...?

Ellen

PS Thanks, Dhyana, for your posts.

   

Rad

Hi Ellen,

"I am wondering what this actually LOOKS like in a 1st stage individuated PROGRESSING towards (FULLY ALIENATED) 2nd stage.  I have a hard time picturing how it plays out other than negatively...?  Does one have to look at the chart as a blueprint of the Soul through ALL the stages, ie, so you understand the ultimate positive/constructive potential but, given the stage understand the more negative limitations of the current lifetime?  Does this make sense?  (Same ? with the rest of the post)."

****************************************************************************

First, we need to resist judging any given Soul's evolutionary process as negative or positive. It should simply be seen and understood as it naturally is, it's necessity, and the reasons for that necessity. The way it 'looks like' in this paradigm is that the Soul will attract to itself key people who provide the 'feedback' by way of conversations that help this Soul unlock who he actually is, and why. These types of conversations will be born out through various kinds of conflict he will have with the intimate others in his life. The evolutionary stage of development simply correlates to where any given Soul is it's evolutionary journey relative to it's own realizations about it's individual nature, and it's relationship to that which has created it in the first place: The Source Of All Things.

Rad


Rad

Hi Ellen,

"The core issue is symbolized in the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd, squaring the 5th House S.Node in Scorpio: his sexuality is very intense yet is FOCUSED ON HIMSELF. This is a Soul who has been focused on the symbol of the penis, the phallus, as all powerful. A SOURCE OF CREATION: 5th House. Thus, a Soul who used himself, his own body as a vehicle of stability, self reliance, and developing a deep inner relationship to itself."


Hi Rad,

I'm wanting to check my understanding of the logic here.  Is this because he has just emerged from the Consensus State, and thus has identified (his Soul has identified) with the patriarchy - with the power of it, and wanting it - which would reinforce this narcissistic orientation at the consensus level?  And he would not even recognize the effects that this narcissism is having on others and on himself in a negative way...?

****************************************************************************

The logic is the astrological signature itself: the symbols we are using. It's because he is in the 1st Stage Individuated that has caused him to live an external life that appears 'normal' from consensus point of view, thus heterosexual because this is the consensus norm, yet within his Soul signature being a male orientated bisexual. The male orientation is determined because of the placement of the Nodes, and thus he perception of the power of the Phallus. The narcissism in these symbols is determined because of his evolutionary state: a state of ongoing individuated self discovery. Yes, he would be unaware of the effects of his narcissism on intimate others in his life. It is through the feedback of such partners that he would then become aware.

Rad

Rad

Hi Ellen,

A very good first effort on your part. I can see you trying to use the natural reasoning of the EA paradigm to generate your analysis. Bravo for this.

**************************************************************************

"(SN/Scorpio/5th together with the 2nd house and also, possibly, a Last Quarter aspect between Pluto/SN - is this correct that if they are in aspect, it is a Last Quarter square, ie, not a First Quarter square?)."

***************************************************************************

Yes, last quarter ................

Rad

Dhyana

#395
Hi Rad,

I am having trouble formulating anything beyond what I already have for this chart. I think there are a couple reasons for this (AND I am hoping you may pick up on any additional  reason(s) I may be stuck, and relay it to me)?

The one reason is becuase I cannot understand how you came to the issue of his bisexuality? Not the masturbation part and the focus on himself and the power of the phalac etc. (bc I re read the Pluto H2 chapter in Pluto Vol 1. and saw that dynamic clearly)  -- But the ASPECTS that show a bisexual tendency (Uranus?)?  What ASPECTS show this and why? I just have no idea what aspects would give you the understanding of the bisexual part (other than Uranus, but what else..how do the other aspects play into it --both the stage of evolution and Venus?). And even more than that, what would be the souls intention for this bisexual-ness -- why would this be useful for this INDIVIDUAL identity from a soul perspective? Is the acknowledgement and honesty about it what the soul longs for or the actual acting out the tendency?  You say that the stage of his individuation would mark this (if I understood that accurately) but even after reading the stages over I still cannot figure out how you came to this.  Furthermore, I wonder if this man has any clue about his bisexuality at all or is it the next stage or even next life where he will get an actual hold of this ( in the next stage where this clue would emerge for him or in this one), --Thus I am stuck in going any further with the chart.

I did pick up that something about his work will be key, and I am trying to develop that, but I feel too stuck with the other thing to proceed? In otherwords, I think that until I am clearer about the sexuality thing I will not be able to intuit into the work thing bc of any subtle connection that may be inherent in that dynamic.

Another reason I cannot seem to go further is bc I a only aware of some of his aspects. Namely the ones you first gave us.  I don't know if others more skilled in EA are able to place all the other aspects respectively based on the initial aspects you gave us -- I simply  am not skilled enough in astrology or EA to figure all those respective placements/aspects (I just use the astro software for that based on birth data, u know?). All I can deduct from the initial info is house placement and ascendant (and even that may be a tiny bit off if this man has anything intercepted?  I also am not even sure if I need to know any of them at this step of the chart analysis? Sorry that these questions are so basic.

Looking for your feedback.

Thank you

Dhyana

Elen

#396
Quote from: Rad on Mar 03, 2010, 11:24 AM
Hi Ellen,

"I am wondering what this actually LOOKS like in a 1st stage individuated PROGRESSING towards (FULLY ALIENATED) 2nd stage.  I have a hard time picturing how it plays out other than negatively...?  Does one have to look at the chart as a blueprint of the Soul through ALL the stages, ie, so you understand the ultimate positive/constructive potential but, given the stage understand the more negative limitations of the current lifetime?  Does this make sense?  (Same ? with the rest of the post)."

****************************************************************************

First, we need to resist judging any given Soul's evolutionary process as negative or positive. It should simply be seen and understood as it naturally is, it's necessity, and the reasons for that necessity.

>Hi Rad,

Yes, and thanks.  This is an ongoing difficulty and confusion on my part.  Through Dhyana's posts and your responses (including to me below) I am understanding now in a way I hadn't that key to the Individuated State is the need for FEEDBACK from others.  There is an evolutionary NEED to focus on self which necessitates this feedback.  This is part of the learning process.  The REBELLION of the Individuated State is not a necessary negative, but a necessary part of the evolutionary process.  Yes?  What I am trying to understand, and where my confusion comes in, is how does one make sense of, say, the Columbine shootings?  I think I have a linkage in my mind between alienation and destructive rebellion.  But you are saying that that is not necessarily the linkage, but COULD be....?  In other words, one does not by necessity have to RAGE their way through the Individuated States?

Thanks,
Ellen



The way it 'looks like' in this paradigm is that the Soul will attract to itself key people who provide the 'feedback' by way of conversations that help this Soul unlock who he actually is, and why. These types of conversations will be born out through various kinds of conflict he will have with the intimate others in his life. The evolutionary stage of development simply correlates to where any given Soul is it's evolutionary journey relative to it's own realizations about it's individual nature, and it's relationship to that which has created it in the first place: The Source Of All Things.


Rad



Elen

#397
Quote from: Rad on Mar 03, 2010, 11:43 AM
Hi Ellen,

"The core issue is symbolized in the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd, squaring the 5th House S.Node in Scorpio: his sexuality is very intense yet is FOCUSED ON HIMSELF. This is a Soul who has been focused on the symbol of the penis, the phallus, as all powerful. A SOURCE OF CREATION: 5th House. Thus, a Soul who used himself, his own body as a vehicle of stability, self reliance, and developing a deep inner relationship to itself."


Hi Rad,

I'm wanting to check my understanding of the logic here.  Is this because he has just emerged from the Consensus State, and thus has identified (his Soul has identified) with the patriarchy - with the power of it, and wanting it - which would reinforce this narcissistic orientation at the consensus level?  And he would not even recognize the effects that this narcissism is having on others and on himself in a negative way...?

****************************************************************************

The logic is the astrological signature itself: the symbols we are using. It's because he is in the 1st Stage Individuated that has caused him to live an external life that appears 'normal' from consensus point of view, thus heterosexual because this is the consensus norm, yet within his Soul signature being a male orientated bisexual.

>OK.  No problem.  I get this.


The male orientation is determined because of the placement of the Nodes,

Here I'm lost.  Is it because 5th house/Leo/Sun archetype is masculine?


and thus he perception of the power of the Phallus.

This makes sense to me in terms of Leo.


The narcissism in these symbols is determined because of his evolutionary state: a state of ongoing individuated self discovery.
And also because it is Leo in particular, yes?

Yes, he would be unaware of the effects of his narcissism on intimate others in his life. It is through the feedback of such partners that he would then become aware.


Rad

PS, Thanks so much for your positive feedback on my first effort...

ari moshe

#398
Hi Rad,

Before I get started, I want to clarify a contradiction in your reference to planetary aspects. Once this is cleared, I'll post a chart with the appropriate aspects.

statement 1 (reply 384):
QuoteYes, Uranus and Pluto are sextile the S.Node, trine the North. The Uranus/Pluto conjunction is New. The Venus is inconjunct Uranus, and through extension, Pluto.

Rad

statement 2 (reply 400):
QuoteThe core issue is symbolized in the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd, squaring the 5th House S.Node in Scorpio

Thank you.

Rad

Hi Dhyana,

Quote from: DhyanaDec2 on Mar 03, 2010, 02:01 PM
Hi Rad,

I am having trouble formulating anything beyond what I already have for this chart. I think there are a couple reasons for this (AND I am hoping you may pick up on any additional  reason(s) I may be stuck, and relay it to me)?

The one reason is becuase I cannot understand how you came to the issue of his bisexuality? Not the masturbation part and the focus on himself and the power of the phalac etc. (bc I re read the Pluto H2 chapter in Pluto Vol 1. and saw that dynamic clearly)  -- But the ASPECTS that show a bisexual tendency (Uranus?)?  What ASPECTS show this and why? I just have no idea what aspects would give you the understanding of the bisexual part (other than Uranus, but what else..how do the other aspects play into it --both the stage of evolution and Venus?).

****************************************************************************


Beyond the Uranus conjunction to Pluto, which is the key, there are repeating signatures that correlate to his bisexuality. These symbols are N.Node in Taurus in the 11th House..i.e. a natural Uranus House, and that is ruled by Venus in Aquarius in the 7th, which then forms the inconjunct aspect to his Uranus and Pluto. The Venus of course is also squaring his S.Node in Scorpio, and that N.Node in the 11th. All of these symbols correlate, in the end, to his inner relationship to himself, and thus others. And, on a sexual level, that inner relationship, at it's core, is about the power of the phallus that then correlates to his natural bisexuality, and the intense masturbatory orientation within himself.

************************************************************************

And even more than that, what would be the souls intention for this bisexual-ness -- why would this be useful for this INDIVIDUAL identity from a soul perspective?

*************************************************************************

What would be the intention for any Soul being bi-sexual ? As in any possible dynamic within the total range of possibilities of being human there is always reasons for whatever dynamics a Soul is orientated too for it's self knowledge. For most who are naturally bi-sexual this correlates to the totality of self knowledge by experiencing the duality of gender within itself.

*************************************************************************


Is the acknowledgement and honesty about it what the soul longs for or the actual acting out the tendency?

************************************************************************

Both are true. And this is not a  'tendency': it is core dynamic within his Soul structure, identity.

***************************************************************************

  You say that the stage of his individuation would mark this (if I understood that accurately) but even after reading the stages over I still cannot figure out how you came to this.  Furthermore, I wonder if this man has any clue about his bisexuality at all or is it the next stage or even next life where he will get an actual hold of this ( in the next stage where this clue would emerge for him or in this one), --Thus I am stuck in going any further with the chart.

***************************************************************************

The 1st Stage individuation correlates to beginning to throw off all external conditioning that has nothing to do with who any Soul naturally is as created by God. The clue will come through the feedback that the he receives from other people, and most specifically his intimate other in a female form. This goes right back to one of the reasons that he is emotionally and sexually distant and withholding to such female partners. And that is because of his core bisexual orientation that desires men first. In his intimate relationships with women he will typically receive the message that they need more from him than he is able to give because of this core inner orientation. This will lead, again, to such intimate partners seeking out relationships with others in order to have their own core needs met. This of course will produce the necessary emotional/ psychological shocks to him that will manifest as confrontations with these partners. In the process of these confrontations, the reasons for them, the WHY of it, the awareness of his core sexual identity will occur. This will occur either in the form of inner realization because of the compression within the Soul, S.Node in Scorpio, Pluto/Uranus in the 2nd squaring that Node, the N.Node itself in Taurus, where that compression finally releases the awareness to him, or through the types of conversations with his partner that can also lead to this awareness.

****************************************************************************

I did pick up that something about his work will be key, and I am trying to develop that, but I feel too stuck with the other thing to proceed? In otherwords, I think that until I am clearer about the sexuality thing I will not be able to intuit into the work thing bc of any subtle connection that may be inherent in that dynamic.

***************************************************************************

There are many, many other dynamics and evolutionary issues in this paradigm to understand beyond the sexual one. You don't need to get stuck here because of this.

***************************************************************************

Another reason I cannot seem to go further is bc I a only aware of some of his aspects. Namely the ones you first gave us.  I don't know if others more skilled in EA are able to place all the other aspects respectively based on the initial aspects you gave us -- I simply  am not skilled enough in astrology or EA to figure all those respective placements/aspects (I just use the astro software for that based on birth data, u know?). All I can deduct from the initial info is house placement and ascendant (and even that may be a tiny bit off if this man has anything intercepted?  I also am not even sure if I need to know any of them at this step of the chart analysis? Sorry that these questions are so basic.

****************************************************************************

You don't need to know anything else. We are simply analyzing the evolutionary dynamics in the paradigm that has been presented: and nothing more at this point.

****************************************************************************


Rad

Rad

Hi Ari,

Venus is squaring the Nodes, inconjunct Pluto/Urnaus, and the Pluto/Uranus is trining the N.Node, sextile the South.


Rad

Rad

Hi Ellen,


"The male orientation is determined because of the placement of the Nodes,

Here I'm lost.  Is it because 5th house/Leo/Sun archetype is masculine?"

***************************************************************************

Yes, as that S.Node in Scorpio in the 5th House, a natural Leo House, is ruled by his Pluto in the 2nd House .. the power of the phallus in combination that then connects to Urnaus and his bisexuality linked with the power of the phallus in other men. The inconjunct to Venus in Aquarius in the 7th, which is squaring his Nodes, correlates with his need to have relationships with both men and women.

***************************************************************************


"and thus he perception of the power of the Phallus.

This makes sense to me in terms of Leo.


The narcissism in these symbols is determined because of his evolutionary state: a state of ongoing individuated self discovery.
And also because it is Leo in particular, yes?"

**********************************************************************

yes ...............................

***********************************************************************

Rad

Elen

Hi Rad (or anyone who would like to respond who can answer my question),

I'm bringing forward a question from the previous page that was missed.  I ask it because it is an area of genuine confusion for me and I would truly appreciate clarification.

Ellen


****************************************************************************

First, we need to resist judging any given Soul's evolutionary process as negative or positive. It should simply be seen and understood as it naturally is, it's necessity, and the reasons for that necessity.

****************************************************************************
>Hi Rad,

Yes, and thanks.  This is an ongoing difficulty and confusion on my part.  Through Dhyana's posts and your responses (including to me below) I am understanding now in a way I hadn't that key to the Individuated State is the need for FEEDBACK from others.  There is an evolutionary NEED to focus on self which necessitates this feedback.  This is part of the learning process.  The REBELLION of the Individuated State is not a necessary negative, but a necessary part of the evolutionary process.  Yes? 

What I am trying to understand, and where my confusion comes in, is how does one make sense of, say, the Columbine shootings?  I think I have a linkage in my mind between alienation and destructive rebellion.  But you are saying that that is not necessarily the linkage, but COULD be....?  In other words, one does not by necessity have to RAGE their way through the Individuated States?

Thanks,
Ellen
[/
quote]
[/quote]

Dhyana

Wow Ellen, great post!  Your questions are so well said and really helpful in clarifying things for me too!
Dhyana

Rad

Hi Ellen,

"Yes, and thanks.  This is an ongoing difficulty and confusion on my part.  Through Dhyana's posts and your responses (including to me below) I am understanding now in a way I hadn't that key to the Individuated State is the need for FEEDBACK from others.  There is an evolutionary NEED to focus on self which necessitates this feedback.  This is part of the learning process.  The REBELLION of the Individuated State is not a necessary negative, but a necessary part of the evolutionary process.  Yes? "

*****************************************************************************

    The individuated state, of itself, does not NEED feedback from others in order to individuate on an ongoing basis. It is entirely possible for a Soul to begin the individuation process from within itself. On the other hand, some Souls can design lifetimes that do correlate with the need for such external feedback as in the paradigm that we are currently working with.

     Yes, rebellion generated by alienation is a hallmark, an archetype, that is the underpinning of the Individuated State. However, that rebellion does not need to be a destructive rebellion by any means.


**************************************************************************

What I am trying to understand, and where my confusion comes in, is how does one make sense of, say, the Columbine shootings?  I think I have a linkage in my mind between alienation and destructive rebellion.  But you are saying that that is not necessarily the linkage, but COULD be....?  In other words, one does not by necessity have to RAGE their way through the Individuated States?

***************************************************************************

     No, in fact, the vast majority moving through the Individuated States do not rage their way through it. For questions like the Columbine shootings: this sort of thing belongs in other threads, like the one underway concerning the Evolutionary States that Steve is answering extremely well. This thread is for practice charts, and I would like to keep it that way.      

*************************************************************************

  Rad