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Author Topic: Planets as pre-existing pattern  (Read 1098 times)
ari moshe
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« on: Apr 22, 2010, 09:40 AM »

Hello all,

As I'm preparing for this new practice chart, I've been reading through Venus/Mars in Pluto II. An old question which never felt resolved for me, is coming up again:

From page 132 of Pluto II:
"I woud like to provide a description of the general archetypal themes of Venus in its natal sign, which will correlate to the pre-existing (bold mine) pattern of inner/outer relatedness. I will also address its polarity sign, which will allow these pre-existing patterns to evolve into a new way of inwardly relating to oneself." And then each section starts of with "as a pre-existing pattern..."

It's been stated here (see "questions about the Moon" thread) that the only signatures of a chart that symbolize the past are the sn of anything, Pluto and aspects to any of those.

The wording in the book seems to imply that planets, in and of themself, represent pre-existing patterns prior to this life.

Is this the appropriate way to understand it: The past is symbolize by the sn. The present is symbolized by the planet, and the future is symoblized by the snn. HOWEVER, WE CAN ALSO read the planet as a pre-existing pattern from the past THROUGH the filter of it's sn. Which itself was actualized on an egocetnric level through the filter of the moon's south node?

(IE Venus in Leo symbolizes a pre-existing pattern of inner and outer relationship patterns. It can only be understood fully in light of the past through the filter of the sn of Venus. And that too can only be understood by looking at the south node of the Moon- as that is how the entire function of inner/outer relationships were integrated on an egocentric level by the soul.)

Thank you,
Ari
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Steve
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« Reply #1 on: Apr 22, 2010, 09:09 PM »

Hi Ari

What came to me as I read your post was this:

This present moment does not exist in and of itself.  It contains, in this moment of now, everything that has ever come in all previous moments, and the seed potential of everything that ever will be, going forth.

The Lunar South Node represents the past, the history, of the personalities a Soul has created down through time.  It IS the past.  But that past does not exist only in the past.  It is also brought into the present moment.  The present moment is conditioned by all that has come before it.  The free will that we have means we are not prisoners of that past.  Through force of will (choice) we can make new decisions that create a new present, which will lead to a different future than the one we would create if we continued making the same decisions we'd made in the past. 

That is how I would look at it.   The present life Venus is conditioned by all the past "self and other" relationship tendencies and patterns that have preceded it.   The south node of Venus represents directly the way the Venus functions were handled in the past.  The south node of the Moon represents the Soul's past personality structures and emotional habits/patterns.  Both of these are alive within the present life Venus function, subconsciously coloring it.  Yet that Venus also contains the possibility of changing the past, in the present moment (the only moment in which anything can be changed).   

The intended directions for that Venus to evolve are indicated in the North Node of Venus, the Lunar North Node ruler, the Lunar North node, and the Polarity Point of Pluto, in that order, from top to bottom.

We try to mentally separate the past and the present and the future, to see them as different things.  But in reality its all the same, and it can't be separated.  That is why EA says you work the North Node, learn new ways of doing things, then evolve your South Node function by integrating these new ways into your old ways of doing the South Node.   The end result is the entire structure, Soul and personality, evolve.

We can't really separate our internal Venus functions from our Mars functions, from our Moon functions, from our Saturn functions.  We are complex beings that have all of these inner drives, desires, motivations, orientations.  In reality they are all mixed together within us.  We use astrology to gain objectivity by assigning this function to this planet and that function to that planet, but past a certain point those are constructs, not complete reality.  In reality we are the sum total of all of them, and that includes our past and future also.
Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 23, 2010, 08:57 AM »

Thank you Steve, that was really clear.

I want to rephrase what you have said to see if I get it. The current life Venus for example, like all planets operates as an integration point for the past and the future. It is the soul, via it's capacity for free will that will choose the re-play the past or a more evolutionary path in any particular moment in time.

So we can say that a person's prior life relationship tendencies are indicated by the South node of Venus, the ruler of the lunar south node, the lunar south node, and Pluto. Each one integrated through the next...

And as you said the evolution of that Venus function is indicated by the north node of Venus, the ruler of the lunar north node, the lunar north node, and PPP.

Venus is wedged in between both of them. It exists as the integration point for both, according to one's free will- at any moment. Is my understanding accurate?

The question is still present for me: IE Venus in Leo. Does that, in and of itself have anything to do with the past? Again the question arises from the very direct wording in the Pluto II book.


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Steve
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 23, 2010, 10:13 AM »

Hi Ari

First I want to say, what I wrote last night were my thoughts, not necessarily EA as written in the Pluto books.

Venus is wedged in between both of them. It exists as the integration point for both, according to one's free will- at any moment. Is my understanding accurate?
I would say yes.

Quote
So we can say that a person's prior life relationship tendencies are indicated by the South node of Venus, the ruler of the lunar south node, the lunar south node, and Pluto. Each one integrated through the next...

The question is still present for me: IE Venus in Leo. Does that, in and of itself have anything to do with the past? Again the question arises from the very direct wording in the Pluto II book.
That is exactly why I wrote what I did last night, to answer that question.  My answer is, Venus in Leo CONTAINS the subconscious imprint of the past.  It is a symbol of the present, but the present contains the imprint of the past.  You did not spring out of nowhere fully formed. 

The direct symbols of Venus past are the ones you mentioned above.  But that same past is contained within the present life Venus, as imprint.

In a way it becomes semantics whether you want to say the present Venus has something to do with the past.  EVERYTHING has something to do with the past.  The other symbols are more directly connected to the past, but the imprint of the past is also contained within the present Venus, and every other planet too.



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Rose Marcus
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 23, 2010, 11:03 AM »

Greetings Ari, Steve, et al...

Steve has provided a great in depth answer, but let me thrown in a very simple explanation of what I believe the Pluto 2 reference was alluding to:

The issue of preexisting needs relative to Venus: Venus in reference to the second house correlates to ones survival issues. The second house is a fixed energy momentum. Inner Venus, correlating to the second house archetype, corresponds to the psychology of inner hearing.  Put this together and you have the psychology of inner hearing relative to how one is resonating inwardly with survival issues that have become fixed or rooted within ones consciousness or inner hearing. Note also that the archetype of the second house is opposed by the fixed 8th house, this sign/house polarity suggests resonating with that which is rooted or embedded in the (preexisting and evolving) psychology of the soul.

That which preexists also energizes the principle of magnetic attractions of resources – that which one has (previously) evaluated is essential to survival – at all the levels - emotional, psychological, biological, physical, material, spiritual. The planetary nodes, etc. fill in the rest of the story…

Blessings
Rose
 
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ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: Apr 27, 2010, 09:28 AM »

Hi Rose,
Bradley pointed out the "cacooning" nature of the second house and the "butterfly" nature of the 8th house. Felt that related to what you were sharing.
Just as a clarification- your not implying that only Venus exists a pre-existing pattern (ie not Mars)?

I re-read through the first half of this thread: http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,161.0.html
which addresses a similar topic to this thread.

Steve, I get what your saying- the very fact that a soul chose Venus in Leo means some sort of context must have been in place for that soul prior to this life to the inner/outer relationship patterns of Venus in Leo.

So it makes sense to me that any planet correlates to a pre-existing pattern. The sn of any planet then provides the even larger past.

I want to look at an example to see if I'm putting it together accurately:
Lets say a soul has Venus in Leo and the sn of Venus in Gemini.

Both the Leo and Gemini archetypes have been operative prior to this life. Leo is the archetype through which the deeply ingrained values of Gemini have been integrated in the past. And in this life, the same will be true- however Venus in Leo also serves as an integration point for whatever the nn of Venus is.

Is this accurate?
Thank you

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Rose Marcus
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 09:39 AM »

Hi Ari,
Yes, you are correct as you have restated/interpreted above.
Venus correlates to pre-existing (retained/rooted) needs, embedded within the soul's psychology/emotional framework. All chart symbols will reference prior histories, as is intrinsic to each..
Blessings
Rose
 
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ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 12:46 PM »

Thank you for confirming that for me Rose.
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