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Author Topic: A look at relationships - Mars/Venus  (Read 3258 times)
Willow
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« on: Mar 25, 2009, 12:49 PM »

Hi Rad etal,

I wasn't sure if I should post this on Pracitce charts or make a new topic but here might be a good practice pair.

I have a friend who appears to have a repeating trend in her relationships. She feels like this is a pattern she has had for lifetimes ( and she has with Venus squaring her nodes, Venus also ruling her SN) and she deeply wants to change this pattern. In both of her marriages the physical part started out like gang busters..lots of sex, but then gradually cooled off. In her first marriage, sex and intimacy faded after the first child. In the second marriage, the intimacy faded after about 4-5 years together. Maybe it was more the simple act of sex that faded. It doesn't feel like intimacy, true intimacy was ever there. Just surfaces.
She says she has trouble feeling love for her current husband and being intimate with him.
She is struggling with the meaning of love. She even said something like, What the heck do you base it on? How miserable you would be if they died? Then she said the only people she thinks she really loves are her two daughters and her dog and feels ashamed for admitting that.
Here is a disturbing thought she said.." I am actually more comfortable having sex with my partner if I disassociate from the personal or romantic and just do the act.- you can see that with moon/mars in the 11th but WHY is she creating this? With Venus in Cancer squaring the nodes, I realize she is attracting partners that throw her back on herself, setting up situations that do not give her what she needs. This includes the early family dynamic. With a SN in the 4th in Libra, possibly being too dependent and attached in other times. I am trying to get into the deeper aspects of chart interp and would love your feedback. How can she break out of this cycle. Obviously her depression about it is forcing her to reach out. 

Jane - june 24,1949 / 8:03am Seattle Wa  - 1st state indivuduated
Mike - july 3,1943  /  12:06pm Detroit, Michigan - riding edge of 3rd stage consensus/1st stage individuated

Relationship work is tough so thought this forum would be a good place to look at this mars/venus piece.

Any help would be so appreciated.
Peace,Willow
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2009, 01:56 PM by Willow » Logged
Stacie
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 26, 2009, 11:02 AM »

Hi Willow,

Do you know to what extent this woman is in touch with her specific individuality?  Is she living a life that supports her need for creative freedom and actualization?  Has she given herself the freedom in life to discover who she is as a unique and independent individual, and has she allowed her partners to see, know, and experience her as such? In other words, have the roles she’s played in these relationships been consistent reflections of who she feels herself to be on the inside, or has she felt any need to compromise or hide certain aspects of her nature in order to gain or sustain acceptance from the partners?   Does her current partner recognize the special qualities that make her unique, and does he express to her that these qualities are valued?  To what extent does he support her in living a life that allows her to explore life as an ongoing adventure in discovering and acting upon the sense of special destiny that she feels? 

What I’m hearing as the root in the problems you’ve described, is that her dissatisfaction arises from not really feeling ‘seen’ for the things that make her special, and that circumstances within her committed relationship may be presenting limitations in her ability to fully focus on and pursue her own life destiny.  Can you provide feedback on whether or not these things are consistent with her experience, and if not, say a little bit more about what her experience in this regard is?

Stacie
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Willow
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 26, 2009, 11:32 AM »

Hi Stacie,

Thanks for your response. This gal with her Gemini stuff has lots of ideas, many never flushed out. But she is very creative around the home, classic Cancer, and is trying to launch a new creative biz. She is into many advante garde things and is fascinated with astrology. She is trying to find herself through more alternative mediums but her creative bursts are the things that motivate her most. Because of the Gemini stuff she can be all over the place with her projects Her husband does support her, or more like she does what she wants..he is more passive in ways.. she is a take charge kind of woman - that Moon/Mars

you wrote,
"in these relationships been consistent reflections of who she feels herself to be on the inside, or has she felt any need to compromise or hide certain aspects of her nature in order to gain or sustain acceptance from the partners?"

i think the answer is no, she is removed from who she is on the inside. I do feel there is a compromising for who she is even though she is constantly creating.

The partner is sensitive and affectionate but to me they seem worlds apart.

He does support her living her life as she wishes...He has been very lazy and does not have follow through so if their finances are ever threatened because of this she totally shuts down, literally feels like she does not have any respect for him or loves him anymore, because she works so hard to bring money in.
Interestingly enough, her first husband was financially sound..zero money issues..but deep intimacy issues..this one is sensitive and affectionate but not stable financially..it feels the real issue is the same,,the lack of real depth..her attracting men that give her an exit point..ie that Moon/Mars,feels like she is running from something.

I think at this point there is more a lack of respect for him versus being in a relationship where he doesn't support her creative expression etc.

Hope this helps..

and thanks Stacie..
Willow
« Last Edit: Mar 26, 2009, 11:38 AM by Willow » Logged
Deva
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 27, 2009, 08:35 AM »

Hi Willow, this is a great topic to discuss on the message board. The question that poped into my mind because of the south Node in Libra/4th and the Venus in Cancer sqaure the nodal axis is the nature of the kind of family enviornment she grew up in? Did her mother "go through the motions" within the relationship as she feels she is doing now? Has she been given emotional freedom and suppourt in the context of actualizing herself as an independant women/ unique person. I know with Libra/4th south node displaced emotions from childhood will certianly be an issue (especially with Venus sqaure the nodes). I am wondering if her early imprint of her mother is mirroring her own behavior in adult relationships in the current moment, or if she was given messages of support and encouragement to "break the cycle."  Any info you have in the context would be great!
Thanks for posting this topic.
Deva
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Stacie
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 27, 2009, 11:21 AM »

Thanks Willow, that's good information.  I'm glad Deva asked about emotional/early parental imprinting because that's an important one to understand.  Can you also include if there was any early religious exposure, and if religion plays any role in the couple's life (either separately or together)? 

It would helpful to know a bit more about the current husband as well.  What has been his line of work in the past?  In terms of generating income, has the idea been to generate money through a preexisting line of work, or is he looking to do that now through new forms of work?  Is the idea for the husband to hold a steady paycheck type of job, or does he approach it through freelance stuff? When he IS generating income for the household, how does that impact your friend's role as a contributor to the couple's finances?..i.e., does she bring in a steady source of income regardless of the husband's working status, or is that something that becomes necessary only when the husband isn't earning money?  Does the income she generates occur exclusively through her creative ventures, or does she also get income through jobs in which she is employed by someone else?

Is there anything that's particularly noteworthy about the husband besides the current pattern of inertia and his passive disposition? 

Thanks for providinging feedback to all of these questions....this is the very important process we call observation and correlation!

Stacie
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Willow
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 28, 2009, 11:49 AM »

HI Stacie and Deva,

I will ask about some of this..we are not 'close' friends so will ask about some of this early upbringing info. I know the husband just lost his job. He was a home appraiser. She makes sporadic money on her creative projects, nothing consistent but feels limited because she claims he is relaivetley lazy and she is afraid there will not be enough funds to support some of her projects, which in my opinion could be quite lucritive, even in these times. So she fence sits even though sometimes you need to spend money to make money.
The real question is about this sexual intimacy piece.maybe it is all linked with her creatrive blocks.. fears about not having enough to follow through and being depending on someone else to make them happen..getting angry then when they drop the ball.....
I think she chose him so her soul would be forced to earn on her onw..create and earn and be the leader..NN in Aries..to look to no one for help and yet if it comes..great..
Will try and get more info..
Thanks you two..
Willow
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Willow
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 28, 2009, 01:21 PM »

Here is some info my friend..her words..more than you may want but paints a good picture

According to my mom, I was allergic to cows milk as a newborn, and my dad would not allow mom to breast feed me so almost died of dehydration.  They tried soy, that didn't work and finally, after 2 weeks, they put me on goat's milk, which worked.  Rough start.
 
My mom told a story once where as a toddler, I hid behind the front door one night and when dad came home I came out and told him that mom hit me.  Of course that made him angry at her and she was angry at me.  They got divorced when I was about 2 1/2 or 3.  My dad was what they now call a deadbeat parent - we rarely saw him and when we did, I was miserable.  One summer I got so sick I was doubled over in pain and they sent me to the hospital.  They concluded I was homesick and dad sent me home.  Mom was not happy to see me - no doubt because I ruined her summer with her lover.
 
My older brother became "the man of the house" and he and mom were totally a team and I was the third wheel, either always in the way, or something...I think I always felt there was something wrong with me and nothing was ever said or done to help me feel I was wanted.    The up side was that I had tons of freedom as a kid - almost to the point of negligence.  When I was 10 we moved from Bellevue, WA to a very rural area, and I did stuff and learned stuff that today I am very grateful for and I love to tell those stories.  Life wasn't entirely good though as I feared and hated my step-dad(s).  Remarkably, this was the first time I remember ever getting any positive attention or praise from my mom, and it was because I helped her raise my baby brothers.  I was a natural mother, which was a huge help to her.  I continued to take care of my two baby brothers when we left Washington and moved to California in 1963 - and all the way up until I got married at the age of 19 and moved out (whew, was I tired of babysitting by then).     
 
My Gramma. who I loved dearly, was very spiritual, but not religious in the sense of going to church because her life as a child in a Lutheran family had been extremely harsh (Minnesota farm; her mother "was an angel" but all 9 kids -even the girls - had to work the fields & her father beat them all).  So Gramma raised my mom & her siblings with total religious freedom and I think my Gramma just set an example by praying.  Bless her soul, she prayed on her knees at the side of her bed every night of her life.  Mom gave us no religious training whatsoever, no doubt thinking that what was good for her was good for us.  Gramma Julie gave me a bible for my 12th birthday and I still have it. 
 
I 'm not sure I ever "felt" loved by mom.  She was very critical of me and I hate to admit that I am also a very critical person, which I have had to look at many times because my kids won't tolerate it, it wreaks havok in a relationship, and it's kept my self esteem low for most of my life.  One thing I learned when I was in my 30's that totally blew me away was Gramma told me that mom always used to tell her that she thought I was special.  Actually, this pissed me off - why on earth didn't she ever tell ME that?  sheesh. 
 
One final note:  My dad was and is a very creative man - a total ass-hole - but very creative.  My mom was creative in a practical way (Virgo) and she could literally make something from nothing.  I know that this is where I got my ability to be so resourceful and creative at the same time.   Quick example:  when I was 10, mom was sewing a jumpsuit for my baby brother and I wanted to learn how to sew so she got up, told me to read the directions and I made the jumpsuit all by myself - she helped me thread the maching.  I've been sewing ever since and teaching myself to do things all my life.
I like that now when I review my childhood, a little less energy goes into resenting the adults in my life, and more energy goes into feeling good about the good stuff.

so hope this helps some..thanks again..Willow
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Stacie
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 28, 2009, 02:10 PM »

Hi Willow, thanks for that info.

One thing we can see right off the bat is that both of these souls are INDEPENDENTLY working on exposing unconscious expectations that each have in relation to intimate relationship and specifically relationship partners.  Both have a pattern of expecting their partners to measure up to some ultimate ideal/imagery of the ‘perfect partner’...expecting their partners to be defacto gods and goddesses...the root of this is primarily unconscious.  As a general pattern, both tend to become aware of their projected expectations when the partner fails to measure up to the projected ultimate ideal, and/or when the partner fails to adequately supply the needs that are being projected onto them.  When those needs go unmet, the one who is doing the projecting will have a tendency to see the partner as the source of the problem, and begin to relate to that partner through a filter of what’s wrong, what’s lacking in that partner, creating a progressive underlying void in their feelings, sense of intimacy, and love for that partner.  The core issue begins with the expectations of the partner to measure up to the ultimate standard that each imagines, and this in combination with the projection of needs, versus the self-reliant meeting of their own needs, reinforces the karmically problematic dynamic we call conditional love...”i will love you IF...”.  This reflects a condition wherein the basis of the relationship itself equals a context of ‘use’...of being in relationship for self-interest, to get their own needs met through the partner.   The problem here is, and why this becomes karmically problematic, is because this situation will lead to either an oppressive stagnation in which they resign themselves to a life together without any meaningful personal or soul communion taking place, or, an abandonment of some kind will occur when one partner decides that the need which brought them into the relationship has been met, or they are sick of that need not being met, and thus the decision becomes that there is nothing more to gain from that partner.  The partner who gets abandoned will often be left feeling unresolved about why the relationship ended, and why they were abandoned by that partner.  That sets up future lifetimes in which the couple will meet again, with the intention to confront what was not confronted, and to recover that which was left unresolved....however, as long as they continue to look to each other to provide the essential needs that they are meant to be providing for themselves, this basic theme of use and abandoment and/or tolerating a void of intimacy will repeat.  it will go on and on until the lesson is finally realized.  This woman and her current husband have been together for many, many, many lifetimes, and this has been a CORE issue that these two have been trying to work out (composite 12th house pluto conjunct balsamic venus).  They are needing to learn how to develop unconditional love for one another...no more “I will love you IF”...and to replace this with a genuine orientation of “I will love you no matter what you do”.   The way this can be done is in realizing that the ultimate partner they are seeking cannot be found in another human being, but in their personal relationship with what we call God, however they define it.  Only God has the capacity to supply the kind of needs they have been seeking from each another...no human partner will ever have the capacity to supply these kinds of needs, so the first step occurs by inwardly embracing that fact.  When that acceptance occurs, there will be less compulsion to unconsciously project these kinds of needs onto other people, and there will be an inner recognition that because of their relationship with their Creator, the means of fulfilling these needs will reside within themselves.  When they realize the means of fulfilling these needs resides within themselves, they will find that the very basis of attraction to intimate partners will be based on a natural soul resonance and likeness of mind, values, and goals.  When relationships are formed on this basis, both partners will be able to independently grow throughout the course of time that they are together, as well continue ongoing growth as a merged unit. 

The current problem of lacking sexual desire for the current husband is based on the the woman’s existing motive for being in the relationship.  This is not the first time this pattern has manifested between the two.  What has occurred in the past is that the woman has, 1) not been completely honest with herself about her reasons for being in relationship with this man, and 2) because she has not been honest with herself, she has not had the capacity to be honest with him.  Because she has not been honest with him, he has not had the opportunities to understand her real needs, let alone support them.  What has happened is the woman has tolerated the relationship until the emotional estrangement simply could not be tolerated any longer, resulting in sudden leavings, which has had a very traumatic and wounding affect upon the husband because the husband had been unaware of the depth and reality of her dissatisfaction, and wasn’t given the chance to do anything about it....he senses the emotional distance/withdrawal, but can’t put his finger on what it is, which reinforces feelings in him that there is something intrinsically wrong with him....that who he is is somehow unworthy of real love.  A factor that is very important for the woman to understand, is that in evolutionary terms, the husband is interfacing with a very difficult evolutionary transition.  The very core and essence of security as he has known it, has been linked with an identity that has known itself as a reflection of traditional societal norms, traditional definitions that society has assigned to the male gender.  He is no longer inwardly identifying with these definitions, and that is creating a very deep crises with himself about how to be and survive in a world that doesn’t recognize the individuality that is natural to him.  This is a huge source of the current inertia.  The crises of not being able to any longer identify with the traditional male imagery induces a core feeling of hopelessness, as if there is nowhere for him to go, or nothing of value that he can do in the context of the external world, because the very basis of who he thought he was, is being progressively realized to be a bankrupt illusion, and that illusion is simply no longer working...the motivation to sustain this illusion is at a point of almost total exhaustion.  This woman can do a great service to her husband by drawing upon the very realizations that she herself has had in prior lifetimes, i.e., what it’s like to experience that crises, and what it has taken for her to progressively embrace who SHE is, and progressively throw off all the imposed expectations of society and external authorities of who THEY have wanted her to be, and find the courage to discover who she really is, and build a life around it.  If she can get in touch with this nature of compassion, and make an effort to see who her husband really is, his actual individuality, if she can listen for his actual needs, she will be able to be as a great support as he embarks on discovering and establishing a more authentic and natural relationship to himself.  Once he accesses this, he will find more confidence in finding new ways to be integrated in society, meaning he will find relevant opportunities to generate income and do this in an empowered, life-affirming way.  The core evolutionary lesson correlating to first house pluto, is learning how to see others needs as just as legitimate and important as one’s own.  In learning how to give to others in ways that help them meet their own needs, the first house pluto discovers that their own needs get met as a natural result.... 

I’m on a lunch break so have to stop here...i didn’t have enough time to put in all the astrological correlations for what was just written, so if you have a question about what symbols are correlating to specific statements, please let me know and I’ll provide the info when I get home from work.

Blessings,
Stacie
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Willow
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 30, 2009, 10:12 AM »

Hi Stacie,

Thank you SO much for your generous response to this relationship query. I would love to know more of the astro symbols..maybe you could drop some of them into the already written content. It feels to be right on, especially the "I will love you if"..but also many pearls in there..thanks again.

Willow

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Rad
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 30, 2009, 12:59 PM »

Willow,
 There are a number of dynamics and issues that would cause this effect. First, with the Nodal Axis being in Libra/ Aries, which her Venus is Cancer squares, this correlates to what we can call an emotional paradox linked with her needs for relationship, and her need for independence and freedom. These dual desires obviously go in the opposite direction. Because of this dynamic, of itself, it causes a Soul to choose partners that only embody some of her core needs, and not all. So each partner will reflect some of her needs, but not all of them. This is an unconscious way of creating exit points, or separations in order for her opposing desire for freedom to occur.
  Within this dynamic is the issue of lifetimes of trauma that remain unresolved. This of course is seen in the dominate 11th house of hers including her Mars/Moon conjunction in Gemini. It is also seen through the cusps of her 7th and 8th houses in Aquarius. With the ruler of those signs being in Cancer with her Sun this demonstrates not only that some of the traumas happened with her families of origin, but also through intimate relationships, marriages, and sexual traumas of different kinds. When a Soul creates traumas that remain unresolved the natural consequence to that is EMOTIONAL DETACHMENT: very hard to engage the emotional body because the unresolved traumas create a Soul fear of doing so. And for her those fears will all be in the emotional fear of being wide open and vulnerable to anyone except perhaps to her children and pets.
  As a result of this she has learned to primarily relate to others on an intellectual and physical basis: her Moon and Mars in Gemini, and the detachment of Aquarius in general. The Mars/ Moon in Gemini has causes a high degree of restlessness because of the need for all kinds of adventures linked with self-discovery: Mars is the ruler of her N.Node in Aries. This can in turn cause of another fear, and that is the fear of being entrapped by others. So this fear, of itself, can also then contribute to not emotionally engaging with intimate others. This is very deep issue within her because of recent past lifetimes in which the intimate other has been very possessive and has attempted to restrict her need for freedom and self-discovery, partners that wanted her to be a vicarious extension of themselves. This is seen in her Saturn in Virgo in the 2nd which is squaring her Moon/Mars conjunction, and also squaring her Chiron in Sagittarius in her 5th house.
  From a purely sexual point of view her Soul has also desired all kinds of sexual adventures and ways of being sexual. This creates it's own kind of sexual restlessness that can become bored with any given partner after a certain amount of time. When she first meets up with someone who shares whatever her sexual desires are at any given time then the sexual dynamics can be quite exciting and physically intense. Yet without any real emotional  content this will almost always lead to boredom for her, loosing her sexual desire or interest in the partner altogether.
  With Venus squaring her Nodal Axis this also correlates to 'skipped steps'. So this will correlate to attracting partners, in this life, whom she has been involved with in other lifetimes in which something was not finished between them. These partners will then trigger all the dynamics that are being discussed here, and, because of that, sustain her orientation to relationships the way they have been.
  In the end until she resolves the nature of the traumas that have brought her into this life, or finds a partner who understands this and encourages her to understand and resolve what those traumas are, the dynamic that you are asking about will simply be sustained.
  Rad
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Willow
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 30, 2009, 04:20 PM »

Rad,

Thank you so much..that was extremely helpful..and all the astrology made perfect sense of course....

How does one resolve the nature of the traumas? Or how would she be able to uncover that for herself?
the WHY for the traumas?

Willow
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Rad
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 31, 2009, 09:47 AM »

Hi Willow,
 Any Soul can access the nature of their traumas if there is a desire to do so. Desire is always the key. She will know of course of the 'symptoms' of her behaviors such as her inability to engage her emotions and just wanting the sex to purely physical. That is a symptom. The symptom has a cause. This can then be accessed, if their is a desire to do so, by honest self-introspection. That introspection can be assisted by others who have the capacity to asked highly skilled questions that have the affect of inducing awareness of the causes. These people could be skilled therapists including those that have the ability to do past life regressions. It could also be also be fairly evolved intimate others who have that capacity to pose the relevant types of questions and it could also be friends that she trusts without question who also have that ability. It could be a skilled Evolutionary Astrologer as well who can trace the sequence of her prior lifetimes and help her understand the reasons and causes for each of them that have all lead to the current life.

 Rad
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