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Author Topic: When is healing possible, not possible?  (Read 3395 times)
ari moshe
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« on: May 03, 2010, 01:02 PM »

Hello EA Community,

I recognize that some people are born with pre-existing conditions that simply cannot change (ie missing limbs) and that there can by any purpose for this condition be it karmic or evolutionary necessity.

A client, I believe 3rd individuated, recently contacted me as she is told she has barrettes esophagus and wants to know if it will go away. I have difficulty answering that. What I told her is what I understand about her chart. Her transits, progressions and solar arcs clearly imply that this is a key period in her life when it comes to resolving karmic dynamics and evolutionary intentions.



The full phase planets to Pluto, as I understand it, implies that she is meant to develop, on her own, a vision that she can apply to a social reality. This means speaking up and focusing her energies towards a singular purpose and honoring her need to balance that with personal down time when neccesary. Her Mars is also the final disposition in her chart. And her Mars Pluto relationship is indicative of a significant turning point intended in this life.

So can we therefore, based on the phasal relationship to Pluto- in particular the Mars Pluto phase, conclude that this sickness is meant catalyze initiative on her part? And thus, that it can go away?

To clarify- the question I have is: How in the world can an ea astrology know if a particular condition will go away or not?

Thank you
Ari Moshe
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JJ
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2010, 04:55 PM »

Hi Ari,

Well I am in the healthcare field and so I wanted to share some ideas about your question. I am new to interpretation so I don't have everything down and I'm sure I will make a lot of mistakes, but I will share my ideas anyways. The question as I understand it is: how do we know if a particular condition will go away by using EA methods?

One thing that is helpful is first to think about how anyone knows if a particular condition will change. The parameters that are generally useful to determine the prognosis are:
1. Understanding the cause of the condition
2. Understanding the remedy/medicine for the causes
3. Understanding the strength of the condition; how far it has progressed
4. Assessing the strength of the person with the condition
5. Assessing the resources that person has available to them
When we look at all of these things then we can begin to understand when and if a condition will or can change and how quickly or slowly that might happen. So I wanted to offer some thoughts in regards to how to go about looking at the chart using these parameters within the context of the EA paradigms.

1. The cause of the condition. Barett's Esophagus is something that can be looked up online and with a bit of observation and correlation we can see the potential for manifestation within the chart. As I understand it, the condition is defined as when the normal lining of the esophagus, which is epithelial tissue, is replaced by the growth of intestinal lining. The cause according to western medicine is unknown, but there are correlations with GERD (chronic acid reflux,) and Barrett's can lead to esophageal cancer if it progresses. When I look at the chart there are indicators for this type of condition. Uranus in the 4th house correlates to stress in the digestive tract overall, with possible problems in the lining of the intestine and overly acidic conditions throughout. (From JWG's Uranus book.) In the sign of scorpio, indicates that it is a genetic potential or a condition that is manifesting from the level of DNA/RNA (which makes sense because the tissue itself is growing in the wrong place) and opposing chiron in Taurus which rules the throat - indicating that we might see this potential manifesting in the throat region. Chiron in Taurus is squared by Jupiter in Leo in the 12th indicating a potential for conditions of excess or growth (jupiter) and an overall weakness in general vitality (leo in 12th conjunct the moon in cancer) but a capacity for resilience. More deeply, I think the causes could be attributed to the overall circumstances that the soul is facing, which is what you were starting to assess with your interpretation of the Pluto mars opposition and the north node and saturn being in Virgo/ learning through crisis.

2. The remedy for the condition that we have available to us as EA practitioners is found through looking to the polarity point of pluto and the nodes. Here it indicates, in part, working to resolve the wounds/guilt acquired (sun/chiron in the 10th) as a teacher type by compromising their natural sense of values and identity, in order to conform to man made laws, during the attempt to consistently assert their beliefs and follow their intuition (ruler of the north node conjunct the PPP in aries in the 9th, as well as conjunct mars and venus) and the resulting need to develop discrimination about what to take into oneself at all levels (the South node is neptune in sag squaring the virgo/pisces nodes indicating that the past is being repeated in order to be resolved, with the resolution node being Virgo in the 2nd/discrimination for survival's sake.)

Also practically speaking, the remedy is found in the causes - if the digestion is weak, strengthen the digestive tract. If the constitution/qi is low, strengthen the overall qi through lifestyle, diet, detox, and fortification. I am simplifying here to illustrate a point. [From a chinese medicine perspective there also would be specific heat conditions in the gut and heart that could be addressed relating to the pluto mars opposition in libra/aries (gut/kidneys) and the chiron square jupiter in leo (correlating to the heart fire moving into the esophagus.)]

3. Understanding how far the condition has progressed. You could inquire about the onset of the condition: when did it start? What aspects were happening at that time? This could also give clues as to the emotional/psychological causes that were being activated by those transits. Was it due to overall resistance to change? 8th house/pluto/scorpio planets and transits,etc? What was the diagnosis as far as what stage is the condition in? For example is the condition in its initial stages, intermittent stages or already serious/ progressed to cancer. The person themselves can give you this information to the best of their knowledge.

4. Assessing the strength of the individual with the condition. Look to the sun/ chiron conjunction in taurus in the 10th house. Is this person a survivor? The moon t-squaring the pluto mars opposition and conjunct jupiter in leo. How does this person compensate (jupiter) for their weaknesses? [These are just ideas going through my head - I don't have all the answers to my own questions.]

5. Lastly, assessing the resources they have available to them. We can look at the chart to see what resources they have available and have or haven't cultivated. Are they working the north node or still repeating south node confusion and victimization experiences? You can ask them about practical resources they have - family support, a steady income, health care coverage, their state of mind, etc.

Then from looking at all of these things, some assessments can be made. You could talk to the person about the causes of the condition from an EA perspective and how to resolve those causes from an EA perspective. The chart itself gives the answers. You could make referrals to healthcare professionals. You might even have clear insight about the timing of the condition, when to act and when they would begin to see some changes according to the transits which initiated the conditions and which are involved in resolving the causes. It is all about observation and correlation.

I think in doing all of these things you would have something to share with the client to give them hope and direction even if you didn't have the exact answer. Because we have to remember that people participate in their health and disease and yes, some things are out of our hands, but we can still work to make any situation better as long as we have life and breath and consciousness. (As a saturn in the sixth house person, conjunct sun and chiron, I know from experience.) Even if the condition cannot be cured, we can change the level of suffering we experience as a result of the condition, and that is something you can absolutely address. And often times by removing and reducing the suffering from a causal perspective, which is what EA does, the symptoms or condition itself does change or heal.

These are my thoughts. Maybe I am overcomplicating things. Wish I could just be JWG and look at the chart and know all of the answers...but I am still a student myself.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Blessings to you,
JJ
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ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 07:47 AM »

Hi JJ,

Quote
These are my thoughts. Maybe I am overcomplicating things. Wish I could just be JWG and look at the chart and know all of the answers...but I am still a student myself.

Haha, I know how you feel! JJ that was truly insightful. And thank you for reminding me about observation and correlation. I'm going to call her today- I'll share here what observations and correlations I end up making. I think you made a really good point about building a stronger constitution, taking better care of her over health in general. And that linked to not being victim any longer.
am
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Elen
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 01:09 PM »

Hi JJ,

Thank you so much for your post.  I found it to be really clear and insightful.  I am frankly not sure at this point if I will be continuing with astrology or healing, but if I do, I will be referring to your post repeatedly.  It synthesized the 2 systems so well!

Peace,
Ellen
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ari moshe
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 02:28 PM »

We talked again today and I asked her to tell me as much about the dis-ease as possible.
It ends up the doctors don't actually think it is Barette's Esophogas anymore. Nothing came up to be cancerous. In the end she was diagnoses the ambiguous "ibs".

She had some anxiety around "so WHAT is wrong with me?" The continued presence of that anxiety was a key observation for me- as it is clearly linked to her victimization consciousness.

In the end we mostly talked about her marriage (sn in 8th) and how she doesn't feel supported/ have any time for herself/doesn't take care of herself/eat meals. We talked about developing self love and time for herself to be nurtured, heal from past losses etc... It became clear through talking to her that her health condition, whatever it actually is- is something she can adopt to, live with and manage. I didn't use the word "cure" because I don't know. What I did know is that more effort is possible on her part. Healing for her means a complete lifestyle shift whereby she focuses fully on self care- and through that can do all the art and writing her soul is deeply yearning to do but "never gets around to", "my family doesn't give me any time for that" "I feel guilty focusing too much on myself" etc...

I think our talk was really helpful for her. Thanks again for your perspective.


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ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 02:31 PM »

I have another basic question on this topic:

Why do souls in third stage spiritual get sick with seemingly incurable illnesses? At that stage, isn't there a natural ability to heal?

Is the answer that at that stage there is simply no need to interfere. The soul is identified with Creator, so it innately accepts the larger purpose/reason/meaning behind anything. It CAN interfere with the illness- however if it does so, it does so on behalf of Creator's will. Is this an accurate understanding?

Thank you
Ari Moshe
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Steve
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 03:03 PM »

Hi Ari

Why do souls in third stage spiritual get sick with seemingly incurable illnesses? At that stage, isn't there a natural ability to heal?

Is the answer that at that stage there is simply no need to interfere. The soul is identified with Creator, so it innately accepts the larger purpose/reason/meaning behind anything. It CAN interfere with the illness- however if it does so, it does so on behalf of Creator's will. Is this an accurate understanding?

For one thing, many Souls at that level take on disease and karma from other Souls, as a way of helping them evolve.  From what I've understood (not from 1st hand experience) when karma exists, it has to be fulfilled - its part of Natural Law.  It doesn't magically disappear because some good guy came along and said "I'll take that on!".  Such advanced Souls have more capacity to internally balance (heal) those conditions than most Souls, but I gather there are limits to how much of that a Soul can take on, from how many people, without being affected by it.    This is a form of the divine service some such Souls perform at that level of evolution.  

The way you phrased your question contains a subtle filter that is very common in the western world (if not all over this planet), that the natural intention of life is to be long and healthy, that if they really have it together spiritually and health wise, everyone should be able to heal all conditions and live long with good health.  I'd say that is more of an ideal than a complete reality.

As you stated in your question,  souls in third stage spiritual do get sick with incurable illnesses. The point of life is not to sustain an earthly body for the longest and healthiest possible length of time, but to fulfill the evolutionary intentions.  In some cases the life plays out in the way we think we want it, long and healthy, while in others, not so.

When you are speaking of 3rd stage spiritual, you are speaking of Souls who have surrendered their lives to doing the will of God/Goddess, whatever that involves for them.  Why did Jesus have to die a horrible death?  Logic would tell you such a great Soul would be brought up to heaven by adoring masses, yes?  Yet it did not happen.  Was it a mistake?

Wolf would tell you its because of our misconceptions about God itself, that God itself is an imperfect force seeking its perfection, that we are here as part of that force seeking its perfection.   And everything does not end rosy for all people at all times, the way we like to think it can.  And much of that is not because the people did something wrong, but because it was intended or necessary, for various Soul learnings.  In the case of 3rd stage spiritual people, I would say the learnings are around the need to totally surrender to being the vehicle or agent of divinity, no matter what that feels like on the human level.  I suspect its not an easy thing to learn at times.  

Someone here asked recently why a Soul entering 2nd stage spiritual would even want to go there, why didn't they just stop evolving, knowing they were about to do things that might really screw people up.  We could say the same thing about entering 3rd stage spiritual - although they may be helping people more than hurting them, in some ways its probably harder for the Soul than even 2nd stage spiritual, because you can no longer hide out in spiritual ego grandiosity - your own Soul's desire nature continually pulls you forward into circumstances that are not fun at all from the human personality level, an ongoing personal sacrifice for the good of others, to carry out divine intent.

Steve

« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 03:16 PM by Steve » Logged

ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 03:31 PM »

Thank you Steve, that was very insightful- especially this:

Quote
your question contains a subtle filter that is very common in the western world (if not all over this planet), that the natural intention of life is to be long and healthy, that if they really have it together spiritually and health wise, everyone should be able to heal all conditions and live long with good health.

Ari Moshe
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PamS
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 03:34 PM »

Hi Ari,


interesting question

JJ thank you for your insight into this also!!!


Steve, thank for you smart answer



The way you phrased your question contains a subtle filter that is very common in the western world (if not all over this planet), that the natural intention of life is to be long and healthy, that if they really have it together spiritually and health wise, everyone should be able to heal all conditions and live long with good health.  I'd say that is more of an ideal than a complete reality.



This reminds me of a friend last week who was very upset at the complexity of her life in the last few years as she had been meditating on manifestation for herself.  I gently reminded her that if you are going to take on manifestation as a practice for soul growth you need to look at it in the large and complex way.   You cant run and hide when things don't turn out good and happy, natural law will kick you in the gut for that... Life is messy....


blessings,

pam
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mountainheather
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 03:45 PM »

I have found Susun Weed's work around understanding the traditions of healing to be very good on this topic. When we ask how we can fix our health problem we are looking with a scientific and typically patriarchal view, which has its place I might add, but the key is it isn't the only way.   The Wise Woman Way(her words) invites a view of your health issue as an invitation to wholeness, how is this problem asking me to nourish myself, my environment...In my years of healing work I have found her teachings in line with the ways of natural law, very inclusive and open free sharing of information. I highly recommend her work (website, books, mb)in dealing with understanding how to maneuver through all the modalities and views on healing these days. Heather
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Steve
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 05:21 PM »

Quote
your question contains a subtle filter that is very common in the western world (if not all over this planet), that the natural intention of life is to be long and healthy, that if they really have it together spiritually and health wise, everyone should be able to heal all conditions and live long with good health.

Let me add that I sometimes see clients who have internalized deep guilt over their inability to heal all of their conditions, despite their best efforts, because of belief in this subtle filter. 

All we can do is the best we can do.  Past a certain point it is no longer up to us as human beings.

Helping people to become aware of and to release from unconscious guilt patterns stemming from beliefs like this is one of the most valuable services an EA astrologer can do for clients and friends.
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PamS
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 06:01 PM »

Hi Again,

Yes to what Steve has said.  My friend I was talking about, blammed herself for her complex life situation- she was "bad" because she had manifested "bad" things in her life.... This is such a deeply Christain overlay, that somehow you are morally bad if something complicated happenes to you or you get ill... This underlying belief thought or as Steve said "filter" is what was tripping my friend up... Life, Dharma. evolution is far more vast and complex than that...

thanks for bring all this up Ari...

blessings,

Pam
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ari moshe
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 09:44 PM »

I've been thinking...

The only reason why anyone would ever get sick, is the same reason why anyone would ever be born, die, feel pain, laugh etc...

Duality, cause and effect, time- is a container for a soul's evolutionary journey back to Source. This it seems, is it's only purpose.

Sickness, dis-ease etc only exist as a part of the maya of this reality that we created for our evolution. A soul never gets sick- at the core, it is always, only in a state of DESIRE. The nature of that desire is what manifests the physical reality that it will experience.

When a soul experiences anything at all- it can ask, in neutrality, "why?" I feel that "why" can take a soul as far as it wants to go. Now I get why JWG emphasizes that Pluto folks ask "why" about everything "why life, why death"- those are really good questions.
Ari Moshe

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adina
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2010, 05:51 PM »

Gosh, I'm just getting back to the MB and all these wonderful posts after a "down time" due to illness. This is a wonderful discussion that is bringing up so many important issues.

I really agree with what you posted, Steve, especially since you clarified where so many of our beliefs about healing come from and that many – maybe even most – are not in alignment with natural law at all.  I’d like to add a couple of things, some of which are examples.

I also found your statement – “Helping people to become aware of and to release from unconscious guilt patterns stemming from beliefs like this is one of the most valuable services an EA astrologer can do for clients and friends.” – an excellent example of the wounds people carry and how to help them.

In October of 2007 I went to see John of God (3rd stage spiritual) when he was at the Omega Institute in upstate New York. This was, as many of you know, because I have Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) – or in simple terms – emphysema.  First of all, John of God (JoG) made it very clear that the healing energy that comes thru him isn’t even FOR physical healing, it is meant to heal the underlying SOUL issues that created the disease. And second, as it turned out, I did NOT receive a physical healing, but I got FAR, FAR more…. far better, for indeed, it was as he said, I got a real soul healing. And even THAT went far beyond what I could have imagined or have thought to ask for! (I will try to write about this in detail for a post on my blog about my transition).  In addition, my current spiritual teacher, Tayo, told me (oh so kindly and gently) that physical healing of that particular disease was not in the plan for me this life. It’s one of those that simply as to be lived out… lived through.

In relation to why people would continue to evolve to 2nd stage spiritual. Beyond the fact that most people aren’t aware of these “stages” the way we are, and therefore not aware of the possibilities that lie ahead, AND what you (Steve) pointed out about carrying out divine intent… I would add it is that desire along with the desire to know God ever more deeply … more and more completely… the increasing desire for God above all else that drives the soul ever onward at that point. It is that desire for God that is their motivating force, even when and if they “screw up.”  Smiley

JJ, I really enjoyed your step by step process of interpretation to help guide the patient from beginning to end of the health process.  And your statement, “Even if the condition cannot be cured, we can change the level of suffering we experience as a result of the condition, and that is something you can absolutely address.” Very well stated, JJ!

Heather, I have followed Susan Weed’s work for years and love it! Thanks for bring it to our attention here.

Pam, thank you for sharing the story about your client. I have found this happening with many people in the New Age movement. I have been bucking The Secret since it was published… because (1) it wasn’t any “secret” and (2) to me, it’s just the New Age version of Christian guilt. You’re not getting wealthy, healthy, the new job, whatever it is we want…. Because we don’t BELIEVE enough… we don’t PRAY hard enough…. We don’t envision already having what we want, or we don’t use enough emotion, you’re not TRYing HARD enough, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseaum….. just reinforcing the person’s guilt and/or deep sadness because they haven’t been able to manifest whatever it is they want. Think of what this does to the person who’s karma/evolutionary necessity demand that they NOT have whatever it is they’re trying to manifest. My Gosh… more guilt, more anger, more feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. Been there, done that, and bought the frickin’ T-shirt, so I’ll pass on that one this time.

I think the underlying premise that we need to and can change our thoughts to change our reality is valid, but it, too, somehow got distorted by tying it to man-made beliefs about what life is “supposed to look like/be.” And again, as Steve pointed out, it’s getting back to the natural god, the natural way of doing things, and the way things naturally are that will ACtually bring us to our own inner state of balance and grace. Sometimes we’re going to get eaten by the lion,  Cry  and sometimes we’re going to be the one feasting on the filet.  Grin

Ari, I’m glad you brought this topic to the table. It sure did bring up a great discussion, to which I hope more will be added. And I think you got it when you said, “the soul never gets sick….” Etc. And yes, indeed, WHY is the question…. As well as why we’re all here!  LOL

The bottom line that JWG always went back to were the words of Jesus to seek God first, put God first, and what you need will be given to you. And that seeking needs to be sincere and consistent. Such a simple concept; and yet if we’re honest with ourselves, it’s much harder to pull off. But as JWG ALSO said many times, “The value is in the effort.” 

God bless,
Adina
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ari moshe
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2010, 07:11 PM »

Oh adina, I so love it when you come back online! I really learn a lot from how you communicate, and what you communicate.

It seems very challenging to not interpret what happens to us to be one way or the other, and then SETTLE into that knowing as a way of not dealing with our reality. (i.e. applying a particular belief system to a particular physical condition).

I know in all cases ACCEPTANCE of what is is a necessary first step. But I see so many people suffering, with sicknesses- so many people trying to understand "why" to everything in their life- but very few people actually finding the answer. Most people find AN answer that provides them with security.

I know that ea is really accurate when it comes to understanding the soul's dynamics. And from within myself, it is clear to me that what manifests physical arises from the non physical. however HOW can one know for them self for absolute certainty the actual nature of a physical condition? Perhaps we can take a look at your chart again Adina and explore why it is that your condition will not go away from an ea point of view?

Do any ea astrologers here feel that you are capable of reading a chart and making such a conclusion for someone else?
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