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Linda
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 07:27 PM »

Ellen,

Your questions are so interesting and pertinent to this discussion.

I think if one is in a 'spiritual' condition, and has legitimate fears around food and starvation (and let's face it, survival is our basic instinct) then they will need to draw upon their spirituality, such as placing their trust in a Higher Power for survival purposes.

We have Ceres conjunct Pluto in Capricorn at the moment, and they are trining Mercury Rx in Taurus - and so many of us are asking these questions around values, self-reliance, the need to care for others and ourselves.  JWG, in Pluto I, in regards to Pluto in the 2nd house or Taurus, wrote:

"Individuals with a spiritual focus must learn to open up to new rituals, techniques or methods that allow for a further deepening of their spiritual commitment...............If they do not learn to open up and share, then the Source or Universal will cease to provide the material needs necessary to sustain themselves." 

I'll wait to hear from Steve and the others, as it seems there are more questions than answers at the moment.   Cheesy Huh
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stephen
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 09:07 PM »

"Do not be negative. Stay in the positive. What you give your emotion and thought to becomes your reality."

Hi Linda,

  Thanks very much for that reminder.  It reminds me of the Buddha's saying 'Today is built from the thoughts and actions of yesterday, just as tomorrow is created from the thoughts and actions of today.'  (Not a direct quote.)

  Once I read a poem that stated something like 'Oh my Goddess, wake me a thousand times a day, a thousand thousand if necessary, and remind me of You.'  (Annie Dillard, maybe.)  I forget so easily how incredibly powerful we are.  As Milton (?) says, 'Our own thoughts can make a Heaven of Hell, or even of Hell, a Heaven'...or something like that!

Blessings,
Stephen
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stephen
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 09:19 PM »

Hi,

  Thanks for these excellant thought-provoking posts everyone.  I don't have any original thoughts to add on Evolutionary States as lived within Natural Law, but I was asking within for any insights (as per Steve's suggestion to Heather).  What came to me was that to understand Evolutionary States from the viewpoint of Natural Law would really require a clear understanding first of Natural Law, and second of its distortions through patriarchal conditioning.  This might of course only be an answer for me personally, but in case it provides value to anyone else, I wanted to go ahead with a posting.  Searching through the old MB for 'law' and 'patriarchal' and 'matriarchal' and similar variations yields alot of information...so, to that end of generating a good understanding of living within Natural Law (not with patriarchal distortion), the following suggestion of resources from JWG might help (I think Adina has maybe already posted these books on this site?):

Quote from: Posted by Katharina on March 14, 2001 at 15:43:58:
3) You also mentioned that in order to make good use of the planetary nodes in the natal chart it would be essential to read ACTUAL history. Not history as written by patriarchal men of our society. I really want to understand where we are coming from, how the past has shaped the present, and how to use the Nodes, along with the archetypes you describe in the Pluto books and tapes, but where can I find this information? Is it really written down somewhere, or does one have to intuit this knowledge?
Jeffrey: There are books written that correlate with actual history but one must really look around to find them. Books that can get you going are books written by Monica Sjoo for example, or a book called The Once And Future Godess, a book called Whores in History by Nickie Roberts .... a good place to look are old, used, boostores that specialize in very old books. For example, one day I was going thru such a store in Seattle and discovered a book written in the 13th century by a normal women, and this book was her daily diary of that time. This is literal history.


  Also, as per the posts in this thread about Manifestation of Your Reality, and Steve's suggestion to Heather about writing through intuition, what if we each ask for the gift of this knowledge?  Say out loud: 'Please Great God'dess, I truly want to live within Natural Law.  Please allow me to live in this way, even if I do not now know how.  Please make this valuable original Way open for me.'  Ask nightly before bed, and each morning upon waking, perhaps.  Adina stated in the Evolutionary States thread that once 'you put the thought out there, sincerely, it will come back...'  Or something to that end.  (Sorry if I misquoted you, Adina!)

  Also, a self-assignment that I am currently working on is separating the information about each of the Archetypes of the Zodiac into its Natural Component, on the one hand, and its Distorted Component, on the other hand.  The sources are Deva's book, JWG's Pluto 1, and 'The Signs' transcript.  I hope this posting, and these ideas, come across as supportive of the general direction of this thread...

  The following post of JWG seems to me to especially also help towards that understanding of Natural Law (which could be supportive of Evolutionary States as lived through Natural Law).

Blessings and Light,
Stephen


Quote
7) galactic center
Posted by Vanya on April 03, 2001 at 19:05:19:
  Hi Jeffrey - I am hearing alot about the galactic centre these days (the point that correlates to about 26 degrees Sagittarius). I know that it was touched on a small bit in class but I was wondering about a few things; Do you use it in all your readings. And where can I find good info on it...do you have tapes or writings on it or maybe you could elaborate on it here in the chat room? Thanks

  Jeffrey: First, the 'center' of the galaxy correlates to the 'center' of gravity for the galaxy. Like a root of a plant that contains the 'blueprint' for the plant itself. The actual center is at twenty eight degrees of Sagittarius. Thus, in essence, one simply needs to know the total archetype, relative the natural laws of the Creator, that the archetype of Sagittarius correlates to to understand the 'root' or blueprint of this galaxy in terms of its 'original design'.
  It is because of this original design that the human being has a natural awareness that the Earth is connected to 'something' much larger than just the Earth itself: that something being the Source or Creator Itself. It is because of this natural awareness, and the need to KNOW what that Source or Creator is that is the casuative factor within consciousness that sets in motion the evolution of consciousness itself in its efforts to know the totality of the Creation.
  Within this awareness, focused now upon it's immediate environment, Earth, is the need to know the 'natural laws' that correlate to the time and space reality we call Earth or Gaia: how the Creation manifests itself via the natural laws that correlate to Earth. As a result, all peoples lived by and through these natural laws. In so doing the human was in a state of balance with the total Creation upon Earth: living in harmony with its environment.
  Of course as time proceeded relative to the ongoing evolution upon this Earth a progressive violation to these natural laws began: 6500 bce being the beginning point of this progressive violation...... the beginning of what we call the patriarchal times. Within this was the rise of various 'religions' that serve as vehicles of how we 'interpret' what appears to be the 'phenomenal' nature of the Creation. How any of us 'interprets' the apparent phenomenal nature of the Creation correlates to the archetype of Sagittarius. Until 6500 b.c.e the 'interpretation' of the phenomenal nature of the Creation was simply thru the natural laws set in motion by the Creator in the first place. To KNOW THESE LAWS AND TO CONSCIOUSLY UNITE WITH THEM. This then correlating to actual knowledge thru the knowing produced of actual experience.
  As the patriarchal transition began there began a progressive shift away from the direct knowing born of experience to 'beliefs' that were now progressively becoming 'sophisticated' abstract and conceptual systems born of the mind that projected such conceptions/ abstracts upon the phenomenal nature of the Creation. Among those projections/ beliefs was the delusive thought projection that the human being was superior to Nature and that Nature was in place to serve the human being, to be dominated for the human's purposes.
  The result of that thought projection and belief speaks for itself in today's world. Complicating this thought delusion/ belief was also the great shift in natural consciousness which is defined by the natural principles of 'giving, sharing, and inclusion' to 'self-interest' and 'exclusion'. This shift itself correlating to the 6500 b.c.e point. So in combination this has lead to the raping of the Earth for human purposes which most any person that is capable of breathing and blinking is aware of.
  This 'collective' awareness of the destruction of our Earth being set in motion in 1988 relative to the last great conjunction of Saturn=Earth with Uranus at exactly twenty eight degrees of Sagittarius. These conjuctions set the 'tone' socially for the next 48 years. The reality to be experienced by all of us .... so now of course the 'news' is full on an almost daily basis of various Earth events or phenomena that correlate to the fact that the human being is sadly at severe odds with the very environment that it is dependent upon for it's own survival. For example, over one hundred species of life is extincted on a daily basis now thru human activities.
  The bottom line is that the choices that are made during this current cycle of Saturn and Uranus will determine the long range 'fate' of the human species as it correlates to Nature's 'rebellion', Uranus, against the human organism. From the point of view of Uranus, detached, we could pretend that we are out in space, observing earth, our eyes being like a microscope that then perceives the human organism relative to Earth as 'cancer cells' upon and within it. Just as the human being has an immune system so too does Gaia or Earth. Thus, Gaia or Earth, like the immune system in the human being, is attempting to 'isolate' the human in its efforts to sustain the integrity of the rest of the natural Creation upon this Earth. This isolation occurring thru Earth events which include the progressive contagion, Uranus, of disease that can affect all humans everywhere. From Gaia's or Earth's point of view this is a necessary 'culling' effect in order for the whole organism of Earth to survive.
  Paradoxically, Uranus, it is now thru the distorted structure of current consciousness that is defined thru the idea of exclusion and self-interest that is now serving as the motivation to make new choices that honor the totality of the Earth: Nature. THE NEED TO SURVIVE being the root of this motivation. Thus thru circumstantial necessity the human being is being forced to change where this change requires the human being to re-honor the Earth itself: the totality of Natural Laws.
  In terms of individual chart work simply locate where that 28 degrees of Sagittarius occurs: by house. It is exactly there, that 'center of gravity' that any of us can understand truly understand the nature of 'natural' laws. By focusing there, the natural laws of the archetype, the house in which the 28 degree symbol occurs, can be understood. Then, like a line of dominos, by focusing there all the other natural laws that correlate to the totality of nature on Earth can be understood.




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Dhyana
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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 10:55 PM »

In terms of manifestation…Like Linda said to a friend pray for money and the earth will provide…. This confuses me, I know so many people who do this and no money comes.  I work with homeless teens and they pray for food and shelter and it does not come.  

Not only did it not work for me, it actually never resonated deep in my soul.



Hi Pam, Dhyana, Heather, Stephen and Steve:

Asking Mother Earth for anything at all came from Keisha Crowther, Little Grandmother - and I felt her words described natural truths, and were in line with the EA philosophy. The reference to asking for dollars came from Keisha in that the earth has always provided us with food, shelter, warmth, etc. Here is an extract:

"You are the creator of your world. What you give your thoughts to, what you give your emotions to becomes your reality.  We start creating our reality.  If I'm negative and think of negative things, my world's going to be negative. But the other side tells us we can ask for anything we want, whether it be dollars, whether it be your spiritualness, ask for what you want. Ask the Great Everything for what you want, but remember the key is to remember that you have a great I Am.  You are just a spark that came from the great God and Goddess. Remember who you are. You have a greater self. Tell that greater self what you need, what you want and do it with as much emotion as possible, because your emotion is your connect to your great I am. If you ask for anything without any emotion it will not come. Your emotion is your great self. So when you use emotion, when you feel how great it would be to have this thing that you are wanting, then it starts pouring down upon you. Do not be negative. Stay in the positive. What you give your emotion and thought to becomes your reality."

"Let us become one tribe, the Tribe of Many Colours from all continents, because we are brothers and sisters. We have one mother: our Mother Earth. Our sacred beloved mother. She is your mother and she is mine, and that makes me your sister. I love you. You are my family. You are all my relatives. I love you. If you want to be in the tribe of many colours, just love......Just see all of us as children of great god and goddess. Love your Mother Earth, and let's love each other and take care of one another. I love you. I love all of you....."

I hope I haven't gone too off-topic, but it's beautiful to see natural truths such as the above expressed like this!  And especially if one is in the 'spiritual' condition, I think it's a beautiful thing to ask Mother Earth to help us with our needs.  

Hi Linda,

When I wrote what you quoted above regarding "manifesting" :Quote from: Dhyana on May 06, 2010, 12:40:34 PM
Not only did it not work for me, it actually never resonated deep in my soul.

--I believe you may have took it out of the context in which I meant in my sharing of it.

You see, that context in which that was written was this; I was referring to a group of people that I had spent many many years in contact with, through my mother's " Holistic Unity CENTER"  that spent much of their time  trying to "manifest" all kinds of things that they "thought" they really needed to be fufilled in themselves-- like, for example "a new car", "a new house", "the perfect body wieght" "a new lover", "a million dollars", "perfect health", even things like "immortality of the body (for god's sakes!)" --things like that..u know? And sure, some things were valid, I guess,  -- but sometimes it was taken just too far... and got ridiculous (IMHO) and it simply did not resonate with me at all. Sometimes I would just stick out like a sore thumb in that place, LOL!


 I had no interest in trying to manifest "my" reality.  I ONLY wanted to  KNOW, as in heart knowledge, and be intimate with, REALITY itself!

I felt I had no business trying to manipulate the universe to satisify my random desires, as if I knew better about what it was that I needed, or even wanted, for that matter. I just found nothing one bit fufilling in that entire school of thought,  "creating your own reality", "manifesting your dreams" --and "manifesting your perfect life", "more, more, more",  etc etc. --and part of this was probably due to the way I saw it being USED!-- as a distraction from the pain of ones life perhaps ;like trying to pour pink paint over everything so one didnt have to come face to face with the pain in their life or something--  As much as an attachment to or a clinging to "things",as in the "things" one might want when living the "american dream", for an example.

I simply recognized, wholeheartedly, that whatever it was that I could possibly manifest and thereby gain, I COULD ALSO THEN, LOSE!

So instead, my energy went into this life long heart inquiry of, WHAT IS IT THAT CANNOT EVER BE LOST? There was no desire more important to me than this HEART calling. I couldnt seem to put my heart into anything else, even when I tried (usually as per the counsel of my mother and the other members of the center I am refferring to here).


 I must have somehow recognized, even if I didnt think about it in words to myself; --Why waste my time on persuits like that of manifesting more things, etc. --To me, they had/ have no LASTING or INHERENT VALUE? I'm alive, I'm fed, I have decent clothes, a good family, and husband,healthy children, enough money to live in a nice suburban american neighborhood in a newer house, and even a car,(and sure, maybe not much extra spending money but if that's the worst part, that's not so bad!) --why do I want to spend my precious life force trying to manifest getting even more stuff, when to half the world's population, I would be considered "rich"? WOuldnt it be wise to use the life force energies to get to the HEART OF THE MATTER -- So my energies naturally went to the inquiry "What had/has MOST VALUE ?"

And it's not like I see these in opposition to one another, either!  I just didnt/don't see the point in steering the ship in all kinds of directions... when just steering towards Reality would be the most useful focus, at least to me --and surely one is provided what is needed, in the interim.

So I simply wanted to be intimate with what is REAL --what has TRUE VALUE. I  found all that other stuff, (especially the way I saw it being used) to be a distraction, u know. --but not in opposition -- just not getting to THE BOTTOM LINE, so to speak --u know?

The god given energy that I was privy to be lent, not to mention the freedom and space I had been graced with by being born as an American (thus far a free country to do with my time what I please), I wanted to use it wisely --for me that was in tracing that very energy back to the PLACE FROM WHICH IT CAME. Having no idea if there was such, but was ONLY interested in expending my energy in the direction of finding out FOR MYSELF.

My BASIC NEEDS(and even more than "basic",actually) had been taken care of up until then, so I saw no reason to doubt that wouldnt continue. Therefore, this didnt even enter into my mind consciously (In other words, of course my needs BASIC needs were being met bc here I was/am, still alive, fed, clothed, had a car, and even living in an affluent country!) So obviously, there was already this trust or knowing clearly in place without the conscious application of the principle setting the framework, and mustering up the emotional backing for it --it just was already naturally that way, u know?... And yes, even on an emotional level, (although I may not have articulated it as such back then bc it was like organic, natural or maybe I can go so far as to say 'instinctive')

--So, basically, what I'm saying is, I didnt have to first think about it and find a framework in which to apply the principle of "all is provided by Goddess/Mother Earth/God/Source" (or whatever term one might apply)" because my experience had already proven so, all the life, so far. I didnt have to think about that.

Basically, I am writing this to you, just to clarify the context in which I wrote the above that you quoted me writing; "Not only did it not work for me, it actually never resonated deep in my soul..." And in that, perhaps the beautiful excerpt you had provided from Keisha Crowther, Little Grandmother, even encompasses and then puts words to that instinctive recognition I speak of here, without me even having to consciously make note of it or apply it as a principle. It was/is like "a given" -- as this deepest heart-longing, burning desire for the pure truth of  REALITY, AS IS, took a hold of this life I call Dhyana. --And INDEED, has provided thus far... still.

And it is not that I wouldnt prefer to be "more healthy", "more wealthy", and have more than I do --I would like that -- but it is not my major focus or priority.  And the more I seem to go for the REAL GOLD, I often find that "the more"  comes to me in manifest reality, in such wonderful ways, and often surprises me and makes me joyful! I LIKE it all --and i like it A LOT, truly,  I really do, but it's different than needing it to be fufilled on the deepest part of me.     (And in the enviornment I was referring to, it seemed to me that most of those involved in this "creating your own reality", were doing so in attempts to get FUFILLED --to fill a void that intrinsically cannot be filled with any "thing",  but one's VERY ESSENCE SOUL/SELF/SOURCE. --you know? ..the "looking for love in all the wrong places" kind of thing). In a way, it was really heartbreaking to witness for all those years, especially because I watched my mother do so. -Yet, as an aside, over the last year or two, she has had some REAL Reality hits and is getting clearer).

ENUF SAID on that note.

Well, with Mercury in retrograde, perhaps we are not as clear or "getting" what the other is trying to share in the communication... and perhaps even I am not exactly clear about why you quoted me above and then posted the Little Grandmother excerpt after  --but I felt a little something was off in regards to how I must have come accross in my earlier post.
  Furthermore, I'm also not exactly clear about what EA state of evolution all this applies to or if this fits ok on this thread topic, but I just thought I would add this clarification to this thread anyhow. Thanks Linda for bearing with me here, and thanks all for your time.


Lovingly,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 03:19 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 03:20 AM »

In terms of manifestation…Like Linda said to a friend pray for money and the earth will provide…. This confuses me, I know so many people who do this and no money comes.  I work with homeless teens and they pray for food and shelter and it does not come.  

Not only did it not work for me, it actually never resonated deep in my soul.


Hi Pam, Dhyana, Heather, Stephen and Steve:

Asking Mother Earth for anything at all came from Keisha Crowther, Little Grandmother - and I felt her words described natural truths, and were in line with the EA philosophy. The reference to asking for dollars came from Keisha in that the earth has always provided us with food, shelter, warmth, etc. Here is an extract:

"You are the creator of your world. What you give your thoughts to, what you give your emotions to becomes your reality.  We start creating our reality.  If I'm negative and think of negative things, my world's going to be negative. But the other side tells us we can ask for anything we want, whether it be dollars, whether it be your spiritualness, ask for what you want. Ask the Great Everything for what you want, but remember the key is to remember that you have a great I Am.  You are just a spark that came from the great God and Goddess. Remember who you are. You have a greater self. Tell that greater self what you need, what you want and do it with as much emotion as possible, because your emotion is your connect to your great I am. If you ask for anything without any emotion it will not come. Your emotion is your great self. So when you use emotion, when you feel how great it would be to have this thing that you are wanting, then it starts pouring down upon you. Do not be negative. Stay in the positive. What you give your emotion and thought to becomes your reality."

"Let us become one tribe, the Tribe of Many Colours from all continents, because we are brothers and sisters. We have one mother: our Mother Earth. Our sacred beloved mother. She is your mother and she is mine, and that makes me your sister. I love you. You are my family. You are all my relatives. I love you. If you want to be in the tribe of many colours, just love......Just see all of us as children of great god and goddess. Love your Mother Earth, and let's love each other and take care of one another. I love you. I love all of you....."

I hope I haven't gone too off-topic, but it's beautiful to see natural truths such as the above expressed like this!  And especially if one is in the 'spiritual' condition, I think it's a beautiful thing to ask Mother Earth to help us with our needs.  


Hi Dhyana,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic.  The above post was directed to everyone on this thread. Your quote was merely used as a springboard to continue the discussion.  Cheesy 
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Dhyana
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2010, 03:39 AM »

Linda wrote:
Hi Dhyana,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic.  The above post was directed to everyone on this thread. Your quote was merely used as a springboard to continue the discussion."    
[/color]

AHA!... see Linda --just as I had suspected, after re-reading the thread and then adding that modification at the bottom regarding mercury in retrograde, hours later after posting that --
--perhaps then, I may have merely misunderstood you quoting me...

Again, with all my heart --"thanks for bearing with me!"...

Well, hope it was useful, at any rate..

Love and Gratitude,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 12:44 PM by Dhyana » Logged
stephen
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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2010, 05:55 AM »

Hi Linda,
When I wrote what you quoted above regarding "manifesting" ....

. . . . .

...Thanks Linda for bearing with me here, and thanks all for your time.
Lovingly,
Dhyana

Dhyana,

  Simply beautiful self-expression...

  Your Soul shines right through on that one!

May you be three times thrice blessed,
Stephen
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Eric
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 09:38 AM »

Dhyana,
Beauty Full... 
Eric   
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Eric
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 10:35 AM »

Hi All,

A couple of days ago I was sitting in a waiting room with my daughter and picked up a magazine to read. As I opened it, the first thing I saw was a quote by Viktor Frankl which has hung with me-"what is to give light must endure burning".

Thanks for sharing the light Dhyana with that post and also to all of you whose own fires have stoked such intelligent discussion and insight on the board.

Blessings,
Eric
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PamS
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2010, 02:01 PM »

Hi All,

well what I kinda think is that we are all spiritual and we have different life paths....  I always love the Indian story of the different aspects of god/goddess, we all have our hands on a different part of the elephant...  Being such a scorpio sometimes I think my part is the back end with the holes, but nevertheless, we are all sharing the different faces of god goddess.  

Linda I deeply respect your view point and do believe it is a deeply spiritual resonance in you and know that you are speaking a Natural truth.  In the last 2 weeks Grandmother energy has been in my dreams and in my waking life so I take to heart the words of Little Grandmother that you have passed on.   I think its hard for souls that have had to see and experience the wrathful side of the divine to feel connected to the lets be positive aspect of the divine.  As I have said manifestation is so vast.  I have always felt frustrated with new age and even astrological groups that speak of Nature but they only want the misty hillsides and fields of flowers part of nature.  Nature is a fire, earthquakes, windstorms, raging waterfalls, destruction … its all a part of the Earth.  That I know I have a deep deep connection to.  Part of me must know the earth will take care of me because of my ability to trust that when I do go into complex places I will come out of it.. That is one kind of faith...


I will be in a continuous questioning of the divine about those who have been hungry not only physically but spiritually who have asked and not received... I do feel like that is a very legitimate question for anyone in the spiritual realm... I personally am not starving either physically, emotionally or spiritually but boy I have in previous incarnations, I have compassion for those very difficult times.  

Stephan I have not read Ishmael, but I think it also has to to with Cain and Able, we all need to respect our differences…thank you for your generosity


Dhyana and Ellen, Im right with you sisters, keep on keeping on… Vulnerability and speaking your truth is most always the right thing to do...

Im out for the day, but I am sure more will resonate with this deep topic... thank you all for sharing and being here!

blessings,

pam
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 02:07 PM by PamS » Logged
mountainheather
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2010, 02:41 PM »

Wow, I've been away for a few days and have some catching up on this thread.

Here are some of my thoughts.
I think the manifesting trend as it is covered in the mainstream is a consesnsus phenomenon.  the spiritual stages are about aligning with God's will through us. so we may or may not have material prosperity depending on other things in our charts not just our evolutionary state. Remember the 1st spiritual is virgo where we are thrown back on ourselves.... a crisis of any variety; health, finances, relationships so we will take steps to improve them, and in so doing we start to feel aligned with doing good for others not just for our own benefit... thus aligning more closely with how the creator is... benevolent and giving.   
I also try to remember that my soul has been through these other states when I look at the surprising resistance to viewing our earth as alive. Consensus will believe the earth to be respected if they are told by a reliable source outside of themselves, we've all been there in consensus.  So now, we have science technology and the green machine CONSUMER products promoting this because this is how the information is best distributed to the masses, as a trend or a consumer product, and as an opportunity to "save" the earth... You don't have to worship earth as gaia to respect her  just remember where your food and water come from  because the scientist or The Gap tells you to... which still gets the job done, reducing consumption and pollution by the largest portion of the population, consensus and individuated. As  their evolution continues, the awareness of the earth as a living entity will be available to them.

Just some thoughts so far.  And Thank you Steve, I will start to intuit and remember what the stages look like if we were natural.  THank you ALL for this!  Heather 
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Elen
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2010, 06:14 PM »

Hi Linda
I just wanted to thank you for your post.  My sun is 4+ cap & my moon is 19+ taurus so I am thinking deeply about all of this. Survival has been a big thing on my mind lately. I have finally started reading Deva's book in earnest & I was struck by her statement that survival is a huge driving force of evolution.

Heather
Thank you for starting thiss thread.

Everyone else
Thank you for this wonderful dialogue.

Ellen
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mountainheather
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2010, 12:04 AM »

Hello all,
I was in such a rush of feeling and rushed for time when I read this thread last time I hadn't really digested  everyones comments...thank you for all the feedback...I am very excited to see how our collective intent to explore natural law will develop, may this endeavor be blessed with the divine light and awesome power of our mother earth.  Happy Mother's Day (the nurturing/nourishing principle in us all!!) Heather
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stephen
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2010, 10:52 AM »

Quote from: Pam
Stephan I have not read Ishmael, but I think it also has to to with Cain and Able, we all need to respect our differences…thank you for your generosity

Hi Pam,

  I just want to clarify the intent of my original posting to which you responded as above (thanks for your response).

  The book 'Ishmael' seems to me to show the effects of the transition as mentioned by JWG in the emboldened section of the quote copied below from the old message board.  The book seems to me to detail what could be called The Life of Humankind before and after the rise of distorted thinking.  It uses various myths, including a fresh look (from a gorilla's point of view) of the Adam/Eve  and the Cain/Abel myths, as well as asking the reader (through the agency of the narrator) to question their own assumptions and those myths which the reader lives under today.  One of our current myths that we are asked to question is as stated I believe by Linda of a friend of hers, in that anything old/ancient/primitive is not applicable to modern life (if I have misunderstood that posting, Linda, I apologize).
  I thought that clarity about my intention in sharing this resource was needed at this point.  I am not suggesting a literal belief in these myths, merely noting that they are used to provide an understanding of a period of history, and that understanding can then further the interested reader's comprehension of Natural Law, IMHO.

Quote
 we all need to respect our differences…

  Oh yes, I completely agree!

God'dess Bless,
Stephen


Quote from: JWG, Sunday 15-Oct-2000 07:45:21
8. the original guilt/ atonement dynamic that you refer too is born out of patriarchal times not the natural or 'matriarcal' times. again the patriarchal transition began around 6 500 b.c.e and took one thousand years to complete..in that timeframe men began to concieve of 'god' as something intrinsically 'perfect'....and the projections of moralities that followed. in essence it was the religions of judaism islam and christianity that were the primary vehicles thru which the guilt/ atonement dynamic began...and it was in this transitional time that ownership of land possessions ownership and 'paternity' leading to the patriarchal definition of 'marriage' began......this is when the progressive supression of natural laws also began with the resulting psychological distortions that this implies ,Jeffrey


« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 05:27 PM by stephen » Logged
PamS
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2010, 01:07 PM »

Hi Stephan,

Oh dear we all get confused with what each other means  Message boards are challenging at times...
...So much innuendo and not really knowing what each other is saying can bit a bit overwhelming for me at times.


Yes I think  I understood  what you meant.  The bit I know about the book is that it is a critiques of our assumptions of what has been perceived to be fact or real "god" myth.  The author uses Adam and Eve as well as Cain and Able myths and turns them around and shows the distortion of the myths?  Correct?   I think this is what I heard you say...

My note to you was my seeing your capacity to see many sides of something... Unlike the Cain and Able kill your brother/sister I saw you saying love your brother-sister-henceforth undoing the particharical distortion... If I was wrong so sorry....

thanks for the clarity...

pam
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