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Author Topic: Enlightenment in 1 lifetime?  (Read 6129 times)
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« Reply #15 on: Jun 11, 2012, 10:16 PM »

Hi Ari

We can say that there is a Source of manifested creation. Or a space from which all things ever arise. The natural laws- all aspects of reality- including astrology- are a part of this creation, all arise from this space. They are not "absolute" or the "only way". They can be destroyed, they can fall away too.

When I tune into a client from the level of soul, and connect with their evolutionary state, in combination with their chart, I am able to contextualize and understand SO MUCH about what's going on, and really provide meaningful guidance/perspective for them. This still blows me away time to time.

However I keep on thinking to myself "is any of this actually real? What if my deeply rooted, karmicly rooted belief in these laws as being 'how it must be' is keeping me and the world in a state of 'evolution'. What if I just stopped investing in these beliefs entirely?"

Beyond the phenomena of soul and the nature of soul as evolving- there is a space, an emptiness that doesn't change- from which all things have arisen. That emptiness is right here.

I totally think you are on the right track with this...  If we totally and completely realize this truth the entire evolutionary process is completed/transcended.  As previously mentioned, its a pretty tall order... But that doesn't mean its useless fantasy, just needs to be tailored with a realism.  Constant application of faith in/openness to such a principle creates the inner conditions necessary for its full manifestation.  Even an intellectual recognition of the possibility is the process of evolution occurring in you Smiley

I don't feel there is any way to see or know the totality of reality while in human form.  That is like a tiny minnow seeking to understand the totality of the oceans. 

Maybe it depends on how we understand being "in human form..."  Pretty much all the the time I have to agree with you.   However, I feel the source of one's awareness is deeper than an individual or any form a consciousness residesin.  When union with this source is fully realized, evolution is complete. The individual ceases to be an individual evolving... But amazingly this doesn't mean that the human form ceases... It means that what looks like an individual is manifestation of source/truth/wisdom/God, completely pure without residue of separatism.  It's not an individual consciousness evolving as before b/c there are no remaining separating or unifying desires.  There is only the deepest truth & goodness of God emanating through the form of a human body...  It seems like in this way it may be possible that an apparent individual can be like a tap into all awareness, embodied in human form, and without limitation.  

Jeffrey spoke and wrote many times that the nature of God itself is imperfect, is seeking to perfect itself - why would a perfect God create anything?  What would be the point?

The essence of astrology is "as above, so below", and observation and correlation.  I think these apply to your questions, also.  If we are created in the image of God/dess, and God/dess is imperfect, seeking to perfect itself, well, that is also how humans are wired.  So either we reflect that which exists on a vast cosmic level, or else we are projecting human qualities onto the vast universe. 

We have to believe something, as we need meaning in life to bother going on another day.  We may well, in the long run, discover we have been very wrong about many things.  None the less we still needed to believe them and act as we did, because we have to be doing something.  So there really is nothing else one can do.

Is the paradigm of "progressive evolution through time" the only paradigm? Can I absolutely know this for certain?

Perhaps an answer lies in the question: your question is an expression of uncertainty...  meaning that your paradigm is not the full actualization of truth within you...  in a sense the expression of uncertainty about your paradigm is an (possibly unconscious) expression of certainty that is more out there, meaning the is room for bigger paradigms

how can you know anything for absolute certain?  are you absolutely certain you will still be alive by the end of this day?  however, are the odds of your still being alive at the end of the day high enough that you'd be willing to place a bet that it is true?  you might lose. 

using observation and correlation we make our best choices and guesses on how things probably work.  what else can you do?  we pay attention to the feedback we get from life itself based on our best guesses.  if you get better information you refine your guesses - that is, attempt to self-improve.

I keep on wondering if my understanding/intuitive connection to the nature of evolution, states of evolution, the nature of soul- all things that are becoming more and more intuitive and real for me- ARE IN THE END actually just a positionalality that is limiting the direct experience of what ACTUALLY IS.

Ari, its been suggested to you several times (not by me) that you try asking fewer questions and simply act on what you already know.  In essence, live less in a Gemini way (gathering endless conflicting information) and more in an Aries way (take action on the instinctual urges you get, learning and refining from the reactions to your actions that naturally come back from life) - trial and error learning.

Let's assume what you said is true (not saying it is, just let's assume it is).  How would you change how you are approaching things if it was true?  If you don't have an answer to that, what is the value in asking the question?  Its just going to confuse you.  What difference does it make even if it is true?

All perspectives all positionalities limiting the truth of what is...  But cultivating evolving positionalities, you move closer and closer to the universality of truth and further from limiting positionalities. So they are very useful.  In the end there is nothing more than direct awareness of Truth... but if you throw away evolution, you have added another limitation to you ability to see it.  It seems to me that fully integrating awareness that any perspective limits direct awareness of Truth while fully utilizing the increasing benefit of evolving understanding is a powerful method, turning everything towards your one thing...

It goes back to the original question you asked that started this thread.  We have to go through what we have to go through.  Your desire to not make any mistakes, so to speak (wrong beliefs), is very similar to the desire to do it all in a single lifetime.

Its going to take as long as it takes, and you are going to look back and see that you made mistakes (that were unavoidable, as you only had part of the information).  There is no way to get out of that reality (that I can see).  Its just the way it is.  If it is that way for all humans (and it sure appears to be) then by definition that must be part of the design of being human.  yes?  Otherwise why does it affect every single human? 

I used to be really concerned about not making mistakes, for similar reasons.  I was sitting on my bed journaling one day when these words came out of my pen "Your constant need to know the outcome in advance keeps you separated from the mystery and the poetry of life".  That changed my life, over these years.  We are part of this mystery, whether we believe we are, whether we believe it even is a mystery, whether or not we want to be part of it.  Its just the way it is.  Part of coming to terms with the mystery is accepting there are facets of it we can not understand while we are in human form, no matter how much we ponder and yearn and question.  It comes down to that Virgo lesson, take one step at a time, and do the best you can.  You will at times make mistakes, you will at times fall short.  Get used to it, and let it be OK!

Wow what an awesome thread!

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« Reply #16 on: Jun 11, 2012, 11:35 PM »

Hello community,

I was wondering if this topic could be addressed here. It is taught in the Tibetan lineage that Milarepa achieved Vajradhara, which I understand to be the equivalent of third stage spiritual (though I may be completely wrong here) in 1 lifetime.

EA teaches that it can take hundreds or thousands of lifetimes for a soul to evolve from even one substage to the next. Therefore I was wondering what such a notion of "enlightenment in 1 lifetime" could mean.

It is clear to me that Milarepa had a very strong desire for complete liberation. I understand that desire is the bottom line determinant for the degree of evolution that any soul can experience...

... therefore another question comes up for me:
1. CAN a soul evolve through many stages in 1 lifetime? I intuit that most souls come into a particular life with a pre-established intention to only go "so far" (and thus picked all the circumstances ahead of time that would be conducive to it's evolutionary intentions). However, does the possibility exist, WITHIN an actual lifetime, for a soul to cultivate the desire to "go further" and actually achieve that?

Thank you so much,
Ari Moshe

Buddha taught according to the capacities & needs of disciples.  Very generally, BuddhaDharma can be divided into 3 paths according to one's interest and level of development.  The foundational level was taught according to the common persons perception of reality and the spiritual path is presented as occuring over a very long (maybe thousands of aeons, countless and countless lifetimes) and emphasis Karma and how to slowly develop.  The next level requires a much deeper understanding of the nature of reality (emptiness), and all the hardship of the foundational level with the added committment to responsibility for everyone's spiritual path... That is it requires a much bigger mind to hold the courage, diligence, confidence, and joy of putting everyone else's spiritual accomplishment first.  The trainee must also have a bigger mindset, more open mind, as the qualities of enlightenment are made more clear and begin to transcend some of the structure of the foundational vehicle.

The path of secret mantra (Vajrayana) requires extreme diligence and highly (spiritually) intelligent trainee's as one transcends cause & result or evolution...  The trainee uses the result of enlightenment of the path.  In this path there are numerous paths included with varying timeframes, but generally medium level practitioners can attain the result in 3 or 7 or some other similar number of lifetimes.  The highly dedicated and astute trainees can attain the state of Buddha within this very lifetime.   Of course, we don't really know exactly far these trainees have evolved in past lifetimes... at least enough to be able to connect with and recognize such a profound opportunity for spiritual growth. 

However, I don't think that it necessarily the case that everybody that encounters the swift path of mantra is in an especially high evolutionary stage.  Though many of the practitioners who achieve accomplishments have already evolved a lot spiritually in previous lives, it's not required.  This is because Vajrayana is extremely profound and involves specific skillful methods.  The methods work the same as the lower paths, but with deeper level of understanding of the subtleties of interdependence.  These subtleties are used to undercut the solidity of the trainee's stubborn views of reality.  They are said to be traversing all the same levels of development, but very quickly.  Instead of gradually cultivating & refining over limitless lifetimes they are putting themselves through the shock of all that development in just one lifetime.  But this is not easy to do and requires certain inner constitutions.  Enlightenment in 1 lifetime only works if the trainee is able to match their inner constitution with certain outer conditions in the right way (while not straying from the practice).  This is where the Guru comes in and why they are essential as (ideally) they can see individual's karmic propensities which are not apparent.  However, for the full potential to be realized there are many conditions that must occur on both the side of the Guru and the student.     

I tend to agree with you that most individuals have a preset notion of the degree of evolution they will undergo, but I also think it is possible to change that, maybe more difficult, but definitely possible.  In Tibet all 3 paths are merged into one for that very reason.  One can develop strong conviction in the value of spiritual development (countering the force of seperating desires, strengthing unifying desires), center one's purpose on altruism alone, and pursue the special tantric techniques which ripen the Buddha nature of mind. 

This is what the story of Milarepa is supposed to show us (I think)... Milarepa was a muderer and a black magician who realized that he had been doing very negative things, decided to change, dedicated himself and became Buddha.  If he, a murderer (of not just a few people, but almost a whole village), can do that... who can't?
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