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Author Topic: Pluto in Cap, the USA, the future of the world  (Read 396118 times)
ari moshe
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« Reply #15 on: Jul 21, 2010, 11:06 AM »

This morning Obama signed wall street reform- creating more regulations on wall street and banks so that the public isn't as easily tricked, and (in my words) it's harder for these big corporations to pursue evil selfish means.

What can we say, based on this chart and the transits, will happen on a political level? Rad pointed out that Capricorn naturally correlates to all structures- bridges, dams, highways, pipelines etc... It seems that while on a mass level the structures of our reality- the ones that have provided a foundation for our way of life (ie roads for cars to drive on)- are breaking up, there is also a very slow very gradual reform happening on the other Capricorn structure, the level of government. The reform seems to be a 3 steps forward 2 steps back in my observation- (ie little reforms that are somewhat helpful simultaneous to Obamas continued involvement in a way he doesn't believe in- and a very sad increase in number of deaths as a result of that).
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Elen
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« Reply #16 on: Jul 21, 2010, 03:57 PM »

Hi Wendy and All,

I just wanted to add my 2-cents to the list you began re: practical solutions.  (Bradley, I haven't read your post yet...)

First, I agree with you - Wendy - (if I read you correctly) that part of what needs to happen is the formation of new structures (Capricorn) and perhaps these in the forms of new types of Collectives (Uranus).  I see things happening all around.  SlowMoney is one example (I was so excited when I read about this!).  People with vision getting together to try to start to feel their way (would this be Aries?) towards concretizing their visions through actual organizational structures.  With all the cardinal, though, seems to me we'll be seeing a lot of 2 steps forward, 1 step back.  My brother attended a forum recently that brought a bunch of people together from the alternative energy community together.  The point of the forum was to ask the questions, you know, how do we get there from here?  And also to simply state what the obstacles are at this time.  These are just 2 examples.  Another is the local movement: buy local, CSA's (do I have those initials right?  I'm thinking of the movement in which local farmers deliver directly to the local residents), etc.  I think Deva's example of home schooling fits right into this: again, local control (in this case, family and small community control) of education - of what we actually learn.  It seems to me that it's a lot about taking back our power (are you the one who made this point?) and I agree with that point.  Part of me feels really excited about all this.  Yet at the same time it seems to me that, while the individuals are coming together to begin the process of building the new structures that we need, at the same time, I fear that multiple catastrophes will be occurring which perhaps in turn will bring these new structures into the mainstream....

Ellen
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Wendy
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« Reply #17 on: Jul 21, 2010, 06:22 PM »

Hello All,

Ellen:
I do believe many movements will be forming and moving into action, especially throughout Uranus' retrograde this winter and direct movement in the Spring (CSA's are the local farming communities), and the collective's motivation to get on board will be catalyzed by environmental changes, as well as, the stuff that has already happened.

Something I felt the other day about Oprah (I think someone mentioned her, maybe in the other post).  She is leaving primetime television and starting her own network.  I believe she is going to play a role in radicalizing the collective by providing a reliable and trustworthy media forum where real news can be shared and viewed.

I think she got a slap on the hand and decided she no longer wanted to participate in the muted deceit that most television adheres to.  So that's another way the collective can gain strength--granted this is a hunch, but it's a strong one. 
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Elen
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« Reply #18 on: Jul 22, 2010, 02:09 PM »

Hello All,

Ellen:
I do believe many movements will be forming and moving into action, especially throughout Uranus' retrograde this winter and direct movement in the Spring (CSA's are the local farming communities), and the collective's motivation to get on board will be catalyzed by environmental changes, as well as, the stuff that has already happened.

Something I felt the other day about Oprah (I think someone mentioned her, maybe in the other post).  She is leaving primetime television and starting her own network.  I believe she is going to play a role in radicalizing the collective by providing a reliable and trustworthy media forum where real news can be shared and viewed.

I think she got a slap on the hand and decided she no longer wanted to participate in the muted deceit that most television adheres to.  So that's another way the collective can gain strength--granted this is a hunch, but it's a strong one. 

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for your reply.  Interesting remarks about Oprah's role.  It'll be interesting to see how things play out there.

Peace,
Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #19 on: Jul 22, 2010, 02:31 PM »

Hi Bradley,

Just wanted to say thanks a million for your post.  Just nailed the whole deal - I thought. 


Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #20 on: Jul 23, 2010, 06:29 PM »

Hi All,

I thought this quote from the Dalai Lama on his facebook page fit in well with the conversation happening here:

"In the present circumstances, no one can afford to assume that someone else will solve their problems. Each one of us has a responsibility to help guide our global family in the right direction. Good wishes are not sufficient; we must become actively engaged."
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Louie
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« Reply #21 on: Jul 24, 2010, 10:13 AM »

Steve or Rad:

     Could you elaborate just a bit more on the chart being used by EA? I can understand the theory behind trying to get Pluto into the right house but I can see just as much validity to Pluto being in the 2nd house.......Americans being very into material possessions and very absorbed with security issues to the point of creating bogey men all over the place. The fact that the chart is slated for two in the morning is kinda interesting to me and there has to be some sort of story or rationale as to how and why that particular time? I would appreciate any additional information you may have as I look at these USA charts on a regular basis; thank you in advance

Louie
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ari moshe
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« Reply #22 on: Jul 24, 2010, 11:25 AM »

I'm interested in hearing what they have to say to. I will add what makes sense to me.

The Pluto sn in the 9th speaks so strongly to the meddling of the US in borders outside of itself. It has been profoundly invasive and dogmatic when it comes to asserting it's own sense of special destiny upon other peoples/nations. The sn ruled by Uranus in Gemini on the AC to me speaks to the strong individualistic "im going to do it my way- I don't care what you think" and also the creation of trauma for other nations (ruler of 9th house sn).

I can see the argument for Pluto in the second too- taking what is not theirs. However, the underlying philosophy/politics that is so bottom line in the US is not shown as clearly in the Sag rising chart.
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Bradley J
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« Reply #23 on: Jul 24, 2010, 03:49 PM »

All- thanks for response and continued postings.

In response to Steve's conclusion of the opening post:
 "Part of what we want to discuss is how to respond to this, how to adapt and change, what are useful strategies for living through these upcoming times."

I've been brainstorming for days specifically responses and strategies that are useful and relevant solely based on the evolutionary path - as the signature in the chart we are using speaks to.

Looking forward to posting this soon and continuing with this thread.

Blessings,
Bradley
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Rad
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« Reply #24 on: Jul 25, 2010, 09:54 AM »

Hi Louie,

 Beyond the history of the country itself that correlates perfectly to 2:10 am chart, the Moon itself, and the M.C. correlate through geodetics to Philadelphia. The tenth house of course correlates in general to the archetype of countries. The USA was born out rebellion to Great Britain: Aquarius. The 9th House Pluto with the S.Node in Aquarius in the 9th of course correlate with the USA being a nation of immigrants from other lands, and was born out of a need for religous rebellion itself. With the S.Node of Pluto in it's 8th House, along with Jupiters S.Node we can also see the obvious: that the country was also born out of the need to rebel against the 'taxation' from Great Britain. The original 'settlers' of the USA were of course of a 'religious' nature: 9th House Pluto, S.Node of the Moon is Aquarius in the 9th, and the S.Node of Saturn as well placed there.

 With the current transits to this chart, as mentioned by Steve and others, the following article by the U.S. Senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders, speaks to what is underway in the USA. And what is underway perfectly conforms to this chart.

 Rad

****************************************************************************

Here is the article by Bernie Sanders:

No To Oligarchy
Bernie Sanders
July 22, 2010 

   
The American people are hurting. As a result of the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street, millions of Americans have lost their jobs, homes, life savings and their ability to get a higher education. Today, some 22 percent of our children live in poverty, and millions more have become dependent on food stamps for their food.

Any Wall Street bailout must also impose tax increases for the wealthy, market reforms and address the needs of middle class Americans caught in the crunch. And while the Great Wall Street Recession has devastated the middle class, the truth is that working families have been experiencing a decline for decades. During the Bush years alone, from 2000-2008, median family income dropped by nearly $2,200 and millions lost their health insurance. Today, because of stagnating wages and higher costs for basic necessities, the average two-wage-earner family has less disposable income than a one-wage-earner family did a generation ago. The average American today is underpaid, overworked and stressed out as to what the future will bring for his or her children. For many, the American dream has become a nightmare.

But, not everybody is hurting. While the middle class disappears and poverty increases the wealthiest people in our country are not only doing extremely well, they are using their wealth and political power to protect and expand their very privileged status at the expense of everyone else. This upper-crust of extremely wealthy families are hell-bent on destroying the democratic vision of a strong middle-class which has made the United States the envy of the world. In its place they are determined to create an oligarchy in which a small number of families control the economic and political life of our country.

The 400 richest families in America, who saw their wealth increase by some $400 billion during the Bush years, have now accumulated $1.27 trillion in wealth. Four hundred families! During the last fifteen years, while these enormously rich people became much richer their effective tax rates were slashed almost in half. While the highest-paid 400 Americans had an average income of $345 million in 2007, as a result of Bush tax policy they now pay an effective tax rate of 16.6 percent, the lowest on record.

Last year, the top twenty-five hedge fund managers made a combined $25 billion but because of tax policy their lobbyists helped write, they pay a lower effective tax rate than many teachers, nurses and police officers. As a result of tax havens in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda and elsewhere, the wealthy and large corporations are evading some $100 billion a year in U.S. taxes. Warren Buffett, one of the richest people on earth, has often commented that he pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary.

But it's not just wealthy individuals who grotesquely manipulate the system for their benefit. It's the multinational corporations they own and control. In 2009, Exxon Mobil, the most profitable corporation in history made $19 billion in profits and not only paid no federal income tax—they actually received a $156 million refund from the government. In 2005, one out of every four large corporations in the United States paid no federal income taxes while earning $1.1 trillion in revenue.

But, perhaps the most outrageous tax break given to multi-millionaires and billionaires happened this January when the estate tax, established in 1916, was repealed for one year as a result of President Bush's 2001 tax legislation. This tax applies only to the wealthiest three-tenths of 1 percent of our population. This is what Teddy Roosevelt, a leading proponent of the estate tax, said in 1910. "The absence of effective state, and, especially, national restraint upon unfair money-getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power. The prime need is to change the conditions which enable these men to accumulate power which is not for the general welfare that they should hold or exercise.… Therefore, I believe in a…graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate." And that's what we've had for the last ninety-five years—until 2010.

Today, not content with huge tax breaks on their income; not content with massive corporate tax loopholes; not content with trade laws enabling them to outsource the jobs of millions of American workers to low-wage countries and not content with tax havens around the world, the ruling elite and their lobbyists are working feverishly to either eliminate the estate tax or substantially lower it. If they are successful at wiping out the estate tax, as they came close to doing in 2006 with every Republican but two voting to do, it would increase the national debt by over $1 trillion during a ten-year period. At a time when we already have a $13 trillion debt, enormous unmet needs and the highest level of wealth inequality in the industrialized world, it is simply obscene to provide more tax breaks to multi-millionaires and billionaires.

That is why I have introduced the Responsible Estate Tax Act (S.3533). This legislation would raise $318 billion over the next decade by establishing a graduated inheritance tax on estates over $3.5 million retroactive to this year. This bill ensures that the wealthiest 0.3 percent of Americans pays their fair share of estate taxes, while making sure that 99.7 percent of Americans never have to pay a dime when they lose a loved one. It also makes certain that the overwhelming majority of family farmers and small businesses never have to pay an estate tax.

This legislation must be passed because, with a $13 trillion national debt and huge unmet needs, we cannot afford more tax breaks for millionaire and billionaire families. But even more importantly, it must be passed because the United States must not become an oligarchy in which a handful of wealthy and powerful families control the destiny of our nation. Too many people, from the inception of this country, have struggled and died to maintain our democratic vision. We owe it to them and to our children to maintain it.


« Last Edit: Jul 25, 2010, 10:49 AM by Rad » Logged
Steve
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« Reply #25 on: Jul 25, 2010, 10:40 AM »

Hi All

First, I posted a corrected USA Pluto Return chart on Wendy's original message. I also added a synastry chart of the US Pluto return transits compared to the US natal chart.   You can see those here
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,268.msg3900.html#msg3900

Next, although not directly related, I was linked to an interesting video and a news article this morning that I wanted to share with people.   The video is a Native American speaking on prophecy of this coming time, which he says is now upon us.  I found it really helpful to see and hear of what is going on now through this other lens.  Towards the end he even says that what is starting to occur is necessary evolution.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cylfQtkDg

The second is a news article titled The Middle Class in America Is Radically Shrinking. Here Are the Stats to Prove it.  

I found it interesting reading this article after first watching the video.  The perspective in the video cast a whole other perspective on the kind of depressing information in the article.  

I will post more here soon, in response to things people have written.  I find the value of reading things like "The Middle Class in America Is Radically Shrinking", even though not fun, is to be aware of what is actually going on.  Our lives, and the lives of our children, are going to be radically different than how things have been in the past.  Letting that sink in, emotionally recognizing the truth of this and the implications it brings, is a good way to begin discussion on how we deal with all of this.  We need to shift many things - expectations and orientations.  The Native man said he sees it all as a good and necessary shift.  We can start with that perspective.  None the less its going to create emotional havoc for many people as these shifts get personal in many people's lives in a big way.  

---- Edit: Add:
Here is another article "After bailouts, new autoworkers make half as much as veterans in same plant" describing how old Chrysler workers make $28 an hour on the assembly line.  Side by side with them are new Chrysler workers doing the exact same job for $14 an hour.  It describes how the United Auto Workers union was one of the leading forces that helped factory workers make it into the American middle class, and how in the new realities it is unlikely that will ever happen again. 

quotes -
"The idea of the UAW and the steelworkers negotiating so that workers could make it into the middle class, of allowing them to make it as manufacturing workers -- that is all gone," Gary Chaison, professor of industrial relations at Clark University. "And it's difficult to see how they will be able to find their way back."

The two-tier agreement "effectively ends many of the principles established 70 years ago in the UAW's birth," Bill Parker, a negotiating committee leader, wrote in an unusual dissent. "For years, the UAW embodied industrial unionism and the gains of the New Deal. So goes the UAW, so goes the American middle class."

This needs to be considered in the context of what Rad said about the developing American "elite" class - the taxbreaks for the wealthy, etc.
------ end edit - add

By the way Bradley, your analysis was really great.  Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out.
Steve
« Last Edit: Jul 25, 2010, 04:31 PM by Steve » Logged

Linda
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« Reply #26 on: Jul 25, 2010, 08:14 PM »

Next, although not directly related, I was linked to an interesting video and a news article this morning that I wanted to share with people.   The video is a Native American speaking on prophecy of this coming time, which he says is now upon us.  I found it really helpful to see and hear of what is going on now through this other lens.  Towards the end he even says that what is starting to occur is necessary evolution.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cylfQtkDg


Thanks Steve,

In Part 3 of that series, the Native American speaks of Natural Law:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9piIziXU9RE
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Elen
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« Reply #27 on: Jul 25, 2010, 09:24 PM »

Steve & Linda,

Great links!  May as well put part 2 in there also.  Speaks of responsibility especially re: 7th generation principle. Seems appropriate for Pluto & NN in Cap, SN in Cancer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqfvUA2vRAM&feature=related

Ellen
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Louie
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« Reply #28 on: Jul 26, 2010, 09:17 AM »

Rad:

     Thank you for responding to my post and the fact that I live in Vermont (you did not know this) and you posted a speech by Bernie is an interesting example of syncronicity!

     I understand the EA reasoning behind the placements of Pluto and the nodes in the specific houses and I totally agree that it lines up quite well with the history of this country. The 2:13AM time on the chart though is very specific and a very unusual time to be signing any documentation, so it piques my curiosity as to how someone rectified it to the degree........they would have had enough wiggle room to get the same results that you are looking for within a few degrees but they settled on this specific chart.

     The Sabian symbol for 8 degrees Gemini is perfect for the nature of this chart......."Arroused workers surround a factory" Dane Rudhyar's explanation for this degree is very pertinent to the whole Pluto in Capricorn discussion so I will post it here for everyone's review:

     "We are dealing in this sequence of symbols with man's discovery of the new powers residing in his special contribution to the total organism of this planet Earth-his consciousness and agressive mind. The first stage dealt with oil, the typical form of energy which the modern mind has made available. Now we see in this new symbol a pictorial indication of what the use of this intelect-generated energy inevitably leads to: industrial unrest and violence. As man manages to rape the earth in order to demonstrate his power and intensify his pleasures and his sense of proud mastery, conflicts and disruptive processes are inevitably initiated."

Louie
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #29 on: Jul 27, 2010, 12:08 AM »

Thank you Steve for bringing this topic, and thanks to all who have posted in this thread. I have been reading what has been said, and many things you have mentioned apply to my country, Chile. I would say that things here are perhaps just a little worse in a sense: more imbalance between rich people and poor people (80% of the richness in this country belongs to a 3% of the people; Chile is in the 16th place in the world rating of imbalanced distribution of income, following Zambia and Niger); 19% of unemployment (though, the official number is always below 10%) and a very high rate of under-employment, etc. The same story about people in power not willing to give up their privileges despite the pauperization and environmental damage they have been creating for decades, and the type of society that this violence produce. Very likely, Chile is a little even more corrupt and doing business for big companies is easier in this country.

Further, Chilean economy is utterly dependent on exportations. About a 26% if its exportations are destined to the US. When the 1929 crisis occurred, the most affected economy in the World was Chile, according to a UN report. Exportations fell in a 75%, while importations fell in an 84%. The international buying capacity of the country was reduced 17 times.  Nowadays, Chilean economy is even more dependent on external commerce than it was in 1929. However, it has become progressively reliant on exportations to Asia, sp. China.

Inspired by this thread I am now trying to define which should be the “birthchart” for Chile, something I have not been able to determine up to date. The only chart I have known some Chilean astrologers use corresponds to 18 September 1810, 10 am. That day, a local council assumed the government of the country. This was a means to reject the authority of Spanish authorities established in Chile and Peru which ruled on this narrow piece of land. Though, the argument used was the direct obedience owed by Chilean people to the king of Spain who had been imprisoned by Napoleon. Thus, Chilean people still declared themselves, through this act, subject to an external authority. For this reason, it doesn’t look to me as a clear act of independence. Further, a declaration of Independence was made on 12 February 1818, 9 am (perhaps this chart is the most clearly affected by the 1929 transits). An apparent problem, though, is that the Spanish kept on trying to hold onto their power in Chile and there were a series of military battles within the territory of Chile which only ended on 5 April 1818, 2 pm: this date and time correspond to the chart that Campion gives to Chile in his Book of World Horoscopes.

I tend to think that perhaps the most relevant chart defining the current status of this country/society is the chart for the 11 September 1973, 11:52 am, when Chilean aircraft bombarded the House of Government to remove the legally elected president Allende. This event and all that followed for thousands of Chilean people is something that really shapes this country, defines what is socially possible and what is not, and strongly induces conformity.  That same day at 6 pm a curfew regulation entered in force, giving a new political form to what was happening. Also, there is the chart for the official “return of democracy” on 16 March 1990, 11:03 am, when the congress was installed once again after Pinochet’s dictatorship. This chart is quite convincing to me, having Pluto in the 7th Scorpio squaring the Moon’s nodes from the 3rd Leo to 9th Aquarius: heavy imbalance and inequality made possible through manipulation of truth. Indeed, inequality grew more than ever before in this country after “democracy” was recovered, and this was possible because socialist politicians who participated in government had been brainwashed in exile. Transition to democracy was negotiated with the military, and in this process it was established that the greatest danger for democracy was society. Thus, in general terms we had a change in the political crew and hence, in the style of government, though, the bottom line continued to be: make money for the rich ones, or stay aside.

Thanks again for this thread.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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