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Author Topic: Pluto in Cap, the USA, the future of the world  (Read 379110 times)
Rad
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« Reply #30 on: Jul 27, 2010, 09:33 AM »

Hi Louie,

 Thanks for sharing that about the Gemini Ascendant. When we consider that the Pluto transit is also progressively forming a transiting inconjunct to the U.S ascendant it becomes quite stunning in terms of the manipulation of information that the general population of the USA is subjected too. And, of course, this manipulation of information is manifesting from the Corporations, Pluto, themselves. Given that the mega Corporations own almost all forms of the media in the U.S.A. this capacity to manipulate the information for their own purposes is, to me, one of the gravest threats of all. When we consider that, generally speaking, the intellectual capacity of the American people is deeply stunted this capacity of the Corporate Media to manipulate the information 'presented' to the general population makes it easy to do so. The U.S. ascendant of course is ruled by Mercury retrograde in Cancer in the 3rd House, which is opposed by it's natal Pluto in Capricorn in the 9th. This, to me, is the core symbol for the general stupidity of the American populace.

 That Retrograde Mercury is ruled by the Moon of course Aquarius in the 10th, which is conjunct the U.S. natal Lucifer. When one studies the actual history of the media in the U.S. one can clearly see how it has been used by the 'powers that be', the Corporations and, before them, the oligarchy of the rich to propagandize the American populace for their own evil purposes. It is indeed one of the reasons, core reasons, that Abraham Lincoln implemented 'martial law' in order to suppress the media of that time that was trying to induce a behavioral contagion against him, and the existing government. Behavioral contagion in astrology correlates to Uranus, Aquarius, and the 11th House. Fast forwarding to now we can see with the Pluto transit forming progressive inconjuncts to the Asc, natal Uranus, the Uranus transit itself now in Aries in the 11th, squaring progressively the transiting Pluto, forming a progressive opposition to it's Saturn in Libra in the 5th, and, of course the squares to all the Cancer planets in the 2nd, this same phenomena occurring via the Corporate manufacturing of what is now called the 'Tea Party', and how the media that the Corporations control and own are promoting, presenting, this to the general populace again. This is, to me, a total manifestation of Evil.

  What is left of any semblance of a free media in the U.S. is the Internet. And, of course, the Internet correlates to Aquarius, Uranus, and the 11th House. In the U.S there has been, and is, a challenge to this free and equal instrument of information by, of course, the Corporations, and the oligarchy behind these Corporations. In the U.S. I think this is being called 'net neutrality'. Keep an eye on the transit of Pluto and Uranus as the Corporations attempt to remove any form of the media that they can not control and manipulate so that their agendas can manifest. This danger can not be overly stated. Not only to the country itself, but the consequences to the rest of the world.


God Bless, Rad

 
« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2010, 01:04 PM by Rad » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #31 on: Jul 27, 2010, 09:41 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

 Thanks for sharing all that information about your country. It is very enlightening, and of course reflects the general reality that is happening all over the world now. I do have this question to ask you: was Allende a socialist ? And, if so, what kinds of policies was he trying to implement ? And how much do the people of Chile remember the role of the U.S.A. at that time of removing and killing him ? That was when Nixon was the president of the U.S.A., and his Secretary of State was Henry Kissinger.

God Bless, Rad
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Steve
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« Reply #32 on: Jul 27, 2010, 11:06 AM »

Hi Rad

From Wikipedia:
Salvador Isabelino del Sagrado Corazón de Jesús Allende Gossens (June 26, 1908 – September 11, 1973) was a Chilean physician and is generally considered the first democratically elected Marxist to become president of a country in the Americas.

Allende's involvement in Chilean political life spanned a period of nearly forty years. As a member of the Socialist Party, he was a senator, deputy and cabinet minister. He unsuccessfully ran for the presidency in the 1952, 1958, and 1964 elections. In 1970, he won the presidency in a close three-way race.

He adopted the policy of nationalization of industries and collectivization. His policy of collectivization resulted in expropriation of lands and crop production dropped, amidst strikes by the far-right Patria y Libertad and CIA opposition under the Nixon administration. Protests were held in Chile against Allende's rule. The Supreme Court criticized Allende for subordination of the judicial system to serve his own political needs and the Chamber of Deputies requested the military to restore laws in Chile. After this request by the Chamber of Deputies, General Augusto Pinochet deposed Allende in a coup d'état on September 11, 1973 and this ended the Popular Unity government. During the air raids and ground attacks that preceded the coup, Allende gave his last speech where he vowed to stay in the presidential palace. The same day, Allende committed suicide.
=========
So at the same time that US troops were in Viet Nam, supposedly fighting for the right of the people there to have the government that they wanted, the USA secretly backed a coup in Chile to overthrow a lawfully elected government because that government did not believe in private property and corporations and was trying to help the poor and landless people in Chile where, as Gonzalo said,  80% of the land was owned by 3% of the people.
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Rad
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« Reply #33 on: Jul 27, 2010, 12:56 PM »

Hi Steve,

 Thanks for providing that information, especially about the land being held by less than 3% of the people. What is also incredible to me, from a world point of view about land 'ownership', is that, if I remember correctly, is that of all the land 'owned' on this planet less than 1% is held by women ! Truly staggering to contemplate.

God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2010, 01:06 PM by Rad » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #34 on: Jul 28, 2010, 01:25 AM »

Thank you Rad and Steve

was Allende a socialist ?

Yes, Allende (born in Valparaiso, Chile, the 26 June 1908, at 5:50 am) was a real socialist and an idealist. He was Marxist though not Leninist. He was a truly humanist and humanitarian Soul, and a very emotional man. I think he may be the only social leader in Chilean political history who did not betray the people who supported him. His Pluto is in the 1st House Gemini is conjunct the NN in the 1st House Cancer, which is also conjunct a stellium of planets in Cancer: the Sun, Neptune, Mercury rx, Venus rx and Mars. The Moon is in the 12th House, inconjunct the South Node. The South Node is in the 7th House in Capricorn, conjunct Uranus rx also in Capricorn in the 7th House. Saturn is in the 10th House in Aries, sextile the Moon, and squaring the nodal axis. He was a true leader who honored his promises to the point of giving his own life to show it was possible to create another type of society; or that it was possible to believe in such utopia.

what kinds of policies was he trying to implement ?

His program proposed “socialism in freedom” as opposed to a “dictatorship of the proletariat” of sovietic fashion. Some measures he adopted included rising the minimum salaries, control over prices of products of first necessity, promotion of internal development, ie. industrialization of the country (as opposed to development based mostly on external commerce which has prevailed in Chilean history). He was a doctor and (like Michelle Bachelet) did a lot for the betterment of public health and the condition of children, including providing health insurance coverage for everyone. He worked for this purpose since 1939 as Health Minister. His program considered implementing three types of property: social property, private property and a “combined property”, where the State owned a part of the shares of private companies. Social property could be increased by means of expropriation by law of companies considered of social relevance. He subdivided the large estate property to promote development of agriculture. Before that, most of the useful land was owned by a few families. In order to sustain his program and to increase the internal budget, he recovered the greatest copper mines in Chile, which were owned by US companies. Copper was called “the salary of Chile”, though, all the profits originated in this activity belonged to this type of companies and all the copper, and the money from copper were simply taken away from Chile. The agreements in force with these companies implied that the value of all the investments made for exploitation had to be reimbursed for expropriation to take place. Allende simply considered that all such investments had been sufficiently paid with the enormous benefits these companies had already produced for themselves. A more than fair decision, from my point of view. This measure was supported by the congress. Also, Allende’s government was a great time for development of culture and arts. It was like a three years happy party for many people. Of course, there were people who did not want to join the party. Some of them had lost their banks, or their large estate properties of many thousands of acres. They were disappointed by the outcomes of democracy. Most of the said reforms were simply reversed by the military (or by the new socialists or christian democrats who helped in the transition).

Allende did not need to kill or torture anybody to carry out his program. This is a very important difference with Pinochet, who killed several thousands of people, tortured many more, etc.

From my personal point of view, a reasonable critic about Allende is that, despite his humanism, he did not have a totally consistent position excluding the use of “revolutionary violence” (his Mars in Cancer in the 2nd House opposes Uranus rx in Capricorn in the 7th House; Mars rules the 11th House and is ruled by the 12th House Moon, in Gemini, which is semi-square Mars). A famous picture shows him holding a machine-gun that Fidel Castro gave him as a present. This created some confusion among certain groups of his followers, and a relative fear in other people. This fear was amplified by propaganda. Anyway, nobody had serious weapons in Chile except the military (or Allende who owned the said machine-gun).

I believe that Allende did not commit suicide. I have spoken about this with Juan Guzmán, the ex-judge who prosecuted Pinochet. My wife and I have worked with him for some years, and he has told us that he has reviewed all the existing evidence about what happened that day and has examined every witness. He is sure that Allende was killed by the military.

It should be remembered that six months before the putsch, Allende’s group of parties had obtained a 43,9% of suffrages in the elections for representatives, this meaning that, despite that the internal crisis that was being promoted to create collective instability, Allende still had a very strong democratic support.

And how much do the people of Chile remember the role of the U.S.A. at that time of removing and killing him ?

I would say that not many people knew at that time of the US intervention to produce the putsch that placed Pinochet in power. A Chilean lawyer and poet caller Armando Uribe spoke about this fact as early as 1974, and has published evidence along the years, including the documents that Peter Kornbluh (a Director of the US National Security Archive) produced revealing the role played by the CIA. I think many people in Chile know about this currently. However, most people operate with a very short term memory and, further, tend to remember what they are told to remember. Many people still complain about having to queue to buy a chicken during the last days of Allende’s government. They forget that nowadays they have to queue for everything.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Elen
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« Reply #35 on: Jul 28, 2010, 06:02 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

Thanks for the clarification re: Allende and suicide.  I don't know a ton bu I was surprised to read that this is how it is understood he died.  I had always understood that he was killed by the military during the coup.  The latter fits more with who he seems to have been.  Suicide just doesn't seem consistent.

Peace,
Ellen

PS Perhaps it would be interesting to look at his chart (perhaps on another thread...).  I looked him up on astrodatabank but didn't see his info listed.  Surprising.  Anyway, no time to look into it now.  If anyone has his birth info, it would be interesting to look at.  Perhaps we could continue the discussion about evolutionary stages using Allende as our example.... ?
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2010, 06:09 AM by Ellen » Logged
Bradley J
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« Reply #36 on: Jul 29, 2010, 02:09 PM »

Strategies for the People of the USA:  Approaching the Pluto Return

This post starts with a series of quotes from earlier in this thread. 

Steve -
“Now, the natural time for all this is pretty much over – that would be the evolutionary intent, to return to the natural principles of caring sharing inclusion, the strong taking care of the weak, etc.  Obviously that is not the main direction things are going, quite the opposite in fact, with the strong preying on the weak,

Rad -
 “If one simply looks that the transits that occurred during the Great Depression one sees of course that the Pluto transit then was in Cancer in the 2nd house and moving across those Cancer planets,..."

Deva -
 “I was thinking about the progressive break down of our current social structure (transiting Pluto in Capricorn) and how this is impacting the family environment, especially regarding the current education system (Transiting nodal axis squaring saturn in Libra/5th house-South Node in cancer conjunct the Sun and Jupiter in Cancer in the 2nd house). I know that more and more teachers are being laid off, and that progressively the education system is deteriorating because of lack of funding, and that opportunities of higher eduction are only truly available to those who are wealthy (Saturn in Libra in the 5th house reflecting the inequality of the current social system in the U.S-only benifiting the wealthy).
      The point within this is that is seems to me that families are going to have to take charge of the situation and provide home schooling for their children to make up for what is not being taught in school at this point...”

and, also from Deva  -
 “In other words, by modeling natural principles and laws in the family environment this can become a model that impacts how our society is structured. All of these changes are coming about because of the deterioration of the social structure and evolutionary necessity to change the current social structure by aligning with natural laws (transiting south Node conjuncut the Sun and Jupiter square saturn in Libra in the 5th house).”

Ari moshe -
 “The evolutionary focus on self sufficiency by focusing on life within the borders is so clear. This entire country has developed through the creation of trauma for others cultures and overly meddling outside of itself.

The evolutionary necessity of this organism called the USA seems to be to get off it's high horse and embrace the diversity of ways, to become less concerned with it's elevated vision and focus more on taking care of itself, on including other point of views and internalizing those views in a way that nurtures something truly nourishing and sustainable. (nn in leo in 3rd, ruled by Sun in Cancer in second).”


I brought in Rad’s quote regarding the pluto 2nd house transit of the great depression because this time forced the USA, out of necessity, to learn to live within it’s own limits and means, to survive with very little.  This is the foundation of the strategies that I see our USA chart telling us.

I see the pluto polarity point to have the potential to be more than a symbol for the stupidity of the masses within this nation...I’m sure we all do...and hope this will manifest when we see (mercury retrograde cancer 3rd) the people of this country having a great curiosity and questioning about who they are and what they identify with.  As Steve pointed out (and others and is so obvious), what we see is the exact opposite of this - at least the mainstream culture in the country.  The patriarchal “male model” in the american culture is one of great self confidence where no one would dare question his decision.  Thus, we see an inner fear of actually questioning our own actions.  Why?  For one, we lack the role modeling as a culture.  Second, to survive in the capitalistic society, one needs to dawn the aire confidence.  Three, the deeply embedded patriarchal culture has suppressed for centuries the voice that questions a man’s authority and decision.  Four, the oligarchy is controlling the population from even beginning such an inner questioning process by a. extensive prison system for “crazy” questioning citizens and b. total control of the media.  Five,.....

So, I do wish to get to the strategies, yet wanted to focus a bit more on the pluto polarity point first.  Relative to the leo 3rd north node, the purpose we have should be to question everything.  To be secure enough to allow this process to occur.  In natural communication, there is always a loop of question and feedback, a process in which questioning means involvement and participation - a commitment to communicate and discover truth and see other perspectives.  Being in Leo, an ideal leadership in this nation would see a healthy questioning of states to national and national to states, and on and on - questions that reveal real information about the reality of the nation and the people in it.  For example, imagine if we saw the president give a national address in which s/he were presenting information about the current education system and asking the questions about how the imbalances could be changed.  Or by presenting information about another nation or culture and, thru contrast and comparison, asking questions on how we could improve ours.  Sounds kinda unheard of - and, as pointed out politicians do not stick their necks out because of the lobbyist money from corporate america and the current oligarchy.

So, in a nations chart, the moon, 4th, cancer correlates with the people - is that right?  Going off of this and coming to the “how can we actualize the north node” we, again, have sun cancer 2nd, near jupiter venus and the north node of each all cancer second.  This leads me to think that the evolution of the nation will start with the people, the citizens, and not it’s leaders.

Here is my breakdown of how we can evolve:  By the people sharing(venus cancer relative to saturn libra 5th) knowledge of natural ways to survive and becoming sustainable local, regional communities. (jupiter cancer second).  Sustainability locally and nurturing ourselves.  Keeping our resouces in our homeland.  This symbolism makes me think that we need to internalize ourselves to be able to do this.  Keep all our jobs, resources in our homeland.  If the USA did as Japan once did, and really became a self sufficient peoples, we would be better off...in my own opinion after reading this chart- Yes. 
Recently, due to the growth of BDS’s call for an international boycott on Israel, I’ve heard people say  “Why, if we are going to do that, we should boycott the USA.”  Certainly, the amount of money USA spends on Israeli military alone could nurture our own people so much more.  Granted, a global boycott of the USA would send us into a downward spiral and unfortunately the lack of the many would increase for a period of time.  Yet, it is also true that this would be the type of thing that would force us into our evolutionary path.   
What has happened in a relatively short time is, of course, a loss of knowledge of the “old ways” or the ‘natural ways’ of living.  So, for the people to catalyze the evolutionary path we would be sharing knowledge (venus jupiter) and actually identify our purpose(nn ruler sun) to do so to be self sustaining communities as much as possible.  Relative to that saturn libra 5th, we see our struggle to share and have equality - and yet it is our karma to learn how to do this as a people (this relative to nn in leo)  The structure of isolated housing and land ownership, the controls  and definitions of reality passed down to us from the past of patriarchal reality, have set this up as a real struggle for us.  Do we all need our own lawn mower?  Do we need to mow the lawn?  If we were to increase the education around the natural ways, have information available to the people, we could quicken the connection to the crisis we have the unsustainable lifestyle we’ve adopted.  The colony collapse of our honey bees, for example is a serious issue.  Would having more local flowers help this?  Increasing the non-colonizing bee populations(like mason bees)?  There are so many simple natural ways which we can live sustainable and share and nurture each other.  We, collectively, lost a lot of this knowledge. 
Yet, individuals in our communities know how to make cheese, use tools, spin yarn, knit, sew, weave, create water catchment, compost, garden, can food, dry food, smoke food, ferment food, harvest wildcrafted herbs and mushrooms and prepare them for storage and medicine.  All these things are natural ways to survive and what we need to do is identify our purpose with sharing the knowledge of these ways with each other ( nn leo -->sun cancer second with the venus jupiter and saturn squaring sun from libra 5th)
In my own community, there is an organization - Sustainable South Sound - which along with the local co-op, offers and organizes these types of classes and regularly offers the classes(jupiter/jupiter nn conjunct sun cancer 2nd) for free to the community.  Another group, the Gleaners Coalition, is working to secure any unused parts of the harvest (cancer 2nd) and bring this food to those in need thru the local foodbank.  All this fits the symbols of evolution and does give me hope. 
This brings up a major other issue(cancer 2nd) homes vs. homelessness.  In the land ownership paradigm this is a major struggle and we, as a people need to provide homes for our citizens to evolve.  This is where natural ways of living - communal/community vs. nuclear families, also come into this again.  We need our people to be able to survive (2nd) on less money/resources.  One way to decrease the need for resources is increase the population density relative to # people living on a “lot”.  Now, we see this lesson being forced onto us - out of desperation and foreclosures, people are moving back to be with their families - joining together in a non-nuclear family way just to survive.  Again, a classic example of the evolutionary necessity of the current circumstances the people of the nation face.  Because we are, more and more, ‘forced’ into this lifestyle change to survive, we become, collectively, more aware and questioning of the current system and how much it is helping us survive.  This may spark the needed “question everything” identity which the media portrays as only a minority of the population.
Saturn - structures - libra - sharing and equality(or extremes of) and 5th our purpose - again, I think I mentioned this before - share networks.  We can create more and more localized share networks to assist each other to survive the times ahead.  Sharing of tools, information and education, food, housing, etc.  These networks would help us continue to evolve beyond the struggle of living in isolation.  “I want to save the world but I don’t even know my neighbors” syndrome will hopefully become a thing of the past.  As a nation, we all carry deep fear and mistrust of sharing resources because of the past(sn pluto 8th in cardinal cross) - I am not saying we should stop using discretion with our choices, but clearly we, as a people need to learn to share to heal our communities ( saturn conjunct juno opposing chiron aries 11th).  Share the knowledge of natural ways of living.
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Steve
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« Reply #37 on: Jul 31, 2010, 12:21 AM »

Hi all

Tonight I found an excellent new piece by one of my favorites, New York Times columnist Bob Herbert.
The full piece is here http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/opinion/31herbert.html  I've pasted it all in to save time.

This perfectly describes what some of us have been saying here about the establishment of a US class of super-elites, and the beginning of a permanent underclass growing out of what has been the US middle class.  This is so shocking, and so foreign to the way Americans have viewed what the United States is about, life-long, that the majority of Americans are in denial that this is even occurring.  The description is seen by most as outside the realm of what we consider possible as "reality".  Yet as Bob Herbert clearly points out, it is occurring.  With Pluto in Capricorn for years to come, the impulse will keep growing for a long time. 

With these permanent changes in the inherent structure of the United States growing, we can have more discussion on the suggestions Bradley wrote about the other day.
Steve

A Sin and a Shame
By BOB HERBERT
Published: July 30, 2010

The treatment of workers by American corporations has been worse — far more treacherous — than most of the population realizes. There was no need for so many men and women to be forced out of their jobs in the downturn known as the great recession.

Many of those workers were cashiered for no reason other than outright greed by corporate managers. And that cruel, irresponsible, shortsighted policy has resulted in widespread human suffering and is doing great harm to the economy.

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” said Andrew Sum, an economics professor and director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University in Boston. “Not only did they throw all these people off the payrolls, they also cut back on the hours of the people who stayed on the job.”

As Professor Sum studied the data coming in from the recession, he realized that the carnage that occurred in the workplace was out of proportion to the economic hit that corporations were taking.
While no one questions the severity of the downturn — the worst of the entire post-World War II period — the economic data show that workers to a great extent were shamefully exploited.

The recession officially started in December 2007. From the fourth quarter of 2007 to the fourth quarter of 2009, real aggregate output in the U.S., as measured by the gross domestic product, fell by about 2.5 percent. But employers cut their payrolls by 6 percent.

In many cases, bosses told panicked workers who were still on the job that they had to take pay cuts or cuts in hours, or both. And raises were out of the question. The staggering job losses and stagnant wages are central reasons why any real recovery has been so difficult.

“They threw out far more workers and hours than they lost output,” said Professor Sum. “Here’s what happened: At the end of the fourth quarter in 2008, you see corporate profits begin to really take off, and they grow by the time you get to the first quarter of 2010 by $572 billion. And over that same time period, wage and salary payments go down by $122 billion.”

That kind of disconnect, said Mr. Sum, had never been seen before in all the decades since World War II.


In short, the corporations are making out like bandits. Now they’re sitting on mountains of cash and they still are not interested in hiring to any significant degree, or strengthening workers’ paychecks.

Productivity tells the story. Increases in the productivity of American workers are supposed to go hand in hand with improvements in their standard of living. That’s how capitalism is supposed to work. That’s how the economic pie expands, and we’re all supposed to have a fair share of that expansion.

Corporations have now said the hell with that. Economists believe the nation may have emerged, technically, from the recession early in the summer of 2009. As Professor Sum writes in a new study for the labor market center, this period of economic recovery “has seen the most lopsided gains in corporate profits relative to real wages and salaries in our history.”

Worker productivity has increased dramatically, but the workers themselves have seen no gains from their increased production. It has all gone to corporate profits. This is unprecedented in the postwar years, and it is wrong.

Having taken everything for themselves, the corporations are so awash in cash they don’t know what to do with it all. Citing a recent article from Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Professor Sum noted that in July cash at the nation’s nonfinancial corporations stood at $1.84 trillion, a 27 percent increase over early 2007. Moody’s has pointed out that as a percent of total company assets, cash has reached a level not seen in the past half-century.

Executives are delighted with this ill-gotten bonanza. Charles D. McLane Jr. is the chief financial officer of Alcoa, which recently experienced a turnaround in profits and a 22 percent increase in revenue. As The Times reported this week, Mr. McLane assured investors that his company was in no hurry to bring back 37,000 workers who were let go since 2008. The plan is to minimize rehires wherever possible, he said, adding, “We’re not only holding head-count levels, but are also driving restructuring this quarter that will result in further reductions.”

There can be no robust recovery as long as corporations are intent on keeping idle workers sidelined and squeezing the pay of those on the job.

It doesn’t have to be this way. Germany and Japan, because of a combination of government and corporate policies, suffered far less worker dislocation in the recession than the U.S. Until we begin to value our workers, and understand the critical importance of employment to a thriving economy, we will continue to see our standards of living decline.
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Rad
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« Reply #38 on: Jul 31, 2010, 09:50 AM »

What this article by Herbert is really saying is that the Corporations have a 'plan' to keep the unemployment rate in the U.S. somewhere between 10 to 12 percent. And the intention of this plan is to keep Americans competing for the same job so that they not only end up with the best employee, but get that employee to work for less so that the profits of the Corporation can be as much as they can be.

Within this it is important to remember that the U.S. government gives tax breaks to Corporations who relocate their headquarters to other countries, and tax breaks to corporations that 'outsource' their jobs to other countries as well. Last year alone that caused 4 million jobs in the U.S. to go overseas. 4 million. All this at the same time that the Corporations are buying, like stocks, U.S. Senators and Congressmen, and the U.S. 'Supreme' Court has decided that Corporations are really individuals so that they can 'contribute' to politicians campaigns without any restrictions.

As I said before this all adds up to the USA being on the road to straight out fascism. A country of self-appointed Zarathustras that have created indentured servants called the vast majority of the American people.

Rad
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gruff
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« Reply #39 on: Jul 31, 2010, 11:44 AM »

This is what drives me crazy about Astrology. Their's and others hijacking the word Humanitarian. What you are describing is not Humanitarian at all. Anti-Humanitarian actually. And what can a Corporation do to force you to do anything? They do not have any power except persuasion. The Govt on the other hand, has the power to hold a pistol to your head and say obey. Anyway, as an infrequent poster in here I hope this article brings balance back into the discussion. Aquarian energies are positive when we allow others the freedoms we enjoy ourselves. The article.

The Humanitarian with the Guillotine

By Isabel Paterson

If the primary objective of the philanthropist, his justification for living, is to help others, his ultimate good requires that others shall be in want. His happiness is the obverse of their misery. If he wishes to help “humanity,” the whole of humanity must be in need. The humanitarian wishes to be a prime mover in the lives of others. He cannot admit either the divine or the natural order, by which men have the power to help themselves. The humanitarian puts himself in the place of God.

But he is confronted by two awkward facts; first, that the competent do not need his assistance; and second, that the majority of people, if unperverted, positively do not want to be “done good” by the humanitarian. When it is said that everyone should live primarily for others, what is the specific course to be pursued? Is each person to do exactly what any other person wants him to do, without limits or reservations? and only what others want him to do? What if various persons make conflicting demands? The scheme is impracticable. Perhaps then he is to do only what is actually “good” for others. But will those others know what is good for them? No, that is ruled out by the same difficulty. Then shall A do what he thinks is good for B, and B do what he thinks is good for A? Or shall A accept only what he thinks is good for B, and vice versa? But that is absurd. Of course what the humanitarian actually proposes is that he shall do what he thinks is good for everybody. It is at this point that the humanitarian sets up the guillotine.

What kind of world does the humanitarian contemplate as affording him full scope? It could only be a world filled with bread-lines and hospitals, in which nobody retained the natural power of a human being to help himself or to resist having things done to him. And that is precisely the world that the humanitarian arranges when he gets his way. When a humanitarian wishes to see to it that everyone has a quart of milk, it is evident that he hasn’t got the milk, and cannot produce it himself, or why should he be merely wishing? Further, if he did have a sufficient quantity of milk to bestow a quart on everyone, as long as his proposed beneficiaries can and do produce milk for themselves, they would say no, thank you. Then how is the humanitarian to contrive that he shall have all the milk to distribute, and that everyone else shall be in want of milk?

There is only one way, and that is by the use of the political power in its fullest extension. Hence the humanitarian feels the utmost gratification when he visits or hears of a country in which everyone is restricted to ration cards. Where subsistence is doled out, the desideratum has been achieved, of general want and a superior power to “relieve” it. The humanitarian in theory is the terrorist in action.

The good people give him the power he demands because they have accepted his false premise. The advance of science lent it a specious plausibility, with the increase in production. Since there is enough for everybody, why cannot the “needy” be provided for first, and the question thus disposed of permanently?

At this point it is asked, how are you to define the “needy,” and from what source and by what power is provision to be made for them, kind-hearted persons may exclaim indignantly: “This is quibbling; narrow the definition to the very limit, but at the irreducible minimum you cannot deny that a man who is hungry, ill-clad, and without shelter is needy. The source of relief can only be the means of those who are not in such need. The power already exists; if there can be a right to tax people for armies, navies, local police, road-making, or any other imaginable purpose, surely there must be a prior right to tax people for the preservation of life itself.”


Actually a snippet from a 1043 book named The God and the Machine.
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Rad
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« Reply #40 on: Jul 31, 2010, 12:50 PM »

Gruff,

 I will leave your 'posting' up for now only so that others can see the kind of 'gibberish' that, of itself, allows for white to become black, up becomes down, etc, etc. It has zero to do with actual reality as it is. This thread is about actual reality, not gibberish. This message board is about Evolutionary Astrology in general, and this thread about the nature of the symbols that correlate with the actual reality of the USA, and the world as reflected in the actual transits of the planets. What you posted has nothing to do with any of this. The gibberish that you posted is simply a statement of your own opinion about the nature of world as you see it. That's fine, it's your life and reality, but from now on keep that to yourself. If you persist is posting more of this gibberish it will be deleted, and you will be banned from this site.

Rad
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Steve
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« Reply #41 on: Jul 31, 2010, 01:34 PM »

Gruff

To add a few words to what Rad said:

1)  apparently the word "humanitarian" set you off.  I checked and the word was used one time on a page that has thousands of words on it.  The article you posted was about the single word humanitarian.   If we take the word humanitarian off our page altogether, nothing in that article or anything else you said refutes anything people said elsewhere on the page.

2)  You said "what can a Corporation do to force you to do anything? They do not have any power except persuasion."  

in 5 minutes I came up with the following, for starters:
- refuse to sell you health insurance because of pre-existing conditions
- cancel your health insurance after you've paid premiums for 20 years and had a heart attack because 20 years ago you left off your initial application that you went to the doctor when you were 15 to be treated for acne
- as stated in Herbert's article, lay you off for no reason other than they want to make more money.  Since paying the mortage on your highly bloated house price (the mortgage sold to you on unfair terms by another corporation during a housing bubble that your tax dollars have since bailed out) requires the income from your corporate job, you are now unable to pay your mortgage.  Since no other corporation is hiring either, you are now unemployed and shortly to be foreclosed.
- if you are fortunate and did not get laid off, you are now told there will be cutbacks, expectations of unpaid overtime, no raises, and, you are frequently reminded, that if you don't like the terms of your employment, there are lines of people filling in applications who will happily take your job.
- pour a couple of hundred thousand barrels of oil a day into the ocean for 3 months
- spill a million gallons of oil in a waterway in michigan
- sell you lousy investments highly recommended by their "specialists" that turn to crap and reduce the value of your retirement fund by 30 to 70 percent.
- foreclose on the wrong house and throw you out on the street, when they intended to foreclose your neighbor.  requiring you to spend thousands (that you may not have) on an attorney trying to get your own house, on which you are on time with all payments, back.

====
following added later:
- New Wall Street Journal article - "The New Credit-Card Tricks - Just months after historic legislation banned certain billing practices, card issuers have dreamed up new ones designed to trip up consumers."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704895004575395823497473064.html
- Through their ownership of majority of mainstream media in the US, the majority of people are "persuaded" to accept the corporate view of reality (that is, what corporations want people to believe is true) as its the only one presented unless the person actively researches alternate perspectives on the internet, watches foreign TV news, etc. which the majority of people never do.  In the corporate view of reality painted on TV and newspapers/magazines, everything corporations do is basically wonderful, anything progressives or whistleblowers want or do expose less than wonderful parts of what corporations do, or suggest options (like "single payer insurance") is "outside the mainstream", a terrorist or troublemaker, a deeply troubled person, unpatriotic, unappreciative of all the freedom found in the USA, etc.
======

So much for your belief that only the government has a gun at your head.  Who exactly, in the present time, do you think has the greatest say in what the government does?  (Please don't tell me "ACORN")

Its also been researched that Isabel Patterson is a libertarian author along the lines of Ayn Rand.  If you accept that way of looking at life you are definitely in the wrong place on this message board.  Our philosophy is inclusion, sharing, and cooperation, not every man for himself.  
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Rad
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« Reply #42 on: Jul 31, 2010, 01:58 PM »

Hi Steve,
 
 Geez, thanks for posting all those examples of Corporate 'persuasion'. Now I feel deeply enlightened. It's is quite a perfect example of a consciousness in human form being able to create and make reality into anything they need to 'believe' in: even to the point of black becomes white, etc. And then we wonder how come it takes a soul / consciousness so long to evolve.

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #43 on: Aug 04, 2010, 03:28 PM »

See if you can find the Pluto in Capricorn language in this article. Rad

Krugman To Unemployed Americans: Sorry, Folks, The Elites Just Aren't Into You

Paul Krugman explains how the nation's elites are defining prosperity downward, and says our only real hope is public outrage. See any? Nope, me neither. Seems like the only people who really give a damn about the unemployed are... the unemployed:

    Yes, growth is slowing, and the odds are that unemployment will rise, not fall, in the months ahead. That’s bad. But what’s worse is the growing evidence that our governing elite just doesn’t care — that a once-unthinkable level of economic distress is in the process of becoming the new normal.

And I worry that those in power, rather than taking responsibility for job creation, will soon declare that high unemployment is “structural,” a permanent part of the economic landscape — and that by condemning large numbers of Americans to long-term joblessness, they’ll turn that excuse into dismal reality.

Not long ago, anyone predicting that one in six American workers would soon be unemployed or underemployed, and that the average unemployed worker would have been jobless for 35 weeks, would have been dismissed as outlandishly pessimistic — in part because if anything like that happened, policy makers would surely be pulling out all the stops on behalf of job creation.

But now it has happened, and what do we see?

First, we see Congress sitting on its hands, with Republicans and conservative Democrats refusing to spend anything to create jobs, and unwilling even to mitigate the suffering of the jobless.

We’re told that we can’t afford to help the unemployed — that we must get budget deficits down immediately or the “bond vigilantes” will send U.S. borrowing costs sky-high. Some of us have tried to point out that those bond vigilantes are, as far as anyone can tell, figments of the deficit hawks’ imagination — far from fleeing U.S. debt, investors have been buying it eagerly, driving interest rates to historic lows. But the fearmongers are unmoved: fighting deficits, they insist, must take priority over everything else — everything else, that is, except tax cuts for the rich, which must be extended, no matter how much red ink they create.

The point is that a large part of Congress — large enough to block any action on jobs — cares a lot about taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population, but very little about the plight of Americans who can’t find work.

[...] In short, it’s all good. And I predict — having seen this movie before, in Japan — that if and when prices start falling, when below-target inflation becomes deflation, some Fed officials will explain that that’s O.K., too.

What lies down this path? Here’s what I consider all too likely: Two years from now unemployment will still be extremely high, quite possibly higher than it is now. But instead of taking responsibility for fixing the situation, politicians and Fed officials alike will declare that high unemployment is structural, beyond their control. And as I said, over time these excuses may turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the long-term unemployed lose their skills and their connections with the work force, and become unemployable.

I’d like to imagine that public outrage will prevent this outcome. But while Americans are indeed angry, their anger is unfocused. And so I worry that our governing elite, which just isn’t all that into the unemployed, will allow the jobs slump to go on and on and on.
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Elen
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« Reply #44 on: Aug 06, 2010, 12:51 AM »

Hi Rad,

Capricorn definitely all over this article: suppression of rage; structurally high unemployment becoming the status quo; growth slowing; new, higher level of economic distress becoming the new normal; refusal to spend money by the powers that be to address the problem - responsibility; stinginess and scarcity (not words used, but underlying)...  Pretty amazing to see this with astrological filters...  How would this look with the highest expression, instead of the lowest expression, of Cap?  I know that the "golden age" in human culture was Saturn-ruled...

On another note, thinking of transiting Neptune/Chiron conjunction in Aq (this transiting US Gem rising 9th house): a federal court ruled California's ban on gay marriage as unconstitutional - healing old cultural wounds; changing the structural status quo to be more inclusive...

Transiting Neptune semi-sextile natal Pluto (Pluto in 8th) - a cultural taboo being exposed to the light of day and being revolutionized

Tr. Neptune sesquiquadrate the Sun and depending on allowable orbs, possibly forming a yod with natal Mercury and natal Neptune, with natal Lillith as the release point...  I don't know much about Lillith, but I think it is very much associated with matriarchal norms....?

To me, this slow but steady progression of gay rights has been one of the positives of these times... despite the resistance.

Ellen

See if you can find the Pluto in Capricorn language in this article. Rad

Krugman To Unemployed Americans: Sorry, Folks, The Elites Just Aren't Into You

Paul Krugman explains how the nation's elites are defining prosperity downward, and says our only real hope is public outrage. See any? Nope, me neither. Seems like the only people who really give a damn about the unemployed are... the unemployed:

    Yes, growth is slowing, and the odds are that unemployment will rise, not fall, in the months ahead. That’s bad. But what’s worse is the growing evidence that our governing elite just doesn’t care — that a once-unthinkable level of economic distress is in the process of becoming the new normal.

And I worry that those in power, rather than taking responsibility for job creation, will soon declare that high unemployment is “structural,” a permanent part of the economic landscape — and that by condemning large numbers of Americans to long-term joblessness, they’ll turn that excuse into dismal reality.

Not long ago, anyone predicting that one in six American workers would soon be unemployed or underemployed, and that the average unemployed worker would have been jobless for 35 weeks, would have been dismissed as outlandishly pessimistic — in part because if anything like that happened, policy makers would surely be pulling out all the stops on behalf of job creation.

But now it has happened, and what do we see?

First, we see Congress sitting on its hands, with Republicans and conservative Democrats refusing to spend anything to create jobs, and unwilling even to mitigate the suffering of the jobless.

We’re told that we can’t afford to help the unemployed — that we must get budget deficits down immediately or the “bond vigilantes” will send U.S. borrowing costs sky-high. Some of us have tried to point out that those bond vigilantes are, as far as anyone can tell, figments of the deficit hawks’ imagination — far from fleeing U.S. debt, investors have been buying it eagerly, driving interest rates to historic lows. But the fearmongers are unmoved: fighting deficits, they insist, must take priority over everything else — everything else, that is, except tax cuts for the rich, which must be extended, no matter how much red ink they create.

The point is that a large part of Congress — large enough to block any action on jobs — cares a lot about taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population, but very little about the plight of Americans who can’t find work.

[...] In short, it’s all good. And I predict — having seen this movie before, in Japan — that if and when prices start falling, when below-target inflation becomes deflation, some Fed officials will explain that that’s O.K., too.

What lies down this path? Here’s what I consider all too likely: Two years from now unemployment will still be extremely high, quite possibly higher than it is now. But instead of taking responsibility for fixing the situation, politicians and Fed officials alike will declare that high unemployment is structural, beyond their control. And as I said, over time these excuses may turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the long-term unemployed lose their skills and their connections with the work force, and become unemployable.

I’d like to imagine that public outrage will prevent this outcome. But while Americans are indeed angry, their anger is unfocused. And so I worry that our governing elite, which just isn’t all that into the unemployed, will allow the jobs slump to go on and on and on.

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