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Author Topic: Pluto in Cap, the USA, the future of the world  (Read 429365 times)
Gonzalo
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« Reply #45 on: Aug 06, 2010, 11:17 AM »

Dear Rad,

This would even seem consistent with a marxist approach: rejecting social betterment, ie. progressive reduction of inequality, in order to induce increasing social polarization, as considered necessary for revolution to occur through “class struggle”. Would this reflect an unconscious desire for liberation, lying  deep within the Capricorn archetype? (Marx had Uranus/Neptune conjunction in the 10th House, both retrograde in Sagittarius, squaring Saturn/Pluto conjunction in the 1st House, in Pisces, the 1st House cusp being in Aquarius, and Jupiter also retrograde in Capricorn in the 11th House) 

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #46 on: Aug 07, 2010, 08:40 AM »

gruff,

 You will now be banned from this message board. You were asked to keep your gibberish to yourself. Sadly, you can not. This board is not to peddle your twisted view of the world, including quotes from Hitler.

Rad
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2010, 09:08 AM by Rad » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #47 on: Aug 07, 2010, 09:37 AM »

Hi Ellen,

 In terms of the 'highest' manifestation of Pluto's movement into Capricorn, Uranus into Aries, and Neptune's existing transit in Aquarius, and soon to be in Pisces, and the immediacy too of Saturn's transit now through Libra, I guess the best example of that, to me, is the country of Danmark. This little country and it's society is a unique combination of socialism and capitalism. A social system that is rooted in equity for all. To achieve that, of course, their lowest tax rate is 55 percent which reflects a commitment of the whole to the individual. A real world example, even in patriarchal times, of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion.

 Every country has it's own context, reality, of course. In most European countries now, that have had very good social systems that attempt to reflect and care for the equity of their citizens, those existing social systems are facing the reality of being torn apart and redefined because of the pressures of economic 'globalization'. The one exception are the Danes who are determined to persist within the structural nature of their society. And, to me, God Bless them for remaining so persistent. With the Uranus in Aries transit, through geodetics, now moving across the European continent this sudden change to their social systems is self evident. And as this manifests progressively it will cause social rebellion in many of these countries.

 Every country has it's own context. So in the USA, where you live, this issue of the gay rights as symbolized in the Court ruling in the California case, is of course a good and great thing. Yet the ruling, in and of itself, is unlikely to alter the preexisting bias and judgments of the dim witted, ignorant, Americans who already hold those stupid views.

God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2010, 09:39 AM by Rad » Logged
adina
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« Reply #48 on: Aug 07, 2010, 10:13 AM »

Thanks for that positive reflection on Pluto in Cap, Rad.

And in relation to Denmark, no wonder they're hanging on to the structural nature of their society! A world-side study a few years ago ranked Denmark as the No. 1 Happiest Country on the planet. In spite of the fact that they pay at least 55% of their income in taxes, their quality of life - and social equality - help make them the happiest people. They get a lot in return for their taxes like free education, healthcare for EVERYONE, etc, etc.

Here's an interesting story (including a brief video) about this "happy" place: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4086092&page=1
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Rad
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« Reply #49 on: Aug 07, 2010, 10:16 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

 Well I don't feel that Pluto in Capricorn, of itself, harbors a deep seated need for liberation. To me it is much more about deepening, or creating, structures of 'reality' that become progressively more oppressive to the common person. And it is this that then becomes the basis of rebellion/ liberation through the following archetype of Aquarius. That's why, to me, this combination of Pluto in Capricorn, and Uranus in Aries, is so potentially explosive as the common person becomes ever more dictated too, and controlled by, the oppressive structures of reality that are created by the self appointed Zarathustras of our time. These self appointed Zarathrustras, in our time, hide behind the CORPORATIONS that are, in our time, the causes of these progressively oppressive structures of reality to the common person.

 I remember reading somewhere that during the Great Depression, when Pluto was in Cancer, Uranus in Aries, that in America, of all places, 3 million people signed up and joined the Communist Party of that time. And this was in rebellion to the existing powers of that time that caused the Great Depression in the first place: The Corporate/ Republican party. And, of course, Marxism is the root of communism in the extreme. Yet Marxism, in the end, is simply a philosophy of social equality. And that's why those 3 million Americans rebelled, Uranus in Aries in it's 11th House at that time, against the existing powers of society that caused not only social inequality, but the hoarding of the money by the few: Pluto in Cancer in it's 2nd House on top of all of it's natal Cancer planets there, which are all ruled by it's Aquarius Moon in the 10th House conjunct NATAL LUCIFER.

 And it was that progressive social rebellion that then became the basis of the American electing Franklin Roosevelt to be there President who promised to create a 'New Deal' for the American people. And that new deal was, in essence, about creating social equity for all. Yet, even as he came to power, the existing powers that be as symbolized then by the Corporate tycoons like Prescott Bush et-all tried to create a situation of removing him from power: to overthrown the duly elected President of the United States. This part of American history has actually been expunged from their history books: very few American actually know of this historical fact. And it has been expunged by the hands of those that were responsible for this evil act in the first place, and their descendants. And it is those descendants who are STILL IN CONTROL of the very Corporations of today that are attempting, again, to turn the vast majority of Americans into indentured servants of those Corporations. And it is these descendants, the '400 families', who are attempting, now, to overthrow anyone, including the current President Obama, who stands for the people because this undermines their need for yet more wealth, more profits. The descendant of Prescott Bush are not only his son, but his grandson who both became Presidents. And just look what the policies of the second Bush did not only for the USA, but the entire world. The first President Bush is the one who set in motion the 'globalization' of the economy. These descendants of the 400 families are now reflected in the reverse transit of Pluto now being in Capricorn, in the USA 8th House, opposed all the Cancer planets in the 2nd. And of course this is squaring the current transit of Uranus in Aries, in the same USA 11th House, that has and will cause massive TRAUMA to the majority of the citizens in the USA.

God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2010, 12:32 PM by Rad » Logged
bluesky
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« Reply #50 on: Aug 07, 2010, 11:00 AM »

another pluto in capricorn issue - AGEISM.

Here is a link to a story about a middle-aged man who is suing google because he believes he was let go for not being a good "cultural fit" ie. too old.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0516195820100805
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Elen
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« Reply #51 on: Aug 07, 2010, 11:40 AM »

Hi Ellen,

 In terms of the 'highest' manifestation of Pluto's movement into Capricorn, Uranus into Aries, and Neptune's existing transit in Aquarius, and soon to be in Pisces, and the immediacy too of Saturn's transit now through Libra, I guess the best example of that, to me, is the country of Danmark. This little country and it's society is a unique combination of socialism and capitalism. A social system that is rooted in equity for all. To achieve that, of course, their lowest tax rate is 55 percent which reflects a commitment of the whole to the individual. A real world example, even in patriarchal times, of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion.

 Every country has it's own context, reality, of course. In most European countries now, that have had very good social systems that attempt to reflect and care for the equity of their citizens, those existing social systems are facing the reality of being torn apart and redefined because of the pressures of economic 'globalization'. The one exception are the Danes who are determined to persist within the structural nature of their society. And, to me, God Bless them for remaining so persistent. With the Uranus in Aries transit, through geodetics, now moving across the European continent this sudden change to their social systems is self evident. And as this manifests progressively it will cause social rebellion in many of these countries.

 Every country has it's own context. So in the USA, where you live, this issue of the gay rights as symbolized in the Court ruling in the California case, is of course a good and great thing. Yet the ruling, in and of itself, is unlikely to alter the preexisting bias and judgments of the dim witted, ignorant, Americans who already hold those stupid views.

God Bless, Rad
Hi Rad,

Thanks so much for your answer.  Denmark does seem to be a wonderful tribute to the values of sharing and inclusion, and I look forward to a time when the rest of the world (whenever that will be) will be awakened to these values and to their positive impact.  It is a shame - and quite an irony in a "scientific" world - that no one seems to be bothering with weighing the EVIDENCE and being guided by that.  It's just all a bunch of ideas about "what about me?!" and then structuring those ideas in and then, as the article you posted points out, coming to believe that that's just the way things are - part of the structure so oh well...

About glbt rights and the court rulings, I absolutely agree with you that it won't do anything to change the views of the people too ignorant to actually think.  But I do think it helps glbt people, myself included, in just our everyday lives.  I don't have to watch out for who I reveal myself to, for example, for fear of losing my job or housing.  I might still get beat up or killed, but at least the law will not look kindly upon that.  So, to me, those are positives.  And they are especially positives for me when I think of young glbt children growing up today, at least in urban centers.  They at least have visible and structural support for who they are.  Do they still suffer?  Yes, absolutely.  But there is the sense now that that suffering is wrong and needs to be changed.  That is a step...  Thank you so much for your complete support in these matters.  And thank you, by the way, for protecting this space (you and Steve) and the values represented here. 

Peace,
Ellen

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Elen
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« Reply #52 on: Aug 07, 2010, 01:49 PM »

another pluto in capricorn issue - AGEISM.

Here is a link to a story about a middle-aged man who is suing google because he believes he was let go for not being a good "cultural fit" ie. too old.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0516195820100805

Hi bluesky,

Made me think of Lord of the Flies but in a world in which there ARE elders present.

Peace,

Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #53 on: Aug 07, 2010, 01:59 PM »

Thanks for that positive reflection on Pluto in Cap, Rad.

And in relation to Denmark, no wonder they're hanging on to the structural nature of their society! A world-side study a few years ago ranked Denmark as the No. 1 Happiest Country on the planet. In spite of the fact that they pay at least 55% of their income in taxes, their quality of life - and social equality - help make them the happiest people. They get a lot in return for their taxes like free education, healthcare for EVERYONE, etc, etc.

Here's an interesting story (including a brief video) about this "happy" place: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4086092&page=1

Wonderful article, Adina.  Thanks for posting it.  Now back to my studies!
Ellen
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Bradley J
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« Reply #54 on: Aug 08, 2010, 12:41 PM »

Thanks all for giving us the information you’ve been sharing.


More strategies for the people of the USA during the end of this pluto cycle

Self Sufficiency and relearning natural ways will facilitate our progressing/evolving. 
Basically, going off of this and the reality of what the people of the USA are facing, the more we are self sufficient the better off we will be. 
Here are things in my community which I see as helping to further us along this path, based on the symbolism of the USA’s 2nd house.

*Free Store:  There is a volunteer run free store-really just a hole in the wall, nothing really big can be donated.  But, for example, if you are in need of clothing, basic household stuff and put out that intention it will often manifest for free.  I know many who have not the stress of buying clothes for baby and children because they can all be free.   The actual volume of free stuff that moves thru this little space is amazing. 

*Neighborhood Identities:  I have noticed that as neighborhoods develop more of their own identity it is helpful in having neighbors communicate with each other.  Examples of this would be a neighborhood email group where individuals can share helpful information or request needs and have response from local neighborhood.  Another example is creating neighborhood meeting places, similar to what Portland’s City Repair group has created in neighborhoods in their city.  Sometimes even just a kiosk/community bulletin board serves this purpose (2nd cancer --> 3rd leo)

*Possessions of things that bring emotional security of self reliance.  This is not to say live in isolation, but rather to not be dependant on external power structures and believe that we need them (pluto cap 9th/polarity of cap 8th)  Examples of this would be wood stove, solar panel, rain barrel, herb garden, smokehouse, bike and trailer, scooter, etc.  Even more survival based also, like a pantry, water, portable stove, water filter, temporary shelter, candles.

*Living off the Grid:  Talk about being self sufficient, this would be the example of complete self sufficiency.  As a survival goal, each little thing would be one step toward increasing this.  Natural ways of living include knowledge needed to live this way.  Making of clothes, taking care of animals, gardening, harvest and preservation, local food sources, etc.  Also, we could see technological advances help with generating local energy sources.

*G.R.U.B.  is a local group which stands for Garden Raised Urban Bounty.  Anyone who is in need calls this organization.  They come out for free and build 3 4X8 raised garden beds and fill them with rich soil, provide starts, seeds, and direction on how to begin growing your own food.  Any type of organization like this is going to be a great support the people of the USA in these times.  Also to add, rooftop gardens in cities, urban garden projects, community gardens, CSAs, and more.

*Knowledge of Herbalism:  Healing and transformation of plants to medicine is essential knowledge of natural ways, which we lost, that is in line with these symbols.  With the hope of government supported healthcare in a distant future, we need to literally take things into our own hands as much as we can.  As mentioned in possessions, to ‘possess’ an herb garden, or a shared herb garden with shared responsibilities (saturn libra 5th relative to nn leo) we can discover ways to accomplish the goals of having the tinctures, dried herbs, and fresh herbs that would be possible to grow which could most benefit us. 

*Buy Local Campaigns:  An increase in propaganda for spending locally will help to keep our money within our communities.  Part of this is discovering ways to communicate the possibilities and options we have just within our neighborhood, town, city, county, region.  If the people realize that each dollar is a vote, spending locally will be an increasing removal of getting resources from corporations, outsourced jobs, resources, money exiting the community.  Local spending as much as possible and local trading will further our potential for self sufficiency.   Right along the same lines, the evolution of Craigslist appears to be helping in this regard.  Surely, so much less spending/money is going into corporate pockets and back into the peoples pockets just by this existing.  If we can become totally regionally sufficient, we could really begin to make an impact on these corporate/oligarchy stronghold.  We would simply not be needing them. 

All this considering also the nn is leo and virgo is on the cusp of the 5th house.  Relative to our purpose and use of will, we have a evolutionary lesson of learning humility and compassion.  The pride that we are taught/conditioned is actually a real obstacle for many - to be humble enough to access local free resources and support which we can share with each other is something we need to learn collectively. 

One other thought strategy related, is the need for groups to communicate with each other(uranus gemini first relative to nn 3rd).  Often, we have this syndrome in USA where there can be so many local groups doing great things, having great intentions, but we have not been all up to speed with what each other is doing.  To increase self sufficiency we would need to increase efficiency and those sustainability of our efforts.  This means discovering what the groups are doing, communication between the groups, locally joining forces instead of increased chaos and bombardment of similar messages from multiple sources.

God’dess Bless,
Bradley

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Bradley J
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« Reply #55 on: Aug 09, 2010, 12:36 AM »

This was a joy to discover this PBS video on the tiny home movement.
Helpful to envision the possibilities and in line with the evolution of the US culture - a great strategy.

http://video.pbs.org/video/1553961054

Of course for the unemployed, it will present challenge to fund and find a location.  On the flipside of this, I did just run into someone who is part of a green builders guild and they are having a contest on designing and constructing shelters for those without homes. 
Small glimmers of hope and I pray leaders in the evolving USA.

God'dess Bless,
Bradley
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adina
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« Reply #56 on: Aug 09, 2010, 06:34 AM »

Wow! That is SO cool!   Grin  Thanks for sharing that story, Bradley!
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #57 on: Aug 09, 2010, 10:18 AM »

Hi Rad

Thank you for your answer.

"Well I don't feel that Pluto in Capricorn, of itself, harbors a deep seated need for liberation. To me it is much more about deepening, or creating, structures of 'reality' that become progressively more oppressive to the common person. And it is this that then becomes the basis of rebellion/ liberation through the following archetype of Aquarius."

It is known that the formation of the US was promoted by a small group of people who were in positions of social power (landowners), and no necessarily democratic. Jefferson is known to have opposed to a proposed abolition of slavery.

Several revolutions and rebellions occurred during the Pluto transit through Aquarius, as the French revolution. Also, several indigenous rebellions in Peru, Bolivia and the North of Chile (leaded by Tomas Catari, Tupac Amaru and the lickanantai shepherd Tomas Paniri). These indigenous rebellions occurring while Pluto was in the first degrees of Aquarius proclaimed, among other things, the independence of all America from any external authorities, including Spain. They also proclaimed the abolition of the slavery of the black people. The “formal” abolition of indigenous slavery had been ordered by the king of Spain on 20 November 1542 (with Pluto in Aquarius, North Node in Aquarius, Uranus conjunct the South Node, and Saturn squaring the nodes). This declaration was proposed by the priest Bartolome Las Casas, who was later beatified. For this to be possible, this priest also proposed to emperor Charles V to bring black people to America as slaves, to replace the indigenous peoples!

God Bless,

Gonzalo


 
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Wendy
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« Reply #58 on: Aug 09, 2010, 09:45 PM »

Thanks for that positive reflection on Pluto in Cap, Rad.

And in relation to Denmark, no wonder they're hanging on to the structural nature of their society! A world-side study a few years ago ranked Denmark as the No. 1 Happiest Country on the planet. In spite of the fact that they pay at least 55% of their income in taxes, their quality of life - and social equality - help make them the happiest people. They get a lot in return for their taxes like free education, healthcare for EVERYONE, etc, etc.

Here's an interesting story (including a brief video) about this "happy" place: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4086092&page=1

Denmark also is ranked #1 for financial gender equity and they have a very progressive movement there too.  I have family there and have considered moving out of the US insanity, but I'd have to learn how to speak Danish first. Wink
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adina
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« Reply #59 on: Aug 09, 2010, 10:03 PM »

Go for it, Wendy! If I weren't about to "move" somewhere else  Wink   Cheesy  ~ and I had the means to do it, I'd be moving to another country myself!  AND, we have a wonderful Evolutionary Astrologer who lives in Copenhagen!
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2010, 10:07 PM by adina » Logged
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