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Linda
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« on: Jul 18, 2010, 03:38 AM »

Has JWG ever spoken about global transformational events and their efficacy? - for example, events similar to the Conscious Convergence (today), where millions (?) of people unite to manifest unity consciousness.  Would these types of events succeed in speeding up collective growth?

I'm wondering if people in the spiritual stage of evolution, through their multi-dimensional energies/realities, would have enough collective power as the impetus to create the dynamics for real change.

Would evolution for those in the spiritual state be faster than those in, say, the consensus state of evolution?  If one is in the spiritual state, would their burning desire to know the divine accelerate their evolutionary journey?  

Thanks.
« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2010, 04:21 AM by Linda » Logged
Steve
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 18, 2010, 05:23 AM »

Hi Linda

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...millions (?) of people unite to manifest unity consciousness. Would these types of events succeed in speeding up collective growth?

They certainly can momentarily raise the overall vibration.  

But what the participants do when the event is over has more to do with the lasting effect of the event.  Are they using the experience to deepen their commitment to personal change on a daily basis?  Are they returning to the same old emotional patterns and physical lifestyle?  Are they changing only their purchasing choices, or are they ever more deeply dealing with the dysfunctional emotional patterns within self that are the source of keeping them locked into repeating the past over and over?  

Too many of us are looking for quick fix, feel good solutions that let us feel that we have made some contribution to the overall problems, and now we can go back to our life.  Reality is, as long as we have corporations and the wealthy driven by selfish principles of "me first and screw you" making the rules and calling the shots, there is not going to be a lot of what we'd consider change, because on a daily basis they work undo all the efforts that sincere people put in trying to create realities that are equitable and fair.  Reality is, these people and organizations are not going away just from having love and good intentions beamed at them, even by billions of people.  They do not care.  

God is not going to make it happen through miraculous events.  It is up to us to make it happen, if it is going to happen.  Then if it is in fact God's intent for the type of world we want to see, we become the vehicles tirelessly working to make that occur.  But at this point that would require near super-human commitment by zillions of people.  Do you see that happening?

These events DO give a boost to the participants.  And since we at times feel small and alone, and can at times lose hope, there is value in having our spirit raised, to realize again we are not alone.  But one day of that is not going to change the world.  Only sustained daily effort at a personal level by all those people and millions and billions more can possibly turn things around.  

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If one is in the spiritual state, would their burning desire to know the divine accelerate their evolutionary journey?  

Of course.  

To close this - if you find yourself on a large boat that appears to be sinking:  even if you feel you may eventually drown, you still do everything you possibly can to try to help.  Reality is accepting the boat may still sink.  But you do all you can anyway, because its the right thing to do.  That is what EA means when it says the value is in the effort, not in the outcome.  
« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2010, 11:43 AM by Steve » Logged

Wendy
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 18, 2010, 08:32 AM »

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 If you find yourself on a large boat that appears to be sinking, even if you feel you are eventually going to drown you still run around trying to do everything you possibly can to reverse the situation and help people.  That is the natural thing to do, to try to make it better.  Reality though includes accepting that you might not succeed.  You still take the actions anyway.  As EA teaches, the value is in the effort, whether or not the desired outcome occurs.  

This is so depressing!  I certainly have thought it possible alien friends could help us, and I do believe in spiritual assistance, but on a global scale?  I haven't thought as realistically about it as we are discussing now, though out of my mouth many times has come "we're not going to survive if we keep this up."

All that hype from Pluto in Sagittarius--did it get us anywhere?  I thought so, at least initially.  To utilize any positive energy that came forward then though, we must concertize our beliefs into something real, lasting, functional for communitites at large. 

During the Solar Eclipse weekend I was so moved by the energy, I feel strongly motivated to initiate a large consciousness raising gathering (still plan too).  I then found Calleman's article about Conscious Convergence (this weekend) as a predate for its actual convergence in March of 2011.  I believe that is what you're speaking about Linda.

Calleman too is saying the same thing Steve is.  I honestly do have a fantasy that enough souls will awaken by the time this summer Grand Cross is over (a major wake up call), to tip the scales into a more hopeful direction.  And like Steve mentioned, even if we know the ship is going down, some of us will keep trying to manifest evolution until the very end.     

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Steve
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 18, 2010, 10:53 AM »

Hi Wendy

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All that hype from Pluto in Sagittarius--did it get us anywhere?  I thought so, at least initially.  To utilize any positive energy that came forward then though, we must concertize our beliefs into something real, lasting, functional for communitites at large.

Well hype never gets us anywhere anyway.  The positive aspects of Pluto in Sag were the foundation of new beliefs and cosmologies.  That is followed by Pluto in Cap.  Those new beliefs then have to be anchored and structured.  Outer forms created that reflect those new beliefs.  Yet we are caught in the struggle between the old and the new.  Those who prospered under the old are using every trick to retain their control - a dark side of Pluto in Cap.   

The very systems and structures we have to live under are the problem itself (or at least a manifestation of the real problem, which is the very idea of me advancing myself at your expense).  That is why those structures have to crumble.  As structures crumble people experience real pain.  And we are not exempt from experiencing some of that pain. 

Times of vast change are always uncertain and create insecurity.  But they are also the only times during which great change CAN occur.  So here we go again.

Pluto in Cap also brings the Saturnian elements of facing reality, getting real, getting grounded, looking at our delusions and seeing them for what they are.  It can bring on depression and futility too.  But the positive side of that is that when false hopes and beliefs are dashed on the rocks it opens the way for realistic hopes and beliefs to enter - what is POSSIBLE vs what I call magical thinking.  We have to lower our grand ideals and deal with what is possible, rather than utopian dreams that are just not realistic given present context.  Collectively we are in dire straits, and a lot of options that could have been possible if action had been taken decades ago when they were proposed are no longer possible. 

Pluto in Cap is also consequences - the consequences of our previous actions.  So we are seeing that too.  We are not going to get out of this with a story book ending.  The best possible thing anyone can do is come to terms with that emotionally.  That in itself can take time.  Once you come to terms with that, what is possible, we can start acting in ways that are realistic and aligned with what is possible. 

A lot of that seems to be positioning self for personal survival through difficult times. Part of the intent of the discussions on these topics is to talk about what is possible, what can people realistically do, given the actual circumstances. 

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I honestly do have a fantasy that enough souls will awaken by the time this summer Grand Cross is over (a major wake up call), to tip the scales into a more hopeful direction.

I hope you are right Wendy.  I'd propose you consider this - if you don't see that happening in a reasonable amount of time after the Grand Cross, that you make a pact with yourself now that you will then shift gears and realize that solutions based on fantasy are probably not going to work out.  Many who believe in fantasy solutions, when the one they've been envisioning does not appear, replace it with the next fantasy solution that is again a year or three in the future.  We have to get away from that.  There is much work to be done based on what appears to be likely actual outcomes.

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chuck h
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 18, 2010, 08:36 PM »

Steve,

I don't understand.  Are you saying EA doesn't 'believe in' the creative potential of the individual?  That when we consciously direct God/dess energy thru us, towards an end, there is nothing there?  That we are powerless to influence the negatives of the world...the advantage-takers?  That we are not connected...so that when one gains, all gain (or grow, or expand, or draw closer to source)? 

I DO understand that we are responsible for our own work, that we are developing (or remembering) the capacity to love unconditionally...without judging.  JWG talks lovingly of Jesus.  What does Jesus mean by telling us to love others in spite of their flaws?   I'm trying to get how it is moving anything forward to repeat over and over that we are being shafted by others?  This 'Realism' is as creative as the love sent out in a convergence.  Don't we have even the choice of where to and how to send our energies?  ARE we powerless? 

Belief in creative intention doesn't seem like a fairytale to me.  Isn't this simply faith that love has creative power?  Is this simply a treadmill, working on our selves while dissing those who are not in our camp? 

Can't get my thoughts right...
maybe you can help put this into perspective.
Seems bckwards some how...to suggests that love is an escapist activity...unless it is only for self.  That we should continue to reinforce the negatives.  Look where divisive energies have gotten us to date.No one is saying head-in-sand, but once we know let's work on creating otherwise with alll our energies...in fact...concentrated energy of many.  No miracles you say?  No magic? 

chuck

 
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Linda
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« Reply #5 on: Jul 18, 2010, 09:20 PM »

Thank you Steve, Wendy and Chuck,

I'll be investigating this further. I do agree that it will be up to each one of us to bring about the changes. If the Great Spirit created this beautiful and diverse Earth, do we also have that very same power to CREATE? Perhaps "create" here has been misunderstood. Is this delusive thinking?

Perhaps the meditations and prayers inspire the courage within ourselves to change the old patterns, to take realistic action to heal Mother Earth. Are we just psyching ourselves up during these events?

Wendy said:
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During the Solar Eclipse weekend I was so moved by the energy, I feel strongly motivated to initiate a large consciousness raising gathering (still plan too).  I then found Calleman's article about Conscious Convergence (this weekend) as a predate for its actual convergence in March of 2011.  I believe that is what you're speaking about Linda.

Wendy, yes, that is what I was referring to. Barbara Hand Clow is involved along these same lines. The Lunar Eclipse of 15 Jan this year fell on my Sun/Cap, the Lunar Eclipse of 26 June on my Venus/Cap, and the recent Solar Eclipse fell on my Moon/Cancer.  I also was deeply moved by the energies, and felt many emotional blocks clear.

Steve, are you saying that these global transformation/meditation events are an old paradigm, part of the Pluto in Sag energies, and that now we are required to METAMORPHOSE those energies into Pluto in Cap REALISTIC action for change?

In view of the hopelessness of the situation, that is, the slow rate of evolution, and the tendency for the consensus to clutch onto the past for security reasons, I would have thought that events such as these would be incredibly positive, by uniting people everywhere to form a stronger purpose/group for global change. Seeding for the future.

There must be value in really FEELING the Love for Mother Earth, feeling the compassion, the consequences of our past actions, and the inspiration to care for and heal her and ourselves (Cancer). Could you please give some examples of old Cancer patterns that need to change?  And also:  In what ways can we "realistically" use the energies of Cancer to bring about change, both internally and for Mother Earth?

Linda said:
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If one is in the spiritual state of evolution, would their burning desire to know the divine accelerate their evolutionary journey....[Addition:]....and hence accelerate collective evolution?

Thanks for your assistance and sharing.
« Last Edit: Jul 18, 2010, 09:55 PM by Linda » Logged
Steve
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« Reply #6 on: Jul 18, 2010, 11:34 PM »

Hi Chuck
I don't understand.  Are you saying EA doesn't 'believe in' the creative potential of the individual?  That when we consciously direct God/dess energy thru us, towards an end, there is nothing there?  That we are powerless to influence the negatives of the world...the advantage-takers?  That we are not connected...so that when one gains, all gain (or grow, or expand, or draw closer to source)? 

I never said anything of the sort. 

The difference is, there are LIMITS to the creative potential within each individual, relative to overall context.

For example, if you happened to be born around 1920 in a European country, by the time you were coming of age there was a good chance your country was overrun with German soldiers.   No matter how much people banded together to consciously direct God/dess energy thru then, towards an end, there were still German soldiers in their country, and those soldiers were doing unspeakable things to many people.  No one in their right mind consciously asked God/dess to have German soldiers invade their country.  And no matter how much people prayed they just were not going away.  So why was the collective creative potential unable to will these German soldiers away?

We do not have complete capacity to create any reality we want.  Everything happens within the limits of a Soul program intended for that lifetime.  This exists on collective levels as well as individual levels.

If you have not ready my earlier post called Pluto in Cap, the USA, the future of the world,  I suggest you do so as I discussed in it some of the overall conditions in the world at this time.
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,268.0.html
You need to take what I said in the Global Consciousness post in the context of that earlier post.


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I DO understand that we are responsible for our own work, that we are developing (or remembering) the capacity to love unconditionally...without judging.  JWG talks lovingly of Jesus.  What does Jesus mean by telling us to love others in spite of their flaws?   I'm trying to get how it is moving anything forward to repeat over and over that we are being shafted by others?  This 'Realism' is as creative as the love sent out in a convergence.  Don't we have even the choice of where to and how to send our energies?  ARE we powerless?  

The best response I have to this, Chuck, is something I read from Martin Luther King.  He was asked if he hated his enemies.  His response was "I love my enemy.  I hate his deeds".

How can you unconditionally love without judging people and actions who are defiling the Divine intentions of living in cooperation, sharing, and inclusion on a daily basis?   That is not love, that is denial.  There IS such a thing as NATURAL judgment, to simply know what is right.  As Jeffrey used to say, you don't need a religion to teach you it is wrong to put your baby out to play on the Autobahn (German superhighway).  And you don't need a religion to teach you that taking everything for yourself and leaving thousands and millions hungry, homes in foreclosure, jobs exported to other nations, is just WRONG.  How can you love THAT?  How can you love that German soldiers are invading your country, raping your women, killing your old people?  Please explain how that is possible.

You can not single-handedly change the world.  And you and one million friends can not single handedly change your country if thirty million other people are buying into something you consider fundamentally wrong.  You are going to have to convince a whole lot of them to change their minds before you are getting very far.  You think you have the answers and the right ways, but the people whose views are 180 degrees away from yours feel they have the right answers too. 

So yes, there are limits to your power to change the collective, because the collective has the right and the power to reject your vision.

In terms of are we powerless, when they couldn't get rid of those German soldiers, did that mean they were powerless?  That is for you to define in your own reality.

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Belief in creative intention doesn't seem like a fairytale to me.  Isn't this simply faith that love has creative power?  Is this simply a treadmill, working on our selves while dissing those who are not in our camp?
 

I never used the term fairy tale in anything I wrote. 

I do consider belief that the answer is aliens from another planet are going to deliver technology that will save us is a fairytale.  Belief that everyone on earth, or at least millions of people, are going to suddenly wake up enlightened the day after Dec 21, 2012 is a fairy tale.   Belief that all the good spiritual people are going to Ascend and be taken to some other dimension of peace love and bliss, leaving all the creepy people down here on earth stuck with the mess is a fairy tale (I call it the New Age Rapture). 

There are natural laws, natural processes.  These have their own workings.  They are how God/dess created Creation.  They don't change - they are the foundation of everything.  Aligning self with them brings one set of consequences.  Consistently violating them brings another set of consequences.    If you eat healthy food regularly and keep in good physical shape, you are fairly likely to remain healthy.  If you live on candy bars, smoke two packs a day, never exercise, you are fairly likely to have your health deteriorate.  Is having your health deteriorate a punishment or a natural consequence?

The only issue about people who are "shafting us" (a phrase I never used) is that is the REASON progress is so difficult.  The issue is not that people are shafting us, the issue is that human behavior is changing the environment and ecology of the planet on a biological level.  Each species has evolved to function within certain climates (temperature ranges and precipitation), requires certain foods, etc.   Human behavior is shifting that on a mass scale beyond anything that has ever before happened on this planet.  And there are CONSEQUENCES to future generations from all of this shortsightedness. 

You missed most of my point if you felt what I was writing was a rant against the powerful.

Jeffrey said many times if you looked at the Earth from outer space, the human species would look like a cancer upon the earth.  A cancer is cells that are reproducing so rapidly that they literally kill the host within which they live.   Thus they are committing suicide, for they too die in the process.   The human species operates with complete self-granted license to do whatever it wants, completely oblivious to the rights of all other species, feeling superior to everything else and oblivious to its true nature.  That is the real issue.  And that is what has to change.  So if you want to work for change and peace and love, something needs to be done rapidly to prevent the human species from destroying future possibilities of life on this planet.

My points about the powerful were that it is those forces, especially their control of the mass media, that keeps everything the way it is. 

This to me is the danger in what you said about unconditionally loving everything.  Do you unconditionally love a mass murderer who wants to kill your children, or do you do what you can do to try to get it stopped?  What do you do when you discover that the authorities whose function is supposed to be stopping such people are secretly in cahoots with him?  Its a loose analogy, but is more or less what I was trying to say.

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Seems bckwards some how...to suggests that love is an escapist activity...unless it is only for self.

I never said love was an escapist activity.  I never even mentioned love.  You seem to consider what happens at this global event love, and then decided I said the whole thing was escapist (which I never said) and thus since I guess you consider what happens at the event to be love, that I was saying that love is escapist.  I never mentioned the words love or escapist.

And I certainly never said anything about "unless it is only for self".

My main point was, one days event is not going to change much of anything.  What will change things is consistent daily action and growth.  If people use the one day event to change their ongoing behaviors, then the event has served a useful purpose.  If people go back to their same old same old after the one day event, then that event is not really making a very big difference.  As ever, it comes down to the individual decisions made in the lives of millions of people.

Do you understand that in reality there is no such thing as a stand alone collective?  That a collective is made up of individuals?   That it is the individual decisions of millions of individuals that constitute a collective - that is the essence of Consensus.   It is millions and billions of of individual people who have to change their thoughts, patterns, habits, beliefs to evolve a consensus.  It goes from the bottom up, not from the top down.

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No one is saying head-in-sand,
I disagree.  MANY people are saying head-in-sand, while not using those words.  Unconditionally loving people who are creating misery for millions, to me is almost a definition of head-in-sand.

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but once we know let's work on creating otherwise with alll our energies...
Once we know WHAT? 

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No miracles you say?  No magic? 

Again you are misquoting me, and did not understood what I was saying.  I never mentioned the word miracles.   And I defined above what I called Magical Thinking.  You have misinterpreted what I meant by that term.  Please see what I said above.

You really are not seeing the bigger picture, larger perspective of what I am talking about.  What I wrote obviously pushed some buttons in you.  If you are interested, you might try reading the posts I've been putting up once again.  If you can, while you read, try to clear your mind of your pre-existing beliefs and just take in what I am saying without comparing it to what you believe.

It makes no difference to me if you agree or disagree.  But I will say, you missed most of the points I was trying to make. 

thank you for sharing your perspective
Steve
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Steve
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« Reply #7 on: Jul 19, 2010, 12:10 AM »

Hi Linda

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Are we just psyching ourselves up during these events?

My point was, to quite an extent I feel the answer to that is "yes".  That does not mean the event is pointless or useless.  There is often a deep need TO be psyched up.  It inspires and motivates.

The way I feel about it is, don't make it into any more than it actually is.  There is validity in getting psyched up.   But that psyche up has to sustain.   If people go back to the same old same old within a few days after the event, and don't use it to motivate ongoing changing, then the lasting effect of the event is not that great.  If they use it to motivate a process of continuing change, then the potential of the event is being realized.  Because it is our LIVES and BEHAVIORS that need to change, not just having an inspiring event and meditation for one day.  We have to CHANGE, permanently.   And then we have to help others change permanently.

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Steve, are you saying that these global transformation/meditation events are an old paradigm, part of the Pluto in Sag energies, and that now we are required to METAMORPHOSE those energies into Pluto in Cap REALISTIC action for change?

No, I was not saying that at all.  I was describing the nature of Pluto in Sag and in Cap, not referring to global events.

A fundamental archetype of Pluto transiting in Sag is a death-rebirth of beliefs.  For whatever reason in the zodiac Sag is followed by Cap.   A fundamental archetype of Pluto in Cap is death-rebirth of structure.   If you just went through 14 years of having your old beliefs die off and be reborn and renewed, it makes logical sense to me that when you are rebuilding the structures in Pluto in Cap that you'd want to build structures that were manifestations of your new beliefs as developed in Pluto in Sag.  That's all I was saying.  Was making no comment on the value of global one day events at all.

What I said about the need to continue the one day event in one's personal life through commitment to changing on a daily basis is just as true with Pluto in Sag as it is with Pluto in Cap. 

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In view of the hopelessness of the situation, that is, the slow rate of evolution, and the tendency for the consensus to clutch onto the past for security reasons, I would have thought that events such as these would be incredibly positive, by uniting people everywhere to form a stronger purpose/group for global change. Seeding for the future.

Have you ever gone to a really intense multi-day workshop, connected deeply with the work and the people attending it?  And vowed that you were going to use this to change your life, keep up your connections with all the people?   Have you ever noticed then that over time, for the most part the connections with those people gradually fade away, become less important? 

This does not mean the workshop was not valuable or significant.  It means that it was just a single event, a turning point perhaps.  Then you have to go home and implement what you learned at the workshop.  If you never use the tools you learned there, they are not going to help you very much.  They lie dormant.

The one day global event is like the workshop.  If you use what you experienced there to change your life on a daily basis, then you are applying the point of the global event, and there was value FOR YOU in it.  But you have to APPLY, ongoing, what you experienced there.  Otherwise over time it all just fades away. 

As I said before, we are always looking for quick highs and fast solutions.  The real spiritual work doesn't always feel like fun, and is often in solitude.  If people use the high of the global event to advance their ongoing spiritual life then yes it was a valuable experience.  If its just one more day of feeling good which then passes, you tell me how valuable it is.  In terms of giving people globally a sense of how many people really want to see a different sort of world, to not feel so alone, sure there is much value in that.  But it then NEEDS TO BE APPLIED in individual lives and choices to have any real lasting value.

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If one is in the spiritual state of evolution, would their burning desire to know the divine accelerate their evolutionary journey....[Addition:]....and hence accelerate collective evolution?

You are one Soul out of seven billion humans on this planet.  So to the extent one soul out of seven billion affects the human collective, yes you are advancing the collective evolution with your burning desire to know the divine.   But the point of your burning desire is not to advance the collective evolution but to advance your own evolution.  Advancing the collective is something that just happens from your personal efforts. Of course you have the desire to help.  But the only person you can really change is yourself.  You can support others in their evolutionary journey, but its up to them to take the steps.

Steve

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Linda
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 19, 2010, 12:43 AM »

Steve,

Steve said:
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But it then NEEDS TO BE APPLIED in individual lives and choices to have any real lasting value.

I love your above quote, and your whole message.  People should not just walk away after the global consciousness event and go back to the old behaviours;  they need to realize the potential of the event, and apply the new choices, consistently on a daily basis, to have real lasting value.  I will pass on this information.  This has been an important lesson:  thank you!
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Jane
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 19, 2010, 03:03 AM »


Steve,
Thank you so much for sharing your profound wisdom. It was a delight to read.
I agree with every word you have written.

I see so many people who are in denial chasing the 'New Age' illusion. I feel they are doing more harm than good for the  natural evolution of the human species/world.

Myself, I am a person of very few words, but these words I use often as I feel they say it all. 

By caring in the depths of my being,
I would lead you to be more than you are.

love to all,
Jane
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Wendy
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 19, 2010, 04:06 AM »

Pluto in Cap is also consequences - the consequences of our previous actions.  So we are seeing that too.  We are not going to get out of this with a story book ending.  The best possible thing anyone can do is come to terms with that emotionally.  That in itself can take time.  Once you come to terms with that, what is possible, we can start acting in ways that are realistic and aligned with what is possible.  

A lot of that seems to be positioning self for personal survival through difficult times. Part of the intent of the discussions on these topics is to talk about what is possible, what can people realistically do, given the actual circumstances.

I have been thinking about this.  TO practically discuss this, I thought we could start by creating a list of the major challenges to the collective and then we could look at practical ways implementation of those things could manifest into reality (Capricorn).

On a soul level we have left the paradigm of Sag and have entered Cap in the early stages, which will ultimately lead to Aquarius.  The fire and air are the easy parts for many of us, including me.  We have been in the elements of fire and air for a long stretch of time, expanding creatively, including selfishly expanding.  Now we have moved into the elements of earth and water (Pluto Cap, Chiron Pisces, Neptune soon to move into Pisces). Our addictive culture is hitting bottom and hitting bottom is not usually pretty and things tend to get worse before the get better.

In light of readings the responses I respect Steve's focus on how do we get into the reality of Capricorn, because that is the reality of the time.  In the same light, I have a strong Piscean, Leo, Sag signature and my whole life has been filled with dreams, fantasy, imagination (Mercury/Sun in the 3rd in Leo) and miracles that I could have never seen coming that transformed my life in remarkable and significant ways.  At the same time, I also have intense Virgo, Cap signature and when Saturn has moved across those aspects of my chart the most intense difficult karmic situations arose.  So even though miracles and magic are real, the earthly realities of Saturn weigh in, heavily, when its transiting influence is present, and now in our collective Pluto in Capricorn experience.

What does Pluto in Capricorn really want?  If we look at the positive, elder, leadership, community oriented, managerial nature of Capricorn, as well as, the deep feminine nature of this ancient sign, where do we see this represented in the collective, other than the shadow side of Capricorn?

That said, here is my perfunctory list (I hope everyone will add to this, as this is not my strong suit):

Desire to act in accordance with Natural Law:
the environment (recycling must be mandatory)
drilling for oil deemed unnecessary (especially when there are so many other solutions)
or at least mandatory safety measures in place (this is not my first choice at all)
NEED MORE....

Those acting out of the shadow of Capricorn, the big oil companies, Monsanto, etc. are really in the driver seat in terms of effecting the collective vastly.  That said, how can the collective really make a shift?  I keep thinking feeling it will be the earth herself, to teach the children of this earth.  As changes continue to come down the pike (Uranus squaring Pluto) we will receive many wake-calls, and I propose their will be reliable responsible Capricornian type organizations that individuals will want to get on board with, which support both individual and collective consciousness.

I also think the real issue here is power.  We the people have given away our power, and granted it has been taken by the patriarchal powers that be (don't get me started), but how long are we going to allow this to continue?

If we were working collectively to better the planet, our transition through Capricorn into Aquarius would not be so difficult, but until then, we need leaders who are trustworthy and responsible to the collective community.  I still think the only way this is going to happen is through massive coalitions of humans desiring change, desiring healthy relationship to the earth.  

During our presidential elections, it was clear at least 50% of this country are all for the right-wing unconscious way of operating.  I'm not sure if the number has shifted especially throughout this year.  I'm hopeful this is true.  I heard something to this light, yet don't recall now.

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Many who believe in fantasy solutions, when the one they've been envisioning does not appear, replace it with the next fantasy solution that is again a year or three in the future.  We have to get away from that.  There is much work to be done based on what appears to be likely actual outcomes.

Yes, we have enough magical influence to fuel us for eons of time, now we need real solutions to merge with those beliefs to manifest deep authentic change and practical means to prepare ourselves for the fallout of structural change?
« Last Edit: Jul 19, 2010, 04:51 AM by Wendy » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 19, 2010, 04:16 AM »

i just wanted to post a quick note --(for anyone who read the posts i just removed)

i did post before, but then i removed it bc i just felt that the words i had written simply did not articulate THE ESSENCE of what i was really trying to say.

 this last year i have had a heck of a time with writng and talking.(My current Transits ).


just in case anyone was wondering....

Peace,
 and thank you so much for this discussion-- all of u have contributed so clearly

thanks
dhyana
« Last Edit: Jul 19, 2010, 04:34 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Wendy
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« Reply #12 on: Jul 19, 2010, 04:25 AM »

There must be value in really FEELING the Love for Mother Earth, feeling the compassion, the consequences of our past actions, and the inspiration to care for and heal her and ourselves (Cancer). Could you please give some examples of old Cancer patterns that need to change?  And also:  In what ways can we "realistically" use the energies of Cancer to bring about change, both internally and for Mother Earth?

Hi Linda,

I to follow Barbara Hand Clow's work and really appreciate it. 

The Cancer patterns, as I see it, that need to change are the USA's immature focus on me, me, me.  We are obsessively controlling, overbearing, ego maniacs who are all about protecting "our country", yet their is no honor instilled in where this country came from in the first place, Mother Earth. 

I would like to discuss this more and have to get off the computer just now, so I hope we can come back to this.

Blessings,
Wendy
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Dhyana
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« Reply #13 on: Jul 19, 2010, 04:29 AM »

Steve,
I actually had to read your posts twice. The second time I heard it so clearly, and was very careful to not add even a tiny bit from my mind to your words. I would recommend that to anyone. Not just with your post Steve, but with whatever one is reading.

Thanks for your patience.

Dhyana
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Wendy
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« Reply #14 on: Jul 19, 2010, 04:46 AM »

The best response I have to this, Chuck, is something I read from Martin Luther King.  He was asked if he hated his enemies.  His response was "I love my enemy.  I hate his deeds".

How can you unconditionally love without judging people and actions who are defiling the Divine intentions of living in cooperation, sharing, and inclusion on a daily basis?   That is not love, that is denial.  There IS such a thing as NATURAL judgment, to simply know what is right.  As Jeffrey used to say, you don't need a religion to teach you it is wrong to put your baby out to play on the Autobahn (German superhighway).  And you don't need a religion to teach you that taking everything for yourself and leaving thousands and millions hungry, homes in foreclosure, jobs exported to other nations, is just WRONG.  How can you love THAT?  How can you love that German soldiers are invading your country, raping your women, killing your old people?  Please explain how that is possible.

No living human being would say they love the one who instills so much suffering, but for authentic healing, forgiveness and evolution to take place, without the trauma of events consuming you into utter furry, I can totally see how MLK would make that statement.  

I spent the first part of my life hating the very person who inflicted so much abuse and trauma into my life.  It wasn't until I realized it was his behavior I hated, that I became aware that I actually loved him too (my father).  It is very paradoxical.  Pisces is the ultimate goal in my chart, so many situations set up to lead me to forgiveness.  That said, I would never want to go through it again, and I spent many years confronting and many more healing to recover from such events.

I think MLK was a brilliant man who saw the bigger picture.

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The human species operates with complete self-granted license to do whatever it wants, completely oblivious to the rights of all other species, feeling superior to everything else and oblivious to its true nature.  That is the real issue.  And that is what has to change.  So if you want to work for change and peace and love, something needs to be done rapidly to prevent the human species from destroying future possibilities of life on this planet.

My points about the powerful were that it is those forces, especially their control of the mass media, that keeps everything the way it is.  

It is millions and billions of of individual people who have to change their thoughts, patterns, habits, beliefs to evolve a consensus.  It goes from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Steve, your comments here are exactly what I wanted to say in my most recent post.  
« Last Edit: Jul 19, 2010, 04:49 AM by Wendy » Logged
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