Pluto sextile Neptune

[jana]

I have read that given the length with which Neptune and Pluto have been sextile each other, that before it goes out of orb in 2030's, everyone living on the planet  will share this aspect (in different signs). Is this true? Is it significant from the EA perspective?

Peace be

Jana

[Wendy]

Hi Jana,

I was just reading Deva's Pluto book and read about Pluto sextile Neptune (page 183).  She says, "in general, Pluto/Neptune aspects correlate with the evolutionary intention to become aware of the nature of dreams, illusions and delusions. . . seventy-five percent of all Souls living today have Neptune in aspect to Pluto [maybe more now?]. . .thus the realization that we are co-creators with the Divine is extremely important from an evolutionary standpoint.

This makes an interesting point about many of the current discussions we are having here on the forum.  If so many of us have the potential of co-creating with the Divine, and if most of us are awakened to that potential, then this collective dynamic must have a Divine evolutionary purpose.  It seems this is a plus for the collective, if we can step out of delusion, or acknowledge it for what it is, and move into dreaming forward into a better dream.

[Deva]

Hi, I also wanted to add a few thoughts I had about Pluto/Neptune sextile aspects. The Pluto in Libra generation has Pluto sextile Neptune in Sagittarius, and as this genration grew/matured into adulthood we saw an extremity (Pluto in Libra) of religious fanaticism manifest (Neptune in Sagittarius).  Extreme terrorist groups that caused great harm and distruction which was justified under the banner of "Divine purpose" or "holly war" (Neptune in Sagittarius). Of course, there were those that stood up against this kind of religious fanaticism and sought to establish relationships of equality and peace with other nations and to negotiate with other groups of people that threatened to create civil disruption because of needs that were not being meet by their government (Pluto in Libra) In other words, the Pluto/Neptune aspects can manifest in a positive or negative way but the evolutionary intention is just as Wendy stated in her post.
  Other less forms of this dynamics are those who went to war thinking that they were serving their country, and in so doing serving a higher purpose/cause (Neptune in Sag). In essence, I believe that many of these people came to realize the lies (Neptune in Sag) that they are told by their government to justify the war when they saw the actual reality of what combat/the war was actually based upon. In this way they were brought into alignment with actual reality in general through a painful disillusionment process (Neptune in Sagittarius).  There are those who have fought in these kinds of wars and are now speaking for justice to occur in the context of those in the previous government that are responsible for telling these lies, and also to create fair compensation/treatment of the veterans who are coming home and need support to heal their wounds and this has become a higher purpose for such people to align with in their life (Pluto in Libra/Neptune in Sag). The point within this is that the Pluto/Neptune aspect can serve as collective inspiration or collective delusion within any generation on a personal and collective level. These are just a few exemples of how this aspect can manifest on a personal/collective level.
God Bless
Deva

[Steve]

hi Jana

I have read that given the length with which Neptune and Pluto have been sextile each other, that before it goes out of orb in 2030's, everyone living on the planet  will share this aspect (in different signs). Is this true?

To add further to what Wendy and Deva said, when everyone on a planet shares an aspect, that is an example of intended collective evolution.  Something shared by all humans, each in their own way of course, and generationally through the shifting of the signs the planets are in.  When an aspect exists for a really long time, it indicates the necessity of learning important collective lessons. 

Also, consider that at times one or the other or both of those planets will be retrograde, further reinforcing the intention of really getting the evolutionary lessons.
Steve

[Bradley J]

The Neptune Pluto Cycle has been for some time following a pattern of the waxing sextiles to begin with pluto in leo and neptune, of course in libra.  The end of the waxing sextile  occurs as pluto transits aquarius and neptune aries.  The middle-ish part of these waxing sextile periods sees neptune falling back to the waxing septile.
The length of these periods is because in the heart of it, while pluto transits scorpio, it passes within neptunes orbit, moving closer to the sun than neptune in it's corresponding sign and both traveling a relatively the same speed for a longer period of time than anywhere else in pluto's orbit.

For example, using an approx. 2 degree orb, the past two and this current one look like this:

Pluto Neptune Conjunction: 905 @ 29 Taurus
   Waxing Sextile Period:  967-1047

Pluto Neptune Conjunctions: 1398/1399 @ 4 & 3 Gemini
   Waxing Sextile Period:  1458-1541

Pluto Neptune Conjunctions:  1981/1892 @ 9 & 8 Gemini
   Waxing Sextile Period:  1950-2032

So, Pluto transits Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sag, Cap, and part of Aquarius during these periods of neptune waxing sextile to pluto. 

The waxing sextile from 967-1047 is the timing of the "High Middle Ages" which was when the there was a great conversion to christianity and the spread of the "˜holy roman empire'- here's a link to more basic info on this period:  www.worldology.com/Europe/high_middle_ages.htm

The waxing sextile from 1458-1541 happen to mark the timing of the Spanish Inquisition and the subsequent Inquisition in Portugal.  These persecutions continued til the 1800's in this form in europe and what is now called the americas, having crossed the ocean with christopher columbus.  Here's a link with some more basic info on this: 
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html

This current waxing sextile era of neptune pluto is, of course roughly from 1950 til 2032.
The period of 1458-1541, which marked the spanish inquisitions taking hold, had the first of the gemini conjunctions of neptune and pluto.  What made the spanish inquisition different than the Episcopal Inquisition (1184-1230s) and later the Papal Inquisition (1230s) was that the earlier ones didn't have a central top down authority controlling the persecutions; meaning the earlier inquisitions had been varied according to region and locale.

I believe that the Gemini conjuction series has appeared to bring in a certain duality and a collective desire to evolve thru the experience of information.  I do not totally understand the duality part, but before the times of the Spanish Inquisition, this great chasm of space between good and evil was not so strongly pushed in a divide and conquer approach.  Similar the USA with Gemini rising, whose global role has mimicked this convert or capture/kill approach - the divide and conquer aspect to this.  Also, note that the USA's ascent and Uranus are conjunct the second conjunction of neptune pluto in gemini. 

Basically, in a nutshell, the first period saw christian conversion in europe and beyond, the second period an authoritative persecution based in christianity, and now the third period we see a global crisis with the USA acting out a key role relative to the ascent Uranus conjunction in line with the recent neptune pluto conjunction.  We see that the whole world is affected by the peak of the current oligarchy. (An oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία, oligarkhía[1]) is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small segment of society distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, military control, or religious hegemony. )  As Rad pointed out the self appointed zarathustras of course have Pluto in Leo. 

This is similar to the High Middle Ages, and more similar to the Spanish Inquisition due to the singularness of the pyramid structure that reality takes - the last two, again were neptune pluto conjunctions in gemini with the start of the waxing sextile with pluto in leo and neptune in libra.  These periods, all three discussed above, were all kicked off with the leo - pyramid structure resulting in collective extremes of relationships (neptune libra).  In the pluto book one the sextile part starts with:  "Sextile:  The process of consciously understanding the new evolutionary cycle and purpose occurs through contrast and comparison." - JWG. 
Perhaps this is the aspect of duality - also this aspect coinciding with the gemini phase, so the conjunctions in gemini are going to even more of this contrast comparison flare.  Our new evolutionary information age (3000 year period of neptune pluto conjunctions in gemini) began with the first conjunction seeing the invention of the printing press completely change reality.  The second gemini conjuction, and most recent, we really entered an evolutionary age of information and discovery.  We are hoping that the curiosity does not kill us.
Also, as Deva pointed out:  "The Pluto in Libra generation has Pluto sextile Neptune in Sagittarius, and as this genration grew/matured into adulthood we saw an extremity (Pluto in Libra) of religious fanaticism manifest (Neptune in Sagittarius)."  All of these waxing sextile era's of neptune to pluto discussed in this post have had the waxing sextile transit with pluto in libra relative to neptune in sag.  We see this relative to the initial pluto leo with neptune libra and have the extremes swinging even further in these evolutionary eras of contrast and comparision.

I believe that the the current oligarchy and the past authorities of the spanish inquisition have similarities relative to the waxing sextile which began in leo/libra- such that the contrast and comparison of the current and corresponding past time has it's roots in the extremes of the pyramid structure.  The peak of these eras seems to have reached a waning of sorts as the neptune pluto waxing sextile reaches an end with pluto in aquarius and neptune in aries.

Please correct me if I've made "his"torical errors.  I hope this helps us to further see the underpinnings of these eras and what we may experience at this time.  I hope this is not too bleakly focused; the traumas which tie to these eras, the contrast and comparison and the factor of communication and discovering information play interesting roles.  I have, of course, only focused on the christian power elite and a very western lens.  Yet now, as discussed with the USA's chart and the recent neptune pluto conjunction; the USA is playing out a global role in the collective evolution because of the results of this oligarchy.  The resulting extremes of contrast and comparison which the global population faces due to extremes in the pyramid structure of our current global reality setting the stage in which  the evolution thru the human experience continues....

[Rad]

Hi Bradley,

Great post ............

Rad

[Bradley J]

Rad,
Thanks for the feedback.

Three more things regarding the neptune pluto cycles.


One - i had to find out how the waxing sextile period has changed thru time.
Previously, i posted about the last three neptune pluto conjunctions and following waxing septile periods, there similarities and the difference of sign shift with the conjunctions.
The previous conjuntion of neptune pluto before these three was, of course, in taurus. 
Here is the last 5 conjunctions of neptune pluto(rounding up in degree):

-83 & -82:      18 & 17 Taurus
411/412:        24 & 23 Taurus
905:              29 Taurus
1398/1399:    4 & 3 Gemini
1891/1892:    9 & 8 Gemini

Again, the waxing sextile of 967-1046 was starting in leo/libra and ending in aquarius/aries, and like the previous and current one, lasting for 80+ years in time each(waxing sextile period).  The main difference is the 967-1046 period followed a taurus conjunction. 
The waxing sextile period previous to these following the 411-12 conjunction in taurus was actually more like two waxing sextile bookmarks, 73 years apart, with a 25 year semi-square in the middle and long septile periods.  The waxing sextile also began in virgo/scorpio.

So, basically the last three cycles are unique with this period.
Especially the waxing sextile periods with the gemini conjunctions:
1458-1541
1950-2032

Also, what has just happened during the last two is that the neptune pluto conjunctions were/are in waxing square to the procession of the equinoxes movement thru early pisces.  (is this right?)

So, if this is all accurate, this larger evolutionary "crisis in action" for all of the planet earth's life, including and created by humanity is symbolically represented in this.  What do you think?

Second - in contrast and comparison of the last and current periods, 1485-1541 & 1950-2032, i've noticed some other correlations.  The 1485-1541 period i first correlated to the spanish inquisition.  Also the spanish/european conquest in the "˜new world', massive death of native peoples of "˜the americas' due to disease and fighting, beginning of european occupying/taking/claiming native lands, and the transformation of slavery.
The transformation of slavery is that the trans-atlantic slave trade started up AND the current slaves changed over, in europe, mediterranean, and to the east, to predominantly black african.  Previous to the 15th century, most peoples of different origin were slaves somewheres.  Even a % of the  british were slaves to other peoples.  The british - english - american peoples transformed from oppressed to oppressor.  Is this accurate?
Currently, we are the looking at the realities of a growing mass of serf/slave/lower class in USA and subsequent influence on the world of the 400 wealthiest families.
Basically, using these cycles, we are able to see how the people who first wrecked havoc on the "˜new world' and instituted mass slavery here are tied to these 400 families symbolically.  And, perhaps much more than we know/is revealed.
My goal here is to more clearly correlate these two eras of time and support why it makes astrological sense to do so.

A third thing, a question i had was to see when the south and north nodes of pluto had first gone into capricorn/cancer.
Here's what i found: 
363 -  south node of pluto first enters capricorn
622 -  south node of pluto totally in capricorn(end of retrogrades into sagittarius)

I have done little research and study on this era of time.  i did find it interesting to note that the power and spread of the roman empire during the start of the capricorn south node of pluto period took on a new capacity to dominate with the strength and establishment of it's cavalry.  This appears to be early example of the capricorn dominance beginning to establish thru patriarchal culture/era that we've been living in.
Surely there are many more also.

Blessings,
Bradley

[jana]

I just want to thank all who have responded...I am learning so much from you all...many thanks!!

God/dess Bless
Jana