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Author Topic: practice determining the ea stage of a child  (Read 4064 times)
ari moshe
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« on: Aug 08, 2010, 09:21 PM »

Hello Community,

I know of a 7 year old whose own parents simply don't know how to "deal" with his behavior. I'm grateful to know his chart, that I can cultivate a deeper understanding of this soul.

I've been contemplating what his ea stage is and was wondering if it would be an appropriate learning experience if we worked with this as the next real life ea stage practice thread?

If so, I won't get started with that for a few days as I want to focus fully on Rad's practice thread first.
God Bless
Ari Moshe

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010, 02:11 PM by ari moshe » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 08, 2010, 09:35 PM »

I sense this is a very important thing to look into too, Ari. So glad you brought it up.  Great idea.

Thanks,
Dhyana
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Rad
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 09, 2010, 08:40 AM »

Hi Ari,
 
 That would be fine to do.

God Bless, Rad
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Elen
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 09, 2010, 07:31 PM »

Hi Ari,

Looking forward to it.

Peace,
Ellen
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ari moshe
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 15, 2010, 02:10 PM »

I've been thinking about how to post this here in a way that I feel is considerate to the souls of the chats I will be posting. I don't think they will ever visit this site, however this is vulnerable information so I am going to edit my first post of this thread.
And all the names used will be made up.

What I think a good way to proceed is to describe the child as best as I can. Eventually I will post his chart and the charts of his parents as well as their estimated ea state in order to provide as broad of a context as possible.

This child is the eldest of 3- lives in a Jewish orthodox town in a suburb of nyc. Lets call him Max.

His parents are likely both early first stage individuated- living within the context of the orthodox culture, they send their children to Jewish day schools and camps. They themselves do not live that lifestyle and seem ambivalent about their own spiritual beliefs. However, they are both struggling to fit in to the community- to be financially better off than they are and to socially fit in.

He is currently 7 and a half years old- just recently completed his first Saturn square (mazal tov!)
Everyone has always known him to be a very gentle loving boy, yet also conceited and very much in his head. He has always loved math, working out long math problems, accumulating facts about animals- in particular cross breed animals (like the liger or the zorse).
He likes to tell adults the things that he has accomplished- talking on and on about abstract ideas that concepts that you will either understand or not understand.

He is very competative- as he has gotten older I've noticed that he tends to lie and cheat when we play games together. He seems to have an impulsive need to win all the time, to be the best. He self congratulates often- and as mentioned, will easily speak about his accomplishments.

I notice that he communicates and treats his younger children with great intuition and respect- he seems to be a natural leader and knows how to talk to his younger siblings in respectful ways. HOWEVER he gets easily triggered. As he has gotten older, I've been noticing that he is getting more easily frustrated when people don't understand what he is saying, even if it's his younger brother. In such situations, he does not seem to have a social awareness of the people around him- he becomes very in his own world.

Loud sudden noices also seem to irritate him- like when his little brother is yelling, Max will turn on a very stern voice and yell back at his brother "STOP YELLING!" I can tell it's more than him just mimicking the adults, he is actually irritated.

Recently Max's reactive behavior to stimuli has intensified. This has of course scared his parents. At the park one day a boy accidentally pushed him. Max responded by jumping on the boy and trying his hardest to hurt him. He exclaimed to an adult "I'm gonna kill him". It was very intense.

A couple weeks ago Max was kicked out of his orthodox summer camp. I've been told that he has been bullied (bc socially he doesn't fit in too well- he's mostly in his own world, looking for bugs and talking to adults- the kids make fun of him), and that one day he latched back at some kids and started violently hitting them. This resulted in being kicked out of camp. Of course this also lead to great feelings of powerlessness.

At home later that week he got into a rage when one of his parents was trying to lay down the rules (I don't know what the specific context was) but the general gist of it was he was feeling very imposed on, and WANTED OUT. I understand that inwardly he feels very angry. What he did in that home on that day was he started breaking everything he could break. He threathened to kill his entire family- putting both of his parents to tears.

His grandfather came to pick him up to find the apartment was a wreck. Max was totally calm and was happy to spend some time with grandfather. He's been living with his grandparents (and myself) for a week now. He has returned to his home in NYC once to see a therapist who prescribed him medication (I'll get back to you soon on what medication was prescribed).

I play with him a lot- we make art together. He loves to draw, loves to create- and likes doing so "out of the box". The opportunity to explore his own creativity on his own terms seems very important to him. When he accomplishes something, he is so proud of himself. It's almost like he's just a kid- playful and loving. Yet when something happens that scares him, or something that he perceives as an attack- his defenses go up and suddenly he's in flight or fight response.

We draw together, and I am amazed at his own creativity- the ideas he will come up with. And he never imposed them upon me- he just expects me to make up my own ideas and do them too. He also has the ability to appreciate the creativity of other people.


« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010, 02:32 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 15, 2010, 02:23 PM »

I've asked some questions to him to get a sense of his overall soul awareness:

What happens after death?
"How could I know? there's no way I can know that"
who do you think you were in a past life?
"How could I know that?"

His answers come from a logical place- there does not seem to be an overt interest in the mystical or spiritual dimensions.

I've asked him about God as well- and his answers are not in anyway associated with any of the religious dogma he has been fed. This can also have something to do with his father. As his answers seems very similar to that of his father, who himself tends to be on the fence about everything.

He wants to be a medical scientist and cure death when he grows up. love it!

I feel that this soul is not in the consensus state- I say that merely on account of his open mindedness about spiritual matters. He doesn't have very calculated belief systems, yet does seem to be very identified with his logical mental faculties. He is still young, however I do not see that rebellion from the religious dogma of his school to be much of a theme (yet at least).

However I can certainly see the possibility of anywhere from first individuated to beginning of spiritual.

I introduced him to the i-ching for the hell of it. He loves tossing coins and asking questions. He asked me "how does it know?" So he's very open minded and curious about how things such as divination work.
He also really like yoga because we do it together all of the time. He also knows that I mediate a lot and knows to leave me alone when I do that. I think all of these things may be intentional imprints for this soul that may have significance later in life.

Something that makes me thing he is not in the spiritual is that intense competitive edge. He will share VERY easily. If someone asks for something, he will give it- he's not possessive in anyway. He is just very identified with winning. However the need to win is only in some contexts, like when playing games- and he loves games.

Also his dream to cure death is also descriptive of a very grandeur, larger than life, sense of purpose. Unless other mitigating factors indicate something else- to me that excludes spiritual state. THough I wouldn't be decisive about that just yet...

I'll stop writing now and give those who want to be involved in this the chance to respond
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010, 02:37 PM by ari moshe » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 16, 2010, 08:27 AM »

Hi Ari,

 Can you post the birth data for him ?

God Bless, Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 16, 2010, 11:56 AM »

Hi Rad,
Would you generally recommend that when determining the ea state of a child, it's best to observe and correlate with the chart from the very beginning, as there are just too many possible conditioning factors that can get in the way of seeing the soul's ea state clearly w/out the chart?

Also, do you have any other advice for determining the ea state of a child?



Ari Moshe
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Rad
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 16, 2010, 12:23 PM »

Hi Ari,

 The best way to determine the EA state of a child is through observations, and asking specific types of questions like you have this boy. The observations of what naturally interests the child, and also how they interact with other children, adults, and how they behave is socialized situations. Recently I had a mother who has a seven year old daugther tell me that he daughter told her that she feels so 'different' than her classmates, and can find no one to really play with who is 'like me'.

God Bless, Rad
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Dhyana
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 17, 2010, 01:07 AM »

Hi Ari,

I have a suggestion that might be of use perhaps;
--When I start asking my children questions (to see where they actually vibrating, at a soul level)  I often start out talking about love, or about something or someone they love -- what the feel love for, what it feels like to be loved, and I inquire about the different flavors love might take on for them.  

It seems that once we start talking about love, they begin to get out of their head and more into their emotional bodies.  Then I can kind of discriminate better what is something  they are "parroting" or actually "experiencing" for themself. I can sense it in my own emotional body and my intuition starts kicking in to a higher gear, u know?

And sometimes they say one thing, but I can FEEL or sense another (what they are being on a FEELING level, sometimes even in spite of what they are saying in words --u know?

From there, it seems then I may be able to have them actually "feel out" the deeper questions of life --like why do you FEEL we are here>, what do you FEEL we come from, what do you FEEL the point is-- or things like that... always trying to remember to use  words  like "feel", or anything that keeps them out of their head as much as possible.

..Well, just a suggestion for you, especially considering that this young one you speak of here seems to have a tendency towards iidentifying with his logical mental faculties, as you put it.


All Love To You Ari.

Dhyana
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 01:12 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 17, 2010, 01:18 AM »

Ps. Sometimes I have even put my hand on their solar plexus area and said to them something like "what is it that this says (or is telling you), not ur head?" ...


Love, Dhyana
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Rad
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 18, 2010, 01:32 PM »

Hi Ari,

 Since no one seems to be responding yet I will share some about what I see in terms of 'how to handle' him  relative to the situation with his parents, rule making.

 This boy has Pluto in the 5th which is trine his Jupiter in Leo in the 1st, that being opposed by Uranus in the 7th. Of course his Pluto is conjunct Mercury and both are opposed by a retro Saturn in Gemini in the 11th, and he has Mars,Venus, and the Moon in the 4th which then comes back through his 5th House Pluto.
 
 The bottom line in this kind of Soul is that they will never accept direct confrontation and rule making at all. This will always create a defensive reaction, and rebellion, is such a Soul as symbolized by the above pattern. This is a Soul who has had other lifetimes of absolute power and control over it's life, and has had some lifetimes of having absolute power and control over other people. He has memories within him of being treated as a King, of having others bow down to him. This of course contributes to the defensive and rebellious reactions in the face of others making rules and limitations for him.

 One of the best ways to deal with him in the context of making rules, limitations because of those rules, is to take a Socratic position with him. This is symbolized by his Pluto/Mercury in Sagittarius, and those are trine his Jupiter in Leo in the 1st. So an example of that would be for the parents to create another kind of dialogue where they ask him to pretend that he is a parent of a child, and then describe to him various situations or behavior that 'his'  child was affecting. And then to ask him, as an imagined parent, how would he then parent that child ? What would he if the child did this or that ? In essence this then creates a situation where the boy himself would come up with his own rules, or consequences to specific behaviors, that he would  then be sharing with the parents. This would then connect him to the immediacy of his own life, his own behaviors, and create a situation of an AGREED UPON APPROACH by both he and his parents. Thus, they could together create the 'rules' and 'consequences' for various behaviors together. This would also help him learn one of the ongoing lessons of his Soul which is learning to accept the responsibility in his own behaviors.

God Bless, Rad
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bluesky
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 18, 2010, 01:46 PM »

Hi Rad - I have a question about your analysis - how do you interpret this boy's sun being conjunct his south node?  Does this make his evolutionary lessons the central theme in his life, say as opposed to a chart where pluto may be "tucked out of the way", and therefore not so obvious?

thanks for any insight you could share.
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Elen
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 18, 2010, 03:18 PM »

Hi Ari,

In addition to what Rad and Dhyana wrote, I wanted to post what I had been thinking in terms of what very little I know about children.  A key book for me in terms of understanding myself and thus understanding my developmental needs as a child, in hindsight, was a book called: Natural Learning Rhythms: How and When Your Children Learn (title may not be exact).  It's by Josette and Sambhava Luvmour.  There are, of course, many good books on understanding and helping children grow.  What I remember from this book that seems to relate to this boy is that the age of 7, give or take, is a very key year in terms of growth in a child.  At such key, or sensitive, times, conditions have to be just right and there has to be a huge willingness on the part of those raising the children to tune into the child - to understand their "bad behavior" as signals that they are now in or entering a very key time in terms of their development. Often, during these times, there can be regression of behavior, and certainly there can be outbursts, difficult behavior, etc.  All of this is signaling the parents, though, that this is a very important time.  What does the child ACTUALLY need in terms of his/her development.  In a sense, that question to me demands a willingness to perceive who the child actually is.  As Rad's post shows, astrology can help a TON there.

Also, around 7 is a time, if I remember correctly, that that kind of sweetness you are describing begins to manifest.  (I could have this wrong, but it is what I remember.)  I bring this up, and also the above, because I am not sure yet that I can see through these developmental signs/needs to his evolutionary stage.  I think here Dhyana's suggestion might yield some insights.  Beyond that, I have to think about it. 
Perhaps the question, what is it that he's wanting right now, could yield some insight.  What would a Consensus child going through the particular growth of a 7 year old want vs an individuated vs a spiritual...?

Some thoughts for now.  I will think more about this and hopefully have something more helpful re: evolutionary stage.  But I did want to at least post this.


Peace,
Ellen
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Elen
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 18, 2010, 06:00 PM »

Hi Ari,

Just remembered this re: the stages of development in the book I referenced in my prior post.  Up until about the age of 7 (all children will mature at their own rate, so 7 is not meant to be exact, just a ballpark figure), the children are in a stage of development the Luvmours call Body-Being.  About the age of 7, they begin to transition into a stage of development the Luvmours call Emotional-Being.  This lasts until 11 or 12 I think (I could have that wrong).  Anyway, pretty self-explanatory.  The primary developmental focus of Body-Being is the body - you could say that this is what drives the evolution, developmentally speaking, of the child.  The primary developmental focus of Emotional Being is the emotional nature and, again, you could say that what drives the evolution of the child during this stage, developmentally speaking, is the emotional nature of the child.  I'm not sure they say this themselves, but it's how I think of it.


Given this, one question I would have, re: discerning the evolutionary stage of Max, is whether or not his tendency towards left-brain thinking is in any way indicative of evolutionary stage....  In terms of his preference to be around adults (if I have that correct), that could be 1) intellectual precociousness and/or 2) perhaps an indicator of the transition he seems to be undergoing, with body-being, perhaps, feeling more secure around adults (this is me just speculating), while, as he moves further into emotional being, perhaps he will prefer to be with children his own age.....  This is definitely posed as a question - something to think about w/ regard to thinking about evolutionary stage.


Peace,
Ellen
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