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Author Topic: Virgo - Understanding the Whole Archetype and its Specific Correlations  (Read 23809 times)
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« Reply #105 on: Sep 04, 2010, 08:56 PM »

How the Virgo archetype manifests on Individual and Collective levels (eg nations)

Hi Ellen,

Thanks for your thoughtful message.  I've extended our dialogue to briefly cover how the archetype manifests on a collective level.

.......I am looking for "imperfections" as almost a kind of habit.......In a certain sense what I realized is that this tendency is in fact a kind of gift, allowing me to purge distortions and to become more in line with natural law and with my true self.

It's good to read that you are using the Virgo energies in a very natural and productive way.  The awareness of your 'imperfections' allows you to analyze yourself and purge the distortions that are not in line with natural law.  In mastering this for yourself, you will be able to help others who have not yet mastered this technique or who don't possess the awareness.  As an astrologer, you are also the healer.

Ellen said: 
I do find that in my culture (american), it is like a huge social error to mention a negative; you immediately find yourself alienated - people kind of start to run from you. In America you are supposed to aggrandize yourself and this I have found to have become quite compulsive and absolute.

This is very interesting (America is not my culture).  I had been looking at the USA chart and specifically at Neptune in Virgo in the 5th house.  Under the illusion of Neptune, American culture is beguiled by ideals of "the perfect society," idealistic visions, people who sell or promote dreams, deception - and in the 5th house, fun, glamour, entertainment and fashion crazes.  The nation's people can suffer disillusionment when these dreams and fantasies do not succeed in "fixing" society or its people.

I can see how mentioning a "negative" would be a huge social error, that bursts the Neptunian/5th house bubble of the social dream.  You say that the American tendency to exaggerate and enlarge the "American dream" is compulsive and absolute.  In contrast the Virgo archetype would bring realism, discernment, discrimination and healing to the people/the nation. 

Ellen said:
Thinking about the natural vs. man-made guilt thread conversation, we seem to have lost our way with regard to allowing ourselves to tune into those natural guilt feelings that allow us to re-align.  So I'm thinking it would be really important to understand Virgo's tendency towards negativity within this broader understanding - there is a huge amount wrong with our world right now and Virgo, by nature, is going to want to identify that for the purposes of purifying it.  This requires her natural ability to see what is wrong. 

If the people are not in touch with "natural guilt" how will they be able to change their society?  Perhaps "crisis" would force the people to make a critical assessment of what has gone wrong in their culture, in order that positive changes could be made. Which leads us to the true service of Virgo.  The Pluto/Virgo generation are coming into their power now - they are the supreme organizers, with the skill to clean up the planet.  Not only is work needed on the ecosytem, but also individuals who have neglected their duty to care for the planet.

Ellen said: 
The trick I think is to understand that it is a natural process and not a personal identity.  There has also to be the understanding of one's inherent worthiness, which I think is where you were coming from.

Yes, the Virgo archetype describes a natural process.  Distorting natural law has lead to man-made guilt.  Man-made guilt seems to be futile, as it does not lead to true improvements, but to a perpetuation of falseness.
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« Reply #106 on: Sep 05, 2010, 09:10 PM »


Virgo Glyph

* The virgin, purity, sacrifice, motherhood.
* The coils of energy latent in the virgin's essence.
* Sheaf of barley.
* The maiden or virgin holding a ripe ear of wheat (Ceres, Demeter).
* The coiled ‘M’ represents the intestines, a part of the body ruled by Virgo, or the ovaries, vagina and uterus.
* Immaculate conception of the messiah
* MV - "Maria Virgo" or "Virgin Mary"
* Powers of nature within time and space, symbolic of action, inertia and harmony. Struggle of the Spirit in its natural evolution.
* Reflection and the inward development of the self.

Rulership of Virgo

Vulcan ("the Ghost Planet," circling inside the orbit of Mercury)
Chiron (Centaur, between Saturn and Neptune)
Sedna (dwarf planet, Scattered Belt Object)
Eris (dwarf planet, Kuiper Belt Object)

Asteroids correlating to Rulership of Virgo

Ceres (dwarf planet, Kuiper Belt)
Vesta (asteroid, Kuiper Belt)
Pallas Athena (asteroid, Kuiper Belt)
Hygeia (asteroid, Kuiper Belt)

Mythology associated with Virgo

Omphale, Queen of Lydia, from the myth of Heracles
Greco-Roman god Hermes/Mercury

Medical Astrology:  Virgo rulership

Small Intestine
Enteric Nervous System
"gut feelings"
"Second Brain"
Virgo 0-1  Duodenum
Virgo 2  Small Intestine
Virgo 3  Cecum (Appendix)
Virgo 4  Ascending Colon (Large Intestine), Asthma
Virgo 5  Transverse Colon
Virgo 6  Descending Colon
Virgo 7  Rectum
Virgo 8  Abdominal Cavity
Virgo 9  Right Hepatic Lobe, Rheumatic Fever
Virgo 10  Left Hepatic Lobe, Gall, Typhoid Fever
Virgo 11  Ligament Of Trietz And Gall
Virgo 12  Abdominal Aorta
Virgo 13  Hepatic Arteries
Virgo 14  Gallbladder Artery
Virgo 15  Bare Spot Of The Liver
Virgo 16  Hepatic Groove
Virgo 17  Abdominal Muscle
Virgo 18  Serrate Groove
Virgo 19  Left Hepatic Groove
Virgo 20  Bile Duct
Virgo 21  Gall Bladder Duct, Typhoid Fever
Virgo 22  Gall Bladder
Virgo 23  Hepatic Cartilage, Spine
Virgo 24  Hepatic Cartilage And Tendon Of Liver
Virgo 25  Liver, Cancer, Gout, Arthritis
Virgo 26  Abdominal Vein, Suicide
Virgo 27  Hip Veins, Tuberculosis
Virgo 28  Hepatic Veins
Virgo 29  Back Lobes Of Liver
Virgo 29-30  Hepatic Duct
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« Reply #107 on: Sep 07, 2010, 07:41 PM »

Hi all.. what a great thread!!! I just wanted to mention that I'm going to be talking about the Virgo archetype and the Pluto in Virgo generation on Kristen Fontana's radio show on wed 9/8/2010 10-11 am PST. In case you miss will be archived along with all the past guests she has had such as Rose Marcus, Deva etc...

Bright Blessings!!!!

« Reply #108 on: Sep 08, 2010, 10:00 AM »

thanks for the tip, Patricia. I have pluto in virgo/8th natally and now transiting pluto beginning to squat on my ascendent while also squaring my ascendent ruler in transit.  I will be listening for sure.
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« Reply #109 on: Sep 08, 2010, 03:26 PM »


I will definitely be listening! 

Thank you so much for the great resource that you and Kristin offer each month.

« Reply #110 on: Sep 08, 2010, 05:35 PM »

Re: Patricia's talk on Kristin's show:  I have never heard of Capricorn representing dharma, that was news to me.  I thought that was Pisces.  

Really enjoyed the show, thanks!
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« Reply #111 on: Sep 08, 2010, 07:25 PM »

Hi Bluesky.... I believe i was talking about the transiting Pluto in Cap and how it will be trining the natal Pluto in Virgo generation. In that regard...Virgo's association with work and service and capricorn's traditional association with career, brought up to a higher octave, could potentially be the expression of dharma.

« Reply #112 on: Sep 08, 2010, 07:36 PM »

Patricia, thanks for clarifying that concept.
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« Reply #113 on: Sep 10, 2010, 06:55 PM »

Hi everyone,

I think we've covered the Virgo archetype, perhaps not completely, but sufficiently enough to grasp the core meaning.

We've looked briefly at these specific correlations:

1. Possible ways the archetype may have been wounded in past lives due to patriarchal conditioning (eg historical correlations).

2. Possible ways the archetype may have been carried over into the present life (behavioural patterns, distortion, resistance, trauma, shock, etc.).

3. An outline of the archetype in its empowered form, as an expression of the Natural Law of giving, sharing and inclusion.

4. Comparison of the archetype in the Consensus / Individuated / Spiritual stages.

5. How the archetype manifests on Individual and Collective levels (eg nations).

6. Physiological associations with the archetype.  "Why" does any particular physiology/health issue etc correlate to the archetype.

7. How to assist clients with difficult issues by improving/evolving that area.

Any thoughts on any of the following:

8. To discuss sample charts with a prominent Virgo archetype.

9. Sign polarity catch phrases, eg Virgo/Pisces - "practical idealism."

10. An outline of Venus in Virgo.

11. An outline of Mars in Virgo.

12. Other correlations.

It's been great sharing and learning together on this thread.  

A few of us agreed it would be a good idea to cover each archetype, so at this stage, would anyone like to host the next thread on the Libra archetype?
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« Reply #114 on: Sep 10, 2010, 07:21 PM »

THANK YOU Rad for your guidance in moderating this thread and to everyone who took part.

Love, Peace and Blessings
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« Reply #115 on: Sep 11, 2010, 01:58 AM »

Hi Patricia,

Thanks for the amazing depth of thought put into your treatment of the Pluto in Virgo generation - as well as Pluto's transit through Capricorn - on Kristin's radio show recently.

Your compassionate words have relieved some of the inner pervading feeling of guilt, "not feeling ready," as well as shedding light (and release) on a few internal issues.  I like how you described the "internalization" of the Virgo archetype - because so much processing takes place on that inner level.

I will add that "words are very healing to the Virgo archetype!"  The information, insights, truths, explanations, techniques communicated through you and EA act in a very profound and direct way to heal the Virgo psyche.
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« Reply #116 on: Sep 12, 2010, 06:56 AM »

Thanks Linda.. I like that thought... that words are healing for mercury ruled Virgo...very nice :-)


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« Reply #117 on: Apr 14, 2011, 12:07 AM »

I know this is an old topic, and I hope it's ok for me to post here. But I'm new to this site, and I really enjoyed reading all of these posts, the past couple of days. I wish I'd have been here previously, to be able to comment in a timely manner.  

I think I may have something of value to add, in regards to the Virgo Archetype, and the question that was posed, as to which sign correlates to Distortion. What I'm adding to this old post, is still in connection to Virgo, as well. Not just Distortion. I'm hoping to not only answer, with my opinion, as to which sign correlates to Distortion, but to also show how this is connected to Virgo.

So here goes. I only hope it makes sense and I'm able to keep this as concise as possible.

Hi Ellen,

Yes I can see your point about the relationship between patriarchy and the lack of mentoring relationships within primarily immigrant cultures. You wrote: "If one considers the whole phenomenon of forced immigration to be a result of the patriarchy (domination, violence towards others, ownership/possession,  resulting in massive displacement of populations, etc.), one can see patriarchy at play to some degree." Thank you for helping me to understand. And yet the archetype continues to exist in various forms within patriarchy; so perhaps my point was that they are not mutually exclusive and can coexist.

I'm glad my thoughts were helpful. Just asking the question helped me to formulate an answer, so I am learning in the process as well.


"If one considers the whole phenomenon of forced immigration to be a result of the patriarchy (domination, violence towards others, ownership/possession,  resulting in massive displacement of populations, etc.), one can see patriarchy at play to some degree."

In my mind, I think 'Bingo'.

If Patriarchy = Distortion, Distortion = Gemini.

Gemini is the sign associated with Distortion. Virgo comes after and cleans the mess up. Gemini seems to be individual facts, where as Virgo takes on the role of synthesis. Virgo says, "Your grammar, Gemini, is witty, but horrific. Please dot your "i's" and cross your "t's". I before e, except after c, and swell, ain't and y'all, are really hideous ways for you to be communicating."

Sagittarius is natural law, and it's polarity point is Gemini. Sagittarius is expansion, and foreign lands, learning about other cultures, long distance travels, and seeing the bigger picture. It is the higher truth, and Virgo works to clean up any mess Sagittarius's Polarity point, Gemini, may have left behind, so we can get back to the Natural Law.

Gemini has all of the pieces of the puzzle, Virgo takes the time to find out where each of the pieces of the puzzle fit together, and once that is done, we have the bigger picture in Sagittarius. Then we hang it on a wall as Art, and call it Pisces.

Gemini is associated with short trips. Our neighbors. Roads. Streets. Anyone who has traveled in a small rural town, can clearly see 'trickery' at work on the roads signs, which point to direction only obvious to people who have lived there a very long time.  

Gemini is also correlated to our siblings. Siblings are important, because they are the first people that we come to know in life. The glimpse of someone outside of myself. The first instinct of another.

But, a group of siblings, is not even described as a whole set, it is not all encompassing, and their roles are not inherently equal in the typical mindset of a family, be it American or not, and be it that their parents love them 'differently but equally'. This is a global assumption, that is inherent even in a persons psychology of who they are, and what they represent from the youngest age, and what role they first had in life.

We have "Big Brother" "Little Brother" "Middle Brother", "Big Sister", "Little Sister" "Middle Sister", "Twin Sister", "Half-sister", "Half-Brother", "Adopted Sister", "Adopted Brother", "Step-Sister", "Step-Brother", "The First Born", "The Baby", "The Middle Child"...down to "Adopted Older Sister", "Adopted Older Brother", ect., ect. This is disregarding the fact of the children often playing the role of parent, and vice versa, and which family member really had dominion over that particular household, the mother, father, grandfather, landlord, ect.

One of the first things we learn in life, is categorization. "I am the child of John and Jane, and my brother is Billy, and my sister is Lucy. I am 5 years old. I live on such and such street, and I have a dog named Spot. I am named Mary, and this is my life." We are told who we are. We are given name badges to wear to school, so the teachers can point us to the correct bus in Kindergarten, often in Uniforms, or clothing which clearly distinguishes us as children. Children who live on this street, please stand here. Children who live on that street, please stand here.

When first learning communication, learning to read, even story books are typical of roles, and the pictures are very typical pictures of what a typical, nuclear family would appear. The women are in dresses, the men are in jeans or slacks. There is typically one boy child, and one girl child, and the male is typically the elder, the care taker of his younger sister.  

Take India for example, where 99% of all marriages, are still arranged marriages. Their caste system, is only a larger version, of categorization, that was previously mentioned with siblings roles, in the American family (although siblings roles are even more highly pronounced in India).

An arranged marriage takes place, by the parents selecting a partner for their child, of a specific caste, a specific skin tone, a specific salary, and a specific village/city of origin, a specific education, and so forth. This is so the Son-in-law, or the Daughter-in-law, will be able to most easily fit into the family dynamics.

Let me try to make what I see clear, with an example from the chart of India, when they won Independence.

August 15th, 1947 at 12 am.

Uranus was deposited in the 1st house in Gemini when India actually gained their Independence. If Sagittarius is the Higher Truth, and Gemini lost sight with the Higher Truth, the only thing left is bare facts, pieces of a puzzle, that do not fit together to form something larger, and more encompassing. With Uranus in Gemini being so prominently placed in the 1st house, one may gather that there is Traumatic experience for India, with categorization of it's neighbors, or siblings. My daughter should marry a Brahmin, because otherwise, what would the neighbors think? My daughter cannot make more money than her husband...what would the neighbors think?

The chart also has four planets, placed in Leo, in the 3rd house, including Pluto. Since the South Node of India is in Scorpio in the 6th house, Pluto in the 3rd house conjunct Mercury, is even more important, and India is most definitely a male dominated Society.

One could also reference Hitler's Pluto in Gemini and Neptune in Gemini conjunction in the 8th house. If Gemini were indeed connected with Race ideas, (As I am postulating), and the 8th house is purification or death or cleansing, and Pluto is obsession, Racial Cleansing becomes loud and clear with this marker alone.

"Blonde hair, blue, white skin, tall...You may live." "Dark skin, brown eyes, black hair, Jewish...Get on the train with the others."

Criticism, is the result of categorization (Gemini) gone awry. Self-hatred, or criticism, is connected with Virgo. The parts of something, versus the whole, are deeply analyzed in Virgo.

"Massive Displacement of Populations."

Another example, perhaps the most absolutely profound example of Patriarchy and where it can lead, and it's association with Gemini, and Trauma, would be in the chart of the Hiroshima Bombing.

Uranus was in Gemini, exactly conjunct the Midheaven and to a lesser degree, conjunct Mars, at the time of bombing. There is no great example I can think of, than Patriarchal displacement on a massive scale, as it relates to the state of mankind. Uranus's ruler, Mercury, was in Virgo in the 12th house. I believe this could speak to ongoing health issues related with the bombing.

But Distortion, the first square to come from the Matrix in Pisces, the Polarity of Higher Truth in Sagittarius, the area which Virgo, (sharing a planet Mercury) has to come in and do major house cleaning? That is in Gemini, and the power of this sign shouldn't be underestimated, although funnily enough, Mercury is often underestimated. Is Gemini/Mercury, associated with Patriarchy specifically? No. In Hiroshima's chart, Saturn was the ruler of the South Node, with Saturn in uncomfortable Cancer in the 10th. But, Mercury/Gemini/3rd house, seems to open doors for Distortion of truth, and Patriarchy is one example of that.

So, how, inherently, is Gemini associated with Distortion, as I see it? Because it is associated with Categorization, and without a balance with Sagittarius and Natural Law and Knowledge, Gemini could distort our perceptions of ourselves, and our neighbors. The concept of "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself", or "Love thy neighbor", are made impossible when labels, and differences, and heritage and country, are made so prominent. Virgo plays a role in purifying these problems. If Virgo is criticism of self, then the onslaught of Gemini is also clearly understood in "Seperate but equal", when the young child is asked what color doll is more beautiful, in Brown v. Board of Education, and the White doll is chosen, again, and again, and again, by the African-American primary school students.

"The plaintiffs in Brown asserted that this system of racial separation, while masquerading as providing separate but equal treatment of both white and black Americans, instead perpetuated inferior accommodations, services, and treatment for black Americans." -Wikipedia,

Categorization, and specifically focusing on differences, instead of what connects us, can lead to self-criticism, as shown in Virgo's shadow side. It is up to Virgo to synthesis this, and prepare what is learned for the fire of Sagittarius.

I hope that I stayed as close to the topic as possible, but this really intrigued me. If I said anything out of line, or innappropriate, please point that out. If I should avoid posting on topics this old, please tell me. I thought it would fit with the subject material. As I stated, I'm new to this forumand EA, and although I read the rules, I understand if I've broken any, but not unless I'm told. Shocked)



« Last Edit: Apr 14, 2011, 12:59 AM by Pattycr » Logged

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« Reply #118 on: Apr 14, 2011, 12:29 AM »

In my previous post, the majority of information was about Gemini. But, I only did that, because it felt odd to simply state, "Gemini is the sign associated with Distortion" and to leave it at that. It seemed like something which needed to be expanded upon. And, I recognize that this is merely my opinion. Throughout the charts, I attempted to also show how Virgo/Mercury/Pluto/Nn/Sn/and 6th house played into dynamics of Gemini's role as well.

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« Reply #119 on: Apr 14, 2011, 09:33 PM »

Hi Patty,

Discussion on the archetypes from an EA perspective has not ended so it's okay (at this stage) to add more posts to the "Archetype threads."  I'm sure we'll hear from management if we need to change this arrangement.

A very interesting read.  I could follow your reasoning.  However, ALL the archetypes have a distorted/undistorted expression, and we were taught that distortion (as a result of repression) began during the Capricorn sub-age of the Age of Cancer.  Patriarchal distortion has come to dominate the entire reality of the planet.  Gemini is an archetype that has become distorted (along with all the others) - and is probably not the CAUSE of distortion itself.

Please see Stacie's quote:  

I just wanted to confirm that from an EA point of view, the archetype of distortion does indeed correlate with Capricorn.  Distortion is the natural result when any natural impulse becomes repressed over time.  The natural impulse to give, share, and include..the core principle underlying all natural laws..became progressively repressed when the patriarchy started to take over.  This led over time to the progressive distortion OF that natural impulse, and the distorted RESULT that we now see manifest is the impulse to put one’s own self-interest above, and at the expense of, the interests of all others..and to exclude all those who are not seen as a direct means to one’s desired end.  This distorted impulse of self-interest and exclusion is now what underlies the superstructure of rules, protocols, and norms that now dominate the entire reality of the planet--i.e. man-made law.  Just as repression of what is natural leads to distortion, distortion itself progressively leads to delusion if effort is not made to effect realignment to what is natural (natural trine from Virgo to cap, natural sextile from cap to Pisces).  And this is exactly what humanity’s distorted man-made laws have become:  a delusional replacement of the natural laws Goddess designed/created to govern the entire living universe itself.

I'm a student of EA, so I'm hoping Stacie or Rad can respond to you, to offer further clarification.

In the meantime, the Gemini archetype thread will begin in about 5 week's time, and our host, Lia, may be able to shed further light on your thoughts re Gemini.  

Thanks for your enthusiastic involvement.
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