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Author Topic: Guru-disciple path  (Read 1779 times)
mountainheather
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« on: Aug 24, 2010, 08:26 PM »

Hi all,
I recently read Autobiography of a Yogi and am now reading The Essence of Self-Realization.  I am wondering about the necessity of having a guru in developing spiritually. My impression is Yogananda would endorse this approach.  Is this way of spiritual development (guru-disciple)natural law? Also what in the chart (in addition to their evolutionary stage)would indicate the type of spiritual path a soul could choose to align with, optimize their efforts so to speak.  Thanks, and warm blessings to you all. Heather   
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 25, 2010, 08:36 AM »

Hi Heather,

 Yes, the very nature of Natural Laws on this Earth correlate to the need for almost all Souls, at certain points in their own evolutionary journey, to have a guru or teacher that is more evolved than them self. This has been true since humans have been on this Earth. Long, long, ago when humans were living in small,  nomadic, groups there was always one who was considered to be the Shaman, the keeper of the spirit, that guided that small group. And certain Souls within those small groups would also become an apprentice to such a figure, such a Soul. So long, long ago even before there were such things as monasteries, formal religions, what came to be called gurus, there was this natural structure within which humans organized themselves. The function of a guru, or a shaman, etc, is 'guide' the inner development, evolution, of the Souls who have formed a relationship to such a Soul. As a Soul evolves within by progressively expanding it's consciousness to embrace the various spheres of the Universal there are many potential pitfalls that can occur that can destabilize the Soul, to cause confusion, because the very center of gravity within it's consciousness changes from the immediacy of the ego, to the Soul itself. And it is this very transition of the center of gravity within a Soul's consciousness that the function and role of the Guru, teacher, or shaman is for.

And there are many  different 'types' of gurus, shamans, and teachers to reflect the individual natures/ needs of any given Soul. The birth chart of any Soul reflects their core natures: what types of Souls that they are. One of the beauties of EA is being able to determine the nature of any given Soul.

God Bless, Rad
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Oliver Fred
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 25, 2010, 11:25 PM »

Hi Rad,

I wanted to ask if the archetype of guru/shaman to disciple is always within the same gender. I've been reading "Measuring the Night Vol.2" and from what I got it was mostly a YES answer, but also sometimes not always with the same gender. I ask of course to see if there is a way to distinguish how to tell in the birthchart, which one is appropriate. For instance, with gender switching involved. Thanks for any input. Take care.

-Oliver Fred
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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 26, 2010, 08:26 AM »

Hi Oliver Fred,

 No, there is no Natural Law that correlates to the guru/shaman relationship and same gender. None. One of the core Natural Laws is to share, give, and include. Thus, to exclude based on gender would be a violation of Natural Laws. Any given Soul is NATURALLY drawn to another Soul who is at the evolutionary level of a guru or shaman. Whatever that gender is that such a Soul is drawn too, naturally, has it's own reasons that are unique to the nature of that Soul. Of course, that can include gender switching dynamics as well as many, many other dynamics that are the determinants of these natural attractions to a Soul who is serving in the capacity of a guru, shaman, and are natural teachers.

God Bless, Rad
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mountainheather
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2010, 08:45 AM »

Hi Rad,
Thank you for your reply.
When you say there are many types of guru ,shaman ,teachers would that person have perhaps mastered their discipline (for example martial arts, herbalism, hands on healing, counselling etc), but they are using this as an avenue to point the way home spiritually for their students?  So generally speaking the teacher can take many forms but the intent is the same or is it not so simplistic as that ?
Thanks, blessings, Heather
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Rad
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2010, 10:58 AM »

Hi Heather,
 
 The answer is yes, and it is as 'simple' as that.

God Bless, Rad
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bluesky
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2010, 03:44 PM »

Is martial arts mastery considered a spiritual path?
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mountainheather
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2010, 05:22 PM »

Thanks Rad!
Heather
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Steve
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 26, 2010, 06:04 PM »

Is martial arts mastery considered a spiritual path?

Hi Bluesky

an obvious answer that comes to me is, it depends on where the teacher (and student) is inwardly oriented.  if their inner motivation is using the martial art as a way to develop discipline in deepening their inner connection to the spiritual, then yes.  if the orientation is more like becoming the most proficient, strongest, best, most concentrated etc martial arts master or student that ever lived, then no.  that is an egocentric orientation, not a spiritual one.  

an issue in modern times is people who come from the egocentric orientation have often learned all the language that goes with the spiritual orientation, and often have thoroughly convinced themselves that is where they are at.  so an undiscerning student may hear the spiritual words and believe the teacher comes from a place other than where they actually come from.  in those cases at times they will feel in their gut a disconnect between the teacher's words and how being around this teacher actually feels .  (Some teachers genuinely desire to come from that place, they just are not there yet. And have convinced themselves they are further along than they really are).  Jeffrey said many times the true teacher only points the way home, never to themselves.  That is one way to determine if the martial arts teacher is truly on a spiritual path.
Steve
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bluesky
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 26, 2010, 06:44 PM »

Hi Steve, thanks for responding.  It sounds to me like you are describing the difference between an individuated and a spiritual orientation towards martial arts.  I have been curious about this, also ind. v. spiritual orientation towards yoga - yoga teachers focused on the body vs. those encouraging a connection between mind and body.  Most of all, which "arts" can be considered spiritual and why. Your answer definitely helps.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 26, 2010, 06:57 PM »

Hi all,

My yoga teacher starts off almost every class reminding us that we have showed up not because we are trying to look good, or get on the yoga journal cover, or become stronger, healthier. But because we can help remove more suffering from this world through our practice. He reminds us to treat each asana as a meditation in and of itself and to surrender the fruits of all our efforts. This is an authentic spiritual teacher.

So many yoga teachers and teachers of the like are NOT about the Truth. That's the case in most situations I feel. Bluesky, I see it that way too- yoga can be consensus, individuated or spiritual.

Authentic spiritual teaching can take place in ANY context. Literally, for GOD's sake, JWG did that with astrology- which until he came along, was not really available as a spiritual path (it was, for the most part, an individuated state science). Socrates in the book "way of the peaceful warrior" did that with ordinary living... and gymnastics.
Ari Moshe
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bluesky
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 26, 2010, 07:28 PM »

Hi all,

Ari, thanks for your input.  I remember reading an article online with a yoga master (one of the guys who was credited with bringing it to the west, so he was considered the "real deal") and he lamented the fact that so many people were using yoga as a means to get what he called the "hard body" look! and it didn't seem to mean anything to them other than that.

I have especially been thinking about martial arts recently because I was wondering "what about spiritual warriors?" - they must exist, how do they practice, etc. Maybe I'm thinking too literally about it, but there must be people going through the spiritual stage with a physical "edge", and this would be a way of channelling it.  I'm thinking of David Carradine in Kung Fu.
« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2010, 07:36 PM by bluesky » Logged
Elen
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 26, 2010, 08:02 PM »

Hi bluesky,

I saw a program the other night about a Shaolin master.  His physical mastery was something else.  Yet, as much as he did delight in his ability to withstand hits and his ability to create force with his body, he stated repeatedly that it was about mastering Chi and that it was spiritual practice.  I could not tell from the program how deep his own spiritual orientation is; the program itself was focusing on his physical prowess.  And, as I said, he seemed to clearly delight in that.  But I don't think delighting in something necessarily means one's relationship to it is not spiritual.  Indeed, that seems like a patriarchal split to say that somehow what is spiritual cannot be delighted in.  Whatever his own spiritual orientation, it seems to me that even just the fact that this is being said, even if it might not be being lived up to, suggests that it might be in fact rooted in that - that there are people practicing it in a way that develops them spiritually.

The movie, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon also comes to mind.  I know it's just a movie, but I thought it did a wonderful job of depicting martial arts as primarily spiritual practice.

I think you can also see this in regular old sports.  I'm thinking of Dan Melman, the gymnist.  He encountered a guru while in college that completely transformed him and his relationship to his sport.  He wrote a book about it, and I know there is also a movie.  I can't remember the name of either, but I'm pretty sure I have his name right, so I'm sure you could find it.  I'd be happy to look into for you, though, if you're interested.  I find his story to be inspiring.



Ellen

PS The Shaolin master is originally from China, now living in New York.  The program was exploring his ability to deliver a deadly force with his fist from only 1 inch away from his target (the one-inch punch).  He is a pretty small guy. I can't think of his name, but I'd be happy to see if I could come up with it if you're interested.
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bluesky
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 26, 2010, 08:51 PM »

Ellen - I checked out shaolin at wikipedia and found David Carradine's character included in it! apparently he was a Shaolin monk on that show...the article contrasted both the internal and external modes of shaolin.  The way you described the man you saw on the tv program makes me think of someone who is totally in the zone.  I'm going to try and find it YouTube, maybe they have it.

I guess my question would be, is it possible for a person to evolve to the spiritual stage and have a streak of violence, which could be transformed by a spiritual practice such as martial arts.
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Steve
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 26, 2010, 10:22 PM »

Quote
I guess my question would be, is it possible for a person to evolve to the spiritual stage and have a streak of violence, which could be transformed by a spiritual practice such as martial arts.

yes
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