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Author Topic: NEW PRACTICE CHART THREAD FOR BEGINNERS  (Read 15814 times)
bluesky
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« Reply #15 on: Nov 10, 2010, 11:06 AM »

Hi Rad, it may take me a day or so to get back to you with my answers - I really have to think about your questions!  thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

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I do have a question about the 7th house north node in relation to the polarity point - are you saying that the person's relationships will reflect whether or not they are actualizing their pluto polarity point?

thanks again.
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2010, 11:38 AM by bluesky » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 10, 2010, 11:48 AM »

Hi bluesky,

"I do have a question about the 7th house north node in relation to the polarity point - are you saying that the person's relationships will reflect whether or not they are actualizing their pluto polarity point?"

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Yes, the 'types' of relationships that will reflect this. It will come down to two distinct types. One will reflect the past of this Soul, it's existing dynamics, and the other will reflect the evolutionary future, intent, of this Soul as symbolized by the N.Node in the 7th relative to the 5th House polarity point of the Souls Pluto.

God Bless, Rad
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bluesky
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 10, 2010, 05:37 PM »

Hi Rad, I have another question I would like to ask before I go back to working on the questions you posed.

Could it be that the person's response to the 11th house pluto was to become a "group of one" (since this could have been necessary)?

********************
I will try not ask more one-off questions after this, instead will try and roll them into my next post with the answers (could be a couple of days for that).

thank you!
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Rad
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 11, 2010, 09:42 AM »

Hi bluesky,

"Could it be that the person's response to the 11th house pluto was to become a "group of one" (since this could have been necessary)?"

**************************************

The Soul in prior life would feel independent and different in a group context yet, paradoxically, NEED to be within a group context in order to detach from it in order to discover it's own individuality.


God Bless, Rad
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Dhyana
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 12, 2010, 01:56 AM »

EA BEGIINNERS PRACTICE (#1)
DHYANA


Pluto in the 11th house

South Node in the 1st House

The core evolutionary desires that have proceeded this lifetime for the 11th house Pluto person was to break free from a confining self definition that has come into being by outdated identification with the types of societies, peer groups and friends in which they have been overly influenced by in the past and show up early on in this life. This individual will have a keen sensitivity to the group consciousness and societal expectations. This person/soul will have crystallized patterns of identification within this context.

They may often feel an obsessive (Pluto) need to somehow mold themselves to fit into a certain peer group that they feel secure with often at the expense of their own unique individuality.

Or there can be the very opposite way that this can play out –that would be that the person will strongly rebel against these societal expectations they were raised and/or peer groups, and therefore they may demonstrate an obsessive need to  appear  “different”--acting out a rebellion of sorts from the group expectations and norms --still they may be doing so at the expense of their own authentic unique individuality -- even if this way that it plays out is more subtle and "seems" or "appears" to be more  individualisitc than the conforming way it may play out.

In which direction this will go can only be found by observing and correlating the other placements and aspects in this chart.

But in either scenario,what is present is the same issue --  the issue of SOCIETAL expectations, peer group influences/friend issues and expectations. These specific influences will be the underlying motivating dynamic of the life.

The 11th house Pluto soul has chosen to take birth in order to work out the karma around these themes and break free from the ties of identification around the group or herd influences specifically. These are the influences that are unconsciously motivating this individual and the lifetime will be about bringing consciousness to these unconscious motivations one way or another.

Based on the South Node placement in the First House as the mode of operation or the roles that this soul has played in the past in order to actualize or play out it's 11th House Pluto desires, it may make sense to say that this particular persons life will play out as the latter scenario mentioned --non conformist. (I think Iwould know better if this were actually the case of how this individual would play this out, if I knew the sign on the 1st house???) ...

...Anyways, to continue --This person will choose roles that make them believe they are different --pushing against societal and peer expectations and influences trying to claim an identity apart. (1st house SN). Playing roles in life that emphasize a conjured up identity that stands alone. (SN 1st house). This may very well be someone who actually does not know their own identity at all (identity crisis) but is believing in the identity they created/conjure up, by standing out and apart from "other"--standing apart from the group/society. (1st house SN). Believing in and behaving as if they are this identity is how they maintain their feelings of security.
 
Yet at the core, it is the 11th house influences that are actually forming this seeming identity in which they are clinging to for security, which is all motivated unconsciously by this 11th house Pluto.

The energy of the first house is one of an over-focus on ones own identity/self -- a strong imbalanced focus on them self in order to maintain a feeling of emotional security. A SN in the 1st is learning in this lifetime about the delicate  balance of relating one to other as an equal ( NN in the 7th house). They are to initiate relationships with others to help loosen the strong-hold of lifetimes of relating narscisitically to their self image alone.  

The initiation of relationships with others will be forced upon them each time they implode upon themselves and lose foothold of their prior constructed identity --the idenityt that is fabricated, based on that 11th house Pluto unconscious identifications with societal values etc.

This very implosion upon them self will more or less force them into relationship with others (H7) even in spite of them feeling as if in doing so they will loose their own (shaky) sense of identity.

Basically what I am trying to say is that the way this person/soul forms  and crystallized their own identity (SN H 1) is soley based on the past influences of the societies and peer group expectations --Either in strongly conforming, and thus this conforming self has become their identity OR by rebelling against these influences and the identity is based on that rebelling --Both identities being mainly unconsciously motivated, thus being an inauthentic identity and therefore false --an over-focus on a false identity (SN 1st house). It will be in the arena of one to one connections with other people that this image they have of them self will be mirrored back to them -and they will find them self being challenged and/or supported, or put back into unconsciousness depending on who they choose to be with and/or how they choose to use each relationships (opening up and becoming more aware or closing/shutting down).

The next step in this souls evolution correlates to the Pluto Polarity Point in the 5th House. The way this evolutionary intention is to be actualized is by way ot their North Node in the 7th house. I would explain this by saying that the evolutionary intention of this soul is to find their AUTHENTIC identity --their very own unique and creative self (5th house PPP).  This individual is meant to shine as a unique expression of life that is INHERENT in them, not molded out of a motivation to “not be” what I am expected to be –but to BE WHAT  I AM (hope that made sense) --In other words, creative self actualization!

And as I already touched upon above --how this person will find this out is via the energy of the 7th house.(NN) –initiating and being in various one to one relationships with other people rather than just groups. By forming all kinds of different relationships this soul will start comparing and contrastin them self to others in order that they can find out who they really uniquely  are and who they uniquely are not.

In the end, if this person chooses the path of evolution, they will be able to rejoin the society with a firm established sense of their authentic self that is not under the influence of either conforming or rebelling, but just contributing to the society from their own creative self actualized way of being.
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2010, 11:15 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 12, 2010, 10:18 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

 Very good first effort on your part, and your EA reasoning was very solid. And, yes, in the end it is so necessary to understand the exact evolutionary state of the Soul to know exactly how the Soul will manifest within the totality of the archetypal spectrum of these archetypes. It is entirely possible, for example, that the Soul does indeed have a very authentic identity within itself in the context of the groups that it interacts with. This would begin to occur from the individuated evolutionary state and beyond. Yet, even then, the 11th House Pluto Soul would be 'dependent' on the group interaction so as to validate that authentic identity because of the group interaction. And that is exactly one of the core intentions of the 5th House Pluto: to fully actualize from within itself without the dependent need of the group to validate that inner actualization of the Soul. 

 There are many, many other dynamics to understand within this paradigm. But, so far, you have done a very good job.

 God Bless, Rad
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Skywalker
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 12, 2010, 10:57 AM »

Hi Rad and all,

Here is my go at it, I don´t have the Pluto book at the moment but have read it quite extensively.

Thanks for the time and energy to go thru our work here, am looking forward to your feedback and corrections.


Practice chart 1

Pluto in the 11th, S.node in 1st

 A Soul with Pluto in the 11th house will be defined at a core level by a desire to be different and detached from the majority of people in its social environment. The soul will have had prior lives in which it desired to rebel against social conventions of all kinds as a way of discovering that which it really is. The 11th house, Uranus and Aquarius correlate with the archetype of rebellion and liberation from the known as JWG teaches, with Pluto located there it indicates that this Soul has learned to find security in an objective and detached manner. By standing back and observing. This Soul will define and secure itself by detaching from an experience or situation and rejecting anything that it doesn’t indentify with. In other words thru objective analysis it will rebel against that which tries to fit it into any type of mould of what it should or should not be. The Soul has been and is trying to discover its own unique individuality within the context of society. The Soul does this by defining what it is NOT.

This will be the type of individual that has difficulty fitting in a group as it has had past lives in which the intention was to detach from external impositions of any kind, including peer pressure from friends or those in their inner circle. Trying to find its own unique identity by rebelling against what society imposes, the individual has learnt to stand apart from the crowd and feel safe in its own objective perspective of reality. This can create a sense of alienation and loneliness since the person will always be in a state of rebellion, even against those close, who do not fit into that which the person believes to be right. The person will choose to relate to people who think in a similar fashion, people who share his/her views and social beliefs (or lack of) and will rebel against the old ways or, traditional values that in his/her mind are obsolete and do not serve the current times the person is living in.

The person will be interested in freedom and can be a natural humanitarian who idealizes a world where everyone has equal rights and is seen as a whole, unique individual. Instead of a number in a social machine that swallows individuality and human rights.  

It is possible that the person has subconscious past life traumas of not being accepted by those considered friends and, by society in general, which can re-enforce the desire to keep emotional and psychological distance from almost everyone. Since Pluto in the 11th house finds security by rebelling against that which it is not or doesn’t agree with, in turn others can also rebel against the 11th house Pluto person, forcing the individual back upon itself in order to analyze its own attitude towards society.  Others can feel that this is someone who shakes their sense of security by challenging the way society is constructed. The 11th house Pluto individual will want to break free from old ways of being in society and this can create an inner frustration as the other people or the environment can reject the ideas put presented, because of their own need for stability and self consistency. This can lead to a destructive, rebellious attitude based on the need for change and evolution, fuelled by frustration of not being accepted for their way of thinking.

The Soul has its S.node in the first house which will correlate with a Soul that in the past created an egocentric identity that listens to no one and goes its own way no matter what. Relative to the 11th house Pluto the person would desire total freedom to pursue a lifestyle that reflected its true unique and individual nature. The person could have a sense of special destiny that nothing could get in the way of. Not even intimate relationships, as they can be time and energy consuming. Relationships require compromise, which is something this person would not be good at. Quite the opposite. The person would rebel against relationships of an intimate nature as they require the ability to listen to another’s reality as it is for them. The person could also rebel against the typical roles in relationships, as it is looking to individuate and de-condition from that which suppresses its true inherent nature. Many relationships will seem below their true potential for this individual and will seem to throw them back into the “herd” type mentality that they have been trying to detach from for lifetimes. (S.node in 1st relative to Pluto in the 11th) Sexually the person will still have urges and needs and could be attracted to people who are also looking to individuate. The person will be attracted to those that reflect his/her own alienation from society and would want to bond with people who are as different as he/she is. The person would use sex as a way to experiment and learn about him/her-self and could use people for the purpose of serving ulterior needs and desires, moving on shortly after those desires were satisfied.

The souls evolutionary desire is to integrate into society and use its uniqueness as a way of bringing its talents to the world. The Polarity point being  the fifth house or Leo, correlates with a subconscious evolutionary desire and need to take charge of ones life and be able to live in a way that is an expression of its unique self. Its like saying “ok now I rebelled and discovered that which I am by rejecting that which I am not, now I know what I am... I will give my contribution to the world, one that no one else can give, as what I will give is my unique creative self”
The polarity point in the fifth house correlates with a need for the soul to be captain of its ship and sail it to the desired destination.

The north node is the evolving ego the Soul needs to develop relative to the Polarity point. The north node located in the 7th house indicates the need to learn to relate to others on an individual and equal basis without the fear of losing its identity or freedom. The soul will need to learn how to compromise and listen to the needs of their partners and others in general. To think of others needs as being just as important as their own. Relative to the 11th house Pluto the person will need to understand others do not all see the world as they do and each individual has their own unique process of individuating, growing and evolving. By initiating a variety of relationships the individual will learn to recognize the individuality of others.

Relative to the fifth house polarity point the soul will need to relate to others in order to be able to actualize itself creatively. This can be done in a team effort of balancing individual needs vs the needs of the partner or group. By understanding their values and meeting them half way, there can be mutual support which will lead to growth in the area that the soul desires (polariy point). The soul will progressively get the needed feedback and support from others as it progresses to meet them on fair and equal terms and acknowledges that in society there is a need for interdependence.
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Rad
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 12, 2010, 11:28 AM »

Hi Skywalker,

 Very, very good EA reasoning relative to this paradigm. The essence of your analysis would apply to all Souls in this paradigm that were in the individuated evolutionary state and beyond. In the first stage individuated the Soul, of course, would still want to have it's feet in both worlds: the consensus and the individuated.

 There are of course millions of Souls with 11th House Pluto's that are not in the individuated state, or beyond. And thus, for those, the essence of your analysis would not apply. See if you can come up with an analysis that would apply to those within the consensus state. Some of the U.S. presidents have had 11th House Pluto's for example: The first Bush, LBJ, and Clinton. And of course they all were within the 3rd Stage of Consensus evolutionary condition.

God Bless, Rad
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Skywalker
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 12, 2010, 12:06 PM »

Rad,

Thank you for your feedback. I was looking to write regardless of the evolutionary state and grasp the core dynamics. Next week I will add additional information regarding those in the consensus state.
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begreen
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 12, 2010, 01:19 PM »

S.Node in the 1st
Pluto's polarity point 5th
N.Node in the 7th

Pluto in the 11th house desires to experience itself as an evolving force of freedom. An 11th house Pluto individual inherently needs to free itself from the known and from any stale patterns that limit its self-discovery. This need implies detachment from its own subjective mind and an objective awareness of the whole.

Through that awareness, an understanding is developed of how each of the individual parts that make up the whole (as ego, as son, as friend, as member of a group, society, or nation) contribute to that whole. The Soul’s desire, as implied by the 5th house polarity point, to actualize its awareness of itself as a unique individual is crucial to its evolutionary intent.
It must take charge of its own destiny and implement what it discovers about itself into the experience of its life. In fully embodying his specialness while maintaining objective understanding of the whole, he can act upon his individual purpose and link it to a societal cause. This will ultimately lead him to revolutionize and transform (himself and the whole), and allow for him to serve the whole as a crystal clear transmitter of what is not yet known.

In order to actualize the 11th house desire for the individual to experience itself as an evolving force of freedom, this Soul would have lived many lifetimes in which it was subject to realities where certain social rules, conventions, and ideas were expected to be followed, yet within these confines, constantly felt itself different from others. Synthesized with its 1st house S node mode of operation, which secures the individual with independence, self-reliance, and an instinctive autonomous nature, this Soul would have perpetuated being an “outsider” and not needing others.

It might come into this life highly protective of itself, involved solely in its own mission, and resistant to relating with any person or thing that would prevent its individuality. It could come across as a rebel without a cause- having this innate impulse for liberation but nothing to liberate from having isolated itself from people, groups, social scenes, etc. Since the Soul has been wired to realize its individuality through being subject to a group then liberating and detaching from it, its self-realization is essentially contingent upon its realization of others and its ability to relate to any person or anything at all, as implied by 7th house N node.
Therein lies the paradox.
Staying on its solo path and relying only on itself (1st house S node) can keep its sense of freedom dependent only on how different it is from the people around him and precipitate a self-fulfilling prophesy of endless entrapment.

In order for the Soul to evolve its consciousness, it needs to seek out other fringe-folk and initiate relationships with them (7th House Node). In doing that, the individual sets itself up to be reflected by the objectivity and open-mindedness in the others- qualities it’s familiar with in itself. That mirroring allows for the individual to feel resonance with these souls and develop trust in them. As these bonds deepen, it inevitably becomes aware of the different uniqueness of each person. While its focus on another remains through its “big picture” lens, it begins to understand how and why its connection even exists.

To fully give itself to partnering with others in relationship while maintaining its own individuality requires interdependence, which gives 11th House Pluto the perfect opportunity to radically free itself from what it known about “freedom” altogether.
Relative to the 5th house polarity point, its will to actualize and share its own ideas will enable the individual to freely be who it is as it continues to see clearly who it is not.
It will embrace who it discovers itself to be as an individual and evolve its sense of freedom, realizing that which had truly prevented his individuality was his own subjective mind.
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Dhyana
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 12, 2010, 03:37 PM »

Hi Rad,

It was great to get your feedback! Thank you.

If this soul were in a consensus state, then would the need to individuate and bring that creative uniqueness (h5 ppp) back into society still be present? Or would they be bringing back a more conformist contribution(h5 ppp)?? I am confused about how that would play out in consensus --especially 2nd stage consensus or even 3rd?

thanks
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2010, 03:48 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 13, 2010, 09:50 AM »

Begreen,

 Your analysis was within the realm of archetypal possibilities relative to the paradigm we are working with. The analysis would reflect those primarily within the 2nd Stage of the Individuated evolutionary condition. Even is this specific evolutionary condition that your analysis reflects there are other evolutionary intentions that have not been addressed in your analysis. You may wish to try to uncover them and repost. Good job so far.

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #27 on: Nov 13, 2010, 10:02 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

"If this soul were in a consensus state, then would the need to individuate and bring that creative uniqueness (h5 ppp) back into society still be present? Or would they be bringing back a more conformist contribution(h5 ppp)?? I am confused about how that would play out in consensus --especially 2nd stage consensus or even 3rd?"

*************************************************************

Yes, in the consensus state such a Soul would still feel within itself that it has something special or unique to contribute to the society in which it lived that had a direct application to that society of birth: it's context. Examples of the 3rd Stage are reflected in some of your presidents such as the first Bush, Clinton, and LBJ. Remember LBJ's vision was one of the 'great society' in which there was an essential social equality. He as in fact the great champion of the poor that created all kinds of new social programs that helped them. Even in the 2nd Stage within the consensus such a Soul could still feel it has something different and unique to contribute. Remember one of the archetypal dimensions of the 11th house is of 'inventions'. And, of course, of of the archetypal dimensions of the S.Node in the 1st house is the inner sense or feeling of having a 'special' destiny that requires freedom in order to discover and actualize. There is also an inherent capacity of leadership within it. So in the 2nd Stage of the Consensus that could manifest as something like a welder who develops a new way of welding for example, etc, etc, etc.

*********************************

God Bless, Rad
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begreen
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 13, 2010, 12:50 PM »

hi rad.
are you referring to unadressed evolutionary intentions of 11th house pluto, or of combined pluto with n & s nodes?
can you say more about how the analysis reflects 2nd stage individuated?
thank you,
green
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bluesky
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« Reply #29 on: Nov 13, 2010, 02:12 PM »

Hi Rad and all:

I am wondering if the 11th house pluto archetype in the consensus could, on a neutral level, be simply about progress in the area of improvement of life conditions - ie. upgrading the quality of lifestyle.

any feedback and thoughts would be appreciated.
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