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Author Topic: Sagittarius Archetype  (Read 6709 times)
Stacie
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 05, 2010, 11:20 PM »

Just so I can fully grasp the meaning, could you please give an example of information coming through a person's subjective filter, and then the person experiencing a crisis in order to align with natural law?

An example of this could be as follows:  A handful of sociological leaders issue a proposal to reform the existing health care system in one's country.  The proposal would implement a transition from exclusive control over that system by profit-motivated corporations, to a more universally accessible model of health coverage that would benefit all citizens and not just those who are wealthy, healthy and strong.  The proposed transition would be made possible by allowing government to play some kind of regulatory role in the health care system, which would include alternative low-cost options from which people could choose, as well as existing options through big corporate insurers.  One could interpret such a proposal through a subjective filter that creates an understanding of that proposal as "socialism"...or a secret plan to kill off the elderly by government-rationed medical care.  This interpretation forms the basis of one's belief about the general nature of that proposal, and the moral meaning within it...i.e., one arrives at a generalized belief that the proposal is sinister in it's nature, and really a dishonest cover for a totally different agenda that should be feared.  What we believe determines how we will behave.  Following this example, that behavior might manifest as embracing it as one's 'mission' to defeat the proposal of reform by convincing and converting others to the belief that one has, that it is in fact socialism etc.  The crises is set in motion when one succeeds in one's mission of having convinced x amount of others to embrace the embellished beliefs that one has, converting them to take up the 'mission' of killing the proposal.  The result of this, naturally, would be the decisive rejection of the proposal.  The result of that proposal's rejection becoming the basis of crises for those who get sick and do not have access to the coverage they need in order to receive the medical care that is their god-given birthright.  This resulting in a likely condition where the health issue accelerates and becomes more severe.  That severity potentially causing one's death, and likely before that death, expensive trips to the emergency room that the tax-payers then have to pay for.  This resulting in a growing, out-of-control economic crises for the total country, and the countless ramifications that spiral from there.  Each of the potential 'results' described in this example, and the combined totality of them, are a self-evident product of the natural law of cause and effect..the 'cause' of those results being behavior..that behavior informed by one's personal belief..those beliefs arising from interpreting the information within the proposal through a subjective filter.  The awareness promoting realignment to natural law occurs when we experience the circumstantial crises arising from the choices we've made on the basis of distorted belief vs. natural, self-evident laws.  In this way we discover what is naturally 'true' through the experience of living realities that are defined by its absence.  This realization promotes the inner acceptance of natural law and the desire to live in alignment with it.


Is that example helpful to you for assimilating the concept, Linda?  If you would like another or different example, just say the word..

Stacie
« Last Edit: Dec 06, 2010, 12:31 AM by Stacie » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 05, 2010, 11:48 PM »

You're so sweet Stacie!  I wanted to thank you even before I have read your above post!  I started feeling like I had huge Jupiter lessons to learn  Shocked and I probably do.  So thank you for your response.  I will get back to you soon.
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Stacie
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 06, 2010, 12:26 AM »

and let's not overlook that this is classic 'jovial' jupiterian psychology you are demonstrating here for us Linda, with all your spontaneous thanks and optimisms.....well done!! Grin

just to let you know, i was in the process of adding to what i initially posted bcz i had forgotten to draw the connection of how crises promotes the realignment to natural law...it's not going to be there now as you're reading, but it will magically jupiterishly be there when you're done.  believe me..jupiter..i've got my share of these happy lessons too ;-)

Stacie
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Linda
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 06, 2010, 01:54 AM »

Hi Stacie,

After reading your example, it was very clear that Natural Law had been violated....and I understood how 'belief' is connected to how an individual interprets reality, to how they would behave, to their actions, to the disastrous results of their actions leading to crisis. 

How could the crisis play out on an individual level though?  Could we use the example of a spiritual teacher, and half-truths?  And what would this spiritual teacher's chart look like?

I'd be interested in exploring the "crisis of guilt" based on ideology.

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ari moshe
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 06, 2010, 08:22 AM »

Stacie I really appreciate that example, I got a lot out of that.

Quote
The awareness promoting realignment to natural law occurs when we experience the circumstantial crises arising from the choices we've made on the basis of distorted belief vs. natural, self-evident laws.  In this way we discover what is naturally 'true' through the experience of living realities that are defined by its absence.  This realization promotes the inner acceptance of natural law and the desire to live in alignment with it.

Hi Linda,
Quote
How could the crisis play out on an individual level though?  Could we use the example of a spiritual teacher, and half-truths?  And what would this spiritual teacher's chart look like?

I'd be interested in exploring the "crisis of guilt" based on ideology.

I'm trying to think of well known spiritual teachers that we can use an example.

I can definitely talk about myself in this regard. I grew up as an orthodox Jew, very active in the community and very passionate about Judaism as a system of spiritual truth. There was a time period, (while transiting Pluto was transiting over my natal Jupiter) where I began to develop an honest devotion to find out the truth- all the while becoming aware of the ideological distortion I had been living and acting upon- and experiencing immense guilt based on that. It's kind of an on going process for me to tell you the truth, but there has definitely been some concrete periods.

If it's appropriate, I'd be happy to post my chart with an example of what happened during that Pluto transit.
Ari Moshe
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Linda
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 06, 2010, 02:42 PM »

Galactic Center - 28 deg Sagittarius

Here's a quote by JWG that I have personally found to be true:

In terms of individual chart work simply locate where that 28 degrees of Sagittarius occurs:  by house.  It is exactly there, that 'center of gravity' that any of us can understand truly understand the nature of 'natural' laws.  By focusing there, the natural laws of the archetype, the house in which the 28 degree symbol occurs, can be understood.  Then, like a line of dominoes, by focusing there all the other natural laws that correlate to the totality of nature on Earth can be understood.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 06, 2010, 03:38 PM »

Quote
In terms of individual chart work simply locate where that 28 degrees of Sagittarius occurs:  by house.  It is exactly there, that 'center of gravity' that any of us can understand truly understand the nature of 'natural' laws.  By focusing there, the natural laws of the archetype, the house in which the 28 degree symbol occurs, can be understood.  Then, like a line of dominoes, by focusing there all the other natural laws that correlate to the totality of nature on Earth can be understood.

Of course you post this as the Moon is transiting at 28 degrees Sag. I've found this to be true too in my own meditations. I still don't understand why he calls gc 28, while it's actually 26._ degrees. I've asked about that b4- so far I don't think anyone has provided any explanation about that.
« Last Edit: Dec 06, 2010, 04:02 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 06, 2010, 04:57 PM »

Hi Linda, all
I'm going to take some time to formulate my words b4 posting...
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ari moshe
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 06, 2010, 05:11 PM »

I'm recanting my offer to share my experience here. I'm noticing as i'm writing about this that some strong emotions are coming up for me- more layers. Definitely all relevant to this topic, but more appropriate for me to just be with it.
With Love and gratitude,
Ari Moshe
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Skywalker
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 11, 2010, 07:06 AM »

Galactic Center - 28 deg Sagittarius

Here's a quote by JWG that I have personally found to be true:

In terms of individual chart work simply locate where that 28 degrees of Sagittarius occurs:  by house.  It is exactly there, that 'center of gravity' that any of us can understand truly understand the nature of 'natural' laws.  By focusing there, the natural laws of the archetype, the house in which the 28 degree symbol occurs, can be understood.  Then, like a line of dominoes, by focusing there all the other natural laws that correlate to the totality of nature on Earth can be understood.

Linda,

Would you like to go a little deeper on this topic? I find it very interesting and have very little knowledge about the GC and how it can be interpreted in the natal chart.
Maybe you or someone experienced with this topic could give a few specific examples of how the GC in the houses would represent this "center of gravity"?

Thanks
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Linda
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 11, 2010, 02:07 PM »

Hi Skywalker,

Here's some information about Daemon Souls that correlates to 28 deg Sagittarius conjunct the Galactic Centre:

Quote from Rad:

Daemon is actually a Latin word that the Christians, removing themselves from what Christ actually taught, perverted into the word Demon. According to old Latin dictionaries the word Daemon means 'Souls that are utterly unified with Nature and all of it's natural laws, especially the world of animal and plants, and because of this total union with Nature the become 'messengers of God'. This is why the Christians who became so far removed from the teachings of the original Jesus created cosmologies of Hell that were symbolized by all kinds of weird animals.
All natural Daemon Souls feel a fundamental alienation from most other humans. They are 'home' in nature and naturally aligned with all the 'devas' of nature that many call angles , fairies, and the like. Devas are Souls/ consciousness that are within nature, but veiled from the eyes of most. They also inhabit the life force within various plants. The nervous systems of plants and animals are almost identical to humans. Daemon Souls are naturally alone, and enjoy being alone in Nature.  Another word that can relate to Daemon is Shaman.


Daemon Souls:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,75.msg821.html#msg821

Galactic Centre:

http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,254.msg3730.html#msg3730

Evolutionary States and Natural Law:
http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,222.msg2814.html#msg2814


  
« Last Edit: Dec 11, 2010, 02:22 PM by Linda » Logged
Stacie
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 13, 2010, 12:21 PM »

I wanted to add some thoughts on the topic of daemon souls.  Sorry if this is all over the place.

The issue of feeling alienated from most other humans and the nature of the world itself is based on the fact that the inner reality/memory of these souls is literally defined by knowing and relating to themselves as equal to everything in nature.  JWG has often said that daemon souls typically find it easier to relate to animals and/or plants than other human beings.  JWG has also taught that animals specifically, are PURE emotion.   This is not an account of animal nature that we hear in patriarchal reality.  Patriarchal thought tends to want to characterize an animal's nature as carnal and purely instinctual.  The actual self-evident reality is that animals are indeed instinctual, but what is the nature of that instinct?  It is EMOTIONAL instinct.  Because prevailing patriarchal thought does not acknowledge the validity of animals as primarily emotional beings, it has served to justify the tendency of human beings to deny the direct, subjective, conscious experience that occurs within each and every animal's consciousness, relative to the life reality and circumstances they are experiencing and living.  Thus humans tend not to concern themselves with the same level of concern regarding an animal's subjective experience as they do for other humans.  Daemon souls have an intrinsic inner connection to the subjective realities of the animals they encounter, and this tends to include an awareness of the nuanced details that most human beings don't feel they have the time or sociological support to listen to, consider, let alone respond to.  This can be very problematic in today's world, because a daemon soul who is aware of these inner nuances and is recognizing what an animal is needing, who wants and is trying to provide it, will often meet with hostile, judgmental, or persecutory reactions from other humans who do NOT share this awareness but in an egocentric way, feel themselves to be level-headed experts on what constitutes an animal's wellbeing...and in that egocentric 'knowledge' can try to stop or undermine the daemon soul from doing or giving to the animal according to their inner perception.  This can be a traumatic experience for a daemon soul, and only reinforces the sense of alienation from the human population.  Beyond the sense of alienation, it can induce real feelings of futility in the context of this world, because the very thing they are inwardly defined by and motivated to do...one of their most essential reasons for living...is being restricted and/or outright prevented for no other reason than human ignorance, delusion, and orientation defined by self-importance/exclusion.  The prevailing human belief, even today, is that human beings are superior to Nature.  Daemon souls know that they are equal...EQUAL!..to Nature.  And the perception that most human beings tend to have when they observe a daemon soul who is *demonstrating* this inner knowing of equality, is to perceive that daemon soul as 'inferior' as the natural world they are interacting with as an equal.  All too often this becomes the basis of how the daemon soul will then be treated by the typical human observer.   The real problem within this is that most human beings are not even AWARE that their judgments are being based on an utterly false and distorted reality.  It is like a distorted human version of 'survial of the fittest'.  Weakness is often perceived in the daemon soul upon demonstrating its equal relationship to the whole of Nature and all sentient beings within it.....that perception of weakness triggers a kind of instinctual drive for social predation (i use the term social predation metaphorically...though its not always metaphor is it).  One blessing that's intrinsic to daemon consciousness however...a true resource..is the natural daemon capacity for adaption.  A daemon's inner knowledge of natural law can induce an awareness of how to specifically adapt to difficult or threatening circumstances, in order to neutralize, minimize, and/or redirect force, danger, etc. (and to be clear, this awareness also applies in a positive context).. The nature of this adaption can be so unassuming and so natural, that the optics of it from an external point of view, can appear to be nothing more than the hand of coiincidence, or life simply proceeding without a climax that may have seemed eminent prior to the adaption.   I do realize I'm speaking in extremely general terms right here, but just reflect on this point and consider all the ways this simple capacity for adaption can direct, redirect, or otherwise interact with a natural course of circumstance..  

Daemon consciousness is hypersensitive in its nature.  This reflects the inherent fusion of the human consciousness with the totality of nature.  That fusion produces an inner experience, an inner awareness, which manifests THROUGH and BECAUSE OF a daemon's hypersensitivity.  Emotional and psychic hypersensitivity are key instruments in perceiving a natural flow or 'current' of phenomenal reality as it is building or manifesting at preliminary level of emotional reality.  From emotional reality there is a natural progression to psychic/psychological level of reality...both of which precede concrete time/space manifestation that we experience as definitive "reality" in the world.   The point is that daemon hypersensitivity is a capacity...a capacity that does not always feel pleasant and takes effort sometimes to identify it for what it is, distinct from one's personal content.  This capacity is intended to aid one in tuning in to natural dynamics as they are building/organizing/unfolding at primary stages of reality, on through to full time/space manifestation.  This is the nature of reality within the consciousness of Gaia, and among many other things, allows phenomena to adapt to itself.  And thus, daemon consciousness reflects this.

Stacie  
« Last Edit: Dec 13, 2010, 01:17 PM by Stacie » Logged
mountainheather
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 13, 2010, 09:58 PM »

Hi Stacie,
Quote
I wanted to add some thoughts on the topic of daemon souls.  Sorry if this is all over the place.

The issue of feeling alienated from most other humans and the nature of the world itself is based on the fact that the inner reality/memory of these souls is literally defined by knowing and relating to themselves as equal to everything in nature.  JWG has often said that daemon souls typically find it easier to relate to animals and/or plants than other human beings.  JWG has also taught that animals specifically, are PURE emotion.   This is not an account of animal nature that we hear in patriarchal reality.  Patriarchal thought tends to want to characterize an animal's nature as carnal and purely instinctual.  The actual self-evident reality is that animals are indeed instinctual, but what is the nature of that instinct?  It is EMOTIONAL instinct.  Because prevailing patriarchal thought does not acknowledge the validity of animals as primarily emotional beings, it has served to justify the tendency of human beings to deny the direct, subjective, conscious experience that occurs within each and every animal's consciousness, relative to the life reality and circumstances they are experiencing and living.  Thus humans tend not to concern themselves with the same level of concern regarding an animal's subjective experience as they do for other humans.  Daemon souls have an intrinsic inner connection to the subjective realities of the animals they encounter, and this tends to include an awareness of the nuanced details that most human beings don't feel they have the time or sociological support to listen to, consider, let alone respond to.  This can be very problematic in today's world, because a daemon soul who is aware of these inner nuances and is recognizing what an animal is needing, who wants and is trying to provide it, will often meet with hostile, judgmental, or persecutory reactions from other humans who do NOT share this awareness but in an egocentric way, feel themselves to be level-headed experts on what constitutes an animal's wellbeing...and in that egocentric 'knowledge' can try to stop or undermine the daemon soul from doing or giving to the animal according to their inner perception.  This can be a traumatic experience for a daemon soul, and only reinforces the sense of alienation from the human population.  Beyond the sense of alienation, it can induce real feelings of futility in the context of this world, because the very thing they are inwardly defined by and motivated to do...one of their most essential reasons for living...is being restricted and/or outright prevented for no other reason than human ignorance, delusion, and orientation defined by self-importance/exclusion.  The prevailing human belief, even today, is that human beings are superior to Nature.  Daemon souls know that they are equal...EQUAL!..to Nature.  And the perception that most human beings tend to have when they observe a daemon soul who is *demonstrating* this inner knowing of equality, is to perceive that daemon soul as 'inferior' as the natural world they are interacting with as an equal.  All too often this becomes the basis of how the daemon soul will then be treated by the typical human observer.   The real problem within this is that most human beings are not even AWARE that their judgments are being based on an utterly false and distorted reality.  It is like a distorted human version of 'survial of the fittest'.  Weakness is often perceived in the daemon soul upon demonstrating its equal relationship to the whole of Nature and all sentient beings within it.....that perception of weakness triggers a kind of instinctual drive for social predation (i use the term social predation metaphorically...though its not always metaphor is it).  One blessing that's intrinsic to daemon consciousness however...a true resource..is the natural daemon capacity for adaption.  A daemon's inner knowledge of natural law can induce an awareness of how to specifically adapt to difficult or threatening circumstances, in order to neutralize, minimize, and/or redirect force, danger, etc. (and to be clear, this awareness also applies in a positive context).. The nature of this adaption can be so unassuming and so natural, that the optics of it from an external point of view, can appear to be nothing more than the hand of coiincidence, or life simply proceeding without a climax that may have seemed eminent prior to the adaption.   I do realize I'm speaking in extremely general terms right here, but just reflect on this point and consider all the ways this simple capacity for adaption can direct, redirect, or otherwise interact with a natural course of circumstance..  

Daemon consciousness is hypersensitive in its nature.  This reflects the inherent fusion of the human consciousness with the totality of nature.  That fusion produces an inner experience, an inner awareness, which manifests THROUGH and BECAUSE OF a daemon's hypersensitivity.  Emotional and psychic hypersensitivity are key instruments in perceiving a natural flow or 'current' of phenomenal reality as it is building or manifesting at preliminary level of emotional reality.  From emotional reality there is a natural progression to psychic/psychological level of reality...both of which precede concrete time/space manifestation that we experience as definitive "reality" in the world.   The point is that daemon hypersensitivity is a capacity...a capacity that does not always feel pleasant and takes effort sometimes to identify it for what it is, distinct from one's personal content.  This capacity is intended to aid one in tuning in to natural dynamics as they are building/organizing/unfolding at primary stages of reality, on through to full time/space manifestation.  This is the nature of reality within the consciousness of Gaia, and among many other things, allows phenomena to adapt to itself.  And thus, daemon consciousness reflects this.

Stacie  


Ok, just processing here, is the daemon soul, then a very specific form of the sag archetype? If so are there other soul types with concentrations of archtypal energies within this and the other archetypes?

Stacie are you saying that this type of soul is working at the most subtle levels of creation? How much of that would depend on their evolutionary state?

Thanks for so much to contemplate!
Heather
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mountainheather
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 13, 2010, 10:10 PM »

Hi,
My apologies if this has already been mentioned but I've been thinking about the words inner teacher ,sag in the spiritual stages, asking and answering ones own questions, but then how does this interface with Pisces and the inner godhead the inner healer?

Thank you for any thoughts!
Heather
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Lucius
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 14, 2010, 09:11 PM »

Stacie - thank you so much for your post on the Daemon archetype!  I had not thought of the mutable signs and the inherent adaptability of the Daemon in these patriarchal times - truly opened up a whole process for me.  I admit I'd been hoping you'd speak on the Daemon for quite awhile now.  Smiley  So, thanks.

I also 'second' mountainhealer's questions.  Cool
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