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Author Topic: Phases & aspects [began as Sesquiquadrate 135 Degree]  (Read 15545 times)
Dhyana
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« on: Nov 28, 2010, 08:06 PM »

What does this aspect correlate to in EA?

Sesquiquadrate 135 Degrees? When I look at certain charts, I see this between certain planets/houses,  and as I correlate the archetypes to the people's lives, I am starting to intuit that it may have something to do with an issue that seems unresolvable to the person themself, but maybe not to others?

Kind of like the inconjunct, but still something is subtly different --hmmm?

I also have noticed health issues related to this aspect, but not always?

Any comments?  Grin Huh

Thanks, Dhyana
« Last Edit: Nov 28, 2010, 08:29 PM by Dhyana » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 28, 2010, 09:51 PM »

Hi Dhyana, as I just told you privately, I happen to have been writing about this for my little book JUST NOW at the time that you posted this thread.

I feel a deep confirmation from God, "yes, do what your doing". Which is really important for me to hear.

So I'll share here I'm formulating:

I find it most helpful to look at the phase in which the aspect occurs. So the sesquiquadrate can occur twice:

Within orb of 135 degrees- First quarter phase or gibbous phase
and within orb of 225 degrees- Full phase or disseminating phase

All sesquiquadrates will occur either at the end of a phase or the very beginning of a phase.
The 135 degree sesquiqudrate can occur at the very end of the first quarter phase or the very beginning of the disseminating phase.

The archetypal nature of the sesquiquadrate, as I understand it, is micromanaging the purpose in such a way that it can find an expression that is appropriate for the current reality. This is fundamentally different than the inconjunct. The inconjunct correlates to the need to become aware of a special purpose that the soul is meant to fulfill, and the crisis in aligning with the appropriate actions neccesary in order to fulfill that purpose. Thus it has a lot to do with "getting out of one's own way", "letting go and letting god" and "taking it one step at a time". Until the inconjunct is integrated, it can manifest as a angst that there's something to do but "I just don't know how or what to do". The sesquiquadrate, and the semi square too, archetypally says that there are construcitve, wise choices and actions to take in order to further integrate what has been developed up until this point. If this integration does not occur, then sloppiness and lack of social participation will be the result.

Another way to say that: the sesquiquadrate implies curbing what has become excessive in order to make progress. Whereas the inconjunct has more to do with showing up in the first place (gibbous inconjunct) or paying attention to one's environment and showing up in the ways that are needed (full phase inconjunct) and taking it one step at a time.

The sesquiquadrate is in the square family (90/2= 45. All sesquiquadrates are divisions of 45- like the semi square). I like to think of the semisquare and the sesquiquadrate as more refined and detailed manifestations of a square. That's why I use the word "micromanaging".

One expression of a sesquiquadrate that I have definitely come to understand is the experience of feeling "blocked". The reason for the block is to enforce more awareness of what adjustments need to be made in order to move forward.

Another point of contrast- the inconjunct can easily manifest as a resistance to doing this work God has intended for a soul to do on the basis of not feeling ready or being too full of oneself to recognize what's actually needed from society. The of resistance in a sesquiquadrate however is about resisting slowing down and taking the necessary steps/learning what adjustments are neccesary etc in order for evolution to proceed.

A teacher of mine once offered the analogy- if you are doing yoga and are overly flexible- you may hurt yourself if you do not know proper alignment. Thus it is neccesary to "fabricate your own resistance" as to not "over do it" this enables you to naturally build up the appropriate muscular structure to support the flexibility.

I also understand that "excuse making" and over compensation are common expressions of this aspect. This is because it requires will and effort,and most of all, understanding in order to make new adjustments to one's life. Thus until this maturity has been developed, there is often a tendency to make excuses.
« Last Edit: Nov 30, 2010, 01:31 AM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 28, 2010, 10:12 PM »

Hi Dhyana,

Now here are the specific meanings of the 4 possible manifestations of this aspect.

The first quarter phase sesquiquadrate: being a transitional state to a new phase, has the balsamic quality of "completing" (this is true for all aspects that occur at the end of a phase). What's neccesary is for the soul to learn how to slow down, to curb whatever behaviors are overly excessive/do not allow further participation in society. When we're moving from the new phase to the gibbous phase the archetypal theme is humility via inner withdrawn and reflection on what needs fixing.

Moving from the first quarter to the gibbous phase, there simply isn't very much awareness yet as to how to become progressively socialized in the world in a sustainable and workable way (ie try maintaining a daily yoga practice w/out developing proper alignment- you wont last very long!) Thus in the gibbous phase, there is the the need to continue to take steps to adopt and adjust in the ways that are necessary.

This is potent for me as I have a natal second house Pluto sesquiquadrate to my 9th house Gemini north node- gibbous phase, with an orb of just 6 minutes. I understand a BIG evolutionary lesson for me is to stop making excuses as a way of resisting the evolutionary impulse. Relative to the second house Pluto, Its not particularly easy for me to budge. Thus, based on evolutionary necessity, as I currently understand my own dynamics, my life is set up in such a way that I am being PUSHED to slow down. I still have a lot to understand about this, as I feel my resistance is still IMMENSE and predominately unconscious (as Pluto, a soul tends to be). And the gibbous phase humiliation couldn't feel more true. This is something Rad and other moderators have been helping me with tremendously- and they don't even know it  Wink.

The sesquiquadrate that occurs within the full phase is again, completing a phase. This phase has represented the initial exposure to society and participation as an equal. Thus this aspect occuring in this phase requires the soul to slow down and reformulate its awareness of how society works- its rules laws customs etc. And to make neccesary adjustments accordingly. The need is to understand what strucutres need to be developed/embraced.The example JWG gave is Mercury Pluto in a full phase sesquiquadrate. If the soul realizes that becoming a psychologist would be an appropriate way to integrate its own unique purpose, then the soul necessarily needs to understand what is required by society in order to do that (school, credentials, pre-requisities etc). Again micro managing.

The sesquiquadrate in the disseminating phase reflects the beginning of a complete immersion within society- the intent at this point is to continue to make whatever adjustments are necessary in order to fully participate in society in a way that meets the needs/realities of its society. Progressively through the disseminating phase, a soul osmoses into it's own consciousness a deeply penetrating awareness of its social reality, and how to participate within it in a way to fulfill its purpose. And so in the beginning of this phase, with the sesquiquadrate, there needs to an immense degree of awareness channeled into understanding one's society and making the necessary adustments based on that awareness.

God Bless,
Ari Moshe

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ari moshe
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 28, 2010, 10:14 PM »

Hi Dhyana,
I also wanted to add, in case you didn't know, that JWG discusses the 8 primary phases and the aspects that occur within all those phases in Pluto 2.
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Dhyana
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 28, 2010, 11:31 PM »

Ari,

I am touched deeply that my timely question revealed confirmation for you!
I love when that kind of thing happens. It is very inspiring, indeed!

 --And always comes in such surprising ways. Cheesy

I recognize what you are describing about the general themes of the sesquiquadrate and the inconjunct within my own chart and the others. It makes a lot of sense!

However, I do not know yet, how to formulate which phase these aspect are in by looking at a chart. In fact, the only reason I could find the GENERAL sesquiquardrates and the inconjunctions in the charts I am referring to,is because I happen to find a website that offers these mini reports for free, and in those reports there is a full page print out of the aspects -- on like a symbolic grid type chart (kind of like the one on astrodienst, but much more colorful, clear and bold, And has a few more aspect included that astro.com's) Unfortunately, they only do Placidus charts on that website. NO option for Porphyry. Honestly, I have to save up my money to buy Solar Fire someday -lol Tongue

If it were not for that graph chart, I would not know about the aspects at all as I am not yet studied in the technical application of ressurrecting a natal chart and uncovering aspects.

Is there a book you could recommend to me that helps me develop the technical part involved in finding these things?  How did you learn to do that?
I see this is going to be very important for me in the very near future to be able to do! Wink (to find out how to look at a chart and identify these aspects and phases)  
Maybe we can talk privately about this too?

I personally  have many of these sesquiquadrates and inconjuncts in my chart (as you must know) -yet I have no idea what phase they are all in? And I am sure it would be very enlightening indeed, to know! I can tell that some of what you shared with me in the past about my chart contained the message of the phases, (as I think back to all you shared with me) but it would help me in my studies to know what excactly they were. Again, maybe we could speak about this privately?

I will save what you have shared here and study it. It is a lot of information. But very USEFUL information!!!

 Sometimes I get overwhelmed with all that I have to learn with this system. I feel like my brain goes into overload -LOL.  But hey, "one step at a time", right!? Wink  SOmething continues to pull me in this direction and to ask these kinds of questions --so we will see.  Grin

I can't thank you enough for the time you spend doing things like you just did here --sharing with me your knowledge. I feel I am so very blessed to have met you, Ari. I have so much appreciation in my heart for you.

With lots of love,
D.

PS. Now that you mention it, I do remember that information is in the PLuto 2 book. I forgot.  Thanks Again, Ari!









 


« Last Edit: Nov 29, 2010, 12:00 AM by Dhyana » Logged
Upasika
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 29, 2010, 04:59 AM »

Hi Dhyana,

I started writing this but then noticed Ari has posted a substantial reply. But I thought I’d post it anyway, in case it also helps at all.

As Ari pointed out, any aspect must be related to its part in the bigger picture of the whole Phasal cycle - which is based on the planets orbiting the Sun.

… the planets all orbit the Sun from different distances and at different speeds meaning each planet takes a different amount of time to orbit the Sun. As we know those planets closer to the Sun move faster while those further out move slower and take longer. This is reflected in their differing speeds of movement through the Zodiac - in the chart one of the planets moving faster around the chart than the other.

When looking at any two planets the outer planet will, on average, be moving more slowly around the Zodiac than the other (more) inner planet, which is closer to the Sun. Therefore, in it's journey round the Sun, the faster planet will always be overtaking the more slower moving (outer) planet. This means the alignment of the planets with each other is constantly changing – the two planets are in a cyclic relationship with each other which repeats over time - time and time again. This ongoing relationship between the two planets is shown by their Phasal Cycles.

Whenever the faster inner planet catches up to the slower (more) outer planet - and they are at the same point in the chart - a New Phasal cycle begins.

As the faster moving planet then pulls away from the slower one the separation between them increases until they are exactly opposite each other in the chart (waxing part of cycle). Then the separation starts decreasing until the faster inner planet has caught up to the slower planet again and the cycle ends (waning part of cycle). This whole cycle is the Phasal cycle.

Both the Waxing and Waning halves are each broken down into 4 equally sized phases, making 8 phases in the whole cycle. Each phase is a 45 degree segment of the zodiac (chart), all adding up to 360. The end of each phase is a critical junction point, or gate, into the following phase. Between any two planets the conjunction and opposition mark the beginning and midway parts of the cycle, and all the other aspects will occur once in the waxing half, and once again in the waning half.

Planets represent different energies we have to fulfil various different functions in our lives. We direct our energy into different functions required by the situations and circumstances we are involved in. Just how we integrate inside us the energies used to fulfil these differing functions is shown firstly, in a general way, by the phase between the planets, and within that, more specifically by any aspect occurring between them – in the way that aspect manifests in that particular phase.

When two planets start a new cycle their different energies completely combine into a single new energy – this seeds something new - an intention or purpose, related to the combination of those two energies. As the energies have totally combined its not possible at first to really know what is happening, and the only approach to life that can be taken as far as those two functions (now a combined energy) is concerned, is an instinctual one. It’s a subconscious sense of the new.

The whole waxing half of the cycle is about gaining more consciousness of this sense of new intention and purpose, the nature of which will be shown by the two different functions involved. Finding personal meaning for the new intention is necessary, so as to focus that energy in a direction as a purpose that will actualise and thus fulfil the intention. This involves gestating the energy, growing meaning for it inside first - lots of experimentation with things until the meaning becomes clear. Then developing the purpose as a personally identifiable thing to give it shape and form, at least for oneself. This can be very satisfying. However as the planets move through the waxing phase the personal identification with the new purpose has to be relinquished to allow further growth and interaction with others, regarding it, to happen. Once this has been achieved the new purpose can be established in a social context which is necessary to validate it, and also infuse the process with the further energy required to bring the intention to full expansion.

The waning half is about fully actualising the new intention in a social context, which requires a full merging of one’s purpose within the existing structure, rules, regulations, understanding and taboos etc of the society in which this process is happening. This requires ever more expansion of consciousness as any remaining personal identification and attachment to the process/activity creates blocks and obstacles to its fulfilment, and eventual fruition within a collective context. But once this has happened, the purpose has been fulfilled externally (to oneself), and an even greater satisfaction is experienced.

However, since the purpose has now been fulfilled a loss of meaning starts to take over. Thus the process starts moving back inside where a deeper meaning for the original intention can be searched for – what was that all about, where do I go from here, and what does that really mean for me now?  Also, the integration with society - that was required to fully establish the purpose externally and thus bringing satisfaction on that count … now also loses meaning – the integration was only for that specific purpose. For this reason, and also to get a better perspective, the person has to separate from the prevailing consensus views concerning their purpose, and see their intention from a more individualised point again, so they can then relate it to a larger sense of reality, whatever that may be to the person. Through this final part of the cycle the person can now discover a more ultimate sense of meaning for the whole process, now that it has come to a culmination, completion.

Of course it can take many lifetimes for two planets to complete a full phasal cycle. The particular phasal aspect that any two planets are in, in the chart, shows where the Soul has got to in it's development of those energies/functions, firstly in the larger unfolding of their whole phasal cycle, but also the orb will show how relatively new or old any particular aspect is for the Soul (although I never came across anywhere where Jeffrey gave any details about that in terms of actual measureable time).  

An aspect does actually have a basic generic meaning, but it operates very differently depending on whether it’s in the waxing or waning half of the cycle. So that’s the first thing to determine, and it will show you which phase it’s in. Ari has written about the sesquiquadrate in all it's different phases (and of course reading up on it in Pluto II).

Most websites will have an aspect grid to show you the aspects. To see what phase an aspect is in one way is as follows … [This works but a different, and more simpler way is described below by Ari & Steve which would be good to check out first. This method described by them is the preferred EA method because it is a very simple method]

blessings Upasika


Quote
1. Start with the slower moving planet.

(Remember that, being at the centre of the solar system, the Sun doesn’t orbit around anything (within the solar system) so it has no movement, no speed at all – it is the “slowest” planet of them all in that sense).

             eg Neptune at 0 Scorpio.

2. Moving anticlockwise around the chart (the direction all planets move in), counting the number of degrees to the other, faster moving, planet.
(The exception is with the nodes when they are the faster moving point. As they move around the chart clockwise, you move clockwise round the chart when counting the degrees they are from the slower moving planet).

             eg Venus at 14 Gemini



=> There are 224 degrees from 0 Scorpio to 14 Gemini.     Then look in the list below to see it’s phasal aspect.

Our example: 224 is in very close orb to a Full Sesquiquadrate (224.99)



Degree   Phase Aspect
0           New Conjunction
30         New SemiSextile
36         New Decile
40         New Novile
44.99     New SemiSquare
45         Crescent SemiSquare
51.43     Crescent Septile
60         Crescent Sextile
72         Crescent Quintile
80         Crescent BiNovile
89.99     Crescent Square
90          First Quarter Square
102.86     First Quarter BiSeptile
108         First Quarter SesquiQuintile
120         First Quarter Trine
134.99     First Quarter Sesquiquadrate
135         Gibbous Sesquiquadrate
144         Gibbous BiQuintile
150         Gibbous Quincunx
154.29     Gibbous TriSeptile
179.99     Gibbous Opposition
180         Full Opposition
205.71     Full TriSeptile
210         Full Qunincunx
216         Full BiQuintile
224.99     Full SesquiQuadrate
225         Disseminating Sesquiquadrate
240         Disseminating Trine
252         Disseminating SesquiQuintile
257.14     Disseminating BiSeptile
269.99     Disseminating Square
270         Third Quarter Square
280         Third Quarter BiNovile
288         Third Quarter Quintile
300         Third Quarter Sextile
308.57     Third Quarter Septile
314.99     Third Quarter SemiSquare
315         Balsamic SemiSquare
320         Balsamic Novile
324         Balsamic Decile
330         Balsamic SemiSextile
359.99     Balsamic Conjunction

Relative speed of the planets / points...
ASCENDANT
MIDHEAVEN
Moon
Mercury
Venus
Mars
Vesta
Juno
Ceres
Pallas
Lucifer
Jupiter
Moon's South & North Nodes
Saturn
Chiron
Uranus
Neptune
Pluto
Sun
« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2010, 02:26 PM by Upasika » Logged
Steve
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 29, 2010, 06:09 AM »

Hi Dhyana

Diagrams of the phases and aspects are posted for download here.

To add to what's already been said, here are some of Jeffrey's words on the Gibbous phase sesquiquad:

Quote
This is a transitional phase of itself. It is the transition between the subjective orientation and objective orientation - from individual development to social development, integrating the individual development into the social scheme of things. The gibbous phase is the transitional archetype between the two. The key word for the gibbous phase is adjustment or self-analysis. What happens here is that now that we have moved through the first quarter trine, the individual is full of himself, very Leonian, and it wants to display and project itself to all. It is the same archetype of the actor who has received an Academy Award and wants all to know. And rightfully so in its own way. After all, it has been a hard-won journey all the way from that new phase conjunction: We get a few bennies in our life now and then, even in the midst of hardship. But, let's face it, most people in these kinds of societies feel threatened by another's accomplishments, by another's sense of well-beingness, by another being full of themselves and having a clear vision of what they are trying to accomplish. This kind of society, because of its religious ethics put such things down. There is nobody around here with pats on the back and congratulations for a journey hard-won. It's more the voice of , "Who in the hell do you think you are?"

We meet this environmental feedback at the first quarter sesquisquare. The first quarter reaction is to throw the question back, and to fight back. This is where it is important to understand sociological context. At some point, whether we like it or not we have to acknowledge that we belong to that context. Envy and jealousy abound. Another culture might say, "More power to you."

The first quarter sesquisquare is preparing the individual to integrate on society's terms, not on the individual's terms and therein lies the rub because at this juncture the person is full of themselves and does not want to bend to any one’s will.

And so there is tremendous tension, sesquisquare, conflict. How do I accomplish the goals relative to vision now that I am receiving this environmental feedback that feels like rejection? That is why we have these key words in the gibbous phase of analysis and adjustment, because when you meet that environmental feedback in this sociological context, it will necessarily promote an existential and experiential crisis which will lead to analysis. Why has this happened? It is the search for knowledge. It is that search that progressively promotes the awareness of how that sociological context is put together. The problem in this kind of aspect is that once that awareness becomes known, the individual begins to feel very small and begins to feel overwhelmed by the sociological context. Then they begin to analyze all their own deficiencies, inferiorities, lacks and shortcomings and all the things they would necessarily have to accomplish, develop or adjust to make that vision reality. And all too often there is a shrinking from the task relative to now another yin phase, the person is thrown in on them self and they are literally experiencing the desert of their own personality and Soul. Somehow where there was richness and fertility, there is now a barren inheritance and thus the person feels lonely as if they are living in an existential void. This promotes crisis.

From a purely archetypical point of view, it is meant to induce humility meaning the person is full of them self and thus perhaps overly identified with their ego in the sense of being the center of the universe, too narcissistic. So this induces necessary ego-centric humility and thus the soul programs via this aspect the negative feedback as well as negative inner feedback as one analyzes oneself.
...
The orb that I use is 3 degrees, 1-2 degrees on either side for the sesquiquad.
...
So the humility lesson and the need to acknowledge how the system works leads, in most cases, to seeking out the necessary training and activities and schools of higher learning that will give you the necessary certification to actualize the vision. This is another way of acknowledging humility.

The polarity phase here is balsamic. The gibbous phase is now promoting the awareness of the nitty gritty details of one's mundane daily life on a moment to moment basis. I am sensing the balsamic polarity and I want to escape. I am tired of these routines. I am bored. The balsamic is the vision of the absolute, the timeless, divinity, the ultimate, the ideal. So now that I am living my life in this very mundane way, submitting myself to this sociological context, this polarity point progressively tempts me to escape, to compare my reality with an ideal reality that I cannot find, but only can sense. What if I have Mars/Venus in a gibbous phase? Are not my relationships going to seem less than adequate? As measured against the undefined ideal. I will get bored with the normal tedious work I have to do in relationships to sustain it. This could make me irritable and critical and help me to take all the stupid little details and irritants and cause me blow them all out of proportion.

This could make me feel, Venus, that this is less than something I want, Mars. The school of life is now experienced through this relationship. Doubts, partner criticizes, I project. There could even be a refusal to accept any kind of relationship because of the sense of the ideal, timeless relationship.

This gibbous phase is to realize that the path to perfection is not through analyzing and criticizing, but through doing. Imperfection is a natural law of the earth. It is not here. Ultimately that gibbous phase Mars/Venus is teaching the person to seek a divine cosmic relationship within.

With respect to what has come before, the person has all kinds of subconscious memories of freedom and independence and now they are being required to be in a relationship which demands work, so resentment and anger exist.

and this on the disseminating phase sesquiquad

Quote
The disseminating phase correlates to the totality of the sociological cultural system in which you find yourself. In our time, everything that America is correlates to the disseminating phase. All possible lifestyles, beliefs, values and all that which if impossible - disseminating phase. It is the highest degree of socialization, the absolute need to disseminate your purpose which was initiated all the way back at the new phase conjunction. Not just amongst friends and close relationship, but in a full blown integration within the world - job or career.

When you pass the inconjunct, you become aware of what you are and what you can do and you go out and do it. The problem is that the sesquisquare is the last initiation, the last social ritual, social rite toward that goal. You have realized the you are meant to be a stockbroker and you have a powerful vision of wanting to be a stockbroker. In this aspect, you have a powerful vision of how to do it in a unique way, in a way that will actually change the social system that you are about to participate in, now being the world of a stockbroker. At the full phase sesquisquare, until you learn the ways and the means of the stock brokering world, all their little happy rituals, all the things that they do, the consensus of the stockbroker world. Until you learn that, you will be rejected in the sesquisquare full phase. You will be perceived as willful and as threatening to the established status quo. The security is now found through consensus and disseminating phase. The challenge is to acknowledge how that system is working, how the consensus is working, not in the way of becoming it, but in a way of making it work for you. That is the enlightened approach. The problem in most cases is the becoming - that is the easier path. It creates and leads to less social and individual stress, does it not? That's the voice that says, "If you can't beat them, join them." The challenge is to join them without them knowing that you haven't really joined. After all, if things are left in the consensus state forever, it is just going to crystallize and die off. We have to have new blood. That is what this aspect is for, new input, new visions. The key word for disseminating phase is just that - to disseminate, to share, to give.

To me the buzzword for sesquiquad is "adjustment".  It is a Virgo-like aspect that involves crisis, analysis, and often paralysis resulting from over analysis, used to justify not acting.  It is a gateway aspect because it represents the boundary between two phases, thus an inherent tendency to resist.  We are crossing from a masculine phase to a feminine phase.  It is a powerful aspect, because of that.  The Gibbous sesquiquad represents the 15 degree of Leo point, the Disseminating the 15 degree of Scorpio - both of these are biquadrant points, mid-points of fixed signs.  As such they are quite powerful.
Steve
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ari moshe
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 29, 2010, 03:44 PM »

Hopefully all this info is helpful and not resulting in an overload!

As I understand it, the square family (squares and semi/sesqisquares) are crucial in phasal development for the reasons Steve mentioned, they are transitions from one phase to another. So they are always going to imply some sort of resistance and insecurity based on fear of the unknown (new phase). Nature herself is set up in this way. We have the 4 natural seasons (solstice and equinox points all 90 degrees from one another) and the 4 midpoints in-between them. Earth based spiritualities have always recognized the sacredness of these 8 points in the course of a solar year.

Hi Upasika,
Quote
(The exception is with the nodes when they are the faster moving point. As they move around the chart clockwise, you move clockwise round the chart when counting the degrees they are from the slower moving planet).

If I'm not mistaken, I think that is incorrect. With the nodes, no matter how quick or slow they move in relation to the planet in question, it is always appropriate to move clockwise from the planet in question. For example if the nn is 0 Libra/ sn at 0 Aries and the Moon is at 0 Cancer, what was the node that the Moon last formed a conjunction with? The answer is the Aries sn.

Lets replace that Moon at 0 Cancer with Pluto. What is the last node that Pluto formed a conjunction with? The answer is still the sn at 0 Aries.

The reason why this works whether the planet in question is slower or faster than the nodes, is because the nodes are always moving backwards. Thus the node to the left has most recently been CLOSER to the planet in question- in all cases.
Ari Moshe
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Dhyana
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 29, 2010, 08:27 PM »

All,

I have not had any time today to read all the additional comments here--
Yet, I wanted to quickly thank you all so very much for the support!

I have just printed all of this out on paper and will be studying it over the next few.
Keeping it all in a folder I have for EA.

Thank you all so very much for taking the time to help me. Grin

Love,
Dhyana
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ari moshe
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 29, 2010, 10:57 PM »

Hi Upasika and Gonzalo,

I read through what you both wrote carefully, and I still understand the following principal to be true:

In the case of a planet squaring the nodes, it does not matter whether the planet is slower or faster than the nodes. In all cases, by moving in a clockwise direction from where the planet is positioned, the node that is first reached is both the node that the planet must be integrated through, as well as the node it is forming a first quarter square too.

To prove this, if we look at an ephemeris for lets say the example with Pluto at 0 Cancer and the sn at 0 Aries, we will find that the last node that Pluto formed a conjunction with is the sn. We would find the same thing with the Moon. Thus they are both first quarter square to the sn, and they are both integrated through the sn.

Also, it is my understanding that the node through which a planet is integrated is always the first quarter square node (as that is where the cycle began). Is that accurate?

In Gonzalo's example:
Quote
SN at 10° Libra; Mercury at 5° Libra: their difference is 355°, calculated in counter-clockwise direction starting from the SN position, because  Mercury is faster than the Node; thus, they are Balsamic conjunct;

The same conclusion can be found if we start with Mercury and move clockwise through the chart. It would take 355 degrees to reach the sn. The conjunction would be determined as balsamic.

Now lets say Mercury is replaced by Neptune at 5 Libra. The same principal applies- we can start at Neptune and move clockwise through the chart. This too is an example of a balsamic conjunction.

To prove that, simple track the past and project the future. Clearly in the past the sn was higher than 10 degrees and Neptune was lower than 5 degrees. And in the future they will soon be combust. This is true for every planet no matter whether it is slower or faster than the nodes. The phase seems to be the same.

I'm open of course to still missing something, I appreciate this so much.
Ari Moshe
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Steve
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 30, 2010, 12:57 AM »

Hi All

Just to clarify something.  Figuring phases to the nodes has always been one of the most confusing parts of EA to students.  "Back when", students questioned Jeffrey on the board a number of times to clarify how this is done.  I think he taught several methods over the years until he finally simplified it so it is easy to grasp.

It has nothing to do with how fast or slow a planet is relative to the nodal movement.  Its the same method for all planets regardless of speed.

Going clockwise, you move from the planet to the node you want to determine the planet-to-node phase. Count the # of degrees.  That's it.  Doesn't matter if its Sun or Moon or Pluto or Mercury, same method.  I've put up a diagram Kim Marie created to illustrate this method.

Upasika and Gonzalo, you can leave your posts up if you want to, but it would be good if you mark in red or something the sections that stand corrected, so as not to confuse people who read this stuff later on.  Its confusing enough without finding conflicting methods on the message board.
thank you!
Steve
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Steve
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 30, 2010, 01:28 AM »

Gonzalo

The material I quoted on Sesquiquadrate is from one of Jeffrey's workshop printed transcripts that is sold on the School website, Aspects, Phases, and Key Planetary Pairs. It's 41 typewritten pages long and in my opinion is by far the most comprehensive written description of the subject of phases and aspects.  I find it one of the most useful lectures because it describes the relationship between the aspects and the phases and the overall 360 degree wheel in a lot of detail. 

Also the sections on the key planetary pairs and the different formations like T-square, Yod, Grand Trine and Mystic rectangle.  Not sure this was covered in this much detail elsewhere. 

There is also a workshop DVD, Cycles of Becoming that has about one hour on the coming of the Aquarian Age and 3 and a half hours on the cycle of phases and aspects. 

These have a lot more detail than is covered in the Pluto one and two books.  I found/find it especially valuable stuff for those who deeply want to learn the principles of EA. 
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Dhyana
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 30, 2010, 02:57 AM »


Thanks so much to everyone!  I think I am kind of getting a glimmer of an idea about how to go about figuring these aspects out --but it is going to be a  s-l-o-w process with lots of practice for my brain --lol.

Thanks Upasika, Ari, Gonzalo, Steve -- well, everyone!  

Everyone has offerred such great stuff --and wonderful support here. What a great community!  Cheesy

« Last Edit: Nov 30, 2010, 11:10 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Upasika
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 30, 2010, 03:29 AM »

Upasika and Gonzalo, you can leave your posts up if you want to, but it would be good if you mark in red or something the sections that stand corrected, so as not to confuse people who read this stuff later on.  Its confusing enough without finding conflicting methods on the message board.
thank you!

Hi Steve, Ari, Gonzalo, Dhyana,

Good we have got to this point. It is as I had suspected, Ari and Gonzalo & I are describing two different ways to determine the phasal aspect of a Moon node and another planet, and both get the same result.

However, if the preference is to promote just one specific way of doing this, the "always moving clockwise from any planet to the Node in question" one, then that's fine by me .. it would simplify things for the MB in general and I'll mark the relevant parts of my previous posts.

blessings Upasika
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Dhyana
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 30, 2010, 04:54 AM »

Upasika --my confused-ness is nothing new- Shocked Huh   and was not due to any thing you wrote --in fact you cleared up a whole lot..

it is the WHOLE phasal thing  that is confusing me!  ---LOL Grin
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