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Author Topic: Neptune Square the Nodes  (Read 5217 times)
Yasmine
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« on: Dec 08, 2010, 11:32 AM »

Hello Everyone,
This is my first post here, but I don’t feel entirely new to this board as I’ve spent the last few weeks reading through all the fabulous material that's archived in the message board, (which has been an education in itself).
I’ve been a little  nervous to make any posts until I felt I had a grasp of the basic concepts. I’ve read the first Pluto book and Deva’s Karmic Mission book and have just ordered Pluto volume II, which I’m really excited about!!! In the mean time I’ve been devouring everything I can find on EA.

I’m currently trying build on my understanding of the different planets squaring the nodes. There is quite a bit of information here that I am happy to have found as several of the planets are used in examples.

Specifically I am looking for information on what the "skipped step" is when Neptune squares the nodal axis. Have not seen any posts regarding this planet specifically.  With my south node in Pisces, north node in Virgo and Neptune squaring  the nodal axis, I am trying to understand this “skipped step” by synthesizing my Neptune in Sagittarius with the exmples I've read here. Since Neptune last made a conjunction to the Pisces south node, I do realize this would be where the nodal dilemma gets resolved, however I’m having a difficult understanding what the "skipped step" would be.
Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Yasmine

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Gonzalo
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 08, 2010, 01:39 PM »

Hi Yasime

Most welcome to this message board.

Well, I have Neptune squaring the Moon’s nodes (from Virgo to Pisces), so perhaps my thoughts may be of help. I am sure others will add their views.

The South Node in Pisces correlates to the pre-existing focus of egocentric consciousness created by the Soul, that for many lifetimes has desired to embrace the totality of life, or the Source: to know the Unkown. The planetary ruler, Neptune, being in Sagittarius, indicates that the Soul, in order to know the totality of life, or the Source (Pisces), has desired to align itself with philosophical, cosmological, metaphysical or spiritual systems (Sagittarius), and to live a life, or lives, which reflect the truths (Sagittarius) contained in those philosophical, metaphysical or spiritual systems. Through these types of belief systems (Sagittarius) the Soul has desired not only to have beliefs, but to directly experience the Creator of All Things (Pisces, Neptune). Because Neptune is in Sagittarius, these symbols also imply prior lifetimes in which such expansion of consciousness that the Soul has desired have occurred in relation to nature, natural lives, and it also implies that the Soul has desired to align itself with natural law.  Because Pisces correlates to ultimate ideals, and with the desire to merge with the totality of life in all its manifestations, and given that Neptune is square to the nodal axis, the Soul has created experiences of fundamental disillusionment. These experiences have occurred through false teachings (Neptune in Sagittarius squaring the nodes), manmade beliefs implying distortions of natural law, and through teachers who have lacked honesty (Neptune in Sagittarius, squaring the nodes from Pisces to Virgo). These experiences have produced massive crises involving not knowing what to believe, and how to live. This has ignited the desire and need to discriminate (Virgo) in order to establish what is true, as contrasted to what is false. Also, because of the nature of these crises, and given the pre-existing desires to merge with the totality of life, the Soul has felt contaminated by the falsity of these teachings, and has desired to purify itself from all which the Soul perceives as false, or impure (Neptune squaring the North Node in Virgo). This has created a deep and constant self-analytical inner focus, a compulsive inner criticism (Virgo).  This in turn has created other lifetimes for the Soul in which it has desired to align with manmade beliefs which sustain that human nature is essentially imperfect, and “fallen”, and that it needs to suffer in order advance spiritually (Virgo). In these lifetimes the Soul has desired to close itself to its spiritual awareness and its natural devotion, product of prior life efforts, because of the fears of spiritual contamination or dishonesty. These fears have been quite irrational (Neptune squaring the Nodes from Pisces to Virgo), because the Soul has not truly understood what the basis for these fears are, because it does not know how to interpret its feelings and desires, and what to believe (Neptune in Sagittarius):  that they are rooted in experiences of fundamental disillusionment creating the feeling and fears of contamination. Because in this configuration Pluto was in Libra, the Soul has also created desires to go on its own (Pluto polarity point in Aries), ie. not to depend on external teachers. 

Given that the motion of the nodes is retrograde, and the average motion of Neptune is direct, the last conjunction of Neptune with the Moon’s nodes occurred at the North Node in Virgo. Thus Neptune applies to Virgo, and Virgo is the resolution node for the skipped steps. This correlates to the ongoing need to discriminate, and to create a systematic approach to the inner experience and a conscious inner focus allowing an analysis, on a daily basis, of the contents emanating from the Soul, in order to linearly understand the inner experience of the Soul. It also correlates to the need of grounding and healing. Because Neptune is in Sagittarius, these symbols speak of the need to heal through direct contact with Nature, and, by means of linearly understanding the nature of its irrational fears, progressively re-align with what is natural, as experienced from within (not external teachings, not teachers, but direct inner experience-both Pisces and Virgo are yin archetypes, ie. consciousness moving back to the center). Because the resolution node of the Neptune skipped steps is the North Node, this has to be accomplished by means of the polarity point of Pluto, ie. Aries. This implies independent self-discovery, versus depending on external sources, this independent self-discovery being the natural way to validate from within that which is true and real in the Soul’s inner experiences, and that which is not true, thus creating a progressive re-alignment with natural law (Sagittarius), and with the totality of life. The polarity point of Neptune being in Gemini indicates, though, the need to communicate with some others in order to linearly process the nature of the inner experience. The resolution node being in Virgo, also implies the need to work for those who are more needed than the Soul (Karma yoga).

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Yasmine
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 08, 2010, 03:35 PM »

Gonzalo,
Much thanks for your perspective!
I will re-read this and continue to absorb it all.
You wrote:
"These experiences have occurred through false teachings (Neptune in Sagittarius squaring the nodes), manmade beliefs implying distortions of natural law, and through teachers who have lacked honesty (Neptune in Sagittarius, squaring the nodes from Pisces to Virgo). These experiences have produced massive crises involving not knowing what to believe, and how to live. This has ignited the desire and need to discriminate (Virgo) in order to establish what is true, as contrasted to what is false.”

 
. Neptune is retrograde in my chart, (not sure if that makes a difference as to the node of resolution), however could it mean that I am re-living much of what you wrote about? Interesting that I was raised in a fanatically religious family, which resulted in a lot of confusion as to what to believe and how to live! 

Also thank you for your clarification on the Virgo North Node as being the node of resolution in my case. The Virgo node is where I am instinctively driven. Also the independent self discovery you mentioned is probably why I feel so drawn to learning Evolutionary Astrology.

(I reread Upasika’s statement and understand why I made my error with the node of resolution. I’ll post her thought again below for any other people who are new here.)

“To determine which node a planet is applying to, imagine the chart as a big circle on the floor, stand on the skipped step planet and face into the center of the circle (chart). Then turn your head to the left and the node you see 90 degrees away to the left, is the node that particular planet is applying to.”

Peace and blessings.
Yasmine
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 08, 2010, 04:14 PM »

Hi Yasmine

Quote
Neptune is retrograde in my chart, (not sure if that makes a difference as to the node of resolution),

It makes no difference according to EA.

Code:
however could it mean that I am re-living much of what you wrote about?

The retrograde symbol can imply the need to re-live. Further, the skipped steps themselves imply the need to repeat, in order to resolve.

God Bless,

Gonzalo






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ari moshe
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 08, 2010, 09:53 PM »

Hi Yasmine,

I love that when it rains it pours! I just saw two clients who both had the very exact signature you are describing Yasmine. Both your age. So one thing I wanted to add, was that these souls, both in the spiritual state, have lived strong lifetimes in the context of Judeo Christian monastic/religious conditioning.

As I understand, the Virgo Pisces axis correlates to just that. Relative to Neptune in Sag, this is a perfect example of teachings that distort natural law and as a result produce a consciousness of guilt and confusion about what it means to be in flesh.

Gonzalo, I really enjoyed reading your analysis.

God bless,
Ari Moshe
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serban_p
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 09, 2010, 03:21 AM »

Gonzalo,

Just a quick question with respect to what you wrote.

Because the resolution node of the Neptune skipped steps is the North Node, this has to be accomplished by means of the polarity point of Pluto, ie. Aries.

Does this in any way imply that if the South Node had been the resolution node, Pluto's polarity point would not apply or am I misinterpreting what you wrote? More specifically, is it not true that Pluto's polarity point would apply even if the resolution node were the South Node?

All the best,

Serban
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 09, 2010, 08:34 AM »

Hi Serban

Quote
Does this in any way imply that if the South Node had been the resolution node, Pluto's polarity point would not apply or am I misinterpreting what you wrote? More specifically, is it not true that Pluto's polarity point would apply even if the resolution node were the South Node?

As I understand it, when the South Node is the "resolution node", the natal position of Pluto, by House and Sign, serves for the resolution of the skipped steps. It is specific for that skipped steps planet. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto is still the baseline for the totality of the evolutionary intentions reflected in the birthchart, except that the skipped steps planet has to be dealt with through the natal position of Pluto.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 09, 2010, 10:40 AM »

Hi Gonzalo and Serban,

Hi Serban

Quote
Does this in any way imply that if the South Node had been the resolution node, Pluto's polarity point would not apply or am I misinterpreting what you wrote? More specifically, is it not true that Pluto's polarity point would apply even if the resolution node were the South Node?

As I understand it, when the South Node is the "resolution node", the natal position of Pluto, by House and Sign, serves for the resolution of the skipped steps. It is specific for that skipped steps planet. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto is still the baseline for the totality of the evolutionary intentions reflected in the birthchart, except that the skipped steps planet has to be dealt with through the natal position of Pluto.

God Bless,

Gonzalo

****************************************************************

The polarity point of Pluto does apply when Pluto is square the Nodes. When the resolution Node is the South Node this means that the entire life of the Soul must be consistently integrated through the S.Node and it's planetary ruler: by houses, signs, and aspects. The core issue to create a 'bottom' line in which the Soul integrates not only the polarity point of Pluto, but also the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler.

The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

The natural polarity point of Pluto thus evolves the natal placement of Pluto and this core evolutionary step is thus integrated through the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto itself. In essence the Soul will recreate prior life dynamics in the current life as symbolized by the natal Pluto, and the S.Node and it's planetary ruler. The polarity point of Pluto in combination with the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, will thus create the opportunity for the Soul to make new choices relative to those repeating dynamics that come forwards from the Soul's past. By making those new choices relative to the bottom line of the S.Node, it's planetary ruler and the natal position of Pluto, the Soul not only recovers the skipped steps, but is evolving those dynamics that then allows the Soul to proceed in it's evolutionary journey.


God Bless, Rad
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Wendy
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 09, 2010, 12:12 PM »

Hello Yasmine, Gonzalo, Ari, Serban & Rad,

I have been studying this thread this morning, and it is inspiring me to write out another skipped step scenario (which I will post soon on another thread) on my day off today.  So thank you Yasmine for posting and for all the responses thus far.

After reading Rad's post, I have a question~

Quote from: Rad
The polarity point of Pluto does apply when Pluto is square the Nodes. When the resolution Node is the South Node this means that the entire life of the Soul must be consistently integrated through the S.Node and it's planetary ruler: by houses, signs, and aspects.

If the planet squaring the SN is the skipped step and is also in opposition to Pluto, meaning Pluto is squaring the NN, does the above apply?  I'm sure you already made this clear, but for me to fully understand clarification here is important/necessary for me to integrate it.  

Quote from: rad
The core issue to create a 'bottom' line in which the Soul integrates not only the polarity point of Pluto, but also the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler.

This corresponds to integrating the sign opposite Pluto and any planets that exist at the polarity point, yes?

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?

Thank you Rad and all.

God Bless,
Wendy
« Last Edit: Dec 09, 2010, 12:54 PM by Wendy » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 09, 2010, 12:27 PM »

Hi Serban

In order to avoid any confusion, Rad's post refers to Pluto squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, ie. not Neptune. Neptune or other planets squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, is a totally different situation, to which I think what I posted before, applies.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Yasmine
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Posts: 6


« Reply #10 on: Dec 09, 2010, 01:27 PM »

Hello Ari,
Thanks for your thoughts!  Very interesting your statement about those with Pisces Virgo nodes and Neptune in Sag, having had many lives within Judeo Christian conditioning. “Guilt and confusion about what it means to be in flesh”….sigh…this has definitely been my experience!!!  When I read your post I was flashed back to the two times I have gone to see psychics. On these separate occasions both told me virtually the same story, which was of a life I had during the time of Jesus. I followed him and his teachings, but at some point was stoned for those beliefs.
Also with the North Node of Pluto being in the ninth house of my chart, I assume this also implies lifetimes of deep religious conditioning (very likely within the Judeo Christian realm which has predominated throughout  the Piscean age.) 
This whole thread has given me lots to think about
Much appreciation to everyone here. Your thoughts have been really helpful!
Yasmine Perez
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serban_p
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« Reply #11 on: Dec 09, 2010, 04:04 PM »

Hi Gonzalo,

In order to avoid any confusion, Rad's post refers to Pluto squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, ie. not Neptune. Neptune or other planets squaring the nodes applying to the South Node, is a totally different situation, to which I think what I posted before, applies.

Can you please explain why you are making this distinction between Pluto and the other planets when it comes to skipped steps? I was under the impression that the skipped steps rules apply regardless of the planet that is making the square to the nodal axis.

All the best,

Serban
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 09, 2010, 07:10 PM »

Hi Serban

Quote
Can you please explain why you are making this distinction between Pluto and the other planets when it comes to skipped steps? I was under the impression that the skipped steps rules apply regardless of the planet that is making the square to the nodal axis.

Many different variations of the skipped steps planets have been covered in this message board and have been explained by Rad in detail. Sometimes this matter becomes quite confusing for many of us. I understand this distinction is relevant for these reasons:

The skipped steps mean that the Soul has been fluctuating back and forth between the areas indicated by the house and sign positions of the South and North Nodes, and their planetary rulers; and the house and sign of Pluto itself and its polarity point. By fluctuating back and forth, none of these two areas has been developed completely, ie. to the point where evolution would require consciousness to totally embrace the polarity point of Pluto because the archetypes of the past-the natal position of Pluto-have been sufficiently learned. Thus, in the skipped steps signature the lessons pertaining to these archetypes “normally” symbolizing the past and the future have been worked upon, but they are incomplete and each of them requires further development: in some way both symbols represent the past, and both symbols represent the future. Given that Pluto and the Pluto polarity point, and the South and the North Nodes are opposite archetypes, it is necessary to determine which area has to be fully embraced by consciousness in first place, in order to complete their lessons and thus, unlock the past.

In any birthchart (without skipped steps) the integration point is the polarity point of Pluto. Thus, the polarity point of Pluto, by House and Sign, will constitute the bottom line of the birthchart: it will represent the archetypical dynamics that need to be fully embraced in order for evolution to proceed. When reading a birthchart, we need to point in this direction.

This will also be true when a planet squares the nodal axis: integration, and evolution, will occur through the archetypes of the polarity point of Pluto, and further, through the archetypes, by House and Sign, of the North Node, and its planetary ruler; except for the skipped steps dynamics, which need to be resolved by means of (a) the archetypes of the South Node, its planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto; or (b) the North Node, its planetary ruler, and the polarity point of Pluto; depending on which is the Node to which this skipped steps planet applies.

When Pluto is square the nodal axis, the totality of the evolutionary process will be integrated through the archetypes represented by these symbols (a or b), depending on which is the Node to which Pluto applies.

So, in the question you made initially about the Neptune skipped steps, if the resolution Node were the South Node, the answer would be different if that planet square the nodes were Pluto, instead of Neptune. With Neptune square the nodal axis, applying to the South Node, the integration point for the totality of the birthchart would be the polarity point of Pluto (except for the Neptune skipped steps). If it were Pluto that squares the nodes, applying to the South Node, in this case the integration point for all the birthchart (including the polarity point of Pluto), would be the natal position of Pluto.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 10, 2010, 11:10 AM »

Hi Wendy,

Quote from: Rad
The polarity point of Pluto does apply when Pluto is square the Nodes. When the resolution Node is the South Node this means that the entire life of the Soul must be consistently integrated through the S.Node and it's planetary ruler: by houses, signs, and aspects.

If the planet squaring the SN is the skipped step and is also in opposition to Pluto, meaning Pluto is squaring the NN, does the above apply?  I'm sure you already made this clear, but for me to fully understand clarification here is important/necessary for me to integrate it. 

*******************************************************************

You are now asking about another condition that can be found in birth charts. In the condition you are now asking about this would mean that the planet that is squaring the S.Node is also in opposition to Pluto, and Pluto is then squaring the N.Node. This also means that the planet that is opposed to Pluto is also within the range of being conjunct Pluto's polarity point. All of that symbolism then means that all of those archetypes have been activated prior to the current life. And all of those archetypes are in a skipped step situation. So let's make a simple example to illustrate this, and the resolution of it. Let's say Pluto in in the 4th, that Mercury is in the 10th and that this Mercury is squaring a 7th House S.Node, and Pluto is squaring a 1st House N.Node.

The core intention of the 4th House Pluto is to develop a state of inner security. With the N.Node in the 1st this would of course mean that the Soul has been desiring a state of almost total freedom and independence in order to actualize or act upon any experience that it feels drawn to do. And in so doing developing this state of inner security. Yet that Pluto is opposed the 10th House Mercury, which is square the 7th House S.Node. This would correlate to the Soul 'thinking' that in order to feel emotionally secure that it needed to be in relationship to others in general, and an intimate other specifically. The reasons that the Soul would think that can be many including not feeling that it was nurtured or loved in the ways that it felt it needed to be by the parents of origin: 4th/10th House.

So, in essence, the Soul is now conflicted within itself. This conflict would then manifest as cycles in which the Soul would desire to loose itself in the context of relationship: Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th, in opposition to Pluto. By doing this the Soul is then defeating it's core intention of learning an almost absolute state of inner emotional security. And the Soul, within itself, would know that because, after all, it's is it's own intention to do so. Thus, this sets in motion the next cycle in which the Soul then tries to throw off, oppose, all relationships in order to be free, independent, in charge of it's own life: Pluto in the 4th squaring the 1st House N.Node. Yet in reacting in this way it then has lead to the inner feeling of being totally alone and insecure. This would then lead the Soul to then go back to the other cycle of immersion in relationship in order to feel secure, and not alone. So back and forth the Soul goes within these two cycles without the archetypes of these dynamics being sufficiently developed: skipped steps.

With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.

In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.


***********************************************************************

Quote from: rad
The core issue to create a 'bottom' line in which the Soul integrates not only the polarity point of Pluto, but also the N.Node, and it's planetary ruler.

This corresponds to integrating the sign opposite Pluto and any planets that exist at the polarity point, yes?

********************************************************************

Yes

**********************************************************************

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?

**************************************************************************

In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

**********************************************************************

[/quote]

God Bless, Rad
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Rad
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 10, 2010, 11:37 AM »

Hi Gonzalo,

"So, in the question you made initially about the Neptune skipped steps, if the resolution Node were the South Node, the answer would be different if that planet square the nodes were Pluto, instead of Neptune. With Neptune square the nodal axis, applying to the South Node, the integration point for the totality of the birthchart would be the polarity point of Pluto (except for the Neptune skipped steps). If it were Pluto that squares the nodes, applying to the South Node, in this case the integration point for all the birthchart (including the polarity point of Pluto), would be the natal position of Pluto."

**************************************

The integration of any birth chart, in total, is Pluto. The archetype of Neptune, skipped steps or not, is within the Soul: Pluto. It is not somehow outside of the Soul, thus can not be integrated all by itself. The very context of the Neptune skipped step, or any other planet that correlates to a skipped step, indeed any other astrological symbol, are all within the context, the structure, of the Soul itself. The Soul is the determinant of all things. So in the case of Neptune applying to the S.Node, relative to it's square to the Nodal Axis, the resolution of those Neptune dynamics and issues is indeed that S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler. Yet that resolution is taking place within the total context of the Soul's evolutionary journey: past, present, and future. As such it is thus integrated within the total context of any given life that the Soul has, is, or will design.

*********************************

God Bless, Rad
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