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Gonzalo
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 10, 2010, 10:46 pm »

Hi Rad

Thank you for this clarification. Very insightful. I think this has many implications and direct practical applications. Within this, I wonder if one application would be that the “rules” concerning the skipped steps paradigm, more than “rules” would be like “guidelines”?  And that, rather than applying a rule to a bithchart, including observation of the “mitigating factors” reflected in the birthchart, ie. other aspects to the Nodes and to Pluto, it would be necessary to observe how the interface between past/future has been dealt with and/or resolved by the Soul, and thus, where is the Soul operating in terms of the archetypes of past and future?

Then, the “rules”, including observing the mitigating factors, would refer to evolutionary/karmic processes that the Soul has necessarily had to deal with, though, when reading a birthchart, it would be necessary to ascertain, through observation, how and to what extent that processes have been accomplished. Only once this is done, it could be possible to determine where the emphasis in the reading should be made, ie. natal Pluto or Pluto polarity point.

The “rule” of age, ie. second Saturn return, would also be relative to how and to what extent the evolutionary/karmic intentions involved in the skipped steps have been embraced by the Soul. Obviously, just being fifty eight years old will not produce by itself a release in the condition symbolized by the skipped steps.
 
I have another question arising from your post, but I need to think about it to see how to formulate, so I will post it later on.

Thank you so much, Rad

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 11, 2010, 10:53 am »

Hi Gonzalo,

 The methodology of EA, and thus it's 'rules', is what it is. And it has been tested for many, many years now through correlations and observation to ten's of thousands of Souls. Of course to understand where any given Soul is in their evolutionary journey, because of the natural law of free choice, requires observing their actual reality given the parameters of the evolutionary paradigm that is called Evolutionary Astrology.

God Bless,Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 11, 2010, 07:01 pm »

Hi Rad,

I apologize for asking this again, but I am not sure that I am interpreting correctly everything you wrote.

With respect to Pluto square the nodes and SN resolution node you wrote:
The natural polarity point of Pluto thus evolves the natal placement of Pluto and this core evolutionary step is thus integrated through the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto itself.

With respect to Neptune square the nodes and SN resolution node, you wrote:
So in the case of Neptune applying to the S.Node, relative to it's square to the Nodal Axis, the resolution of those Neptune dynamics and issues is indeed that S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler.

I noticed that you didn't mention the natal position of Pluto itself in the second scenario as being a part of the resolution of the skipped steps dynamics. So would it be correct to say that the natal position of Pluto is part of the integration of skipped steps only when Pluto is applying to the SN and not when other planets are applying to the SN?

In other words, did you include the natal position of Pluto in the first scenario (Pluto square) because it is the planet making the square, or because it represents the Soul’s patterns of identity association?

If you included it because it is the planet making the square and applying to the SN, would it be correct to say that, as a general rule, when any planet (including Pluto) is square the nodes with SN resolution node, the integration of those skipped steps can occur through: (i) the SN; (ii) the SN ruler; (iii) the squaring planet (whether Pluto or other planet).

All the best,

Serban
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 12, 2010, 08:28 am »

Hi Rad,

Thanks for this clarification.

I had thought that the “baseline” of the birthchart, ie. the polarity point of Pluto, was the point where integration occurs. Now I see from your recent post that the “baseline” and the “integration point” are different things.

Thus, integration occurs through the natal position of Pluto; the “baseline” of the birthchart is the polarity point of Pluto, ie. archetypical dynamics that need to be consistently embraced for evolution to occur; though, this archetypical dynamics, and their outcomes (new realizations, new experiences, etc.), need to be integrated, every time, during the whole life reflected in the birthchart, through the natal Pluto.

Is this correct?

Further, I had thought that, when Pluto or other planet squares the Nodes, given that the Soul has been fluctuating between (a) the archetypes of the South Node, its planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto; and (b) the North Node, its planetary ruler, and the polarity point of Pluto; integration would occur, in relation to the skipped steps planet, through (a) or (b) depending on which is the Node to which this skipped steps planet applies. Now I see that Pluto and Pluto polarity point are not involved in this alternative: only the Nodes and their rulers are. So, through embracing the Pluto polarity point (the “baseline” of the birthchart), and South Node and its planetary ruler, or the North Node and its planetary ruler (depending on which is the Node to which Pluto applies), the resolution of the skipped steps will occur; though, all of this resolution of the skipped steps needs to be integrated through the natal position of Pluto.

Is this correct?

Thank you so much.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Rad
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 12, 2010, 09:39 am »

HI Serban,

Hi Rad,

I apologize for asking this again, but I am not sure that I am interpreting correctly everything you wrote.

With respect to Pluto square the nodes and SN resolution node you wrote:
The natural polarity point of Pluto thus evolves the natal placement of Pluto and this core evolutionary step is thus integrated through the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto itself.

With respect to Neptune square the nodes and SN resolution node, you wrote:
So in the case of Neptune applying to the S.Node, relative to it's square to the Nodal Axis, the resolution of those Neptune dynamics and issues is indeed that S.Node, and the location of it's planetary ruler.

I noticed that you didn't mention the natal position of Pluto itself in the second scenario as being a part of the resolution of the skipped steps dynamics. So would it be correct to say that the natal position of Pluto is part of the integration of skipped steps only when Pluto is applying to the SN and not when other planets are applying to the SN?

******************************

No. I simply didn't mention it because I thought it was self evident. Pluto is the integration point for the Soul is any and all possible astrological dynamics we can see in a birth chart, including Neptune squaring the S.Node of the Moon.

******************************

God Bless, Rad



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Rad
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 12, 2010, 09:56 am »

Hi Gonzalo,

Hi Rad,

Thanks for this clarification.

I had thought that the “baseline” of the birthchart, ie. the polarity point of Pluto, was the point where integration occurs. Now I see from your recent post that the “baseline” and the “integration point” are different things.

Thus, integration occurs through the natal position of Pluto; the “baseline” of the birthchart is the polarity point of Pluto, ie. archetypical dynamics that need to be consistently embraced for evolution to occur; though, this archetypical dynamics, and their outcomes (new realizations, new experiences, etc.), need to be integrated, every time, during the whole life reflected in the birthchart, through the natal Pluto.

Is this correct?

********************************************************

Yes, and you can understand the 'baseline' and 'integration' point in this way if you wish. The way that JWG intended and taught this is that the 'baseline' of the chart is, at once, it's natal position of Pluto, and IT'S NATURAL POLARITY POINT. And that baseline is the the integration point for the entire chart with all possible astrological dynamics included such as planets squaring the Nodes.

***************************************************************

Further, I had thought that, when Pluto or other planet squares the Nodes, given that the Soul has been fluctuating between (a) the archetypes of the South Node, its planetary ruler, and the natal position of Pluto; and (b) the North Node, its planetary ruler, and the polarity point of Pluto; integration would occur, in relation to the skipped steps planet, through (a) or (b) depending on which is the Node to which this skipped steps planet applies. Now I see that Pluto and Pluto polarity point are not involved in this alternative: only the Nodes and their rulers are.

*************************

Pluto and it's polarity point are indeed involved in this. The Soul is the determinant of all things via the desires and the choices its makes. If the Soul does not make a choice to embrace it's natural polarity point then the entire birth chart, the life of the Soul, will remain stagnant. Nothing will evolve. No resolution of skipped steps will occur.

***************************

So, through embracing the Pluto polarity point (the “baseline” of the birthchart), and South Node and its planetary ruler, or the North Node and its planetary ruler (depending on which is the Node to which Pluto applies), the resolution of the skipped steps will occur; though, all of this resolution of the skipped steps needs to be integrated through the natal position of Pluto. Is this correct?

*********************************

Yes.



God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 14, 2010, 07:07 am »

Hi Rad, Gonzalo,

I’ve been going over what you wrote and I think that the issue I was having was not being able to understand the notions of “developing” something and “integrating” something.

So I have a more general question: is it correct to say that when something needs to be developed (be it the natal position of Pluto, a planet, a lunar node), this development occurs by embracing the polarity of whatever it is that needs to be developed and then integrating what is learned at that polarity point into the initial dynamics that needed development in the first place? In a nutshell, would it be correct to say that you develop something by embracing its polarity point and then integrating the polarity point into that something?

With respect to a planet square the nodes and applying to the SN that would translate as follows: in order to ensure that evolution proceeds, the skipped steps issues must be addressed. To do so, the Soul must develop the SN and its ruler (i.e., by developing I mean learning to do them in new ways). This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the NN and the polarity point of the SN ruler, and the new experiences that are learned in this way are referred back and integrated into the SN and the its ruler, thus enabling the SN and its ruler to metamorphose into new levels of expression.

On the other hand, when a squaring planet is applying to the NN, it is this node and its planetary ruler that need to metamorphose to new levels of expression, i.e. the Soul must learn to do them in new ways. This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the SN and the polarity point of the NN ruler. Once these dynamics are embraced, they are integrated back into the NN and its ruler, thus allowing for the resolution of the skipped steps.

In either case, the whole process occurs as part of the Soul’s evolution towards the polarity point of Pluto, which in turn needs to be referred to and integrated through the natal position of Pluto.

All the best,

Serban


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Rad
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 14, 2010, 09:56 am »

Hi Serban,

Hi Rad, Gonzalo,

I’ve been going over what you wrote and I think that the issue I was having was not being able to understand the notions of “developing” something and “integrating” something.

So I have a more general question: is it correct to say that when something needs to be developed (be it the natal position of Pluto, a planet, a lunar node), this development occurs by embracing the polarity of whatever it is that needs to be developed and then integrating what is learned at that polarity point into the initial dynamics that needed development in the first place? In a nutshell, would it be correct to say that you develop something by embracing its polarity point and then integrating the polarity point into that something?

***********************************************************

Yes. At any point in time any Soul has an existing reality that has already been 'developed'. And from the point of that which has been developed we continue to evolve beyond that which has already been developed. This is natural evolution. And as we evolve upon that which has been developed as on ongoing natural evolutionary process we must continually integrate this natural evolutionary process within the existing reality that we have developed at all times. This is natural and continuous process of life itself for all forms within the manifested Creation. The natal Pluto in the birth chart correlates to that which we 'developed' or evolved into prior to the current life. It's polarity point correlates to this natural evolutionary process relative to it's natal position that is evolving and being integrated all the time that allows for the ongoing evolution of the Soul. It is simply adding onto that which has already been actualized and developed at any point in time.

***************************************************************

With respect to a planet square the nodes and applying to the SN that would translate as follows: in order to ensure that evolution proceeds, the skipped steps issues must be addressed. To do so, the Soul must develop the SN and its ruler (i.e., by developing I mean learning to do them in new ways). This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the NN and the polarity point of the SN ruler, and the new experiences that are learned in this way are referred back and integrated into the SN and the its ruler, thus enabling the SN and its ruler to metamorphose into new levels of expression.

**********************************************************************

No. You are misunderstanding the nature of skipped steps which a planet squaring the Nodes correlates too. Skipped steps as symbolized in this way means that the Soul has already been 'developing' both Nodes, and their planetary rulers, prior to the current life yet has been flip flopping back and forth between those Nodes and their rulers. Thus, skipped steps because neither has been fully actualized or developed. For the Soul's evolution to proceed these skipped steps need to be recovered. And as they are recovered it requires a way of consistently integrating those skipped steps. The way of consistently integrating those skipped steps is determined by the Node that the squaring planet is applying too, and it's planetary ruler.

***********************************************************************

On the other hand, when a squaring planet is applying to the NN, it is this node and its planetary ruler that need to metamorphose to new levels of expression, i.e. the Soul must learn to do them in new ways.

***********************************************************************

Again, the issue here is not 'new ways'. The issue is recovering the skipped steps as explained above. The only thing that would be 'new' is the fact of recovering those skipped steps that then allows the Soul to continue it's ongoing evolutionary intentions.

************************************************************************

 This occurs by embracing the dynamics represented by the SN and the polarity point of the NN ruler. Once these dynamics are embraced, they are integrated back into the NN and its ruler, thus allowing for the resolution of the skipped steps.

****************************************************************************

What needs to be 'embraced' is the necessity for the Soul to recover the skipped steps, and how to go about doing that.

********************************************************************

In either case, the whole process occurs as part of the Soul’s evolution towards the polarity point of Pluto, which in turn needs to be referred to and integrated through the natal position of Pluto.

********************************************************************

Yes.

***********************************************************************

God Bless, Rad
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serban_p
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 14, 2010, 11:52 am »

Hi Rad,

Thank you so much for your answer and your patience. So in order for the skipped steps to be resolved, the Soul will have to consistently embrace the dynamics associated with the node to which the squaring planet is applying, and this in turn can be facilitated by embracing the dynamics associated with the ruler (planet, sign and house) of that node.

This means that there would not be a polarity point applicable to the ruler of the node to which the squaring planet applies, right?

All the best,

Serban
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Rad
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 14, 2010, 12:03 pm »

Hi Serban,

 Right ..............

God Bless, Rad
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Lucius
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 14, 2010, 09:04 pm »

Boy, I'm feeling a little 'tripped out' - I either have forgotten or never quite absorbed that the ruler of the node that has last applied to a squaring planet does not have a polarity point!  So, a SN aries that is the 'applying node' means that mars does not have a polarity point?

Interesting as in one of my 'square planets' rules the node that's applying & is retrograde - I had read in one of the Pluto books that a retrograde planet can mean that the polarity sign may already be developed - am I remembering this right?

Thanks!

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Wendy
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 14, 2010, 09:41 pm »

Hi Rad,

It's taken me awhile to respond back, and I thank you for your responses to my questions.  

You are now asking about another condition that can be found in birth charts. In the condition you are now asking about this would mean that the planet that is squaring the S.Node is also in opposition to Pluto, and Pluto is then squaring the N.Node. This also means that the planet that is opposed to Pluto is also within the range of being conjunct Pluto's polarity point. All of that symbolism then means that all of those archetypes have been activated prior to the current life. And all of those archetypes are in a skipped step situation.

So let's make a simple example to illustrate this, and the resolution of it. Let's say Pluto in in the 4th, that Mercury is in the 10th and that this Mercury is squaring a 7th House S.Node, and Pluto is squaring a 1st House N.Node.

The core intention of the 4th House Pluto is to develop a state of inner security. With the N.Node in the 1st this would of course mean that the Soul has been desiring a state of almost total freedom and independence in order to actualize or act upon any experience that it feels drawn to do. And in so doing developing this state of inner security. Yet that Pluto is opposed the 10th House Mercury, which is square the 7th House S.Node.

This would correlate to the Soul 'thinking' that in order to feel emotionally secure that it needed to be in relationship to others in general, and an intimate other specifically. The reasons that the Soul would think that can be many including not feeling that it was nurtured or loved in the ways that it felt it needed to be by the parents of origin: 4th/10th House.

This all makes so much sense when you explain it.  When I try to do it, I get overwhelmed and confused.  So I would like to try another scenario.  If we replace Mercury with Saturn in opposition to Pluto in the 4th, and the SN in the 6th, could I say, the soul feels compelled to establish itself in its career through some kind of service oriented work, but gets constantly tripped up by comparing itself to consensus, criticizing itself relentlessly for not being good enough, or perfect which propels the soul into constant guilt?  

I'm copying your language here to help me get this:


So, in essence, the Soul is now conflicted within itself. This conflict would then manifest as cycles in which the Soul would desire to judge and hurt itself in the context of self-induced guilt, or guilt via the consensus:  Saturn applying to SN in the 6th, in opposition to Pluto, which defeats the soul's core intention of establishing absolute inner emotional security?

Quote from: Rad
And the Soul, within itself, would know that because, after all, it's is it's own intention to do so. Thus, this sets in motion the next cycle in which the Soul then tries to throw off, oppose, all relationships in order to be free, independent, in charge of it's own life: Pluto in the 4th squaring the 1st House N.Node. Yet in reacting in this way it then has lead to the inner feeling of being totally alone and insecure. This would then lead the Soul to then go back to the other cycle of immersion in relationship in order to feel secure, and not alone.

So back and forth the Soul goes within these two cycles without the archetypes of these dynamics being sufficiently developed: skipped steps.


So the soul has functioned in one life (or many) in one aspect of the opposition/square, and in other lives in the other aspect of the opposition/square, but has not integrated the two together in any life?  

Quote from: Rad
With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.

In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.

If the soul was embracing their Pluto polarity point and Saturn, they would essentially create a career based in self-less service?  This is a simple example.

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?


**************************************************************************
In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

Okay, thank you.  The two planets are in a crescent phase, sextile, and make numerous aspects to other planets, namely they are in a Yod configuration with the Moon, and Pluto is in the 4th house.  SN dispositor  squares Saturn.  

Thank you Rad.  I am learning more and more everyday and I am grateful for this forum.

Blessings, Wendy

« Last Edit: Dec 14, 2010, 09:48 pm by Wendy » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 15, 2010, 10:02 am »

Hi Wendy,

Hi Rad,

It's taken me awhile to respond back, and I thank you for your responses to my questions. 

You are now asking about another condition that can be found in birth charts. In the condition you are now asking about this would mean that the planet that is squaring the S.Node is also in opposition to Pluto, and Pluto is then squaring the N.Node. This also means that the planet that is opposed to Pluto is also within the range of being conjunct Pluto's polarity point. All of that symbolism then means that all of those archetypes have been activated prior to the current life. And all of those archetypes are in a skipped step situation.

So let's make a simple example to illustrate this, and the resolution of it. Let's say Pluto in in the 4th, that Mercury is in the 10th and that this Mercury is squaring a 7th House S.Node, and Pluto is squaring a 1st House N.Node.

The core intention of the 4th House Pluto is to develop a state of inner security. With the N.Node in the 1st this would of course mean that the Soul has been desiring a state of almost total freedom and independence in order to actualize or act upon any experience that it feels drawn to do. And in so doing developing this state of inner security. Yet that Pluto is opposed the 10th House Mercury, which is square the 7th House S.Node.

This would correlate to the Soul 'thinking' that in order to feel emotionally secure that it needed to be in relationship to others in general, and an intimate other specifically. The reasons that the Soul would think that can be many including not feeling that it was nurtured or loved in the ways that it felt it needed to be by the parents of origin: 4th/10th House.

This all makes so much sense when you explain it.  When I try to do it, I get overwhelmed and confused.  So I would like to try another scenario.  If we replace Mercury with Saturn in opposition to Pluto in the 4th, and the SN in the 6th, could I say, the soul feels compelled to establish itself in its career through some kind of service oriented work, but gets constantly tripped up by comparing itself to consensus, criticizing itself relentlessly for not being good enough, or perfect which propels the soul into constant guilt? 

********************************************

In this example that is possible, but it is also just as possible, that the Soul own sense of authority, the Pluto/Saturn opposition from the 4th/10th, could manifest as the Soul feeling that it was more perfect than anyone else. Feeling more perfect that anyone else the Soul would present itself as THE authority to anyone, and would criticize all others who did not measure up to it's own perfect standards.

*************************************************

I'm copying your language here to help me get this:


So, in essence, the Soul is now conflicted within itself. This conflict would then manifest as cycles in which the Soul would desire to judge and hurt itself in the context of self-induced guilt, or guilt via the consensus:  Saturn applying to SN in the 6th, in opposition to Pluto, which defeats the soul's core intention of establishing absolute inner emotional security?

******************************************************************

Yes, it could be that way.

******************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
And the Soul, within itself, would know that because, after all, it's is it's own intention to do so. Thus, this sets in motion the next cycle in which the Soul then tries to throw off, oppose, all relationships in order to be free, independent, in charge of it's own life: Pluto in the 4th squaring the 1st House N.Node. Yet in reacting in this way it then has lead to the inner feeling of being totally alone and insecure. This would then lead the Soul to then go back to the other cycle of immersion in relationship in order to feel secure, and not alone.

So back and forth the Soul goes within these two cycles without the archetypes of these dynamics being sufficiently developed: skipped steps.


So the soul has functioned in one life (or many) in one aspect of the opposition/square, and in other lives in the other aspect of the opposition/square, but has not integrated the two together in any life? 

*******************************************************************

No, the flip flopping, the back and forth, would occur within the same lifetime(s).

*********************************************************************

Quote from: Rad
With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.

In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.

If the soul was embracing their Pluto polarity point and Saturn, they would essentially create a career based in self-less service?  This is a simple example.

********************************************************************

In your example here that could happen if the S.Node were also in the 6th. If Pluto were in Virgo, and Saturn in Pisces this could also manifest this way.

****************************************************************

Quote from: rad
The N.Node, and it's planetary ruler, prior to the current life has been used by the Soul to 'jump ahead' of the total resolution of the dynamics symbolized by the S.Node, and it's planetary ruler as well as the totality of the dynamics and issues within the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the dynamics symbolized by the N.Node and it's planetary ruler are not 'new'. They have been inconsistently actualized prior to the current life. As a result, they will serve as a 'temptation' for the Soul to jump ahead, to skip steps, again.

Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?


**************************************************************************
In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

Okay, thank you.  The two planets are in a crescent phase, sextile, and make numerous aspects to other planets, namely they are in a Yod configuration with the Moon, and Pluto is in the 4th house.  SN dispositor  squares Saturn. 

********************************************************************

If they are in a sextile then it's no likely that they are in the same house to start with. Like I said each case in unique and any of us would need to see the whole chart, and to observe the individual in question. Only then can a specific determination be made about this.

*********************************************************************


God Bless, Rad
« Last Edit: Dec 15, 2010, 11:26 am by Rad » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 15, 2010, 10:37 am »

Hi Lucius,

Boy, I'm feeling a little 'tripped out' - I either have forgotten or never quite absorbed that the ruler of the node that has last applied to a squaring planet does not have a polarity point!  So, a SN aries that is the 'applying node' means that mars does not have a polarity point?

********************************************************************

What sign that the Mars is in, as in any planet within a sign, has a natural polarity point within it. See below for a fuller explanation. The S.Node and it's planetary ruler, in all charts, has as it's polarity point the N.Node and it's planetary ruler.

*************************************************************************

Interesting as in one of my 'square planets' rules the node that's applying & is retrograde - I had read in one of the Pluto books that a retrograde planet can mean that the polarity sign may already be developed - am I remembering this right?


********************************************************************

Yes. Wolf taught that every sign has it's natural polarity WITHIN IT. Those natural inner polarity points of any sign evolve within the context of the sign as the ongoing evolutionary journey of the Soul occurs. IT JUST NATURALLY HAPPENS. When a planet is retrograde in a sign Wolf taught that such a Soul has focused, prior to the current life, upon that inner polarity of the sign in order to actualize the archetype of the planet that is in that sign. So, for example, is Mars in retrograde in Libra this would mean that that Soul has desired, focused, on evolving the Mars archetype within the natural Aries polarity that exits relative to Libra. Thus, that Mars archetype in Libra is essentially actualizing the whole of the Libra archetype through it's natural polarity: Aries. And this polarity would then be the lead point of how the Mars in Libra entered into, the orientation too, relationships. If Mars were not retrograde then the Mars in Libra would enter relationships, the orientation too, in the typical Libra way: codependent. This lead point would then be progressively evolved towards the natural polarity of Aries as the Soul's life unfolded over an entire lifetime.

God Bless, Rad

« Last Edit: Dec 15, 2010, 11:30 am by Rad » Logged
Wendy
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 17, 2010, 01:36 pm »

Quote from: wendy
Does this apply even if the NN and the SN planetary ruler are in the same sign and house?  Does this combination make 'temptation' even stronger?

Quote from: rad
In this symbolism there are skipped steps involving dynamics and issues linked with the houses the the Nodes are in, and the house that the planetary rulers of each are within. In my experience this is a relatively unique situation and requires some real investigation as to determine exactly what the nature of those skipped steps are. Considerations to examine are these: are the two planetary rulers in a balsamic conjunction, or new. What other aspects are they making to other planets. Where is the natal Pluto, and what aspects is it making. Each case in unique to itself of course. And because of this there is no way to say that the 'temptation' would be stronger or weaker as a general statement.

Hi Rad,

I realize I didn't make myself clear in my question above.  My question was if the North Node, plus the planetary ruler of the South Node are in the same sign and house (not both nodal planetary rulers) does that lead the soul towards further temptation regarding continuing in the 'skipped steps' mode.  

In looking at my question more closely, I think the answer is no.  I think/feel having the NN and the ruler of SN in the same sign and house would enhance the possibilities of the soul moving towards the intended evolutionary direction more readily.  Any thoughts?


Quote from: rad
With Pluto apply to the N.Node in the 1st, and the Mercury applying to the S.Node in the 7th the resolution becomes this: The Soul must keep learning how to be secure within itself by actualizing a life that is determined from within itself: it's own relationship to itself. Thus a life in which it can follow it's own inner directions CONSISTENTLY wherever they may lead. And, at the same time, engage in relationships with others in general, and an intimate other specifically, in which the very nature of those others is also one of self independence, and inner security. Others, by their very nature, help enforce the core lessons to this Soul: a state of inner security and independence in order to develop that inner security. Thus, the very nature of how others 'think' about relationships will be the same: the very nature of their psychological orientation to relationships will be the same.  In this way the 'skipped steps' symbolized with Mercury applying to the S.Node, and Pluto apply to the N.Node will be resolved.

If the soul was embracing their Pluto polarity point and Saturn, they would essentially create a career based in self-less service?  This is a simple example.

Quote from: rad
In your example here that could happen if the S.Node were also in the 6th. If Pluto were in Virgo, and Saturn in Pisces this could also manifest this way.

My intention here is to try to put into words how this above aspect to the nodes would express in the houses, as you did in your examples earlier.  I have to run now, but will come back to ask another question. 

Thank you for giving us (me) the opportunity to explore EA on this forum. 

God'dess Blessings,
Wendy





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