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Author Topic: Capricorn Archetype  (Read 14162 times)
Upasika
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« Reply #135 on: May 26, 2012, 05:39 PM »

Elen, glad it was helpful. It was always a bit of a riddle for me too ... 2nd individ so negative / 3rd indiv so positive..  took a lot of observation and contemplation till it dawned on me what the mechanics of it were about, what was involved, happening..
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 05:44 PM by Upasika » Logged
Elen
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« Reply #136 on: May 26, 2012, 06:03 PM »

Elen,

I think what you are saying here is really accurate! I totally agree.

And good luck with your moving.

blessings Upasika

Thank you, Upasika.
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Elen
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« Reply #137 on: May 26, 2012, 06:32 PM »

Hi Wendy and Rad,

I posted an analysis I did on Guy's chart but then removed.  I'm new to synastry so it seems I have to go very slow and thoroughly, looking at each chart, then the rest, which takes time.  It occurred to me after I posted that it might not be relevant/appropriate to what this thread is about and what Wendy is asking, so wanted feedback about that.  I do plan to keep looking at this and if time allows, continue to write up my thoughts.  Again, though, I'm not sure it is helpful/appropriate/etc to post individual chart analyses here....

Also, Wendy, just as an fyi, I wanted to look at your chart last night but it seems I copied and pasted the composite chart twice, labeling one Wendy and one Composite.  So, when I got home, I didn't have your chart!  A comedy of errors going on in my world Cheesy.  Looks like I will have internet at home soon.. Hooray!

Kristin, I appreciated your post.  Amazing to see it all put together!

Peace,
Elen
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Upasika
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« Reply #138 on: May 26, 2012, 06:56 PM »

Hi Wendy,

One last thought from me...

It feels to me like you are late 3rd indiv, on the cusp, or 1st Spiritual. Many things suggest 1st Spiritual.

Regarding your question about 3rd individ possibilities...

Quote
I most definitely relate to 3rd stage individuated, NN Gemini-Mercury in Leo/Sun Leo, and felt for much of my life that I had a great deal of creativity to share with the world, to somehow make a difference.  Once my soul and spirit arose and my consciousness deepened, I began to question any contribution I may have...does the world really need this? I don't need any recognition for making a contribution...maybe this desire 'publishing book to affect the collective' is a meaningless desire and I should just concentrate on my relationship with spirit (this is where I go back and forth), although now I am very clear that what is coming through me will be shared, how is another question).  

I feel that if I don't follow through with offering a contribution, a beautiful, creative and deeply spiritual contribution that I will have to do this all over again, and why, why should I back to do this part, if I can do it now--because I doubt? myself, the worth of what I'm writing, etc.  That said, I have extensive Virgo/Pisces, signature of a weak ego, so of course, I am questioning, doubting, but that Virgo is in square to 12th house planets, plus my Leo planets are imbued with Neptune, which all lead back to Spirit--creative self-actualization within the house of Spirit, to develop, birth an refined ego?  This part confuses me


The journey through the stages is all about our separating desires - exhausting them until the desire to return is all that's left. It seems to me many desires can be dropped simply by observing them, watching them, and watching them - without activating them.

Desires arise all the time, in all shapes and sizes. I want a coffee, I want to go for a walk, I want to live in a better house, I want to see a friend, I want to avoid doing things I don't like, I want to be a better person, I want, I want... left to itself the body/mind seems to breed desires like a stagnant pond breeds mosquitos!

And certainly with trivial desires it is easy to just note them, but do nothing about them, and just by waiting they disappear - they were only trivial. Something else starts happening and they are forgotten.
But with others, even when not acted upon, it may take 6 months or a year or more for the energy in a desire to dissipate.

But I feel there are some desires that are deep, core desires. Stubborn ones. Doesn't matter how much you watch them, for how long, they aren't disappearing, they aren't going anywhere. I feel these desires need to be lived, and only by pursuing them, experiencing them are they exhausted.

So, it occurred to me that a possibility (and I'm just suggesting it as a possibility) is that this desire you talk about in the quote above is perhaps the last core 3rd individ separating desire that you may have - that it might need to be lived to be truly exhausted. That you are very, very ready to be in the 1st spiritual, so prepared to be in it, but have this one last 3rd individ separating desire. And that is holding you back. (It may have something to do with that Saturn skipped step). It sounds like a very worthwhile thing to do, even if just for yourself, the value being in the effort itself, but it could probably also benefit many.

I don't know if this is the case at all or not. Has this desire been with you through thick and thin, over a long period of time? Does it feel like a deep need inside to fulfil this desire?

Hypothetically speaking (just using imagination for a second) ... if somehow something arose that removed, completely denied the possibility of pursuing this desire, totally wiped it out of your grasp for ever, and nothing was given to replace it, nothing at all - how would you feel? Would you feel a major important, perhaps essential way for you to grow had been taken away from you?
... just an exercise perhaps to explore any deeper feelings you may have about it.

However, maybe you are in 1st Spiritual, and this is a prompting from Source. And if the possibility was inexplicately taken away from you, even with nothing to replace it, you felt no loss at all...

I'm not proposing anything either way, not even sure if it's a suitable way to approach it, it's just a last thought I had Wendy...

blessings Upasika
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 07:27 PM by Upasika » Logged
Kristin
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« Reply #139 on: May 27, 2012, 09:37 AM »

Hi Upasika,


You wrote
I have a question about the composite Pluto. Generically Pluto in the 1st in the composite indicates that the relationship between the two people is relatively brand new. But with Wendy and Guy there are also a lot of indications that they have been deeply intertwined in past lives on multiple levels, and that it isn't that new at all.


The Composite 1st House Pluto can also correlate to a new cycle of being, as in the relationship taking on a new theme. In this case this new cycle correlates and will ultimately lead to a parting of ways seen with Pluto/Mars Balsalmic, North Node in the 12th as well. When this occurs and this depends on Guy's response, as in will he agree to the new and necessary terms? If he wants what he can't have, and demands more 'or else', the trail ends here. If he wants her higher help then she can help him for perhaps lifetimes to come in some higher way however it will lead to a parting of ways at some point because of the evolutionary gap and the natural evolutionary process of this connection.

The different pages, different stages has been clear all along but the pain and inner void due to the evolutionary gap has been increasing for Wendy and she is progressively developing the necessary objectivity seen with her natal Pluto Uranus Balsalmic in the 4th as well as their Composite Pluto Uranus in the 1st. This life it feels as if, and the intention is that there were be no more flip flopping (Composite Venus in Libra in the 3rd square the nodes). She may have known or felt what the right thing do in the past was but could not help but fall back into it, the feeling of relative security of being needed, the groove in the record can be so deep,  SO I see this as the first life she finally deepens that new groove for the new song to play, initiating a new and more evolved relationship that sticks not flips, if and only if he can be on board for that.

An end to the old but a start to the new.

Hope that makes it more clear.

Peace,
Kristin
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 10:00 AM by Kristin » Logged
Upasika
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« Reply #140 on: May 27, 2012, 04:27 PM »

Yes Kristin, makes it really clear, thanks.
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Wendy
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« Reply #141 on: May 27, 2012, 04:29 PM »

Hi Kristin and All,

I want to first say thank you for posting all that you have, and for helping me see the deepest bottom-line truth of my Pluto.  So much resonates, on very deep levels.  I am absorbing it all and want you all to know how very grateful I am.  Initially it took courage to put all of this out here on the forum, now I am processing it and working with my emotions, seeing the pain in a whole new light, thus I will post as often as my inner self directs.  This pattern goes way back, but the root of it is coming up and out now.

Basically reading, what you wrote about 'giving, but at what cost' and 'dramatically delayed your own soul evolution' floored me to the degree of feeling/experiencing deep deep shock and soul memory (almost like a coffin opening with this aspect of my soul being freed), to have what I have been feeling mirrored back in such as deep and profound way--it is truly liberating, and heart-wrenching.

It's one thing to know something, intuit it (Sag) understand it, which is normal for me, but to articulate it--soul bottom line with so much clarity thru words is a whole new evolutionary dynamic for me.  Having it spelled out like this is phenomenal, because I can bypass the Gemini piece that calls for me to use words--to get it--really really get it.  Thank you.

from your post:
With Pluto’s opposition to Saturn, the ruler of your Moon in Cap in the 8th, house of metamorphosis of the Soul, your Soul is here to throw off the blocks barriers, fears, feelings of inferiority and escapism that ensued that kept you thwarted and frozen, so much so these signatures clearly show you have entered relationships in this life and others that have ‘dramatically’ delayed your own evolution

There are clear masochistic tendencies here by wanting to save and rescue the partner, projecting an image of more than they are capable of becoming perhaps and attracting those more wounded than yourself which helped you to feel a sense of place and purpose, Mars in Libra in the 5th.These 4th house signatures really deny any Soul from getting the love they want until they learn how to self provide in every way and until in your case the healing from lifetimes can happen. To chose to remain alone and communing with God will prove to help you restore and recover your nature versus choosing another relationship that holds you back and depletes your life force.


This is my deepest desire and I had created that for many years, with lots of time of Spirit, communing with nature animals--this fosters my Saturn Pisces function to operate optimally, which has been disturbed the last several years.

It's shocking to my system to see that I have such a deep pattern of masochism.  Since Rad has been posting all the transcribed lectures, I have gained so much, and clearly see how deep the signature is for me, and now  feel it too after reading your post.  The other piece that is so intensely overwhelming at times is: all the functions my Pluto desires to integrate, i.e., Pluto 4th House (Cancer), Pluto Venus (2nd House Pluto Taurus theme), Pluto square NN (Pluto in the 12th theme w/Gemini), Pluto Uranus, and PPP (10th House Pisces theme).

The grand cross suggests that I have avoided this integration many many times, and I guess I will have many many more lives to work it out, Pluto Mars new phase.  This awareness is humbling as well.

With Uranus Pluto in 4th of family, I came along as the wild card that brought the issues to a head and began to break free from the constraints of lifetimes of familial patterns, for myself and for the lineage of both my parents families, which included sincere healing in the emotional body, confrontations and deep forgiveness on my part.  It's really quite amazing all the miracles that have come forward over all these years, due to my, one, willingness, and two, because my soul and Spirit needed to recover in that way.  So yes, I did divorce myself from family, which took many years to achieve, and I now have healthy relationships with them, as my evolutionary function demanded that or nothing, thus we have all evolved, some of us at greater leaps and bounds that others.

The codependency issue is interesting too because I have been radically opposed to relationships that held that signature, and have turned down getting married four times in this life, because I just can't handle any pull on my energy (meaning those proposals where with men who didn't have strong cores), and have spent a great deal of time outside of intimate relationships, even though I have a strong Cancerian/Libra nature, that orients me to desire to join, share, and build a life that includes other in a deep and significant way.  That said, I have continued to have relationships over the years that bring this issue (Mars-Moon square) right to the surface every time, trusting teachers too that have not been worthy of it...maybe next life relative to Venus Mars in balsamic phase, and with focus of polarity of Mars Aries in the 11th, I can-will liberate further.  All this gives me a great deal of surety in my direction forward.

I too wondered about the medicine woman aspect (healing for many lives), but I do resonate with the older sibling sister to Guy.  In this life the attraction is more about home and love (Cancer-Venus) than a sexual nature.  I am attracted to him physically (Mars), but there is no energy there for me, even when we were dating that dissolved quickly (I guess some part of me knew).

In regard to Medicine or Holy Woman, if my soul has changed genders in the recent lives, would it be more likely that I was a male then, in these lives with Guy?

Kristin's post:
In the past too there may have been the instinct to have intimate relations but her age difference in that time and/or responsibilities and roles, perhaps even his injuries preventing this, with him took precedence. This attraction can also be seen with Guy’s Jupiter, the ruler of Wendy’s South Node in her 7th on the descendent.

Wondering if Wendy too may have been a medicine woman for the tribe???, including for the animals and beyond her responsibility to him through family she may have been a nurse maid or medicine woman for the warriors when they were injured in battle. I see this with her South Node in Sag in the 6th...ruler Jupiter in Gemini in the 12th trine Mars in Libra in the 5th. Also the Pluto, Uranus, Venus in Virgo i the 4th.


From what I have posted, it may seem that Guy and I are in contact a great deal.  Generally that is not the case at all, and I'm sure our deep rooted history is acting as a catalyst for evolution, as well as my sincere desire to understand the function of Mars Libra square Capricorn Moon, because it has continued to bring me more of the same old relationship patterns, and t-Saturn right on natal Mars, and T-Mars on 4th house stellium--the clarity is finally coming!!! with all of your help.
 
Depending on Guy's interest in evolving, and my own need to balance our interaction, we may be able to foster a healthy connection.  I know he wants the best for me and is not insistent on having me in his life in a particular way.  God knows we didn't talk for close to twenty years, so for this to be coming up now (t-Pluto in Capricorn, Saturn squaring composite nodes), I feel only blessings will come thru, with honesty-healing, especially if I share with him the depth of our connection, which may transform his attraction-projection onto me, into higher planes, consciousness.

Kristin's post:
Your Mars in Libra square Cap Moon in the 8th suggests you have put other people needs in front of your own so much so you were delaying your own evolution which is why of course this relationship in the way it has been cannot happen. It is important for anyone further along on the path to extend the hand down the mountain which is so reflective in your Cap Moon, but at exactly what price?

This broke me open, right down to the bottom line of my soul's deep pain (Venus Mars Libra).  This pattern is so ingrained, almost unconscious (is that because of square to Mars and its link to Pluto?).

Kristin's post:
You must strike a balance. And for you Wendy personally he represents someone is a blood line, your family and after losing parents perhaps you bonded in unimaginably deep ways knowing you were all one another had..and so he had a way of taking care of that ache in you. And you had a way of taking care if that ache in him. Guy’s Sun on your 5th house Mars is like filling that bottomless pit of need with light..or serving as the motivation to keep on living.

This is true right now.  I come in and out of balance (progressed Libra-ugh!), feeling totally at one with God and then back into absorbing others people's energy patterns/ego, especially living in other peoples homes, I am experiencing 12th house Pluto/Pisces stress.

Kristin's post:
Of course you have natural nurturing care taking tendencies with the strong Cancer energy and Mars in Libra so it is a natural instinct to give and to help.

working to heal the unresolved trauma linked with tribe, family and those things associated with home that have weighed heavy and caused you to emotionally bleed. In essence you were divorcing yourself, Uranus, from your 4th house Pluto family. In this signature it also suggests the trail of tears linked with certain people including loss of tribe, and dynamics can finally be resolved and put to rest. [/color]


I have carried this pain for a long time and have resolved a great deal, but the desire for real-time community lingers, and I feel fulfilled on a very deep level within this community.  I feel my Mars in square to SN's of Saturn and Pluto have a great deal with further healing that needs to occur for me move forward, evolutionarily speaking.  It's an interested synastry.  I've always had deep anger at the government, but also have evolved enough to know not take them on again, directly.

It sure feels timely for you now with this community offering an objective forum Uranus balsamic to Pluto to help you resolve the remaining emotional threads for good - Welcome Home!

Thank you Kristin--the other day when I posted about that, I felt I had entered my 12th house, consciously embodied, for the first time, plus reading 12th House Pluto in the Pluto book opened the way (spoke volumes to me).  

Also, I just realized that my progressed Mercury is right on SN of my Venus (1 Libra).  Amazing how this stuff works!

God Bless you all.

with love,
Wendy
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 06:28 AM by Wendy » Logged
Upasika
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« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2012, 05:24 PM »

Hi Wendy,

Thank you for sharing all that, being so open with your own personal process. And I also got a lot out of your own response to Kristin's analysis, the way you described your new understanding of the signatures in your chart and how you see yourself working with them from hereon. Letting us share in your learning experience is great learning for us too (well it certainly is for me anyway).

Your life story and your response here is very touching.

blessings Upasika
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Kristin
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« Reply #143 on: May 28, 2012, 09:47 AM »

Wendy,

Evolving can be a painful way to travel, most often it is, especially when there are old or unhealthy patterns. My heart goes out to you. Know that you do have the support of this community here along of course with the Great one God and his/her agents above who are applauding these brave steps.

It is important more than ever now if you feel emotionally fileted, to take the necessary time to integrate which can allow for some permanent shifts to occur. You have been working on this for more than this life and your quote about turning down 4 marriage proposals is an example of this. It feels like a final bend in the road as it relates to a lot of these dynamics, a life where you can finally be emotionally set free from certain emotional burdens

You wrote "The grand cross suggests that I have avoided this integration many many times, and I guess I will have many many more lives to work it out, Pluto Mars new phase.  This awareness is humbling as well."

One thing try not to (4th house Virgo) overwhelm yourself with this thought above because with too much focus on certain symbols or past holding it can create even more resistance or paralysis which is what energized that grand cross in the first place.. From my point of view you are making a big breakthroughs not only starting with the courage to bring this here for all to see in order to guarantee closure of some kind but this life represents great movement based on what you have shared. Rad correct me if I am wrong but it does not feel to me that it will take 'many many lifetimes to work it out'.

You asked about gender together and in recent lives I still feel you were an older woman more responsible for him in his life..Composite SN in Cap as in the sister who became the mother, and some other scenarios, Rad if it is appropriate and will help Wendy, can you add to that? But I also can see you as male warriors together and the story I shared..I do not have the capacity to clearly see the examples beyond that. I feel what is most important here separate from the specific story is the emotioanl dynamics that you are aware of that have linked and locked you to him in some way.

Wishing you continued growth, heart open, head high and soul evolving.
peace,
kristin
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Elen
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« Reply #144 on: May 28, 2012, 02:20 PM »

Hi Wendy,

Thank you for sharing your journey.  I will not add anything more as it feels to me that you have received all that you have needed.  Thank you for the opportunity to learn and grow in understanding.

Wishing you peace and happiness,
Elen
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Wendy
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« Reply #145 on: May 28, 2012, 03:56 PM »

Thanks to everyone, and I wanted to further clarify about the mutable patterns in my chart.  I have been dealing with parasitic energy for most of my life, I just attract it (Leo light shines/attracts and Pisces/Virgo picks it up), thus I have been consciously developing, working on building a core inner structure for close to 23 years.  Learning to stabilize has been a challenge, as there has much much desire for it and loads of resistance (fear of being full, or lack of worth, both), thus bumps in the road, which bring me back to the same issues.

What I understand now, is how relative the aspect-phase of Mars Pluto, and how significant the Mars Moon aspect is for me.  I have read all this stuff in the Pluto, but it didn't permeate, until now. 

I did write up an analysis of my chart and Guy's chart, and wanted to post them, mostly to get the astrological education of chart analysis.  I hope to post them tomorrow.  Rad, please let me know if I should not post them.

Thanks so much everyone and Upasika I plan to continue the dialogue about evolutionary states too.

love and blessings,
wendy

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Wendy
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« Reply #146 on: May 28, 2012, 08:32 PM »

Hi Elen,

Hi Wendy,

Thanks again for this great topic.

You wrote:  "Can a 1st stage spiritual soul have the need to develop an ego?"

Others will be able to answer this better than I can, but in the DVD course, I recall JWG making the point that even Jesus had an ego - enlightened people have egos. 

In my understanding, the question isn't, does an ego need to develop, but to whom is the ego in service? 

I also feel quite strongly, and this coming out of my own journey at this time, that part of the "success" of the patriarchy has been the obstruction of the healthy development of ego

If a healthy ego were not necessary to develop, why would the Soul bother to manifest it?  The ego is the individualized aspect of the Soul and can be said to "serve" the Soul's purpose. 

If it is weak/undeveloped, it seems to me that the Soul's intentions can't ever really be realized.  And this, in turn, would mean that the intention of Source could also not be realized. 

I get the sense, also, with regard to my own journey, that an undeveloped ego can be mistaken for humility.  An undeveloped ego is not in fact humility, it is victim-hood

Again, it's not the development or existence of an ego that is the question, but to whom or what is the ego oriented or in service to.

My thoughts on this, anyway.  Others will correct any errors........

Peace,
Elen

This is so right-on Elen.  Thank you for sharing it.

love and blessings,
wendy
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Linda
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« Reply #147 on: May 29, 2012, 03:50 AM »

Hi Wendy,

There's not much more I can add to Kristin's great analysis of the charts.  I just remembered that I did a reading for you via personal message last year, and I've copied a few pertinent excerpts here:

The dependencies on others are symbolized by Pluto conjunct Venus – love relationships or attachments – and also Uranus in balsamic conjunction to Pluto – detaching in order to be able to objectify your behaviour patterns and therefore changing them.  

As you are an aware Soul, you do understand how attaching to others, or others attaching to you, can become quite unhealthy leading to co-dependency.  

The archetype of Juno/Aquarius/8th ruled by Uranus in balsamic conjunction to Pluto/4th means that you are able to DETACH, to become emotionally SELF-SECURE, to be FREE within your relationships......essentially to create SELF-SUFFICIENT relationships.

****

I feel that you are at the beginning of 1st stage Spiritual, and that you have resolved your compound skipped steps through the consistent focus upon your spirituality/dharma/writing/Natural Laws.

Transiting Pluto will exactly conjunct your Magdalena 8 deg Capricorn 7th house next month (June) with T-Uranus squaring it from your 10th house.  This transit will last for a couple of years.  

Thanks and blessings,

Linda


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Rad
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« Reply #148 on: May 29, 2012, 07:32 AM »

Hi Kristin,

"Rad correct me if I am wrong but it does not feel to me that it will take 'many many lifetimes to work it out'."

************

This all depends on the choices being made. It certainly isn't 'fated' that this would be so.

**********

God Bless, Rad

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Elen
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« Reply #149 on: May 29, 2012, 06:51 PM »

Glad that helped, Wendy.  Something I've been thinking about lately.....

Peace,
Elen
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