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Author Topic: Aquarius archetype  (Read 4240 times)
Lia
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« Reply #30 on: Feb 17, 2011, 04:28 AM »

Hi Gonzalo and All,

In regards to the chart you guys are discussing a few thoughts I wanted to share: re. duplicity or 'plurality' of intimate relationship: the 8th house cusp is gemini ruled by mercury in the 10th in virgo conj. sun. This gives an insight to why, also to the denial regarding what you call not 'admitting polygamy' as well as 'not wanting to talk about sex'.  The 10th cusp is leo - so the soul is used to being viewed as 'special' 'in social spheres however this appearance involved a lot of denial of the actual reality = mercury conj. sun in virgo trine to mars in 6th in taurus, mercury rules the 7th and the 8th while has the natural rulership over the 6th house archetype, at the same time 6th house is ruled by venus in 11th conj. uranus. The soul's own essential needs has been alienated from and 'replaced' by the needs of others, trying to get what the soul wanted via 'exchange' which lead to repeated traumas and ever more denial. It's important to note that the 11th house is ALSO ruled by the same mercury in virgo. The whole current life is but a culmination of certain past patterns in order to be able to recognise what needs to be changed in order to go forward. The major repetition signatures:  sat balsamic to s.node, mercury balsamic to sun, venus (ruler of all libra planets and 6th mars) balsamic to uranus.

One of the key issues in understanding the chart patterns is that the soul comes from an evolutionary past that amongst other things, at times involved being sexualised in childhood by older people (saturn on s.node in 8th in cancer square pluto in libra, while pluto is trine to jup in the 3rd in aq: alienation from her own personal truth within due to trauma/shock that has been suppressed thus stays in the deeper layers of the subconscious)

The sexualisation happened usually by family members (cancer) which can include siblings as well. These older people seemed essential for the soul who can give the 'security' that the soul needed, so the soul deeply trusted them and their 'guidance' (8th house sat) and at the same time totally depended on them which was part of the underlying conditioning. These patterns typically prevented the soul's emotional development in other words locked the soul into immaturity and dependency. (Sat in cancer correlates to souls whose emotional maturation has been frozen in childhood for some reason; in this case conj. the south node shows that this is an underlying key pattern relative to the soul's evolutionary past.) 

 Security needs have been experienced via 'symbiosis' of one kind or another and the issue is very much as Patricia said; the soul never been accepted/loved for who it is. Rather there is a fundamental fear of ever 'finding out' who the soul 'really is'. Trying to create a 'self image' via relationships via merging with others in order to 'avoid' what the soul fears most:  finding out that it maybe true that 'who she is' is 'worthless, unwanted, unlovable' and maybe even 'evil' etc. For this is what happened in the past when the soul tried to rebel . Appears that the soul is over the worst (moon is new phase to uranus) so the current life childhood may or may not involved sexualisation by family members but the pattern of this 'symbiosis' manipulation for survival for having one security needs met etc. has already built in and the soul doesn't know why. It's a reflection of a belief that it can not get what it needs only via  'exchange' trying to give what others 'needed' so that they may give what the soul needs. But of course this doesn't work - the major lesson is that love can neither be manipulated nor 'earned'.

That's where the major frustration originates from via the kind of conditioning the soul received in the past.
The major lesson is self love and self acceptance - which no relationship can give with this pattern for the soul's tendency is to totally 'hide' in the merging and define itself according to what and how others 'see' in her. The final goal would be to be able to gain the courage and 'face' itself as she really is and realise that she is nothing what others said she 'was'.(all the libra planets polarities fall in the 5th in aries)  In my view the soul will repeat the frustration pattern for at least until the second saturn return (sat on s.node)  in order to culminate and exhaust all the residue that comes from the past dynamics for the soul is afraid to let go the 'security' (cancer) that appears to be possible only via emotional etc. 'symbiosis' of one kind or another.

The relationships she creates/attracts are symbolising this past pattern and all of them typically a 'matching pattern'; meaning what the soul would need to ask herself at one point is something like: what is the NEED in me for this to happen? If she can eliminate the 'need' (which comes from both cancer and libra needing others to make her 'okay' ) she can gradually 'recreate' herself (aries 5th house polarity and 2nd house n.node) according to her own valuesystem independent of others. Aq. is on the 4th but no planet in it correlates to the fact that her own emotional dynamics have aspects that are totally 'unknown' to her and she will discover them via a serious of 'surprises' or 'shocks' - there is a lot of guilt and fear have been internalised (2nd house starts with sag but most of it is capr. and n.node points to capr.) Point being the soul at one point will need to consciously and deliberately sort out the reality of all these internalised issues and one day she may recognise the fact that most of it came from childhood conditioning and not being able to separate herself from those around who represented 'security'. So emotional maturity is one of the key issues, but again I personally think that it will be a long journey and indeed the soul will have to go 'back' before it can release these dynamics and can go forward.

Going back in this life would mean attending some form of therapy (polarity of uranus in 5th in aries instead of trying to 'liberate' herself via others and relationships try to find out 'who the heck I am') that helps her to unravel at least the current life childhood issues and beliefs. (past lives would give a greater perspective of course but the current childhood itself can hold secrets the person may not have a clue  consciously) She needs to stop trying to 'objectify' partners and/or relationships (including parents, siblings etc.) and attempt to objectify ITSELF independent of dependencies and relationships. 

 The other aspect of 'not knowing' herself (other than aq. on 4th without planet in it) can be worded in a way: having certain amounts of illusion about how and what she 'does' (actively manifests in life) correlates to pisces 5th cusp ruled by 12th neptune in sag which is inconj. s.node and sat. But the 5th also points the way forward by having aries in it and all the libra planets polarities, including PPP. Appears like a very important culmination period in the current life with the hidden promise of a brand new cycle after all the confusions, illusions and dissolution.....

From what you said so far about her reality and looking at the corresponding chart patterns it appears to me that she may not be as 'high' on the evolutionary ladder as you suspected. Rather it seems to me that some of the core issues are played out regarding the 1st individuated, typically being afraid of living her inner reality and tremendous fear from judgment and being ‘cast out’ yet not being able to ‘conform’ anymore. This created tremendous tension push and pull at the same time including the skipped steps; all revolving around the 11th house planets and on the other hand the s.node that the soul suppose to ‘break off’ attached to saturn: in the bigger picture it represents the security patterns of consensus and the n.node is about finding her own inner authority as her own independent ’roots’ without dependency on others.

Of course I don’t know the person - but I would suggest reconsidering the evolutionary state for I don‘t see anything that relates to being an independent thinker, or doing anything special or worthwhile on behalf on the community. Rather I see a lot of hiding and denial and at the same time anger, frustration rebellion inwardly which is rather 1st individuated struggling - yet progressing toward having the courage to be who she actually is: entrance to 2nd individuated....

Lia
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Linda
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« Reply #31 on: Feb 17, 2011, 02:20 PM »

Hi Lia,

Thanks for covering the intricacies of this chart so well and so comprehensively. 

It's great learning from you.
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Lia
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« Reply #32 on: Feb 17, 2011, 09:15 PM »

Hi All,


In regards to the aquarian archetype, what I’d like to highlight is not specific to aq. but relates to all archetypes including aquarius.  No archetype can be understood correctly unless we understand the bottomline of what they are: they are but one end, one EXTREME of an evolutionary pair or axis.
The ‘law of polarity’ as Jeffrey put it is one of the underlying evolutionary forces. Understanding the archetypes as pairs on an axis  inherently connected and being actually the two different ‘ends’ or aspects of the SAME thing will put them into perspective.  (The same law is reflected via the PPP or the nodal axis etc. There is nothing within creation that is not relative. Yes even pisces for it correlates to OUR own perception of the divine which doesn’t equal to THE ‘divine’ itself. The divine is within everything, relative to the language of astrology thus the whole chart and each archetypal pair )  

 No matter what archetypal pair we are observing what needs to be remembered is that, the final 'truth' or the 'goal' is never in one or the other end of the polarity: it is reaching BALANCE between them. Applying both in proportion. Too much of one or the other will swing us out of balance and necessarily so; that’s the way we ‘work‘.  But at the end the ‘goal’ the ‘truth’ hidden in the archetypal axis is in the ‘midpoint’ or centre point of the chart. No matter where we start the balance is by way of the polarity which points back to the invisible mid point on centre point....interesting hidden reminder that the ‘source’ is not here and not there but everywhere and yet unmoved ...Only our approach moves and changes our understanding evolves...

During this process of swinging towards one extreme then the other balance is facilitated by the law of polarity meanwhile we are embracing ever larger and larger 'wholes' - relative to our consciousness level at any point of time and space. So as we evolve further on our journey we embrace broader and broader wholes within the whole spectrum of the archetypal pairs. What it means to embrace leo/ aq. in the consensus or individuated or the spiritual will be vastly different and yet the underlying 'law'  that will force the polarity to be embraced and evolve further will be the same.

There is no 'good' or 'bad' or 'better' or 'worst' signs or archetypes they always are a PAIR interacting and balancing each other. Both end needs to be developed and what is 'good' is relative to the current evolutionary lessons which is relative to the entity or soul and its particular evolutionary direction.

 Every single archetype is equally 'divine' and necessary and comes from the same source - and so is its polarity. If we can remember that we will be able to apply more compassion and less mistake/ projection that may lead to false judgment. Lets remember what Jeffrey said: “ Be careful for you can PROJECT almost anything into any chart.“  This is especially important in regards to aquarius for projections are typically unconscious and everything that doesn’t seem ‘familiar’ or ‘known’ we can not ‘box it in’ or it’s too ‘strange, unexpected or different’  may trigger our own unconscious issues and we may project a totally false interpretation onto the ‘aquarian phenomena‘. This is especially true within patriarchal reality.

It is actually interesting that Ari brought up ’boredom’. Well, YES objective impersonal reality can be  ‘boring‘ for the person who is FAMILIAR with it, in other words people with strong aquarian signature may be indeed bored from issues that others may find stimulating and exciting.
Actually excitement and stimuli is typical leo phenomena and a very important one. For example stimuli is a crucial ingredient for child development (leo) If a child will not be exposed to enough healthy stimuli it will become developmentally delayed. Typical aq. phenomena by the way, patriarchal heritage of child abuse and neglect causes it. Impossible in natural societies where children are brought up on a communal basis. Neglect a child totally, don’t talk to it don’t give any stimuli it will not be able to speak, it may not be able to even move in extreme cases.

But in lesser cases if the child never receives acknowledgment, loving attention, reassurance etc. so ‘excitement and stimuli’ via play etc. it will withdraw into itself and become very quiet - an observer of life rather than living life even in childhood.
Stimuli helps the child to be  ‘involved’ to be present to develop a healthy ‘leo’ reality wanting to be active, doing things and be the ‘centre’ of his/her little world - which is vital yet far not all children receive this foundation to be able to live life as ‘their own’. All children should have the cancer (emotional nurturing) and leo (active participation and attention) to become a healthy adult. I don’t now if you know about it but about three quarters of the children on our planet still today do not receive anything like that. Well that’s an objective (aq.) reality picture including the whole population of our world...

Anyhow, aquarius is fundamentally objective while leo is fundamentally subjective. Leo is fundamentally self centred aq. is fundamentally impersonal, and so on. None of them is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ it is simply the same thing from opposite ends. Again the issue is about BALANCE. Too much of anything becomes unhealthy at one point and swings us out of balance. No matter which end of any polarity we swung out, the balance can only be restored by its polarity. Regarding this axis: observing and staying objective is not enough for life, so isn’t if we always stay in our own subjective circle. Which one is wrong? None of them or both if it is too much. What ‘needed’ is relative to what has been developed in the current ‘chapters’ and what needs to be embraced.  

I thought it may be useful to start with a fundamental comparison to its pair leo, to see what this axis represents as a whole. It is a FIXED axis part of the fixed square with taurus and scorpio. Leo is fire ~ desire in its most stable=fixed=manifested form, it’s our life force emanating from the mystery of creation channelling us into the creative force via which we experience the miracle to be ALIVE. It is fundamentally ‘singular’. (I am alive, my life force, my subjective reality etc. So it is all to do with ‘me’ in a very special and active way from within ‘me‘)  Aquarius on the other hand is fixed but air - mental in nature. It is the most stable=fixed=manifested form of the ‘mental virtue’. It is  plural its not ‘about me’ it is ‘about all of us together’. In which ‘me’ is not centre but the opposite not even important it can be forgotten in the mental process. We are the ‘observer’ not the centre ‘player’.

Putting it in a different way aquarius is the reality looking at it ‘outside of ourselves’ leo is looking at from the ’inside’ and relative to ’ourselves’. Leo is centre stage, aq. is looking at it from the ’margin’ so to speak.  The only way we can actually gain objectivity about ourselves is via aquarius. And yet the only way we can actually live life is via leo. So again the same essential thing from its different ’ends’. None if it is the ’whole picture’ by itself, both needs to be embraced and balanced by one another.

It’s a bit like if we imagine a vital, energetic, full of life ‘child’ sitting on one end of the polarity wanting to ‘do’ to ‘create’ and ‘enjoy’ life from its own viewpoint - and an infinitely old yet ageless, aloof, observer sitting on the other end, gazing at and through the child towards the far horizon.....yet both is the same ‘person’. Both is ‘us’ the soul. None of ‘them’ is more real than the other simply it is a different ‘perspective’. In the middle they meet and become one....the joy of one’s own life and active participation with self confidence in the 'role' what we are 'playing' is just as important as being able to perceive the objective reality of all of life 'all other players' as equal.  This where 'community mindedness' comes in the picture balancing the subjective perception of the 'self-involved' perspective. 

Aquarius correlates to trauma for two reasons: one is coming out of the nature of the clash between subjectivity and objectivity. When we become too subjective the objective reality can indeed shock us for we were not aware of it. This would be the natural way for aq. to manifest.....However there is another factor that made aquarius extremely traumatic during the last several thousand years of the patriarchy. In a very short way: when our society became fundamentally abusive and oppressive based on beliefs that mislead us all the major ‘enemy’ to this new ‘establishment’ became objectivity itself. It had been ‘beaten’ out of us literally. It’s a long story but objectivity simply and naturally leads to equality and accepting differences - but of course THAT is what was least allowed in patriarchy.

The actual historical correlation to aq. within patriarchy is far more traumatic than most of us may think: it correlates to the nameless and faceless people who were cast out of society i.e. they were not even ‘visible‘ for the other layers of the social strata. It correlates to the ‘untouchables‘ in India, the slaves in other cultures or for a more recent example the masses of people in the concentration camp in nazi germany and so on and on...it correlates to every people who 've been 'cast out' for whatever reason.......anything but ’stimulating and exciting’ at least not for those who were subjected to it....
 Yet again it isn’t because of aquarius itself but because of the actual reality of the patriarchy - the objective reality unseen by most others - even later it was difficult to comprehend for humanity that all these things were/are objective facts....it just that THIS IS what has become humanity’s objective reality and this is what happened to the ‘community’ of this earth.

Aq. also correlates to the astral plane, to the ‘bardo’ after death and the in-between before incarnation. It correlates to the ‘overall’ soul knowledge of all the life times and to the particular ‘astral plan’ for the life which includes the last ‘after life view’ and the consequent new life-plan. It correlates to the ‘bridge’ between causal and the physical planes. So aq. and leo are inherently connected, the life force manifest through leo and the plan for the life originates from aq. None of them is more or less important than the other. Again the archetypal axis is one and the same thing with two 'arms' or possible extremes which are connected right at the ‘middle’. The six primary chakras correspond to the six archetypal pairs.

Hope this is useful?
« Last Edit: Feb 18, 2011, 06:18 AM by Lia » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #33 on: Feb 18, 2011, 09:10 AM »

Hi Lia

I'm glad to hear from you,and that you've joined us this thread. Thank you for commenting on this birthchart, too. I currently am out of town for a short vacation with my family. Also, having some troubles in connecting to internet. In a couple or days more I will be back in Santiago and will be able to reply to your posts.

God Bless,

Gonzalo

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Linda
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« Reply #34 on: Feb 18, 2011, 01:51 PM »

Please feel free to continue discussing the Aquarius archetype on this thread.


Thank you to Gonzalo, Lia and everyone who participated.


Subsequent archetype threads will be:


PISCES hosted by Stacie, coming very soon.

ARIES - Ari

TAURUS - Lucius

GEMINI - Lia

CANCER -

LEO -
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Henrik
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« Reply #35 on: Feb 22, 2011, 11:48 AM »

Hi Gonzalo and everybody else contributing to this wonderful thread.

I'm Henrik and I have started to practise in the practice chart thread which is exciting and helpful in my own understanding of EA. Our current configuration is Pluto in the 8th with Sn in the 11th. Thus what you guys are doing in this thread is a blessing indeed as it exemplifies and expands on my understanding of the Aquarian archetype.

I haven't read all the postings yet in this thread, but I just wanted to express my gratitude to Gonzalo for the brilliant intro and especially the evolution into a "group of one". Also, Lia, your explanation of the archetypal axises and the dynamic of those resonated strongly within. When I was in my teens I had this image that each human's characteristics could be visualized by an equaliser (the stereo equipment that lets us find a setting/balance of the different bandwith frequencies such that the music sounds better depending on the setting/room accoustics). I also remembered when reading your post about a passage I read in a Barbara Hand Clow book many years ago about inventions being a way to realize (by projecting it outwards) our inner dynamics/potentials. So, as I read your post I remembered the equaliser analogy and thought of it as a 6 band equaliser where each band corresponds to each archtypal axis (from Aries/Libra to Virgo/Pisces). Of course the zodiac wheel is superior to my idea, but never the less I thought I share it anyhow.

Thank you all for this message board as it has truly enriched my life as well as my understanding of EA.

/Henrik
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Lia
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« Reply #36 on: Feb 25, 2011, 08:35 PM »

Hi again,  

Thanks Linda and Henrik for your comments. Gonzalo, thanks for the additional data on this woman's actual reality - it sure expands on the whole picture. There is nothing I disagree with in what you wrote.
 
Rather I’d like to validate astrologically on what you wrote: "her capacity to listen to others is quite evolved and that she indeed has ways of giving to others that are quite special, unique, and emotionally nurturing" That is clearly the emphasised libra capacity that the soul has already developed. (With the number of planets in libra this will be true in any consciousness level but of course relative to the given evolutionary state, however within that the soul will be able to listen and to give what others need - even if they don’t say overtly what they want or need.

Adjusting to them and their reality will be part of the underlying dynamics - even when the soul is surrounded by ‘bullies’ the attempt may still be to trying to change them via giving....create 'harmony ' and security via gvivng them more space, understanding love etc. etc. .....still in the  hope that it may work...... It is only when it doesn’t work anymore and the person will be forced to the ‘corner’ so to speak, no more space to give, no more adjustment, listening or understanding is possible it was all taken with nothing in return the person's needs are ignored or even violated - like it was the case with this woman especially in childhood - a turning point may come when the soul is eventually forced to get in touch with their frustration and anger - as well individual needs and WILL. Versus allowing other people’s will to take over space .....trying to tolerate and understand them and still hope for some ‘reciprocate’. It’s like libra/7th house people unconsciously need 'bullies' to bring the experience of realisation that there is a limit to this appreach.....it often takes experiences of neglect, being bullied, crashed etc. in order to get in touch with their own individual reality, including anger, frustration, will, needs etc.....which has been suppressed by way of focusing on others.

Anyhow, this is more of libra/7th house archetype. The woman has the two archetype conjoined having the libra stellium in the 11th: obviously the traumas related to this emphasised libra capacity which helps the person to help and understand others yet it went out of balance and the future direction is to realise/access and be able to assert her own needs and her own individuality.

Yes I understand what you say about the possible ‘fruition’ signature by having a planet on the s.node, yes indeed it may be......however it also relates to the period of the ‘first round backward’ so to speak, relative to the fact that the resolution node is the s.node. What it also means next to possible fruition is the fact that there are dynamics, mode of operational patterns that the soul hasn’t ‘exhausted’ yet.

A life time of revisiting the old way of ‘operating’ may give the experience that helps the soul to ‘get it’, i.e. what and why needs to be changed in order to really move forward. Evolution is relative to our own consciousness; as long as we ‘work’ in a certain way and inwardly believe it to be right for us, or simply not able to take on a different approach we can not make the evolutionary ‘leap’ towards the new direction. It is not because it is wrong or right, it is about where the soul is relative to itself. In order for the soul to ‘get’ something really deeply within its own consciousness it needed to repeat the s.node patterns despite the fact that the n.node is the future direction.

I.e. if I believe within my own consciousness that my way of relating to other people is fundamentally ‘right’ I won’t be able to change that pattern. It takes an inner realisation that there is something more to it, based on experiences etc. that will shed light on the LIMITATION of the approach....that indeed there are situatins when no 'pacifist' approach can work.....but as long as the soul believes it can it will try again perheps even more intensely....It takes inner realisation to change that approach, and usually experiences of stagnation is what gives  the soul the inner ‘push’ to be ‘willing’ to change....the experiences relative to pluto and venus pointing back to the s.node and saturn which - in my view - will lead to the exhaustion of the very desires that resulted in the dynamics symbolised by the s.node and natal pluto. Those are apparently strong enough to create a life ‘blueprint’ with this pointing back pattern. Pluto is creating very intense experiences as always - and it seems like the soul is yet to fully engage with her own individual needs, wounds, heartfelt desires etc.

One of the aspects about 11th house/aq.archetype is the tendency to stay 'in the head' i.e. to detach from those deep self -involved most personal issues.....keeping a bit (or at times a LOT) of distance from our own most sensitive most ‘self-involved’ heart issues can indeed give us an 'objective overview' however the truth is that it is also a way (and with pluto a HABIT) of avoiding to face the issue from really within: i.e. how we are really affected on the most subjective personal level.

Being really in touch with our own inner issues from the inside, relative to our own desires relative to our own human life from the very 'heart of the matter' -- well that is the opposite to aq. In other words it will be easy for an aq. oriented person to detach and see a more detached, objective, rather impersonal  pic. But our most personal issues DO affect us personally....that's an inconvenient fact that aq. oriented people tend/ like to detach' or even alienate from:-)

So what tend to happen is that the personally affecting traumas will grow in intensity and severity in order to force the person to get in touch with their ' inside'....and stop the old habit of looking at it only form the ‘outside’. Funny thing is, trauma can also be very relative; i.e. what would be already shocking and traumatic for a person with a strong leo archetype may look ‘no big deal’ for a person with strong aq. signature.  For them it takes a greater level of trauma to be shaken enough and be thrown in to their own feelings and emotions. This intends to help them stop the ‘detachment‘ and the 'intellectualisation' and 'objectification' - which they maybe be very good at but doesn't help 'the heart of the issue'.....yet, they automatically trying to look at their own life from an ‘objective’ point of view kind of ‘outside‘ of themselves..... Many aq. oriented people are very good at listening/counselling etc. others, pointing out the objective picture as what’s happening etc. - but they are NOT so good to do the same to themSELVES:-) That’s the real point that‘s what missing...

And no amount of repeating the old pattern i.e. security maintained via being service to others via investing emotionally in some kind of ‘shared’ reality, giving according to the needs of others, giving objective feedback etc. can replace the need to ‘get in touch’ with oneself from the ‘inside’.....I.e. the old pattern can be as much fruition as it may be, it can NOT bring that which is missing from their own innermost side......in this case symbolised by ppp. and  n.node both points within......

Again, what I think is important in here -as well as with all archetypes-  is to see both, the strengths and the weaknesses of the same 'thing' ...for all of them are both a 'gift' and a 'burden' we learn and grow via internalising them and yet after a while we fall into the 'ditch' of stagnation from the very thing that at first moved us forward...

Well,  that's how I see it.

Blessings,
Lia
« Last Edit: Feb 25, 2011, 09:13 PM by Lia » Logged
Gonzalo
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« Reply #37 on: Mar 19, 2011, 08:41 AM »

Hi Lia

All of what you wrote in your latest post is very accurate in relation to the 'observed reality' of this Soul. Thank you so much.

God Bless,

Gonzalo


Hi Linda

Since I am concentrating in understanding the Mercury archetype, perhaps I could be of help preparing for the Gemini archetype thread. Just let me know in the case you want me to.

God Bless,

Gonzalo
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Gonzalo
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« Reply #38 on: Apr 27, 2012, 12:57 PM »

Hi all ...
This post is just to let know I've deleted my prior post with the example chart. If needed, I can post some other chart example.
God Bless,
Gonzalo

PS. Been missing to actively participate in the mb with all of you ... hope to come back soon ...
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