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Author Topic: GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS  (Read 25162 times)
Bradley J
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« Reply #135 on: Apr 30, 2011, 12:29 AM »

Hi Rad and All,

Thanks for sharing and creating this learning.  Wow! 
I think I am getting it.

I do have 2 questions:

So, it appears obvious that if someone has no planets in Virgo, they are not drawing upon any lifetimes in the last millineum relative to the current life purpose. (however the 'Virgo zone' is totally different thing)
Almost positive that the answer is Yes.

So, this is a real trip because it really blows the linear time concepts even farther out of the water.

In my reading with you, Rad, I recall a mention of a lifetime during the Black Plague(late 1300's).  This does not come up with this system. 
Is this because lifetimes can have great impacts on our souls and can be helpful to be made aware of, however do not actually correlate to the current life's evolutionary intentions?

Thanks

Goddess Bless,
Bradley
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Rad
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« Reply #136 on: Apr 30, 2011, 09:35 AM »

Hi Bradley,

"I do have 2 questions: So, it appears obvious that if someone has no planets in Virgo, they are not drawing upon any lifetimes in the last millineum relative to the current life purpose. (however the 'Virgo zone' is totally different thing) Almost positive that the answer is Yes."

***************************************

No, because a person may also have planets in the 6th House. They could have various Nodes in that House and/ or sign as well.

**********************************

So, this is a real trip because it really blows the linear time concepts even farther out of the water.

In my reading with you, Rad, I recall a mention of a lifetime during the Black Plague(late 1300's).  This does not come up with this system. Is this because lifetimes can have great impacts on our souls and can be helpful to be made aware of, however do not actually correlate to the current life's evolutionary intentions?

******************************************

This system is not meant to be exhaustive or reflective of all our previous lives Bradley. Like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread this system was something that JWG had worked on for over 30 years that he never felt that he 'perfected'. That there were some loose ends, so to speak. This is why he never published a book on it even though he contemplated such a book for a long time. I no longer have your chart in my computer as that computer finally broke down and I lost all of my data so can not comment further on your question. I would need you bdata again in order to do so.

*****************************************

God Bless, Rad

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Bradley J
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« Reply #137 on: Apr 30, 2011, 01:18 PM »

Rad,

Thank You.

I've gone back through and am still confused. Cry 

In Ari Moshe's example of his Venus cosmogram, the period of the lifetimes that connect to Venus are all within the Libra sub age within the Aries age.(because Venus forms a cosmogram and is natally in the sign of Libra.

Is it true that becuase Venus is also in the second house, there may be connection to lifetimes in the Taurus age?
Is the answer dependent on if other planets are in the sign of Taurus which form cosmograms?

I do understand how, in Ari Moshe's example, the geographic zones which the Venus cosmogram apply to include all the cardinal zones plus the taurus zone.

If you want to look at my chart again, that would be very kind, though not expected.
January 23rd, 1977   9:08 am  Milwaukee, WI

Thanks,

Goddess Bless,
Bradley
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Rad
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« Reply #138 on: Apr 30, 2011, 02:50 PM »

Hi Bradley,

"I've gone back through and am still confused. :In Ari Moshe's example of his Venus cosmogram, the period of the lifetimes that connect to Venus are all within the Libra sub age within the Aries age.(because Venus forms a cosmogram and is natally in the sign of Libra. Is it true that becuase Venus is also in the second house, there may be connection to lifetimes in the Taurus age? "

**********************

Yes

*************************

Is the answer dependent on if other planets are in the sign of Taurus which form cosmograms?

***************************

No

******************************

"I do understand how, in Ari Moshe's example, the geographic zones which the Venus cosmogram apply to include all the cardinal zones plus the taurus zone. If you want to look at my chart again, that would be very kind, though not expected. January 23rd, 1977   9:08 am  Milwaukee, WI"

****************************************

As you can see Bradley from your natal chart you have many planets that correlate to the zone in which the plague took place: the natural Aries Zone which of course includes Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. These are the symbols for the life about the plague. With your Moon/Venus in Pisces in natural Aries House these are symbols for the Pisces Age that lead to the Virgo Sub-Age. Your Pallas inconjuncts these two and is in the 6th House: the bridge to moving into the Virgo Sub-Age that is linked with this plague and the Christians blaming themselves for this disease that then lead into the Christian flagellation delusion/ form or repentance. 

****************************************

God Bless, Rad
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Bradley J
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« Reply #139 on: May 01, 2011, 09:47 AM »

(this comes from other thread but belongs here)

Quote
Second, the use of the geodetic astrological zones is used in conjunction with the cosmograms. Not just the cosmograms, or just the geodetic zones, but both. What has been presented on this message board about these methods is just the bare bones of them. In the case of chart 2 we can clearly see the direct correlation through the geodetic zones to the lives in that zone. It does not mean that because there is no actual cosmogram linked with the Ages and their sub-ages that that Soul did not have lives at that time in those zones. The actual cosmograms that can result from any birth chart linked with specific times and their respective astrological zones correlates to specific archetypes within the consciousness of the Soul that has been brought forwards into a current life for their own evolutionary needs and reasons.

If there are no cosmograms linked with the geodetic zones of a past life, could the Soul have memories of these past lives not reflected in the cosmograms/geodetic zones?

***********************************

Yes...............

**************************************


I am not sure if I am understanding well how the archetypes of the birhchart reflect the astrological ages/sub-ages of prior lifetimes. As an example to clarify my question: my  birthchart has a stellium of planets in 2nd House, in Virgo. I have memories of prior lifetimes in the Taurus zone. One of these lifetimes occurred at the beginning of the Pisces age, Pisces sub-age. Though, I have no planets, or planetary south nodes, in Pisces. Is that because:

a) The beginning of the Pisces age, Pisces sub-age, is reflected in the Virgo planets (just as Virgo geodetic zones include the mutable cross within)? or

*************************************

Yes .......................

Oh, now I see where you addressed this principle/concept
************************************

b) A consequence of the Neptune being square the Moon's Nodes is that the North Node in Pisces operates as a de facto South Node, this North Node in Pisces reflecting a past lifetime at the beginning of the Pisces age-Pisces sub-age? or

***************************************

Yes, because that N.Node has already been in operation prior to the current life..the Neptune square to it.

***********************************************

c) Just because the Soul can remember prior lives which are not reflected in the birthchart through geodetic/cosmograms?

*************************************************

Yes, but one must be careful in terms of what any given Soul thinks it can remember. Unless any given Soul has the actual capacity to see into prior lives, for itself and others, then very often such 'memories' get blurred and mixed up with other memories resident within the Soul itself.

*************************************************



God Bless, Rad
Thanks Gonzalo and Rad
I know this is not a linear thing.  This piece seems crucial to intuit the overall story.
Basically, as I understand this now, the planet which forms a cosmogram by its sign connects to it's age or sub age - yet, based on the whole understanding of the chart/story, the branches may also refer to the sub -ages with in the other umbrella age/sub age.

What I mean, is, in this post Gonzalo brought in, Virgo planets refer back to the first half of the Pisces Age and in my example, Venus/moon in Pisces connect with the second half of the Pisces Age(the Virgo sub age).
Is this right?

So, it seems the stumbling block would be to limit/freeze the cosmograms without intuiting the overall story.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

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Bradley J
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« Reply #140 on: May 01, 2011, 09:56 AM »

Hi Rad,

So, to check my understanding:

I re-did my Venus cosmogram and used chiron and the asteroids

I came up with(just includes planets):

                    Venus(pisces)
                       l
Mars-------------------------Pallas
Pluto-------------------------Pallas
snVenus----------------------Pallas
Vesta--------------------------Pallas
Chiron------------------------Saturn
snMoon------------------------Uranus

Is this right?

My understanding is that we could apply the branch's sub ages to the both the sub ages within Pisces Age and Virgo Sub-Age.  
So, when we first approach this, we keep 'open' intuitively until we sit with understanding of the whole story of the chart and the cosmograms and geographic zones.

Reprogramming.....

thanks for you time,

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 12:46 PM by Bradley J » Logged

Bradley J
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« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2011, 10:14 AM »

Hi All,
This is my third post here this morning(questions/confirmations for Rad above two)

I appreciated Ari Moshe's sharing the function on solar fire.  Gosh, more and more I consider getting Solar fire for Mac; especially seeing astro.com does not include south nodes - not even sn of moon natally.

Well, in response to 'quicker'/'easier' ways to create cosmograms for those without software:

If you are still using astro.com, under extended chart selection, I did natal chart, included aestroids desired and under "Chart Drawing Style"  I selected  "Ebertin Style(with midpoints)"

Then, I printed this at 90% - this is the 90 degree dial. 
Next, I had the cosmo dial saved in a pages/word file and enlarged the size(could be done on photocopier) to fit just inside the 90 degree dial.

So, now I could begin constructing cosmograms in a minute. 
Also, I found helpful to locate the exact center of the cosmo dial and encircled using a compass to make the exact cut desired.
Now that I have my 'perfect cosmo-dial', I'll laminate this and carry it around everywhere I go(just kidding...maybe)

Hope that helps someone.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley

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Taf
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« Reply #142 on: May 03, 2011, 05:20 PM »

The next step in our example cosmogram is to place the signs on it. So since Mars in Aries is at the top of our cosmogram we mark that as Aries at the top. Then referring the the Ages and their sub-ages we go the Aries age and note the 90 year segment in time for that Mars. Then we look for the Libra 90 year segment within that Age because Jupiter is in Libra at part of the cosmogram. Then we note the 90 year segment for Gemini because Venus is in Gemini as part of that cosmogram. And then Capricorn because Saturn is in Capricorn as part of the cosmogram.

"I've gone back through and am still confused. In Ari Moshe's example of his Venus cosmogram, the period of the lifetimes that connect to Venus are all within the Libra sub age within the Aries age.(because Venus forms a cosmogram and is natally in the sign of Libra. Is it true that becuase Venus is also in the second house, there may be connection to lifetimes in the Taurus age? "

**********************

Yes

*************************

(this comes from other thread but belongs here)

Thanks Gonzalo and Rad
I know this is not a linear thing.  This piece seems crucial to intuit the overall story.
Basically, as I understand this now, the planet which forms a cosmogram by its sign connects to it's age or sub age - yet, based on the whole understanding of the chart/story, the branches may also refer to the sub -ages with in the other umbrella age/sub age.

What I mean, is, in this post Gonzalo brought in, Virgo planets refer back to the first half of the Pisces Age and in my example, Venus/moon in Pisces connect with the second half of the Pisces Age(the Virgo sub age).
Is this right?

So, it seems the stumbling block would be to limit/freeze the cosmograms without intuiting the overall story.

Goddess Bless,
Bradley


Hi Rad,

So does this mean that if we have a Mars in Aries cosmogram, where Mars is in the natal 2nd House, the top of our cosmogram should actually look like this:

     Mars (Aries Age: 2,260 - 2,170BC / Libra Sub-Age: 640 - 550BC / Taurus Age: 3,430 - 3,340BC / Scorpio Sub-Age: 2,890 - 2,800BC)


where all four time periods are possibilities of locating the prior lifetime relative to Mars:  The Aries Age possibility because of the sign that Mars is in.  The Libra Sub-Age possibility is because of the natural opposition to the Aries Age.  The Taurus Age possibility is because of the second House natal placement of Mars.  The Scorpio Sub-Age possibility is because of the natural opposition to the Taurus Age?

And would the 90-yr segments still be located by the sign Aries (because of the sign Mars is in), whether we are searching the Aries Age, Libra Sub-Age, Taurus Age, or Scorpio Sub-Age?

Further:

Would all the other planets connected to the Mars cosmogram...our original example had Venus in Gemini, Jupiter in Libra, Saturn in Aquarius...also correlate not only to the Aries Age, but to the Libra Sub-Age, and their respective natal House Ages and Sub-Ages?  For instance, Venus in Gemini can correlate to the Aries Age/Gemini 90-yr segment, Libra Sub-Age/Gemini 90-yr segment, Cancer Age (assuming it is in the natal 4th House)/Gemini 90-yr segment, and the Capricorn Sub-Age/Gemini 90-yr segment?

Blessings,
taf
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 08:03 PM by Taf » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2011, 08:23 AM »

Hi taf,

No, it doesn't mean this at all, and is the wrong way to understand the cosmograms. All the principles that have been presented in this thread correlate to the paradigm of the cosmograms themselves. And, as I have said, they are not meant to symbolized the totality of all possible prior lives of any given Soul. There are other ways to see and understand prior lifetimes in the birth chart independent of cosmograms. This is why I also presented the astrological geodetic zones with the natural crosses within them that can have planets within them that are not part of any given birth charts cosmograms. So a person could have Mars in the 2nd House, for example, and that Mars in not part of any cosmogram yet it would refer to the Taurus geodetic zone as places on Earth the the Soul has had lives before.

I understand your confusion now as I had missed this last post by Bradley: "I know this is not a linear thing.  This piece seems crucial to intuit the overall story. Basically, as I understand this now, the planet which forms a cosmogram by its sign connects to it's age or sub age - yet, based on the whole understanding of the chart/story, the branches may also refer to the sub -ages with in the other umbrella age/sub age. What I mean, is, in this post Gonzalo brought in, Virgo planets refer back to the first half of the Pisces Age and in my example, Venus/moon in Pisces connect with the second half of the Pisces Age(the Virgo sub age). Is this right? "

No, this not right. Bradley sent me his birth data because of a lifetime I had mentioned to him that took place during the Great Plague in the mid 1300's. And when he did his cosmograms he could not see this time indicated. First, as I have said before, and now again, the cosmograms do not reflect the totality of all prior lifetimes, or is it the only paradigm that can be used to see and understand the prior lifetimes of any given Soul. So despite the fact that Bradley could not come up with a cosmogram for that time/ life/place the fact is that in his birth chart he had all kinds of planets that correlated to the Aries geodetic zone. Among them were his Pisces Moon/Jupiter conjunction in his natural Aries house that are inconjunct his Pallas in his 6th House. So you can see in this the astrological geodetic zone now combined with the Pisces Age where the tie in to the Virgo Sub-Age is symbolized by the inconjunct by his Pallas in the 6th House .... i.e. natural Virgo House ... back to his Moon and Jupiter.

This example demonstrates, taf, that there are other ways to understand and see the prior lifetimes of any given Soul independent of the cosmograms themselves. Birth charts have all kinds of dimensions within them that can be seen when various 'lenses' are used to do so.

God Bless, Rad

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Linda
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« Reply #144 on: May 29, 2011, 04:56 PM »

Hi Rad,

Just wondering if it is possible that a Cosmogram can be drawn up for a Composite Chart?  I ask this in regards to the Composite of John and Yoko which we are working on at the moment.  It would be very revealing to see where and when they have been together in the past.  Is this possible?

Thanks.
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Rad
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« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2011, 06:22 AM »

Hi Linda,

 Wolf never talked about or taught this at all. It certainly seems to me that this is possible is the composite chart is used. Yet this would also seem limited in the sense that the composite chart would not represent or symbolize all the possible prior life connections/ places between two people only because there are other ways to correlate the prior life locations/ and times of any given Soul.

 God Bless, Rad
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Linda
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« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2011, 03:45 PM »

Thanks Rad.
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Rad
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« Reply #147 on: May 31, 2011, 08:12 AM »

Hi Jason,

Yes................

God Bless, Rad
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jasonholley
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« Reply #148 on: May 31, 2011, 09:15 AM »

Hi Rad,

THANK YOU so much for your willingness and time to look at these.

These are three past life memories carried by the same person whose chart I posted on the skipped steps thread.  They were realized by him in this lifetime a few years ago.  I am attaching the chart for reference.  I have included a short synopsis of each memory as described by him.  I also asked what he thought the key imprint left on his Soul was, and that is here plus the cosmogram I found and my reasoning about it.

The correlations appear strong to me, but I wanted to get your feedback and any confirmation or corrections.  My question is: am I using these correctly (I mean the cosmograms) and is my EA reasoning sound?  

Memory A

Memory: West Coast Native American healer.  He argues with an arrogant and self-righteous younger Native American man, about how to deal with the new presence of Europeans; argument becomes heated and the younger man shoots him in the throat with a gun obtained from Europeans.

What Soul “Learned”:  Have to express myself the right way and be very careful.  

Cosmogram: Given that this is relatively recent, I looked at the cosmogram of his only Virgo planet, Mercury.  I found this cosmogram:

      Mercury
                (Vir/5th)
                |      
Chiron ---------------------------------Saturn   
(Tau/ 2nd)          (Lib/6th)


The Chiron lifetime represented in this cosmogram would have taken place in the range 1700-1790 (Taurus subperiod of Virgo Sub-Age), and one of the possible geodetic zones is the west coast of the United States (fixed cross).  Indeed, at this time initial explorations by Europeans of the Pacific Northwest were underway from the sea and the Northwest tribes had encountered Europeans by then.  The Chiron archetype is congruent with his having been a healer.  The other two dominant forces in this memory are also well-represented in the cosmogram: a clever (got hold of a gun), arrogant, self-righteous youth/”brother” (Mercury, Virgo, 5th house, square Neptune in 9th); and an oppressive power coming in the name of peace but really all about extremes, power, and its Judeo-Christian standards (Saturn, Libra, 6th house, conjunct Pluto) – to which the healer was “opposed” as represented in the cosmogram.  Chiron in Taurus in the 2nd is opposite Uranus in the 8th in Sagittarius, supporting a sudden, violent, unusual (guns were new to these people – Uranus) death, from someone who thinks they know the “Truth” impulsively shooting from the hip (Sagittarius).  The location of the wound is the throat (Chiron in Taurus), which also corresponds to the 5th chakra ruled by Mercury, which is the lead planet in the cosmogram that “carries” this lifetime.  And what was “learned” is clearly also carried by his Mercury in this lifetime: “I have to express myself the right way and be very careful” (Virgo, 5th house).    

Memory B
 
Memory: Priestess in some kind of temple.  Time period unknown, but she is unusually empowered for a woman in patriarchal time.  Close to a just ruler/leader, she gets a clear intuition that he will be killed, tries to tell him, he doesn’t listen to her, and one of his own military leaders – a “captain of the guard” sort whom she knew would be the one – kills him.  Realizing she will no longer be safe, she and her followers immediately travel away.

What Soul Learned:  “My understanding will not be taken seriously so I just need to shut down and take control.”

Cosmogram: I looked at the Neptune lifetimes in the chart’s cosmograms, given the spirituality of the lifetime and also the location of Neptune conjunct to Juno in the natal chart, a possible indication of a woman empowered by her connection to a powerful man.  I found this one:

                  Saturn
                (Lib/6th)
                          |      
Mars -----------------------------------Neptune   
(Sco/7th)          (Sag/9th)

The Neptune lifetime in this time period would have taken place in the range of 1000-910BC (Sagittarius subperiod of Libra Sub-Age), and the possible geodetic zones (coordinated with time range) would have included Olmec/Maya in Central America, Vedic/Aryan in India and Caucasus, and West Africa emerging Iron Empires (when these were suggested as possibilities, Olmec/Maya is most resonant for this person, strong connections in this life with these cultures; Quetzlcoatl is an active guide in this lifetime).  Saturn in Libra in the 6th seems to refer to a just and dutiful leader, and also to a stratified, role-based social structure that he may represent (e.g. caste system if India).  Mars in Scorpio speaks clearly of an underhanded warrior, who kills the leader.  In the natal chart, Neptune is in the 9th in Sagittarius, suggesting a spiritual lifetime dedicated to the Truth; it is also opposite to the asteroid Cassandra in Gemini 3rd, and the two are both in a T-square with Mercury – so trying to communicate about evil is frustrated.  The lifetime message – the futility of spiritual authority, leading to the need to shut down and take control – corresponds strongly to Saturn, the “carrier” of this lifetime.  Saturn is also the SN ruler in this chart, as well as one of the causative factors of the chart’s skipped steps – we can see how this lifetime would begin to encourage this person to begin to want to have a male body again and to want to follow the chart’s non-resolution node, the SN in Capricorn 9th conjunct Resolution Lilith – somehow wanting to resolve this wound with patriarchy by taking back power.

Memory C

Memory: In Egypt, a child who is taken away or given by his parents to a dark religious order because of their belief that he has psychic gifts.  

What “Soul Learned”: Psychic capacities are dangerous and will expose me to harmful predation; they must be suppressed.

Cosmogram:  I looked for cosmograms involving the Moon (since this was a child) and found this one:

                             Pallas
                (Lib/6th)
                               |      
Moon ------------------------------------Pluto    
(Lib/6th)                              (Lib/6th)

The Moon lifetime in this cosmogram would have taken place in the range of 1180 to 1090 BC (Libra subperiod of Libra Sub-Age) and Egypt is a potential location (cardinal zones and Virgo zone eligible).  This would be around the time of the split of Upper and Lower Egypt, a general period of decline and a lot of change.  Pluto/Moon relates to the themes of abduction of a child by relatively dark and powerful authorities (Pluto also conjunct Saturn and Lucifer in natal chart), and Pallas brings in psychic capacities.  The experience is “carried” forward to the present lifetime through Pallas as it occurs in the Pallas cosmogram – Pallas being in the 6th house in Libra conjunct Saturn, shutting down to be more appropriate, and is also conjunct Pluto.  In this current lifetime (now), this person has had a fear of psychic opening because of the potential of the personality (Moon) to be highjacked (“abducted”) by astral and other darker forces (Pluto).  As I see it, the cosmogram also strongly suggests other lifetimes around the same time in Egypt in which this Soul played the other roles including the Pluto role.      
      
Rad, I feel so much gratitude and excitement for this method.  I really feel it is furthering my work.  God bless you and JWG for all you have done for us and share with us here.  

God bless,
Jason
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2014, 07:48 AM by jasonholley » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #149 on: May 31, 2011, 09:36 AM »

Hi Jason,

It is very wonderful that you are focusing on the cosmograms in the ways that you are, and applying them to your work in EA in the way that you are. It was always the intention by Wolf that someone, or others, would take his work on these cosmograms and geodetic equivalents and do the type of research and work on them in the way that you are doing. His greatest desire was to plant the seeds of EA in the ways that he did over his lengthy work life so that others would continue to take these seeds and expand on them in their own ways in such a way that when his physical form was no longer present that these seeds of EA would then continue to expand, and blow into the winds of the future. 

And, yes, all that you have shared and presented in the cosmograms relative to your partner's memories are correct, and correlate exactly in the ways that you have realized. The reasons is correct and very, very sound.

God Bless, Rad
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