GEODETIC EQUIVALENTS

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

I am finally able to go through this thread and am finding that I have some things I'm not quite understanding even after having read the answers to what others have asked.  I am wondering if it would be possible to ask those questions as they come up....

Thank you,
Ellen

[Rad]

Hi Ellen,

You can ask the questions you may have. On the other hand everything has already been explained already in this thread.

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

Thanks, Rad.  I'll keep going and see if my questions get cleared up.  Mostly just wanting to confirm that I've understood correctly.  I seem not to be picking up on it the way that the others who participated seemed to so I am questioning my understanding.  Also, I'm not really experiencing any great insight about my own chart/past lives/etc with the information that's come from this method, so again, questioning my understanding...

Thank you a million for teaching it, though...

Love,
Ellen

[jasonholley]

For future students/readers of this thread, I am cross-posting this from the "famous people" thread, an analysis confirmed by Rad of a couple of the geodetic cosmograms in the chart of Mother Theresa.  The chart data for reference is August 26, 1910, 2:25pm, Skopje, Macedonia.

----------------

Hi Rad and group,

So, for the two lifetimes Rad specifically delineated:

Mother Superior Lifetime

Description by Rad: “Mother Teresa was in the role of a Mother Superior within the confines of a convent. In that life and role she was extremely authoritarian, judgmental, and caused real trauma to some of nuns in that life. One of the judgments that she would project on them, repeatedly and in beyond terse terms, in the face whatever issues or problems this or that nun was having was "you don't have enough faith". She would deliver this judgment like a person delivering a hammer blow to the head. A common Soul dilemma among these nuns was one of feeling inwardly empty, alone, reporting their own inner state of darkness. Of course Mother Teresa in that life was dealing with exactly the same inner dilemma that remained as a secret within her even as she would deliver these hammer blows of judgments upon wavering nuns who were looking to her of course to help them deal with it. Words here can't really convey the intensity she manifested in these judgmental hammer blows that did cause real Soul trauma to many of these nuns in her care.” 

Meanings/Themes for the Soul:

Cosmogram: Given that this lifetime took place in the Christian era, I looked at the cosmograms of Mother Teresa’s Virgo and Pisces planets.  Within these cosmograms, I looked for Mars lifetimes, due to its location in the 9th/Virgo indicating spiritual leadership in the Judeo-Christian tradition, as well as correlations to the aggression, criticism, and self-righteousness.  I found this cosmogram:

                             Chiron
                         (2nd/Pisces)
                                 |
Moon (5th/Taurus) --------- Mars (9th/Virgo)

The Mars lifetime in this cosmogram would have occurred in either the Virgo or Sagittarius (9th house) period of the Pisces Age; given that Christian monasticism was only in its infancy during the Virgo period (440-530) it seems likelier to have occurred in the Sagittarius period (710-800).  This lifetime would have taken place primarily in the mutable geodetic zones, which includes what is now England, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and parts of western France.  Monastic orders and convents were well-established in all of these areas by this time.  The “Mother Superior” archetype in particular is shown through the conjunction of Mars to the Sun/Juno conjunction in 8th Virgo, representing the “mystical marriage” to Jesus, as well as the phenomenon of uniting the self with Judeo-Christian symbols of power which justify one’s leadership.  The Moon across from Mars in the cosmogram represents well her “children” (5th house), the nuns in the self-enclosure of the convent (Taurus).  The Moon is also conjunct Vesta which is conjunct Saturn, again a signature of nuns as modern vestals whose fire is restricted (Saturn) and contained (Taurus). The Moon is also conjunct Lucifer, adding that the Mother Superior in that lifetime may also have seen “the devil” in the nuns when she projected that their faith was lacking.   Tellingly, the fact of the Moon as the symbol of the nuns also informs that the Soul’s chastising of the nuns was very much a criticism of itself, the Moon representing the ego.  It would be easy to see how in another lifetime, represented by the Moon, these roles were reversed and she could have found herself on the receiving end of this criticism and have really taken it to heart.  Finally, this would all be “carried” by the Chiron in Pisces in this chart (in whose cosmogram it occurs), a huge and pivotal part of this Soul’s history, the skipped step in the chart correlating to feelings in the Soul of being lost and adrift, alone, having a wound related to the experience of direct union with the Divine; which through the inconjunct with Mercury, irritates and provokes the Soul’s central crisis of doubt and aloneness that the Soul was called to act on and create a new form around in the lifetime as Mother Teresa, that Mercury both ruling Pluto and being in a 1st quarter square to it.  Also, the fact that this is the only cosmogram of Chiron suggests a particular potency, as Rad mentioned the major Soul impact and wounding this caused for the Souls involved.     

Inquisition Lifetime

Description by Rad: “In another life that took place she was a very high official as a man within the Vatican who was charged during one of the Inquisitions to stamp out, crush, a 'renegade' movement within Christianity called the Gnostics. This movement was of course all about 'knowing' the inner Christ: gnosis. In that time the Vatican was all about blind authority to itself, and the Pope. Thus, the Gnostics were considered to be complete threats to their and the Pope's authority which was defined by absolute adherence to that authority: and to have 'faith' in that authority because the Pope was supposed to be God's man on earth. The Gnostics were thus hunted down by the Vatican armies and destroyed. This then is another one of the karmic causes that manifested within Mother Teresa as an almost absolute inner darkness.”

Cosmogram: Given the timing of the Inquisition I looked at lifetimes occurring in the early periods of the Virgo Sub-Age.  I found this cosmogram:

                Juno
            (8th/Virgo)
                   |
Mercury ------------ Venus
(9th/Virgo)               (8th/Leo)

The Mercury lifetime in this cosmogram could correlate to either the Virgo or Sagittarius (9th house) periods of the Virgo Sub-Age, and the Sagittarius period (1250-1340) is smack dab in the period of Inquisition.  This lifetime, like the other mentioned above would would correlate geodetically to the mutable zones, including Spain and Portugal, central locations of the Inquisitions.  Mercury in Virgo in the 9th correlates to a Judeo-Christian “religious inquisition” in a very direct way, and like Mars in the earlier cosmogram, Mercury's 1st quarter trine to the NN/Moon/Lucifer conjunction in the 5th shows how the arc of NN lifetimes became “full of itself” manifesting in religious self-certainty and such behaviors.  At the same time, Mercury’s 1st quarter square to Pluto would also suggest that this particular lifetime was when the doubt/darkness issue (intellectual doubt strongly shown by Mercury) reached a full-blown crisis state in the Soul, which she was still dealing with in this lifetime, also showing how doubt and an internal crisis of meaning is what was underneath all the proclamations of certainty during the Inquisition.  Venus across from Mercury in the cosmogram then would represent the Gnostic Christians whom the Soul was against and so threatened by, a group that was connected to the feminine (Venus), was underground and secretive (8th), and which emphasized direct connection and carried a sense of the specialness of each Soul and its potential to connect directly to the Christ through the heart (Leo).  [Again, given the Soul’s dual arcs in lifetimes and its propensity to try out extremes on both sides (Pluto in 7th/Gemini), it is also easy to see how there could have also been a lifetime represented by the Venus in this cosmogram, in which the Soul would have been connected or at least had fated encounters with Gnostics.] 

Juno in the 8th/Virgo, as the lead planet of this cosmogram, carries this lifetime.  Hence the lifetimes described in this cosmogram relate to a process of analysis and self-confrontation that the Soul has through many lifetimes pursued and resisted (8th house embodying the resistance and the transformation) relative to the nature of its commitment (Juno) to Jesus (Virgo/Pisces).  The Sun conjunct Juno showing how central this commitment was to the entire lifetime of Mother Teresa, how staying committed and at the same time directly facing her doubt and aloneness would integrate her entire life purpose leading to the reward she experienced at the end of that process.

God bless,
Jason

[Heidi]

Wow! I finally took a leap last night and went through this thread and feel I have a good grasp on it. Thanks Rad and all participants for taking the time to create such a wonderful learning tool here on the forum.  

I would like to clarify one point which came up many times during the thread, which is the issue of using the natural cross on the geodetic map. In my chart for example, I have no planets in Virgo or the 6th house, (but I do have Chiron in the 6th). Since the Virgo sub-age is the most recent and contains the last millennium, I was most curious about this time.

My slight confusion still, is since I have Neptune/Mars/Venus is Sag/Pisces/Gemini respectively, and all three planets have their own cosmograms, can I look at these cosmograms within the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD (because of the mutable cross with Virgo)?

Or, I'm wondering if the confusion around this issue is due to mixing up the actual geodetic zones on the map, with the ages. So, in my above example the individual Neptune/Mars/Venus cosmograms would correlate to all four mutable zones, but not the mutable ages?

Evidently, I do have Chiron (in the 6th) which has it's own cosmogram. Mars and Venus are contained in this cosmogram which would link these lives to the Virgo sub-age anyhow.. but clarification on the above would really help.  

On a technical note, I'm sure this got figured out but thought I would mention a solar fire shortcut:

- Open up the chart and on the right side will be a column with various options.
- Above the "Redraw" button change the option from "wheel" to "dial"
- Click on the "Pages" button (third from the bottom on right hand side)
- You will then see a list of options, the fourth down is + Cosmobiology
- Click on the + next to Cosmobiology and there are three more options
- Click on the first option: Modulus Tree and Modulus Sort Strip

You then get a real cool graphic with the dial, degree locations and the cosmograms (midpoint trees), all with a 2 degree orb. Can save a lot of time and effort!

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi

[Rad]

Hi Heidi,

My slight confusion still, is since I have Neptune/Mars/Venus is Sag/Pisces/Gemini respectively, and all three planets have their own cosmograms, can I look at these cosmograms within the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD (because of the mutable cross with Virgo)?

************

No.

****************

Or, I'm wondering if the confusion around this issue is due to mixing up the actual geodetic zones on the map, with the ages. So, in my above example the individual Neptune/Mars/Venus cosmograms would correlate to all four mutable zones, but not the mutable ages?

*******************

That's right.

**********

God Bless, Rad

[Heidi]

Thanks Rad.

So I understand that when correlating the ages to a cosmogram, we always use the sign that the actual planet is in. Looking at my cosmogram in which my Chiron in Aries/6th has the lead, then this would only correlate to the Aries age. Therefore, since I have no planets in Virgo, I cannot correlate any of my past lives though the geodetic/comsmogram system to the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD.

I notice you addressed this in the below quote to Bradley:

As you can see Bradley from your natal chart you have many planets that correlate to the zone in which the plague took place: the natural Aries Zone which of course includes Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. These are the symbols for the life about the plague. With your Moon/Venus in Pisces in natural Aries House these are symbols for the Pisces Age that lead to the Virgo Sub-Age. Your Pallas inconjuncts these two and is in the 6th House: the bridge to moving into the Virgo Sub-Age that is linked with this plague and the Christians blaming themselves for this disease that then lead into the Christian flagellation delusion/ form or repentance.

 

Again, if I'm understanding correctly, I will be able to link past lives to the Virgo sub-age through my 6th house Chiron, and the planets it is aspecting (though of course not using the cosmogram paradigm). So in reference to the above quote, am I correct in understanding that the totality of the Pisces age contains the Virgo sub-age (when using the other system of determining past lives); and any planets in Pisces/12th house will link to these past lives that include the Virgo sub-age?

And one last thought to clear up a loose end; if the answer to the above is yes, would looking at Neptune correlate to the Pisces age, and Mars to the Aries age, etc?

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi

[Rad]

Hi Heidi,

Thanks Rad.

So I understand that when correlating the ages to a cosmogram, we always use the sign that the actual planet is in. Looking at my cosmogram in which my Chiron in Aries/6th has the lead, then this would only correlate to the Aries age. Therefore, since I have no planets in Virgo, I cannot correlate any of my past lives though the geodetic/comsmogram system to the Virgo sub-age of 980-2060 AD.

***********

That's right.

************

I notice you addressed this in the below quote to Bradley:

As you can see Bradley from your natal chart you have many planets that correlate to the zone in which the plague took place: the natural Aries Zone which of course includes Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. These are the symbols for the life about the plague. With your Moon/Venus in Pisces in natural Aries House these are symbols for the Pisces Age that lead to the Virgo Sub-Age. Your Pallas inconjuncts these two and is in the 6th House: the bridge to moving into the Virgo Sub-Age that is linked with this plague and the Christians blaming themselves for this disease that then lead into the Christian flagellation delusion/ form or repentance.

 

Again, if I'm understanding correctly, I will be able to link past lives to the Virgo sub-age through my 6th house Chiron, and the planets it is aspecting (though of course not using the cosmogram paradigm). So in reference to the above quote, am I correct in understanding that the totality of the Pisces age contains the Virgo sub-age (when using the other system of determining past lives); and any planets in Pisces/12th house will link to these past lives that include the Virgo sub-age?

***************

Yes

****************

And one last thought to clear up a loose end; if the answer to the above is yes, would looking at Neptune correlate to the Pisces age, and Mars to the Aries age, etc?

*****************

Yes, but only as archetypes.

****************

Thanks and blessings,
Heidi

God Bless, Rad

[Heidi]

Thanks Rad.

[Wendy]

Hi Rad,

WOW--I have finally had the luxury of beginning to create my natal cosmograms, and I am amazed!  

I started with the SN of Venus, because it is at 0 Libra.  This cosmogram has so many planetary links, I was stunned, as my natal Venus aspects nine planets, plus the nodes of the Moon and has just as many links or branches.  So I wanted to check to be sure I am seeing this correctly.  

First, for the SN Venus in Libra 0 degrees, there are three correlating degree points which relate to it, so I have three lines/branches across the 0/45 degree line of the cosmogram at varying intervals.  Is this possible?  If so, would I look to the subage of Aries, which is Libra 1180-100BC? Then would I look at Libra or Aries on the Geodetic Map?

Also, when I create a cosmogram for natal Pluto 15 in mutable, should I put the dial, beginning with zero, on Pluto, just like I did with 0 Libra to determine which planets correlate around the dial for it's cosmogram?

Thanks a million,
Wendy

FYI--I have been having so many insights since reading everything about masochism, that I feel I can move forward in a much fuller way and I thought about JWG telling me I was from Sirius and a bus pulled out in front of me with the words EXPRESS and StarTrans on the back of the bus!

[Wendy]

Hi Rad,

Hi Rad

Ari asked:
2."I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?"

**********************************
Rad answered:
Yes but it would also correlate to the Aries zone as well because of the natural cross that exists within it: Libra, Cancer, Capricorn within the Aries Zone.

So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra, Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you.
Ari Moshe

Does this mean we look to the traditional house of the planetary cosmogram we are working with, as well as the sign the planet is actually in, i.e., Mars in Libra in 5th house--so the cardinal geodetic lines apply as well Leo?

Thanks,
Wendy

[Rad]

Hi Rad,

WOW--I have finally had the luxury of beginning to create my natal cosmograms, and I am amazed!  

I started with the SN of Venus, because it is at 0 Libra.  This cosmogram has so many planetary links, I was stunned, as my natal Venus aspects nine planets, plus the nodes of the Moon and has just as many links or branches.  So I wanted to check to be sure I am seeing this correctly.  

First, for the SN Venus in Libra 0 degrees, there are three correlating degree points which relate to it, so I have three lines/branches across the 0/45 degree line of the cosmogram at varying intervals.  Is this possible?  If so, would I look to the subage of Aries, which is Libra 1180-100BC? Then would I look at Libra or Aries on the Geodetic Map?

***********

Yes

**************

Also, when I create a cosmogram for natal Pluto 15 in mutable, should I put the dial, beginning with zero, on Pluto, just like I did with 0 Libra to determine which planets correlate around the dial for it's cosmogram ?

*****************

Yes ......

**********

Thanks a million,
Wendy

FYI--I have been having so many insights since reading everything about masochism, that I feel I can move forward in a much fuller way and I thought about JWG telling me I was from Sirius and a bus pulled out in front of me with the words EXPRESS and StarTrans on the back of the bus!

************

Thanks for sharing that ! God/ess does have It's ways ............

God Bless, Rad

[Rad]

Hi Wendy,

Hi Rad

Ari asked:
2."I see that we are using the Mars in Aries cosmogram as referring to the region of Aries in the geodetic map. If this were a Mars in Libra cosmogram, then we would look at the Libra region in the geodetic map?"

**********************************
Rad answered:
Yes but it would also correlate to the Aries zone as well because of the natural cross that exists within it: Libra, Cancer, Capricorn within the Aries Zone.

So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra, Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you.
Ari Moshe

Does this mean we look to the traditional house of the planetary cosmogram we are working with, as well as the sign the planet is actually in, i.e., Mars in Libra in 5th house--so the cardinal geodetic lines apply as well Leo?

************

If you mean by the fact of Mars being in the 5th House that this then correlates with the Leo/Aquarius Age and Sub-age and then linking the geodetics zones, Maris in Libra, to that then the answer is yes.

***************

Thanks,
Wendy
[/quote]

God Bless, Rad

[Elen]

Hi Rad,

I did up the cosmograms for Barack Obama and was wondering if I could post to see if I got it right.  Someone had mentioned that cutting down the dial doesn't work but I haven't found a way to work with it without cutting it down.  So I'd like to see if the dial I'm working with actually works...  (From what I can tell when I use it it seems to line up ok, but this kind of thing can drive me batty so I don't know for sure....)

If too much I understand.  Just wanted to ask to see if it was an option.

Thanks so much,
Elen

PS What I would post is the table with planets in their appropriate crosses and then the info from the cosmograms put into the table.  There won't be a map beneath the table, but should be clear....

[Rad]

Hi Elen,

I just don't have the time to do that Elen. The procedure is very straight forwards.

God Bless, Rad