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Author Topic: Susan Boyle, A star is born  (Read 4597 times)
Rose Marcus
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« on: May 01, 2009, 09:51 AM »

An interesting study:

Susan Boyle:

9:50 am April 1, 1961 Blackburn, Scotland: 53N52 3W28
(I can't seem to copy the chart, perhaps someone else could post it for view, thanks)

Note: Birth data from Ms Caroline Gerard of The Scottish Astrological Association who obtained the birth certificate from the records office of the Scottish New Register House. The Blackburn, Scotland sole entry listed in many astrology software atlases shows an incorrect latitude and longitude for a Blackburn in Aberdeenshire, and not for the correct second Blackburn in West Lothian. 

Ian Youngs, entertainment reporter for the BBC News, wrote: "Last Saturday, (April 11, 2009, as the transit of Venus retrograde dipped back into Pisces, sign of her exaltation) viewers saw Boyle, with double chin, unkempt hair, frumpy appearance and eccentric demeanour, step onto the talent show stage and proclaim her dream of being a professional singer. The judges rolled their eyes and the audience pulled incredulous faces. Onlookers, on set and at home, were rubbing their hands at the prospect of another hopeless, deluded loser being crushed by a withering Simon Cowell insult. Then she opened her mouth and sang I Dreamed A Dream from Les Miserables. Her voice confounded all expectations - the judges' eyes bulged, the crowd went wild and Boyle became an instant star."

Susan Boyle, youngest of 9 children from a Roman Catholic family, cared for her ailing mother until she passed away at the age of 91 in 2007.  She revealed that she lived alone with her cat Pebbles in the village of Blackburn, and that she wanted to honor the memory of her mother, who had encouraged her to try out for the show. Charming Susan also revealed that she had never been kissed, but later said that she was joking at the time.







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ari moshe
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2009, 11:23 AM »

oh my! i just watched the youtube video for the first time, i am crying to hard! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Boyle

Thanks for sharing the data Rose.

I think she's probably between 2nd and 3rd consensus.

Here's what is clear to me:
- her experiences of abandonment have been ultimateley linked to needing to learn how to take care of herself, and as well as other people, in a possibly abusive or chaotic home- to be conscious and discriminative of her own needs/what constitutes her inner security and safety. Uranus in 4th- her mother's death was very hard for her to deal with, but ultimately paved the road for her personal liberation (she took care of her mother her entire life).

the Pisces 10th south node, ruled by and trine Neptune scoprio 5th- finding some sort of social credibility for her talent, and constantly being met with opposition and discrimination bc of factors beyond her control (scorpio), such as physical appearance and innocence. She's finally being socially recognized via her talent, which was not very validated or encouraged (5th house, qunincunx sun) growing up, probably due to her father and a general lack of attention (youngest in a large family).

the lesson people learned was a very 10th house capricornian one of judgment. consensus reality that judges right and wrong based on material values, just got a glimpse of a more evolved concept of right and wrong or acceptable not acceptable. Chiron on sn implies a strong wounding, in not believing herself capable of making it and feeling profoundly sensitive to the consensus opinion. The healing we see is in her complete self acceptance, not pretending to be any more or anyone other than who she is. Her challenge is to maintain the integrity of following her higher conscious of wright and wrong, which in itself has no clear definition and takes to particular form.

Her sense of identity, and inner secuirty (4th house-nn) is conditioned by mercury in pisces 10th- again her public role, what she's communicating. mercury in Pisces= mass media.

I'm confused when it comes to synthesis. How do we understand Pluto retro on nn in relation to the south node? What kind of past life story can we find in this chart? What would you say is the evolutionary intent in this life?
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Rad
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 01:26 PM »


*** PLANETARY NODES ***

 susan boyle - Natal Chart

Aspect Set: Standard Aspects - General Purpose
Aspects of Longitude


Mer Ascending Node  19°Ar53  Daily Travel +00°46'
   Opp    Mon   7°00' (A)      Opp    Ear   8°29' (A)      Cnj    Sun   8°29' (A)
   Cnj    Vul   7°22' (S)      Cnj    Ven   6°29' (A)      Sqr    Mar   6°18' (A)
   Tri    Ura   2°07' (A)      Sqq    Plu   1°09' (A)      SSq    Chi   0°21' (A)
   SSq    Pal   1°37' (S)      Cnj    Ast   1°27' (S)      Sqq    Nod   1°01' (A)
   SSq    SNo   1°01' (A)      Sxt    MC   2°39' (A)
Mer Descending Node  18°Pi30  Daily Travel +01°19'
   Cnj    Mer   2°13' (A)      Tri    Mar   4°54' (A)      SSq    Jup   0°41' (A)
   Tri    Vx   6°36' (A)      Sxt    EqA   3°36' (A)
Ven Ascending Node  07°Ta58  Daily Travel +00°36'
   Sqr    Jup   5°10' (A)      Opp    Nep   2°44' (A)      Tri    Plu   1°57' (S)
   Sxt    Chi   3°26' (A)      Sxt    Pal   1°28' (A)      Tri    Nod   2°05' (S)
   Sxt    SNo   2°05' (S)      Opp    Vx   3°55' (A)      Tri    PF   4°42' (A)
   Qnx    Cup   1°20' (A)      Sqr    BMo   1°21' (A)
Ven Descending Node  27°Aq51  Daily Travel +00°46'
   Sqq    Mon   0°03' (S)      Sqq    Ear   1°27' (A)      SSq    Sun   1°27' (A)
   SSq    Vul   0°20' (S)      Sxt    Ven   1°28' (S)      Sqq    Mar   0°44' (S)
   Opp    Ura   5°51' (S)      Opp    Plu   8°11' (A)      Cnj    Chi   6°41' (S)
   Cnj    Jun   1°11' (A)      Sqr    Hyg   3°05' (A)      Opp    Nod   8°03' (A)
   Cnj    SNo   8°03' (A)      Tri    Asc   3°56' (A)      Sqr    EqA   5°45' (A)
Mar Ascending Node  04°Ta05  Daily Travel +00°23'
   SSq    Mer   2°48' (A)      Cnj    Ven   7°42' (S)      Sqr    Jup   1°16' (A)
   Sqr    Sat   5°24' (A)      Opp    Nep   6°37' (A)      Tri    Plu   1°57' (A)
   Sxt    Chi   0°27' (S)      Sxt    Pal   2°25' (S)      Tri    Nod   1°49' (A)
   Sxt    SNo   1°49' (A)      Sxt    Asc   2°18' (A)      Opp    Vx   7°48' (A)
   Tri    PF   0°49' (A)      Sqr    BMo   2°33' (S)
Mar Descending Node  28°Sg07 R  Daily Travel -00°13'
   Tri    Ven   1°44' (S)      Tri    Ura   6°07' (S)      Tri    Plu   7°55' (A)
   Sqr    Ves   5°18' (S)      Sxt    Jun   1°27' (A)      Tri    Ast   6°47' (A)
   Tri    Nod   7°47' (A)      Opp    Asc   3°40' (A)      SSq    Vx   1°13' (A)
   Cnj    PF   5°10' (A)
Jup Ascending Node  29°Ge11  Daily Travel +00°02'
   Sxt    Ven   2°48' (S)      Qnx    Sat   0°30' (A)      Tri    Chi   5°21' (S)
   Sqr    Ves   4°14' (S)      Tri    Jun   2°31' (A)      Qnx    Hyg   1°45' (A)
   Tri    SNo   6°43' (A)      Cnj    Asc   2°36' (A)      Sqq    Vx   2°18' (A)
   Opp    PF   4°05' (A)
Jup Descending Node  20°Cp58  Daily Travel +00°02'
   Sqr    Ven   5°24' (A)      Opp    Mar   7°23' (A)      Cnj    Sat   7°43' (S)
   Qnx    Ura   1°01' (A)      Sqq    Plu   0°03' (A)      SSq    Chi   1°26' (A)
   SSq    Pal   0°32' (S)      Sqr    Ast   0°21' (S)      Sqq    Nod   0°05' (S)
   SSq    SNo   0°05' (S)      Tri    EqA   1°07' (A)
Sat Ascending Node  17°Cn01 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Sqr    Mon   4°08' (A)      Sqr    Ear   5°38' (A)      Sqr    Sun   5°38' (A)
   Sqr    Vul   4°30' (S)      Tri    Mer   0°44' (A)      Cnj    Mar   3°26' (A)
   Tri    Nep   6°19' (S)      Sqq    Hyg   1°05' (S)      Sqr    Ast   4°19' (S)
   Qnx    MC   0°13' (A)      Tri    Vx   5°08' (A)
Sat Descending Node  28°Cp46  Daily Travel +00°02'
   Sqr    Ven   2°24' (S)      Cnj    Jup   4°02' (S)      Cnj    Sat   0°05' (A)
   Sxt    Hyg   2°09' (A)      Tri    EqA   6°41' (A)
Ura Ascending Node  11°Ge13  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Tri    Mon   1°40' (S)      Tri    Ear   0°10' (S)      Sxt    Sun   0°10' (S)
   Sxt    Vul   1°18' (A)      Sqr    Mer   5°04' (S)      SSq    Ven   0°09' (A)
   Qnx    Nep   0°31' (S)      Sqr    Plu   5°11' (S)      Sqr    Chi   6°41' (A)
   Sqr    Pal   4°43' (A)      Sqr    Nod   5°19' (S)      Sqr    SNo   5°19' (S)
   Tri    MC   6°01' (A)      Qnx    Vx   0°40' (A)      Tri    Cup   1°54' (S)
Ura Descending Node  16°Sg31 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Sxt    Mon   3°38' (A)      Tri    Sun   5°07' (A)      Tri    Vul   4°00' (S)
   Sqr    Mer   0°14' (A)      Qnx    Mar   2°56' (A)      SSq    Jup   1°18' (S)
   SSq    Sat   2°50' (A)      Tri    Ura   5°29' (A)      Tri    Ast   4°49' (S)
   Sxt    MC   0°43' (A)
Nep Ascending Node  09°Le41 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Sxt    Ear   1°43' (S)      Tri    Sun   1°43' (S)      Tri    Vul   2°50' (A)
   Opp    Jup   6°52' (A)      Sqr    Nep   1°02' (A)      Tri    Ves   6°16' (A)
   Tri    Cer   2°56' (A)      Opp    MC   7°33' (A)      Sqr    Vx   2°13' (A)
   Sxt    Cup   0°22' (S)      Cnj    BMo   3°03' (A)
Nep Descending Node  12°Aq58  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Tri    Mon   0°05' (A)      Tri    Ear   1°35' (A)      Sxt    Sun   1°35' (A)
   Sxt    Vul   0°27' (S)      Qnx    Mar   0°37' (S)      Sqr    Nep   2°16' (S)
   Cnj    MC   4°15' (A)      Sqr    Vx   1°05' (A)      Tri    Cup   3°40' (S)
   Opp    BMo   6°21' (A)
Plu Ascending Node  18°Cn24 R  Daily Travel -00°00'
   Sqr    Mon   5°31' (A)      Sqr    Vul   5°53' (S)      Tri    Mer   2°08' (A)
   Cnj    Mar   4°49' (A)      SSq    Plu   2°38' (A)      Sqq    Chi   1°08' (S)
   Sqr    Ast   2°55' (S)      SSq    Nod   2°29' (A)      Sqq    SNo   2°29' (A)
   Qnx    MC   1°11' (A)      Tri    Vx   6°31' (A)      Sxt    EqA   3°41' (A)
Plu Descending Node  21°Cp28  Daily Travel +00°00'
   Sqr    Ven   4°55' (A)      Opp    Mar   7°52' (A)      Cnj    Sat   7°13' (S)
   Qnx    Ura   0°32' (A)      Sqq    Plu   0°26' (S)      SSq    Chi   1°55' (A)
   SSq    Pal   0°03' (S)      Sqr    Ast   0°08' (A)      Sqq    Nod   0°34' (S)
   SSq    SNo   0°34' (S)      Tri    EqA   0°38' (A)
Chi Ascending Node  01°Sc09 R  Daily Travel -00°07'
   Sqq    Mer   0°08' (S)      Opp    Ven   4°47' (S)      Sqr    Jup   1°40' (S)
   Sqr    Sat   2°28' (A)      Cnj    Nep   9°33' (A)      Tri    Chi   3°23' (S)
   Tri    Pal   5°21' (S)      Tri    Jun   4°29' (A)      Tri    SNo   4°45' (A)
   Tri    Asc   0°38' (A)      Sxt    PF   2°07' (A)      Sqr    BMo   5°28' (S)
Chi Descending Node  28°Ar00  Daily Travel +00°03'
   Cnj    Ven   1°38' (S)      Sqr    Jup   4°48' (S)      Sqr    Sat   0°40' (S)
   Tri    Ura   6°01' (S)      Sxt    Jun   1°21' (A)      Qnx    Hyg   2°55' (A)
   Cnj    Ast   6°41' (A)      Tri    Nod   7°53' (A)      Sxt    Asc   3°46' (A)
   Tri    PF   5°16' (A)
Cup Ascending Node  09°Le28 R  Daily Travel -00°01'
   Sxt    Ear   1°56' (S)      Tri    Sun   1°56' (S)      Tri    Vul   3°03' (A)
   Opp    Jup   6°39' (A)      Sqr    Nep   1°15' (A)      Tri    Ves   6°03' (A)
   Qnx    Pal   2°58' (A)      Tri    Cer   2°43' (A)      Opp    MC   7°46' (A)
   Sqr    Vx   2°26' (A)      Sxt    Cup   0°09' (S)      Cnj    BMo   2°50' (A)
Cup Descending Node  11°Aq54  Daily Travel +00°01'
   Tri    Mon   0°59' (S)      Tri    Ear   0°30' (A)      Sxt    Sun   0°30' (A)
   Sxt    Vul   0°37' (A)      Qnx    Mar   1°41' (S)      Cnj    Jup   9°05' (A)
   Sqr    Nep   1°12' (S)      Cnj    MC   5°20' (A)      Sqr    Vx   0°00' (A)
   Tri    Cup   2°35' (S)      Opp    BMo   5°16' (A)

*** END REPORT ***
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Rad
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 02:06 PM »

HI Ari,

I'm confused when it comes to synthesis. How do we understand Pluto retro on nn in relation to the south node? What kind of past life story can we find in this chart? What would you say is the evolutionary intent in this life?

*****************************************************************************

  One of the past life stories that relates to her life now is that her Soul had many lives of great social power that was inherited from her father of birth, and in one of them she created unspeakable trauma for some people who were born that were 'judged' or considered to be 'abnormal'. The nature of the Soul's 'beliefs' in that life dictated that she interpreted those that were abnormal in whatever ways as inferior and even 'evil'. Those that were so judged were then killed in a variety of ways including being burnt at the stake. This is seen in her S.Node in Pisces .... persecution .. in the 10th House, judgment , relative to it's ruler Neptune in the 5th in Scorpio .. this is one of the symbols of the inherited positions of social power from the father, which is square the Souls Jupiter in Aquarius in the 9th .. beliefs...trauma .. which is also conjunct Saturn in Capricorn .. judgments emanating from those beliefs. This Jupiter is also conjunct the S.Node of Neptune. The ruler of that Jupiter is Uranus in the Souls 4th House, and the related traumas that she created for the family members of those that she sent to their deaths.
  Because of those kinds of lives, and especially the one I am mentioning here, her Soul created deep , deep guilt for herself based on this: the 10th House, Saturn. This then set in motion a series of lives of atonement for that guilt: Pisces, Virgo. Beyond many applications and dimensions of this atonement one of them was her Soul creating lives in which the Soul itself designed circumstances in which the Soul itself would be wrongly 'judged', persecuted, made fun of, and no social power at all. Lifetimes of personal confinement as a result. This is the Pluto/N.Node conjunction in her 4th House. The obvious lesson is one of judgment itself. Judgment is NATURAL to consciousness for that is how we learn. The issue is not judgment as such, but the CONTENT within any of us that is the basis of our judgments. Is that content rooted in Natural Laws, the Natural laws of God/ess, or is that content based on beliefs that are utterly delusional in nature  ?
  The Soul has learned these lessons now, in this life, as a result of the most previous lives. By presenting herself as she has now to the 'world' she is clearly the perfect example for others not to make their instant judgments based on a person's appearance or 'image': 4th House. But to make it upon the inner 'content' of another. This is the ruler of her N.Node being in her 10th in Virgo which then  enforces all those who at first saw her appearance and snickered and guffawed and made their stupid snap judgments. Once she opened her mouth releasing her 'inner content' all those that made these stupid judgments were forced to 'reflect', 10th House, upon their own stupidity and JUDGE THEMSELVES accordingly.

  Rad
 
 
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PamS
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 04:14 PM »

One of the past life stories that relates to her life now is that her Soul had many lives of great social power that was inherited from her father of birth, and in one of them she created unspeakable trauma for some people who were born that were 'judged' or considered to be 'abnormal'.

This is seen in her S.Node in Pisces .... persecution .. in the 10th House, judgment , relative to it's ruler Neptune in the 5th in Scorpio .. this is one of the symbols of the inherited positions of social power from the father, which is square the Souls Jupiter in Aquarius in the 9th .. beliefs...trauma

Hi Rad,

one quickie question... are you getting the social power from the father via the  SN in the 10th...  Im interested to hear about how you interpert the 10/4th house polarity via mother and father?  In lots of  classic astro they do discuss this polarity with the parental axis being 10/4.. Ive heard both  meaning some people see the 10th mother and 4 father.. In EA there is not alot of discussion of this parental polarity could you elaborate? 

blessings,

pam
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 06:53 PM by PamS » Logged
birdwhistler
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 09:18 PM »

Hi Rad,

I must admit that I kind of ignored this Susan Boyle phenomenon when it began, but this thread made me curious and I looked up her performance in addition to looking at her chart. She sang well, and the clips of her give a basic vibrational impression that I feel is important to have in addition to the chart. My take was a little different than your write up. My intuitive sense when combined with the chart archetypes is that she has been misjudged in past lives because of physical differences. She seems to be in the Consensus State and this false judgment might have occurred when she was coming out of the Dimly Evolved, which would correlate to mental/physical differences; and let's face it, those with mental/physical handicaps have not been treated well for the past few thousand years. I would say that she has been concentrating on her vocal abilities (Mercury (North Node ruler) on the South Node), and this has finally paid off for her in this life. She seemed to be in a position to face her fears about judgment when the judges of that show began to snicker before she performed.

One thing that I would bring up in regards to your analysis is when you mentioned those with mental/physical differences being burned at the stake. I've never heard mention of this particular method of execution being used on those with mental or physical disabilities...usually burning at the stake was reserved for heretics or those accused of being witches. Those with mental or physical disabilities were exposed or otherwise gotten rid of at a very young age, especially if they were born to those in positions of social power. If they were allowed to live, they were hidden from sight and never publicly executed because that would be tantamount to an admission of having had a child that was deformed and therefore exposing the parents' own so-called weaknesses.

Just wanted to bring up my impressions on this.

Respectfully,
Bird   
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PamS
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 08:18 AM »

Rad,

when you said,

 
  One of the past life stories that relates to her life now is that her Soul had many lives of great social power that was inherited from her father of birth, and in one of them she created unspeakable trauma for some people who were born that were 'judged' or considered to be 'abnormal'.

what do you mean by abnormal? 


Bird,


  In the history, there are many accounts of people who are burned at the stake and ostracizing because they are physically or mentally different.  Different was and in many ways still seen as heretic.  People with what we might call schizophrenia were burned at the stake in historic times.  The only reason why I know all this is that I have an physical deformity and I have done much research on this topic... Yes maybe in wealthy families the children were"disposed of" but in every day life some of these people were seen as threats.  Not all "differences" are the same.  Being "ugly" is very different than being mentally impaired.  I just think it is much more complicated than what you are saying...

Respectfully,

Pam
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 08:35 AM by PamS » Logged
Lia
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 08:51 AM »

Hi  Rad,

Thanks so much for the marvelous analysis! So many new things we learn with every single post you share. Much gratitude!


Hi Bird,

false judgment might have occurred when she was coming out of the Dimly Evolved, which would correlate to mental/physical differences;

Just a few thoughts about your impressions: well, the dimly evolved or just "coming out of it" is incapable of making judgments of the kind, simply because whatever environment they are in they take it for granted and concentrate only their most  immediate physical environment around them...for them there is no difference between an asylum or the king's court...their personal reality embraces only what immediately affects them....a few people perhaps that  are in daily contact with and things that are around them....thus even if they would be a child of a powerful family they themselves can (maximum!) only been used by others for the kind's of judgment like a puppet...but this puppet would have no guilt simply because it hasn't a clue what ;s going on and have NO actual part in anything that maybe going on.....a soul can be responsible only what is the result of their own doing in some way....what we truly don't know and have no conscious part in it in any way, we can not be held responsible for it....this is very different than denial......therefore this kind of guilt can not originate from the dimly evolved state for it is simply impossible.


The soul needs to be around the second consensus state -so at minimum close to it or transiting into it - in order to have any awareness outside of their immediate surroundings and being capable of making judgments of the kind as discussed here. Even within the first consensus the responsibility can not be taken for they are simply conforming to the whatever most immediate environment familial and social norms are without ever making judgments on their own about it....they will totally identify with the existing norms whatever they might be....

Using social power in any way starting from the second consensus when the soul of "lifting its head up" so to speak to embrace a little larger perspective socially...


She seems to be in the Consensus State

 Boyle story doesn't appear to be consensus, the courage you need to "stand up" being so different and having a dream on your own doing something about it in a way she has done would be typical to the individuated state......it takes individual thought process to be able to do that......especially coming from the confinement she lived within...i.e. it's not others who accompanied her and perhaps encouraged and led her...she wasn't in a social environment that could/would affect her this way, no "model" to follow,..(like many in the 'neonlight' are simply because that's the environment they live in and they follow it's norms and ambitions)

This kind of social environment is totally absent in her life....therefore she isn't transiting anymore she must be at minimum  into the first stage individuated ....I would say in reality WELL into.......and because of that SO THE GUILT ...the soul is able to be responsible for past mistakes...not like a a first or early second consensus...

Anyhow just from this life: standing up the way she did totally alone and coming out of her soul indicates someone who can definitely think for herself..... a soul who already gained the necessary courage along the way.....that's a clear sign of some serious degree of individuation.


As far as burning to the stake, there are many different eras in history... I know in Sparta for example "abnormality" has been severely persecuted including burning abnormal children alive....also many times abnormality was judged as being "evil" thus judged by being a witch.....parents may have been also held responsible in this way....

Anyway that's just my take as a possibilities ... but I know Rad has a really broad knowledge of history and can give us more concrete info on where and when ....

I too would be really grateful Rad if you could help us identify the timeframe and geographical parameters of the particular past life you were referring to. Many thanks in advance!

Love and blessings,
Lia
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 08:53 AM by Lia » Logged
birdwhistler
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 11:46 AM »

Hi All,

First of all, to Lia, I think you misunderstood me regarding judgments that Ms. Boyle had made in past lives. I did not say that she had judged others, Rad said that. I said that she had been misjudged herself by others for being different; and by "different," I don't mean individuated. I would have to disagree with you that those in the Consensus do not have the courage to stand up to others. They certainly can...I would say that the courage to stand up to others has more to do with individual proclivity than state of evolution. Some Souls are just naturally inclined to stand up to others and some are not. I have worked with and been around mentally/physically handicapped people for most of my life and have seen such individuals show enormous courage in societal situations in the face of their differences. I really do not feel that standing up and showing courage in the face of differences is not a property of those in the Consensus or Dimly Evolved state of evolution. After all, there were those persons who were in the Consensus state who stood up to Hitler's regime and said that it was wrong (and were certainly killed for it too). All it really takes to show such courage is an inherent sense of right and wrong that we all have, and there are people in all states of evolution who show no courage in the face of differences.   

As far as Ms. Boyle's individuation, she was on a reality TV show...this is about as consensus as you can get. She wants to succeed socially and is using a very traditional/consensus means to do so. Therefore, I would have to disagree with you about her state of evolution.

Regarding burning at the stake, there is NO historical evidence that anyone who was mentally handicapped or physically deformed was ever executed using this method. Being "retarded" or having some physical deformity was NOT a cause for being burned at the stake, nor is there ANY evidence that it was ever done. Research shows that burning was used in Babylonia as a method of execution for treason, in ancient Israel/Judea as a method of execution for sexual misconduct and heresy, and in Europe and North America as a method of execution for heresy and witchcraft. In fact, in 1184 the Roman Catholic Pope Synod of Verona legislated that burning at the stake was officially a method of execution for heresy. Further research shows that those who were mentally retarded/physically handicapped (and this does not include those with schizophrenia because those persons are not who I am or was referring to in my post...in fact, someone with schizophrenia could have been burned at the stake as a heretic if they spoke out, which they probably would) have never had a specific method of public execution as punishment for what they were born as. The mentally/physically handicapped were either exposed or otherwise killed at birth or they were exiled, put away in asylums, or sold for entertainment when they were older. This is historical fact and is easily verified. The selling for entertainment would seem to pertain to Ms. Boyle if she was indeed in such a state of evolution during the periods where this cruelty was practiced and would explain why she is now succeeding in entertainment in a way that implies fruition for enduring past life persecution (Mercury on the South Node in Pisces)...overnight sensation.

Bird   
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Lia
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2009, 12:19 PM »

....oh, and one more thing: first individuated souls are ALWAYS within the parameters of a consensus appearance...they look like consensus they conform to the existing whatever parameters within their environment.
For two reasons: 1) protection 2) not really knowing yet how to do differently......BUT their inner reality progressively differs...it is fundamentally different inwardly than the consensus reality. Yet because of the outer appearances, it can be mistaken with consensus...

Close attention to their communication and self expression can give us the clues for that inner reality: in Susan's case one of the clear signs for this is when she answered the judge's question how old she is she said:
"I'm 47...."
Then she added (with that breathtaking hip movement!):
".......but this is ONLY one side of me!"

That's a crystal clear reflection of her VERY different inner reality than consensus consciousness would produce! The inner knowledge that her essence, who she really is, has nothing to do with her chronological age (and all the other things, like appearance etc. etc.) was reflected in this spontaneous expression...

These words came out of her soul spontaneously in the spirit of the moment; it's not something she learned or heard from others and just repeated it...it was a fundamental personal statement which actually has layers of meaning deep behind the actual expression and words that came out of her mouth....it came from an inner knowledge that this is fundamentally true. Her soul KNOWS this without a doubt. It doesn't matter how she expressed it what really matters is the universal truth in it....she just expressed it on her own unique way in that split moment. No consensus soul has this kind of sense of inner self identity ....to me, her soul is clearly started the journey of discovering this mysterious individual self ......


To me, she is a typical early 1st stage individuated soul, but certainly the soul is in this state for at least a few life times now.... who just took the very first step to show something about herself to the outer world....i.e.  she will be coming out of the consensus appearance that covered up completely her actual inner reality - which was already different inwardly to some degrees .....from here onward it will be progressively more different each life ...and that will progressively compel the soul to change their outer reality step by step....to be more coherent to who the soul feels they inwardly are...the soul will find others later on who will support this individuation process.....

What we need to remember is that the soul's inner individuation starts far earlier than any outer sign may suggest.......For evolution happens within.... and it takes time, (usually several life times) until a soul is able to bring at least some of this fundamental inner difference into their outer reality...
.....it’s a long and difficult road Grin .....this kind of individuated difference then full bloomed in the 2nd stage....when they totally separate themselves from anything and anybody....especially from consensus....

But Susan is far from this she is just at very beginning of bringing out anything at all that is truely "her" to the outer life arena.....everything is perfectly consensus appearant yet in her life...which is typical first individuated taking the first few steps .....

Anyhow --  just wanted to add these few thoughts in the hope that this may help understand the evo. stages and their apparent -and hidden - signs a bit clearer.

Blessings,

Lia
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Lia
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 12:45 PM »

Hi Bird,

Yes, sorry, I misunderstood what you meant by the dimly evolved. Got ya now.

But I don't exactly understand what you meant by consensus standing up to  others....I agree, they can stand up for something according to whatever conditioning they may have...some may have a useful conditioning and based on that they can indeed stand up for the values etc. they identify with; and I agree that can sometimes be good too of course!....as you mentioned in nazi germani etc....Yeah, I agree with all that -based on the above.

However, I didn't mean anything like this in regards to Susan.....I simply meant when a soul stands up to show itself...to show something about it's inherent individuality...

Anyway, of course this is just my perception - I understand all what you said about Susan's consensus reality.....to me it appears only an outer reality within which her soul was hiding, and will continue to do so to some degree even in the coming lives.......but within all that something else has already started.......yet, again, of course that's just my view ...

I leave the analysis to figure out her actual inner reality to each one of you of course Smiley....I just shared my conclusion, that's all.

Blessings,

Lia


« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 12:47 PM by Lia » Logged
Rad
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2009, 12:58 PM »

One of the past life stories that relates to her life now is that her Soul had many lives of great social power that was inherited from her father of birth, and in one of them she created unspeakable trauma for some people who were born that were 'judged' or considered to be 'abnormal'.

This is seen in her S.Node in Pisces .... persecution .. in the 10th House, judgment , relative to it's ruler Neptune in the 5th in Scorpio .. this is one of the symbols of the inherited positions of social power from the father, which is square the Souls Jupiter in Aquarius in the 9th .. beliefs...trauma

Hi Rad,

one quickie question... are you getting the social power from the father via the  SN in the 10th...  Im interested to hear about how you interpert the 10/4th house polarity via mother and father?  In lots of  classic astro they do discuss this polarity with the parental axis being 10/4.. Ive heard both  meaning some people see the 10th mother and 4 father.. In EA there is not alot of discussion of this parental polarity could you elaborate? 

blessings,

pam

Hi Pam,

 The inherited social position of the father is symbolized with her S.Node in the 10th ruled by her Neptune in Scorpio in the 5th , that would be a archetype of royalty in this context, which is square her Jupiter in Aquarius in the 9th conjunct .... SATURN .. in the 8th .. the 8th House, Scorpio would be the archetype of inheritance .. and within this the Neptune itself being ruled by of course her Pluto .. inheritance .. in her 4th .. the family of origin ... which is opposition to her Chiron in Pisces on her S.Node ...

 The 4th/10th dynamic/ archetype of parents .... mother/ father .. is really, in the end, a cultural issue and related to different times in history. For example some cultures going back in time had the men nurse the babies: they were called 'brood males'. They developed the capacity to even produce milk through their breasts.  And these males then served as the parent that did the daily upbringing and supplied the child's daily needs, etc. In other words, from the point of view of the patriarchal form of reality the 'roles' were reversed. So what it comes down too is the issue of 'gender assignment' which is a function of the 4th/ 10th House/ Cancer/Capricorn archetypes. And the gender assignment is a function of whatever culture/time in history that we could look at: what is then 'expected' by way of norms for what it means to be a male or female and the 'roles' therein.
  On the other hand the 4th House and Cancer will always correlate to the early upbringing of any child all the time, and the general environment that the child grows up within. This will also include the emotional environment and the types of emotional experiences that the child has as a result relative to the parents own reality, and what they are able to provide. The 10th House will always correlate to the type of culture that a child in born into and thus all the social taboos, laws, norms, expectations that serve as the conditioning to that child's sense of 'reality'.
  So of course it's possible for a child to have parents that PROVIDE BOTH ROLES, it's possible for a child to have a mother who primarily does the daily emotional needs of the child while the father provides for the material needs of the child/ family / mother, and it's possible for a SINGLE PARENT to do both.
  So, in the end, the 4th / 10th, Capricorn/ Cancer is not the black and white of one equaling the father, and the other being the mother. 
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Rad
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2009, 01:04 PM »

Rad,

when you said,

 
  One of the past life stories that relates to her life now is that her Soul had many lives of great social power that was inherited from her father of birth, and in one of them she created unspeakable trauma for some people who were born that were 'judged' or considered to be 'abnormal'.

what do you mean by abnormal? 


HI Pam,

 Any culture at any time in history will have their own consensus standards or what constitutes 'normalcy'. And any variation of deviance from that is of course considered, judged, as 'abnormal'.

 Rad


« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 01:39 PM by Rad » Logged
PamS
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2009, 01:26 PM »

Hi Rad,

yes thank you for all the insight....

Bird,

I dont want to argue, but people were burned for being mentally challenged and physical deformed... Goodness Hitler gassed so many undesirables...If you are talking specifically during certain witch trials, during a specific time in history, then maybe you are right  But outside of this people were publically killed for being deformed or mentally challenged.  I have worked with this population of people with disabilities for years and part of my job was doing research on this very topic. 

Respectfully,
blessings,

pam
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Rad
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2009, 01:30 PM »

Pam,

Quote
  In the history, there are many accounts of people who are burned at the stake and ostracizing because they are physically or mentally different.  Different was and in many ways still seen as heretic.  People with what we might call schizophrenia were burned at the stake in historic times.  The only reason why I know all this is that I have an physical deformity and I have done much research on this topic... Yes maybe in wealthy families the children were"disposed of" but in every day life some of these people were seen as threats.  Not all "differences" are the same.  Being "ugly" is very different than being mentally impaired.  I just think it is much more complicated than what you are saying...


   ***********************************************************************

  This is of course so right on. Included in this reality is the fact that those that have been in power have also 'burned' at the stake 'others' as a manifestation of their own will independent of the general rules, laws, and regulations of whatever culture and time.

  Rad





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