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Author Topic: souls that block thier level of evolution for special purposes  (Read 6306 times)
Rad
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2009, 09:48 AM »

Hi Ari,

Quote
When I shared earlier about Avatar's not having 'karma' I should have been more specific in that what they do have no EARTHLY karma. Most still do have karma from the point of view of the Astral and Causal realms.

2. so my understand is, an avatar can have any chart. we just have to understand WHY they have that chart. in the case of my relative, what kind of observations would lead to the conclusion that she was an avatar?

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 Yes, first in the case of an Avatar it is essential to understand that WHY in their CONTEXT. And the use of EA, properly understood and applied, does provide for that answer. In the cases of Avatars the only observation that can occur is the observation of the individual Soul itself. No form of astrology, including EA, can say , of itself as in just looking at symbols in paper, can say who is and is not an Avatar.


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point of clarification: squares to the nodes indicate choices that have lead to the conditions of what we call a skipped step. If in a past life there were no choices to necessitate such a condition, it is still possible, in a current life, to have planets squaring the nodes.

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 It is , in fact, not possible to have planet(s) squaring the Nodes in the current life in which the prior life choices were not made symbolizing and indicating 'skipped steps'. This is, indeed, exactly why a planet(s) are squaring the nodes in the current life birth chart.

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 Can you explain to me WHY an avatar would choose that?

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 Ari, there can be no one answer of course .. each case is unique to itself ....

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Thank you for spending time on this Rad. I really appreciate it.


  You are more than welcome Ari .. I think it's great that you are asking such questions ......




  Rad
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Lia
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2009, 11:32 AM »

Hi Ari,

May I add a few things to this very interesting thread..?.
In the case of your relative and also in general I think it is important to understand that NO MATTER what the soul may chose and for what reasons, the KNOWLEDGE it embraced once can not and will NOT  go away...yeah,  may be hidden, suppressed etc. but in essence it will be there...

For example, being an "avatar" means at minimum, being in the 3rd stage of the spiritual. The underlying COMPLEX knowledge about life in general and about the divine in particular will be STILL there.
That's your first virgo (checking the facts!) point in order to see the actual reality of the whole picture...to try to put the pieces together in order to observe someone’s actual reality. Not the outer reality for that can be anything...but the actual inner knowledge the actual inner reality if you know a person you can have at least some sort of feel of that actual reality. So if someone had the knowledge of being an avatar even if they would lead the most humble householder life the actual WISDOM in their communication will be reflected...if not relative to their lives but CERTAINLY relative to other people’s lives.

Another thing  I wanted to add to this is the fact that in today's society a lot of people ASSUME a lot "knowledge" they actually don't have......sorry to say....

So on that note, I would suggest to check the source of information before considering/wondering if it can be true or not.....
 These kind of "statements" I heard from many of my clients who have been greatly confused by all kinds of "psychics" who claim themselves far more than they actually are...sorry to say but this is the nature of reality we live AT THIS very segment of time......aquarian age is just rising...people try to accelerate their consciousness but in reality those who haven’t really done some real work on that before may end up in personal delusions...Why? Uranus’ role in the chart is trying to accelerate consciousness, in order to bring the soul closer to neptune....yet, when it is based on misunderstandings personal delusions of some kind may happen either partially, in fragmented way or sometimes even fully.... people who think they are far ahead than where they actually are...

This is also true to in general to the individuated state of consciousness for the same reason uranus, acceleration issues....some bits of consciousness is ahead and some bits are far behind...fragmented ...the result is a misunderstanding...

So please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to doubt the very probable fact from your relative's charts that she is far above the consciousness level relative to the ENVIRONMENT she lives in...this is very likely from her chart.......I am just saying it is always worthwhile to apply a method of checking the facts left and right before we assume anything ...

Like one of the things I learnt via my own evolution is the importance of asking the right question for without that we can never receive the answer that we are really looking for:-)

In simple terms, what I am trying to say is just that being fully conscious is a very very rare occurrence, people even before they get "fully conscious" will be teaching and helping others for life times in one way or another......and that knowledge doesn't go away. Check that reality with your relative that’s one direction....

The other direction (I have gemini s.node I have learned to never settle with one side only:-)) is the what I said above, checking the source of information; like what I can tell you from my own personal experience as a counselor not one client of mine has been previously mislead by all kinds of “psychic” readings...amongst other things I heard the exact SAME statement given to one of my clients THE EXACT SAME.... interesting isn’t that? So many people appear to be “fully conscious” before and what can be the reason they lost it....?

Well, if you don’t mind I offer what I offered in essence to my client: from the QUALITY of the advice the “psychic” was giving it can actually traced BACK the psychic level of consciousness...
Because that’s the bottomline to me in essence...let me explain this: if the person was able to give a really useful advice which the person to whom they “read” was able to use in a constructive way if that had the answer for their inner dilemma, if that was really point out the direction where they felt deep in their soul they were suppose to go, than the person certainly knew what they were talking about...
If the person gave no useful advice in essence and ended up with a statement like the above ...well be very careful that’s all I can say...

And in all honesty I would even give these “psychics” the benefit of the doubt that some may not even do this out of bad intention, simply they say what may occur true them with the consciousness they have....

Imagine: what's happening when a 1st or second individuated soul perceives intuitively that the person they are giving "reading to” is actually far above their own consciousness level? (We need to understand that none of us really able to even GRASP what is far above us evolutionary..) 

Can you see what I mean? A person in the 1st or 2nd individuated can easily make horrendous mistakes about those who are truly above their current level of consciousness. That's why even when the motivation is not to deceit and mislead it can end in just that.....

A 1st spiritual soul for example is far from being "fully conscious" Yet a 1st individuated soul who may give them a "reading" may perceive intuitively something important about that...yet they are perceiving it in the 1st or 2nd state individuated.....to THEM a 1st spiritual appears like they somehow know everything in essence that the individuated searching for....with that misinterpreted/misunderstood “truth” they can make such statement like the above...

This typically what happened to a few clients of mine by the way:-) When I asked them about the other aspects of the reading and pointed out the lack of understanding of the person who gave the reading how A doesn’t connect to B in their reading and pointed out what’s missing they understood and realised they went to a person who even with their best intention simply is UNABLE TO REALLY HELP THEM. Why? Because those clients were typically 1st spiritual and the person giving reading to them was individuated....

Also, souls in the 1st spiritual usually will never even make such horrendous statements...simply because THEIR UNDERSTANDING of what this really mans is light-years broader than the individuated or consensus person...so they won’t be making such claim out of the blue....(at least usually and if they are a bit more in the 1st spiritual not just entered it out of the last stage of individuated for that very beginning  the soul still has a bit of the self importance that is of course the nature of the individuated ladder)

Al this to me points to the lower consciousness levels of the “psychic” who gave such statements...of course again that’s just my opinion based on my experiences...it is just my view offered for consideration....

Usually things are coming out perceiving a little bit of truth and mixing it with a little bit (or more than a little bit:-) of misunderstanding...it is the nature of our humanness....then we try to sort it out and see if it leads somewhere:-))

Unfortunately, the evolutionary ladder has an interesting paradox: the least souls know from the lower to the middle levels of evolution the MORE they are convinced they know it all....the higher the soul grows on that “ladder” the more it learns about how much it DIDN‘T know and what kind of misunderstanding that caused...so the more it knows the more it quietens and becomes more humble:-)

A soul with true vision will never ever give such a statement WITHOUT pointing out the ways what the other person needs to do ...like Babaji pointed out perfectly what Lahiry Mahasaya was suppose to do...did the psychic do anything like that? If not I would suggest doubting at least a little how relevant the information may be and what could be total mistake and maybe a little bit of truth behind it...

I hope it is okay to share my thoughts on this Ari and you wouldn’t take it in the wrong way??

Love and blessings,

Lia
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ari moshe
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2009, 06:23 PM »

Hi Rad,
Quote
point of clarification: squares to the nodes indicate choices that have lead to the conditions of what we call a skipped step. If in a past life there were no choices to necessitate such a condition, it is still possible, in a current life, to have planets squaring the nodes.

****************************************************************************


 It is , in fact, not possible to have planet(s) squaring the Nodes in the current life in which the prior life choices were not made symbolizing and indicating 'skipped steps'. This is, indeed, exactly why a planet(s) are squaring the nodes in the current life birth chart.

right, but an avatar CAN incarnate with squares to the nodes, correct?

Hi Lia
Quote
I hope it is okay to share my thoughts on this Ari and you wouldn’t take it in the wrong way??
not at all dear! i appreciate your thoughts.

im not interested in determining whether the psychic is correct or not or knowing the source of the information. I'm interested in the questions that arose from what she told me.




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Rad
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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 10:43 AM »

Hi Ari,

"right, but an avatar CAN incarnate with squares to the nodes, correct" ?


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 yes...........a perfect example is Jesus himself .. Mercury squaring his Nodes .. Mercury being in Aquarius ..

Rad

« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:51 AM by Rad » Logged
Lia
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2009, 02:57 PM »

Hi All,

I've just been reading through this part of evolutionary necessity
and karma question and "coincidentally" it closely relates to some of
the experiences I am having right now in my life .....I have tr. pluto on my sun Huh Shocked

Anyway, in regards to this I’d like to add my views, hope that's
okay...?? :-)

I think there is no differentiation in essence between karma and
evolutionary necessity...it may SEEM like but only if we looking at
a little segment of evolution and not the whole lot where
everything connects to everything...

For every evolutionary necessity leads to karma, and every karmic
condition meant to promote evolution...therefore it represents
evolutionary necessity at the end....One comes out of the other and
then connects back to it...like everything in creation.....

Evolutionary necessity means that, there is something the soul has
to embrace that it hasn't yet. So needs to learn something that it
didn't know before. When that is resisted it will be missing from
the intended consciousness...and that leads to consequences.
For anything WE DONT KNOW or didn't embrace yet is and WAS part of
our overall consciousness and based on that we made choices that
lead to actions of some kinds and that is what creating our
karma...
Is it not so Rad?

To me it seems, the need to overcome the whatever limitation that
create the "evolutionary necessity" is coming out of the mistakes
of past choices and actions.....of course there is a difference
doing something deliberately “wrong” or doing it out of a
misunderstanding false belief getting something half right half wrong etc...yet both leads to consequences and
that's the point. Karma is simply the consequences of all our past
choices..good and bad....all together.....yet ALL that is for
evolutionary purposes thus it is evolutionary necessity....

With a very simple example: let say a Mormon (or whatever
religious) mother doesn’t allow her child to be given blood because
she TRULY believes it is a sin to interfere and her child will be
healed by god and will be punished if interference allowed. She
sincerely wants the very best for her child relative to her
beliefs, consciousness level and knowledge that she has at that
time. And of course the result is that the child dies. What a
trauma and disillusionment. More than likely it will take life
times for the soul to recover want on earth happened here.

But question is: is this “evolutionary necessity” or “karma”?
For I think it is both...can not be otherwise...I think it is
always both
Of course there is a difference if the mother wanted to kill her
child. But what if she didn’t and yet she still did by the choice
and the actions she made based on confusion, misbelief etc. This
too will create karma and not so easy for sure.

Yet it can be very easily misunderstood if we differentiate between
the two let say in one reading it may sounds like she didn’t do
anything wrong (well she did out of misunderstanding) or the other
way around, saying she has a horrible karma for killing her
child...

I think both view would lack the other part of the truth...

I think none of them will be true in itself...and evolution if
filled with actions out of misunderstandings of all kinds...

If we looking at the deeper aspect of human evolution and
understand that every single choice is always a mixture of right
and wrong beliefs for we are never fully aware of everything there
is always something for us to learn...this I think is the key...

Like let a soul have been extremely sadistic in past lives...and
done horrendous things to  many others...however the soul’s
consciousness was consensus and was not able to think for itself
although it still has personal responsibility of course as each of
us do. Yet in the bigger picture it seems to me the fact needs to
be taken into consideration that the soul was not able to see it’s
own downfall it didn't have the capacity in the consensus state. So
it got deeper and deeper into denial because the soul felt
absolutely horrible and it didn’t know why. It didn't know anything
better but the consensus and followed that... was trying to ever
more forcefully get rid of what it thought was the problem:
others... And yet everthing got worst...the rage and anger lead to
soul to torture and harm many people BUT THAT WAS THE WAY CONSENSUS LEADERS OPERATED..all of them...one justified the other. Again the soul could not think for itself. So while there is a lot of
negative karma it is not only that it also fuels the evolutionary
necessity to come out of the 3rd consensus and out of the inner
horror the soul feels which actually accelerates evolution...

So the karma itself becomes the very heart of evolutionary
necessity even in this case....to embrace something to
consciousness which will parashoot the soul to a totally different
level at the end...
I feel it would be a mistake to perceive this as a purely karmic
condition...it includes and leads to evolutionary necessity...

Does this make sense?

For I personally feel that it is really important to clarify this...I
feel that categorising things like evolutionary necessity and karma
are different things we may saw the old harmful seeds in a new way
leading to possible misunderstandings, like souls may continue the
deeply ingrained beliefs of inferiority/ superiority that damaged
ALL OF US so deeply for so long......

For example it may lead people to believe things like:
 "Oh, the square, opposition whatever, in my chart simply is an
evolutionary necessity while somebody elses square etc. is karma
meaning of course THEY have done something ‘wrong’ while I of
course have not.“
 
While others who have the inclination to the opposite side may
assume inwardly:
 “Oh I knew something was wrong with me, MY  squares etc. are
different, I MUST have done something wrong, while other people's
chart of course reflect only evolutionary necessity via their
stressful aspects."

Can you see what I mean Rad? .... hope it's okay to say this??

Love and blessings,

Lia
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Rad
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2009, 09:33 AM »

Hi Lia,

  Yes, of course, it's ok to say whatever you need or want to say, and, YES, I totally  understand what you are saying, and YES I also totally agree with what you are saying about this. And thanks so much for posting this.

  Rad
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Lia
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2009, 12:40 PM »

Hi Rad,

Thanks for your answer;it's really great to know that you too agree.

Love and blessings,
Lia
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PamS
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2009, 01:31 PM »

Thank you Lia, Rad and Ari for the conversation,

I tend not to use the word Karma because of its vast misinterpretations- it upsets clients... I like that the conversation had merged these two ideas, since neither of the ideas are concrete....

thanks,

pam
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Stacie
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2009, 06:19 PM »

Hi All,

Lia I understand what you’re saying also.  These concepts (karmic causes/evolutionary necessity) are easy to misapply and can create a lot trouble and misunderstanding when that happens.  But to me I think it’s important we don’t lose sight of the fact that these ARE distinct dynamics, otherwise what reason would Wolf have for attempting to teach about their distinctions?   Wolf has said that determining evolutionary necessity is simple to determine in the birth chart: it is reflected in every symbol that's connected to pluto in the natal signature.  He also made it clear that being able to determine karmic causes is NOT easy, and that there is no ‘technique’ that can be taught for making this determination.

The issue I think, is that they are so CLOSELY linked, so non-linear, and so nuanced, that it takes an extremely developed capacity to be able to KNOW which is which.  And even when karmic causes are accurately identified, one must have an absolute purity of intention and sensitivity/soul attunement when attempting to communicate something like karmic causes to another, because the individual may not be ready on an inner basis to hear or resolve the content.  To impose this kind of information upon someone who isn’t actually ready to deal with it creates the risk of generating the exact opposite effect that EA was brought forth to serve, as does imposing this kind of information when it has not been correctly interpreted in the first place. 

As I understand it, those who have the developed capacity/clarity to accurately identify actual karmic causes from evolutionary necessity will convey it on the basis of receiving the specific inner direction to do just that, and only unless.  So when it comes to the practical application of EA for most of us, I agree that it’s better to come from the simple standpoint you have stated: acknowledging that any emphasized dynamic in the soul/birthchart simply reflects the outcome of experiences and choices made therein..relative to intention, relative to evolutionary capacity..and that the existing dynamics are exactly what the soul needs for continuing on with its evolutionary growth. 

However, for those who are seeking to consciously expand spiritual awareness, I personally see tremendous value in contemplating karmic causes/evolutionary necessity as two distinct dynamics, because they are distinctions that are reflected in the mystery/nature/process of evolutionary law.  Each of us will eventually come to know within ourselves how these dynamics interact to facilitate the evolutionary journey as our own consciousness evolves, yet we can also make a proactive effort to open up to this understanding while we are literally in the process of getting there.  To me this reinforces the desire/intention of developing a more conscious relationship to the evolutionary impulse as it operates within ourselves, which also brings the capacity for perceiving how this operates in others.  This isn’t to say that we can *only* develop this type of perception by contemplating and defining the stupid concepts of ‘karmic causes’ and ‘evolutionary necessity’ (as if some kind of rigid prerequisite Wink ) ...I’m just pointing out that it's a relevant thing to make an effort to understand, and can provide this kind of value. 

It's very obvious that we’re both speaking to the same bottom line.  This is my version of the words that reflect how I understand it  Smiley

Blessings to you my friend...may that pluto/sun fusion of yours deepen and intensify the special purpose your life is serving, and bring forth the inner resources that will empower you in seizing the next level of your destiny...

Stacie
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PamS
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2009, 07:56 PM »

Hi all,

Stacie,  I would like for you to go into depth about how you see the difference between karma and evolutionary intent.  I would appreciate hearing how you differentiate the two.  I have studied this information for years and have done lots of past life work and my personal experience is that there is an overlapping that occurs where you cant distinguish between the two.  I just think they are messy and I'm willing and interested in hearing what people think about this.   



Thanks and blessings,

Pam
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 10:14 AM by PamS » Logged
PamS
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« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2009, 10:19 AM »

Hello,

Just one other thing to throw into the pot.  The differences between karmatic retrubution...Karma...evolutionary intent.  I think we might be confusing all of these.. It seems that Karma and Evolutionary intent have an overlapping, karmatic retribution is another story, but at the same time has a messy relatonship to evolutionary intent.  I just have not experienced these as clear cut.  I would think in a case of souls that are very "malignant" then it would be clear cut..
Would love to know what others think....

thanks,
blessings,

pam
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Lia
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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2009, 10:44 AM »

Hi Pam,

Great to know that you also do past life work...I too am a past life therapist so I have some really direct insights into this subject both ways, personally and via clients.....

Stacie,

I think I understand what you are saying. And indeed I agree that there is two "distinct force" in the soul which can be understood as one aspect that is "evolutionary intention or necessity" and the other as "karma" and they can be divided as different forces yet in ESSENCE they are just the different “ends“ of the one and same thing.......

For example we can divide intelligence and emotion ...indeed they appear to be something  different...point is just that the difference relative to this division is RELATIVE to the POINT OF VIEW from where we’re looking at it...can you see what I mean?

For if we looking at the WHOLE it is not CONSCIOUSNESS  ITSELF hat has these things...AND able to looking at itself from one and the other...am I looking at myself from my “head“ or “tale“...and consciousness indeed able to do that......in order to understand itself it looks itself from one end of the “equation” and than the other...and yet it is all one and the same...it is CONSCIOUSNESS itself that has it both and it can’t divide itself into that two halves for it has it both and that “two” is actually dependent upon each other and evolves via this inherent connections...is it not true that as we change our understanding including our understanding of our own emotions those very emotions as a RESULT will evolve and will metamorphose? AND the opposite way around: some feelings, some emotions coming from deep within us can in a split second clarify something we were not able to get intellectually no matter how hard we tried.....so one is fom the other and leads back to the other and vice versa...

Anyway, back to the issue: as you pointed out Wolf recognised the very essence of evolutionary necessity, as the underlying propelling force of the Soul (pluto). Which is an absolute truth of course, it is the heart of EA and evolution itself. Well if it wouldn’t be if there will be only “karma” just itself we won’t learn anything to be honest...we will repeat the same old things get knocked out as a consequence and it will be nothing else just some really meaningless punishment if you really really think about it....sometimes we even appear like that I must add:-) but appear is the keyword here....for it’s not true in the larger scheme of the things...

It is actually the greatness of Wolf’s work his breathtakingly marvellous intuitive faculty that helped me, as well as SO many to understand the underlying truths relative to my own soul, and again the truth of many others as well.

On that note, let’s remember that Wolf also pointed out the fact that anything to do with karma also correlates to the same symbol: pluto of course, The soul. So can you see what this means in regards to this discussion?

He also pointed out a different aspect of the same plutonian dual truth: the soul has a DUAL desire nature two opposite forces that drives the soul from the beginning and what happens on the evolutionary journey is that one direction of this desire nature will eventually replace the other.

I’d like to put the same very essential truth in a different way: we can perceive this as one direction of the desire nature will MERGE, EMBRACE THE OTHER. Then we have the same end haven’t we?
I.e. as long as one part of me wants something different than the other parts of me, I am in inner "battle" indeed....than take over maybe the solution.....IF  however it is possible that at one point ALL parts of "me" as a soul want the absolute same one desire, I am at absolute peace .....is that not true?

(i.e. this is the major difference between the way of the patriarchy and the way of the matriarchy relative to spiritual development and offered endorsed ways to get there.....yet both fundamental approaches are VALID paths...in essence patriarchy is based on capr.= disciplining the senses and emotions.......in essence the matriarchy's way was the opposite, cancer=using to absolute TOTALITY of the senses and emotions and their intensity......well at the end both will arrive at the same place, and even more both will embrace each other....but ..anyway...that's another "book" Grin )


Again it is just a matter of PERCEPTION from which point are we viewing it from, which is closest to us at any point of time and space..... which has nothing to do with the underlying truth in it, it just another way of understanding/perceiving the same truth in the middle.....

One starts from the elephant’s head so to speak the other starts from it’s tale...if they both persistent enough to follow where that truth leads they found the same one truth....yet on the way they may appear as if they were talking about two totally different things....but were they?

Something like that is what I mean...
But of course I am more than open and curious to hear your thoughts further on this subject...

And on a personal level Stacie: THANKS SO VERY MUCH for your beautiful words....they are so true and touch me so deeply you have no idea....god/ess bless your wonderful soul!

Much love and blessings,
Lia
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 10:52 AM by Lia » Logged
Steve
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« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2009, 12:37 AM »

Quote
in essence patriarchy is based on capr.= disciplining the senses and emotions.......in essence the matriarchy's way was the opposite, cancer=using to absolute TOTALITY of the senses and emotions and their intensity......

I'd like to add my ten cents to that, from insights I came to some time back.  What we think/feel of Capricorn is our experiences in patriarchal reality of Capricorn, where the archetype has been totally distorted. 

Most people, when thinking of Capricorn, do they see it as masculine or feminine?  In our time, the majority, without thinking, would probably say it is masculine, the essence of hierarchical consensus.  Yet Capricorn is a FEMININE sign. Thus, what we experience of Capricorn has little to do with the natural archetype of undistorted Capricorn.

I began to ponder, "what would the undistorted Capricorn archetype look like?". 

Lia said the undistorted Cancer is "using to absolute TOTALITY of the senses and emotions and their intensity".  Capricorn, the polarity of Cancer, represents structure.  Thus the undistorted Capricorn would be the structures we would naturally create to allow us to live aligned with the natural Cancer emotional energies - structures that would be harmonious with, supportive of, living in those ways.  In essence, how the Goddesss intended reality to be structured. 

This begins shedding a whole new light on Capricorn.  It opens a door through which we can begin forgiving Capricorn, releasing the judgments we have placed on Capricorn.  The problem has never been Capricorn.  The problem is what humans have done with (and to) Capricorn. Those are two very different things.    I saw that the more I truly embrace this way of looking at it, the more I become part of the forces working to redirect Capricorn energy back to its intended ways, structures that serve and support our evolutionary unfoldings.

This also explains what someone like Yogananda would do with a 10th house Pluto, a very different experience than the majority would have.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2009, 12:53 AM »

i loved that steve.

is the following an appropriate relationship between evolutionary necessity and karma:
pluto in the second naturally implies an evolutionary neccesity...
i am eating lots of sugar... or I am practicing qi gong.
both create consequences (karma) which in turn serve as a potential catalyst for evolution.

viola?
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Lia
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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2009, 06:56 AM »

Hi All,

Steve, what you said about capr. is very true ...it is all about structure indeed...Question is what kind of structure...as for the cancer/capr. axis there is so much to it ...but the bottomline is perhaps to ask ourselves which part of the cancer/capr. equation has been really distorted in patriarchy? What happened here....was it distorted from the capr. end or from the cancer end?

Because of course no matter which will be distorted first both end will be distorted as a result. It's just that the capr. end will always show the social consequences...however lets just look into the real reasons....what has been distorted here and how....


For this we need understand this axis: cancer is the personal emotional awareness of our being, and capr. the polarity is as a vital PART of our emotional awareness. It is but our individual emotional SOCIAL AWARENESS...it’s a long story I wrote an article about this I will put that up in the blog it’s too long here:-)
But in essence I wanted to say: it is not capricorn we need to learn to forgive...it’s NOT social awareness (embracing all the material resources of the time and space reality that we live in)  applied with seriously contemplated responsibility that went OUT OF PROPORTION and became ENLARGED as the leading force in patriarcy. It is the very opposite what happened here, it is the total LACK OF IT. That's what needs to be forgiven and relative to this axis what is that what needs forgiveness at the first place?
It is the absolutely distorted PERSONAL EGOCENTRIC sense of SELF-IMPORTANCE in those few, in whom the opposite end of this axis has gone TOTALLY OUT OF PROPORTION, And that is cancer of course, what has been ENLARGED HERE IS THEIR EGOS; CANCER.

That's what really happened here cancer went out of proportion not capr. Then of course this resulted in an absolute distortion to both end of the equation.....when one end is distorted of anything the other end will be distorted also.

So when cancer is totally enlarged in a human being, when the personal emotional needs are not restricted boundaries that can give it the healthy and natural DISCIPLINE and PROPORTION relative to the social whole it lives in, i.e. balance by the needs of the others, what’s happening? Well what’s happening is WHAT we see for the last few thousands of years...

That's EXACTLY what’s happening....a few EGOS, a few FAMILIES became the ruler of the world via their egocentric sense of importance with a total LACK of any social awareness and any sense of real responsibility. If they can enforce (scorpio!! soul where the enlarged ego is descending from!) that kind of an “order” the world will become upside down. AND IT CERTAINLY HAS.  

Those on the other hand who have the capr. end of the axis distorted, enlarged IF THE DISTORTION STARTS FROM THERE it will result in a very different occurrence: it will create an infinite sense of responsibility and duty to take any BURDEN WHATSOEVER...why? Because distorting enlarging it from THIS end, will of course also hit back on the other end. What that will be? It will be the total LACK of personal egocentric sense of emotional awareness and any importance attached to it. Enlarge capricorn and cancer will be lacking.....enlarge cancer and capr. will be lacking.

That's the real issue here.....
Look at the incredible NUMBER of souls who have bee doing the MAJORITY of all the work on this planet for the last few thousands of years. Well, THEY ARE THE ONES who had the capr. end totally enlarged in them. They were and ARE the SLAVES of this world in one form or another with an absolute zero sense of personal emotional needs and any feeling that they have any egocentric importance whatsoever. The sense of absolute self importance has it's opposite it is the sense of absolute DUTY for the whatever social unit they find themselves in....their personal egocentric sense of being will be literally squeezed out, dry and wither. Their time (life) in the form is for one reason: to work to perform the duties they are given to...by whom? Of course distorted cancer...the "divine child" who deserves everything....
Capr. is the sign which actually correlates to the real workers, the silent slaves and servants of the world in patriarchy....

Just one example on this: let’s remember that cancer is also feeding....and now lets make a little counting in our head, how many people on this earth do not have enough to eat and dying from hunger EVEN TODAY?
Let's just ponder what could be happening to their cancer archetype within their consciousness in order to HAVE that kind of experience? How many times it must have been repeated in order to get use to it to be drawn to that kind of reality (again) ? Just a question to ponder...what can be on the other side of their cancerian lack...what could have happened to their capr. end of the equation?

The natural cancer, the balancing part of the equation (that is simply the inner natural knowledge that we are a child of the Divine, while capr. is the other side of the equation which tells us that ALL around us are also from the Divine therefore we have serious responsibility towards them) so when cancer the personal sense of being "important" has been dried out they will exclude themselves without even knowing it...this is what happens in essence when the axis is distorted FROM the capr. end....

While those who leading these kinds of societies are the very opposite: let's just look one example like G.W. Bush and lets's examine this from this point of view: in his chart we can see the very underlying reasons as what had happened all along the way in the patriarchy: the VERY OPPOSITE end has been enlarged so enormously that it left absolute zero social awareness and responsibility. He has moon in the 3rd conj. neptune; of course he thinks he is a direct descendent of the divine...problem is that the person thinks ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY THEY ARE divine descendent and nobody else! That's what the lack of capr. produces....Cancer, moon is about the self the ego. His cancer falls in the 12th house! The same repeating pattern it is so deeply ingrained in his consciousness he doesn’t even know it anymore. Then alas, there is saturn (also conj. to lucifer!) in the 12th in cancer: he feels he has NO other responsibility than what his immediate family tells him and above all what his egocentric emotional needs are about. It became a total ABSOLUTE to him. He feels he has an absolute god given right to all that....and of course capr. falls to his 6th house! All responsibility has been totally denied and his life would need so much improvement in this area BUT he has no idea with that sat. conj. lucifer in the 12th in cancer. NO sense of capr. no sense of RESPONSIBILITY remained in the soul whatso ever. Lets look at his 10th house: aries cusp and taurus in it. Are we surprised? it is all about self interest AT ALL COST ..meaning of course all cost for the social sphere that suppose to serve (10th house) his individual needs. And yet he feels his individual desires are the very valid way to operate in the social sphere...Delusion attached to moon and cancer. Result being capr. is totally LACKING in his consciousness.

In essence THAT'S THE REAL ISSUE in patriarchy all the way along.  While on the other hand the slaves, the servants (and women in general!) for the last few thousands years have been conditioned to have an absolutely enlarged unhealthy sense of capr. to the extent of totally ruining their personal sense of emotional awareness regarding themselves....

So my question is: do we need to forgive them forgive their distorted sense of capr? Or do we need to forgive the out of proportion cancer in those who run our world during patriarchy?

For to me, it is the immature, unreasonable demanding, boundariless CHILD in them the enlarged stupid little EGO what has grown out of proportion and killed any sense of real carp. in them their original natural sense of RESPONSIBILITY within the time and space creation with a structure that supposed to support ALL...not just them.

The structure that has been created in this way is cancer-based. Not capricorn based. That's the real difference between patriarchy and matriarchy. There is no responsibility in patriarchy and there is natural responsibility in matriarchy. Only applying natural responsibility the senses can be used correctly with their full intensity....the divine or spiritual approach is ALWAYS THE OPPOSITE than the relative earth experience or structure....It is indeed very important to apply self discipline (capr.) in patriarchy BECAUSE in reality we live in a cancerian out of proportion reality.
In a capr. based= social awareness and responsibility based society sharing and equality isn't even a notion: it is so obvious it doesn't need to be talked about. Of course we are all equal on the time and space reality of course we are ALL children of the divine....responsibility for the whole simply comes out of this. Society itself proves it via simply living that time and space reality within the commonly shared structure of being RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL. When everybody is naturally responsible there is not even a notion for responsibility. It just is. People when conform to THAT what will they learn? Will that diminish one's ego and enlarge the other? Or will that actually teach the right thing for the children via simple example that can consciously perceived and doesn't even need so much pondering for it is so obvious. You can ruin a tree if you want its fruits the next season. You can't kill all the animals for they are part of our earth (saturn!) family and we'll have nothing to eat then. It is all simple as long as society is based on a shared responsibility which includes all who live in that time and space reality.

When we live by that capricornian reality it becomes so obvious that we have a common root, a common source, a common mother who takes care of us. Spirituality in a capr. reality will always be MOTHER centered. Capr. points to cancer, the divine origin the mother the life giver of all. It is shared by all in that reality....it is the OTHER SIDE of the equations. That's what completes the earth (saturn, capr. time and space, creation in a form) reality when it is in balance it reaches back to it's origin to it's simple source the life giving power, the "mother" of all which lives in a from. It is experienced via the emotions within a healthy, responsibility based structure. Emotions can be accessed by the senses indeed. That was in essence the matriarchy's way for COMPLETION in a truly earthly (capricorn) reality...cancer in its highest form was the spiritual essence that completed this structure. It isn't cancer based it is cancer REACHED.


As for the patriarchy we have the very opposite here: the cancerian tantrum, immature childish demand coming out as a rage that one’s own egocentric needs must be met at ALL COST....
Perceiving oneself with no social awareness as a divine child and based on that sense thinking it is the one and only divine child...there is no sharing and no responsibility when ONE person deluding itself to personify something like that...and what our societies based on if not that? This is cancer based, EXCLUSION based structure. Cancer in itself without the balancing awareness of capr. is just like that. The personal sense of importance, the emotional and otherwise needs etc. take totally over the ego who is now identifying itself with being the one and only "divine"....within a protective shelter......everybody else is outside of its "divine shield" except maybe a few family members who of course believe in the same.....

Just one simple example; don’t even has to be a royal family, just a middle class family somewhere 150 years ago...a little kid of the family has a tantrum at an adult servant for whatever reason...what was the result? Who had to apologise? The child who is the "master" or the adult who had done nothing but serving that family day and night usually for all of its life....who had the upper hand and why? Who had any sense of responsibility and who were conditioned to never have any? Who is out of proportion cancer and who is out of proportion capr here?
And that’s just one tiny miny example....I let the rest to your imagination:-)

If we think it is capr. who needs forgiveness that would mean we don't even question this reality in essence, we out of "compassion" forgive the servant and allow it to continue to serve instead of firing it...or killing it a few hundreds years backward in time....
 
Capr. is about work...who done the work basically ALL the work on this planet for the last few thousands of years? Our leaders or the people, the slaves, the servants, the wives, and then so called “lower class” (well after they were liberated from being slaves)

We are living in an upside down reality...it is NOT CAPR. that leads this world it is actually CANCER...the enlarged out of proportion sick unhealthy cancer/ego of a few who rely on their ability to manipulate and enslave the rest ....a structure that serves nothing but that few cancer (ego) on the very top while the WHOLE STRUCTURE the time and space reality is falling apart...what's falling apart is capricorn....the EARTH reality and its OVERALL STRUCTURE....look around, the climate, the animals, the trees, the land...what is that if not the original capricorn earth structure?
And for what? For a few stupid enlarged egos who wanted to replace the original capricorn order the social and earth awareness with their egocentric importance based structure...that's where it leads when there is no responsibility when everything is about one's own emotional needs........

 I think capr. needs something very different than forgiveness...it needs to be PLACED BACK TO WHERE IT BELONGS...TO LEAD SOCIETY WITH TRUE RESPONSIBILITY (and that's never one person via capr. it is always but always shared by others who have a real developed sense of social responsibility for ALL others) ...and eventually replace the dangerous, stupid immature egos who got a hold of the world and are killing it and killing their and our shared mother......symbolically and literally as well...

Gees...SORRY this became so long!  Embarrassed Roll Eyes

Love and blessings,
Lia
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