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Author Topic: Chart Practice with Client Feedback: Adina  (Read 5687 times)
Lia
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2009, 01:10 PM »

Hi Ari,

just one important clarification: the 4th house,cancer, moon is the very antitheses of what you assumed...Ii.e  having inner security within....T IS INDEED the evolutionary lesson in it but that comes via embracing its opposite 10th house/ capr....
So in simple terms cancer the 4th house is DEPENDENT on other people in fulfilling it's emotional needs... it comes from that end of the equation so to speak, that other people will fulfill my valid emotional needs...4th house, cancer DOES NOT KNOW in itself that it can fulfill those needs from within that's why the lesson to be learned....it has very very intense emotions and learns through the teaching of those emotions.....that's the evolutionary intent in it ...to arrive at the end to the polarity embracing it.....so we are talking about a soul's evolutionary path to get there....in the past this was not known.....

Otherwise what you said is pretty good!
But i thought this is a key issue to understand relative to the issues here relative to self image and the 4th house and why the soul was stuck in the past patterns...it is BECAUSE it was dependent on other people emotionally....and because of that dependence and need for positive feedback (leo on 4th) it went deeper and deeper into masochism AND DENYING PART OF ITSELF..... even it's evolutionary state was hidden remember? Trying to compensate (sag in 7th) to eventually somehow get what it needed, acceptance and love....of course that's a very valid need but what happens when we have a misunderstanding in our consciousness and trying to get it via masochism for example and via denying part of ourselves? Funny thing is even if we have some sort of love is it for ourselves or is it for the denial? Are we accepted and loved when we have  some sort of "love" for something deep down we know it is not really "us"....for a while we may fool ourselves of course...we may deny the actual reality (this is what the soul also has done of course that's part of masochism)

Actually there is a real trick in evolution which I observed via many many clients past and present lives...i.e. if we were able to get any valid needs met on a mistaken way, would we not believe it is all fine? :-) we would keep doing it.....wouldn't we? :-) It is the fact that it does not bring what we hoped it would that propels us out of something......Think about it....

So what happened in this soul's history relative to its emotional needs as it was trying to fulfil them in a mistaken way? Were things going better or worst do you think?

Also another aspect of perceiving sat. and moon in the 4th: it is like if the emotional "gas pedal" and the "break" both pushed in full on at the same time ....what's going to happen to our vehicle when we do that?......the "vehicle" of course is the emotional body....4th house....then lets remember that these symbols are conscious very conscious yet pluto is also there which isn't conscious yet the whole thing is about to get there at one point and metamorphose the overall consciousness of the soul...that's the aim....there have been attempts of course to embrace the n.node earlier the square tells it....

Also wanted to say it is great how you perceive a lot of things right about the soul's overall dynamics and abilities! So go for it add these bits and try to go perhaps one step a time....like what this or that could cause to consciousness and what kind of behaviour compensation etc. was the result.....that the soul employed and where did that lead....like lets try to understand why was the soul hiding within a consensus environment for example?
...and then what may have happened when it tried to show itself time to time?  Huh

Adina,
if you are around and have the energy it would be great to hear your thoughts! I really didn't mean to "lead" this conversation just couldn't help but correct the misunderstandings in between.......

So please, if you can jump in!  Grin
Hope you are well enough for that...?

Much love and blessings,
Lia





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Deva
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2009, 12:33 PM »

Hi, I wanted to add a dynamic I saw in this this chart as well. In the context of Pluto in Leo/4th house and all the other planets in Leo/4th house and the South Node in Scorpio in the 6th house I feel that her natural nature is now a source of guilt in and of itself-i.e- she has taken in conditioning patterns that will invalidate her natural nature and this has become a source of trauma (Uranus inconjunction that was stated earlier, and Venus in cap/8th house). With Venus in capricorn in the 8th house the respression of her own natural needs and nature created a repression of her emotional body in general. This is what I feel has been stated by Lia but I wanted to make the point that because of this guilt/past trauma that is unresolved it will lead to her not being able to accept aknowledgement or validation by others who do see and understand who she is at a Soul level (PLuto in Leo/4th creates a compulsive need for recongition and validation externally). She will undermine this type of validation because of the inner inferiority that is in place. With JUpiter/Sun in Sag/7th and South Node in Scorpio in the 6th house interpretation of the external feedback she is getting is critical. In a negative application she could hear (Venus in Cap/8th house) others has being judgmenal or overly critical of her when this is not the case. The point within this is that untill she learns to validate and accept herself as she is her natural nature cannot heal, and the dynamic of compensation (Sag/7th house Sun and Jupiter) will be maintained. I wanted to add these bottom lines for feedback and to summerize what I feel Lia has been stating as bottom lines within the chart.
Thanks again for posting this chart!
Deva
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adina
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2009, 09:44 PM »

Hi all. I'm so sorry for the delay in feedback, but the cage has been even less cooperative than usual. Sigh. Just comes with the territory at this point, but it does slow down everything I try to do.  Sad   Lia, please don't worry about taking the "lead." It's a good thing you did, considering how unpredictable my situation/health is from day to day and sometimes hour to hour.  Talk about learning to live in the moment!  LOL

I SOOO appreciate all the analysis so far; everyone's doing a great job! And you've given me a LOT of material to respond to. So I plan to get started tomorrow (Monday) and will try to go thru it in some kind of orderly fashion, in spite of my current TR Neptune challenges.   Grin  Roll Eyes

Thanks again to you all!  This is a neat experience for me, too!

God bless,
Adina
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ari moshe
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« Reply #18 on: Jun 03, 2009, 10:49 AM »

hey adina, i cant wait to hear what you have to say! i'm really enjoying your blog btw, i look forward to more.

my mind and emotions are feeling boggled, so im going to take a step back and listen more than talk right now. (saturn is squaring my sag sn gemini nn!!  Huh) but one question i have right now is how the sag archetype relates to compensation- and in particular, in this chart how do you know to read it that way?

thank you
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adina
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 03, 2009, 12:22 PM »

Thanks for your kind words, Ari!  

I’m working on a larger response, but in answer to your question here about compensation, since Jup/Sag/9th house has to do with belief systems, to ME, the issue of compensation can occur when one’s belief system lies outside, or is contrary to, the consensus beliefs, which, for the most part, tend to be a “one size fits all” phenomenon. Most of us (until HIGHLY evolved) can feel very alone, very excluded, and thus, very insecure (even to the point of feeling our very survival is at stake) when we don’t “fit,” so we adopt an APPEARANCE, a MASK of “normalcy” by adapting/adopting (outwardly) TO the belief systems of the consensus. The compensation could take many forms, of course.

In my chart, with it in the 7th house, it’s really graphic, because it’s thru Libra/7th house) that we compare ourselves to others; we try on different “hats” to discover who we are and are not. In relation to belief systems, then, specifically it meant hiding who I truly was, what I thought, believed, etc., because in prior lives it had actually been deadly  (Sun/Jupiter trine Pluto in 4, plus Jupiter ruling Cool to express what I actually DID believe, and/or know from personal experience (Jup/Sag/9th).  You can also see from the 4th house connection, how family belief systems and demands were part of that persecution. We can take this particular aspect farther by drawing in the Pallas in Pisces in the 10th, which squares the nodes, Mercury AND the Jupiter/Sun, opposes the Saturn/Moon in Leo and Mars in Virgo in 4, and trines the Uranus in Gem in 2, which inconjucts the s node Mercury, ruled by the Pluto, which trines the Sun/Jup. Another form the compensation took was to do work that “society” (Cap on 9 ruled by Saturn in 4, etc) thought appropriate, rather than what I wanted, again reflecting the “survival” issue.  There's more, but this is a good start.  AND, as always, seeing this sag as compensation would go back to observed context, i.e., talking with the client.

Does this make sense to you and help, Ari?
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2009, 12:26 PM by adina » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 03, 2009, 02:13 PM »

absolutely, thank you.
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Kristin
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 03, 2009, 05:37 PM »

hi adina..hello all..

Been thinking lots about you Adina...I hope I am not repeating myself here but wanted to share a few things..First of all, I remember hearing from Wolf that it takes an Extreme to counteract an Extreme..and extremity is 7th house/Libra where Adina's Sun and Sun's ruler sits. For example, in order to finally have the courage to face the judgement or an extreme authoritarian and walk on anyway may create a dynamic where a Soul is born into a situation where everything is so extreme that you cannot help but Know who you are..by observing the exact opposite..it is as if everything is in opposition to what feels true for you..Souls not only set these lives up in this way for karmic reasons but also to ensure that they blast out of a repeating dyanmic that has caused too much delay in the growth of the Soul. The pain of that kind of living lie is so harsh that anything would be better ie the famous xpression, " How did I end up in this family?" It takes crazy courage to find your way out of an abusive past and then to look at why you were there in the first place. But often times with a prominent 4th house, the Soul is literally ON THEIR own, so thrown back on themselves and as weak as they may feel, they are the strongest thing thay have got. I remember in Yogananda's book when he is a child and his mother dies and he is BEYOND heartbroken, Deva shares this story in her new book, that this had to occur in order to more fully access the heavenly mother.. he has a strong 4th/10th axis..he wrote about the event in his book as if it were yesterday..still so in the emotion of the loss..still so in the emotion of the great love for his mom. So even someone like him, so evolved, so fated to lead people back to the natural God, experiences this heartbreaking loss, throwing him back into himself. The 4th house is the most vulnerable place on the wheel because we stay so in our human emotion there..so forced into human emotions, so needing to feel secure and safe like a child, yet rarely feeling secure. The 4th house is about feeling totally naked, stripped down in every way and yet that nakedness and vulnerbaility will lead you back to God through the natural water trinity..it starts there..it must start there..then moves to Scorpio..Soul..then to Pisces..Spirit...the only way HOME is via this path.  I see this life for you Adina as one where your soul committed, Venus in Cap 8th..trining Mars in Virgo..to purge all the impurities that you have carried with you, the impurites of the past..SN 6th in Scorpio..ruler 4th..also to purge the heart wrenching guilt you feel about something you may have done..perhaps setting up dymanics where you felt so respsonsible for something that occurred that you swore you would never allow yourself to feel good again..it is like you made a vow of suffering....and of course that is not what God wants for you..to personally take yourself out of the game... but simply to learn, to forgive yourself, your Soul..NN in 12th..ruler in Cap in the 8th..forgive your Soul and release the guilt.. and to make adjustments, 6th house SN..and then to find your natural way back to God...sun/Jupiter in Sag balalmic trining your 4th house Pluto, whcih rules the SN.your natural relationship with God...which YOU HAVE DONE so beautifully..Your Pluto in the 4th literally means to me an opportunity to purge the impurities, and we all have them..(it must happen for any Soul evolving through the 1st stage spiritual - A virgo stage of humility and service..karma yoga in the 1st stage spiritual) the ruler of your SN in Scorpio in the 6th is that Pluto....to purge and purify the darkness..the personal judgements, the gravity in your soul..to release the weights... This life I feel was so extreme because your Soul was ready to make a move on. You are done avoiding what must be done.. and as Wolf used to say, if you are not doing the real Soul work, you are just 'marking time'..you have come here to do some serious purging and healing, really not many moments to rest, and with that it always is accompanied by physical pain..The emotional pain also fueled the physical complications...6th house/4th house..This is called the HEALING CRISIS. It is always hard for me to wrap my head and heart around human suffering, although "the soul does create its reality and it does create what it needs in order to evolve", but much of your own suffering may have been taken to unnecessary heights, self inflicted suffering, your Soul feeling like you 'deserved' it..6th house SN..Mars in Virgo, Saturn conjunct Moon in the 4th..etc.
SO it takes an extreme to counteract an extreme  7th house Sun.Jup in Sag IS a theme OF CALIBRATING THE SELF, RECOVERING THE NATURAL BELIEFS VERSUS THE FORCED FED BELEIFS OF OTHERS.. AND TO CALIBRATE THE SOUL..VENUS NATURALLY RULES THE 7TH (CALIBRATION) AND IS IN THE 8TH IN CAP..CALIBRATE THE SOUL..NEW STRUCTURES/COMMITMENTS THAT REFLECT THE NATURAL YOU, A SOUL WHO NATURALLY GIVES AND WANTS ONLY TO HELP OTHERS AND SERVE ( SN 6th in Scorpio, humble service, soul worker...ruler Pluto in Leo in the 4th, trining Sun/Jupiter in the 7th - helping others get back to the natural Goddess - leading others back to the truth ) ..THAT IS YOU..
love, kristin
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2009, 09:48 AM by Kristin » Logged
adina
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 04, 2009, 01:12 PM »

Hi Ari. Comments below.

thank you! Now i feel like i finally "got" scorpio in the 6th.

So we're looking at a soul that has learned to see itself as inherantly flawed (6th) based on the nature of it's very desires (sorpio). That naturally created a lot of guilt and thus the need to atone for that guilt.

You got it, Ari: the core operative dynamic of masochism.

Coming back to Pluto- the soul has desired to inhabit it's own security. the problem was, the soul also believed that there was also something wrong with it. in order to establish security, the soul has chosen a family, tribe, hertiage (4th house) that persecuted her for who she is/what she does.

While security is based on the past--what we know--and CAN result in creating and staying in abusive situations, establishing security was not the main reason for creating abusive family situations. That, again, comes from from the masochism, or as Wolf put it, the inner dialogue of a masochist is, "I deserve pain, punishment, suffering, denial, and I don't know why." Until the soul figures out the "why" and then counteracts it, it will continue to create abusive situations. In addition, in a spiritual state of evolution, there's also an element of spiritual masochism (as Lia pointed out), in that this soul also "sacrificed" (n node in 12) to try to help the parents learn something.

This persecution, catalyzed the tendency within the soul to further punish itself. all of life in some way reflected back to the soul the impurity it felt in itself (scorpio 6). The Taurus nn also being squared implies the occasional supression of sexuality all together, being celibate or trying to be pure. but ultimately being that what is supressed becomes distorted- her sexuality HAD to express itself in some way, and this is where we can read the pattern of masochism (scorpio 6).

Yes, and that include lifetimes of being a nun/monk, etc. But then take it beyond just the sexuality. There are many aspects/dimensions to each and every soul, as well as reflected in each planet, aspect, etc., so the masochism comes from a variety of experiences/sources and colors every aspect of the life, or CAN.

Quote
4) Every "entrapment" is always with no EXCEPTION based on an underlying misunderstand. Deeply ingrained in the soul. Can you unravel what could this particular soul's misunderstanding be here: 6th house s.node in Scorpio: wanting to atone for something that is fundamentally inherent to the soul (scorpio). What's going to happen when we try to do that? Is it not distortion? And what capr. venus and saturn in 4th symbolises in this case? What has been distorted here? Why?

So adding to what I just said- the intense degree of sensitivity and awareness of how her culture and family judged sexuality and love. her very nature as a sexual being has been distorted.

Again, it goes beyond her nature as a sexual being.... it's about who she intrinsically is at a soul level that has been denied and judged by others, leading to her own inner distortion of herself. I think you picked up on this somewhat in your next paragraph.

As a female in past lives she has been an authority of sorts that helped others with healing- using knowledge and by being naturally connected to feminine consciousness: herbs, sexuality etc (venus in cap 8th functioning through scorpio 6th). Also saturn moon in leo in the 4th= matriarch. At some point or another her practices, and her role was no longer acceptable by society. The unconditional love and acceptance became judgement and persecution. This has served the purpose for her soul to detach from relying on others to feel loved and find that within (ppp), setting the stage for a long evolutionary journey.

Good, Ari. One manifestation of this was at least one lifetime during the Inquisition in which this soul was tortured for speaking in terms contrary to consensus beliefs and opinions. One particular lifetime this happened was in France (Leo). Now, what do you suppose THAT could do to a soul? What effect would it have? And how would you identify it (planets/aspects/houses, etc) in the birth chart?
  
I'll stop here for now and await further response. Thank you for this guidance. I hope this is meaningful and educational for other forum members as well!

Ari, thank you for participating! You're doing quite well. Now, keep going. Look at some of the other aspects/lessons of a 4th house pluto; e.g., the issue of anima/animus, as well as more about HOW to create the inner emotional security besides just detaching from what others' think. Do you have Wolf's first Pluto book or Deva's new book? Either one or both of these would help you expand on te archetypes.
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2009, 01:31 PM by adina » Logged
adina
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« Reply #23 on: Jun 05, 2009, 09:56 AM »

Hey Lia, I am finally tackling all these terrific posts, this wonderful analysis, piece by piece, so..... below.....


Hi Ari,

just one important clarification: the 4th house,cancer, moon is the very antitheses of what you assumed...Ii.e  having inner security within....T IS INDEED the evolutionary lesson in it but that comes via embracing its opposite 10th house/ capr....
So in simple terms cancer the 4th house is DEPENDENT on other people in fulfilling it's emotional needs... it comes from that end of the equation so to speak, that other people will fulfill my valid emotional needs...4th house, cancer DOES NOT KNOW in itself that it can fulfill those needs from within that's why the lesson to be learned....it has very very intense emotions and learns through the teaching of those emotions.....that's the evolutionary intent in it ...to arrive at the end to the polarity embracing it.....so we are talking about a soul's evolutionary path to get there....in the past this was not known.....

Right Lia, plus a few other points I think we can bring in both in general and specific to this chart; i.e., all those 4th house planets square the nodes... with the south node being in the 6th/Virgo house, and Mars also IN Virgo, so we have the additional dynamic - the INTENSIFICATION - of expecting emotional security from others, one way being by denying the very emotions themselves, again leading to and intensifying those emotions (thru intense experiences) in order to get the soul, the ego's attention, so to speak. And another dynamic of the cancer archetype is to focus on the past, so you can see how this dynamic adds TO the masochism... i.e., looking backward all the time helps keep the negative tapes in the head rolling along, and also keeps those emotions at somewhat of a standstill until something blows them out of the water.  We also have to look to the PP (10th)  in order to metamorphose the emotional body as well.  So to Ari and all, what would that look like? What needs to happen thru the 10th house, in addition to what's been said here, to effect emotional security?

Otherwise what you said is pretty good!
But i thought this is a key issue to understand relative to the issues here relative to self image and the 4th house and why the soul was stuck in the past patterns...it is BECAUSE it was dependent on other people emotionally....and because of that dependence and need for positive feedback (leo on 4th) it went deeper and deeper into masochism AND DENYING PART OF ITSELF..... even it's evolutionary state was hidden remember? Trying to compensate (sag in 7th) to eventually somehow get what it needed, acceptance and love....of course that's a very valid need but what happens when we have a misunderstanding in our consciousness and trying to get it via masochism for example and via denying part of ourselves? Funny thing is even if we have some sort of love is it for ourselves or is it for the denial? Are we accepted and loved when we have  some sort of "love" for something deep down we know it is not really "us"....for a while we may fool ourselves of course...we may deny the actual reality (this is what the soul also has done of course that's part of masochism)

Yes again, Lia. I also want to point out that the compensation is tied to denying part of the self. Also consider that this can create some natural guilt because the soul knows it's not being honest with itself. So again, this is all reflected in the natural grand cross. And using the orbs that Wolf did, my Mars in Virgo is also square the Jupiter/Sun.

Actually there is a real trick in evolution which I observed via many many clients past and present lives...i.e. if we were able to get any valid needs met on a mistaken way, would we not believe it is all fine? :-) we would keep doing it.....wouldn't we? :-) It is the fact that it does not bring what we hoped it would that propels us out of something......Think about it....

Too true, Lia. As horrible as something may be, if there's a payoff, we stay put. Also, in this case, consider again that Cancer/moon/4th can focus on the past, so it's "easy" to stay right where we were.

So what happened in this soul's history relative to its emotional needs as it was trying to fulfill them in a mistaken way? Were things going better or worst do you think?

Also another aspect of perceiving sat. and moon in the 4th: it is like if the emotional "gas pedal" and the "break" both pushed in full on at the same time ....what's going to happen to our vehicle when we do that?......the "vehicle" of course is the emotional body....4th house....then lets remember that these symbols are conscious very conscious yet pluto is also there which isn't conscious yet the whole thing is about to get there at one point and metamorphose the overall consciousness of the soul...that's the aim....there have been attempts of course to embrace the n.node earlier the square tells it....

Also wanted to say it is great how you perceive a lot of things right about the soul's overall dynamics and abilities! So go for it add these bits and try to go perhaps one step a time....like what this or that could cause to consciousness and what kind of behaviour compensation etc. was the result.....that the soul employed and where did that lead....like lets try to understand why was the soul hiding within a consensus environment for example?
...and then what may have happened when it tried to show itself time to time?  Huh

Adina,
if you are around and have the energy it would be great to hear your thoughts! I really didn't mean to "lead" this conversation just couldn't help but correct the misunderstandings in between.......

So please, if you can jump in!  Grin
Hope you are well enough for that...?

Much love and blessings,
Lia

Great questions and observations, Lia. I'm leaving some of them so others can add to the analysis if they wish, because you've asked some good ones to point the way to uncovering the dynamics! Thanks so much for all this!

God bless, love, adina





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adina
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 07, 2009, 11:05 AM »

Little by little I'm getting there with the responses...    Smiley

Deva, I thought I'd just copy and paste your entry with my responses inserted (in blue) where appropriate. Thank you SOOO much for your feedback/analysis!

So, you started out with the following....


Hi, I wanted to add a dynamic I saw in this this chart as well. In the context of Pluto in Leo/4th house and all the other planets in Leo/4th house and the South Node in Scorpio in the 6th house I feel that her natural nature is now a source of guilt in and of itself-i.e- she has taken in conditioning patterns that will invalidate her natural nature and this has become a source of trauma (Uranus inconjunction that was stated earlier, and Venus in cap/8th house). With Venus in capricorn in the 8th house the repression of her own natural needs and nature created a repression of her emotional body in general. This is what I feel has been stated by Lia

Deva, I agree, and this is an excellent way to phrase it.

but I wanted to make the point that because of this guilt/past trauma that is unresolved it will lead to her not being able to accept aknowledgement or validation by others who do see and understand who she is at a Soul level (PLuto in Leo/4th creates a compulsive need for recognition and validation externally).

The way I experienced this was the desire for someone to see who I ACtually am. It wasn’t so much just a need for recognition as such, if you understand what I mean. Needless to say, with that 4th house stellium, I didn’t GET that external validation, at least not from my immediate family. It DID take someone who could see and validate me at a SOUL level (i.e., JWG  Smiley ) and then give me the WAYS to being building my own inner security, to validate myself from within, etc.

I'll also add here, that early on in my counseling with JWG, I expressed my thoughts that I understood how someone's ego could get out of hand, too full of itself, etc. and I was concerned about that (Leo moon in 4), and he very firmly told me that I had done that number on myself before and to stop it, that the Leo moon (in balsamic conjunction to Mars in Virgo) was, in fact, there in order to re-inflate my ego, and if it got out of hand, so be it. At some point it would correct itself.  Smiley Now WHEN have you EVER heard another astrologer say THAT about LEO?!  LOL

She will undermine this type of validation because of the inner inferiority that is in place.

Yep, but within the above caveat (JWG)…and one way it manifested was thru the inability to even accept a sincere compliment. This really is the seeming paradox within this dynamic.... the desire to be validated, recognized for who I actually am and what I can do, and at the same time not accept it when I was because the damage to who I actually am was so deep.

I'd also like to add that with my Merc also in Scorp, conjunct the south node and square the 4th house planets - but specific to the square to Saturn, I had to UNlearn all kinds of negative messages about myself, including the incessant, but very subliminal, messages that I was stupid. For me, part of the unlearning took place by going back to school (university) when my kids were grown and earning my bachelors degree in English. Although I maintained a four-point for that 3 1/2 years, I had to overcome the 2.93 I had when I left school back in the 60s! LOL 

With Jupiter/Sun in Sag/7th and South Node in Scorpio in the 6th house interpretation of the external feedback she is getting is critical. In a negative application she could hear (Venus in Cap/8th house) others has being judgmenal or overly critical of her when this is not the case.  

Yes, Deva, exactly. And until I started studying EA, as well as learn to validate myself from within this dynamic was not even conscious. Once it became conscious I could at least take one step back and try to view it objectively. I have made a lot of progress in this area, but since healing of this dynamic is still new within this lifetime, I know I have to be very careful not to slip back into past patterning; i.e., I have to be consciously aware that I may take something someone says in a way they didn’t intend it. But I’m definitely making progress!  

The point within this is that untill she learns to validate and accept herself as she is her natural nature cannot heal, and the dynamic of compensation (Sag/7th house Sun and Jupiter) will be maintained.
 
Yes, indeed, and as I recovered who I am…. or as JWG once put it “recover and redesign myself according to natural law (Sun/Jup in sag)…..THEN the  compensation was jettisoned!  Yay!  If we take into account that Jupiter is my final depositor… and therefore EVERYTHING else in my chart is ‘filtered” thru that, then we can also see how crucial this lesson was/is!

I wanted to add these bottom lines for feedback and to summerize what I feel Lia has been stating as bottom lines within the chart.
Thanks again for posting this chart!
Deva

Thank YOU again, love and blessings, adina
« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2009, 08:31 AM by adina » Logged
adina
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« Reply #25 on: Jun 11, 2009, 09:27 AM »

Hi Kristin, I'm so sorry it took me so long to respond to your wonderful analysis. But finally, here it is. Thank you SO much for doing this!  I copied your post below and inserted my responses where appropriate in a different color font. 

hi adina..hello all..

Been thinking lots about you Adina...I hope I am not repeating myself here but wanted to share a few things..First of all, I remember hearing from Wolf that it takes an Extreme to counteract an Extreme..and extremity is 7th house/Libra where Adina's Sun and Sun's ruler sits. For example, in order to finally have the courage to face the judgement or an extreme authoritarian and walk on anyway may create a dynamic where a Soul is born into a situation where everything is so extreme that you cannot help but Know who you are..by observing the exact opposite..it is as if everything is in opposition to what feels true for you..Souls not only set these lives up in this way for karmic reasons but also to ensure that they blast out of a repeating dyanmic that has caused too much delay in the growth of the Soul.

That’s exACTly the kind of situation I created. Indeed, it really was like what Wolf used to call the “hand grenade in the steel box!” I really had to blow that sucker OPEN! I think you’ve brought up a very important function of Libra – the extremity – that’s pertinent both individually AND collectively. When we look at history, it seems that events always play out this way – the pendulum swings so far one direction that it finally has to swing just as far the other direction before it can settle back into the middle. Reminds me of the  “point – counterpoint” skits on the old SNL shows!

The pain of that kind of living lie is so harsh that anything would be better ie the famous xpression, " How did I end up in this family?"

I really got a good laugh out of that one, Kristin. I can’t TELL you how many times I asked that exact question – and THEN I found EA!

 It takes crazy courage to find your way out of an abusive past and then to look at why you were there in the first place. But often times with a prominent 4th house, the Soul is literally ON THEIR own, so thrown back on themselves and as weak as they may feel, they are the strongest thing they have got.

This is another excellent point, Kristin, i.e., first, the fact that I literally WAS on my own –  especially for emotional and psychological survival. And I think you’ve nailed it with your assessment that one can FEEL weak even while having to BE the strongest person necessary. From my experience, there are more 4th house plutos who experience life this way than there are ones who have the loving, supportive families.

I remember in Yogananda's book when he is a child and his mother dies and he is BEYOND heartbroken, Deva shares this story in her new book, that this had to occur in order to more fully access the heavenly mother.. he has a strong 4th/10th axis..he wrote about the event in his book as if it were yesterday..still so in the emotion of the loss..still so in the emotion of the great love for his mom. So even someone like him, so evolved, so fated to lead people back to the natural God, experiences this heartbreaking loss, throwing him back into himself.

I too remember this story, which is beautiful and touching, but also, for me, it’s encouraging as another example of not needing to be perfect in order to evolve, to know God, etc.

The 4th house is the most vulnerable place on the wheel because we stay so in our human emotion there..so forced into human emotions, so needing to feel secure and safe like a child, yet rarely feeling secure. The 4th house is about feeling totally naked, stripped down in every way and yet that nakedness and vulnerability will lead you back to God through the natural water trinity..it starts there..it must start there..then moves to Scorpio..Soul..then to Pisces..Spirit...the only way HOME is via this path.

Absolutely! There is no way around, over or under. You have to plow right through those emotions and feel every darn one of them in order to MAKE it thru. AND you can feel quite "crazy" when the same emotions - the ones you THOUGHT you'd already dealt with - resurface again and again - just in different ways and in different circumstances.

 I see this life for you Adina as one where your soul committed, Venus in Cap 8th..trining Mars in Virgo..to purge all the impurities that you have carried with you, the impurites of the past..SN 6th in Scorpio..ruler 4th..also to purge the heart wrenching guilt you feel about something you may have done..perhaps setting up dymanics where you felt so respsonsible for something that occurred that you swore you would never allow yourself to feel good again..it is like you made a vow of suffering....

Yep, once again, as described in the Pluto books, “I DESERVE pain, punishment, suffering, denial, and I don’t know why.”  But with the EA paradigm and wolf’s counseling over the years, I got a good start that has finally now blossoming into an entirely new and different mind set.

and of course that is not what God wants for you..to personally take yourself out of the game... but simply to learn, to forgive yourself, your Soul..NN in 12th..ruler in Cap in the 8th..forgive your Soul and release the guilt.. and to make adjustments, 6th house SN..and then to find your natural way back to God...sun/Jupiter in Sag balalmic trining your 4th house Pluto, whcih rules the SN.your natural relationship with God...which YOU HAVE DONE so beautifully..

Thank you for those kind words, Kristin. You’ve brought out an important part of that process with the Jupiter/Sag archetype, and redesigning myself according to NATURAL law… NATURAL principles, for that’s really the only way (in MY book) to really eradicate those deep feelings that one is inherently “flawed.”

Your Pluto in the 4th literally means to me an opportunity to purge the impurities, and we all have them..(it must happen for any Soul evolving through the 1st stage spiritual - A virgo stage of humility and service..karma yoga in the 1st stage spiritual) the ruler of your SN in Scorpio in the 6th is that Pluto....to purge and purify the darkness..the personal judgements, the gravity in your soul..to release the weights...

Yes, yes, yes!

This life I feel was so extreme because your Soul was ready to make a move on.

You got THAT right! And yet, in ORDER to move on, I had to go back and repeat SO much... to bring it to a head and then jettison it!

You are done avoiding what must be done.. and as Wolf used to say, if you are not doing the real Soul work, you are just 'marking time'..you have come here to do some serious purging and healing, really not many moments to rest,

… REST?  What’s that?!    Grin

 and with that it always is accompanied by physical pain..The emotional pain also fueled the physical complications...6th house/4th house..This is called the HEALING CRISIS. It is always hard for me to wrap my head and heart around human suffering, although "the soul does create its reality and it does create what it needs in order to evolve", but much of your own suffering may have been taken to unnecessary heights, self inflicted suffering, your Soul feeling like you 'deserved' it..6th house SN..Mars in Virgo, Saturn conjunct Moon in the 4th..etc.

Yes, again, another important point, related to masochism – self-inflicted. I used to tell people I got even better at beating myself up (emotionally, psychologically, etc.) than my parents were.  I picked up where they (and others before them in prior lives) left off and absolutely RAN with it. But in the end, it DID serve the purpose of blowing the masochism out of the water!

SO it takes an extreme to counteract an extreme  7th house Sun.Jup in Sag IS a theme OF CALIBRATING THE SELF, RECOVERING THE NATURAL BELIEFS VERSUS THE FORCED FED BELEIFS OF OTHERS.. AND TO CALIBRATE THE SOUL..VENUS NATURALLY RULES THE 7TH (CALIBRATION) AND IS IN THE 8TH IN CAP..CALIBRATE THE SOUL..NEW STRUCTURES/COMMITMENTS THAT REFLECT THE NATURAL YOU, A SOUL WHO NATURALLY GIVES AND WANTS ONLY TO HELP OTHERS AND SERVE ( SN 6th in Scorpio, humble service, soul worker...ruler Pluto in Leo in the 4th, trining Sun/Jupiter in the 7th - helping others get back to the natural Goddess - leading others back to the truth ) ..THAT IS YOU..

Well, you nailed the dynamics, and I like your use of the word “calibrate.” It’s very fitting here. 

And thank you again for your kind words here, and your time and effort in offering this wonderful analysis.

God bless, k, love, adina


love, kristin


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Kristin
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« Reply #26 on: Jun 11, 2009, 10:13 AM »

HI everyone,

Just a post here to let you know that Adina was interviewed on Guiding Stars, yesterday, Wed June 10. She shared about her personal experience in this transitioning. Her interview will be in the archives within the next day or so and can be accessed from this link.
http://www.healthylife.net/RadioShow/archiveGS.htm

Peace,

Kristin

P.S. Thanks for the feedback Adina on the above. I sure love your Sag spirit. Even at a time like this it still shines SO BRIGHT!
« Last Edit: Jun 11, 2009, 10:22 AM by Kristin » Logged
Lia
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« Reply #27 on: Jun 15, 2009, 04:01 PM »

Hi Adina and all,

just wanted to share how joyful it was to listen to you on Kristin's radio show!
Thank you for sharing and thank you for the beautifully put messages...indeed our transiton is the (re) birth on the astral plan...and it is very true how our current cultures dismiss this transition and how the mostly christian derived limited 'one life' view diminishes death into something almost 'nonexistent' and undesirable...so that people are left many times alone and abandonded just because they are transiting the 'other door'.....
I know (and I am glad) that it isn't the case for you and I am sure your words and sharing can help and inspire many who either themselves around the transition or someone close to them....

So thank you for all that......as Kristin said: your spirit indeed shines through!

Love and blessings,

Lia
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adina
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« Reply #28 on: Jun 15, 2009, 05:07 PM »

Thank you BOTH for your very kind words! Kristin, you made it very easy because you're such a good interviewer!

I personally find it very funny that many "christians" avoid end-of-life issues like the plague, as well as have more difficult letting go. Since they believe in a "hereafter", a "heaven" that is SO much better than life here on earth, I can't for the LIFE of me understand trying to hang on to THIS one so tightly, taking every measure possible to prolong life, no matter what the quality may be.

Anyway, thank you again for your lovely comments. I'm glad you found it useful. And I really hope that everyone can have this kind of gift with their transition; i.e., TIME to wind down, to savor, to reflect, and yes, to grow and expand one's consciousness. I'm not saying I don't have my days, but overall this is the most peaceful I've felt my entire lifetime.

For those interested, I also have a blog about this part of my journey. The entries can be sporadic based on how I feel, but I'm hoping for enough time to share more of the story so others can benefit. It's at www.bluelotusletters.com.  And you can sign up to be notified when I enter a new post.

God bless,
Adina
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Deva
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« Reply #29 on: Jun 16, 2009, 08:53 AM »

Hi Adina, I wanted to say that your feedback has been really helpful for me! Thanks for putting the time into those responses.
Deva
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