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adina
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« Reply #15 on: Jul 27, 2009, 09:36 AM »

The glyph for the Dark Moon Lilith (DML) is a circle with a line through it at an angle of about 1 pm and 7 pm (using a clock for reference). The line goes completely thru and extends beyond the line of the circle on each side. According to what Wolf told me years ago, the Dark Moon Lilith is NOT the same as "Dark Moon W'mat2" in the Solar Fire program, which is the equivalent to the one you're referring to at astrodienst, Stephen. According to Demetra George, Delphine Jay was the astrologer who put out a DML ephemeris. George describes the DML as a "possible second satellite of the Earth, orbiting three times farther away than our Moon, whose existence has precipatated four hundred years of controversy." (Looks like the controversy isn't over!  LOL).

I used to have a copy of Jay's ephemeris, but I seem to have lost it somewhere along the line. I had written down my DML, though, and it was at 10 Libra, while the SF/astrodienst programs show what they say is the DML at 18 Libra.  Hmm...

Maybe Kristin, Lia or Rad could clear this up.
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Lucius
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« Reply #16 on: Jul 28, 2009, 09:22 AM »


Hi all - although I'm pleased I finally figured out how to post an image - it was big & taking up space ...mainly, the only glyph is for black moon lilith which we can see in other charts here - so I deleted it.  I'm hoping someone can post a chart will all three as glyphs!
Also, I'm finding the Waltemath calculations a bit more compelling than Sephariel...does anyone else feel this way?
Thanks!
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2009, 05:47 PM by Lucius » Logged
adina
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« Reply #17 on: Jul 28, 2009, 09:32 AM »

I can't help with an online source, Lucius, but I DID find my Delphine Jay ephemeris, and the Black Moon Lilith for the birth data given is 12 Libra 45. Hope that helps.

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Lucius
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« Reply #18 on: Jul 28, 2009, 09:37 AM »

Sorry if that image is too big...
 Maybe you folks with software can download your chart with an example of asteroid, black & dark liliths....please,...?

I was just about to post & read your recent post, Adina - thanks!...so, for the birth data given, the chart I posted?

I deleted most of this post because it seemed confusing - I'm trying again: 

a.) dark moon - circle with slash through it - this is the 'controversial' moon - Waldemath did original computation of orbit - Sephariel adjusted to astrology & did ephemeris which may have errors.
b.)black moon - crescent moon on top of cross
c.) asteroid lilith - horizontal line with four little lines coming off it

« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2009, 12:34 PM by Lucius » Logged
Lucius
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« Reply #19 on: Jul 28, 2009, 09:44 AM »

Just some information a found & decided to post here....

Dark Moon Lilith
Unlike Black Moon Lilith, Dark Moon Lilith is a real body in the sky, a second Moon to the Earth that doesn't reflect light, hence the name Dark Moon. The glyph for Dark Moon Lilith is a zero with a forward slash running diagonally through it. There is some controversy over whether it is really there since it can only be seen as a spot moving across the Sun. However, there have been sightings since the 1600's as detailed in Delphine Jay's book, Interpreting Lilith, pg. 1-6. Dr. Georges Waltemath, an astronomer, documented it in 1898 and came up with calculations which gave it an orbit of 119 days around the Earth.
The astrologer Sepharial used the Waltemath calculations to come up with an ephemeris but he made errors which caused a difference of anywhere from about 2 to over 40 degrees. Delphine Jay, Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, Mae Ludlum-Wilson and others copied Sepharial's calculations. The original Waltemath calculations can be found in Solar Fire software or Riyal freeware. Many astrologers use the Sepharial calculations with success, but the Waltemath calculations are more accurate. Dark Moon Lilith can be interpreted similarly to the other Liliths. Delphine Jay says Dark Moon Lilith is a place where you must operate impersonally because operating personally there will never be successful.
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Heidi
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2011, 05:27 PM »

Hello everyone,

I've just resurrected this thread after Linda directed Gray here due to some confusion with Lilith from the Synastry and Composite thread, page 6.

I know I am looking at BML since it is the glyph of the crescent moon with the cross at the bottom. My software also calls is the Black Moon Lilith. My confusion is that my software (solar fire) shows BML in John Lennon's chart at 13 degrees Aries whereas the chart posted on the Synastry and Composite thread (page 1) shows it at 27 degrees Pisces. Astro.com plus other web based programs also show it at 13 degrees Aries. My software mentions that it gives the mean position for BML. Does EA by any chance use something different than the mean position?

Blessings,
Heidi

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jasonholley
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2011, 07:22 PM »

Hi Heidi,

EA uses the True Apogee for Black Moon Lilith.  This makes so much sense to me, since the last thing Lilith needs is people trying to "smooth" her out and condition her movements according to some formula!  Smiley

On Solar Fire you can go to Preferences --> Edit Settings, and then click on the "Calculations" tab, there you will find that you can change the setting for calculating the BML if you wish.

Hope that is helpful,

God bless,
Jason
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Heidi
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 01, 2011, 04:55 PM »

Thanks Jason! I'm still on solar fire 5 so it's not giving me the option to change the calculation of BML. But at least I know why I'm seeing a different position now!

Blessings,
Heidi



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