School of Evolutionary Astrology

visit the School of Evolutionary Astrology  web site

Love and evolutionary intentions

Started by Linda, Aug 18, 2011, 05:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Linda

Quote from: Kristin on Aug 18, 2011, 01:04 PM................we discover what was actually going on and the whole facade crumbles. The truth is not always pretty and it certainly has taken the air out of our "˜love' balloons so to speak but it shows us that we must not project our own desires or fantasies onto the client, that we must be impeccably clear and objective in our approach so we can see things exactly for what they are, so we can call a spade a spade,


Hi Kristin, Rad, and everyone

Re:  John and Yoko

I've created this new topic in case anyone would care to contribute their thoughts.  I agree with your above counsel Kristin, and it has certainly taken quite some digging to reveal the truth regarding John and Yoko (see Composites and Synastry thread).  

My question is, with all the Venus/7th house contacts between John and Yoko, and the "apparent" love and affection expressed through the media, was there any REAL love there at all?  Was it only coming from John?  Because Yoko's actions (Pluto/Lucifer) caused havoc, do her evil actions completely negate any love that she ever felt for John?  Can love itself be brushed aside by the Soul as not important enough, or not relevant in a particular lifetime, in order to address evolutionary intentions?  

Real love implies, in some instances, that healing is not required, eg having reached a state of fruition.  I'm now wondering whether real love can exist in parallel with the desire for power and control?

Could love, heart-felt love, magnetic attraction, or sexual attraction be used by the Soul as the initial impulse to get a couple back together....so that the REAL work can begin?  I know every person and couple is unique, and one answer does not fit all, but would be interested in hearing your (or Rad's or anyone's) thoughts on this topic.  

Isn't it ironic that Saturn is exalted in Libra - a real TEST of love.
Love is DEEP (Venus exalted in Pisces).
God/Goddess IS love, and created each Soul.
"Love and the supernatural operate on the same frequencies"  [John Lash].

Many thanks,
Linda


Linda

Quote from: jasonholley on Aug 18, 2011, 07:19 PMAfter all, the neediness that motivated her Soul in a lot of this relationship over lifetimes and the desire to merge with power produces self-centered actions, not loving actions, no matter how lovey-dovey it all looks.  Whereas in John's case, I see loving feelings and feelings of attraction as well, but also more instances of genuine love and loving behaviors -- or better said, that he is more stabilized in a loving state, and therefore his behaviors have more often reflected that especially as he has transitioned into the spiritual state.


Hi Jason!

Thanks so much for your lengthy response, and for sharing your in-depth thoughts and questions on this topic.  Will respond to you at length later...and look forward to the moderators' responses too.

In the meantime, your paragraph above helped clarify a few things, especially your words, "John...is more stabilized in a loving state."  Your sharing in the previous post is excellent, and I will need to read it again, and meditate on these issues more.

Also LOVE your language above in green!   :D 

Love,
Linda

Rad

#2
Hi Jason and Linda,

The phenomena of love comes down to two types of love: conditional and unconditional. This correlation of ...

3) The motivations and intentions for attractions and loving feelings are described by Venus/Taurus/2nd/Libra/7th, Mars/Aries/1st, Pluto/Scorpio/8th; and the planetary residents of and aspects to all of the above; calibrated to the Soul's evolutionary condition.

equals all that is defined by conditional love where love is experienced or expressed as a function of having one's needs met by another. When those needs are not met then once that which was experienced as love with and for another, and visa versa, can change into something quite the opposite.

Unconditional love as we have discussed in our synastry and composite thread with John and Yoko is reflected in the archetypes of the 12th House, Neptune, and of course Pisces. Unconditional love can be experienced and expressed at any evolutionary level or condition. Of course unconditional love is not a function of one's personal needs being met or unmet: it just is. Unconditional love has no expectations attached to it whatsoever whereas conditional love in fact does. It is those expectations associated with conditional love that manifest as projected needs upon another, and visa versa. When those projected needs associated with one's expectations are met then conditional love is in fact experienced. When they are not then what was once experienced as love can become something quite different.

When Linda asks whether real love can exit in a parallel sort of way with the simultaneous desire for power and control over another the answer is yes relative to conditional love as long as the one that is being controlled is allowing him/herself to be controlled. If not, then that conditional love will turn into something quite different as in hate.

Conditional love is time based: finite. Unconditional love is timeless: infinite.

Conditional love manifests as a function of evolutionary and karmic imperatives and necessities, unconditional love manifests as a function of the universal = timeless natural law of giving to others  in whatever ways that any given Soul has within itself to give even if that giving is simply loving another for who and what they are without any expectation or need to given back to in any way at all.

The inner feeling we all have of 'love' for another when linked with conditional love occurs as a function of the physiology that is set in motion when we interface with another where that other, and visa versa, reflects what we need in our ongoing evolutionary journey through time: the inner psychological and emotional dynamics of any given Soul through time, and the reasons for those specific psychological and emotional dynamics. In essence the feeling of 'love' that is ignited as the beginning of an attraction to another for these reasons IS TO DRAW THE SOULS TOGETHER SO THAT THE EVOLUTIONARY AND KARMIC REASONS that any given Soul has relative to it's own ongoing evolutionary journey CAN BE MET.

This is why JWG wrote his second Pluto book on relationships wherein one of those important chapters is called "So We Meet Again, Eh ?" And as he said it takes more than one life with another who we draw into our lives through conditional love, as defined above, to be worked out. And when it is worked out we then move on to other Souls as our own evolutionary and karmic NEEDS change. This is exactly where John and Yoko find themselves in their own evolutionary journey together as we have been developing in our thread on synastry and composite charts.

And, of course, conditional love can in fact turn into unconditional love for some Souls. Thus, in the context of Souls who have been intimate where that intimacy has been defined by conditional love this will manifest as "I will always love you, but I no longer need you'.

It is also very possible for any two Souls to come together with a combination of unconditional love and conditional love at the same time. When  this occurs such Souls have a simple and natural love for the inherent structure of the Souls of each, and unconditional love that binds them through the journey of time itself. Yet, because each also has their own specific evolutionary and karmic journeys this creates a situation and dynamic wherein they can come together in a series of lives in order to work out and through their individual evolutionary and karmic dynamics together, and also have other lives wherein they must work out their own evolutionary and karmic dynamics with others. Yet, because they started off with this core unconditional love for one another, wanting to give to each other unconditionally, of wanting to be together, desire, through time they will always circle back to one another as their own individual evolutionary journey continues through time. This is what JWG called and defined as Soul Mates.

God Bless, Rad


Linda

Thanks so much Rad for your clarifying answer to my question.

Jason, your list seems to have been confirmed as accurate.  Thanks so much for your input.



Rad

Hi Jason,

I realized after my post that I forgot to validate what you have shared: to me it is all entirely correct . Thanks for sharing this.

God Bless, Rad

Elen

Hi Linda,

Thank you for starting this thread.  As you all know I have not been participating in (or following) the Yoko/John thread, but I am very interested in this topic of love.

Linda, I really appreciated what you wrote here:

Isn't it ironic that Saturn is exalted in Libra - a real TEST of love.
Love is DEEP (Venus exalted in Pisces).
God/Goddess IS love, and created each Soul.
"Love and the supernatural operate on the same frequencies"  [John Lash].



Jason, Hello - and nice to finally have an interchange with you!  Haven't been following the board too closely of late but I have appreciated your posts when I've had the chance to read them... What you wrote here was wonderfully eye-opening for me.  Thank you:

6) Loving feelings and feelings of attraction can arise from desires for separation as well as desires for union, therefore in some instances they will lead to evolution, and in some not.  Loving behavior and genuine acts of love always arise from desires for union and always create evolutionary growth, and are also evidence of that growth.

Rad, Thank you, as always, for your incredibly clarifying post.  I have a question that I can't quite articulate.  Here's the quote that is triggering it for me:

Unconditional love has no expectations attached to it whatsoever whereas conditional love in fact does. It is those expectations associated with conditional love that manifest as projected needs upon another, and visa versa. When those projected needs associated with one's expectations are met then conditional love is in fact experienced. When they are not then what was once experienced as love can become something quite different.

I am wondering how to integrate this obvious truth with the realities of human development and the needs of the child.  So if an infant's or child's basic needs were not met, they will then be projected onto their environment.  Until those unmet needs are recognized as just that, they will be projected and love will be conditional, at least as concerns those needs.  At some point, the Soul will be developed enough to at least be able to recognize what is happening and so to work consciously with the wounding. I am just wondering if it ever reaches a point, for a Soul incarnated as a human being, where conditioning simply no longer affects it, even as an infant/child.  I recall JWG saying that all Souls, as infants and children, are profoundly impacted by their childhood environments, so this is at least part of where my question is coming from.  (Or perhaps advanced Souls always incarnate into infant/childhood [ie, family] conditions in which sufficient conditions are present for proper development.....)

Looking forward to your feedback.

Warmly,
Ellen

Elen

I guess I have another question:

Is conditional love an essential part of the evolutionary process?  Sort of thinking along the lines of what Steve was talking about on the "Dreams" thread - that some people are in 11th grade, some in 2nd, and those in the 11th are right where they need to be just as those in the 2nd are right where they need to be.  So perhaps conditional love is a necessary stepping stone?  It perhaps be said to be what drives the evolution to a higher state as one progressively comes to see the limitations of it.  Would certainly eliminate a lot of judgment (self and other) about the process if this were true.... (at least for me it would...)

Thanks,
Ellen


Rad

#7
Hi Ellen,

"I am just wondering if it ever reaches a point, for a Soul incarnated as a human being, where conditioning simply no longer affects it, even as an infant/child.  I recall JWG saying that all Souls, as infants and children, are profoundly impacted by their childhood environments, so this is at least part of where my question is coming from.  (Or perhaps advanced Souls always incarnate into infant/childhood [ie, family] conditions in which sufficient conditions are present for proper development.....)"

***************

The 'condition's' that any given Soul creates for it's life, in any life, are the conditions that the Soul needs in order to further it's own ongoing evolutionary intentions: whatever those conditions are. And those conditions of course affect the Soul: intentionally so. It is the very 'affect' of whatever those conditions are that serve to advance the Soul's evolutionary intentions. All souls are 'affected' by the conditions of it's lives. Even the most evolved of all Souls start off as children. And the conditions of their births that they have chosen 'affect' them as they would any child. For example the great Yogananda chose to come through a mother who loved him dearly, and he loved here dearly, yet she died when he was very young: four or five years of age. For him at that age this was total trauma. Yet, at that age, he determined within himself, since his earthly mother was no longer present, to find his 'divine mother'. And so at that age he took himself into an attic space in his home and sat there with the determination not to budge from that spot until the Divine Mother revealed herself to him from within. And She did. Yogananda had a 10th House Pluto conjunct Neptune which were both in opposition to his Venus in the 4th.  The perfect symbolism for the 'conditions' of his childhood, and how those conditions affected his own ongoing evolutionary journey.

****************************

"So perhaps conditional love is a necessary stepping stone?  It perhaps be said to be what drives the evolution to a higher state as one progressively comes to see the limitations of it."

**************************

Yes ...............

**********************

God Bless, Rad

Elen

Quote from: Rad on Aug 25, 2011, 10:24 AM
Hi Ellen,

"I am just wondering if it ever reaches a point, for a Soul incarnated as a human being, where conditioning simply no longer affects it, even as an infant/child.  I recall JWG saying that all Souls, as infants and children, are profoundly impacted by their childhood environments, so this is at least part of where my question is coming from.  (Or perhaps advanced Souls always incarnate into infant/childhood [ie, family] conditions in which sufficient conditions are present for proper development.....)"

***************

The 'condition's' that any given Soul creates for it's life, in any life, are the conditions that the Soul needs in order to further it's own ongoing evolutionary intentions: whatever those conditions are. And those conditions of course affect the Soul: intentionally so. It is the very 'affect' of whatever those conditions are that serve to advance the Soul's evolutionary intentions. All souls are 'affected' by the conditions of it's lives. Even the most evolved of all Souls start off as children. And the conditions of their births that they have chosen 'affect' them as they would any child. For example the great Yogananda chose to come through a mother who loved him dearly, and he loved here dearly, yet she died when he was very young: four or five years of age. For him at that age this was total trauma. Yet, at that age, he determined within himself, since his earthly mother was no longer present, to find his 'divine mother'. And so at that age he took himself into an attic space in his home and sat there with the determination not to budge from that spot until the Divine Mother revealed herself to him from within. And She did. Yogananda had a 10th House Pluto conjunct Neptune which were both in opposition to his Venus in the 4th.  The perfect symbolism for the 'conditions' of his childhood, and how those conditions affected his own ongoing evolutionary journey.

****************************

"So perhaps conditional love is a necessary stepping stone?  It perhaps be said to be what drives the evolution to a higher state as one progressively comes to see the limitations of it."

**************************

Yes ...............

**********************

God Bless, Rad

Thanks, Rad.  Really, really helpful.

Warmly,
Ellen

Dhyana

This post and Rad's explanation touched me very deeply. I knew this deeply but had not yet heard it articulated so clearly in the EA language.  The example of Yogananda was just perfect to make the point.

Thank you Rad,and  all for brining this message board such depth and breadth.

I am very grateful.

Sincerely,
Dhyana

Quote from: Ellen on Aug 25, 2011, 02:02 PM
Quote from: Rad on Aug 25, 2011, 10:24 AM
Hi Ellen,

"I am just wondering if it ever reaches a point, for a Soul incarnated as a human being, where conditioning simply no longer affects it, even as an infant/child.  I recall JWG saying that all Souls, as infants and children, are profoundly impacted by their childhood environments, so this is at least part of where my question is coming from.  (Or perhaps advanced Souls always incarnate into infant/childhood [ie, family] conditions in which sufficient conditions are present for proper development.....)"

***************

The 'condition's' that any given Soul creates for it's life, in any life, are the conditions that the Soul needs in order to further it's own ongoing evolutionary intentions: whatever those conditions are. And those conditions of course affect the Soul: intentionally so. It is the very 'affect' of whatever those conditions are that serve to advance the Soul's evolutionary intentions. All souls are 'affected' by the conditions of it's lives. Even the most evolved of all Souls start off as children. And the conditions of their births that they have chosen 'affect' them as they would any child. For example the great Yogananda chose to come through a mother who loved him dearly, and he loved here dearly, yet she died when he was very young: four or five years of age. For him at that age this was total trauma. Yet, at that age, he determined within himself, since his earthly mother was no longer present, to find his 'divine mother'. And so at that age he took himself into an attic space in his home and sat there with the determination not to budge from that spot until the Divine Mother revealed herself to him from within. And She did. Yogananda had a 10th House Pluto conjunct Neptune which were both in opposition to his Venus in the 4th.  The perfect symbolism for the 'conditions' of his childhood, and how those conditions affected his own ongoing evolutionary journey.

****************************

"So perhaps conditional love is a necessary stepping stone?  It perhaps be said to be what drives the evolution to a higher state as one progressively comes to see the limitations of it."

**************************

Yes ...............

**********************

God Bless, Rad

Thanks, Rad.  Really, really helpful.

Warmly,
Ellen