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Author Topic: 4th house Pluto polarity  (Read 4189 times)
Linda
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« on: Jun 05, 2009, 07:01 PM »

Hi Deva, Rad and everyone,

I have some general questions regarding my Pluto natal position (10th) and the Pluto polarity point (4th).  As the Pluto Polarity Point describes the unknown, one can resist or fear this area by desiring to stay in the security of the past, the known, as symbolized by Pluto's natal position.

Natal Pluto
Since my natal Pluto is Rx and at the very end of Leo and also at the very end of the 10th house, I feel I'm finally moving away from this old area.   

20 years ago I worked in communications and media and achieved a national award for directing a radio drama.  I have recently been offered a position to set up a new community radio station in a nearby town (which is very mainstream).  Just a few years ago I would have jumped at the chance to set up a new radio station, because I was so "lost" and would have accepted anything to fill the emptiness, especially if it meant being close to and working with other people in a group environment, and also a place to express my individualised talents.

I can't help feeling that if I were to take up this new position, I would be going backwards, I would be resisting, and reverting back to the security of the past.  In fact, that area does not hold any interest for me, since I am now firmly established in my true spiritual identity, 1st stage spiritual.  Since I wish to work with Pluto's evolutionary forces toward positive change and growth, should the natal Pluto 10th house area be consciously eradicated?  Does Pluto's natal position still operate once the PPP has kicked in?  And if natal Pluto still operates to some degree, does this reflect resistance or tying of loose ends or resolution of yet more karmic issues from the past?

Nodal Axis
Natal Pluto squaring my Nodal Axis (SN 7th;  NN 1st) describes the missed steps, being that of freedom -v- committed relationships, and together with my somewhat limited yet competent work in the community (10th), was the dramatic backdrop behind learning these lessons in emotional self-security (PP 4th), my present soul intention.

Pluto polarity point
When my ex left 6 years ago, I literally cried for 2 years because I was left "alone", was getting on in age, and felt I would not be able to cope on my own.  It wasn't easy getting to my PPP in the 4th house - it has meant a lifetime of difficult lessons around building emotional self-security - together with constant rejection, blocks and shocks from the mainstream world from playing a prominent role in society, together with rejections from partners in failed relationships.  The past rejections don't bother me at all now, since I now realise they were necessary in order to finally catapult me toward the PPP.   

I am feeling a powerful urge to express the PPP in my 4th house now.  Things have REALLY changed - and what I find so interesting is that the very area that held fear and trepidation for me in the past, is now the area where I feel most fulfilled and comfortable. 

I still receive many "rejections" or little shocks from others which reflect the fact that the building of emotional self-security is an ongoing requirement.  Since the PPP is an undeveloped and totally new area, what form does the new development start to take?  How would a typical 4th house PPP area play out?  Why do I feel SO comfortable in this 4th house area already?  There must be further challenges here, but so far it just feels very peaceful.  I love experiencing the bliss of union with nature all around me here where I live in the country.  It's like I'm feeling held within Nature's bosom  Grin  and I would be happy to just continue living a peaceful life out here, not getting so caught up in the outside world.

Could you please comment on my powerful urge to express the PPP and precisely HOW to consciously develop it?

Many thanks for your teaching and guidance!
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Rad
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 06, 2009, 08:21 AM »

Hi Linda,
  Thanks for your posting Linda. Would you mind posting your birth data and/ or birth chart so that we can see the whole pattern ? To answer your question briefly about the PPP: the natal Pluto is never left behind or any way does it become non-operational. The natural evolutionary progression always involves the natural law of the trinity. Thus, the natal position of Pluto operates from birth relative to how the Soul comes into the current life from where it has been, there is a natural polarity point to this, in your case the 4th House, that symbolizes the core Evolutionary intent. As the Soul moves , evolves, towards that intent it then simultaneously EVOLVES the orientation of the natal position of Pluto itself. Thus, the natural law of the trinity. We must remember that any House or Sign is an entire archetype: a full spectrum within itself. As evolution proceeds within any archetype the various orientations within that spectrum are embraced as a result.

 Rad
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Lesley
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 07, 2009, 11:16 AM »

Hi Linda  Smiley

I enjoyed reading your post, I could find some of myself in there.

I would just like to note that, in your evolutionary condition, with that 6th house ruler Mars in Aries in the 6th, the Capricorn placements, and Uranus and Pluto in your 10th, there is an emphasis on 'right work,' or karma yoga, in your Soul's ongoing evolutionary intent for this lifetime. A career in broadcasting is clearly reflected by Uranus conj MC, and the 3rd house stellium...perhaps, when you are ready, you could return to broadcasting or the communication arts (like writing!) with material of a spiritual nature. Uranus conj MC, 6th house cusp at 0 Aries, suggest a totally individualistic and unique form of work which is also a function of your natural self-expression. Pluto at 29 degrees 59 minutes of Leo suggests to me a culmination of the "award" consciousness, and a rapid approach toward using your many skills to be of service (Virgo) to others. With karma yoga, doing the work actually helps the Soul spiritualize further, it is a very beautiful thing. As long as your life increasingly reflects the intrinsic nature of your Soul, your core/natural values, you will not be going backward.

I hope it's okay to have inserted my few cents here! You're such a lovely presence on this message board.

God bless,
Lesley
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Linda
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 07, 2009, 04:57 PM »


Quote
I enjoyed reading your post, I could find some of myself in there.

Thanks Lesley!  I felt it was time to talk more about my life so that I could more easily apply the EA principles to it.  I also look forward to hearing more about other people's lives too.  I'm endeavouring to learn as much about EA as I can, and eventually to purchase the DVD's.

Quote
I would just like to note that, in your evolutionary condition, with that 6th house ruler Mars in Aries in the 6th, the Capricorn placements, and Uranus and Pluto in your 10th, there is an emphasis on 'right work,' or karma yoga, in your Soul's ongoing evolutionary intent for this lifetime.


I'm a little confused as to what the "right work" is for me, as I seem to have some conflict about getting caught up in the mainstream world again.  I'm sure all the various skills I have achieved can be put to good use.  My present direction is astrology - and especially learning about EA at the present time. 

Since Pluto is now transiting my 3rd house, I feel I've come to a brick wall in astrology (it seems shallow) and I would like to go much deeper in my spiritual quest.     

Quote
A career in broadcasting is clearly reflected by Uranus conj MC, and the 3rd house stellium...

I need to give this more time and consideration.  Perhaps next year (Uranus entering Aries, and Saturn entering Libra) the extra cardinal energy will facilitate new initiatives.     

Quote
perhaps, when you are ready, you could return to broadcasting or the communication arts (like writing!) with material of a spiritual nature.


I really appreciate receiving this good suggestion.  If I do take up this position,  astrology and spiritual material can be blended with my broadcasting skills.

Quote
With karma yoga, doing the work actually helps the Soul spiritualize further, it is a very beautiful thing. As long as your life increasingly reflects the intrinsic nature of your Soul, your core/natural values, you will not be going backward.

This is what I am endeavouring to do.

Quote
I hope it's okay to have inserted my few cents here! You're such a lovely presence on this message board.

I'm so appreciative of your comments Lesley!  And thank you for saying that I am a lovely presence here!  Cheesy   I love being part of this forum.
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Rad
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 08, 2009, 12:53 PM »

Linda,


Hi Deva, Rad and everyone,

I have some general questions regarding my Pluto natal position (10th) and the Pluto polarity point (4th).  As the Pluto Polarity Point describes the unknown, one can resist or fear this area by desiring to stay in the security of the past, the known, as symbolized by Pluto's natal position.

Natal Pluto
Since my natal Pluto is Rx and at the very end of Leo and also at the very end of the 10th house, I feel I'm finally moving away from this old area.  

20 years ago I worked in communications and media and achieved a national award for directing a radio drama.  I have recently been offered a position to set up a new community radio station in a nearby town (which is very mainstream).  Just a few years ago I would have jumped at the chance to set up a new radio station, because I was so "lost" and would have accepted anything to fill the emptiness, especially if it meant being close to and working with other people in a group environment, and also a place to express my individualised talents.

I can't help feeling that if I were to take up this new position, I would be going backwards, I would be resisting, and reverting back to the security of the past.  In fact, that area does not hold any interest for me, since I am now firmly established in my true spiritual identity, 1st stage spiritual.  Since I wish to work with Pluto's evolutionary forces toward positive change and growth, should the natal Pluto 10th house area be consciously eradicated?  Does Pluto's natal position still operate once the PPP has kicked in?  And if natal Pluto still operates to some degree, does this reflect resistance or tying of loose ends or resolution of yet more karmic issues from the past?

*************************************************************************

 The resistance, properly so, is not to go back to the 'past' in the way that you had integrated yourself into it. The evolutionary intent, relative to the 4th House Pluto polarity point, is to integrate yourself into the world in general, and the nature of the work specifically, that reflects who you actually are at Soul level. So, for example, take the world of radio broadcasting, radio stations that you have set up before, and now given a new opportunity to do so again, to do that in a brand new way that reflects who you are at a Soul level. What would that mean and/ or look like ? It could be a blend of programs from everything from local / community issues, various kinds of music, educational programs that had the affect of helping people expand their own consciousness by the nature of the programs, and even 'world issues' in which various people who are dedicated to such things could be interviewed. Within the educational programs could be all kinds of things including things like astrology, metaphysics in all it's different forms, self help type programs, and so on. So it's not so much a matter of 'leaving the world behind' relative to the 4th House Pluto, but much more of an issue of HOW YOU ARE IN THE WORLD.
  And that could also mean an entirely new way. And that could mean, given you have Uranus in the 10th, that you could also be in the world as an astrologer, making your living do this. In fact, given that this Uranus inconjuncts your Venus in the 3rd, you could establish yourself in the world by offering a variety of services defined by the helping professions. In other words you are not limited to just one thing. It could also include hypnotherapy for example in which you were working with folks that had unresolved trauma: Uranus. It could include setting up workshops for people in relationships who are struggling with the traditional roles within them as defined by the consensus of the existing patriarchy. And helping these folks to find new ways, natural ways, to be in relationship. Of course this is part of your own ongoing evolutionary journey as reflected in your own nodal axis, and the need to resolve those skipped steps. And so on .......... saying these things to show you there are new ways to be in  the world via a 'career' that reflects who you actually are Linda.


Quote
Nodal Axis
Natal Pluto squaring my Nodal Axis (SN 7th;  NN 1st) describes the missed steps, being that of freedom -v- committed relationships, and together with my somewhat limited yet competent work in the community (10th), was the dramatic backdrop behind learning these lessons in emotional self-security (PP 4th), my present soul intention.

**************************************************************************

  Yes, and there is a need to resolve those skipped steps. It other words it is not enough to finally withdraw from them in order to learn the core lesson of emotional self security and self reliance: the ruler of your Venus is in the 2nd House in Sagittarius. That is the first leg of the journey of course, yet the issue of resolving intimate relationship remains. For your own self-reliance and emotional self security to be realized this requires a commitment to a spiritual path that is not only emotionally based, but one that is provable. As you know God gave you a prove it to me nature: N.Node in Scorpio, Pluto square the Nodal axis. So this means a spiritual teaching that allows for a direct inner communion / relationship with the Godhead within that is proved by the nature of the inner communion itself. Once this is established then the 'need' for external relationships itself is terminated because they simply would not matter anymore. And once that is realized and actualized is exactly when the right kind of external relationship could manifest. And that would then be another whose has already rejected the consensus and gender specific roles within a relationship that are defined by the consensus. And that means another who is rebelling against that because they desire, as you do, to understand and want the natural roles within a relationship to happen. In other words what is natural femininity,  and natural masculinity. It would be a person who has been striving towards their own self-reliance, and inner security, just as you have been doing. This would then correlate to a sea change from ' i need' to be in relationship to 'i want too' without the compulsive need behind that. In other words a person who would say 'i want to be with you because i simply want to be with you' versus ' i want to be with you because I NEED to be with you. In this way you then both realize the FREEDOM to be in relationship simply because you want to without the need dictating that you are in such a relationship. It would mean another who has committed themselves to their own spiritual journey in order to arrive at that Soul place, and it would mean another, because of such an inner commitment, in which you both had the same bottom line for living: a commitment to God/ess that allowed you both to 'interpret' life, phenomena, in the same way. This is critical because of your Moon not only in Cancer, but in the 9th House, and your Saturn in Sagittarius, the ruler of your Venus in Capricorn. It would also mean another who is consciously integrating their own inner anima/animus into an equal state, just as you are. This is the polarity point of your 10th House Pluto to the 4th, and that Pluto of course squaring your Nodes. So another who is doing this in such a way that the roles within the relationship are  not only natural BUT INTERCHANGEABLE depending on circumstances.
  It would mean another who DOES NOT NEED TO BE HEALED, and looking for defacto mama's as a result. It does mean another who has already done all their own emotional/ psychological work before the relationship occurs. And so on.

Quote
Pluto polarity point
When my ex left 6 years ago, I literally cried for 2 years because I was left "alone", was getting on in age, and felt I would not be able to cope on my own.  It wasn't easy getting to my PPP in the 4th house - it has meant a lifetime of difficult lessons around building emotional self-security - together with constant rejection, blocks and shocks from the mainstream world from playing a prominent role in society, together with rejections from partners in failed relationships.  The past rejections don't bother me at all now, since I now realise they were necessary in order to finally catapult me toward the PPP.  

*************************************************************************

 All those rejections and biting 'criticisms' / judgments have manifested to also help you REJECT ALL OF IT. Why ? One of the ongoing lessons of your Soul is to also VALIDATE yourself, who you actually are, from within yourself IN THE FACE OF THESE THINGS. There have been one to many lifetimes in which you have internalized such judgments and criticisms in such a way AS TO BELIEVE THEM. And once you did that you created the inner voice that has said 'there must be something wrong with me'. And once you did that you set in motion lifetimes in which the archetype of  masochism defined your orientation to reality, especially the reality of relationships. So this keeps happening until you finally wave the 'middle finger' in the air, so to speak, and say 'this is who i ACTUALLY AM, take it or leave it'. To validate who you actually are from within yourself.

***************************************************************************

Quote
I am feeling a powerful urge to express the PPP in my 4th house now.  Things have REALLY changed - and what I find so interesting is that the very area that held fear and trepidation for me in the past, is now the area where I feel most fulfilled and comfortable.  

I still receive many "rejections" or little shocks from others which reflect the fact that the building of emotional self-security is an ongoing requirement.  Since the PPP is an undeveloped and totally new area, what form does the new development start to take?  How would a typical 4th house PPP area play out?  

****************************************************************

 see above ..................


Quote
Why do I feel SO comfortable in this 4th house area already?

 Because you have a Moon in Cancer in the 9th House: home in Nature. But also look at those Aquarius energies in your 4th: Chiron, resolution Lilath, Juno. And those are in opposition to your natal Uranus, the ruler of these, in your 10th. This means that prior to this life the very drama that you have lived in this life has already happened before. And, thus, you have already, prior to this life, lived alone and on your own for the SAME REASONS that you have in this one. It's simply an ongoing evolutionary process, journey, drama that has been in operation before this life.

**************************************************************************


Quote
There must be further challenges here, but so far it just feels very peaceful.  I love experiencing the bliss of union with nature all around me here where I live in the country.  It's like I'm feeling held within Nature's bosom  Grin  and I would be happy to just continue living a peaceful life out here, not getting so caught up in the outside world.

Could you please comment on my powerful urge to express the PPP and precisely HOW to consciously develop it?

 Hopefully some of the information above will begin to answer this ................please feel free to ask more Linda.

 Rad
« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2009, 01:46 PM by Steve » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 08, 2009, 03:47 PM »


Quote
One of the ongoing lessons of your Soul is to also VALIDATE yourself, who you actually are, from within yourself IN THE FACE OF THESE THINGS.

There have been one too many lifetimes in which you have internalized such judgments and criticisms in such a way AS TO BELIEVE THEM.

And once you did that you created the inner voice that has said 'there must be something wrong with me'.

And once you did that you set in motion lifetimes in which the archetype of  masochism defined your orientation to reality, especially the reality of relationships.

So this keeps happening until you finally wave the 'middle finger' in the air, so to speak, and say 'this is who i ACTUALLY AM, take it or leave it'. To validate who you actually are from within yourself.



Rad,

I love how you are able to expand the traditional astrological meanings in my chart to incorporate an EA spiritual perspective.  This is exactly what I am seeking to learn. 

So far, your words:  "'this is who i ACTUALLY AM, take it or leave it'. To validate who you actually are from within yourself" - really struck a chord within me.  Right up to the very moment of reading those words I had been feeling "What is wrong with me?" 

Your statement facilitated the release of the old pattern to be replaced with a new psychological quest - and it feels SO positive on a Soul level.  I just got a glimpse into how the astrologer can be of REAL service to others, because you have helped me.  And as you said earlier, it will be important for me to have some proof.

I will formulate more feedback once more has been assimilated.

Thank you!  This is exciting!
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chuck h
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 08, 2009, 04:11 PM »

Hi Linda!

I really enjoy your thought-provoking questions and the deep insights provided in the answers. Though I am new to the forum, you, Rad, Deva and the rest have been so helpful in my understanding of evolutionary astrology that I wanted to jump in, if tentatively, with a little comment that I hope will be useful...

There is something I feel strongly about that I'd like to share with you.  It is my belief that security/ 4th house issues, can be effectively assimilated by embracing wholly the concept of trust. Trust equals the absence of fear-generating thought...equals security.

'Big Trust' can be grown, nurtured and arrived at thru the moment to moment cultivation of 'little trusts'.  Of course this is a common statement, but worth dwelling upon.  I know the benefit of this practice through personal experience...(please understand that what I am about to write does not come from a place of ego, but to illustrate through real-life example).

My work require frequent travel throughout the United States.  Twenty-plus years ago, I decided to practice what I'd learned in non-stop metaphysical studies...the underlying Truth being that we reap literally and precisely what we sow.  The 'experiment' (for that is how it started) was to discontinue the fear-based practice of locking doors.  This included car doors, motel doors (and I have stayed in some pretty 'seedy' areas) and the doors of my home.

Non-trust, or fear, occupies a large part of the thinking process, and when removed, leaves a gaping void.  This void must be filled consciously, before more of the same can rush in.  As it turns out, LOVE is an exceptional filler.  Request Love as a constant companion, adding belief as its natural ally, and the magic begins.

In all these years, not a single item has been stolen… not from my car, motel rooms, or home.  Not once has anyone burst into my room to threaten peace and serenity.  Many might say that I have been ‘lucky’.  No.  When we trust COMPLETELY, there can be no other outcome.

‘Little trust’ opportunities are found everywhere…in relationships, in the workplace, in creative endeavors.  With absolute trust there is no fear (thus no self-creations) of mis-step, betrayal, advantage-taking, power-plays, or deception.  Limitlessness is set free to take it’s, natural, God-ordained (Self/self) course toward peace,security, and the absolute wonderment of bliss when trust is embraced fully.   Little trusts build unerringly on each other as Capricornian influence becomes apparent in its most Spiritual expression…a castle of self-reliant freedom, your fortress where all are welcome without the slightest of judgment.  All because unconditional LOVE housed in belief (trust, faith) trumps fear every time.

It was not easy in the beginning.  I carried lots of valuable possessions, easily visible in my car, including invoices with large checks attached, golf clubs, and portable navigation systems.  Often was the time I would fail, locking my car…but then after several torturous paces, I’d think, ‘’Do I trust?  Do I BELIEVE  in this value system, or don’t I?  Then, I’d turn, go back and unlock.  

I tell you without reservation, Linda, that the act of consciously ‘unlocking’ provided a sense of peace and confidence that cannot be described.  Nowadays, I don’t give it a second thought.  A spiritual muscle exercised allows our Souls to express through us without limit.  Security.

You, with that wonderfully sensitive, intuitive moon in Cancer, have all the energy of the Universe at your disposal…not only to build your own sanctuary, but to teach trust in all your new ventures, primarily by example.   Thus, regardless of which direction you choose to go with that natal Pluto, you will be a Master-Influencer for the masses, the whole…The One.

This is just a simple idea, but with powerful consequences.  I hope it helps.

Happily, chuck

« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2009, 05:03 PM by chuck h » Logged
stephen
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 08, 2009, 04:49 PM »

Non-trust, or fear, occupies a large part of the thinking process, and when removed, leaves a gaping void.  This void must be filled consciously, before more of the same can rush in.  As it turns out, LOVE is an exceptional filler.  Request Love as a constant companion, adding belief as its natural ally, and the magic begins.

In all these years, not a single item has been stolen… not from my car, motel rooms, or home.  Not once has anyone burst into my room to threaten peace and serenity.  Many might say that I have been ‘lucky’.  No.  When we trust COMPLETELY, there can be no other outcome.

‘Little trust’ opportunities are found everywhere…in relationships, in the workplace, in creative endeavors.  With absolute trust there is no fear (thus no self-creations) of mis-step, betrayal, advantage-taking, power-plays, or deception.  Limitlessness is set free to take it’s, natural, God-ordained (Self/self) course toward peace,security, and the absolute wonderment of bliss when trust is embraced fully.   Little trusts build unerringly on each other as Capricornian influence becomes apparent in its most Spiritual expression…a castle of self-reliant freedom, your fortress where all are welcome without the slightest of judgment.  All because unconditional LOVE housed in belief (trust, faith) trumps fear every time.

Chuck,

Thank you very much for that insight into Trust.
It really hit the spot and resonated with me.

Stephen
« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2009, 07:07 PM by stephen » Logged
mountainheather
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 09, 2009, 12:04 PM »

Hi all, I've been enjoying reading these posts! I have ppp in 4th in pisces squared the the nodes too.  I thought I read in Jeffrey and Deva's books that the bottom line of this would be the node that pluto conjuncted last and its ruler, and the ppp would be less emphasized.  Could I get some clarification?
With regards to my experience of the 4th house (also saturn and chiron opp pluto) I am learning that my emotional landscape is altogether a different medium of expression than my thoughts, although the two can work together I am learning to listen and reveal my own feelings to myself first  and not expect to express them in the same way to the world out there, unless I decide it is safe to do so. For me this is almost impossible to talk about and must be directly experienced. Thank you all for the educational forum here! Heather
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Steve
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 09, 2009, 12:38 PM »

I thought I read in Jeffrey and Deva's books that the bottom line of this would be the node that pluto conjuncted last and its ruler, and the ppp would be less emphasized.  Could I get some clarification?

Hi Heather

To clarify a bit, planets squaring the nodes are called skipped steps, which means the person has been flipping back and forth between the south and north nodes without fully developing either.  When it's Pluto squaring the nodes, it means the Soul itself is directly doing this flipping. In essence its gotten stuck in an m.o. that it unconsciously gravitates to at stressful points in the life, and it activates the flipping behavior to try to cope with the situation - it's a learned strategy.  The problem is, the underlying issues can only be resolved when the work at one of the nodes is carried through to completion, rather than flipping to the other one at key stress points.

The node that Pluto conjuncted last is called the resolution node.  That is the one that needs to be developed/resolved, to break the flipping pattern.

The PPP is just as important with Pluto squaring the nodes as in any other configuration.   Perhaps you are mentally mixing with that condition the one exception to the PPP rule. The exception is that when Pluto conjuncts the North Node natally, there is no PPP.  Other than that it applies in all cases.

Determining which node last conjuncted Pluto is a bit confusing because of the retrograde motion of the nodes.  An EA astrologer came up with this method to quickly determine the resolution node.  Picture yourself standing on the outer rim of the chart, facing the planet that squares the nodes (Pluto in this case).  Point to the node on the left - that is the resolution node. 

Sometimes the resolution node is the South Node, which on the surface doesn't make much sense - why would I need to develop the past habitual patterns?  The meaning is, they need to be developed IN A NEW WAY. 

Developing the resolution node leads to untieing the knots that are the root basis of the skipping pattern in the first place.  As the new patterns develop, the Soul can break free from the habitual unconscious skipping pattern.
Steve
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chuck h
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 09, 2009, 11:05 PM »

Chuck,

'Thank you very much for that insight into Trust.
It really hit the spot and resonated with me.'

Stephen



Thank you, Stephen!

Being new here, and a little nervous about adding in, your response meant a lot to me.

chuck
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stephen
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 10, 2009, 12:30 PM »

Thank you, Stephen!
Being new here, and a little nervous about adding in, your response meant a lot to me.
chuck

Chuck,
You are very welcome.

Blessings,
Stephen

(P.S. Your postings have all brought value to this site!!  Keep posting!!)
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2009, 07:39 PM by stephen » Logged
mountainheather
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 10, 2009, 12:44 PM »

Hi Steve,
Thank you for your reply and clarification.  Jeffrey says in vol.1 p.22 that the polarity point of pluto applies and "must be activated to begin the integration and resolution of this evolutionary condition" and then he says if pluto applies to the north node (which it does in my case)  "then the polarity point of pluto and the south node with its planetary ruler must be integrated throught the north node, with its ruler facilitaing the process."  I think this is how I started to focus less on the polarity point of pluto and started to send my thoughts and feelers to my north node and its ruler.

What does this mean to activate the polarity point of pluto and then integrate it through the north node...I want to understand what this feels like not just what it sounds like to say it, or to intellectually feed off it. This is fun, thanks for this forum! Heather
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Linda
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 10, 2009, 05:13 PM »

Mountainheather:

Your quote:  What does this mean to activate the polarity point of pluto and then integrate it through the north node...I want to understand what this feels like not just what it sounds like to say it, or to intellectually feed off it.

Welcome to the EA forum!  I would be interested to know how it feels also.  I look forward to someone more experienced answering your question Heather.  Grin   


I have another question: 

Is the Ruler of the Polarity Point used in the Pluto dynamic? 

Example:  My Pluto Leo 10th - Polarity Point Aquarius 4th. 
The ruler of Aquarius PP, Uranus, is in Leo 10th (conj MC).

Also, the Ruler of my Scorpio North Node is Pluto in Leo 10th.

Am I being redirected back to natal Pluto 10th because of the above 2 Rulerships?  Do I have more work to do in the world?
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Steve
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 11, 2009, 11:15 AM »

Hi Steve,
Thank you for your reply and clarification.  Jeffrey says in vol.1 p.22 that the polarity point of Pluto applies and "must be activated to begin the integration and resolution of this evolutionary condition" and then he says if Pluto applies to the north node (which it does in my case)  "then the polarity point of Pluto and the south node with its planetary ruler must be integrated through the north node, with its ruler facilitating the process."  I think this is how I started to focus less on the polarity point of Pluto and started to send my thoughts and feelers to my north node and its ruler.

What does this mean to activate the polarity point of Pluto and then integrate it through the north node...I want to understand what this feels like not just what it sounds like to say it, or to intellectually feed off it. This is fun, thanks for this forum! Heather

Hi Heather
  In all charts (except Pluto conjunct NN) the intent is to activate the polarity point of Pluto.  When Pluto (and thus its polarity point) is squaring the nodes, the question becomes how does one resolve the skipping - which node has to be worked on.  When the NN is the resolution node ("applying to"), the effort needs to go to developing the NN. 
  "The ruler facilitating the process" applies to all nodes in all charts, not just this condition.  Another way I describe ruler facilitating the process is "actualizing itself through".  In other words, these are like layers.  Pluto is the deepest layer.  The nodes the next deepest layer.  The rulers of the nodes a layer above that.  Most of us are more conscious of what is on the surface than what lies beneath it.  So we act in certain ways habitually.  This is going to relate at the top to the ruler, which is actualizing the intentions of the underlying node, based on the planet, sign, house the ruler is located in.
  Similarly, the node is actualizing the intentions of the underlying Pluto (for the South Node), or PPP (North Node).  Pluto, or PPP, is always the baseline.  The nodes describe how Pluto has been carrying out (actualizing) its desire nature, the ruler how the patterns inherent in the nodes have been actualized.

The gist of it is, you can't really separate (in your example) the PPP, the NN, the NN ruler - they are different layers or levels of the exact same thing, even though we may not consciously experience it that way.  When you are focusing on the NN, you ARE affecting and actualizing the intents of the PPP.  To me, the idea of the NN ruler is, if you focus your attempts at developing the NN in the chart area represented by the NN ruler by house, sign, planet (and aspects it makes to other planets by house and sign), you are concentrating/maximizing your efforts.   And yet, since this is the underlying evolutionary intent in the first place, that naturally happens anyway.

On a practical level, my experience has been that the first step is to become conscious of one's evolutionary signature - to understand the signatures of the past, and the evolutionary intentions for this lifetime.  In your case the Pluto square nodes is a significant part of that. 
  Then we have to ACCEPT this signature - beyond understanding it intellectually, to emotionally embrace it.  The point is, quite often there are parts of this we don't like, or wish would be other than they are  - don't want to embrace, don't even want to admit to.   The process starts speeding up as we can accept "Here is where I am, today, and here is where I'm intended to be heading".  Then one makes an inner choice, decision, to cooperate with this unfolding process.  Knowing that at times it's not going to feel comfortable, its not going to feel like what we want to do or where we want to go - that is part of the process, comes with the territory.  We have to accept that also.
  When you have a skipped steps pattern with Pluto, when you have been consciously working on moving forward i.e. developing the NN, the tendency at stress points is going to be to want to dive back to the safety and known nature of the South Node.  You have to become conscious of that tendency, to see how it plays out in your outer reality, to look at your life and see how you have actualized that tendency.  There is where you look to the rulers.  Typically what triggers skipping is having "bitten off more than you can chew", making a really big leap "piece of cake, I can handle this", and finding overwhelm.  Getting afraid or overloaded with the movement towards the NN.  Then finding all sorts of reasons why its OK to go back to the known, the past, the familiar.
  The point is, just knowing that you do this does not in itself resolve it.  But its the beginning of resolving it - you become aware of, conscious of, what has always been going on that you did not realize previously was a pattern, a mode of behavior.
  The first step in changing a behavior is becoming aware you are in it - because then when you find yourself going into that pattern again, you can say "wait, here I am in this pattern again" and make a different choice.  It literally is changing an old habit.  Like changing any habit, it takes time, effort, determination.  These habits go straight to the Soul, so they are even more entrenched.  But the point is YOU CAN CHANGE THEM, you are not trapped, no matter how deep they appear to be.  Desire is the root determinant - you make up your mind you are going to change.  Even when you catch yourself making the same choice in a situation where you could have made a new choice, you do not get down or down on yourself, you simply reaffirm that you are in the process of changing a deep pattern, and you keep at it.  Step by step, inch by inch.  Through determination you move forward.  Because its aligned to the evolutionary intentions, there are a lot of unseen forces at work to assist your moving in these directions.
  Another issue is, at times you simply are going to feel overwhelmed with change, and unable to move forward at that moment.  This too is part of the process.  Especially with 10th house Pluto, there needs to be an honoring of your emotional states, and their limitations.  You can not force your way through the process, can not have complete control over it.  It takes on a life of its own, over time, becomes the basis of new habits, a new way of living and of looking at life.   There are moments, times, when you NEED to go back to the safety of the known, if only for a short while, just to keep yourself sane.  This is OK and necessary - just do it consciously - "I need to do this right now" and remain aware when it is time to get back to moving forward again.

 In a sense this process is like growing a new baby in your womb (4th house PPP) that gradually takes on a life of its own.  In this case that new baby will gradually replace your old existing sense of who you are altogether.  It will integrate and incorporate these new perspectives, ways, into the totality of your own self-image (4th house).  Words like organic, holistic, inclusive - it is a natural process that gradually engulfs you.  Through this process the intentions of the PPP, the NN, the NN ruler simply unfold, because at the baseline you have inwardly committed to yourself to the evolutionary intentions.   
  You start the process by discerning what the chart symbols mean, what areas of life they reference, but as you increasingly move into that process as a way of life, it just unfolds by itself.  This all starts by embracing the process in the first place and saying "yes" to it.  The rest just happens.

I perhaps strayed off some questions you were asking, so feel free to ask further.
Steve
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