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Author Topic: Does anyone here dream in astrology  (Read 1603 times)
Michael
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« on: Aug 20, 2011, 06:28 PM »

Hello everyone: Looking so forward to Novembers conference! And really enjoyed meeting Kristin at Norwac this year.  If this is an appropriate question I was wondering if any one dreams in astrological symbolism. Michael
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Linda
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 20, 2011, 06:56 PM »

Hi Michael,

What an interesting question!

When I dreamed about going down some steps into a dark cellar or another world  - I know, on waking, that this means Pluto going down into the underworld, and transforming some old pattern.

When I fly in a dream - I know, on waking, that this symbolizes Uranus or Neptune - escape.  

I've dreamed of dolphins coming up out of the sea, suspended in the air, and a mandala around them.

Another AMAZING dream was:  I was in prison.  2 very wise beings from another world (not earth) unlocked the cell, freeing me.  We stood in the corridor between the cells on either side.  I was free.  The 2 beings started instructing me with very deep wisdom which, on waking, I could not remember, but I know this information is still stored within my unconscious.  This particular dream, to me, represented URANUS/NEPTUNE:  liberation from Saturn, sudden insights, and sacred knowledge.

Just last night in a half-dream state I felt a dimensional shift, like I could put my arm through what appeared to be solid.  I understood the adage:  "creation of an egocentric structure for evolutionary purposes!" because that is exactly what I perceived or intuited:  an illusion which appeared to be "real."

I FEEL the dream experience, not necessarily the words or the concepts of astrology.  In a dream, for example, I don't have a word coming up saying "This is Libra - or this is Uranus."  I dream the ACTUALITY of those astrological energies, but not the classification in words of those energies.

Is this what you meant?  Do you dream in astrological symbolism?  If so, want to share it?

Okay, I'd better get back to work on my EA assignment.  This topic sounds so interesting - thanks so much for bring this up Michael.....and of course welcome to the EA messageboard!

Cheers,
Linda
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Kristin
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 20, 2011, 07:01 PM »

Hey Michael,

Great to see you here....not sure if you know this story but JWG dreamed the entire Pluto material in Sanskrit. This entire body of work that so many Souls are benefiting from was literally downloading to him through dream via Sri Yukteswar.

Also another thing he used to recommend to students learning the material, is to before sleep if they wanted to learn about, say Venus, then to ask God to teach them through dream about Venus...and it is important to be persistent in this request, to KEEP ASKING until it happens..because it will.

Are you dreaming in astrology?

Peace,
Kristin
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011, 07:11 PM by Kristin » Logged
cat777
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 20, 2011, 07:43 PM »

Synchroncity.  It just so happens that I woke up this am feeling like I had been dreaming about archetypes.  Not a visual type dream, but rather a conversation as though someone was discussing them with me.   Explaining them to me. Something like that.  

As far as symbolic visual dreams go, I remember having a dream with nuclear bombs long ago while experiencing a Pluto transit.  I wrote it all out and for some reason mailed it off to American Astrology Magazine and they published it!  I didn't mean it for publication.  I was just releasing it from myself and that magazine seemed like a good target to vent to.  (This was back before the internet was the way it is now).  

BTW - the reason I am here is because I started studying EA back in the 90's.  Somehow I got distracted by life and drifted away from it.  In the past year I have been undergoing these heavy duty transits.  Last year Saturn in Libra took away a major part of my life.  This year other aspects of my life are under in need of change.  These Sun sign horoscopes that a friend always sends me kept saying "think back to what you were doing 14 years ago" in regard to what I should be doing now.  The answer eluded me for quite awhile.  Then one day I picked Pluto Vol I off my bookshelf and found a receipt for the correspondence course in the book.  Looking at the date, I counted backwards on my fingers.  14 years ago I was studying EA!!!!  

« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011, 08:00 PM by cat777 » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 20, 2011, 09:37 PM »

Interesting thread! Everyones responses are wonder-full to read!

Hi Michael.
As I fall off to sleep often, I have the chart on my mind that I am working on, and then as I drift into sleep the chart I am working on seems to come with me sometimes, and the person whose chart it is. Often as I am in that state right before I actually fall into deep sleep I can feel my intuition honing in on the chart and the person ...and I get certain intuitive hits about what the chart is saying or I see something about the person's life.... but this usually happens just before or as I drift into sleep. I don't know about when I am in the deeper sleep states if I dream about astrology (If I'm correctly understanding what you mean... I'm not sure??? ), but I do (in the way I stated here) upon falling asleep and  Oh, also sometimes upon awakening from sleep too.. before I am all wide awake and sit up.

What kind of way does it occurr for you? I would love to hear about it.

Nice to see you here.

Lovingly,
Dhyana
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011, 09:54 PM by Dhyana » Logged
Dhyana
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 20, 2011, 09:56 PM »

PS. And for some reason, I also seem to get more intuitive flashes about someones chart, or my own. or astrology in general, when I am driving my car  Undecided

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Michael
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 20, 2011, 10:22 PM »

Facinating answers. Cellars, prisons, flight... Bombs!!!
Re: JWG, I had heard that and I still pine about "almost" going to see him that first time he came to Vancouver Can. I've seen a bit of old Norwac video of him and learned almost as much from the style of his personality as from the content of the books... but everything has a plan....

I dream in astrology terms all the time. In much the same way Cat and Linda have described. The first one many years ago was 2 red and black tug boats in a dark and stormy night... I knew instantly these where my two planets in Scorpio, Venus and Neptune, the same night a piece of meat frying in a big grey wok was clearly ... Mars in Cancer.  

Several years ago it began in earnest.  Whenever I dream of someone I know the dream is best interpreted by considering the persons sun sign. The theme of their "sign" will usually be echoed somewhere else in the dream, that's how I first became aware of it. (It just now occured to me perhaps the 'message' is actually from the planets archetype)  

The crossing over into my unconscience of the persons sign really proved to me how these archetypes are readily understood and utilized by that part of us, the much larger processor beneath, around, above the island of waking reality.

Dhyana, I do the same thing, and often feel the persons energy.

Thank you all so much for the welcome...JWG has certainly lead us into some fertile, multidimensional terrain.  His life and the contribution of his willing spirit and mind have inspired me in so much growth, usefulness and self awareness.

Michael
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Steve
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 21, 2011, 02:18 PM »

Hi Michael

I'm not directly addressing your question but adding a thing or two to the topic.  When I first started taking astrology seriously I had the good fortune to know a few long time astrologers and would at times get to spend some time with them.  What I recognized is they THINK in astrology - they had so deeply integrated astrological archetypes it (positively) affected the way they perceived reality.  I could see that process in action in them.  And I knew my brain didn't work that way.

The day came when I realized things had shifted in me and I could truthfully say I now thought in astrology. 

I experienced learning astrology in this way like learning a new language. Bi-lingual people have told me they sometimes dream in either language.  Every language contains concepts and viewpoints unique to it.  The language we grow up speaking very much conditions the person we grow up to be.  All languages are missing some concepts that are inherent to the nature of being a human being.   Thus most native speakers do not develop the parts of self those missing language concepts reflect, because they are missing from that language's world view - thus create conditioning.  (The deeper EA question here is "why did the Soul choose to grow up learning this or that primary language?")

Astrology basically is a symbolic language.  English is primarily a literal language.  The language of Astrology can express a deep range of concepts in just a few words.  I can communicate those concepts to those who speak that language very succinctly. English speakers who don't "speak astrology" require paragraphs of words to express the same concepts. 

The reason I'm saying this is because to me dreaming in astrology is just a deeper level of thinking in astrology.  Just as it takes time to start thinking in astrology, it may take even more time to start dreaming in astrology.  The conscious perceptions have to permeate the dream state for the dreams to come through that filter.

I don't know what my answer is to your question about dreaming in astrology is.  I definitely think in astrology.  I wouldn't say at this point my dreams are clearly in astrology.

In terms of what you said
Quote
The crossing over into my unconscience of the persons sign really proved to me how these archetypes are readily understood and utilized by that part of us, the much larger processor beneath, around, above the island of waking reality.

to me those archetypes are not so much "utilized by that part of us" - their SOURCE is "that part of us" - that part of us reflects actual reality.  Our outer reality is so out of synch with actual reality that we require symbolic systems/languages like astrology to help our conscious minds understand and integrate the natural archetypes (realities).  The same is true of systems like Tarot.   I think starting to dream in astrology would demonstrate a deep integration between the conscious and subconscious has been/is taking place.  That would be the point of our individual healing process, and of using astrology to facilitate it.
Steve
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Elen
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 21, 2011, 05:35 PM »

Michael, Everyone,  Great thread.

Steve, so cool you brought up astrology as a second language.  I was just browsing the internet today and some foreign language sites came up and for a moment I felt a little regret that I didn't know the language - that I wasn't willing to put in the effort to really learn a second language.  And then I realized that that is because I put my effort into learning astrology (and, as I go along, I realize my path is also to learn other symbolic languages - like homeopathy, like the chakra system, like the language of emotions - the yoga of emotions), and I finally felt ok with myself around this one.  I DO know a second language.  Not a master, but reasonably fluent - can find my way around.  And totally looking forward to further development and enjoying the process.

As for do I dream in astrology, some time ago I was explaining a dream I had to someone and my understanding of it, and she was like, wow, I wish my dreams could be that insightful or clarifying or whatever.  And I thought about that and I realized that the only reason my dream was any more insightful than anyone else's was because I had the language of astrology to run it through.  Nothing particularly special about my dreams.  Just have a great filter with which to work with them.  I also think the universe is an amazing place, and when you learn a system or a language or whatever, it begins to speak to you through that language/system/etc.  And the deeper you go into the system, the deeper the meaning that is revealed.

See you all at the conference.  For those who can't be there, I will truly miss the opportunity to meet you, and it will be our loss that you will not be there.

Warm wishes,
Ellen
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Michael
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 22, 2011, 10:33 PM »

Thank you Steve, given that I have a Neptune skipped step (In a grand trine) & a Pisces Moon your comment makes me feel like some progress is being made.   

  Both of you are so in tune on the language paradigm.  That concept has guided me foryears.

(kristen, Trying what you said, not so difficult really.  Venus... Lots of pleasant thoughts and sun sets... Even pirates... (must be the 5th Scorpio.). 

The "mind" or whatever it is  called is really quite open to our intention.
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Kristin
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 23, 2011, 09:16 AM »

Michael etal..

One thing I wanted to add re: JWG and dreaming...I have had several clients over the years share with me that he shows up to them in dream either to help them spiritually or with some trauma as a sort of guide. I have also heard that he comes to teach EA, sometimes it is so literal at times even a chalkboard is present.

Now that would be cool with your Neptune skipped step, I know you missed him in Vancouver when you had the chance but maybe he will show up in the ethers and teach you there.. Smiley You never know..

I also remember him saying that his Soul would be used in the night by God to assist others..his 4th house Pisces Moon trines Jupiter in the 12th in Scorpio, Soul teacher through dreams....His Pisces Moon also trines his Scorpio Ascendant/ Venus/Mercury in Scorpio in the 1st..

Peace,
Kristin
« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2011, 10:00 AM by Kristin » Logged
cat777
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 23, 2011, 03:37 PM »

Interesting about JWG coming to people in their dreams and sometimes even teaching EA.  I'm thinking this might happen with "day dreams" as well.  I have been struggling with this huge problem in regard to interpreting consensus stage charts.  Although I understand the consensus concept, I come up empty when trying to figure out what they think, feel, desire etc.  Let's take the 9th House for example.  Put something there and I automatically start on a high level trying to tie it all into spiritual beliefs of whatever sort.  Obviously, not everyone is conscious of those.  When I try to bring it down to a consensus stage level I just go blank.  It shouldn't be that hard, right?

Ok, so driving home from work I was sort of talking to JWG in my mind.  Trying to tune into how he would help me with this. Than I just got this huge influx of intuitive information.  All of a sudden I got it.  Hard to explain but a real moment for sure.  Pretty profound.

Ok, taking this a bit further, I was wondering if the majority of EA astrologers/students are individuated state or higher.  I just can't imagine that a consensus astrologer would be able to interprete charts for anyone other than consensus clients.  How could they?  And it doesn't seem to me that EA astrology is something a consensus astrologer would even be attracted to in the first place as its not traditional astrology which is what?  Defined by the consensus of astrologers!  This is not to be judgemental.  It just seems to be the way it must be.  Huh?

In any case, I think its possible to tune into JWG - day or night.   
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Steve
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 23, 2011, 04:36 PM »

Hi Catt


Ok, so driving home from work I was sort of talking to JWG in my mind.  Trying to tune into how he would help me with this. Than I just got this huge influx of intuitive information.  All of a sudden I got it.  Hard to explain but a real moment for sure.  Pretty profound.

Ok, taking this a bit further, I was wondering if the majority of EA astrologers/students are individuated state or higher.  I just can't imagine that a consensus astrologer would be able to interprete charts for anyone other than consensus clients.  How could they?  And it doesn't seem to me that EA astrology is something a consensus astrologer would even be attracted to in the first place as its not traditional astrology which is what?  Defined by the consensus of astrologers!  This is not to be judgemental.  It just seems to be the way it must be.  Huh?

In any case, I think its possible to tune into JWG - day or night.  

I'd say its possible to tune into ANY Soul day or night.  The issue is how aware are we, and how aware are the Souls we are trying to tune into?  More evolved Souls are more consciously aware of the multi-levels we all operate on and thus you can connect with much deeper levels within them.  The inherent nature of Souls we think of as advanced is to give and serve.  Thus they are subconsciously listening all the time for Souls asking them for help, and respond in kind, whether consciously or subconsciously.  That is simply their nature - the dual desire nature EA talks about, that has been so honed in such Souls that the majority of the separating desires are resolved, done, gone.  Thus they simply want to do what God itself asks of their Souls, to work through those Souls.  Its also so that in some cases we are somewhat tuning into such Souls, but also we can project the deeper unconscious places within us outward and symbolically give them form of someone we identify with as advanced.  In those cases it can be our own Soul answering its own questions, appearing to come through the vehicle of another.  But its also true those Souls do respond to the yearnings and requests of others, so both principles play out.

As to what you said about consensus charts, one of the main reason many of the EA School homework charts are of consensus people is for exactly that reason, to make EA students realize their tendency is to project their own reality, whether individuated or spiritual state, onto others, as if everyone was in those places.  This is closely tied to what's been taught about the masochist who always sees the potential in others.  The majority of people who sincerely want to serve and grow feel a deep inadequacy within in many ways.  The idea that relative to awareness states on earth that they are in a small percentage of humans, no matter how troubled their lives may seem to them, is hard to accept.  We don't want to see it that way.  And yet, it is true.  This doesn't make those people special.  Its simply what is - you are where you are, just as the consensus Soul is where it is.  There's no issue of better or worse.

Our function as EA astrologers is to validate the reality of clients WHERE THEY ARE, not where we perceive they have the potential to be, and not to confuse the two.  To look at your example of a 9th house consensus person, you might have a person who religiously goes to some church all the time that they passionately believe has the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  That is where 9th house issues like seeing part of the truth and believing its the whole truth, and a deep need to convince and convert others to their way of seeing things, really play out.  

Its important to not equate Consensus with lesser or bad.  The way I describe this to people is, in the town /city where you live, at any time there are students in the 2nd grade and in the 11th grade.  The 11th grade isn't better than the 2nd grade.  Its simply the appropriate place for students who are in the 11th grade, and the 2nd grade is the appropriate place for students in the 2nd grade.  If I am in the 11th grade it means at one point I was in the 2nd grade.  So to relate to 2nd graders I can find the space in me that was once in the 2nd grade, what that felt like, how I perceived things, and try to relate to 2nd graders from my own 2nd grade past.

I should also say that there are many many very sincere Souls within the consensus state.  You might say they are not yet very self-aware.  But they by nature want to share and serve.  They just have allowed themselves to accept conditioned beliefs about the way things are, and what is right and wrong that we wouldn't accept.  But they are sincere within that world view.  And of course there are also many who are not sincere or oriented to giving.

In terms of evolutionary state of people seeking to learn EA or have a reading with an EA astrologer, by definition very few consensus state people will be looking for that experience.  The whole essence of EA is to blow up the limited perceptions that are the hallmark of being in consensus.   They would tend to condemn or reject EA actually, because it is outside the realm of socially acceptable belief systems.  It is when Souls start nearing the crossover point into 1st stage Indiv they might start asking the questions about "is this all there is?".  Then there might be glimpses of interest in EA, not that its going to be accepted yet, but there might be some listening at that point.  Its people in 1st stage indiv and beyond that will respond to EA because EA is about what is natural and real, while consensus is the acceptance of conditioned, distorted beliefs and values.  Starting at 1st stage indiv the desire nature begins to turn. The intent to discover what is real begins to be taken seriously.  It is still a very long journey, but at that point we can help people who appear in receptive states, wanting to know more.  EA is about how life actually works, vs the consensus beliefs people have been programmed with.  Thus it represents a deconditioning, which in the long run is the main point of the individuated state, to go through that deconditioning process over a (possibly long) series of lifetimes.  As we become increasingly deconditioned, what remains is increasingly real, the way life (and our Souls) actually are vs. distorted beliefs about things that we have come to accept.  The growth process is purging what is distorted so what remains is real, is inherent.
« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2011, 04:46 PM by Steve » Logged

cat777
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 23, 2011, 05:25 PM »

Hi Steve,

I love your perspective (here and in other posts I've read here and there).  I really like your analogy about 2nd grade/11th grade as that is really it, isn't it?  My problem with the consensus is I just don't relate to it - likely because I don't remember it any better than I remember being in 2nd grade in this life  :-)  I didn't want to come across as judgemental or like I look down on the consensus, and I don't think you took it that way, its just that I draw such a blank there.  You know, sometimes when I talk to people who are probably consensus, I tend to always be asking "Haven't you ever wondered about that?"  I usually get blank stares that are saying "Why would anybody?"  :-)

Ok, so just keep doing the homework  :-)

You bring up so many good points about so many things.  In regard to tuning into JWG, yes, was it JWG or my own unconscious?  Or maybe both as we are both part of the same collective consciousness, right?  And does it matter?  Only in the sense that sometimes it helps to focus on a symbol that is not "self" in order to get in touch with "self."  Maybe?  Of course if this is what it takes, then of course we will focus on someone we are familiar with.  I could have easily done the same with you I think.  But, it was JWG because I can visualize and hear him and recognize the thoughts as his - even if they are really mine, because I got them from him in the first place.  They were just unconscious.  I think the same holds true for those who JWG visits in their dreams.  It might be JWG.  Or it might be a part of oneself symbolized as JWG - or both. 

All that said, thank you so much for taking the time to respond.  Great stuff to think about.


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Elen
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 23, 2011, 06:33 PM »



As to what you said about consensus charts, one of the main reason many of the EA School homework charts are of consensus people is for exactly that reason, to make EA students realize their tendency is to project their own reality, whether individuated or spiritual state, onto others, as if everyone was in those places.  This is closely tied to what's been taught about the masochist who always sees the potential in others.  The majority of people who sincerely want to serve and grow feel a deep inadequacy within in many ways.  The idea that relative to awareness states on earth that they are in a small percentage of humans, no matter how troubled their lives may seem to them, is hard to accept.  We don't want to see it that way.  And yet, it is true.  This doesn't make those people special.  Its simply what is - you are where you are, just as the consensus Soul is where it is.  There's no issue of better or worse.

Hi Steve,  Great comments, as always.  Lots of illusions blowing up in my face right now and just struck me what you said here.  It is painful for ALL involved when those projections are insisted upon.  So important to see people for where they really are.  A nurse I used to work with, whenever I would go off about this family member or that, would always say, but maybe they just don't have the ability.  And I would be like, you've got to be kidding me.  But she really GOT it.  She understood that the vast majority of people are doing the best they are able.  She used to really piss me off.  Now we are good friends and she is a wonderful informal counselor/advisor.


Its important to not equate Consensus with lesser or bad.  The way I describe this to people is, in the town /city where you live, at any time there are students in the 2nd grade and in the 11th grade.  The 11th grade isn't better than the 2nd grade.  Its simply the appropriate place for students who are in the 11th grade, and the 2nd grade is the appropriate place for students in the 2nd grade.  If I am in the 11th grade it means at one point I was in the 2nd grade.  So to relate to 2nd graders I can find the space in me that was once in the 2nd grade, what that felt like, how I perceived things, and try to relate to 2nd graders from my own 2nd grade past.

This is really interesting to me.  I've always used the analogy of an infant who, though will most likely grow into a toddler and adult who will walk, as an infant really needs to crawl.  To ask or expect the infant to walk is really doing her/him a disservice as there are basic developmental things (of which I'm sure others with children are more fully aware!) that have to happen at this stage.  And also, the walking will happen spontaneously of its own when the necessary development has been reached.  Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that it was very interesting to me onetime when I was talking with someone about the evolutionary stages.  She didn't feel she could accept that evolution takes time.  I explained it, in terms of how it made sense to me, and how it seemed really important to really allow oneself to be where one is and do the development that is there, in terms of the infant analogy.  And her response was to run through the possibility that perhaps it does not have to take that long - that perhaps the infant can move through its developmental processes at an accelerated rate.  Who knows, maybe the infant can.  But, having skipped steps myself, and having arrived at a place of acceptance of the need to simply allow the process to happen and be there with/for it where it is - and a DESIRE to allow it to happen at its own natural rate - I could see how I might have landed myself in this skipped step predicament.  Anyway, just a really interesting point you make .





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